clothing dilemma

[Guest guest]

hi peter w you made a fare point here but i still you should rename the group lo vegan & veg_chat peter VV <swpgh01 wrote: Louis, Everyone is entitled to an opinion, we all know what vegan means and you know it. We use this chat room in a friendly way which is why we welcome vegetarians and future vegans and try and encourage each other as much as possible. Its much nicer to be

possitive? I`m starting to sound too sensible now! The Valley Vegan............louis stott <lsstott (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: peter 1st things 1st i have no attitude probs .. i think if look up what vegan means etc it may help you lot . i think you should rename this group to vegan & veg_chat talscarab > wrote: Hi Louis >your now vegan yes ? say bye bye bye bye to them you feel so much better for it . See, I have a bit of a

problem with this sort of attitude. You seem to be taking the view that anything which was produced or developed by a method with which we now have an ethical issue should be thrown out. In which case, I have to ask - do you support the way in which Auschwitz was run, or are you going to say bye bye bye bye to your PC? BB Peter What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Mail Championship. Peter H The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider.

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[Guest guest]

I disagree, I am with Louis.

Since he isn't as eloquent, I shall articulate his point for him,

because I think it is a valid one.

 

The " until it wears out " argument seems reasonable enough to a

certain point.

Lets say a have a rabbit skin coat and then turn vegan.

 

What if this coat lasts 20 years of good wear??

Then, I have leather shoes, and a leather belt that lasts

5 years??

 

Doesn't it seem bit RIDICULOUS to call myself a vegan while wearing

the skins of animals?

 

Another problem with giving away our animal skins to charity is,

I have seen ladies shop at used clothing stores such as the Goodwill

store or the Salvation Army and then proceed to wear them as NEW.

No one knows these furs are not.

 

If you donate furs so that someone else can continue to wear them or

continue to wear them yourself aren't you making the statement

" It's ok to wear animals "

 

and furthermore, what if an imprescionable young girl sees you or the

person whom you gave the fur/leather to, thinks " That looks nice "

 

The fur Industry relies heavily on Image, Status, Hip hop/Rap stars

and Hollywood to wear these dead animals because they know that people

IMITATE.

 

I who loves animals FEEL their untimely and INNOPORTUNED death as I

touch their skins. I would not wear my cat, instead bury him intact.

 

I would extent respect to these animals by NOT " wearing " them.

 

skins are not fabric..

 

-anouk, Lawyer for the Animals.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Peter " <metalscarab wrote:

>

> Hi Peter

>

> >We are not children here, no-one should stand up and say " I`m a

bigger vegan than you are " , that is self defeating.

>

> I'm a ninth degree vegan... I don't eat anything that casts a shadow :-)

>

> BB

> Peter

>

[Guest guest]

Initially that's what I was wrestling with when I first stated that

I didn't feel right giving the items to charity ... if I don't think

it's right to wear animal skins why would I give them to someone

else to wear? If it's wrong, it's wrong for all of the people all of

the time with no exception.

 

Yes, anouk & Louis, it's a valid point.

 

Blessings,

*mona

 

 

 

 

, " flower child " <zurumato

wrote:

>

> I disagree, I am with Louis.

> Since he isn't as eloquent, I shall articulate his point for him,

> because I think it is a valid one.

>

> The " until it wears out " argument seems reasonable enough to a

> certain point.

> Lets say a have a rabbit skin coat and then turn vegan.

>

> What if this coat lasts 20 years of good wear??

> Then, I have leather shoes, and a leather belt that lasts

> 5 years??

>

> Doesn't it seem bit RIDICULOUS to call myself a vegan while

wearing

> the skins of animals?

>

> Another problem with giving away our animal skins to charity is,

> I have seen ladies shop at used clothing stores such as the

Goodwill

> store or the Salvation Army and then proceed to wear them as NEW.

> No one knows these furs are not.

>

> If you donate furs so that someone else can continue to wear them

or

> continue to wear them yourself aren't you making the statement

> " It's ok to wear animals "

>

> and furthermore, what if an imprescionable young girl sees you or

the

> person whom you gave the fur/leather to, thinks " That looks nice "

>

> The fur Industry relies heavily on Image, Status, Hip hop/Rap stars

> and Hollywood to wear these dead animals because they know that

people

> IMITATE.

>

> I who loves animals FEEL their untimely and INNOPORTUNED death as I

> touch their skins. I would not wear my cat, instead bury him

intact.

>

> I would extent respect to these animals by NOT " wearing " them.

>

> skins are not fabric..

>

> -anouk, Lawyer for the Animals.

>

>

, " Peter " <metalscarab@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Peter

> >

> > >We are not children here, no-one should stand up and say " I`m a

> bigger vegan than you are " , that is self defeating.

> >

> > I'm a ninth degree vegan... I don't eat anything that casts a

shadow :-)

> >

> > BB

> > Peter

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree then. I still think that wearing leather shoes/belts etc until they wear out or giving to charity for someone less fortunate to get some wear out of them is better, otherwise to me it seems to make the poor animal that it used to belong to seem even more trivial/worthless. I do not however, think the same of fur, as it is as you say a luxary item and seen as glamourous, and not seen as a utility material like leather. I think these should be destroyed as they are encouraging rich bitches and financing the fasion industry to continue the death of these animals. The Valley Vegan.................flower child <zurumato wrote: I disagree, I am with Louis. Since he isn't as eloquent, I shall articulate his point for him,because I think it is a valid one. The "until it wears out" argument seems reasonable enough to a certain point. Lets say a have a rabbit skin coat and then turn vegan. What if this coat lasts 20 years of good wear??Then, I have leather shoes, and a leather belt that lasts 5 years??Doesn't it seem bit RIDICULOUS to call myself a vegan while wearing the skins of animals?Another problem with giving away our animal skins to charity is,I have seen ladies shop at used clothing stores such as the Goodwillstore or the Salvation Army and then proceed to wear them as NEW. No one knows these furs are

not. If you donate furs so that someone else can continue to wear them or continue to wear them yourself aren't you making the statement"It's ok to wear animals"and furthermore, what if an imprescionable young girl sees you or the person whom you gave the fur/leather to, thinks "That looks nice"The fur Industry relies heavily on Image, Status, Hip hop/Rap starsand Hollywood to wear these dead animals because they know that people IMITATE. I who loves animals FEEL their untimely and INNOPORTUNED death as Itouch their skins. I would not wear my cat, instead bury him intact. I would extent respect to these animals by NOT "wearing" them. skins are not fabric..-anouk, Lawyer for the Animals. , "Peter" <metalscarab wrote:>> Hi Peter> > >We are not children

here, no-one should stand up and say " I`m abigger vegan than you are", that is self defeating.> > I'm a ninth degree vegan... I don't eat anything that casts a shadow :-)> > BB> Peter>Peter H

