Environmentalists Against the War

January 21, 2003

Thanks fraggle. Yeah, it musta been a drag for ol' Newtie. But he could

have at least paid his child support on time. And what's his excuse for

ditching wife number two? Sheesh.

BTW, the march in DC was *incredible* I read in The Washington Post that

when the first marchers were arriving at the Navy Yard to end the march,

there were still folks at the rally site 12 blocks away. We did have a few

freeper creepers counterdemonstrating, but they were only a handful. While

some folks were screaming " No blood for oil, " I was yelling, " You want a

war, you go fight it. " Fat chance of that; most of them were too old.

The Park Police doesn't do official estimates anymore, but one estimate--not

from them--was 500,000. DC Police just said there were an awful lot of

people. It was incredibly cold, too, in the mid-20s.

We might have an idea when Metro releases ridership figures for that day; on

both trains my friend and I rode, it was jam-packed.

Danielle

----Original Message Follows----

EBbrewpunx

Re: Environmentalists Against the War

Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:35:37 -0500

oh, leave poor newty alone..he had to divorce his wife, do you have any idea

wot a drag it is to be married to someone with cancer....

*rolls eyes*

i agree with danille..while clinton wasn't the brightest bulb and he's an

ass fer wot he did to his wife, sh*t, the ones who hopped up and down about

impeachment had a few more skeletons in their closets ....

it was silly...

i don't see any politicians screamin about impeachin the current crop we

have in the administration, yet, imo, wot they are doing is much worse

fraggle

" Danielle Kichler " <veggietart wrote:

>Well, everything I heard during the flap indicated that the reason we were

a

>laughingstock was *because* our politicians made such a big deal over his

>misdeeds.

>

>And I never suggested two wrongs make a right; what I said was that the

>folks who attacked Clinton for his marital infidelity *had no right* to do

>so. I never said it was OK for Clinton to do what he did; in fact, I

think

>he's a jerk for cheating on his wife.

>

>What I said was, it looks really bad to persecute a man for cheating on

his

>wife when you've done it yourself. At least Bill and Hillary Clinton are

>still married, which is more than you can say for Bob Barr (three

>marriages), Newt Gingrich (ditto), Bob Dole, Phil Gramm, Bob Livingston,

>whose House speaker bid was derailed by the fact that he had cheated on

his

>wife, and who knows how many others.

>

>And I do think the people should know if their candidates are trustworthy.

>That includes the guys who play marriage-go-round; the guys who are

>physically faithful, but cozy up to corrupt corporations; the guys who

>support racist organizations (Trent Lott, John Ashcroft, George W. Bush).

>

>Danielle

>

>----Original Message Follows----

> " Peter " <Snowbow

>

>Re: Environmentalists Against the War

>Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:52:52 -0000

>

>Hi Danielle

>

> > Well, in France, I don't think there's a married man who doesn't have a

> > mistress--and many married women have lovers as well--politicians

>included.

>

>Do you have any figures for this, or is it a generalisation based on media

>stereotyping?

>

> > Yes, it was wrong for Clinton to lie about his affairs, but sheesh, it

>was

> > wrong for these jerks to grill him about his sex life and grill Monica

> > Lewinsky about the details of what she did with the pres.

>

>So, you don't think the electorate have a right to know whether the people

>they are asked to vote for are trustworthy?

>

> > And I have a nice

> > list of guys who attacked Clinton, but couldn't stay true to their

>wives--in

> > fact, left them for the mistresses.

>

>Y'know - in the UK we have a saying.... Two wrongs don't make a right.

>

>BB

>Peter

>

>---

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>

> " Where is the questioning where is the protest song?

>Since when is skepticism un-American?

>Dissent's not treason but they talk like it's the same

>Those who disagree are afraid to show their face " --Sleater-Kinney

>

>_______________

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>

January 21, 2003

I was thinking that: there are marriages of convenience, so to speak, where

the participants probably enjoy each other's company or the power they have

together, whatever. It's not a love marriage, so the parties have an open

marriage. I don't know if it's what the Clintons have, but either way, it's

not anyone's damn business.

