Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 Hannah, I'm also married to a meat-eater. We had our first anniversary last month, but I've only been strictly vegan for a few months, since I discovered that I have an egg/dairy intolerance. Sometimes it's an issue, like when we want to eat out (I can't find anything to eat at his favorite restaurants) or trying to make meals that we can share (he's wary of 'strange' new foods), but most of the time it doesn't matter. He's learning to like some of my meals, and I'm getting used to eating together but eating different things. It can work out as long as neither side gets caught up in insisting that their way is the way for everyone. I just try to stay relaxed. - Muffy - Trusty, Hannah Ian McDonald ; Thursday, July 11, 2002 7:47 AM RE: Marrying meaties >>Well, that *is* a difference. Unless the two of you are an exception tothe generalisations, he thinks you are going to hell, and you think hecauses hell for animals.>>Yup, that's a difference.Yes, we do have lots of differences. As far as the religion thing goes, I really don't think he thinks I'm going to hell. We both agreed early on that as long as we are both happy and it isn't hurting anyone, our own spirtual beliefs are our own business. In this case we are both very apathetic (sp??) but it works.As far as eating meat goes, I was only a ovo-lacto vegetarian when I met him, and more for enviornmental reasons (although, Ive always loved animals). When it finally dawned on me how much animal rights did mean to me, I became vegan and doing much more activist work. This was about four years after we started dating. So as far as the dynamics of the relationship go, I was the one who changed, not him.We have talked about why I am vegan now, as we talked about why I was vegetarian. I wanted him to know why it means so much to me, and he wanted to understand. I can't change him, and I don't try to. If he changes it is because he wants to, not because I want him to. That is the only lasting change anyway.He does admit that he thinks my lifestyle choices are better for health, enviornmental and compassion reasons, but he just can't make the change yet. Lots of people are that way. I was thirteen when I became vegetarian, but 23 when I went vegan. And that's pretty young. Lots of people are much older before they go vegetarain. I'm sure many on this list are in thier 30's or over and just starting to be veg.My point is that it is a hard transition to make in this culture. I know I was raised to think of meat as beef and pork not dead cow and pig. I pulled a "wishbone" or two at Thanksgiving and it sickens me now, but I didn't think twice about it as a child.Yes, I see why some want to be with other vegans, and that is fine if that is critria for a mate. But I perosnally don't want to cut myself off from the 'meat eaters' because I think they are evil. Heck, my own mamma eats fish and chicken. I feel like I should be in there being a positive example and giving out the information that many just don't get in today's society to make an informed choice.Sorry I ranted on for so long, but I feel that I must be a minority in this group since no one else seems to be married to a carnivore. And although I understand the weariness of living with a meat eater, I just wanted to share my reasons. I hope I didn't offend anyone, I just thought that this might shed some light on my wacky lifestyle.(Also, I would like to point to Joanne Stepaniak's web-site, she has a wonderful article about living with meat eaters, and she puts it much more eleoquently than I ever could--and her spelling is much better!!)Hannah-- Ian McDonaldhttp://www.mcdonald.me.uk/ <http://www.mcdonald.me.uk/> To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 i'd check yer settings then i was once set on evil..ruined my parents life's fer a few years before they switched me over to non chalant... fraggle " Angie Wright " <angiewright wrote: >I suppose we are very different . Love is logical to me . I love with my >brain .....maybe I'm a robot ! > >Angie > >Angie > > >EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx] >12 July 2002 17:49 > >RE: Marrying meaties > > >love...logic? >lesley is vulcan! > > >luv isn't logical dear..its love..its an emotion..pure and simple... >who can predict that? sure, you can try and shape it, ignore it, bend >it, but you can't change it... >people are attracted to each other fer a whole variety of reasons, some >fer this, some fer that... >the bloody miracle of the brain and hormones... >when is someone gonna make those humna destroying robots anyways? maybe >they are hiding in the forests of canada.... > > > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 05/06/2002 > > > >--- > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 05/06/2002 > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 luving with our hearts is a figure of speech you ninny! of course we use our brains...but