Environmentalists Against the War

January 22, 2003

Danielle,

> They're both at fault.

I couldn't agree more!

>

Also, she appears

> to be the polar opposite of his wife, so you gotta wonder if other

forces

> weren't working--his desire for something totally different.

And I think that is usually how affairs happen - if we are unhappy

with whom we are with, we very rarely stray towards the exact same

thing

>>That said, I'm

> glad she's doing well; at least she didn't let this destroy her

life.

>

I'm not sure about her life tho - unfortunately she is forever

branded - and we humans rarely let scandals go

And I remember seeing the show she did where she sat and discussed

the whole thing with an auditorium of law students and thinking to

myself that I could never do that. It would have been bad enough i

was dragged into the limelight once, but then to do an HBO special on

it is another thing.

I just hope that she can carry on without the celebrity spotlight if

that is what she so wishes. And that the rest of us can move past

this and on to more pressing issues. It's amazing how the media can

tear our thoughts away from the things that really matter by tossing

in scandal. And we readily eat it up and pass it along.

Nikki

January 22, 2003

>It's amazing how the media can

> tear our thoughts away from the things that really matter by tossing

> in scandal. And we readily eat it up and pass it along.

The politicians and the main media people are brewed in the same pot.

Sadly, the diversion tactics do seem to work.

Jo

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January 22, 2003

, EBbrewpunx@c... wrote:

> *shrug*

> i knew ya would nikki...

>

Uh Oh!

Am I becoming predictable now too?!

egads!

> i know yer feelins fer the clinton boi...

> personally, wot he did was wrong, but absolutely pales in

<comparrison to wot the current admin does

> and ya know wot, ALL OF EM DO IT!! you couldn't tell me of one US

>administration that didn't do something outlandish er sets my teeth

>on edge..sure, some were better then others, but all had failings

>and tried to control folks and all that there....

I agree - they are all crooks, tho some have done some great things,

it all boils down to trying to pick the lesser evil and we don't

always succeed at that

> clinton just had a downhomesy feel to him, and made lip service to

>certain causes near and dear to my heart...

Did he follow thru on those causes? Or just lip service?

and this is an honest question, not a jab at him

> he's spells environment, either O I L er E N R O N

>

I agree - unfortunately the majority of the politicians spell

everything in terms of who will support me the most and pay the most

money into my pocket

<sigh>

we need fresh blood, unfortunately they wouldn't make it to the

ballot much less the office

nikki

January 22, 2003

> Did he follow thru on those causes? Or just lip service?

> and this is an honest question, not a jab at him

It's the same here with Blair, although I think his follow through on green

policy is a bit better than Bush's. I think it was just lip service with

banning fox hunting though.

Jo

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January 22, 2003

Good Morning / Afternoon / Evening Jo!

I couldn't agree more! They work all too well.

Who's JLo marrying this week? Did you see the dress so and so wore at

the awards? Whats her name was pictured drunk in public...

Eventually it all blends into the sound of white noise (good album by

the way) and we all still listen

yada yada yada

nikki

, " Heartwork " <Heartwork@b...> wrote:

> >It's amazing how the media can

> > tear our thoughts away from the things that really matter by

tossing

> > in scandal. And we readily eat it up and pass it along.

>

> The politicians and the main media people are brewed in the same

pot.

> Sadly, the diversion tactics do seem to work.

>

> Jo

>

> 30/12/02

January 22, 2003

Jo and Peter,

Honestly, what is it that makes Blair so dedicated to us? Not that we

Americans do not appreciate the support of the UK, but he never

falters from us. And we are not always right, I know, hard to believe.

And I don't mean to sound critical or anything, just really

interested in yer opinions on this.

It confuses me.

nikki

, " Heartwork " <Heartwork@b...> wrote:

>

> > Did he follow thru on those causes? Or just lip service?