Danielle

----Original Message Follows----

EBbrewpunx

Re: Environmentalists Against the War

Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:58:01 -0500

ok, wild thought here

how do you know its a lie..wot if so and so have an understanding? " sure, go

have a toss with that cheerleader, just make sure you wear a condom.. "

" Peter " <Snowbow wrote:

>> The point is that a politician admitting an affair in Britain would not

be

>> forced to resign immediately because people are willing to accept that a

>> person's private life is just that, and it does not affect their ability

>to

>> do their job (though many other factors obviously do, such as donors).

>

>Considering that their job is specifically to do what they have promised

to

>do in their election campaigns, I'd say whether or not they lie to people

>they claim to love is very much a statement about their ability to do

their

>job. If you put yourself in the public eye, then your private life ceases

to

>be private - that is the decision made by every politician, and when their

>private life tells us how they are likely to behave in public office, it

is

>vital that we have access to that information.

>

>I'm surprised that you feel happy to be represented by liars and cheats.

>

>BB

>Peter

>

>---

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>

>To send an email to -

>

January 21, 2003

Did he claim to be Christian? I don't think he made a big deal about his

religion, at least not the way W. and other Republicans do.

Uh, George, I don't think Jesus would favor the death penalty, screwing the

poor to give tax cuts to the rich, and attacking a country so you can take

their oil. I don't think Jesus would approve of your sucking up to

moneychangers--the only folks he truly hated--or your disdain for women,

gays, and minorities.

If more Christians were like Jimmy Carter, the religion might not get such a

bad rap. No wonder I'm agnostic.

Danielle

----Original Message Follows----

" Heartwork " <Heartwork

Re: Environmentalists Against the War

Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:50:00 -0000

If you have an agreement I suppose it is okay, but it didn't seem like there

was an agreement, and it certainly hurt their daughter one hell of a lot -

not the way to behave if you care about your kids! Also doesn't he claim to

be Christian. Christian marriages usually promise to be faithful so he has

broken that promise as well.

Jo

> ok, wild thought here

> how do you know its a lie..wot if so and so have an understanding? " sure,

go have a toss with that cheerleader, just make sure you wear a condom.. "

---

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" Where is the questioning where is the protest song?

Since when is skepticism un-American?

Dissent's not treason but they talk like it's the same

Those who disagree are afraid to show their face " --Sleater-Kinney

_______________

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January 21, 2003

It wouldn't have caused trouble for the country if his enemies didn't make

such a deal over it. Of course, maybe Monica should have kept her skirt

down with Bill and flirted instead with a single guy. I'm sure there were

plenty of single, straight hotties in the administration. The silly,

insecure, plump, Jewish girl made a pass at the president! Some might call

that chutzpah.

Danielle

----Original Message Follows----

" Heartwork " <Heartwork

Re: Environmentalists Against the War

Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:53:06 -0000

Of course, he could just have been taking advantage of a young

impressionable girl who came under his charisma - also not very honourable.

Whether the relationship is an agreed open one or not, the fact that he did

what he did caused a lot of trouble for himself, his daughter, Monica and

his country, so I don't think it was a wise action.

Jo

> how does ya know it wasn't an open relationship?

> i doubt they'd come out and say it if they were, political dogsh*t

instantly

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" Where is the questioning where is the protest song?

Since when is skepticism un-American?

Dissent's not treason but they talk like it's the same

Those who disagree are afraid to show their face " --Sleater-Kinney

_______________

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January 21, 2003

Danielle

It's fantastic to think that so many people are prepared to actualy get up

and demonstrate against war, isn't it. The police vastly underestimate the

number of people attending here as well.

When you say the temperature is mid-20s is that centigrade or fahrenheit?

