Guest guest Report post Posted June 12, 2003 In the Taiwan the vegetarian society even can't eat onion,garlic,scallion. ¨C¤Ñ³£ ©_¼¯ ºâ©R - ¸Ó´«¤u§@¤F¶Ü? À°§Aºâ¥X³Ì¦X¾Aªº¨D¾¤è¦V fate..tw Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2003 OK, but what if it's leather bought before the wearer turned veg? That's grandmothering it in, and once the article is worn out, the person buys a cruelty-free item. Danielle " This is your American dream Everything is simple in the white and the black You will never need to see the grey anymore You will never have to be afraid. " --Everclear ----Original Message Follows---- wendy shapiro <wendyzshapiro Re: vegetarian meat eaters Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:39:26 +0100 (BST) There must be a special name for people who say they are vegan or veggie and still wear leather. Vegetarian meat wearers... Danielle Kichler <veggietart wrote:that's what I tell them. Semi-vegetarian also rankles. Either you are, or you aren't. If you don't eat red meat, then you don't eat red meat. I never called myself pollarian, and I never called myself vegetarian until I decided to stop eating flesh. Danielle " This is your American dream Everything is simple in the white and the black You will never need to see the grey anymore You will never have to be afraid. " --Everclear ----Original Message Follows---- " Catherine Harris " <cait2 Re: vegetarian meat eaters Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:28:46 +0000 _______________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2003 Oh, man, these are a few of my favorite things! Glad I'm not in Taiwan! Danielle " This is your American dream Everything is simple in the white and the black You will never need to see the grey anymore You will never have to be afraid. " --Everclear ----Original Message Follows---- <emily640529 vegetarian meat eaters Fri, 13 Jun 2003 05:06:20 +0800 (CST) In the Taiwan the vegetarian society even can't eat onion,garlic,scallion. ¨C¤Ñ³£ ©_¼¯ ºâ©R - ¸Ó´«¤u§@¤F¶Ü? À°§Aºâ¥X³Ì¦X¾Aªº¨D¾¤è¦V fate..tw _______________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2003 You would have to modify that for vegans/veggies who still wear the leather they bought before they were vegan/veggie. Jo - wendy shapiro Thursday, June 12, 2003 11:39 AM Re: vegetarian meat eaters There must be a special name for people who say they are vegan or veggie and still wear leather. Vegetarian meat wearers...Danielle Kichler <veggietart wrote: that's what I tell them. Semi-vegetarian also rankles. Either you are, or you aren't. If you don't eat red meat, then you don't eat red meat. I never called myself pollarian, and I never called myself vegetarian until I decided to stop eating flesh.Danielle"This is your American dreamEverything is simple in the white and the blackYou will never need to see the grey anymoreYou will never have to be afraid."--Everclear----Original Message Follows----"Catherine Harris" <cait2 To: Subject: Re: vegetarian meat eatersWed, 11 Jun 2003 13:28:46 +0000_______________STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmailTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2003 Me too! But they are not animals. I know Hare Krishnas do not eat onions, mushrooms etc. but for other reasons. Jo > Oh, man, these are a few of my favorite things! Glad I'm not in Taiwan! --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release 01/06/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2003 I think that non-veggies aren't interested in what you wear. It is easy enough, if asked, to say that you are wearing them out and will then purchase non-leather goods. If you give them details of where you will purchase them from they will kow you mean it. Jo I guess it's one of those 'in an ideal world' things. I know what you mean about using an item until it is worn out but I think wearing leather perpetuates the myth that animals are needed to clothe and keep us warm. It depends on when and how you want to draw the line. ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release 01/06/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2003 I'm sorry, I don't understand your point. Heartwork <Heartwork wrote: I think that non-veggies aren't interested in what you wear. It is easy enough, if asked, to say that you are wearing them out and will then purchase non-leather goods. If you give them details of where you will purchase them from they will kow you mean it. Jo I guess it's one of those 'in an ideal world' things. I know what you mean about using an item until it is worn out but I think wearing leather perpetuates the myth that animals are needed to clothe and keep us warm. It depends on when and how you want to draw the line. ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release 01/06/03To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 14, 2003 LOL! I love my stinky garlic-onion breath. Danielle " This is your American dream Everything is simple in the white and the black You will never need to see the grey anymore You will never have to be afraid. " --Everclear ----Original Message Follows---- wendy shapiro <wendyzshapiro Re: vegetarian meat eaters Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:58:12 +0100 (BST) No, bad breath is illegal there. shahara9 wrote:for religious reasons ? << In the Taiwan the vegetarian society even can't eat onion,garlic,scallion. >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 14, 2003 I wouldnt let it " bug me " , however I would be keen to help them understand the error in their definition and the reasons behind them. The Valley Vegan.... > Would this bug you? > >We were listing out pet peeves on my mom board and I said one of my pet peeves is when people say they are vegetarian when they eat chicken or fish. One girl said " I do eat fish and I am a vegetarian, i'm a lacto ovo pesco vegetarian " or some crap like