 

All new Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine

[Guest guest]

.....and I pocket mulch......... The Valley Vegan..............Peter <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter >We are not children here, no-one should stand up and say " I`m a bigger vegan than you are", that is self defeating. I'm a ninth degree vegan... I don't eat anything that casts a shadow :-) BB Peter Peter H

 

 

Try the all-new Mail . "The New Version is radically easier to use" – The Wall Street Journal

[Guest guest]

leather and fur are the same thing.

they are skins of an animal

it is just that fur is more

obvious a skin because it has little hairs

 

leather is disguised,

it is is treated, tanned, colored, made soft, made shiny.

 

if you're going to wear leather until it wears out

you should wear fur until it wears out.

it is the same thing.

 

many vegetarians would like to think different but

ask a cow and a rabbit.

 

-anouk

 

, peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

>

> I guess we will have to agree to disagree then.

> I still think that wearing leather shoes/belts etc until they wear

out or giving to charity for someone less fortunate to get some wear

out of them is better, otherwise to me it seems to make the poor

animal that it used to belong to seem even more trivial/worthless.

> I do not however, think the same of fur, as it is as you say a

luxary item and seen as glamourous, and not seen as a utility material

like leather. I think these should be destroyed as they are

encouraging rich bitches and financing the fasion industry to continue

the death of these animals.

>

> The Valley Vegan.................

>

> flower child <zurumato wrote:

> I disagree, I am with Louis.

> Since he isn't as eloquent, I shall articulate his point for him,

> because I think it is a valid one.

>

> The " until it wears out " argument seems reasonable enough to a

> certain point.

> Lets say a have a rabbit skin coat and then turn vegan.

>

> What if this coat lasts 20 years of good wear??

> Then, I have leather shoes, and a leather belt that lasts

> 5 years??

>

> Doesn't it seem bit RIDICULOUS to call myself a vegan while wearing

> the skins of animals?

>

> Another problem with giving away our animal skins to charity is,

> I have seen ladies shop at used clothing stores such as the Goodwill

> store or the Salvation Army and then proceed to wear them as NEW.

> No one knows these furs are not.

>

> If you donate furs so that someone else can continue to wear them or

> continue to wear them yourself aren't you making the statement

> " It's ok to wear animals "

>

> and furthermore, what if an imprescionable young girl sees you or the

> person whom you gave the fur/leather to, thinks " That looks nice "

>

> The fur Industry relies heavily on Image, Status, Hip hop/Rap stars

> and Hollywood to wear these dead animals because they know that people

> IMITATE.

>

> I who loves animals FEEL their untimely and INNOPORTUNED death as I

> touch their skins. I would not wear my cat, instead bury him intact.

>

> I would extent respect to these animals by NOT " wearing " them.

>

> skins are not fabric..

>

> -anouk, Lawyer for the Animals.

>

> , " Peter " <metalscarab@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Peter

> >

> > >We are not children here, no-one should stand up and say " I`m a

> bigger vegan than you are " , that is self defeating.

> >

> > I'm a ninth degree vegan... I don't eat anything that casts a

shadow :-)

> >

> > BB

> > Peter

> >

Peter H

>

>

>

>

> All new Mail " The new Interface is stunning in its

simplicity and ease of use. " - PC Magazine

>

[Guest guest]

hi peter w this is why i wonted to say thank you for tryin to understand my replys .. i dont use my caps as much now on here as i was told by jo that it was shouting . but i dont see it as shouting lo and i miss not usein them peter VV <swpgh01 wrote: Hi Louis, I understand that you have a problem some times with your replies, which is why I bring it to the attention of the others.I want to avoid uneccessary conflict if at all possible. The Valley Vegan.............louis stott <lsstott (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: hi peter w i ow you a thank you . so thank you , i think you are the only one what knows i find it with my replys peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote: To me waste is worse than good intentions. As long as you have not bought anything made from animals since being vegan, then I think that there is nothing wrong in either wearing what you have until it is worn out, or give to a charity shop if you can afford to replace them. The Valley Vegan....................lnellhaus

<lnellhaus > wrote: Hi,I'm a fairly new vegan. I've been eating a vegan diet for a little over a year now. But, I still wear the wool and leather coats I owned before I went vegan. I feel awful about wearing them, but at the same time I feel like I shouldn't waste the clothing. It's been bothering me a lot and would appreciate any feedback you all have.Thanks,Linda Peter H Messenger - with free PC-PC

calling and photo sharing. What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Mail Championship. Peter H What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Mail

Championship.

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[Guest guest]

Likewise - my point is that if you are not going to allow yourself to

be called vegan while adhering to a vegan lifestyle and using up your

old clothes then it follows that nobody can ever call themselves

vegan because at some point you are going to be using or buying

products/services with animal products (a point already made by

Fraggle). Your point would imply that you would have to wait until

the end of your life, tot up your lifestyle and say 'hey - I was

vegan' or not as the case may be.

 

Also, is it more important to argue about this aspect than to stop

buying and consuming animal products whilst not contributing

unnecessarily to the waste that is such a problem to deal with. What

are your suggestions for the old shoes and coats etc.

 

How would you dispose of them and what would be the gain to animals,

humans and the environment?

 

Jo

 

, " flower child " <zurumato

wrote:

>

> I disagree, I am with Louis.

> Since he isn't as eloquent, I shall articulate his point for him,

> because I think it is a valid one.

>

> The " until it wears out " argument seems reasonable enough to a

> certain point.

> Lets say a have a rabbit skin coat and then turn vegan.

>

> What if this coat lasts 20 years of good wear??

> Then, I have leather shoes, and a leather belt that lasts

> 5 years??

>

> Doesn't it seem bit RIDICULOUS to call myself a vegan while wearing

> the skins of animals?