Jo

> from them--was 500,000. DC Police just said there were an awful lot of

> people. It was incredibly cold, too, in the mid-20s.

>

> We might have an idea when Metro releases ridership figures for that day;

on

> both trains my friend and I rode, it was jam-packed.

>

> Danielle

>

> ----Original Message Follows----

> EBbrewpunx

>

> Re: Environmentalists Against the War

> Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:35:37 -0500

>

> oh, leave poor newty alone..he had to divorce his wife, do you have any

idea

> wot a drag it is to be married to someone with cancer....

> *rolls eyes*

> i agree with danille..while clinton wasn't the brightest bulb and he's an

> ass fer wot he did to his wife, sh*t, the ones who hopped up and down

about

> impeachment had a few more skeletons in their closets ....

> it was silly...

> i don't see any politicians screamin about impeachin the current crop we

> have in the administration, yet, imo, wot they are doing is much worse

> fraggle

>

> " Danielle Kichler " <veggietart wrote:

>

> >Well, everything I heard during the flap indicated that the reason we

were

> a

> >laughingstock was *because* our politicians made such a big deal over

his

> >misdeeds.

> >

> >And I never suggested two wrongs make a right; what I said was that the

> >folks who attacked Clinton for his marital infidelity *had no right* to

do

> >so. I never said it was OK for Clinton to do what he did; in fact, I

> think

> >he's a jerk for cheating on his wife.

> >

> >What I said was, it looks really bad to persecute a man for cheating on

> his

> >wife when you've done it yourself. At least Bill and Hillary Clinton are

> >still married, which is more than you can say for Bob Barr (three

> >marriages), Newt Gingrich (ditto), Bob Dole, Phil Gramm, Bob Livingston,

> >whose House speaker bid was derailed by the fact that he had cheated on

> his

> >wife, and who knows how many others.

> >

> >And I do think the people should know if their candidates are

trustworthy.

>

> >That includes the guys who play marriage-go-round; the guys who are

> >physically faithful, but cozy up to corrupt corporations; the guys who

> >support racist organizations (Trent Lott, John Ashcroft, George W.

Bush).

> >

> >Danielle

> >

> >----Original Message Follows----

> > " Peter " <Snowbow

> >

> >Re: Environmentalists Against the War

> >Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:52:52 -0000

> >

> >Hi Danielle

> >

> > > Well, in France, I don't think there's a married man who doesn't have

a

> > > mistress--and many married women have lovers as well--politicians

> >included.

> >

> >Do you have any figures for this, or is it a generalisation based on

media

> >stereotyping?

> >

> > > Yes, it was wrong for Clinton to lie about his affairs, but sheesh,

it

> >was

> > > wrong for these jerks to grill him about his sex life and grill

Monica

> > > Lewinsky about the details of what she did with the pres.

> >

> >So, you don't think the electorate have a right to know whether the

people

> >they are asked to vote for are trustworthy?

> >

> > > And I have a nice

> > > list of guys who attacked Clinton, but couldn't stay true to their

> >wives--in

> > > fact, left them for the mistresses.

> >

> >Y'know - in the UK we have a saying.... Two wrongs don't make a right.

> >

> >BB

> >Peter

> >

> >---

> >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> >Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release 30/12/02

> >

> > " Where is the questioning where is the protest song?

> >Since when is skepticism un-American?

> >Dissent's not treason but they talk like it's the same

> >Those who disagree are afraid to show their face " --Sleater-Kinney

> >

> >_______________

> >MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*.

> >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

> >

> >To send an email to -

> >

January 21, 2003

Danielle

I agree that sometimes the women have gone into the marriages for the money

and power position rather than love.

Jo

> I was thinking that: there are marriages of convenience, so to speak,

where

> the participants probably enjoy each other's company or the power they

have

> together, whatever. It's not a love marriage, so the parties have an open

> marriage. I don't know if it's what the Clintons have, but either way,

it's

> not anyone's damn business.

