Guest guest Report post Posted May 10, 2003 I'm not sure people treating statues as if they hold some holy power is a good thing. As they are human made. But as a piece art, fair enough. Simon > Maybe it is okay in the Catholic religion - after all it is only a > representation, an archetype - something to concentrate the mind on an idea. > > > The Catholic church holds mary probably higher then Jesus in some ways. > When > > I was a kid my Nan use to make me knee in front of a statue of Mary both > > morning and night to say prays before bed. I know she ment well Human > made > > things shouldn't be worshipped > > > > > > > Danielle > > > > > > > > > > > > " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette > > Rankin> > > > > > But you can stop a war more easierly than an earthquake > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > > " Catherine Harris " <cait2 > > > > > > > > > Re: That's it. > > > Thu, 08 May 2003 12:24:16 +0000 > > > > > > _______________ > > > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > > > > > > > > To send an email to - > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 10, 2003 - Heartwork Saturday, May 10, 2003 7:35 PM Re: That's it. Maybe if treated as religious art, but not if the statues are treated as holy in themselves. S It could be inspirational though. Jo But very little to do Christianity! ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release 18/04/03To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 11, 2003 a woman shouldnt have to conform to an idea of virtue to be considered ok............men are men without needing to seem good........and when women arent setting the agenda of whats good and virtuous....... then thats even worse a woman has the right to determine her self worth, herself........ and i do not speak just about biblical times.............some men now think the only woman worth "having" is a "good" woman, and that a man isnt a"man" if he cant control "his" woman catherine >"Danielle Kichler" > > >Re: That's it. >Fri, 09 May 2003 20:38:36 -0400 > >Oh, I don't doubt there are courageous women in the bible. I wasn't saying >there weren't. I was saying that a lot of ultrareligious people focus on >the sins of Eve and ignore the virtuous and the strong women depicted >within. > >Danielle > > > >"You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake"--Jeanette Rankin > > > > > >----Original Message Follows---- >"Amylia F" > > >Re: That's it. >Fri, 09 May 2003 10:47:57 -0700 > >_______________ >The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ><< message5.txt >> Want your email in a hurry? Get Hotmail direct to your mobile Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 11, 2003 There have been numerous myths about the menstruating woman. It was thought her touch could sour milk, ruin crops, blah, blah. Some cultures had a hut into which menstruating women would be sent; a former coworker would refer to that time as " being in the hut. " While the idea of isolating a woman 'cause she's bleeding is anathema to my feminist ideals, at least it got them out of housework and childcare for three days! The Jewish religion is really wacky with regards to menstruation, as the woman is considered " unclean, " and her husband is not allowed to touch her--not even touch her--unless there has been no blood flow for a week, and she has gone into the mikvah, the ritual bath. And people wonder why I'm so down on organized religion Danielle " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette Rankin ----Original Message Follows---- " Heartwork " <Heartwork Re: That's it. Sat, 10 May 2003 19:34:37 +0100 My only memories of women in the Bible were to say that when they were menstruating they should be kept away from the normal dwelling, as though dirty. That was the end of my Bible reading days. Christianity lost me that day. Jo For a more uplifting description of women, get a Bible, (a public library should have one), find the book of Proverbs, (it's in the Old Testament), turn to chapter 31, and read verses 10-31, especially 31.---This is known as the description of " the virtuous woman. " Also, read the book of Esther in its entirety. (It's also in the Old Testament, and fairly short.) ----It's basically the story of how one single woman saved an entire group of people from total destruction. There's a lot more to read about women in the Bible than people think. **Many apologies to others who think this list is turning into a Bible class. As my point was only to enlighten, not preach. *This message was brought to you by: Amy > " Danielle Kichler " > > >Re: That's it. >Thu, 08 May 2003 22:17:01 -0400 > >Interesting, the Eve bit--all women are evil and must be punished because of >Eve fell for the snake's line and tempted Adam. However, we don't get >credit for the goodness of the Virgin Mary. > >Danielle > > > > " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette Rankin > > > > > >----Original Message Follows---- > " Catherine Harris " > > >Re: That's it. >Thu, 08 May 2003 12:24:16 +0000 > >_______________ >MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ><< message5.txt >> MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 11, 2003 - " Vegecentric " <vegecentric Monday, May 12, 2003 7:16 AM Re: That's it. When I hear talk of Christianity..Catholicism dosn't come to mind. No disrespect to anyone who is seeking the truth and are with the Catholic church. Simon > If the subject of all the Catholic priests charged & convicted of raping and > molesting kids is raised (at least 50 in the last decade here in Oz, and > increasing), my Mum denounces it all as a pack of anti-Catholic lies. None > is so blind as those who will not see... > > Tom > - > " Danielle Kichler " <veggietart > > Saturday, May 10, 2003 8:20 AM > Re: That's it. > > > > For a lovely example of Catholic hypocrisy, get this: one of the many > > colleges here in DC is Catholic University of America. Last year, > Attorney > > General John Ashcroft gave the commencement speech. This year, after > > student protests, DC Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton was disinvited from > > giving a talk at the school's book store because she is pro-choice, which > we > > all know runs counter to Catholic views. Ashcroft's enthusiastic support > > for the death penalty--which I believe the Pope opposes--evidently was not > > as important. Norton wasn't even going to discuss that; she was there > > because a biography of her had been recently published. > > > > Danielle > > > > > > > > " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette > Rankin > > > > > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > " Vegecentric " <vegecentric > > > > > > Re: That's it. > > Fri, 9 May 2003 20:37:39 -0700 > > > > I was raised strict catholic, and they are most conservative, hypocritcal > > bunch of pricks you'll meet. The Pope apparently blessed the (fascist) > > Italian troops before going to war (WW2). > > > > Tom > > - > > simonpjones > > > > Thursday, May 08, 2003 7:54 AM > > Re: That's it. > > > > > > > > - > > Catherine Harris > > > > Thursday, May 08, 2003 1:24 PM > > Re: That's it. > > > > > > . The sermon was about Genesis, and centred on the fact that women > > deserve pain, suffering because they are full of sin and ate the apple, > > > > Did they actually mention an apple as there is no mention of apples > in > > bibles I've read? > > > > You must of went to a catholic church or an anglican church as they > in > > my experience don't even denounce war. > > > > Why they don't read the gospels and try to preach what is said in > them, > > is strange to say the least. > > > > Simon > > > > > " Danielle Kichler " > > > > > > > > > > >Re: That's it. > > >Thu, 08 May 2003 07:49:30 -0400 > > > > > >I'm sorry if anything I've said could be construed as bashing > > religion. I > > >have just heard about too many horrible, horrible things done in the > > name of > > >religion over the millenia to not bash religion. I have also > > experienced > > >hostility at several points in my life because of my varying > beliefs. > > And I > > >loathe organized religion's hostility toward women, a reason I have > > >jettisoned the whole business. > > > > > >Veganism is based in compassion; organized religion talks > compassion, > > but I > > >sure don't see a whole lot of it from so-called religious leaders. > And > > >while there are animal rights activists who do some horrible things, > > they > > >cannot compare to the slaughter perpetuated in the name of religion. > > > > > >Danielle > > > > > > > > > " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette > > Rankin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----Original Message Follows---- > > > " Amylia F " > > > > > > > > > That's it. > > >Wed, 07 May 2003 21:08:29 -0700 > > > > > >_______________ > > >Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > > >http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > ><< message5.txt >> > > > > > > -------- > -- > > On the move? Get Hotmail on your mobile phone > > > > To send an email to > - > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 11, 2003 What do you mean, Tom? " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette Rankin ----Original Message Follows---- " Vegecentric " <vegecentric Re: That's it. Sun, 11 May 2003 23:10:52 -0700 Ignorance is not bliss. Tom - " Danielle Kichler " <veggietart Saturday, May 10, 2003 7:10 PM Re: That's it. > There have been numerous myths about the menstruating woman. It was thought > her touch could sour milk, ruin crops, blah, blah. Some cultures had a hut > into which menstruating women would be sent; a former coworker would refer > to that time as " being in the hut. " While the idea of isolating a woman > 'cause she's bleeding is anathema to my feminist ideals, at least it got > them out of housework and childcare for three days! > > The Jewish religion is really wacky with regards to menstruation, as the > woman is considered " unclean, " and her husband is not allowed to touch > her--not even touch her--unless there has been no blood flow for a week, and > she has gone into the mikvah, the ritual bath. > > And people wonder why I'm so down on organized religion > > Danielle > > > > " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette Rankin > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > " Heartwork " <Heartwork > > > Re: That's it. > Sat, 10 May 2003 19:34:37 +0100 > > My only memories of women in the Bible were to say that when they were > menstruating they should be kept away from the normal dwelling, as though > dirty. That was the end of my Bible reading days. Christianity lost me > that day. > > Jo > > > For a more uplifting description of women, get a Bible, (a public library > should have one), find the book of Proverbs, (it's in the Old Testament), > turn to chapter 31, and read verses 10-31, especially 31.