doesn't mean its logical! eh..wotever.. we is all different..i and i fer one have never been able to explain luv if you can, good fer y'all..... write a book and make a few quid.. (see how easy i picks up the lingo!) ya might as well..and you can donate some of the proceeds to help us mentally impaired cat haters who rather hang out with meat eaters and smokers and.. wait..was that this list or the other ones..?????? crap..i'm confused now... i need a nap... er a brain mmmmmmmmmmm brains..... *wanders aimlessly bumping into walls and such* fraggle *brainless and ok with it* " Lesley Dove " <Lesley wrote: >MessageNo you are right! >Our feelings as well as thoughts are from our brain, not our hearts, maybe >at one time it was thought that feelings were not in the brain but in the >heart, when amatomy and physiology were poorly understood, but we know >better now, of course we love with our brains therefore! > >Lesley > > > Angie Wright [angiewright] > 12 July 2002 23:14 > > RE: Marrying meaties > > > I suppose we are very different . Love is logical to me . I love with my >brain .....maybe I'm a robot ! > > Angie > > Angie > > EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx] > 12 July 2002 17:49 > > RE: Marrying meaties > > > love...logic? > lesley is vulcan! > > > luv isn't logical dear..its love..its an emotion..pure and simple... > who can predict that? sure, you can try and shape it, ignore it, bend >it, but you can't change it... > people are attracted to each other fer a whole variety of reasons, some >fer this, some fer that... > the bloody miracle of the brain and hormones... > when is someone gonna make those humna destroying robots anyways? maybe >they are hiding in the forests of canada.... > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 05/06/2002 > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 Actually I do think that things like VMM really do help some people to get the opportunity to meet suitable people so they have more chance of finding love. Lesley Peter [snowbow]12 July 2002 22:42 Subject: Re: Marrying meaties Hi Lesley > Some vegans (women more than the men from what I've noticed when this debate comes up) are certainly very illogical when it > comes to who they falling in love with. It seems very strange that people keep talking of "logic" when it comes to love. Perhaps we should all have arranged marriages - stick our names into a database, and let that match us up with someone. You could then get married to the "logical" choice without ever having to bother going through all that tedious getting to know them business. BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 Since it's an ethical issue about whether or not to be an accessory to murder of animals, I don't see how you cannot feel that it's everyone's moral duty to be vegan. Were you vegetarian when you married him? Even when I was only veggie I couldn't have married a meat-eater although at the time I did have a meat eating boyfriend who kept saying he would change, but that never happened. Lesley James & Muffy Caldwell [jmc62701]12 July 2002 23:21 Subject: Re: Marrying meaties Hannah, I'm also married to a meat-eater. We had our first anniversary last month, but I've only been strictly vegan for a few months, since I discovered that I have an egg/dairy intolerance. Sometimes it's an issue, like when we want to eat out (I can't find anything to eat at his favorite restaurants) or trying to make meals that we can share (he's wary of 'strange' new foods), but most of the time it doesn't matter. He's learning to like some of my meals, and I'm getting used to eating together but eating different things. It can work out as long as neither side gets caught up in insisting that their way is the way for everyone. I just try to stay relaxed. - Muffy - Trusty, Hannah Ian McDonald ; Thursday, July 11, 2002 7:47 AM RE: Marrying meaties >>Well, that *is* a difference. Unless the two of you are an exception tothe generalisations, he thinks you are going to hell, and you think hecauses hell for animals.>>Yup, that's a difference.Yes, we do have lots of differences. As far as the religion thing goes, I really don't think he thinks I'm going to hell. We both agreed early on that as long as we are both happy and it isn't hurting anyone, our own spirtual beliefs are our own business. In this case we are both very apathetic (sp??) but it works.As far as eating meat goes, I was only a ovo-lacto vegetarian when I met him, and more for enviornmental reasons (although, Ive always loved animals). When it finally dawned on me how much animal rights did mean to me, I became vegan and doing much more activist work. This was about four years after we started dating. So as far as the dynamics of the relationship go, I was the one who changed, not him.We have talked about why I am vegan now, as we talked about why I was vegetarian. I wanted him to know why it means so much to me, and he wanted to understand. I