>

> Danielle

>

> ----Original Message Follows----

> EBbrewpunx

>

> Re: Environmentalists Against the War

> Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:58:01 -0500

>

> ok, wild thought here

> how do you know its a lie..wot if so and so have an understanding? " sure,

go

> have a toss with that cheerleader, just make sure you wear a condom.. "

>

> " Peter " <Snowbow wrote:

>

> >> The point is that a politician admitting an affair in Britain would

not

> be

> >> forced to resign immediately because people are willing to accept that

a

> >> person's private life is just that, and it does not affect their

ability

> >to

> >> do their job (though many other factors obviously do, such as donors).

> >

> >Considering that their job is specifically to do what they have promised

> to

> >do in their election campaigns, I'd say whether or not they lie to

people

> >they claim to love is very much a statement about their ability to do

> their

> >job. If you put yourself in the public eye, then your private life

ceases

> to

> >be private - that is the decision made by every politician, and when

their

> >private life tells us how they are likely to behave in public office, it

> is

> >vital that we have access to that information.

> >

> >I'm surprised that you feel happy to be represented by liars and cheats.

> >

> >BB

> >Peter

> >

> >---

> >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> >Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release 30/12/02

> >

> >To send an email to -

> >

January 21, 2003

Sorry Fraggle, have to agree with Jo here. Besides, i'm sure their

agreements didn't include to bring it out into the publics eye. Not

that Clinton intentionally did that, but he wasn't very careful at

hiding it either.

nikki

What I search for, I find. What we neglect escapes us.

Sophocles

, " Heartwork " <Heartwork@b...> wrote:

> If you have an agreement I suppose it is okay, but it didn't seem

like there

> was an agreement, and it certainly hurt their daughter one hell of

a lot -

> not the way to behave if you care about your kids! Also doesn't he

claim to

> be Christian. Christian marriages usually promise to be faithful

so he has

> broken that promise as well.

>

> Jo

>

> > ok, wild thought here

> > how do you know its a lie..wot if so and so have an

understanding? " sure,

> go have a toss with that cheerleader, just make sure you wear a

condom.. "

>

> ---

> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release 30/12/02

January 21, 2003

And some might call that a racist statement

So now it is all her fault? Why is it none of anyone's business when

we talk about Clinton and it is yer right to slam when we talk about

her? Is that fair?

As far as I am concerned, it is over and we wasted enough damn tax

money on the whole issue. They are both to blame because they were

both present and consenting. Neither one is better or worse than the

other. Just like you and I.

Whether silly, Jewish or plump!

nikki

, " Danielle Kichler "

<veggietart@h...> wrote:

> It wouldn't have caused trouble for the country if his enemies

didn't make

> such a deal over it. Of course, maybe Monica should have kept her

skirt

> down with Bill and flirted instead with a single guy. I'm sure

there were

> plenty of single, straight hotties in the administration. The

silly,

> insecure, plump, Jewish girl made a pass at the president! Some

might call

> that chutzpah.

>

> Danielle

>

January 21, 2003

Here here (if you'll excuse the typical English retort)

Jo

> And some might call that a racist statement

>

> So now it is all her fault? Why is it none of anyone's business when

> we talk about Clinton and it is yer right to slam when we talk about

> her? Is that fair?

>

> As far as I am concerned, it is over and we wasted enough damn tax

> money on the whole issue. They are both to blame because they were

> both present and consenting. Neither one is better or worse than the

> other. Just like you and I.

>

> Whether silly, Jewish or plump!

>

> nikki

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

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January 21, 2003

Washington, DC, in January--that would be 20s fahrenheit. I'm a Yank, so

that's how I measure things. Maybe I should have said well below freezing.

That really makes it amazing: how many people are willing to go out in

freezing weather to protest this stupid oil war.