---This is known as > the description of " the virtuous woman. " Also, read the book of Esther in > its entirety. (It's also in the Old Testament, and fairly hort.) ----It's > basically the story of how one single woman saved an entire group of people > from total destruction. There's a lot more to read about women in the > Bible than people think. > > **Many apologies to others who think this list is turning into a Bible > class. As my point was only to enlighten, not preach. > > > > > > > > *This message was brought to you by: Amy > > " Danielle Kichler " > > > > > >Re: That's it. > >Thu, 08 May 2003 22:17:01 -0400 > > > >Interesting, the Eve bit--all women are evil and must be punished > because of > >Eve fell for the snake's line and tempted Adam. However, we don't get > >credit for the goodness of the Virgin Mary. > > > >Danielle > > > > > > > > " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette > Rankin > > > > > > > > > > > >----Original Message Follows---- > > " Catherine Harris " > > > > > >Re: That's it. > >Thu, 08 May 2003 12:24:16 +0000 > > > >_______________ > >MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > ><< message5.txt >> > > > -------- ---- > MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 11, 2003 Well, priests preying on kids is nothing new. I recently read an article about a bishop who actually tried to get a pedophile priest in his parish away from kids, but was fought at every turn by other bishops. This was in the 1950s--yes, the pure, wholesome 1950s, when bad shit happened, but nobody talked about it, swept it under the rug, pretended it didn't happen. Some people say this is a reason that priests should be allowed to marry. One letter writer said this is a good argument for ordaining women (statistics show the vast majority of child abusers are men, usually abuse victims themselves). In Baltimore, Maryland, last year, a man actually shot the priest who molested him a decade ago. To be fair, he did seek an apology, but since it wasn't forthcoming, well... Danielle " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette Rankin ----Original Message Follows---- " Vegecentric " <vegecentric Re: That's it. Sun, 11 May 2003 23:16:43 -0700 If the subject of all the Catholic priests charged & convicted of raping and molesting kids is raised (at least 50 in the last decade here in Oz, and increasing), my Mum denounces it all as a pack of anti-Catholic lies. None is so blind as those who will not see... Tom - " Danielle Kichler " <veggietart Saturday, May 10, 2003 8:20 AM Re: That's it. > For a lovely example of Catholic hypocrisy, get this: one of the many > colleges here in DC is Catholic University of America. Last year, Attorney > General John Ashcroft gave the commencement speech. This year, after > student protests, DC Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton was disinvited from > giving a talk at the school's book store because she is pro-choice, which we > all know runs counter to Catholic views. Ashcroft's enthusiastic support > for the death penalty--which I believe the Pope opposes--evidently was not > as important. Norton wasn't even going to discuss that; she was there > because a biography of her had been recently published. > > Danielle > > > > " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette Rankin > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > " Vegecentric " <vegecentric > > > Re: That's it. > Fri, 9 May 2003 20:37:39 -0700 > > I was raised strict catholic, and they are most conservative, hypocritcal > bunch of pricks you'll meet. The Pope apparently blessed the (fascist) > Italian troops before going to war (WW2). > > Tom > - > simonpjones > > Thursday, May 08, 2003 7:54 AM > Re: That's it. > > > > - > Catherine Harris > > Thursday, May 08, 2003 1:24 PM > Re: That's it. > > > . The sermon was about Genesis, and centred on the fact that women > deserve pain, suffering because they are full of sin and ate the apple, > > Did they actually mention an apple as there is no mention of apples in > bibles I've read? > > You must of went to a catholic church or an anglican church as they in > my experience don't even denounce war. > > Why they don't read the gospels and try to preach what is said in them, > is strange to say the least. > > Simon > > > " Danielle Kichler " > > > > > > >Re: That's it. > >Thu, 08 May 2003 07:49:30 -0400 > > > >I'm sorry if anything I've said could be construed as bashing > religion. I > >have just heard about too many horrible, horrible things done in the > name of > >religion over the millenia to not bash religion. I have also > experienced > >hostility at several points in my life because of my varying beliefs. > And I > >loathe organized religion's hostility toward women, a reason I have > >jettisoned the whole business. > > > >Veganism is based in compassion; organized religion talks compassion, > but I > >sure don't see a whole lot of it from so-called religious leaders. And > >while there are animal rights activists who do some horrible things, > they > >cannot compare to the slaughter perpetuated in the name of religion. > > > >Danielle > > > > > > " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette > Rankin > > > > > > > > > > > >----Original Message Follows---- > > " Amylia F " > > > > > > That's it. > >Wed, 07 May 2003 21:08:29 -0700 > > > >_______________ > >Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > >http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > ><< message5.txt >> > > > -------- -- > On the move? Get Hotmail on your mobile phone > > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 11, 2003 Hi Tom This is something that conspiracy theorists have been saying for a while, but obviously the problem is with the priesthood, not the followers. Jo As far as I'm concerned, notwithstanding all the genuinely good religious people out there working hands-on to help others, the Catholic Church, as a proven aider and abetter of pedophiles, is a criminal organisation run by criminals or their friends (eg the Melbourne Arch Bishop once appeared as a character witness for a priest and serial pedophile - he raped his nephew amongst others - in a court case in which the priest was convicted and jailed (no thanks to the Church, of course). ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release 18/04/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 11, 2003 I have Catholic friends and find them vaguely similar to Pagans - we both do candle magic! Jo > When I hear talk of Christianity..Catholicism dosn't come to mind. > > No disrespect to anyone who is seeking the truth and are with the Catholic > church. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release 18/04/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 11, 2003 > There have been numerous myths about the menstruating woman. It was thought > her touch could sour milk, ruin crops, blah, blah. Some people say that women are far more in touch with the natural energies when they are menstruating, and that they were separated from the rest of society (the other 49%!) because of their power at this time. > The Jewish religion is really wacky with regards to menstruation, as the > woman is considered " unclean, " and her husband is not allowed to touch > her--not even touch her--unless there has been no blood flow for a week, and > she has gone into the mikvah, the ritual bath. Sounds silly to me and also a way to cut the number of babies born. Anyway, I am not Jewish so will not need to worry about that idea. Jo > > And people wonder why I'm so down on organized religion > > Danielle > > > > " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette Rankin > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > " Heartwork " <Heartwork > > > Re: That's it. > Sat, 10 May 2003 19:34:37 +0100 > > My only memories of women in the Bible were to say that when they were > menstruating they should be kept away from the normal dwelling, as though > dirty. That was the end of my Bible reading days. Christianity lost me > that day. > > Jo > > > For a more uplifting description of women, get a Bible, (a public library > should have one), find the book of Proverbs, (it's in the Old Testament), > turn to chapter 31, and read verses 10-31, especially 31.---This is known as > the description of " the virtuous woman. " Also, read the book of Esther in > its entirety. (It's also in the Old Testament, and fairly hort.) ----It's > basically the story of how one single woman saved an entire group of people > from total destruction. There's a lot more to read about women in the > Bible than people think. > > **Many apologies to others who think this list is turning into a Bible > class. As my point was only to enlighten, not preach. > *This message was brought to you by: Amy > > " Danielle Kichler " > > > > > >Re: That's it. > >Thu, 08 May 2003 22:17:01 -0400 > > > >Interesting, the Eve bit--all women are evil and must be punished > because of > >Eve fell for the snake's line and tempted Adam. However, we don't get > >credit for the goodness of the Virgin Mary. > > > >Danielle > > > > > > > > " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette > Rankin > > > > > > > > > > > >----Original Message Follows---- > > " Catherine Harris " > > > > > >Re: That's it. > >Thu, 08 May 2003 12:24:16 +0000 > > > >_______________ > >MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > ><< message5.txt >> > > > -------- ---- > MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 11, 2003 Hi Tom > As far as I'm concerned, notwithstanding all the genuinely good religious people out there working hands-on to help others, the > Catholic Church, as a proven aider and abetter of pedophiles, is a criminal organisation run by criminals or their friends (eg the > Melbourne Arch Bishop once appeared as a character witness for a priest and serial pedophile - he raped his nephew amongst > others - in a court case in which the priest was convicted and jailed (no thanks to the Church, of course). This, of course, is the best reason to not support the current Catholic heirarchy - but it doesn't mean that Catholocisim is inherently evil - it means that the people who are using it as their power base are (for the most part) very nasty pieces of work. The problem is groups like Opus Dei and P2 who have way too much control in the Vatican, and basically installed the current Pope after killing the last one (shame about that, as I suspect the Catholic church would be *very* different now if John Paul I hadn't been murdered). BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release 18/04/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 11, 2003 Hi Simon > When I hear talk of Christianity..Catholicism dosn't come to mind. I must admit I tend to agree with you. To my mind, Christianity immediately brings up images of C of E in my mind - but that's probably because C of E is the dominant religion in England, so that's what we tend to get bombarded with! BB Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release 