>

> Another problem with giving away our animal skins to charity is,

> I have seen ladies shop at used clothing stores such as the Goodwill

> store or the Salvation Army and then proceed to wear them as NEW.

> No one knows these furs are not.

>

> If you donate furs so that someone else can continue to wear them

or

> continue to wear them yourself aren't you making the statement

> " It's ok to wear animals "

>

> and furthermore, what if an imprescionable young girl sees you or

the

> person whom you gave the fur/leather to, thinks " That looks nice "

>

> The fur Industry relies heavily on Image, Status, Hip hop/Rap stars

> and Hollywood to wear these dead animals because they know that

people

> IMITATE.

>

> I who loves animals FEEL their untimely and INNOPORTUNED death as I

> touch their skins. I would not wear my cat, instead bury him

intact.

>

> I would extent respect to these animals by NOT " wearing " them.

>

> skins are not fabric..

>

> -anouk, Lawyer for the Animals.

>

>

, " Peter " <metalscarab@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Peter

> >

> > >We are not children here, no-one should stand up and say " I`m a

> bigger vegan than you are " , that is self defeating.

> >

> > I'm a ninth degree vegan... I don't eat anything that casts a

shadow :-)

> >

> > BB

> > Peter

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Anouk

 

>The " until it wears out " argument seems reasonable enough to a

>certain point.

 

I think both sides have very good points. I take issue, however, with the statement that I can not call myself vegan because I am using up those items which I had before becoming " enlightened " . The question is one of " what is a vegan " . Louis' definition would appear to be " someone who does not use any animal products " . Mine would be " someone who does not contribute to suffering through purchasing or creating a demand for animal products " . I see the throwing away of old products to be far more harmful than using them until they are no longer of any use. They contribute to further environmental pollution (either through burning, or through land-filling), and the purchasing of unnecessary products, which invariably will use energy to produce, and therefore contribute to environmental damage. Both of those factors will also do harm to animals (and humans and plants, as we all rely on the environment), whereas the continued use of products which have already been produced does not have any further impact. And I have yet to meet anyone who has genuinely been swayed into buying leather or fur because they've seen someone in the street - those sort of people are far more likely to be swayed by what is worn on TV, in films, and in fashion shows....

 

 

Besides which, under Louis' definition no-one can possibly be vegan. I assume that we all, at some time, take some form of transport - whether that's car, bus, plane, train, bicycle.... All of those contain an animal product, in the glue that holds the tyres on.

 

 

I suspect that the vast majority of people still have old photographs which have sentimental value - those were all produced with the use of gelatine (until the advent of the digital camera), so unless we all throw out our old photgraphs we can't be vegan????

 

 

As part of my PhD, I have to look at documents printed on vellum - that's animal skin. The animals were killed well over 500 years ago. Does that mean that you can't have a vegan historian, archaeologist, classicist, English literature-ist???

 

 

I'm sorry, but I just think a definition which is impossible to attain is rather meaningless.

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

Hi Louis

 

How about the glue that holds the tyres on?

 

BB

Peter

On 25/01/07, louis stott <lsstott wrote:

 

 

hi jo

in reply to one of your replys to ( me )

when i call a cab etc i always say to them that im vegan and dont wont leather seats etc bet you dont ?jo <

jo.heartwork wrote:

 

 

 

My point precisely - and therefore should have been aimed elsewhere!

 

Jo

 

-

peter VV

 

 

Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:55 PM

Re: Re: clothing dilemma

 

Lets get one thing straight, no-one could ever be 100% vegan, it just is not possible, unless you stop breathing or drinking anything.

Everyone tries and makes a concious decision to be as vegan as possible.

To some people that turn vegan and still have animal skin products, it is a bigger crime and wastefull to discard them after buying them than to wear them out and replace them with a vegan alternative. To others, possibly more afluent, they will replace them immediatly.

 

The important thing is that since they turned vegan, that they do not sponsor an animals demise by purchasing an animal skin product.

Judging is not helpful, your concience should be your guide not peer pressure.

We are not children here, no-one should stand up and say " I`m a bigger vegan than you are " , that is self defeating.

 

Sorry to have my straight head on at the moment, normal service will be resumed.........

 

The Valley Vegan................heartwerk <jo.heartwork > wrote:

 

 

Presumably, if you use a bus or train that has some leather or animalparts in it, or use an aeroplane that has leather seats, you will notcall yourself a vegan. In these instances you are paying to usesomething that has animal parts. If you use up an old pair of leather

shoes you are not currently paying for them.Are you absolutely sure that you do not pay for anythimg that usesanimal parts? and if so can you ever call yourself a vegan?Jo

, louis stott <lsstott wrote:>> hi anouk > thank you . at least someone understands what I'm trying to say .. > so in my book shes veg not vegan yet .

> > hi jo > please try to understand my replys a bit more you know i find ithard to phrasing my replys> > flower child <zurumato wrote:> hi jo, > I agree with Louis, > > that person can wear furs and leather until they wear out. > > but they should call themselves vegetarian, since> the true definition of a vegan is one who abstains from > animal products. > > We also have to bear in my that if someone says they are > vegan and then a meat-eater sees them wearing leather or fur,> then they might be called a hipocrite. > > It is best to model behavior and set example to carnivores, they are

> looking at the > first opportunity to find flaw in us. > > I personally would not feel comfortable wearing animal skin. > > -anouk> >

, " heartwerk " <jo.heartwork@> wrote:> >> > Hi Louis> > > > You do have a turn of phrase that annoys people, don't you! Do you > > do it on purpose or is it an accident?

> > > > I don't think I have lost. I think your logic is faulty on this > > occasion. > > > > It is sensible to use up what you have. It is wasteful to throw > > something away just because it is not exactly what you now want. > > Would it help the animals to be thrown away now? I don't see how you > > can advocate wasting anything in this age where we are trying to get > > everyone to be frugal and recycle. Even PETA hand out old fur coats > > to keep the homeless warm.> > > > When the old leather clothes have worn out, that is the time to buy > > new vegan clothes.> > > > Jo> > > > , louis stott <lsstott@> wrote:> > >> > > sorry jo > > > you have lost this on . she is now VEGAN so she needs to say bye > > bye bye bye to the stuff> > > > > > > > > > > >

> What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysisof your email personality. Take the quiz at the Mail Championship.>

Peter H

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Louis

 

>you made a fare point here but i still you should rename the group lo

> vegan & veg_chat

 

Since you seem keen on this point, why not set up such a list yourself, rather than try to change a list which has been happily running for a number of years?

