Guest guest Report post Posted April 10, 2004 Hi Yannis > It is not much to explain if you look into the proposed website www.holyfire.org, but I want to write some words about. Tomorrow is Easter. > What is Easter? Actually, Easter is the celebration of the Celtic Goddess Eostre (hence the name Easter!) - it's an ancient fertility festival, hence the fertility symbols such as bunny rabbits and eggs. Unfortunately, when the Christians nicked it, they decided to change it from a solar festival to a lunar one for some unknown reason, but they kept all the rest of the festivities the same, and just super-imposed a little bit of their own mythology onto it! BB Peter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 10, 2004 In a message dated 4/10/04 9:33:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, metalscarab writes: I'm not quite sure what you're talking about, but you might want to look into the story of Dionysus... it pre-dates the Jesus story by several centuries, but apart from the names of people and places, the story is identical.. so, are they celebrating the story of Jesus in Jerusalem, or the original? chuck in mithras as well... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 10, 2004 Blablabla, Peter, Easter is called in Western Europe languages. In the Orthodox countries we say: Pas-ha = Passover. We Christians have put Christmas as well into the date of a pagan feast, so people have to decide, either they celebrate something what is for and from the only living God, the God of the Christians or they do something else. The sense is something else: Are you with the living God or are you against the living God. In the second case you are the loser, because this world has been created by God. That here on this earth not much is working it is properly and according to the plans of God, this the work of us human beings, because we have gone far away from God. Most people put other things in the place number one, the don't put God there and this is not logical. But God is showing us the way, for example His celebration of the Resurrection in Jerusalem. Here it happens every time, and every one with good will can look at it, can take so much information as (s)he wants and decide: With God or against God. YannisPeter <metalscarab wrote: Hi Yannis > It is not much to explain if you look into the proposed website www.holyfire.org, but I want to write some words about. Tomorrow is Easter. > What is Easter? Actually, Easter is the celebration of the Celtic Goddess Eostre (hence the name Easter!) - it's an ancient fertility festival, hence the fertility symbols such as bunny rabbits and eggs. Unfortunately, when the Christians nicked it, they decided to change it from a solar festival to a lunar one for some unknown reason, but they kept all the rest of the festivities the same, and just super-imposed a little bit of their own mythology onto it! BB PeterTo send an email to - Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 10, 2004 Hi Yannis > The sense is something else: Are you with the living God or are you against the living God. In the second case you are the loser, because this world has been > created by God. That here on this earth not much is working it is properly and according to the plans of God, this the work of us human beings, because we have > gone far away from God. Most people put other things in the place number one, the don't put God there and this is not logical. > But God is showing us the way, for example His celebration of the Resurrection in Jerusalem. Here it happens every time, and every one with good will can look > at it, can take so much information as (s)he wants and decide: With God or against God. You seem to have some very dangerous views - the same as those which led to the torture and burning of heretics... "either you believe what I believe or you are wrong". I still find it intriguing that the story of Jesus is near enough a direct copy of stories which predated Jesus by several centuries - why do you celebrate the resurrection of Jesus, rather than that of Dionysus? People were celebrating that story for centuries before Christians thought of joining in. It seems to me that there is a real upsurge in Christian fundamentalism lately, and this is very worrying for those of us who follow other religions. Yannis... why can't you just accept that you believe one thing and that others believe something else, without telling everyone else that they are wrong and must believe the same as you "or else"? BB Peter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 10, 2004 I am all for Christianity...It's the way Christianity is practiced by some that bothers me. It seems to me..it's mostly Non-Christians who are putting themselves out to make this world a better place..regarding veganisn...animal rights etc. According to the Bible Jesus was a man of actions as well as a talker. Jesus is quoted as reading from the old testament....no one is going to convince me he wouldn't have bothered to teach the very first thing the Bibles quotes God saying to us...we and everything with the breath of life in it shall eat the plant foods. The part where we are to have dominion over the animals and the fish etc....that is saying we should help all creatures to be vegan...in it's simple language..what else can it be saying?? Even if some fanciful writer who didn't really believe in God made it up, It still doesn't change what the writer is getting at!! Whatever day you celebrate and for what ever reason...without hands on actions, like Jesus and others...change with be very slow indeed. 