can't change him, and I don't try to. If he changes it is because he wants to, not because I want him to. That is the only lasting change anyway.He does admit that he thinks my lifestyle choices are better for health, enviornmental and compassion reasons, but he just can't make the change yet. Lots of people are that way. I was thirteen when I became vegetarian, but 23 when I went vegan. And that's pretty young. Lots of people are much older before they go vegetarain. I'm sure many on this list are in thier 30's or over and just starting to be veg.My point is that it is a hard transition to make in this culture. I know I was raised to think of meat as beef and pork not dead cow and pig. I pulled a "wishbone" or two at Thanksgiving and it sickens me now, but I didn't think twice about it as a child.Yes, I see why some want to be with other vegans, and that is fine if that is critria for a mate. But I perosnally don't want to cut myself off from the 'meat eaters' because I think they are evil. Heck, my own mamma eats fish and chicken. I feel like I should be in there being a positive example and giving out the information that many just don't get in today's society to make an informed choice.Sorry I ranted on for so long, but I feel that I must be a minority in this group since no one else seems to be married to a carnivore. And although I understand the weariness of living with a meat eater, I just wanted to share my reasons. I hope I didn't offend anyone, I just thought that this might shed some light on my wacky lifestyle.(Also, I would like to point to Joanne Stepaniak's web-site, she has a wonderful article about living with meat eaters, and she puts it much more eleoquently than I ever could--and her spelling is much better!!)Hannah-- Ian McDonaldhttp://www.mcdonald.me.uk/ <http://www.mcdonald.me.uk/> To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 >I mean it would be a completely different type of mental illness from the >depression you suffer from MIchael, for us eating it would mean we were >turning into psychopaths, people without any concern for right or wrong, >so please don't assume I lump all mental illness together, but I'm sorry >if I was unclear. That makes it okay then? Psychoses are more maligned than neuroses but that does not excuse them being used a casual form of 'something wrong with me'. Also psychoses do not necessarily involve a lack of awareness of right and wrong. The ability for people to still rationalize prejudicial misunderstanding this day and age, after all the various movements of the last century or so, never ceases to amaze. I think you were very clear. Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2002 Oh sorry, of course the Yorkshire Ripper had a great understanding of what was right and wrong, and so did Myra Hindley! How stupid of me not to realise that! Lesley Mavreela [nec.lists]12 July 2002 23:50 Subject: RE: Marrying meaties>I mean it would be a completely different type of mental illness from the >depression you suffer from MIchael, for us eating it would mean we were >turning into psychopaths, people without any concern for right or wrong, >so please don't assume I lump all mental illness together, but I'm sorry >if I was unclear.That makes it okay then? Psychoses are more maligned than neuroses but that does not excuse them being used a casual form of 'something wrong with me'. Also psychoses do not necessarily involve a lack of awareness of right and wrong.The ability for people to still rationalize prejudicial misunderstanding this day and age, after all the various movements of the last century or so, never ceases to amaze.I think you were very clear.MichaelTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 Oh God, I got myself into this sort of trouble when the subject of gays came up. I made an innocent comment and it got pulled apart like this. I personally don't think Lesley was being rude. I think she was saying that there would be no way at all that her and Paul would ever meat eat again, and she used a drastic example like mental illness to show that this would never happen unless in dire circumstances. I really do believe it was an innocent comment and as much as I appreciate that this is a delicate subject close to your heart Michael, I think it would be fair to go easy on Lesley. Janey x > That makes it okay then? Psychoses are more maligned than neuroses but > that does not excuse them being used a casual form of 'something wrong with > me'. Also psychoses do not necessarily involve a lack of awareness of > right and wrong. > > The ability for people to still rationalize prejudicial misunderstanding > this day and age, after all the various movements of the last century or > so, never ceases to amaze. > > I think you were very clear. > > Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 G'night all, I really was not getting at people with severe depression Michael, just people who are psychos with