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

i dont know how to do this , if i did i would set one up . explan to me how to set up please Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote: Hi Louis >you made a fare point here but i still you should rename the group lo > vegan & veg_chat (AT) yhoogroups (DOT) com Since you seem keen on this point, why not set up such a list yourself, rather than try to change a list

which has been happily running for a number of years? BB Peter

What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Mail Championship.

[Guest guest]

I can't afford to get cabs.

 

Jo

 

-

louis stott

Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:10 PM

Re: Re: clothing dilemma

 

hi jo

in reply to one of your replys to ( me )

when i call a cab etc i always say to them that im vegan and dont wont leather seats etc bet you dont ?jo <jo.heartwork wrote:

 

 

 

My point precisely - and therefore should have been aimed elsewhere!

 

Jo

 

-

peter VV

Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:55 PM

Re: Re: clothing dilemma

 

Lets get one thing straight, no-one could ever be 100% vegan, it just is not possible, unless you stop breathing or drinking anything.

Everyone tries and makes a concious decision to be as vegan as possible.

To some people that turn vegan and still have animal skin products, it is a bigger crime and wastefull to discard them after buying them than to wear them out and replace them with a vegan alternative. To others, possibly more afluent, they will replace them immediatly.

The important thing is that since they turned vegan, that they do not sponsor an animals demise by purchasing an animal skin product.

Judging is not helpful, your concience should be your guide not peer pressure.

We are not children here, no-one should stand up and say " I`m a bigger vegan than you are", that is self defeating.

 

Sorry to have my straight head on at the moment, normal service will be resumed.........

 

The Valley Vegan................heartwerk <jo.heartwork > wrote:

 

 

Presumably, if you use a bus or train that has some leather or animalparts in it, or use an aeroplane that has leather seats, you will notcall yourself a vegan. In these instances you are paying to usesomething that has animal parts. If you use up an old pair of leathershoes you are not currently paying for them.Are you absolutely sure that you do not pay for anythimg that usesanimal parts? and if so can you ever call yourself a vegan?Jo , louis stott <lsstott wrote:>> hi anouk > thank you . at least someone understands what I'm trying to say .. > so in my book shes veg not vegan yet .> > hi jo > please try to understand my replys a bit more you know i find ithard to phrasing my replys> > flower child <zurumato wrote:> hi jo, > I agree with Louis, > > that person can wear furs and leather until they wear out. > > but they should call themselves vegetarian, since> the true definition of a vegan is one who abstains from > animal products. > > We also have to bear in my that if someone says they are > vegan and then a meat-eater sees them wearing leather or fur,> then they might be called a hipocrite. > > It is best to model behavior and set example to carnivores, they are> looking at the > first opportunity to find flaw in us. > > I personally would not feel comfortable wearing animal skin. > > -anouk> > , "heartwerk" <jo.heartwork@> wrote:> >> > Hi Louis> > > > You do have a turn of phrase that annoys people, don't you! Do you > > do it on purpose or is it an accident?> > > > I don't think I have lost. I think your logic is faulty on this > > occasion. > > > > It is sensible to use up what you have. It is wasteful to throw > > something away just because it is not exactly what you now want. > > Would it help the animals to be thrown away now? I don't see how you > > can advocate wasting anything in this age where we are trying to get > > everyone to be frugal and recycle. Even PETA hand out old fur coats > > to keep the homeless warm.> > > > When the old leather clothes have worn out, that is the time to buy > > new vegan clothes.> > > > Jo> > > > , louis stott <lsstott@> wrote:> > >> > > sorry jo > > > you have lost this on . she is now VEGAN so she needs to say bye > > bye bye bye to the stuff> > > > > > > > > > > > > What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysisof your email personality. Take the quiz at the Mail Championship.>

Peter H

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Your same reply is becoming tiresome Louis. I have already said it is not for discussion. Please drop it now.

 

Jo

 

-

louis stott

Thursday, January 25, 2007 3:31 PM

Re: clothing dilemma

 

hi peter w

 

you made a fare point here but i still you should rename the group lo vegan & veg_chat peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

 

 

 

Louis,

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, we all know what vegan means and you know it. We use this chat room in a friendly way which is why we welcome vegetarians and future vegans and try and encourage each other as much as possible. Its much nicer to be possitive?

 

I`m starting to sound too sensible now!

 

The Valley Vegan............louis stott <lsstott (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

 

 

 

peter

1st things 1st i have no attitude probs .. i think if look up what vegan means etc it may help you lot . i think you should rename this group to vegan & veg_chat talscarab > wrote:

 

 

 

Hi Louis

 

>your now vegan yes ? say bye bye bye bye to them you feel so much better for it .

 

See, I have a bit of a problem with this sort of attitude. You seem to be taking the view that anything which was produced or developed by a method with which we now have an ethical issue should be thrown out. In which case, I have to ask - do you support the way in which Auschwitz was run, or are you going to say bye bye bye bye to your PC?

 

BB

Peter

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

How about the oil, the petrol, the possible wool content in upholstry, the constituants of the plastics, etc , etc, can this end now, its starting to get old, and in danger of getting personal............. The Valley Vegan.............Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote: Hi Louis How about the glue that holds the tyres on? BB Peter On 25/01/07, louis stott <lsstott (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: hi jo in reply to one of your replys to ( me ) when i call a cab etc i always say to them that im vegan and dont wont leather seats etc bet you dont ?jo < jo.heartwork > wrote: My point precisely - and therefore should have been aimed elsewhere! Jo - peter VV Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:55 PM Re: Re: clothing dilemma Lets get one thing straight, no-one could ever be 100% vegan, it just is not possible, unless you stop breathing or drinking anything. Everyone tries and makes a concious decision to be as vegan as possible. To some people that turn vegan and still have animal skin products, it is a bigger crime and wastefull to discard them after buying them than to wear them out and replace them with a vegan alternative. To others, possibly more afluent, they will replace them immediatly. The important thing is that since they turned vegan, that they do not sponsor an animals demise by purchasing an animal skin product. Judging is not helpful, your concience should be your guide not peer pressure. We are not children here, no-one should stand up and say " I`m a bigger vegan than you are", that is self defeating. Sorry to have my straight head on at the moment, normal service will be resumed......... The Valley Vegan................heartwerk <jo.heartwork > wrote: Presumably, if you use a bus or train that has some leather or animalparts in it, or use an aeroplane that has leather seats, you will notcall yourself a vegan. In these instances you are paying to usesomething that has animal parts.

