Marrying meaties

[Guest guest]

Not likely to be quite so bad if you get to know lots of other vegan parents in your area including some in the same position as you, married to meat-eaters. Also try to find some other vegan family-friendly people in your life, even if they don't have their own kids (or have grown up ones).

 

You can make choices who to mix with, just ditch the people out of your life who are likely to come down on you like a ton of bricks for raising a child vegan. It's like clearing out when you move house, when you change as much as you have in a short time, it is OK to be ruthless who/what you dump for your own sanity and ease of living. Get new things/new friends, now if only implementing my own advice for myself was easy!!

Easier to do it all better than I did before having kids I think. My mistake was thinking my existing vegan friends would be happy to be friends with vegan families when they were not - bad judgement that.

 

Lesley

 

 

Janey [janey]12 July 2002 19:19 Subject: Re: Re: Marrying meaties

Yes, I agree Lesley. This is a worry for me. Although my husband and I don't have children right now, this is going to be a future problem if we choose to have children together. Because eating meat is considered the *norm* I would have everybody come down on me like a tonne of bricks. Probably be told I was being cruel and undernourishing my child. I can see who would win. :-(

 

Janey

x

 

 

If Hannah has kids with him I wonder if he will he allow her to raise them vegan?

 

There is no doubt that mixed relationships can be very problematic when you add children to the mix, I've seen examples of it on dozens of message boards.

 

Lesley

 

To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

Brad

 

>A love that's too flexible has no integrity or meaning. People love each other for real reasons

>not in spite of differences but because of things they share. To ignore important differences to have

>a relationship that's based on a lie.

 

What is too flexible? What is too flexible for one maybe not be too flexible for another. People love each other for no real reason at all. Love is just love, and cannot be helped or forced. People do like to share interests, but mostly not 100%. If you have enough interests and ideals in common it is quite easy to be happy. Following your thread - would it be easy to fall in love with another vegan if you had nothing else in common at all. Would veganism be enough?

 

To ignore important differences just proves that you love that person very much, and does not mean that a relationship is based on a lie at all. What would the lie be - you eat meat I don't - doesn't seem like a lie to me.

 

Personally, I feel that it is a shame that Hannah has been slated on what is basically a friendly list. She has done nothing wrong, and has not even lied about her partner eating meat.

 

Jo

 

---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02

[Guest guest]

maybe brad could be president of the US..we didn't elect the one we got

nowadays....

so, wot you say brad? will ya do it? as long as u realize i'm benevolent

dictator fer life...

fraggle

el supremo grande magnifico

 

" quercusrobur2002 " <grahamburnett wrote:

 

>because it's nobody else's business???

>

>Who elected Brad to be judge and jury of other people's lives?

>

>

>

>, " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote:

>>

>> Why shouldn't she explain it to those of us who find it hard to

>understand

>> if she so chooses? Anyway you are not with a meat eater, could you

>be happy

>> with one who would not raise your kids vegan?

>>

>> Lesley

>>

>>  

>>   quercusrobur2002 [grahamburnett@b...]

>>   12 July 2002 18:50

>>  

>>   Re: Marrying meaties

>>

>>

>>   Hey hannah, you don't have to justify yourself to anyone, no

>matter

>>   what Brad might think about that...

>>

>>   Graham

>>

>>

>>   > Also, for those who are uneasy about co-habitating with

>>   a 'meatie', I look at it this way.  Before I met my husband he

>was a

>>   real meat and potato man, but now he eats a LOT less meat, if

>only

>>   by the virture that I cook the meals (I love to cook).  That is

>>   saving at least a couple of cows/pigs/chickens a year.  These

>>   animals are saved by our union-we are saving them together.  If I

>>   was with someone who would be vegan regardless of me, and he was

>>   with another meateater, then he would probably never been

>exposed to

>>   the veg. lifestyle and would have kept on eating lots of meat.

>Yeah,

>>   I know it would save a lot more if he didn't eat any meat at all,

>>   but every little bit helps.

>>   >

>>   info/terms/> .