no conscience, and it can start really early, look at the kids who killed Jamie Bulger and these sort of people usually start off torturing animals, this is often a warning sign that they will get to be dangerous to people. There is no similarity between the likes of these and a compassionate vegan like you at all, so I don't see why you are getting so pissed off with me! I think animal eaters are much more mentally not quite right than you or I anyway! They have to be not quite right in the head to be able to disassociate it from the truth behind it. Lesley Mavreela [nec.lists]12 July 2002 23:50 Subject: RE: Marrying meaties>I mean it would be a completely different type of mental illness from the >depression you suffer from MIchael, for us eating it would mean we were >turning into psychopaths, people without any concern for right or wrong, >so please don't assume I lump all mental illness together, but I'm sorry >if I was unclear.That makes it okay then? Psychoses are more maligned than neuroses but that does not excuse them being used a casual form of 'something wrong with me'. Also psychoses do not necessarily involve a lack of awareness of right and wrong.The ability for people to still rationalize prejudicial misunderstanding this day and age, after all the various movements of the last century or so, never ceases to amaze.I think you were very clear.MichaelTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 >I don't see how you cannot feel that it's everyone's moral duty to be vegan. I once wrote an essay on that question. Got bogged down in why Kant should have been a vegan. Don't believe that he was. I own a feminist book which explains why vegetarianism is oppressive to women. Guess the answer isn't so obvious after all then. Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 Thanks Janey! I was not meaning anything I said in any way as an attack on Michael for his depression, I regard people who are violent to others and animals as a completely different kettle of fishless fishcakes from the likes of Michael, but he can't see that. I consider meat-eating to be pretty much like being psychopathic, doing something and having no concern for the horrors inflicted on others by your actions. That is what I am trying to say, and it's a million miles away from the way Michael is, totally the opposite in fact. I don't understand much about mental illness, but I think Michael is one of the sanest and most fair-minded people I have ever met on ! For what it's worth (which probably aint a lot!) Lesley Janey [janey]13 July 2002 00:04 Subject: Re: Marrying meatiesOh God, I got myself into this sort of trouble when the subject of gays cameup. I made an innocent comment and it got pulled apart like this.I personally don't think Lesley was being rude. I think she was saying thatthere would be no way at all that her and Paul would ever meat eat again,and she used a drastic example like mental illness to show that this wouldnever happen unless in dire circumstances. I really do believe it was aninnocent comment and as much as I appreciate that this is a delicate subjectclose to your heart Michael, I think it would be fair to go easy on Lesley.Janeyx> That makes it okay then? Psychoses are more maligned than neuroses but> that does not excuse them being used a casual form of 'something wrongwith> me'. Also psychoses do not necessarily involve a lack of awareness of> right and wrong.>> The ability for people to still rationalize prejudicial misunderstanding> this day and age, after all the various movements of the last century or> so, never ceases to amaze.>> I think you were very clear.>> MichaelTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 >Oh sorry, of course the Yorkshire Ripper had a great understanding of what >was right and wrong, and so did Myra Hindley! And all people with mental illnesses ('cept depression) are serial killers? As far as I am aware (could be wrong, not looked into it) they were both considered legally fit to stand trial (the criteria being able to tell right from wrong). Associating psychoses with high profile murderers is what I would expect of the Daily Mail, it is very evident of a complete misunderstanding of abnormal psychology, very ignorant, and very offensive. Another sentence beginning with an 'A'. Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 Sorry Michael that was facetious of me. Calmed down now! I don't know about all psychoses, again I would not be so ignorant as to lump them in together, I know some people with mental illness (psychosis) are more likely to harm themselves than others and that hearing voices does not always mean a person is dangerous or violent, I was talking about an extreme lack of conscience and denial or not caring about the reality for others of the effects of ones actions, which is unfortunately present in most animal eating adults to some degree and in people like the Ripper and Hindley to an even greater degree, but I see it as all differing degrees of the same thing, Lesley Lesley Dove [Lesley]12 July 2002 23:57 Subject: RE: Marrying meaties Oh sorry, of course the Yorkshire Ripper had a great understanding of what was right and wrong, and so did Myra Hindley! How stupid of me not to realise that! Lesley Mavreela [nec.lists]12 July 2002 23:50 Subject: RE: Marrying meaties>I mean it would be a completely different type of mental illness from the >depression you suffer from MIchael, for us eating it would mean we were >turning into psychopaths, people without any concern for right or wrong, >so please don't assume I lump all mental illness together, but I'm sorry >if I was unclear.That makes it okay then? Psychoses are more maligned than neuroses but that does not excuse them being used a casual form of 'something wrong with me'. Also psychoses do not necessarily involve a lack of awareness of right and wrong.The ability for people to still rationalize prejudicial misunderstanding this day and age, after all the various movements of the last century or so, never ceases to amaze.I think you were very clear.MichaelTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 >I really do believe it was an >innocent comment and as much as I appreciate that this is a delicate subject >close to your heart Michael, I think it would be fair to go easy on Lesley. I commented that it was offensive, that harm wasn't meant (just as with you a while back) doesn't mean I should sit in silence. By pointing it out I am trying to help you avoid accidentally offending people, and make you aware of societal prejudices. Hey, I'm being a feminist (you know they look at preconceived attitudes towards all sorts of things other than women too). Why can't people accept that for what it is, admit a mistake (I'm not even asking for an apology, just that what I said is considered in the future), and all move on with nary another word spoken. Sigh. That quote comes to mind, the one that goes along the lines of " when they came for the Jews I said nothing... " Still after being told that a psychosis equates to a murderer I'm not so sure that it was so innocent now... Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 My husband would not have left all decisions regarding the kids to me. He was equally involved in such matters includind medical treatment /education etc . Fortunately we always agreed but then he was a vegan so there were not many areas where there were problems if any . He backed me up when the hospital insisted on keeping me in longer after my 1st child was born "to sort out my diet " ---The arrogance I had been vegan for 10 years . He helped me do a runner Heartwork [Heartwork] 12 July 2002 20:29 Subject: Re: Re: Marrying meaties Lesley but what right would we have to ask that person to explain. As Graham said, it is nobody elses business. The only time you can feel you have the right to hold people to account is if they are in a position of power (as in president/prime minister, counciller etc.) There is no reason for a normal person to have to justify their love to anyone but themselves. Why do you feel that it is our business who loves who, and why are you so sure that all men will interfere in the feeding of their children. Most men I know are trusting of their partners competence in feeding their children. Jo Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 05/06/2002 --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 05/06/2002 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 No only a small minority of psychotic people are serial killers, or are we counting vivisectors, hunters and slaughterhouse animal murderers among that number, that would make it far more, they have to be either severely psychotic surely? Otherwise just plain evil? I am well aware of the fact that most mentally ill people are not serial killers, calm down Michael I am not quite as ignorant and prejudiced as you think I am! I guess I prefer to think most animal eating people are somewhat ill and not evil!? Lesley Mavreela [nec.lists]13 July 2002 00:16 Subject: RE: Marrying meaties>Oh sorry, of course the Yorkshire Ripper had a great understanding of what >was right and wrong, and so did Myra Hindley!And all people with mental illnesses ('cept depression) are serial killers?As far as I am aware (could be wrong, not looked into it) they were both considered legally fit to stand trial (the criteria being able to tell right from wrong).Associating psychoses with high profile murderers is what I would expect of the Daily Mail, it is very evident of a complete misunderstanding of abnormal psychology, very ignorant, and very offensive.Another sentence beginning with an 'A'.MichaelTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 >G'night all, I really was not getting at people with severe depression Michael You said 'mental illness'. You said 'mental illness'. You said 'mental illness'. It has nowt all to do with