that, lol. It just makes it garder for those who are vegetarians, and then people think you don't mind chicken broth, ect. > >Know what I mean? > >Siobhan > > > > >Free online calendar with sync to Outlook. Peter H -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 14, 2003 I totally agree, if some animal has suffered or worse to produce an article of clothing, and you did not sponsor that suffering ( i.e. did not pay for the article, but inherited it ), then to not use /wear it would be a tragic waste both morally and enviromentally. I have a belt that I was issued with as part of my uniform for work. I still wear that and will continue to do so until it wears out ( as I did with the shoes- I have since replaced them with my own vegetarian shoes after wearing them out ).I could have refused the belt when I was issued with it, but it would only have been issued to someone else. I will continue to only buy cruelty free products, but I guess it is up to the individual as to where they stand on recycling/re-using leather and how much their conscience can take. The Valley Vegan. > Hi Danielle > > OK, but what if it's leather bought before the wearer turned veg? That's > grandmothering it in, and once the article is worn out, the person buys a > cruelty-free item. > >Personally, this is what I did (in fact, I've still got a 10 year old suit which is 40% wool). To me, the point of being vegan is not to do any more harm - continuing to wear / use items which are no longer contributing to that harm seems OK to me. > >BB >Peter > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (<a Target='_new' Href='http://talk21.btopenworld.com/redirect.html?http://www.grisoft.com)'>http:\ //www.grisoft.com)</a> >Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release 01/06/03 Peter H -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 14, 2003 What about simply passing the items on to someone else or to a charity shop? Morally speaking, I don't want to benefit from an animal that has suffered and/or been murdered. Those animal products were never ours in the first place. We changed, we became vegans. That's v-e-g-a-n-s. I think I'm in the wrong chatroom!! Oh well, take care of yourselves and all the best, W xx swpgh01 wrote: I totally agree, if some animal has suffered or worse to produce an article of clothing, and you did not sponsor that suffering ( i.e. did not pay for the article, but inherited it ), then to not use /wear it would be a tragic waste both morally and enviromentally.I have a belt that I was issued with as part of my uniform for work. I still wear that and will continue to do so until it wears out ( as I did with the shoes- I have since replaced them with my own vegetarian shoes after wearing them out ).I could have refused the belt when I was issued with it, but it would only have been issued to someone else. I will continue to only buy cruelty free products, but I guess it is up to the individual as to where they stand on recycling/re-using leather and how much their conscience can take.The Valley Vegan.> Hi Danielle>> OK, but what if it's leather bought before the wearer turned veg? That's> grandmothering it in, and once the article is worn out, the person buys a> cruelty-free item.>>Personally, this is what I did (in fact, I've still got a 10 year old suit which is 40% wool). To me, the point of being vegan is not to do any more harm - continuing to wear / use items which are no longer contributing to that harm seems OK to me.>>BB>Peter>>>--->Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (<a Target='_new' Href='http://talk21.btopenworld.com/redirect.html?http://www.grisoft.com)'>http://www.grisoft.com)</a>>Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release 01/06/03Peter H--------------------talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.comTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 14, 2003 I got rid of my animal skins (respectfully) when I accepted the depravity that really goes into this, disguised caveperson type practice. Is it really go practise to wear animal skins? SP ---- Original Message ----- wendy shapiro Saturday, June 14, 2003 8:22 PM Re: vegetarian meat eaters What about simply passing the items on to someone else or to a charity shop? Morally speaking, I don't want to benefit from an animal that has suffered and/or been murdered. Those animal products were never ours in the first place. We changed, we became vegans. That's v-e-g-a-n-s. I think I'm in the wrong chatroom!! Oh well, take care of yourselves and all the best, W xx swpgh01 wrote: I totally agree, if some animal has suffered or worse to produce an article of clothing, and you did not sponsor that suffering ( i.e. did not pay for the article, but inherited it ), then to not use /wear it would be a tragic waste both morally and enviromentally.I have a belt that I was issued with as part of my uniform for work. I still wear that and will continue to do so until it wears out ( as I did with the shoes- I have since replaced them with my own vegetarian shoes after wearing them out ).I could have refused the belt when I was issued with it, but it would only have been issued to someone else. I will continue to only buy cruelty free products, but I guess it is up to the individual as to where they stand on recycling/re-using leather and how much their conscience can take.The Valley Vegan.> Hi Danielle>> OK, but what if it's leather bought befo! re the wearer turned veg? That's> grandmothering it in, and once the article is worn out, the person buys a> cruelty-free item.>>Personally, this is what I did (in fact, I've still got a 10 year old suit which is 40% wool). To me, the point of being vegan is not to do any more harm - continuing to wear / use items which are no longer contributing to that harm seems OK to me.