> > and this is an honest question, not a jab at him

>

> It's the same here with Blair, although I think his follow through

on green

> policy is a bit better than Bush's. I think it was just lip

service with

> banning fox hunting though.

>

> Jo

>

January 22, 2003

Thank you, Nikki.

I just read that polls indicate support declining for attacking Iraq. Most

people polled favor giving UN inspectors more time. OK, I don't put much

stock in polls, especially the ones showing high approval ratings for Smirky

Shrubster, but it's still encouraging.

A more accurate reading is how many people show up to say, " This war is

wrong. "

Danielle

----Original Message Follows----

" nikki_mackovitch <nikkimack " <nikkimack

Re: Environmentalists Against the War

Wed, 22 Jan 2003 10:49:16 -0000

Good Morning Danielle!

I think that is absolutely wonderful and spirit lifting!

What amazes me is that every time we protest these things, the media

looks in wonder and comments on how amazed they are at the amount of

people who show up. As if they never expected so many people to

protest something.

Thanks for being one of those great people!

Nikki

, " Danielle Kichler "

<veggietart@h...> wrote:

> Washington, DC, in January--that would be 20s fahrenheit. I'm a

Yank, so

> that's how I measure things. Maybe I should have said well below

freezing.

> That really makes it amazing: how many people are willing to go

out in

> freezing weather to protest this stupid oil war.

>

> Danielle

>

" Where is the questioning where is the protest song?

Since when is skepticism un-American?

Dissent's not treason but they talk like it's the same

Those who disagree are afraid to show their face " --Sleater-Kinney

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January 22, 2003

Jo,

I don't know for sure about that. Still, even if only part of the US uses

solar, that would reduce need for polluting forms of energy, right? If cars

were made even slightly more fuel-efficient, that would reduce or eliminate

our dependence on foreign oil. If we can't eliminate completely the bad

stuff, at least we can greatly reduce it.

Danielle

----Original Message Follows----

" Heartwork " <Heartwork

Re: Environmentalists Against the War

Wed, 22 Jan 2003 09:43:06 -0000

Hi Danielle

I thought solar power worked from the daylight rather than just bright

sunshine - but I could be wrong.

Jo

Oh, I also saw signs touting solar power. That might not work in San

> Francisco (when I lived in San Jose and the Giants still played at 3Com,

I

> heard the joke was you needed to pack a change of clothes if you attended

a

> game there) or New England, it would work in what is called the sunbelt

(the

> Southeast, which gets a lot of sun). Wind energy might work in Chicago.

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" Where is the questioning where is the protest song?

Since when is skepticism un-American?

Dissent's not treason but they talk like it's the same

Those who disagree are afraid to show their face " --Sleater-Kinney

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January 22, 2003

You know, I never saw Bush as having the slightest concern over the

environment. But then, I knew he favors relaxing standards for polluters.

No wonder Houston's air quality is worse than that of Los Angeles. So

anything he does to harm the environment is only shocking because of its

breathtaking callousness.

----Original Message Follows----

" Heartwork " <Heartwork

Re: Re: Environmentalists Against the War

Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:14:55 -0000

> Did he follow thru on those causes? Or just lip service?

> and this is an honest question, not a jab at him

It's the same here with Blair, although I think his follow through on green

policy is a bit better than Bush's. I think it was just lip service with

banning fox hunting though.

Jo

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" Where is the questioning where is the protest song?

Since when is skepticism un-American?

Dissent's not treason but they talk like it's the same

Those who disagree are afraid to show their face " --Sleater-Kinney

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January 22, 2003

I have two opinions - I don't know which one I favour. The first is that US

is the most powerful country in the world and Blair is hedging our bets and

playing safe. The second is that historically US and UK are more bound up

than we (the normal people) know, and are still intricately bound together.

If I ever come over as sounding rude or judgemental about America please

know that it is only the people in power that I am dissing.