>>

>>

>>        

[Guest guest]

Lesley

 

>Some vegans (women more than the men from what I've >noticed when this debate comes up) are certainly very >illogical when it comes to who they falling in love with. >My attitude is more like yours and Angie's as you know.

 

Falling love has nothing to do with logic.

 

>My husband and I agree that one of us wanting to start >eating animals again would constitute evidence of >serious mental illness in our case!

 

... and is mental illness a good enough reason to withdraw your love?

 

>I didn't like the idea of trying to meet someone by going and chatting to strangers in places where most people met other >people, bars and stuff, you never know what weirdoes there are out there!

 

Well you don't unless you try it!

 

>Instead I looked in veggie/vegan social and AR campaigning groups, and to some point green and peace groups where there >were quite a few veggies and vegans, it seemed logical and safe to me.

 

I agree that is a good idea - but there are loads of weirdos into animal rights. It doesn't necessarily mean that the person you meet will be responsible and not a pervo etc.

 

Jo

 

---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02

[Guest guest]

Hannah

 

Colin and I were 18 when we met as well, and married when I was 20 (he'd

just turned 21).

 

Don't worry what some other people think about your relationship, just wish

them the same amount of happiness you are having.

 

Jo

 

> Maybe my youth helped inspired my relationship with my husband. I was not

so set in my ways. I was 18 when we first started dating and we married

when I was 21 (we just celebrated our 2nd wedding anniversary a couple of

months ago!) I wasn't even looking for ANY partner when I met him. I just

started college and din't want to be 'tied down' to a relationship. But I

couldn't stay away from him.

>

> Also, for those who are uneasy about co-habitating with a 'meatie', I look

at it this way. Before I met my husband he was a real meat and potato man,

but now he eats a LOT less meat, if only by the virture that I cook the

meals (I love to cook). That is saving at least a couple of

cows/pigs/chickens a year. These animals are saved by our union-we are

saving them together. If I was with someone who would be vegan regardless

of me, and he was with another meateater, then he would probably never been

exposed to the veg. lifestyle and would have kept on eating lots of meat.

Yeah, I know it would save a lot more if he didn't eat any meat at all, but

every little bit helps.

>

> Hannah

>

>

>

> >Nope I am far too emotional to be a Vulcan, I FELT as well as THOUGHT

> >that I could not have fallen for an animal eater.

> >Made sense both practically and emotionally to specifically seek out

> >someone ethically compatible.

> >Lots of vegan women don't and they wonder why it causes arguments later

> >if they have kids, and he is not happy about her raising them vegan.

>

> >Lesley

>

>

>

> EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx]

> 12 July 2002 17:49

>

> RE: Marrying meaties

>

>

> love...logic?

> lesley is vulcan!

>

>

> luv isn't logical dear..its love..its an emotion..pure and simple...

> who can predict that? sure, you can try and shape it, ignore it, bend

> it, but you can't change it...

> people are attracted to each other fer a whole variety of reasons, some

> fer this, some fer that...

> the bloody miracle of the brain and hormones...

> when is someone gonna make those humna destroying robots anyways? maybe

> they are hiding in the forests of canada....

> cheers

> fraggle

>

>

> " Lesley Dove " <Lesley wrote:

>

> >

> >Some vegans (women more than the men from what I've noticed when this

> debate

> >comes up) are certainly very illogical when it comes to who they

> falling in

> >love with. My attitude is more like yours and Angie's as you know.

> >

> >My husband and I agree that one of us wanting to start eating animals

> again

> >would constitute evidence of serious mental illness in our case!