If you use up an old pair of leather shoes you are not currently paying for them.Are you absolutely sure that you do not pay for anythimg that usesanimal parts? and if so can you ever call yourself a vegan?Jo , louis stott <lsstott wrote:>> hi anouk > thank you . at least someone understands what I'm trying to say .. > so in my book shes veg not vegan yet . > > hi jo > please try to understand my replys a bit more you know i find ithard to phrasing my replys> > flower child <zurumato wrote:> hi jo, > I agree with Louis, > > that person can wear furs and leather until they wear out. > > but they should call themselves vegetarian, since> the true definition of a vegan is one who abstains from > animal

products. > > We also have to bear in my that if someone says they are > vegan and then a meat-eater sees them wearing leather or fur,> then they might be called a hipocrite. > > It is best to model behavior and set example to carnivores, they are > looking at the > first opportunity to find flaw in us. > > I personally would not feel comfortable wearing animal skin. > > -anouk> > , "heartwerk" <jo.heartwork@> wrote:> >> > Hi Louis> > > > You do have a turn of phrase that annoys people, don't you! Do you > > do it on purpose or is it an accident? > > > > I don't think I have lost. I think your logic is faulty on this > > occasion. > > > > It is sensible to use up what you

have. It is wasteful to throw > > something away just because it is not exactly what you now want. > > Would it help the animals to be thrown away now? I don't see how you > > can advocate wasting anything in this age where we are trying to get > > everyone to be frugal and recycle. Even PETA hand out old fur coats > > to keep the homeless warm.> > > > When the old leather clothes have worn out, that is the time to buy > > new vegan clothes.> > > > Jo> > > > , louis stott <lsstott@> wrote:> > >> > > sorry jo > > > you have lost this on . she is now VEGAN so she needs to say bye > > bye bye bye to the stuff> > > > > > > > > > > >

> What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysisof your email personality. Take the quiz at the Mail Championship.> Peter H What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Mail Championship. The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. Peter H

 

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[Guest guest]

As I said, we will have to agree to disagree. I do not think giving someone a scuffed pair of shoes encourages them to buy more shoes (which they will anyway in all probability ), wheras giving someone a fur coat will encurage the type of person who values such a thing to wear and show it off and may encourage them to buy others and encourage others...............I agree that they are both skins, that is obvious, however one is commonplace and utility and a by product , the other is a luxary item that is given some sort of status, and seen paraded by the rich. I think it would be a lot easier to ban fur than leather. I also think it enviromentally insane to just dump the shoes rather than use them until they fall apart ( as I do with my vegan shoes). If I had a time machine maybe I could go back and not purchase them in the first place? The Valley

Vegan................ leather and fur are the same thing. they are skins of an animalit is just that fur is more obvious a skin because it has little hairsleather is disguised, it is is treated, tanned, colored, made soft, made shiny.if you're going to wear leather until it wears outyou should wear fur until it wears out. it is the same thing.many vegetarians would like to think different butask a cow and a rabbit. -anouk , peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:>> I guess we will have to agree to disagree then.> I still think that wearing leather shoes/belts etc until they wearout or giving to charity for someone less fortunate to get some wearout of them is better, otherwise to me it seems to make the pooranimal that it used to belong to seem even more trivial/worthless.> I do not however, think the same of fur, as it is as you say aluxary item and seen as glamourous, and not seen as a utility materiallike leather. I think these should be destroyed as they areencouraging rich bitches and financing the fasion industry to continuethe death of these animals.> > The Valley Vegan.................> > flower child <zurumato wrote:> I disagree, I am with Louis. > Since he isn't as eloquent, I

shall articulate his point for him,> because I think it is a valid one. > > The "until it wears out" argument seems reasonable enough to a > certain point. > Lets say a have a rabbit skin coat and then turn vegan. > > What if this coat lasts 20 years of good wear??> Then, I have leather shoes, and a leather belt that lasts > 5 years??> > Doesn't it seem bit RIDICULOUS to call myself a vegan while wearing > the skins of animals?> > Another problem with giving away our animal skins to charity is,> I have seen ladies shop at used clothing stores such as the Goodwill> store or the Salvation Army and then proceed to wear them as NEW. > No one knows these furs are not. > > If you donate furs so that someone else can continue to wear them or > continue to wear them yourself aren't you making the statement> "It's ok to wear

animals"> > and furthermore, what if an imprescionable young girl sees you or the > person whom you gave the fur/leather to, thinks "That looks nice"> > The fur Industry relies heavily on Image, Status, Hip hop/Rap stars> and Hollywood to wear these dead animals because they know that people > IMITATE. > > I who loves animals FEEL their untimely and INNOPORTUNED death as I> touch their skins. I would not wear my cat, instead bury him intact. > > I would extent respect to these animals by NOT "wearing" them. > > skins are not fabric..> > -anouk, Lawyer for the Animals.> > , "Peter" <metalscarab@> wrote:> >> > Hi Peter> > > > >We are not children here, no-one should stand up and say " I`m a> bigger vegan

than you are", that is self defeating.> > > > I'm a ninth degree vegan... I don't eat anything that casts ashadow :-)> > > > BB> > Peter> >> > > > > > > Peter H > > > > > All new Mail "The new Interface is stunning in itssimplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine>Peter H

 

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[Guest guest]