18/04/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 11, 2003 i used to work wit a rastafarian woman whosaid her religon ment that she was considered unclean during menstruation, and thus her partner moved out of the house for that week, leaving her to cope wit three kids, alone......... catherine >"Heartwork" > > >Re: That's it. >Sun, 11 May 2003 17:56:12 +0100 > > > > > There have been numerous myths about the menstruating woman. It was >thought > > her touch could sour milk, ruin crops, blah, blah. > >Some people say that women are far more in touch with the natural energies >when they are menstruating, and that they were separated from the rest of >society (the other 49%!) because of their power at this time. > > > The Jewish religion is really wacky with regards to menstruation, as the > > woman is considered "unclean," and her husband is not allowed to touch > > her--not even touch her--unless there has been no blood flow for a week, >and > > she has gone into the mikvah, the ritual bath. > >Sounds silly to me and also a way to cut the number of babies born. Anyway, >I am not Jewish so will not need to worry about that idea. > >Jo > > > > And people wonder why I'm so down on organized religion > > > > Danielle > > > > > > > > "You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake"--Jeanette >Rankin > > > > > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > "Heartwork" > > > > > > Re: That's it. > > Sat, 10 May 2003 19:34:37 +0100 > > > > My only memories of women in the Bible were to say that when they were > > menstruating they should be kept away from the normal dwelling, as though > > dirty. That was the end of my Bible reading days. Christianity lost me > > that day. > > > > Jo > > > > > > For a more uplifting description of women, get a Bible, (a public >library > > should have one), find the book of Proverbs, (it's in the Old Testament), > > turn to chapter 31, and read verses 10-31, especially 31.---This is known >as > > the description of "the virtuous woman." Also, read the book of Esther >in > > its entirety. (It's also in the Old Testament, and fairly >hort.) ----It's > > basically the story of how one single woman saved an entire group of >people > > from total destruction. There's a lot more to read about women in the > > Bible than people think. > > > > **Many apologies to others who think this list is turning into a Bible > > class. As my point was only to enlighten, not preach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *This message was brought to you by: Amy > > >"Danielle Kichler" > > > > > > > > >Re: That's it. > > >Thu, 08 May 2003 22:17:01 -0400 > > > > > >Interesting, the Eve bit--all women are evil and must be punished > > because of > > >Eve fell for the snake's line and tempted Adam. However, we don't get > > >credit for the goodness of the Virgin Mary. > > > > > >Danielle > > > > > > > > > > > >"You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake"--Jeanette > > Rankin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----Original Message Follows---- > > >"Catherine Harris" > > > > > > > > >Re: That's it. > > >Thu, 08 May 2003 12:24:16 +0000 > > > > > >_______________ > > >MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > > >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > ><< message5.txt >> > > > > > > -------- >---- > > MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 11, 2003 Sounds like an excuse for laziness to me. Does love not play any part in these 'marriages'? Jo i used to work wit a rastafarian woman whosaid her religon ment that she was considered unclean during menstruation, and thus her partner moved out of the house for that week, leaving her to cope wit three kids, alone......... ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release 18/04/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 11, 2003 Hi Danielle > In Baltimore, Maryland, last year, a man actually shot the priest who > molested him a decade ago. To be fair, he did seek an apology, but since it > wasn't forthcoming, well... While I'm not generally in favour of any form of violence - I think it seems perfectly reasonable to shoot someone who has sexually assaulted you as a child! BB Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release 18/04/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 11, 2003 Hi Catherine > i used to work wit a rastafarian woman whosaid her religon ment that she was considered unclean during menstruation, and > thus her partner moved out of the house for that week, leaving her to cope wit three kids, alone......... So, following his logic through to it's conclusion.... it was OK to leave his kids with someone "unclean"????? BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release 18/04/03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 11, 2003 yep peter thats true............just an excuse to go and live wth other woman for a week........lol catherine >"Peter" > > >Re: That's it. >Sun, 11 May 2003 22:39:25 +0100 > >Hi Catherine > > > i used to work wit a rastafarian woman whosaid her religon ment that she was considered unclean during menstruation, and > > thus her partner moved out of the house for that week, leaving her to cope wit three kids, alone......... > >So, following his logic through to it's conclusion.... it was OK to leave his kids with someone "unclean"????? > >BB >Peter > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release 18/04/03 Protect your PC from e-mail viruses. Get MSN 8 today. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 11, 2003 hi jo, whats love got to do with some mens attitude to housework and childcare??.......whats considered womens work is invisible, unpaid and undervalued, so why would a man want to take it on? catherine >"Heartwork" > > >Re: That's it. >Sun, 11 May 2003 22:19:59 +0100 > >Sounds like an excuse for laziness to me. Does love not play any part in these 'marriages'? > >Jo > i used to work wit a rastafarian woman whosaid her religon ment that she was considered unclean during menstruation, and thus her partner moved out of the house for that week, leaving her to cope wit three kids, alone......... > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release 18/04/03 Want your email in a hurry? Get Hotmail direct to your mobile Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 12, 2003 Jo, I'm worried that there are some *parishioners* who would support a priest against whom allegations had been made. They would rather blame the victim than the abuser. There is a problem when parishioners don't say, " Stop sweeping this under the rug, get out the sex offenders. " There's a problem when Oklahoma Governor Frank Keating, a Catholic, is blasted for suggesting Catholics stop tithing and stop going to church if their bishop aids and abets pedophiles. Someone suggested he was encouraging people to commit mortal sins; I say it's a greater moral sin to allow a sick man access to children! Danielle " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette Rankin ----Original Message Follows---- " Heartwork " <Heartwork Re: That's it. Sun, 11 May 2003 17:49:46 +0100 Hi Tom This is something that conspiracy theorists have been saying for a while, but obviously the problem is with the priesthood, not the followers. Jo As far as I'm concerned, notwithstanding all the genuinely good religious people out there working hands-on to help others, the Catholic Church, as a proven aider and abetter of pedophiles, is a criminal organisation run by criminals or their friends (eg the Melbourne Arch Bishop once appeared as a character witness for a priest and serial pedophile - he raped his nephew amongst others - in a court case in which the priest was convicted and jailed (no thanks to the Church, of course). --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release 18/04/03 _______________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 12, 2003 Actually, Jo, it was designed to increase the number of babies born; a woman is usually most fertile seven days after menstruation ceases. The rule is designed to discourage intercourse when they are less likely to conceive. Danielle " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette Rankin ----Original Message Follows---- " Heartwork " <Heartwork Re: That's it. Sun, 11 May 2003 17:56:12 +0100 > There have been numerous myths about the menstruating woman. It was thought > her touch could sour milk, ruin crops, blah, blah. Some people say that women are far more in touch with the natural energies when they are menstruating, and that they were separated from the rest of society (the other 49%!) because of their power at this time. > The Jewish religion is really wacky with regards to menstruation, as the > woman is considered " unclean, " and her husband is not allowed to touch > her--not even touch her--unless there has been no blood flow for a week, and > she has gone into the mikvah, the ritual bath. Sounds silly to me and also a way to cut the number of babies born. Anyway, I am not Jewish so will not need to worry about that idea. Jo > > And people wonder why I'm so down on organized religion > > Danielle > > > > " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette Rankin > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > " Heartwork " <Heartwork > > > Re: That's it. > Sat, 10 May 2003 19:34:37 +0100 > > My only memories of women in the Bible were to say that when they were > menstruating they should be kept away from the normal dwelling, as though > dirty. That was the end of my Bible reading days. Christianity lost me > that day. > > Jo > > > For a more uplifting description of women, get a Bible, (a public library > should have one), find the book of Proverbs, (it's in the Old Testament), > turn to chapter 31, and read verses 10-31, especially 31.---This is known as > the description of " the virtuous woman. " Also, read the book of Esther in > its entirety. (It's also in the Old Testament, and fairly hort.) ----It's > basically the story of how one single woman saved an entire group of people > from total destruction. There's a lot more to read about women in the > Bible than people think. > > **Many apologies to others who think this list is turning into a Bible > class. As my point was only to enlighten, not preach. > > > > > > > > *This message was brought to you by: Amy > > " Danielle Kichler " > > > > > >Re: That's it. > >Thu, 08 May 2003 22:17:01 -0400 > > > >Interesting, the Eve bit--all women are evil and must be punished > because of > >Eve fell for the snake's line and tempted Adam. However, we don't get > >credit for the goodness of the Virgin Mary. > > > >Danielle > > > > > > > > " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette > Rankin > > > > > > > > > > > >----Original Message Follows---- > > " Catherine Harris " > > > > > >Re: That's it. > >Thu, 08 May 2003 12:24:16 +0000 > > > >_______________ > >MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > ><< message5.txt >> > > > -------- ---- > MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 12, 2003 hi jo and danielle, and i go back to my point that where is the respect for children, for child protection, for beleiving children who have been abused.............it cant be left up to organisations run mostly by celibate men to sort out etc........... and celibacy, cant they se that its a crap idea? adult men should be able to control them selves, but how many children, housekeepers of priests, women in relationships with priests have to be hurt before the world wakes up?????? the women have to fight for the children catherine >"Danielle Kichler" > > >Re: That's it. >Sun, 11 May 2003 23:06:23 -0400 > >Jo, > >I'm worried that there are some *parishioners* who would support a priest >against whom allegations had been made. They would rather blame the victim >than the abuser. There is a problem when parishioners don't say, "Stop >sweeping this under the rug, get out the sex offenders." There's a problem >when Oklahoma Governor Frank Keating, a Catholic, is blasted for suggesting >Catholics stop tithing and stop going to church if their bishop aids and >abets pedophiles. Someone suggested he was encouraging people to commit >mortal sins; I say it's a greater moral sin to allow a sick man access to >children! > >Danielle > > > >"You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake"--Jeanette Rankin > > > > > >----Original Message Follows---- >"Heartwork" > > >Re: That's it. >Sun, 11 May 2003 17:49:46 +0100 > >Hi Tom > >This is something that conspiracy theorists have been saying for a while, >but obviously the problem is with the priesthood, not the followers. > >Jo > > As far as I'm concerned, notwithstanding all the genuinely good religious >people out there working hands-on to help others, the Catholic Church, as a >proven aider and abetter of pedophiles, is a criminal organisation run by >criminals or their friends (eg the Melbourne Arch Bishop once appeared as a >character witness for a priest and serial pedophile - he raped his nephew >amongst others - in a court case in which the priest was convicted and >jailed (no thanks to the Church, of course). > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release 18/04/03 > >_______________ >Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > Want your email in a hurry? Get Hotmail direct to your mobile Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 12, 2003 poor women, pushed into conception when the rules arent made by them........the rhythym method is better..........a woman can control when she knows shes fertile and et adept at avoiding sex............i tried it for 3 years.........lol catherine >"Danielle Kichler" > > >Re: That's it. >Sun, 11 May 2003 23:09:54 -0400 > >Actually, Jo, it was designed to increase the number of babies born; a woman >is usually most fertile seven days after menstruation ceases. The rule is >designed to discourage intercourse when they are less likely to conceive. > >Danielle > > > >"You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake"--Jeanette Rankin > > > > > >----Original Message Follows---- >"Heartwork" > > >Re: That's it. >Sun, 11 May 2003 17:56:12 +0100 > > > > > There have been numerous myths about the menstruating woman. It was >thought > > her touch could sour milk, ruin crops, blah, blah. > >Some people say that women are far more in touch with the natural energies >when they are menstruating, and that they were separated from the rest of >society (the other 49%!) because of their power at this time. > > > The Jewish religion is really wacky with regards to menstruation, as the > > woman is considered "unclean," and her husband is not allowed to touch > > her--not even touch her--unless there has been no blood flow for a week, >and > > she has gone into the mikvah, the ritual bath. > >Sounds silly to me and also a way to cut the number of babies born. Anyway, >I am not Jewish so will not need to worry about that idea. > >Jo > > > > And people wonder why I'm so down on organized religion > > > > Danielle > > > > > > > > "You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake"--Jeanette >Rankin > > > > > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > "Heartwork" > > > > > > Re: That's it. > > Sat, 10 May 2003 19:34:37 +0100 > > > > My only memories of women in the Bible were to say that when they were > > menstruating they should be kept away from the normal dwelling, as though > > dirty. That was the end of my Bible reading days. Christianity lost me > > that day. > > > > Jo > > > > > > For a more uplifting description of women, get a Bible, (a public >library > > should have one), find the book of Proverbs, (it's in the Old Testament), > > turn to chapter 31, and read verses 10-31, especially 31.