> >

> >When I was young and single (and I was not too fat and unattractive,

> believe

> >it or not 15 years ago) I was turned down a few times by vegan men of

> around

> >my age when I asked them out, that was bloody humiliating. I only ever

> asked

> >out a few over the years, just those who seemed compatible, and I felt

> I

> >would definitely click with (no smokers for instance). I was just good

> >friends with my now husband for years when he smoked and could not see

> >myself attracted to him until he quit, which he did. I think the ones

> who

> >turned me down probably didn't like women who made the first move,

> that's

> >the only reason I can come up with, because I was really quite logical

> about

> >it, so I only asked out someone if he clearly seemed suitable. I didn't

> like

> >the idea of trying to meet someone by going and chatting to strangers

> in

> >places where most people met other people, bars and stuff, you never

> know

> >what weirdoes there are out there! Instead I looked in veggie/vegan

> social

> >and AR campaigning groups, and to some point green and peace groups

> where

> >there were quite a few veggies and vegans, it seemed logical and safe

> to me.

> >But not always easy to find Mr Right nevertheless.

> >

> >My first husband was veggie and did go vegan for a time for me, but we

> >split, partly because he was not open about not being sure how he felt

> about

> >having kids though until after I said I felt I was ready to try for a

> baby.

> >

> >Lesley

> >

> >

> > kiwi2000 [kiwi2000]

> > 12 July 2002 01:46

> >

> > Re: Marrying meaties

> >

> >

> > I think you're both just fooling yourselves. You could love anyone or

> >anything. It's all the same right?

> > It doesn't seem to matter to either of you what another person holds

> as

> >being important to them.

> > You'll love them no matter who they are or what they do. Being part

> of

> >murdering innocent animals

> > obviously doesn't stop you from loving someone.

> > I wonder what would?

> > -

> > Trusty, Hannah

> > Heartwork ;

> > Thursday, July 11, 2002 3:31 PM

> > RE: Marrying meaties

> >

> >

> >

> > Jo,

> > Thanks for the support. It's nice to know that someone else feels

> that

> >way.

> >

> > Hannah

> >

> >

> > >>How could you possibly offend anyone by being loving? You should

> be

> > proud

> > of yourself. If my husband wanted to eat meat I would still love

> him

> > the

> > same. Wacky lifestyles can be fun - and that's what life should

> be.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---

> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> <http://www.grisoft.com).>

> > <http://www.grisoft.com). <http://www.grisoft.com).> >

> > Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02

> >

> >

> > To send an email to

> -

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Lesley

 

I would try to explain the situation only if I thought there was a chance that the person I was explaining to might understand. In this situation it would seem that there is not much chance of that, and therefore there is no need to go on trying to explain.

 

Jo

 

Why shouldn't she explain it to those of us who find it hard to understand if she so chooses? Anyway you are not with a meat eater, could you be happy with one who would not raise your kids vegan?

 

Lesley

 

 

quercusrobur2002 [grahamburnett]12 July 2002 18:50 Subject: Re: Marrying meatiesHey hannah, you don't have to justify yourself to anyone, no matter what Brad might think about that...Graham> Also, for those who are uneasy about co-habitating with a 'meatie', I look at it this way. Before I met my husband he was a real meat and potato man, but now he eats a LOT less meat, if only by the virture that I cook the meals (I love to cook). That is saving at least a couple of cows/pigs/chickens a year. These animals are saved by our union-we are saving them together. If I was with someone who would be vegan regardless of me, and he was with another meateater, then he would probably never been exposed to the veg. lifestyle and would have kept on eating lots of meat. Yeah, I know it would save a lot more if he didn't eat any meat at all, but every little bit helps. > info/terms/> .To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

Lesley

 

but what right would we have to ask that person to explain. As Graham said, it is nobody elses business. The only time you can feel you have the right to hold people to account is if they are in a position of power (as in president/prime minister, counciller etc.) There is no reason for a normal person to have to justify their love to anyone but themselves. Why do you feel that it is our business who loves who, and why are you so sure that all men will interfere in the feeding of their children. Most men I know are trusting of their partners competence in feeding their children.

 

Jo

 

 

 

No-one said he was judge and jury, but you would probably expect a person to explain it if they loved someone who was an extreme right winger/Nazi, you know you would have a problem with that!

 

What is so wrong with wanting vegans to stick together?

 

If Hannah has kids with him I wonder if he will he allow her to raise them vegan?