depression. It is to do with mental illness, that maligned category which covers ALL psychological illnesses. I speak out against latent prejudice I get attacked. I say nothing it goes on. Hey I can't win, won't shut me up though. Still this isn't about me, I don't take anything about what you said as a personal attack on me. But mental illnesses are misunderstood and misrepresented by society in general. People don't want to understand, they want to be able to dismiss people rather than accept what may be undesirable truths. If I were to say " If I were X then I might as well be gay " and defended it to a particular gay person by saying " I don't mean you, but the less respectable ones " would it be acceptable? Just as latent prejudice towards women, other races, other sexualties (sort of) are supposedly being eradicated I don't see anything right in not according the same to those who suffer mental illnesses, whether psychoses or neuroses. If you wish to associate 'mental illness' with those who are incapable of telling right from wrong then you are ignorant, wrong, and prejudiced. If not then just admit you were wrong to say 'mental illness' in your original comment rather than try and defend it and making things worse. Still, if you want to justify your prejudices, rather than recognize and deal with them, that's fine by me. I'm all for diversity of opinion so long as we are all honest about it. " [but] to be able to disassociate [what you said] from the truth [the latent social ignorance of menal illness] behind it [you] have to be not quite right in the head. " I'm going to bed now too, otherwise I might get upset and start posting to a mailing list. I hope Rosanne's not on this one. Michael (Who is very much insane, and would not want to be any other way) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 I have heard about a couple of dads who are taking their partners or former partners to court to try and force them to have their kids vaxed, MMR I think, it will be interesting to see who wins when parents disagree. Lesley Angie Wright [angiewright]13 July 2002 00:25 Subject: RE: Re: Marrying meaties My husband would not have left all decisions regarding the kids to me. He was equally involved in such matters includind medical treatment /education etc . Fortunately we always agreed but then he was a vegan so there were not many areas where there were problems if any . He backed me up when the hospital insisted on keeping me in longer after my 1st child was born "to sort out my diet " ---The arrogance I had been vegan for 10 years . He helped me do a runner Heartwork [Heartwork] 12 July 2002 20:29 Subject: Re: Re: Marrying meaties Lesley but what right would we have to ask that person to explain. As Graham said, it is nobody elses business. The only time you can feel you have the right to hold people to account is if they are in a position of power (as in president/prime minister, counciller etc.) There is no reason for a normal person to have to justify their love to anyone but themselves. Why do you feel that it is our business who loves who, and why are you so sure that all men will interfere in the feeding of their children. Most men I know are trusting of their partners competence in feeding their children. Jo Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 05/06/2002To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 > Cheers Fraggle! Mind you, you haven't met them. Mother-in-law is a dragon! Now dragons, I like. Jo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 marring a meat eater can cause a lot of problems. Do you raise the child vegan or vegetarian as you may be or not? How can a real deep animal lover stand seeing dead animals being cooked in their kitchen? I am vegan and dating a meat eater. i love him, but cant understand his lack of love for animals. he loves his dog so much, but could care less about any other animal. It is very difficult. I certainly reccomend dating someone more like yourself, ESPECIALLY MARRYING someone. If your vegan or vegetarian for just your own health reasons and not a big religious, feeling way you may be ok with a meat eater. (it wont break your heart so). --- " Trusty, Hannah " <hannah.trusty wrote: > > Jo, > Thanks for the support. It's nice to know that > someone else feels that way. > > Hannah > > > >>How could you possibly offend anyone by being > loving? You should be > proud > of yourself. If my husband wanted to eat meat I > would still love him > the > same. Wacky lifestyles can be fun - and that's what > life should be. > > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system > (http://www.grisoft.com). > <http://www.grisoft.com).> > Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release > 20/06/02 > > > To send an email to > - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 Why should Lesley admit she was wrong just because you think she was?! She's quite free to say what she wants. It was plain for everyone to see that Lesley was making a casual comment and I am sure she didn't realise she would be entering the lion's den by saying what she did. This is exactly the reaction you gave me when I made an innocent comment about gays. Back off and stop taking everything so personally. Janey Michael said:- > If you wish to associate 'mental illness' with those who are incapable of > telling right from wrong then you are ignorant, wrong, and prejudiced. If > not then just admit you were wrong to say 'mental illness' in your original > comment rather than try and defend it and making things worse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 Some of us love with our souls/spirit. Jo No you are right! Our feelings as well as thoughts are from our brain, not our hearts, maybe at one time it was thought that feelings were not in the brain but in the heart, when amatomy and physiology were poorly understood, but we know better now, of course we love with our brains therefore! ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 Muffy That is very true. It is not hard to cook different things for different family members. Peter has never eaten the same meals as us - we like different things. When my daughter was also at home, some evenings we cooked three different meals - one for me and Colin, one for Peter and one for Laura. That's what families are about. Jo - James & Muffy Caldwell Friday, July 12, 2002 11:20 PM Re: Marrying meaties Hannah, I'm also married to a meat-eater. We had our first anniversary last month, but I've only been strictly vegan for a few months, since I discovered that I have an egg/dairy intolerance. Sometimes it's an issue, like when we want to eat out (I can't find anything to eat at his favorite restaurants) or trying to make meals that we can share (he's wary of 'strange' new foods), but most of the time it doesn't matter. He's learning to like some of my meals, and I'm getting used to eating together but eating different things. It can work out as long as neither side gets caught up in insisting that their way is the way for everyone. I just try to stay relaxed. - Muffy - Trusty, Hannah Ian McDonald ; Thursday, July 11, 2002 7:47 AM RE: Marrying meaties >>Well, that *is* a difference. Unless the two of you are an exception tothe generalisations, he thinks you are going to hell, and you think hecauses hell for animals.>>Yup, that's a difference.Yes, we do have lots of differences. As far as the religion thing goes, I really don't think he thinks I'm going to hell. We both agreed early on that as long as we are both happy and it isn't hurting anyone, our own spirtual beliefs are our own business. In this case we are both very apathetic (sp??) but it works.As far as eating meat goes, I was only a ovo-lacto vegetarian when I met him, and more for enviornmental reasons (although, Ive always loved animals). When it finally dawned on me how much animal rights did mean to me, I became vegan and doing much more activist work. This was about four years after we started dating. So as far as the dynamics of the relationship go, I was the one who changed, not him.We have talked about why I am vegan now, as we talked about why I was vegetarian. I wanted him to know why it means so much to me, and he wanted to understand. I can't change him, and I don't try to. If he changes it is because he wants to, not because I want him to. That is the only lasting change anyway.He does admit that he thinks my lifestyle choices are better for health, enviornmental and compassion reasons, but he just can't make the change yet. Lots of people are that way. I was thirteen when I became vegetarian, but 23 when I went vegan. And that's pretty young. Lots of people are much older before they go vegetarain. I'm sure many on this list are in thier 30's or over and just starting to be veg.My point is that it is a hard transition to make in this culture. I know I was raised to think of meat as beef and pork not dead cow and pig. I pulled a "wishbone" or two at Thanksgiving and it sickens me now, but I didn't think twice about it as a child.Yes, I see why some want to be with other vegans, and that is fine if that is critria for a mate. But I perosnally don't want to cut myself off from the 'meat eaters' because I think they are evil. Heck, my own mamma eats fish and chicken. I feel like I should be in there being a positive example and giving out the information that many just don't get in today's society to make an informed choice.Sorry I ranted on for so long, but I feel that I must be a minority in this group since no one else seems to be married to a carnivore. And although I understand the weariness of living with a meat eater, I just wanted to share my reasons. I hope I didn't offend anyone, I just thought that this might shed some light on my wacky lifestyle.