---This is known >as > > the description of "the virtuous woman." Also, read the book of Esther >in > > its entirety. (It's also in the Old Testament, and fairly >hort.) ----It's > > basically the story of how one single woman saved an entire group of >people > > from total destruction. There's a lot more to read about women in the > > Bible than people think. > > > > **Many apologies to others who think this list is turning into a Bible > > class. As my point was only to enlighten, not preach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *This message was brought to you by: Amy > > >"Danielle Kichler" > > > > > > > > >Re: That's it. > > >Thu, 08 May 2003 22:17:01 -0400 > > > > > >Interesting, the Eve bit--all women are evil and must be punished > > because of > > >Eve fell for the snake's line and tempted Adam. However, we don't get > > >credit for the goodness of the Virgin Mary. > > > > > >Danielle > > > > > > > > > > > >"You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake"--Jeanette > > Rankin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----Original Message Follows---- > > >"Catherine Harris" > > > > > > > > >Re: That's it. > > >Thu, 08 May 2003 12:24:16 +0000 > > > > > >_______________ > > >MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > > >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > ><< message5.txt >> > > > > > > >-------- >---- > > MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 12, 2003 The shooter in question was 14 when the abuse began and 17 when it ended; he's 27 now. The priest was not removed from service, so to speak, until 1998. Danielle " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette Rankin ----Original Message Follows---- " Peter " <Snowbow Re: That's it. Sun, 11 May 2003 22:25:05 +0100 Hi Danielle > In Baltimore, Maryland, last year, a man actually shot the priest who > molested him a decade ago. To be fair, he did seek an apology, but since it > wasn't forthcoming, well... While I'm not generally in favour of any form of violence - I think it seems perfectly reasonable to shoot someone who has sexually assaulted you as a child! BB Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release 18/04/03 _______________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 12, 2003 Ignorance is not bliss. Tom - " Danielle Kichler " <veggietart Saturday, May 10, 2003 7:10 PM Re: That's it. > There have been numerous myths about the menstruating woman. It was thought > her touch could sour milk, ruin crops, blah, blah. Some cultures had a hut > into which menstruating women would be sent; a former coworker would refer > to that time as " being in the hut. " While the idea of isolating a woman > 'cause she's bleeding is anathema to my feminist ideals, at least it got > them out of housework and childcare for three days! > > The Jewish religion is really wacky with regards to menstruation, as the > woman is considered " unclean, " and her husband is not allowed to touch > her--not even touch her--unless there has been no blood flow for a week, and > she has gone into the mikvah, the ritual bath. > > And people wonder why I'm so down on organized religion > > Danielle > > > > " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette Rankin > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > " Heartwork " <Heartwork > > > Re: That's it. > Sat, 10 May 2003 19:34:37 +0100 > > My only memories of women in the Bible were to say that when they were > menstruating they should be kept away from the normal dwelling, as though > dirty. That was the end of my Bible reading days. Christianity lost me > that day. > > Jo > > > For a more uplifting description of women, get a Bible, (a public library > should have one), find the book of Proverbs, (it's in the Old Testament), > turn to chapter 31, and read verses 10-31, especially 31.---This is known as > the description of " the virtuous woman. " Also, read the book of Esther in > its entirety. (It's also in the Old Testament, and fairly hort.) ----It's > basically the story of how one single woman saved an entire group of people > from total destruction. There's a lot more to read about women in the > Bible than people think. > > **Many apologies to others who think this list is turning into a Bible > class. As my point was only to enlighten, not preach. > *This message was brought to you by: Amy > > " Danielle Kichler " > > > > > >Re: That's it. > >Thu, 08 May 2003 22:17:01 -0400 > > > >Interesting, the Eve bit--all women are evil and must be punished > because of > >Eve fell for the snake's line and tempted Adam. However, we don't get > >credit for the goodness of the Virgin Mary. > > > >Danielle > > > > > > > > " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette > Rankin > > > > > > > > > > > >----Original Message Follows---- > > " Catherine Harris " > > > > > >Re: That's it. > >Thu, 08 May 2003 12:24:16 +0000 > > > >_______________ > >MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > ><< message5.txt >> > > > -------- ---- > MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 12, 2003 Apart from abstinence, the only truly safe sex is Immaculate Conception - just ask Mary. Tom - " Heartwork " <Heartwork Saturday, May 10, 2003 11:30 AM Re: That's it. > Maybe it is okay in the Catholic religion - after all it is only a > representation, an archetype - something to concentrate the mind on an idea. > > Jo > > The Catholic church holds mary probably higher then Jesus in some ways. > When > > I was a kid my Nan use to make me knee in front of a statue of Mary both > > morning and night to say prays before bed. I know she ment well Human > made > > things shouldn't be worshipped > > > > > > > Danielle > > > > > > > > > > > > " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette > > Rankin> > > > > > But you can stop a war more easierly than an earthquake > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > > " Catherine Harris " <cait2 > > > > > > > > > Re: That's it. > > > Thu, 08 May 2003 12:24:16 +0000 > > > > > > _______________ > > > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > > > > > > > > To send an email to - > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