 

There is no doubt that mixed relationships can be very problematic when you add children to the mix, I've seen examples of it on dozens of message boards.

 

Lesley

 

 

quercusrobur2002 [grahamburnett]12 July 2002 19:06 Subject: Re: Marrying meatiesbecause it's nobody else's business???Who elected Brad to be judge and jury of other people's lives?, "Lesley Dove" <Lesley@v...> wrote:> > Why shouldn't she explain it to those of us who find it hard to understand> if she so chooses? Anyway you are not with a meat eater, could you be happy> with one who would not raise your kids vegan?> > Lesley> > > quercusrobur2002 [grahamburnett@b...]> 12 July 2002 18:50> > Re: Marrying meaties> > > Hey hannah, you don't have to justify yourself to anyone, no matter> what Brad might think about that...> > Graham> > > > Also, for those who are uneasy about co-habitating with> a 'meatie', I look at it this way. Before I met my husband he was a> real meat and potato man, but now he eats a LOT less meat, if only> by the virture that I cook the meals (I love to cook). That is> saving at least a couple of cows/pigs/chickens a year. These> animals are saved by our union-we are saving them together. If I> was with someone who would be vegan regardless of me, and he was> with another meateater, then he would probably never been exposed to> the veg. lifestyle and would have kept on eating lots of meat. Yeah,> I know it would save a lot more if he didn't eat any meat at all,> but every little bit helps.> >> info/terms/> .> > >

[Guest guest]

Janey

 

>But yes, the issue of children is a worry. If we ever have children I couldn't feed them meat, but my husband would probably want >to feed them meat. Its tough!

 

Why don't you ask him what he feels about it? I't's the only way you will find out - and better to tackle the problem (if indeed it turns out to be a problem) beforehand.

 

Jo

 

---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02

[Guest guest]

Janey

 

> I can see who would win. :-(

 

It sounds like you are expecting a war that may not exist. Instead of worry about it - discuss it.

 

Jo

 

---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02

[Guest guest]

Why don't you use mirc for this..200 msgx?

 

Gab-

 

-

Heartwork

Friday, July 12, 2002 9:31 PM

Re: Re: Marrying meaties

 

Janey

 

>But yes, the issue of children is a worry. If we ever have children I couldn't feed them meat, but my husband would probably want >to feed them meat. Its tough!

 

Why don't you ask him what he feels about it? I't's the only way you will find out - and better to tackle the problem (if indeed it turns out to be a problem) beforehand.

 

Jo

 

---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

Unfortunately Jo, I already know the answer. :-(

 

And even if I did feed my child/ren vegan food, there's no telling what the in-laws would do behind my back!

 

Janey - destined to keep animals and have no children!!!

 

 

 

 

Why don't you ask him what he feels about it? I't's the only way you will find out - and better to tackle the problem (if indeed it turns out to be a problem) beforehand.

 

Jo

[Guest guest]

I have medling in-laws who strongly influence my already headstrong husband.

 

I am the vegan weirdo, don't forget, who stands out like a sore thumb in my husband's *conservative* little world.

 

Believe me - it would be war. I've just turned 30 so I have been thinking about children a lot. But there's no way right now. So I bury the problem in the sand!

 

Janey

x

 

 

It sounds like you are expecting a war that may not exist. Instead of worry about it - discuss it.

 

 

Jo

[Guest guest]

you might wanna discuss it before it actually happens

not with his in-laws..with him

go somehwere...somewhere you both think is romantic, and bring it up..ask him

how he feels, tell him yer thoughts..and go from there...

better now then when yer preggers...

fraggle

 

 

" Janey " <janey wrote:

 

>

>I have medling in-laws who strongly influence my already headstrong husband.

>

>I am the vegan weirdo, don't forget, who stands out like a sore thumb in my

husband's *conservative* little world.

>

>Believe me - it would be war.  I've just turned 30 so I have been thinking

about children a lot.  But there's no way right now.  So I bury the problem in

the sand!

>

>Janey

>x

>

>

>  It sounds like you are expecting a war that may not exist.  Instead of worry

about it - discuss it.