(Also, I would like to point to Joanne Stepaniak's web-site, she has a wonderful article about living with meat eaters, and she puts it much more eleoquently than I ever could--and her spelling is much better!!)Hannah-- Ian McDonaldhttp://www.mcdonald.me.uk/ <http://www.mcdonald.me.uk/> To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 Lesley What makes you think they didn't have an understanding of right and wrong? People don't always do what they know to be right, and sometimes do things they know to be wrong. Jo Oh sorry, of course the Yorkshire Ripper had a great understanding of what was right and wrong, and so did Myra Hindley! How stupid of me not to realise that! ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 13, 2002 can i come over then? i'm famished fraggle " Heartwork " <Heartwork wrote: >Muffy > >That is very true. It is not hard to cook different things for different family members. Peter has never eaten the same meals as us - we like different things. When my daughter was also at home, some evenings we cooked three different meals - one for me and Colin, one for Peter and one for Laura. That's what families are about. > >Jo > - > James & Muffy Caldwell > > Friday, July 12, 2002 11:20 PM > Re: Marrying meaties > > > Hannah, > I'm also married to a meat-eater. We had our first anniversary last month, but I've only been strictly vegan for a few months, since I discovered that I have an egg/dairy intolerance. Sometimes it's an issue, like when we want to eat out (I can't find anything to eat at his favorite restaurants) or trying to make meals that we can share (he's wary of 'strange' new foods), but most of the time it doesn't matter. He's learning to like some of my meals, and I'm getting used to eating together but eating different things. It can work out as long as neither side gets caught up in insisting that their way is the way for everyone. I just try to stay relaxed. > > - Muffy > > - > Trusty, Hannah > Ian McDonald ; > Thursday, July 11, 2002 7:47 AM > RE: Marrying meaties > > > > > >>Well, that *is* a difference. Unless the two of you are an exception to > the generalisations, he thinks you are going to hell, and you think he > causes hell for animals. > > >>Yup, that's a difference. > > Yes, we do have lots of differences. As far as the religion thing goes, I really don't think he thinks I'm going to hell. We both agreed early on that as long as we are both happy and it isn't hurting anyone, our own spirtual beliefs are our own business. In this case we are both very apathetic (sp??) but it works. > > As far as eating meat goes, I was only a ovo-lacto vegetarian when I met him, and more for enviornmental reasons (although, Ive always loved animals). When it finally dawned on me how much animal rights did mean to me, I became vegan and doing much more activist work. This was about four years after we started dating. So as far as the dynamics of the relationship go, I was the one who changed, not him. > > We have talked about why I am vegan now, as we talked about why I was vegetarian. I wanted him to know why it means so much to me, and he wanted to understand. I can't change him, and I don't try to. If he changes it is because he wants to, not because I want him to. That is the only lasting change anyway. > > He does admit that he thinks my lifestyle choices are better for health, enviornmental and compassion reasons, but he just can't make the change yet. Lots of people are that way. I was thirteen when I became vegetarian, but 23 when I went vegan. And that's pretty young. Lots of people are much older before they go vegetarain. I'm sure many on this list are in thier 30's or over and just starting to be veg. > > My point is that it is a hard transition to make in this culture. I know I was raised to think of meat as beef and pork not dead cow and pig. I pulled a " wishbone " or two at Thanksgiving and it sickens me now, but I didn't think twice about it as a child. > > Yes, I see why some want to be with other vegans, and that is fine if that is critria for a mate. But I perosnally don't want to cut myself off from the 'meat eaters' because I think they are evil. Heck, my own mamma eats fish and chicken. I feel like I should be in there being a positive example and giving out the information that many just don't get in today's society to make an informed choice. > > > Sorry I ranted on for so long, but I feel that I must be a minority in this group since no one else seems to be married to a carnivore. And although I understand the weariness of living with a meat eater, I just wanted to share my reasons. I hope I didn't offend anyone, I just thought that this might shed some light on my wacky lifestyle. > (Also, I would like to point to Joanne Stepaniak's web-site, she has a wonderful article about living with meat eaters, and she puts it much more eleoquently than I ever could--and her spelling is much better!!) > > Hannah > -- > Ian McDonald > > http://www.mcdonald.me.uk/ <http://www.mcdonald.me.uk/> > > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
