That's it.

May 8, 2003

Okay. I am the one who started this, so here I go: I brought up fruitarianism, just to get some input. I had been considering trying it, and just wanted some feedback. Then one person replied to me. I replied, to her reply, through this group's email list. (Now, I almost wish I had responded to her reply through her own personal email address instead.) In my reply, I simply said, I was considering fruitarianism, because that's how things were in th Garden of Eden, with Adam and Eve. I said, I wasn't trying to preach. I said, I wasn't trying to get too religious, only reveal my personal beliefs. Now, the comments being made don't even have anything to do with the original subject, but instead have become insulting to at least my beliefs.-----Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, we're all mature adults, and should be able to handle criticism, etc. And afterall, I did post my reply for all to see. Still, how can the same people who are criticized for being vegan, turn around and criticize other people?--(God, Christians, etc.) ----Isn't the reason why some meat-eaters are anti-vegan because they don't understand where vegans are coming from? They don't give vegans a chance to explain their beliefs, or don't care? Well, some vegans, in a similar way, react the same way to religion. And you know what? It's sad.----We're vegans. We're supposed to be different from other people. Even if you are not on some personal mission to turn as many meat-eaters into vegans as you possibly can, you're different. YOU DON'T EAT ANIMALS! And believe it or not, this can affect everything. We're supposed to care more about the environment, people, the world, along with animals. We're not like everyone else. We never eat meat!! Instead we're sickened by the way animals are treated, shocked by the people who make a living by testing on them, slaughtering them, and selling their body parts. And we know what it's like to live in a world that laughs and mocks us, because our beliefs are not the same as many other people in this world. So, why oh why, are vegans shooting down other spiritual/religious beliefs?---What kind of message does that send to other vegans, or would-be-vegans? Think about it. If you simply must vent about being anti-religious, maybe you should exchange personal email addresses with one another, and do it that way. (As opposed to subjecting everyone else to your venting.) Or join an additional on-line group, specializing in religion-bashing. So,...... that's it. I'm done. Goodnight.

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May 8, 2003

I'm sorry if anything I've said could be construed as bashing religion. I

have just heard about too many horrible, horrible things done in the name of

religion over the millenia to not bash religion. I have also experienced

hostility at several points in my life because of my varying beliefs. And I

loathe organized religion's hostility toward women, a reason I have

jettisoned the whole business.

Veganism is based in compassion; organized religion talks compassion, but I

sure don't see a whole lot of it from so-called religious leaders. And

while there are animal rights activists who do some horrible things, they

cannot compare to the slaughter perpetuated in the name of religion.

Danielle

" You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette Rankin

----Original Message Follows----

" Amylia F " <amylia_21

That's it.

Wed, 07 May 2003 21:08:29 -0700

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Okay. I am the one who started this, so here I go: I brought up fruitarianism, just to get some input. I had been considering trying it, and just wanted some feedback. Then one person replied to me. I replied, to her reply, through this group's email list. (Now, I almost wish I had responded to her reply through her own personal email address instead.) In my reply, I simply said, I was considering fruitarianism, because that's how things were in th Garden of Eden, with Adam and Eve. I said, I wasn't trying to preach. I said, I wasn't trying to get too religious, only reveal my personal beliefs. Now, the comments being made don't even have anything to do with the original subject, but instead have become insulting to at least my beliefs.-----Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, we're all mature adults, and should be able to handle criticism, etc. And afterall, I did post my reply for all to see. Still, how can the same people who are criticized for being vegan, turn around and criticize other people?--(God, Christians, etc.) ----Isn't the reason why some meat-eaters are anti-vegan because they don't understand where vegans are coming from? They don't give vegans a chance to explain their beliefs, or don't care? Well, some vegans, in a similar way, react the same way to religion. And you know what? It's sad.----We're vegans. We're supposed to be different from other people. Even if you are not on some personal mission to turn as many meat-eaters into vegans as you possibly can, you're different. YOU DON'T EAT ANIMALS! And believe it or not, this can affect everything. We're supposed to care more about the environment, people, the world, along with animals. We're not like everyone else. We never eat meat!! Instead we're sickened by the way animals are treated, shocked by the people who make a living by testing on them, slaughtering them, and selling their body parts. And we know what it's like to live in a world that laughs and mocks us, because our beliefs are not the same as many other people in this world. So, why oh why, are vegans shooting down other spiritual/religious beliefs?---What kind of message does that send to other vegans, or would-be-vegans? Think about it. If you simply must vent about being anti-religious, maybe you should exchange personal email addresses with one another, and do it that way. (As opposed to subjecting everyone else to your venting.) Or join an additional on-line group, specializing in religion-bashing. So,...... that's it. I'm done. Goodnight.

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May 8, 2003

Hi,

Personally I'm glad the discussion, and its ramifications, remained on list

instead of going private, as it has been interesting. Granted, I'd rather it

had remained less critical and more constructive with regard to religious

believes, but even so, compared to many lists where a religious debate would

have deteriorated into flaming days ago, everyone seems remarkably friendly

and polite.

Perhaps it is because I'm an argumentative chap at heart, but I enjoy

reading and being involved in debates, and enjoy that about this list almost

as much as the support it provides in being vegan.

John

-

" Amylia F " <amylia_21

Thursday, May 08, 2003 5:08 AM

That's it.