Danielle

----Original Message Follows----

" Heartwork " <Heartwork

Re: Environmentalists Against the War

Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:51:57 -0000

Danielle

It's fantastic to think that so many people are prepared to actualy get up

and demonstrate against war, isn't it. The police vastly underestimate the

number of people attending here as well.

When you say the temperature is mid-20s is that centigrade or fahrenheit?

Jo

> from them--was 500,000. DC Police just said there were an awful lot of

> people. It was incredibly cold, too, in the mid-20s.

>

> We might have an idea when Metro releases ridership figures for that day;

on

> both trains my friend and I rode, it was jam-packed.

>

> Danielle

>

> ----Original Message Follows----

> EBbrewpunx

>

> Re: Environmentalists Against the War

> Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:35:37 -0500

>

> oh, leave poor newty alone..he had to divorce his wife, do you have any

idea

> wot a drag it is to be married to someone with cancer....

> *rolls eyes*

> i agree with danille..while clinton wasn't the brightest bulb and he's an

> ass fer wot he did to his wife, sh*t, the ones who hopped up and down

about

> impeachment had a few more skeletons in their closets ....

> it was silly...

> i don't see any politicians screamin about impeachin the current crop we

> have in the administration, yet, imo, wot they are doing is much worse

> fraggle

>

> " Danielle Kichler " <veggietart wrote:

>

> >Well, everything I heard during the flap indicated that the reason we

were

> a

> >laughingstock was *because* our politicians made such a big deal over

his

> >misdeeds.

> >

> >And I never suggested two wrongs make a right; what I said was that the

> >folks who attacked Clinton for his marital infidelity *had no right* to

do

> >so. I never said it was OK for Clinton to do what he did; in fact, I

> think

> >he's a jerk for cheating on his wife.

> >

> >What I said was, it looks really bad to persecute a man for cheating on

> his

> >wife when you've done it yourself. At least Bill and Hillary Clinton

are

> >still married, which is more than you can say for Bob Barr (three

> >marriages), Newt Gingrich (ditto), Bob Dole, Phil Gramm, Bob

Livingston,

> >whose House speaker bid was derailed by the fact that he had cheated on

> his

> >wife, and who knows how many others.

> >

> >And I do think the people should know if their candidates are

trustworthy.

>

> >That includes the guys who play marriage-go-round; the guys who are

> >physically faithful, but cozy up to corrupt corporations; the guys who

> >support racist organizations (Trent Lott, John Ashcroft, George W.

Bush).

> >

> >Danielle

> >

> >----Original Message Follows----

> > " Peter " <Snowbow

> >

> >Re: Environmentalists Against the War

> >Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:52:52 -0000

> >

> >Hi Danielle

> >

> > > Well, in France, I don't think there's a married man who doesn't

have

a

> > > mistress--and many married women have lovers as well--politicians

> >included.

> >

> >Do you have any figures for this, or is it a generalisation based on

media

> >stereotyping?

> >

> > > Yes, it was wrong for Clinton to lie about his affairs, but sheesh,

it

> >was

> > > wrong for these jerks to grill him about his sex life and grill

Monica

> > > Lewinsky about the details of what she did with the pres.

> >

> >So, you don't think the electorate have a right to know whether the

people

> >they are asked to vote for are trustworthy?

> >

> > > And I have a nice

> > > list of guys who attacked Clinton, but couldn't stay true to their

> >wives--in

> > > fact, left them for the mistresses.

> >

> >Y'know - in the UK we have a saying.... Two wrongs don't make a right.

> >

> >BB

> >Peter

> >

> >---

> >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> >Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release 30/12/02

> >

> > " Where is the questioning where is the protest song?

> >Since when is skepticism un-American?

> >Dissent's not treason but they talk like it's the same

> >Those who disagree are afraid to show their face " --Sleater-Kinney

> >

> >_______________

> >MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*.

> >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

> >

> >To send an email to -

> >

January 21, 2003

That's definitely cold! As you say - it shows the amount of support for

peace.