Jo

> Honestly, what is it that makes Blair so dedicated to us? Not that we

> Americans do not appreciate the support of the UK, but he never

> falters from us. And we are not always right, I know, hard to believe.

>

> And I don't mean to sound critical or anything, just really

> interested in yer opinions on this.

>

> It confuses me.

>

> nikki

>

> , " Heartwork " <Heartwork@b...> wrote:

> >

> > > Did he follow thru on those causes? Or just lip service?

> > > and this is an honest question, not a jab at him

> >

> > It's the same here with Blair, although I think his follow through

> on green

> > policy is a bit better than Bush's. I think it was just lip

> service with

> > banning fox hunting though.

> >

> > Jo

> >

>

> To send an email to -

>

January 22, 2003

Yes, all the small things add up and must make a difference.

Jo

> I don't know for sure about that. Still, even if only part of the US uses

> solar, that would reduce need for polluting forms of energy, right? If

cars

> were made even slightly more fuel-efficient, that would reduce or

eliminate

> our dependence on foreign oil. If we can't eliminate completely the bad

> stuff, at least we can greatly reduce it.

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January 22, 2003

So true Danielle

Jo

> So

> anything he does to harm the environment is only shocking because of its

> breathtaking callousness.

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January 22, 2003

depends were you are...depends were you are...

people are people, and tend to make things into their own light and believe

systems...whether its religion er vegetarianism er politics...

i've met a-holes of every strip and nationalities...

we just happen to live in a nation where most people are x-tian, er claim to

be...so, you have a higher proportion of those who, imo, take the whole thing

the wrong way

lots of folks in other regions who mohammed would wince at as well...and i'm

sure moses would have a thing to say about certain other folks....

just my opinion....

wot do i know....i'm a flagrant beer worshipper, with hints of pagan agnostism

bacchanal rites...

" Danielle Kichler " <veggietart wrote:

>Peter,

>

>You're right: there are good people and bad people to be found in all

>religions, but it seems the biggest momzers are the ones who claim to be

>Christian. Maybe it's the number of so-called Christians in public life, as

>opposed to Jews or Muslims in public life. Most of the ones in public life

>tend to be megaschmucks.

>

>Danielle

>

>----Original Message Follows----

> " Peter " <Snowbow

>

>Re: Environmentalists Against the War

>Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:07:47 -0000

>

>Hi Danielle

>

> > Did he claim to be Christian? I don't think he made a big deal about his

> > religion, at least not the way W. and other Republicans do.

>

>I was pretty sure that he did claim to be Christian - but as you say,

>nowhere near as much as Bush.

>

> > Uh, George, I don't think Jesus would favor the death penalty, screwing

>the

> > poor to give tax cuts to the rich, and attacking a country so you can

>take

> > their oil. I don't think Jesus would approve of your sucking up to

> > moneychangers--the only folks he truly hated--or your disdain for women,

> > gays, and minorities.

>

>Well said! :-)

>

> > If more Christians were like Jimmy Carter, the religion might not get

>such

>a

> > bad rap. No wonder I'm agnostic.

>

>I think there's a vast variety of people in all religions - it just so

>happens that most of the people who strive to get into power tend to be

>b*****ds, so whichever religion they come from, they're going to give it a

>bad name.

>

>BB

>Peter

>

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>

> " Where is the questioning where is the protest song?

>Since when is skepticism un-American?

>Dissent's not treason but they talk like it's the same

>Those who disagree are afraid to show their face " --Sleater-Kinney

>

>_______________

>MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.

>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

>

>To send an email to -

>

January 22, 2003

Hi Fraggle

I'm no beerworshipper but I think what you say is correct.

Jo

> depends were you are...depends were you are...

> people are people, and tend to make things into their own light and

believe systems...whether its religion er vegetarianism er politics...

> i've met a-holes of every strip and nationalities...