> Okay. I am the one who started this, so here I go: I brought up

fruitarianism, just to get some input. I had been considering trying it,

and just wanted some feedback. Then one person replied to me. I replied,

to her reply, through this group's email list. (Now, I almost wish I had

responded to her reply through her own personal email address instead.) In

my reply, I simply said, I was considering fruitarianism, because that's how

things were in th Garden of Eden, with Adam and Eve. I said, I wasn't

trying to preach. I said, I wasn't trying to get too religious, only reveal

my personal beliefs. Now, the comments being made don't even have anything

to do with the original subject, but instead have become insulting to at

least my beliefs.-----Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, we're all mature adults, and

should be able to handle criticism, etc. And afterall, I did post my reply

for all to see. Still, how can the same people who are criticized for being

vegan, turn around and criticize other people?--(God, Christians,

etc.) ----Isn't the reason why some meat-eaters are anti-vegan because they

don't understand where vegans are coming from? They don't give vegans a

chance to explain their beliefs, or don't care? Well, some vegans, in a

similar way, react the same way to religion. And you know what? It's

sad.----We're vegans. We're supposed to be different from other people.

Even if you are not on some personal mission to turn as many meat-eaters

into vegans as you possibly can, you're different. YOU DON'T EAT ANIMALS!

And believe it or not, this can affect everything. We're supposed to care

more about the environment, people, the world, along with animals. We're

not like everyone else. We never eat meat!! Instead we're sickened by the

way animals are treated, shocked by the people who make a living by testing

on them, slaughtering them, and selling their body parts. And we know what

it's like to live in a world that laughs and mocks us, because our beliefs

are not the same as many other people in this world. So, why oh why, are

vegans shooting down other spiritual/religious beliefs?---What kind of

message does that send to other vegans, or would-be-vegans? Think about it.

If you simply must vent about being anti-religious, maybe you should

exchange personal email addresses with one another, and do it that way. (As

opposed to subjecting everyone else to your venting.) Or join an additional

on-line group, specializing in religion-bashing. So,...... that's it. I'm

done. Goodnight.

--------

------

> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*

>

May 8, 2003

hi danielle,

i agree with you wholeheartedly. i was brought up in a christian home, and know people who are genuinely kind and loving like my gran...but also ihave seen in the world that religon has been used to justify some of the most evil things perpetrated upon other humans........the bible has been used to justify;

slavery..eg killing 3 million people in sailing across the atlantic

killing women who were different or questioning, calling them witches several million in europe at least

anti semitism genocide killing 12 million people in europe during the second world warapartheid basing racist ideas on religeous ideology

mysogyny eg women being raped by their husbands in the name of their rights domestic violence

child abuse eg spare the rod and spare the child, no where in the bible does it say respect your child, only respect you parents

homophobia people being treated with violence and discrimination

And religon today is not any more aware.......I went with a relative to church 6 months ago, because they were ill and needed support. The sermon was about Genesis, and centred on the fact that women deserve pain, suffering because they are full of sin and ate the apple, I had to pinch myself....is this 2002? I asked myself, is this Britain or Afghanistan?

take care all

catherine

>"Danielle Kichler"

> > >Re: That's it. >Thu, 08 May 2003 07:49:30 -0400 > >I'm sorry if anything I've said could be construed as bashing religion. I >have just heard about too many horrible, horrible things done in the name of >religion over the millenia to not bash religion. I have also experienced >hostility at several points in my life because of my varying beliefs. And I >loathe organized religion's hostility toward women, a reason I have >jettisoned the whole business. > >Veganism is based in compassion; organized religion talks compassion, but I >sure don't see a whole lot of it from so-called religious leaders. And >while there are animal rights activists who do some horrible things, they >cannot compare to the slaughter perpetuated in the name of religion. > >Danielle > > >"You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake"--Jeanette Rankin > > > > > >----Original Message Follows---- >"Amylia F"

> > > That's it. >Wed, 07 May 2003 21:08:29 -0700 > >_______________ >Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online >http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ><< message5.txt >> On the move? Get Hotmail on your mobile phone

May 8, 2003

-

Catherine Harris

Thursday, May 08, 2003 1:24 PM

Re: That's it.

.. The sermon was about Genesis, and centred on the fact that women deserve pain, suffering because they are full of sin and ate the apple,

Did they actually mention an apple as there is no mention of apples in bibles I've read?

You must of went to a catholic church or an anglican church as they in my experience don't even denounce war.

Why they don't read the gospels and try to preach what is said in them, is strange to say the least.

Simon

>"Danielle Kichler"

> > >Re: That's it. >Thu, 08 May 2003 07:49:30 -0400 > >I'm sorry if anything I've said could be construed as bashing religion. I >have just heard about too many horrible, horrible things done in the name of >religion over the millenia to not bash religion. I have also experienced >hostility at several points in my life because of my varying beliefs. And I >loathe organized religion's hostility toward women, a reason I have >jettisoned the whole business. > >Veganism is based in compassion; organized religion talks compassion, but I >sure don't see a whole lot of it from so-called religious leaders. And >while there are animal rights activists who do some horrible things, they >cannot compare to the slaughter perpetuated in the name of religion. > >Danielle > > >"You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake"--Jeanette Rankin > > > > > >----Original Message Follows---- >"Amylia F"

> > > That's it. >Wed, 07 May 2003 21:08:29 -0700 > >_______________ >Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online >http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ><< message5.txt >>

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May 9, 2003

Interesting, the Eve bit--all women are evil and must be punished because of

Eve fell for the snake's line and tempted Adam. However, we don't get

credit for the goodness of the Virgin Mary.

Danielle

" You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette Rankin

----Original Message Follows----

" Catherine Harris " <cait2

Re: That's it.

Thu, 08 May 2003 12:24:16 +0000

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