2000 yrs of Christ and half the people in the world still think he is a made up character. And those that believe he holds the key to salvation ...still slaughter and eat animals worse than savages in some ways. I do not believe Jesus Christ sat around eating meat....and believe he would have taught people not to eat animals like all other religions worth their salt. S - ioannis Tsoucas Saturday, April 10, 2004 4:13 PM Re: Re: Life After Death Here is something from the living God: How God is celebrating the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ every time at Easter with the Orthodox Christians, in Jerusalem in lighting their candles: 1) www.holyfire.org 2) via my own website: www.geocities.com/itsoucas What happens in Jerusalem at Easter in the Holy Sepulchre, when the Orthodox Christians celebrate the Resurrection cannot be something natural. It only can be the work of God, because: Natural phenomenons happen regurally, when the physical conditions allow it. But the Holy Fire (others call it Holy Light) is given once a year at the celebration of the resurrection by the Orthodox Christians. This celebration is not only once a year, it is not at the same date of the year as well. So no one can say seriously it is a rare natural phenomenon, that happens once a year. But it is allways at the date and time of the celebration of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ by the Orthodox Christians The celebation is in this year 2004 at the same day with other Christians, but usually it is not at the same day. The calculation of the date is different by the Orthodox Christians than by other Christians. In the past, other Chistians have thrown out of the Church the Orthodox Christians via the way of political power and violence. But God gave His Holy Fire to the Orthodox Christians, standing outsite of the Church. Any more serious contradictions??? Yannissimonpjones <simonpjones wrote: He preached the way he thought God wanted us to live.And the first thing God is quoted as saying to humanity in the bible is avegan diet for human and non human species..."everything with the breath oflife in it"> I disagree. It stands to reason that all these ideas must have beenaround> before. Jesus didn't invent anything new. He just preached the way he> thought everybody should live. With regard to veganism - there werevegans> before Jesus (who wasn't vegan). I believe one of the oldest skeletonshad> tests done on it that proved he was a vegan.>> Jo> > I'm sure the teachings were around before Christ..but am not sure they> would> > of been embraced unless Christ embraced them first...I've not heard of> > anyone or group that practiced such teachings before Christ....Jesus is> > quoted in the new testament reading from the old testament...I'm surehe> > would of embraced a vegan diet as well. The Vatican should release allthe> > written papers it has from that era. I'm sure if Jesus was alive todayhe> > would be knocking on the Vaticans door wanting an explanation.>>>>> To send an email to - > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 10, 2004 Ioannis Blablabla, Peter, ??? I thought Passover was a Jewish festival. Why do you assume that people are either with your god or against your god? Had you not thought that we could be simply apathetic and disinterested in you god? I feel that the way you talk is a little dangerous - just as George Bush using the phrase 'with us or against us' was dangerous - and somewhat warlike! Maybe you could ponder on the point that people who do not believe the same as you are neither with you or against you but merely alongside you. Jo Easter is called in Western Europe languages. In the Orthodox countries we say: Pas-ha = Passover. We Christians have put Christmas as well into the date of a pagan feast, so people have to decide, either they celebrate something what is for and from the only living God, the God of the Christians or they do something else. The sense is something else: Are you with the living God or are you against the living God. In the second case you are the loser, because this world has been created by God. That here on this earth not much is working it is properly and according to the plans of God, this the work of us human beings, because we have gone far away from God. Most people put other things in the place number one, the don't put God there and this is not logical. But God is showing us the way, for example His celebration of the Resurrection in Jerusalem. Here it happens every time, and every one with good will can look at it, can take so much information as (s)he wants and decide: With God or against God. YannisPeter <metalscarab wrote: Hi Yannis > It is not much to explain if you look into the proposed website www.holyfire.org, but I want to write some words about. Tomorrow is Easter. > What is Easter? Actually, Easter is the celebration of the Celtic Goddess Eostre (hence the name Easter!) - it's an ancient fertility festival, hence the fertility symbols such as bunny rabbits and eggs. Unfortunately, when the Christians nicked it, they decided to change it from a solar festival to a lunar one for some unknown reason, but they kept all the rest of the festivities the same, and just super-imposed a little bit of their own mythology onto it! BB PeterTo send an email to - Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 10, 2004 This is the problem Constantine people (The Vatican) caused...It changed the Sabbath from saturday to sunday( the pagans worship day) and helped mix pagan traditions with Christs message. I think the Seventh Day Adventist are the only Christian gathers that keep to the saturday and encourage a veggie/vegan diet. Simon ---- Original Message ----- Peter Saturday, April 10, 2004 5:25 PM Re: Re: Life After Death Hi Yannis > Any more serious contradictions??? I'm not quite sure what you're talking about, but you might want to look into the story of Dionysus... it pre-dates the Jesus story by several centuries, but apart from the names of people and places, the story is identical.. so, are they celebrating the story of Jesus in Jerusalem, or the original? BB PeterTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 10, 2004 - ioannis Tsoucas Saturday, April 10, 2004 5:50 PM Re: Re: Life After Death for every