> we just happen to live in a nation where most people are x-tian, er claim

to be...so, you have a higher proportion of those who, imo, take the whole

thing the wrong way

> lots of folks in other regions who mohammed would wince at as well...and

i'm sure moses would have a thing to say about certain other folks....

> just my opinion....

> wot do i know....i'm a flagrant beer worshipper, with hints of pagan

agnostism bacchanal rites...

>

> " Danielle Kichler " <veggietart wrote:

>

> >Peter,

> >

> >You're right: there are good people and bad people to be found in all

> >religions, but it seems the biggest momzers are the ones who claim to be

> >Christian. Maybe it's the number of so-called Christians in public life,

as

> >opposed to Jews or Muslims in public life. Most of the ones in public

life

> >tend to be megaschmucks.

> >

> >Danielle

> >

> >----Original Message Follows----

> > " Peter " <Snowbow

> >

> >Re: Environmentalists Against the War

> >Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:07:47 -0000

> >

> >Hi Danielle

> >

> > > Did he claim to be Christian? I don't think he made a big deal about

his

> > > religion, at least not the way W. and other Republicans do.

> >

> >I was pretty sure that he did claim to be Christian - but as you say,

> >nowhere near as much as Bush.

> >

> > > Uh, George, I don't think Jesus would favor the death penalty,

screwing

> >the

> > > poor to give tax cuts to the rich, and attacking a country so you can

> >take

> > > their oil. I don't think Jesus would approve of your sucking up to

> > > moneychangers--the only folks he truly hated--or your disdain for

women,

> > > gays, and minorities.

> >

> >Well said! :-)

> >

> > > If more Christians were like Jimmy Carter, the religion might not get

> >such

> >a

> > > bad rap. No wonder I'm agnostic.

> >

> >I think there's a vast variety of people in all religions - it just so

> >happens that most of the people who strive to get into power tend to be

> >b*****ds, so whichever religion they come from, they're going to give it

a

> >bad name.

> >

> >BB

> >Peter

> >

> >---

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> >

> > " Where is the questioning where is the protest song?

> >Since when is skepticism un-American?

> >Dissent's not treason but they talk like it's the same

> >Those who disagree are afraid to show their face " --Sleater-Kinney

> >

> >_______________

> >MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.

> >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

> >

> >To send an email to -

> >

January 22, 2003

Hi Danielle

> Peter--the head count or the mercury reading? hee hee.

LOL - I certainly hope we beat the temperature!!!

BB

Peter

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January 22, 2003

>I agree - they are all crooks, tho some have done some great things,

>it all boils down to trying to pick the lesser evil and we don't

>always succeed at that

eh..i've given up on that..tired of votin fer the lesser evil, i'm either votin

with my heart, er sayin screw it and votin fer the greater evil why beat around

the bush right? lets cut to the chase and just vote cthulhu er hitler er

something...

>

>> clinton just had a downhomesy feel to him, and made lip service to

>>certain causes near and dear to my heart...

>

>Did he follow thru on those causes? Or just lip service?

>and this is an honest question, not a jab at him

mostly lip service..

he did a few things here and there..and made a bunch of last minute memorials

and laws just before he left office, but, fer the most part, he was no better

then bush sr. before him, he just seemed better, and made a few cosmetic

changes...

>

>we need fresh blood, unfortunately they wouldn't make it to the

>ballot much less the office

unfortunately, the fresh blood is usually spilled on the sand of some other

nation...

>

>nikki

>

>To send an email to -

>

January 22, 2003

Hi Nikki

> Honestly, what is it that makes Blair so dedicated to us? Not that we

> Americans do not appreciate the support of the UK, but he never

> falters from us. And we are not always right, I know, hard to believe.

> And I don't mean to sound critical or anything, just really

> interested in yer opinions on this.

I'm not sure you'll want to hear this opinion, but it's something we've been

discussing on another list, and a few of us have come to a startling

conclusion.....