Jo

> Washington, DC, in January--that would be 20s fahrenheit. I'm a Yank, so

> that's how I measure things. Maybe I should have said well below

freezing.

> That really makes it amazing: how many people are willing to go out in

> freezing weather to protest this stupid oil war.

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

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January 21, 2003

Nikki,

I didn't SAY it was all her fault. But she did make a pass at him, and he

wasn't enough of a gentleman to say, " Put your skirt down and behave

appropriately. " or better yet, ignore it. She allegedly said she wanted to

get her presidential kneedpads when she went to DC for her internship. I'm

not slamming her at all; I think it was disgusting that her life was dragged

out for display because half of Congress was determined to destroy a man.

They're both at fault.

I'm a (sometimes) silly, insecure, plump Jewish woman myself, so I don't

think I'm being racist or bigoted in that regard; I just don't have the

chutzpah to flash my panties at anyone but my boyfriend. Also, she appears

to be the polar opposite of his wife, so you gotta wonder if other forces

weren't working--his desire for something totally different. That said, I'm

glad she's doing well; at least she didn't let this destroy her life.

Danielle

----Original Message Follows----

" nikki_mackovitch <nikkimack " <nikkimack

Re: Environmentalists Against the War

Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:47:12 -0000

And some might call that a racist statement

So now it is all her fault? Why is it none of anyone's business when

we talk about Clinton and it is yer right to slam when we talk about

her? Is that fair?

As far as I am concerned, it is over and we wasted enough damn tax

money on the whole issue. They are both to blame because they were

both present and consenting. Neither one is better or worse than the

other. Just like you and I.

Whether silly, Jewish or plump!

nikki

, " Danielle Kichler "

<veggietart@h...> wrote:

> It wouldn't have caused trouble for the country if his enemies

didn't make

> such a deal over it. Of course, maybe Monica should have kept her

skirt

> down with Bill and flirted instead with a single guy. I'm sure

there were

> plenty of single, straight hotties in the administration. The

silly,

> insecure, plump, Jewish girl made a pass at the president! Some

might call

> that chutzpah.

>

> Danielle

>

" Where is the questioning where is the protest song?

Since when is skepticism un-American?

Dissent's not treason but they talk like it's the same

Those who disagree are afraid to show their face " --Sleater-Kinney

_______________

MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*.

http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

January 21, 2003

apparantly there were counter demonstrators in SF as well, the Chron wrote about

em, but i didn;t see any

as fer numbers...they use a certain ratio to count em..if its friendly, 3 the

count and divide by 2, if its non friendly, divide by 3, and double(the same

formula they use fer friendly casualties and enemy combantants)

" Danielle Kichler " <veggietart wrote:

>Thanks fraggle. Yeah, it musta been a drag for ol' Newtie. But he could

>have at least paid his child support on time. And what's his excuse for

>ditching wife number two? Sheesh.

>

>BTW, the march in DC was *incredible* I read in The Washington Post that

>when the first marchers were arriving at the Navy Yard to end the march,

>there were still folks at the rally site 12 blocks away. We did have a few

>freeper creepers counterdemonstrating, but they were only a handful. While

>some folks were screaming " No blood for oil, " I was yelling, " You want a

>war, you go fight it. " Fat chance of that; most of them were too old.

>

>The Park Police doesn't do official estimates anymore, but one estimate--not

>from them--was 500,000. DC Police just said there were an awful lot of

>people. It was incredibly cold, too, in the mid-20s.

>

>We might have an idea when Metro releases ridership figures for that day; on

>both trains my friend and I rode, it was jam-packed.

>

>Danielle

>

>----Original Message Follows----

>EBbrewpunx

>

>Re: Environmentalists Against the War

>Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:35:37 -0500

>

>oh, leave poor newty alone..he had to divorce his wife, do you have any idea

>wot a drag it is to be married to someone with cancer....