Why re-name it?, it is clear to all who are welcome here?, maybe you want to start banning vegetarians and non vegans. I think that would be self defeating, and encourage the myth about vegans being a bunch of hemp cardie wearing, tree hugging, sandeld , antisocial wierdos instead of empathic, compassionate normal people who care for life a lot? Lets not build barriers and be seperatist? The Valley Vegan.............louis stott <lsstott wrote: hi peter w

you made a fare point here but i still you should rename the group lo vegan & veg_chat (AT) yhoogroups (DOT) com peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote: Louis, Everyone is entitled to an opinion, we all know what vegan means and you know it. We use this chat room in a friendly way which is why we welcome vegetarians and future vegans and try and encourage each other as much as possible. Its much nicer to be possitive? I`m starting to sound too sensible now! The Valley Vegan............louis stott <lsstott (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: peter 1st things 1st i have no attitude probs .. i think if look up what vegan means etc it may help you lot . i think you should rename this group to vegan & veg_chat talscarab > wrote: Hi Louis >your now vegan yes ? say bye bye bye bye to them you feel so much better for it . See, I have a bit of a problem with this sort of attitude. You seem to be taking the view that anything which was produced or developed by a method with which we now have an ethical issue should be thrown out. In which case, I have to ask - do you support the way in which Auschwitz was run, or are you going to say bye bye bye bye to your

PC? BB Peter What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Mail Championship. Peter H The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your

Internet provider. What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Mail Championship. Peter H

 

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[Guest guest]

Personally , I seldom use taxis, and either drive or walk.But I do catch a train daily to work. Their upholstry on the seats looks suspiciously like it has wool in it, and some has leather trim. I would not be able to specify a vegan train........... The Valley Vegan.............louis stott <lsstott wrote: hi jo in reply to one of your replys to ( me ) when i call a cab etc i always say to them that im vegan and dont wont leather seats etc

bet you dont ?jo <jo.heartwork > wrote: My point precisely - and therefore should have been aimed elsewhere! Jo - peter VV Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:55 PM Re:

Re: clothing dilemma Lets get one thing straight, no-one could ever be 100% vegan, it just is not possible, unless you stop breathing or drinking anything. Everyone tries and makes a concious decision to be as vegan as possible. To some people that turn vegan and still have animal skin products, it is a bigger crime and wastefull to discard them after buying them than to wear them out and replace them with a vegan alternative. To others, possibly more afluent, they will replace them immediatly. The important thing is that since they turned vegan, that they do not sponsor an animals demise by purchasing an animal skin product. Judging is not helpful, your concience should be your guide not peer pressure. We are not children here, no-one should stand up and say " I`m a bigger vegan than you are", that is self defeating. Sorry to have my

straight head on at the moment, normal service will be resumed......... The Valley Vegan................heartwerk <jo.heartwork > wrote: Presumably, if you use a bus or train that has some leather or animalparts in it, or use an aeroplane that has leather seats, you will notcall yourself a vegan. In these instances you are paying to usesomething that has animal parts. If you use up an old pair of leathershoes you are not currently paying for them.Are you absolutely sure that you do not pay for anythimg that usesanimal parts? and if so can you ever call yourself a vegan?Jo , louis stott <lsstott wrote:>> hi anouk

> thank you . at least someone understands what I'm trying to say .. > so in my book shes veg not vegan yet .> > hi jo > please try to understand my replys a bit more you know i find ithard to phrasing my replys> > flower child <zurumato wrote:> hi jo, > I agree with Louis, > > that person can wear furs and leather until they wear out. > > but they should call themselves vegetarian, since> the true definition of a vegan is one who abstains from > animal products. > > We also have to bear in my that if someone says they are > vegan and then a meat-eater sees them wearing leather or fur,> then they might be called a hipocrite. > > It is best to model behavior and set example to carnivores, they are> looking at the > first opportunity to find flaw in us. > > I personally would not

feel comfortable wearing animal skin. > > -anouk> > , "heartwerk" <jo.heartwork@> wrote:> >> > Hi Louis> > > > You do have a turn of phrase that annoys people, don't you! Do you > > do it on purpose or is it an accident?> > > > I don't think I have lost. I think your logic is faulty on this > > occasion. > > > > It is sensible to use up what you have. It is wasteful to throw > > something away just because it is not exactly what you now want. > > Would it help the animals to be thrown away now? I don't see how you > > can advocate wasting anything in this age where we are trying to get > > everyone to be frugal and recycle. Even PETA hand out old fur coats > > to keep the homeless warm.> >

> > When the old leather clothes have worn out, that is the time to buy > > new vegan clothes.> > > > Jo> > > > , louis stott <lsstott@> wrote:> > >> > > sorry jo > > > you have lost this on . she is now VEGAN so she needs to say bye > > bye bye bye to the stuff> > > > > > > > > > > > > What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysisof your email personality. Take the quiz at the Mail Championship.> Peter H What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Mail Championship. The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. Peter H

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi, I just wanted to pop in and say that I had no fur before i became

Vegan, but I did have leather. I did not let ti go to waste, but ti

is no logner sittign ni my closet either.

 

I gave it to a friend who lieks leather, if we throw it away, instead

fo givign it away, the person who could've ownded it mgiht buy

another one and thats just another animal gone.

 

When you becoem vegan, give ti away, dotn throw it away.

 

 

You stop another animal from being killed and throwign it away would

just pollute our environment even more.

 

As a Vegan myself, I see ti my responsibility to stop animals from

dieing, save the environment and our planet, educate people, and

protest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Check out VEG radio. The Radio show for Veg people and animal rights

activists.

 

www.angelikfiona.com/vegradio

 

Dont forget to visit my site

 

www.angelikfiona.com

 

And sign the guestbook.

 

Grab a banner for VEG Radio

 

www.angelikfiona.com/vegadvertise

 

And proudly display it aroudn and get the word out.

 

VEG radio is a LIVE and podcasted show, so you never miss an episode.

 

, louis stott <lsstott wrote:

>

> hi peter w

>

> this is why i wonted to say thank you for tryin to understand my

replys .. i dont use my caps as much now on here as i was told by jo

that it was shouting . but i dont see it as shouting lo and i miss

not usein them

>

> peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

> Hi Louis,

> I understand that you have a problem some times with your

replies, which is why I bring it to the attention of the others.I

want to avoid uneccessary conflict if at all possible.

>

> The Valley Vegan.............

>

> louis stott <lsstott wrote:

> hi peter w

> i ow you a thank you . so thank you , i think you are the only

one what knows i find it with my replys

>

> peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

> To me waste is worse than good intentions. As long as you

have not bought anything made from animals since being vegan, then I

think that there is nothing wrong in either wearing what you have

until it is worn out, or give to a charity shop if you can afford to

replace them.

>

> The Valley Vegan....................