Blair isn't specifically supporting Bush or the US at all....both Bush and

Blair are controlled by a higher authority!

BB

Peter

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January 22, 2003

simple

secret boswick treaty of 1946...

we bought britain in a leveraged byout,and the paperwork was only completed in

1972, and we just got rid of all the old middle management and sent in a crack

re assesment team in 1986...

i'm joking of course..sorta...

britain has been a " stalwart " ally fer many years now, but, if ya take the long

view of it, they became jr partners in world empire after WWII...the UK got

pummeled in WWII, and nary a bomb fell on us...so, naturally, we emerged as an

economic powerhouse after the war, and were able to just sorta assume some of

the duties of the old english empire

rule britannia....

" nikki_mackovitch <nikkimack " <nikkimack wrote:

>Jo and Peter,

>

>Honestly, what is it that makes Blair so dedicated to us? Not that we

>Americans do not appreciate the support of the UK, but he never

>falters from us. And we are not always right, I know, hard to believe.

>

>And I don't mean to sound critical or anything, just really

>interested in yer opinions on this.

>

>It confuses me.

>

>nikki

>

> , " Heartwork " <Heartwork@b...> wrote:

>>

>> > Did he follow thru on those causes? Or just lip service?

>> > and this is an honest question, not a jab at him

>>

>> It's the same here with Blair, although I think his follow through

>on green

>> policy is a bit better than Bush's. I think it was just lip

>service with

>> banning fox hunting though.

>>

>> Jo

>>

>

>To send an email to -

>

January 22, 2003

Hi Danielle

> You're right: there are good people and bad people to be found in all

> religions, but it seems the biggest momzers are the ones who claim to be

> Christian. Maybe it's the number of so-called Christians in public life,

as

> opposed to Jews or Muslims in public life. Most of the ones in public

life

> tend to be megaschmucks.

I think it has a lot to do with the people you tend to mix with.... being

Pagan, I tend to mix in Pagan circles ('scuse the pun), and I can assure you

there are quite a few " momzers " (as you put it!) in amongst them. I think

that you're right about it being the relatively high percentage of

Christians in public life - but if you look at other cultures, where Islam

and Judaism are more prevalent, the people who get into power in those

cultures are just as stupid and hypocritical as those in largely Christian

cultures, and they are from different religions - to give just a couple of

examples.... Ariel Sharon, Ayatollah Khomeini.

BB

Peter

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January 22, 2003

its all in the polling questions..which are usually slanted toward a certain

answer

" Danielle Kichler " <veggietart wrote:

>Thank you, Nikki.

>

>I just read that polls indicate support declining for attacking Iraq. Most

>people polled favor giving UN inspectors more time. OK, I don't put much

>stock in polls, especially the ones showing high approval ratings for Smirky

>Shrubster, but it's still encouraging.

>

>A more accurate reading is how many people show up to say, " This war is

>wrong. "

>

>Danielle

>

>----Original Message Follows----

> " nikki_mackovitch <nikkimack " <nikkimack

>

> Re: Environmentalists Against the War

>Wed, 22 Jan 2003 10:49:16 -0000

>

>Good Morning Danielle!

>

>I think that is absolutely wonderful and spirit lifting!

>

>What amazes me is that every time we protest these things, the media

>looks in wonder and comments on how amazed they are at the amount of

>people who show up. As if they never expected so many people to

>protest something.

>

>Thanks for being one of those great people!

>

>Nikki

>

> , " Danielle Kichler "

><veggietart@h...> wrote:

> > Washington, DC, in January--that would be 20s fahrenheit. I'm a

>Yank, so

> > that's how I measure things. Maybe I should have said well below

>freezing.

> > That really makes it amazing: how many people are willing to go

>out in

> > freezing weather to protest this stupid oil war.

> >

> > Danielle

> >

>

> " Where is the questioning where is the protest song?

>Since when is skepticism un-American?