>

>    Jo

>

[Guest guest]

True! :-)

 

Janey

x

 

 

> you might wanna discuss it before it actually happens

> not with his in-laws..with him

> go somehwere...somewhere you both think is romantic, and bring it up..ask

him how he feels, tell him yer thoughts..and go from there...

> better now then when yer preggers...

> fraggle

[Guest guest]

well..if they do that, i'd have to say

" respect my wishes, they are my children, i'd be happy fer yer inout, but, i am

raising these kids. if you continue to do this, visiting rights are done.. "

tho, i'm sure that would work as well as throwing kerosene on a fire

good luck

fraggle

 

 

" Janey " <janey wrote:

 

>Unfortunately Jo, I already know the answer.  :-(

>

>And even if I did feed my child/ren vegan food, there's no telling what the

in-laws would do behind my back!

>

>Janey - destined to keep animals and have no children!!!

>

>

>    Why don't you ask him what he feels about it?  I't's the only way you will

find out - and better to tackle the problem (if indeed it turns out to be a

problem) beforehand.

>

>    Jo

>

[Guest guest]

Cheers Fraggle! Mind you, you haven't met them. Mother-in-law is a dragon!

A meat eating one at that!!! LOL!!!

 

Janey

x

 

 

 

>

> well..if they do that, i'd have to say

> " respect my wishes, they are my children, i'd be happy fer yer inout, but,

i am raising these kids. if you continue to do this, visiting rights are

done.. "

> tho, i'm sure that would work as well as throwing kerosene on a fire

> good luck

> fraggle

[Guest guest]

rent dragon slayer then...

or..

had her a view willin virgins once in awhile

you'd be surprised wot folks would volunteer fer nowadays

 

" Janey " <janey wrote:

 

>Cheers Fraggle!  Mind you, you haven't met them.  Mother-in-law is a dragon!

>A meat eating one at that!!!  LOL!!!

>

>Janey

>x

>

>

>

>>

>> well..if they do that, i'd have to say

>> " respect my wishes, they are my children, i'd be happy fer yer inout, but,

>i am raising these kids. if you continue to do this, visiting rights are

>done.. "

>> tho, i'm sure that would work as well as throwing kerosene on a fire

>> good luck

>> fraggle

>

>

>

>

>

>To send an email to -

>

>

[Guest guest]

>Why shouldn't she explain it to those of us who find it hard to understand

>if she so chooses?

 

Heck, we do have to justify ourselves where people find it hard to

understand? Well there's a lot of confessing I'm going to have to do...

 

Michael

[Guest guest]

>My husband and I agree that one of us wanting to start eating animals

>again would constitute evidence of serious mental illness in our case!

 

Well that's offense to the mentally ill.

 

Michael

[Guest guest]

Many vegan parents I've come across sadly cannot trust the grandparents and won't leave their kids in their care

 

You will need a talk with them and lay down some ground rules!

 

I can trust my mum to respect us as vegans but if my dad was not around to stop her, I know she would have a crafty fag around them, which I am very strongly against. Mind you my son would nag at her like crazy so it would not be worth it!

 

I think if you want kids you should definitely not be put off from it and just do your best to raise them vegan and be firm with the grandparents over this. It's not their choice, so they frankly have no right to go against you. A compromise with your husband could be that you feed them vegan but then allow him to give them animal products only if they ask for them once they are old enough to make an informed choice on the matter (by which time you will have taught them why it is wrong, so they will hopefully decline).

 

Lesley

 

 

Janey [janey]12 July 2002 21:07 Subject: Re: Re: Marrying meaties

Unfortunately Jo, I already know the answer. :-(

 

And even if I did feed my child/ren vegan food, there's no telling what the in-laws would do behind my back!

 

Janey - destined to keep animals and have no children!!!

 

 

 

 

Why don't you ask him what he feels about it? I't's the only way you will find out - and better to tackle the problem (if indeed it turns out to be a problem) beforehand.