one, who believes in the Lord Jesus Christ, the death has lost all his power. This resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ is being celebrated every year at Easter (Easter = celebration of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ from the death and los of power of the death for the human beings who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and follow Him). The separa! tion between body, and soul/spirit, which usually is called death is not a real death, because the soul/spirit continues to live and to be conscious and this is a state for a time only, until every one will see the Lord Jesus Christ in His Glory in the future. This celebration of the resurrection is not celebrated by the Christians only, but it is celebrated by God as well and off course. Hi...I think we should be clear about what death means. If you are getting your facts from the Bible it says in Rev: ..we will die and be resurrected, some after 1000 yrs, some after 2000 yrs. But we won't die forever. We will be dead but not forever. It doesn't say our spirits live on in anyway at all during those yrs. Simon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 10, 2004 In a message dated 4/10/04 3:33:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, metalscarab writes: Y'know, I recently discovered something amusing about Mithras.... y'know those big hats that the Pope wears... well, they are direct copies of the ones used by the Mithraic priests, and that's why they are called "Mitres"...! never thought about it that way... but...yup, yer right... of course, mithraism and early christianity grew up side by side and existed together fer quite awhile... only natural i guess that one would influence the other.... (no offense to the x-tians out there) fraggle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 10, 2004 and, his born day was..december 25th.. mithraic services were marked by the toiling of bells his was the struggle of good over evil.. and the cult of mithras involved sacrificing a bull, and dipping bread into the red blood to signify renewal......communion anyone??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 10, 2004 What I do is turn the word God into the word Good. Good is something most of us want. In that context it is not so fundmental..more likely something to be embraced if you are seeking the common good. Simon - Peter Saturday, April 10, 2004 6:45 PM Re: Re: Life After Death Hi Yannis > The sense is something else: Are you with the living God or are you against the living God. In the second case you are the loser, because this world has been > created by God. That here on this earth not much is working it is properly and according to the plans of God, this the work of us human beings, because we have > gone far away from God. Most people put other things in the place number one, the don't put God there and this is not logical. > But God is showing us the way, for example His celebration of the Resurrection in Jerusalem. Here it happens every time, and every one with good will can look > at it, can take so much information as (s)he wants and decide: With God or against God. You seem to have some very dangerous views - the same as those which led to the torture and burning of heretics... "either you believe what I believe or you are wrong". I still find it intriguing that the story of Jesus is near enough a direct copy of stories which predated Jesus by several centuries - why do you celebrate the resurrection of Jesus, rather than that of Dionysus? People were celebrating that story for centuries before Christians thought of joining in. It seems to me that there is a real upsurge in Christian fundamentalism lately, and this is very worrying for those of us who follow other religions. Yannis... why can't you just accept that you believe one thing and that others believe something else, without telling everyone else that they are wrong and must believe the same as you "or else"? BB PeterTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 10, 2004 Hi Fraggle > chuck in mithras as well... Y'know, I recently discovered something amusing about Mithras.... y'know those big hats that the Pope wears... well, they are direct copies of the ones used by the Mithraic priests, and that's why they are called "Mitres"...! BB Peter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 11, 2004 and the cult of mithras involved sacrificing a bull, and dipping bread into the red blood to signify renewal......communion anyone??? catherine >EBbrewpunx > > >Re: Re: Life After Death >Sat, 10 Apr 2004 18:57:37 EDT > >In a message dated 4/10/04 3:33:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >metalscarab writes: > > > > Y'know, I recently discovered something amusing about Mithras.... y'know > > those big hats that the Pope wears... well, they are direct copies of the ones > > used by the Mithraic priests, and that's why they are called "Mitres"...! > > >never thought about it that way... >but...yup, yer right... >of course, mithraism and early christianity grew up side by side and existed >together fer quite awhile... >only natural i guess that one would influence the other.... >(no offense to the x-tians out there) >fraggle Stay in touch better and keep protected online with MSN’s NEW all-in-one Premium Services. Find out more here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 11, 2004 Hi Catherine I prefer my wine or water to be just ... erm - wine or water, thanks :-) BB Jo and the cult of mithras involved sacrificing a bull, and dipping bread into the red blood to signify renewal......communion anyone??? catherine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 11, 2004 I heard that the mithrian priests use to sacrifice virgin girls to the sun ( their god). and the cult of mithras involved sacrificing a bull, and dipping bread into the red blood to signify renewal......communion anyone???To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 11, 2004 That high- lights how much the Vatican disorted the Christian faith...and still does. and, his born day was..december 25th..mithraic services were marked by the toiling of bellshis was the struggle of good over evil.. and the cult of mithras involved sacrificing a bull, and dipping bread into the red blood to signify renewal......communion anyone???To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 11, 2004 nah that was passed around by the early x-tian church fathers to discredit mithraism.. mithra was also born of a virgin.... I heard that the mithrian priests use to sacrifice virgin girls to the sun ( their god). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 12, 2004 In a message dated 4/12/04 8:02:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time, simonpjones writes: That high- lights how much the Vatican disorted the Christian faith...and still does. and pre vatican a lot of this stems from early christianity's struggles witht he prevailing religions at the time.... ever read clement of alexandria??? and it was paul of tarusus, and others, who moved christianity away from its more judaic roots... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 12, 2004 first of all, the site holyfire.org doesn't appear to be offered in English, and i don't have the desire to wade thru it in German at the moment...secondly, the statement and sort of beliefs stated below are presumptous and racist (*my* religion is right, yours is wrong) and is the main reason we have no peace on earth...nothing to do with a god, but with the people who made him up to follow him and do damage to others in 'his' name for their own gain. just feel the energy this sort of discussion breeds :::shudder::: my 2 £, ~shahara lefay Are you with the living God or are you against the living God. In the second case you are the loser, because this world has been > created by God. www.terrasoluna.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 12, 2004 In a message dated 4/12/04 11:34:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time, itsoucas writes: Wrong! We Christians have changed the weekly celebration day from Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday, ummm no...not really early x-tians celebrated the sabbath on saturday.. it was in the 4th century AD that the day of worship was changed from saturday to sunday again, it has a lot to do with mithraism..SUNday..day of worship of the sun god..sol invictus... when the romans had their on going wars with the Jews, and sacked Jerusalem, the early x-tians fled and spread their nascent creed far and wide... since Judea and the environs where scenes of constant upheavel and violent purges, the early x-tians began to move further away from their judiac antecedents..hence they began to take on the aspects of the other major religions and belief systems prevalent at that time... and, since the early x-tians wanted to spread the "good word" as it was, it made sense to make things more palatable to the cosmopolitan roman world.. emperor Constantine was one of the first to propose the move to sunday(and funny, he was represented as Sol Invitcus' (mithras) representative on earth), and then by the council of Laodicea .... even then, saturday worship took awhile to completely go away, and hung on in many places, like wales into the 12 century, norway in the 15th century, and India in the 16th.... cheers fraggle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 12, 2004 In a message dated 4/12/04 11:38:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, itsoucas writes: In the languages English, actually, god, got, gad etc come from the root word meaning "to invoke or call" or "the invoked" good came from a different root word which originally meant to unite, join, fit, join together, etc cheers fraggle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 12, 2004 >In other languages we don't use pagan names for the days of the week. In Greek, Italian, French, Spanish, Portugese and more languages we use words meaning: > the day of the Lord (Jesus Christ). ???? i may be wrong..but monday...moonday...montag... wednesday..wodensday... friday...freyaday...freitag seems pretty pagan in origin to me... the original anglo-saxons who invaded england were "pagans" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 12, 2004 In a message dated 4/12/04 12:08:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, metalscarab writes: Actually, it was changed by the Emperor Constantine in the early 5th century - 4th century actually..he died in 337 CE..but..close enough Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 12, 2004 - EBbrewpunx Monday, April 12, 2004 4:35 PM Re: Re: Life After Death In a message dated 4/12/04 8:02:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time, simonpjones writes: That high- lights how much the Vatican disorted the Christian faith...and still does. and pre vaticana lot of this stems from early christianity's struggles witht he prevailing religions at the time....ever read clement of alexandria???and it was paul of tarusus, and others, who moved christianity away from its more judaic roots..> No I haven't read that. Christianity was being distorted while Christ was on the earth.Christianity is basically loving what is good and right and one another. To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 12, 2004 Hi Simon > No I haven't read that. Christianity was being distorted while Christ was on the earth.Christianity is basically loving what is good and right and one another. At the risk of seeming particularly picky... Christianity didn't exist while Jesus was around, so it can't have been distorted during that time. Christianity really didn't start until something like 30 years after Jesus' crucifixion, and it was very different then to what it became of the next few centuries. BB Peter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