>Dissent's not treason but they talk like it's the same

>Those who disagree are afraid to show their face " --Sleater-Kinney

>

>_______________

>MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.

>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

>

>To send an email to -

>

January 22, 2003

apparantly he is concerned about his ranch tho...

he uses recycled water there, and has solar power this and that...

but, fer the rest of us, well, we get the big rasberry

i like the fact that in his new budget, ya get a tax right off if ya buy a new

SUV, as a matter of fact, the bigger it is, the bigger the write off, and some

of em are 100% tax back!!!

yeehaw!

" Danielle Kichler " <veggietart wrote:

>You know, I never saw Bush as having the slightest concern over the

>environment. But then, I knew he favors relaxing standards for polluters.

>No wonder Houston's air quality is worse than that of Los Angeles. So

>anything he does to harm the environment is only shocking because of its

>breathtaking callousness.

>

>----Original Message Follows----

> " Heartwork " <Heartwork

>

>Re: Re: Environmentalists Against the War

>Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:14:55 -0000

>

> > Did he follow thru on those causes? Or just lip service?

> > and this is an honest question, not a jab at him

>

>It's the same here with Blair, although I think his follow through on green

>policy is a bit better than Bush's. I think it was just lip service with

>banning fox hunting though.

>

>Jo

>

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>

> " Where is the questioning where is the protest song?

>Since when is skepticism un-American?

>Dissent's not treason but they talk like it's the same

>Those who disagree are afraid to show their face " --Sleater-Kinney

>

>_______________

>Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*

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January 22, 2003

damn those templars

*rofl*

>Blair isn't specifically supporting Bush or the US at all....both Bush and

>Blair are controlled by a higher authority!

>

>BB

>Peter

>

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January 22, 2003

......and don't they only do 5 mpg or something similar?

SUV, as a matter of fact, the bigger it is, the bigger the write off, and

some of em are 100% tax back!!!

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January 22, 2003

Hi Fraggle

> simple

> secret boswick treaty of 1946...

> we bought britain in a leveraged byout,and the paperwork was only

completed in 1972, and we just got rid of all the old

> middle management and sent in a crack re assesment team in 1986...

> i'm joking of course..sorta...

Now I thought the British government announced in about 1986 that they had

accepted a take-over bid from Honda! (Apologies to anyone who isn't an avid

Fry & Laurie fan!!!) :-)

BB

Peter

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January 22, 2003

Hi Fraggle

> damn those templars

LOL - there could be a connection... but that wasn't how the theory came

about. It was like this...

We were discussing the curious history and political status of the Federal

Reserve Bank and the IRS: the fact that the government department (The

" Internal Revenue Service " ) was dismantled in 1953, and a private company

that had been formed with the same name in 1933 took over the role of the

government department. This led on to a bit of research into the exact

political status of the IRS, and it turns out that its actually based in

Puerto Rico (the official title of the Secretary of the IRS, for instance,

is the " Secretary of the Internal Revenue Service of Puerto Rico) - and

everything about the IRS leads you back to Puerto Rico. OK - that seemed a

bit odd, so we did a bit of research into the exact nature of the USA and

Puerto Rico, and found some *very* interesting stuff..... the legal

definition of " The United States of America " refers to District of Columbia,

Guam and Puerto Rico - it *doesn't* include any of the rest of the North

American continent. So, the next question is... if the United States of

America doesn't own the land of America, who does? Well, the only evidence

for ownership dates back to the old charter of the Virginia Company - this

claims the title of the land for the monarchy of England, and giving a

" permanent " lease (which can be revoked at any time by the English monarch)

to the officers of the Virginia Company. So it would seem that the land is

currently owned by the Queen of England!!

From there, we came to the conclusion that the US doesn't have a hold over

the UK, but rather the other way around - and from there it was only a small

step to suggest that actually there was someone else controlling both!

That was fun :-) (BTW - I'm not joking!!)

BB

Peter

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