>>BB>Peter>>>--->Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (<a Target='_new' Href='http://talk21.btopenworld.com/redirect.html?http://www.grisoft.com)'>http://www.grisoft.com)</a>>Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release 01/06/03Peter H--------------------talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.comTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 14, 2003 Hi Wendy > What about simply passing the items on to someone else or to a charity shop? Morally speaking, I don't want to benefit > from an animal that has suffered and/or been murdered. Those animal products were never ours in the first place. We > changed, we became vegans. Unfortunately, becomming vegan doesn't mean that we somehow all become rich and can afford to replace all our clothing, wallets, bags, etc. My only "animal" item left now is a 10 year old 40% wool suit - and with suits costing somewhere over £100, giving it away and having to buy a new vegan one (which would probably be 4 times more expensive) simply isn't an option. I also think it is a shame you need to be quite so judgemental about people who choose a slightly different morality to your own. People differ considerably in their moral views, and you shouldn't simply expect everyone to agree with you. Please try not to be a fundamentalist vegan :-) Personally, I feel that if you have already paid for the item (before becomming vegan), then continuing to use it is not doing any more harm. BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release 01/06/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 14, 2003 Hi Simon > Is it really go practise to wear animal skins? What harm does it do to continue to wear animal products which you already had? I can fully understand the harm done by buying more animal products, but I'm mystified as to what harm is done by using what you already have. After all, it's not as though the animal can suffer or die any more than it already has! BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release 01/06/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 14, 2003 Hi Peter I just think it's not the best way to promotes non- animal cruelty, and doesn'tr really give out a positive message to people.. to giving up animal products. SP ---- Original Message ----- Peter Saturday, June 14, 2003 9:44 PM Re: vegetarian meat eaters Hi Simon > Is it really good practise to wear animal skins? What harm does it do to continue to wear animal products which you already had? I can fully understand the harm done by buying more animal products, but I'm mystified as to what harm is done by using what you already have. After all, it's not as though the animal can suffer or die any more than it already has! BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release 01/06/03To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 14, 2003 Hi Simon > I just think it's not the best way to promotes non- animal cruelty, and doesn'tr really give out a positive message to people.. to > giving up animal products. I really don't think non-vegans care too much about what vegans wear. I don't see that it actually makes any difference at all in the "promotion" of veganism. BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release 01/06/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 14, 2003 Hi Peter I believe, it has got to be better that people aren't wearing animal skins then are. SP ---- Original Message ----- Peter Saturday, June 14, 2003 10:52 PM Re: vegetarian meat eaters Hi Simon > I just think it's not the best way to promotes non- animal cruelty, and doesn'tr really give out a positive message to people.. to > giving up animal products. I really don't think non-vegans care too much about what vegans wear. I don't see that it actually makes any difference at all in the "promotion" of veganism. BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release 01/06/03To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 15, 2003 Maybe Jo I think I'm in the wrong chatroom!! ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release 02/06/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 15, 2003 Simon I think even fewer people would consider giving up eating animals if they realised at the outset that they would be expected to instantly through away their collection of shoes, bags, belts, wool etc. etc. etc. It is sensible to finish using the items you already posses and then buy non-animal items the next time round. Jo - simonpjones Saturday, June 14, 2003 10:06 PM Re: vegetarian meat eaters Hi Peter I just think it's not the best way to promotes non- animal cruelty, and doesn'tr really give out a positive message to people.. to giving up animal products. SP ---- Original Message ----- Peter Saturday, June 14, 2003 9:44 PM Re: vegetarian meat eaters Hi Simon > Is it really good practise to wear animal skins? What harm does it do to continue to wear animal products which you already had? I can fully understand the harm done by buying more animal products, but I'm mystified as to what harm is done by using what you already have. After all, it's not as though the animal can suffer or die any more than it already has! BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release 01/06/03To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 15, 2003 There are some anti-veg assholes who will do everything they can to pick on you for every misstep. They're the sort who will harsh on you for wearing leather shoes, even if you did buy them long before you went vegan; they won't hear or care about that part. Danielle " This is your American dream Everything is simple in the white and the black You will never need to see the grey anymore You will never have to be afraid. " --Everclear ----Original Message Follows---- " Peter " <metalscarab Re: vegetarian meat eaters Sat, 14 Jun 2003 22:52:28 +0100 Hi Simon > I just think it's not the best way to promotes non- animal cruelty, and doesn'tr really