>

> lnellhaus <lnellhaus wrote:

> Hi,

>

> I'm a fairly new vegan. I've been eating a vegan diet for a little

> over a year now. But, I still wear the wool and leather coats I

owned

> before I went vegan. I feel awful about wearing them, but at the

same

> time I feel like I shouldn't waste the clothing. It's been

bothering

> me a lot and would appreciate any feedback you all have.

>

> Thanks,

> Linda

Peter H

>

>

>

> Messenger - with free PC-PC calling and photo sharing.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free

analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Mail

Championship.

Peter H

>

>

>

> What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free

analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Mail

Championship.

>

>

>

>

>

> The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email

address from your Internet provider.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Louis

 

Would you mind trying to explain what your problem is - why it is difficult for you.

 

Jo

 

-

louis stott

Friday, January 26, 2007 5:51 AM

Re: clothing dilemma

 

hi peter w

 

this is why i wonted to say thank you for tryin to understand my replys .. i dont use my caps as much now on here as i was told by jo that it was shouting . but i dont see it as shouting lo and i miss not usein them peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

 

 

 

Hi Louis,

I understand that you have a problem some times with your replies, which is why I bring it to the attention of the others.I want to avoid uneccessary conflict if at all possible.

 

The Valley Vegan.............louis stott <lsstott (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

 

 

 

hi peter w

i ow you a thank you . so thank you , i think you are the only one what knows i find it with my replys peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

To me waste is worse than good intentions. As long as you have not bought anything made from animals since being vegan, then I think that there is nothing wrong in either wearing what you have until it is worn out, or give to a charity shop if you can afford to replace them.

 

The Valley Vegan....................lnellhaus <lnellhaus > wrote:

 

 

Hi,I'm a fairly new vegan. I've been eating a vegan diet for a little over a year now. But, I still wear the wool and leather coats I owned before I went vegan. I feel awful about wearing them, but at the same time I feel like I shouldn't waste the clothing. It's been bothering me a lot and would appreciate any feedback you all have.Thanks,Linda

Peter H

 

 

 

Messenger - with free PC-PC calling and photo sharing.

 

 

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Peter H

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

debate closed jo <jo.heartwork wrote: Hi Louis Would you mind trying to explain what your problem is - why it is difficult for you. Jo - louis stott Friday, January 26, 2007 5:51 AM Re: clothing dilemma hi peter w this is why i wonted to say thank you for tryin to understand my replys .. i dont use my caps as much now on here as i was told by jo that it was shouting . but i dont see it as shouting lo and i miss not usein them peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote: Hi Louis, I understand that you have a problem some times with your replies, which is why I bring it to the attention of the others.I want to avoid uneccessary conflict if at all possible. The Valley Vegan.............louis stott <lsstott (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: hi peter w i ow you a thank you . so thank you , i think you are the only one what knows i find it with my replys peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote: To me waste is worse than good intentions. As long as you have not bought anything made from animals since being vegan, then I think that there is nothing wrong in either wearing what you have until it is worn

out, or give to a charity shop if you can afford to replace them. The Valley Vegan....................lnellhaus <lnellhaus > wrote: Hi,I'm a fairly new vegan. I've been eating a vegan diet for a little over a year now. But, I still wear the wool and leather coats I owned before I went vegan. I feel awful about wearing them, but at the same time I feel like I shouldn't waste the clothing. It's been bothering me a lot and would appreciate any feedback you all have.Thanks,Linda Peter H Messenger - with free PC-PC calling and photo sharing. What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Mail Championship. Peter H What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take

the quiz at the Mail Championship. The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider.

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[Guest guest]

Sounds good to me :-)

 

Jo

 

-

" angelikfiona " <angelik_kitty_kat

 

Saturday, January 27, 2007 5:02 PM

Re: clothing dilemma

 

 

> Hi, I just wanted to pop in and say that I had no fur before i became

> Vegan, but I did have leather. I did not let ti go to waste, but ti

> is no logner sittign ni my closet either.

>

> I gave it to a friend who lieks leather, if we throw it away, instead

> fo givign it away, the person who could've ownded it mgiht buy

> another one and thats just another animal gone.

>

> When you becoem vegan, give ti away, dotn throw it away.

>

>

> You stop another animal from being killed and throwign it away would

> just pollute our environment even more.

>

> As a Vegan myself, I see ti my responsibility to stop animals from

> dieing, save the environment and our planet, educate people, and

> protest.

>

>

>

Check out VEG radio. The Radio show for Veg people and animal rights

> activists.

>

> www.angelikfiona.com/vegradio

>

> Dont forget to visit my site

>

> www.angelikfiona.com

>

> And sign the guestbook.

>

> Grab a banner for VEG Radio

>

> www.angelikfiona.com/vegadvertise

>

> And proudly display it aroudn and get the word out.

>

> VEG radio is a LIVE and podcasted show, so you never miss an episode.

>

> , louis stott <lsstott wrote:

> >

> > hi peter w

> >

> > this is why i wonted to say thank you for tryin to understand my

> replys .. i dont use my caps as much now on here as i was told by jo

> that it was shouting . but i dont see it as shouting lo and i miss

> not usein them

> >

> > peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

> > Hi Louis,

> > I understand that you have a problem some times with your

> replies, which is why I bring it to the attention of the others.I

> want to avoid uneccessary conflict if at all possible.

> >

> > The Valley Vegan.............

> >

> > louis stott <lsstott wrote:

> > hi peter w

> > i ow you a thank you . so thank you , i think you are the only

> one what knows i find it with my replys

> >

> > peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

> > To me waste is worse than good intentions. As long as you

> have not bought anything made from animals since being vegan, then I

> think that there is nothing wrong in either wearing what you have

> until it is worn out, or give to a charity shop if you can afford to

> replace them.

> >

> > The Valley Vegan....................

> >

> > lnellhaus <lnellhaus wrote:

> > Hi,

> >

> > I'm a fairly new vegan. I've been eating a vegan diet for a little

> > over a year now. But, I still wear the wool and leather coats I

> owned

> > before I went vegan. I feel awful about wearing them, but at the

> same

> > time I feel like I shouldn't waste the clothing. It's been

> bothering

> > me a lot and would appreciate any feedback you all have.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Linda

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Peter H

> >

> >

> >

> > Messenger - with free PC-PC calling and photo sharing.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free

> analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Mail

> Championship.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Peter H

> >

> >

> >

> > What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free

> analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Mail

> Championship.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email

> address from your Internet provider.