 

JoTo send an email to -

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the advice Lesley. :-)

 

Janey

x

 

 

Many vegan parents I've come across sadly cannot trust the grandparents and won't leave their kids in their care

 

You will need a talk with them and lay down some ground rules!

 

I can trust my mum to respect us as vegans but if my dad was not around to stop her, I know she would have a crafty fag around them, which I am very strongly against. Mind you my son would nag at her like crazy so it would not be worth it!

 

I think if you want kids you should definitely not be put off from it and just do your best to raise them vegan and be firm with the grandparents over this. It's not their choice, so they frankly have no right to go against you. A compromise with your husband could be that you feed them vegan but then allow him to give them animal products only if they ask for them once they are old enough to make an informed choice on the matter (by which time you will have taught them why it is wrong, so they will hopefully decline).

 

Lesley

[Guest guest]

I mean it would be a completely different type of mental illness from the depression you suffer from MIchael, for us eating it would mean we were turning into psychopaths, people without any concern for right or wrong, so please don't assume I lump all mental illness together, but I'm sorry if I was unclear.

 

Lesley

 

 

Mavreela [nec.lists]12 July 2002 22:42 Subject: RE: Marrying meaties>My husband and I agree that one of us wanting to start eating animals >again would constitute evidence of serious mental illness in our case!Well that's offense to the mentally ill.MichaelTo send an email to -

[Guest guest]

I hope you have yer asbestos suit handy when tackling the old dragon!

 

Lesley

 

 

Janey [janey]12 July 2002 23:09 Subject: Re: Re: Marrying meaties

 

Thanks for the advice Lesley. :-)

 

Janey

x

 

 

Many vegan parents I've come across sadly cannot trust the grandparents and won't leave their kids in their care

 

You will need a talk with them and lay down some ground rules!

 

I can trust my mum to respect us as vegans but if my dad was not around to stop her, I know she would have a crafty fag around them, which I am very strongly against. Mind you my son would nag at her like crazy so it would not be worth it!

 

I think if you want kids you should definitely not be put off from it and just do your best to raise them vegan and be firm with the grandparents over this. It's not their choice, so they frankly have no right to go against you. A compromise with your husband could be that you feed them vegan but then allow him to give them animal products only if they ask for them once they are old enough to make an informed choice on the matter (by which time you will have taught them why it is wrong, so they will hopefully decline).

 

LesleyTo send an email to -

[Guest guest]

I suppose we are very different . Love is logical to me . I love with my brain .....maybe I'm a robot !

 

EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx] 12 July 2002 17:49 Subject: RE: Marrying meatieslove...logic?lesley is vulcan!:)luv isn't logical dear..its love..its an emotion..pure and simple...who can predict that? sure, you can try and shape it, ignore it, bend it, but you can't change it...people are attracted to each other fer a whole variety of reasons, some fer this, some fer that...the bloody miracle of the brain and hormones...when is someone gonna make those humna destroying robots anyways? maybe they are hiding in the forests of canada....

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 05/06/2002

 

---

 

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 05/06/2002

[Guest guest]

No you are right!

Our feelings as well as thoughts are from our brain, not our hearts, maybe at one time it was thought that feelings were not in the brain but in the heart, when amatomy and physiology were poorly understood, but we know better now, of course we love with our brains therefore!

 

Lesley

 

 

Angie Wright [angiewright]12 July 2002 23:14 Subject: RE: Marrying meaties

I suppose we are very different . Love is logical to me . I love with my brain .....maybe I'm a robot !

 

EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx] 12 July 2002 17:49 Subject: RE: Marrying meatieslove...logic?lesley is vulcan!:)luv isn't logical dear..its love..its an emotion..pure and simple...who can predict that? sure, you can try and shape it, ignore it, bend it, but you can't change it...people are attracted to each other fer a whole variety of reasons, some fer this, some fer that...the bloody miracle of the brain and hormones...when is someone gonna make those humna destroying robots anyways? maybe they are hiding in the forests of canada....

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 05/06/2002To send an email to -