give out a positive message to people.. to > giving up animal products. I really don't think non-vegans care too much about what vegans wear. I don't see that it actually makes any difference at all in the " promotion " of veganism. BB Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release 01/06/03 _______________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 15, 2003 Why let the onus be on you to explain your whole lifestyle and every move you make to other people who cannot be bothered to take ethical actions? Also - imitation leather looks exactly like leather - so how would they know what your shoes are made of. They ask the same if you are wearing non-leather shoes. Jo - Danielle Kichler Sunday, June 15, 2003 5:56 AM Re: vegetarian meat eaters There are some anti-veg assholes who will do everything they can to pick on you for every misstep. They're the sort who will harsh on you for wearing leather shoes, even if you did buy them long before you went vegan; they won't hear or care about that part.Danielle"This is your American dreamEverything is simple in the white and the blackYou will never need to see the grey anymoreYou will never have to be afraid."--Everclear----Original Message Follows----"Peter" <metalscarab To: Re: vegetarian meat eatersSat, 14 Jun 2003 22:52:28 +0100Hi Simon> I just think it's not the best way to promotes non- animal cruelty, and doesn'tr really give out a positive message to people.. to> giving up animal products.I really don't think non-vegans care too much about what vegans wear. I don't see that it actually makes any difference at all in the "promotion" of veganism.BBPeter---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release 01/06/03_______________Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmailTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 15, 2003 Hi Danielle > There are some anti-veg assholes who will do everything they can to pick on > you for every misstep. They're the sort who will harsh on you for wearing > leather shoes, even if you did buy them long before you went vegan; they > won't hear or care about that part. They'd be nasty whatever you do - that's the way bullies are. It's not like not wearing the leather shoes is going to miraculously convert these people into vegans, and I don't see why they should bully us into wasting our money. BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release 01/06/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 15, 2003 - Peter Sunday, June 15, 2003 12:41 AM Re: vegetarian meat eaters Simon I think even fewer people would consider giving up eating animals if they realised at the outset that they would be expected to instantly through away their collection of shoes, bags, belts, wool etc. etc. etc. It is sensible to finish using the items you already posses and then buy non-animal items the next time round.> Jo I would be surprised if many have given up so many animal products, say in one day...if, being new to veganism. Ideally..the sooner the animals products are given up the better.. is really all I'm saying. Sometimes leather takes a long time to wear out. SP SP - simonpjones Saturday, June 14, 2003 10:06 PM Re: vegetarian meat eaters Hi Peter I just think it's not the best way to promotes non- animal cruelty, and doesn'tr really give out a positive message to people.. to giving up animal products. SP ---- Original Message ----- Peter Saturday, June 14, 2003 9:44 PM Re: vegetarian meat eaters Hi Simon > Is it really good practise to wear animal skins? What harm does it do to continue to wear animal products which you already had? I can fully understand the harm done by buying more animal products, but I'm mystified as to what harm is done by using what you already have. After all, it's not as though the animal can suffer or die any more than it already has! BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release 01/06/03To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 15, 2003 In a message dated 6/14/03 12:23:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, wendyzshapiro writes: hose animal products were never ours in the first place. We changed, we became vegans. That's v-e-g-a-n-s. I think I'm in the wrong chatroom!! Oh well, take care of yourselves and all the best, there is no one answer to wot is vegan and why....people are vegan for different reasons and go about it in a variety of fashions... the main goal is to eliminate animal products from the diet and lifestyle... some folks get rid of all leather goods immediately, some wait to they wear out, some hand them to thrift shops, etc. hate to be a pill..but, unless ya plan on being a hermit and making everything yer own, it is impossible to be 100% vegan in this society.... do you drive a car? the metal in it was probably made on machines lubricated with animal fat. do you use veggies you bought at the store?? somewhere along the way, they were either grown with animal products or had animal products tossed on em er.. do you use anything with plastic, steel, vinyl in it? how about prescription medicines? to me, the goal is to limit it as much as possible, and try yer dangdest to limit the exploitation of animals...you can only do yer best... veganism is a long journey, something you strive fer yer whole life, and are continually working on, imo.... cheers fraggle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 15, 2003 In a message dated 6/14/03 1:46:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, metalscarab writes: Unfortunately, becomming vegan doesn't mean that we somehow all become rich and can afford to replace all our clothing, wallets, bags, etc. My only "animal" item left now is a 10 year old 40% wool suit - i'm just sorta mortified that Peter owns a suit.... *blinks* oh peter, my whole image of you is shattered ferever... heh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