> >

>

>

>

>

> To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Louis

 

There has been no debate - just the one question. I thought you might like to try to help us understand your problem.

 

Jo

 

-

louis stott

Saturday, January 27, 2007 9:23 PM

Re: clothing dilemma

debate closed jo <jo.heartwork wrote:

 

 

Hi Louis

 

Would you mind trying to explain what your problem is - why it is difficult for you.

 

Jo

 

-

louis stott

Friday, January 26, 2007 5:51 AM

Re: clothing dilemma

 

hi peter w

 

this is why i wonted to say thank you for tryin to understand my replys .. i dont use my caps as much now on here as i was told by jo that it was shouting . but i dont see it as shouting lo and i miss not usein them peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

Hi Louis,

I understand that you have a problem some times with your replies, which is why I bring it to the attention of the others.I want to avoid uneccessary conflict if at all possible.

 

The Valley Vegan.............louis stott <lsstott (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

 

 

 

hi peter w

i ow you a thank you . so thank you , i think you are the only one what knows i find it with my replys peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

To me waste is worse than good intentions. As long as you have not bought anything made from animals since being vegan, then I think that there is nothing wrong in either wearing what you have until it is worn out, or give to a charity shop if you can afford to replace them.

 

The Valley Vegan....................lnellhaus <lnellhaus > wrote:

 

 

Hi,I'm a fairly new vegan. I've been eating a vegan diet for a little over a year now. But, I still wear the wool and leather coats I owned before I went vegan. I feel awful about wearing them, but at the same time I feel like I shouldn't waste the clothing. It's been bothering me a lot and would appreciate any feedback you all have.Thanks,Linda

Peter H

 

 

 

Messenger - with free PC-PC calling and photo sharing.

 

 

What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Mail Championship.

Peter H

 

 

 

What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Mail Championship.

 

 

The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider.

 

 

 

The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider.

[Guest guest]

hi jo i would like to try to expain what my point is . as you lot know i have big probleems phrasing my replys so whats the point ? jo <jo.heartwork wrote: Hi Louis There has been no debate - just the one question. I thought you might like to try to help us understand your problem. Jo - louis stott Saturday, January 27, 2007 9:23 PM Re: clothing dilemma debate closed jo <jo.heartwork > wrote: Hi Louis Would you mind trying to explain what your problem is - why it is difficult for you. Jo - louis stott Friday, January 26, 2007 5:51 AM Re: clothing dilemma hi peter w this is why i wonted to say thank you for tryin to understand my

replys .. i dont use my caps as much now on here as i was told by jo that it was shouting . but i dont see it as shouting lo and i miss not usein them peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote: Hi Louis, I understand that you have a problem some times with your replies, which is why I bring it to the attention of the others.I want to avoid uneccessary conflict if at all possible. The Valley Vegan.............louis stott <lsstott (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote: hi peter w i ow you a thank you . so thank you , i think you are the only one what knows i find it with my replys

peter VV <swpgh01 (AT) talk21 (DOT) com> wrote: To me waste is worse than good intentions. As long as you have not bought anything made from animals since being vegan, then I think that there is nothing wrong in either wearing what you have until it is worn out, or give to a charity shop if you can afford to replace them. The Valley Vegan....................lnellhaus <lnellhaus > wrote: Hi,I'm a fairly new vegan. I've been eating a vegan diet for a little over a year now. But, I still wear the wool and leather coats I owned before I went vegan. I feel awful about wearing them, but at the same time I feel

like I shouldn't waste the clothing. It's been bothering me a lot and would appreciate any feedback you all have.Thanks,Linda Peter H Messenger - with free PC-PC calling and photo sharing. What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Mail Championship. Peter H What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Mail Championship. The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider.

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Hi there, nice to hear from you, sounds sensible to me. The Valley Vegan................angelikfiona <angelik_kitty_kat wrote: Hi, I just wanted to pop in and say that I had no fur before i became Vegan, but I did have leather. I did not let ti go to waste, but ti is no logner sittign ni my closet either.I gave it to a friend who lieks leather, if we throw it away, instead fo givign it away, the person who could've ownded it mgiht buy another one and

thats just another animal gone.When you becoem vegan, give ti away, dotn throw it away.You stop another animal from being killed and throwign it away would just pollute our environment even more.As a Vegan myself, I see ti my responsibility to stop animals from dieing, save the environment and our planet, educate people, and protest.Check out VEG radio. The Radio show for Veg people and animal rights activists.www.angelikfiona.com/vegradioDont forget to visit my sitewww.angelikfiona.comAnd sign the guestbook.Grab a banner for VEG Radiowww.angelikfiona.com/vegadvertiseAnd proudly display it aroudn and get the word out.VEG radio is a LIVE and podcasted show, so you never miss an episode. , louis stott <lsstott wrote:>> hi peter

w> > this is why i wonted to say thank you for tryin to understand my replys .. i dont use my caps as much now on here as i was told by jo that it was shouting . but i dont see it as shouting lo and i miss not usein them > > peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:> Hi Louis,> I understand that you have a problem some times with your replies, which is why I bring it to the attention of the others.I want to avoid uneccessary conflict if at all possible.> > The Valley Vegan.............> > louis stott <lsstott wrote:> hi peter w > i ow you a thank you . so thank you , i think you are the only one what knows i find it with my replys > > peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:> To me waste is worse than good intentions. As long as you have not bought anything made from animals since being vegan, then I think that there

is nothing wrong in either wearing what you have until it is worn out, or give to a charity shop if you can afford to replace them.> > The Valley Vegan....................> > lnellhaus <lnellhaus wrote:> Hi,> > I'm a fairly new vegan. I've been eating a vegan diet for a little > over a year now. But, I still wear the wool and leather coats I owned > before I went vegan. I feel awful about wearing them, but at the same > time I feel like I shouldn't waste the clothing. It's been bothering > me a lot and would appreciate any feedback you all have.> > Thanks,> Linda> > > > > > > Peter H > > > > Messenger - with free PC-PC calling and photo sharing. > > > > > >

> What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Mail Championship. > > > > > > > Peter H > > > > What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Mail Championship. > > > > > > The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider.>Peter H

 

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