>*rolls eyes*

>i agree with danille..while clinton wasn't the brightest bulb and he's an

>ass fer wot he did to his wife, sh*t, the ones who hopped up and down about

>impeachment had a few more skeletons in their closets ....

>it was silly...

>i don't see any politicians screamin about impeachin the current crop we

>have in the administration, yet, imo, wot they are doing is much worse

>fraggle

>

> " Danielle Kichler " <veggietart wrote:

>

> >Well, everything I heard during the flap indicated that the reason we were

>a

> >laughingstock was *because* our politicians made such a big deal over his

> >misdeeds.

> >

> >And I never suggested two wrongs make a right; what I said was that the

> >folks who attacked Clinton for his marital infidelity *had no right* to do

> >so. I never said it was OK for Clinton to do what he did; in fact, I

>think

> >he's a jerk for cheating on his wife.

> >

> >What I said was, it looks really bad to persecute a man for cheating on

>his

> >wife when you've done it yourself. At least Bill and Hillary Clinton are

> >still married, which is more than you can say for Bob Barr (three

> >marriages), Newt Gingrich (ditto), Bob Dole, Phil Gramm, Bob Livingston,

> >whose House speaker bid was derailed by the fact that he had cheated on

>his

> >wife, and who knows how many others.

> >

> >And I do think the people should know if their candidates are trustworthy.

>

> >That includes the guys who play marriage-go-round; the guys who are

> >physically faithful, but cozy up to corrupt corporations; the guys who

> >support racist organizations (Trent Lott, John Ashcroft, George W. Bush).

> >

> >Danielle

> >

> >----Original Message Follows----

> > " Peter " <Snowbow

> >

> >Re: Environmentalists Against the War

> >Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:52:52 -0000

> >

> >Hi Danielle

> >

> > > Well, in France, I don't think there's a married man who doesn't have a

> > > mistress--and many married women have lovers as well--politicians

> >included.

> >

> >Do you have any figures for this, or is it a generalisation based on media

> >stereotyping?

> >

> > > Yes, it was wrong for Clinton to lie about his affairs, but sheesh, it

> >was

> > > wrong for these jerks to grill him about his sex life and grill Monica

> > > Lewinsky about the details of what she did with the pres.

> >

> >So, you don't think the electorate have a right to know whether the people

> >they are asked to vote for are trustworthy?

> >

> > > And I have a nice

> > > list of guys who attacked Clinton, but couldn't stay true to their

> >wives--in

> > > fact, left them for the mistresses.

> >

> >Y'know - in the UK we have a saying.... Two wrongs don't make a right.

> >

> >BB

> >Peter

> >

> >---

> >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> >Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release 30/12/02

> >

> > " Where is the questioning where is the protest song?

> >Since when is skepticism un-American?

> >Dissent's not treason but they talk like it's the same

> >Those who disagree are afraid to show their face " --Sleater-Kinney

> >

> >_______________

> >MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*.

> >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

> >

> >To send an email to -

> >

January 21, 2003

one of my fave banners on saturday

" who would jesus bomb? "

" Danielle Kichler " <veggietart wrote:

>Did he claim to be Christian? I don't think he made a big deal about his

>religion, at least not the way W. and other Republicans do.

>

>Uh, George, I don't think Jesus would favor the death penalty, screwing the

>poor to give tax cuts to the rich, and attacking a country so you can take

>their oil. I don't think Jesus would approve of your sucking up to

>moneychangers--the only folks he truly hated--or your disdain for women,

>gays, and minorities.

>

>If more Christians were like Jimmy Carter, the religion might not get such a

>bad rap. No wonder I'm agnostic.

>

>Danielle

>

>----Original Message Follows----

> " Heartwork " <Heartwork

>

>Re: Environmentalists Against the War

>Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:50:00 -0000

>

>If you have an agreement I suppose it is okay, but it didn't seem like there

>was an agreement, and it certainly hurt their daughter one hell of a lot -

>not the way to behave if you care about your kids! Also doesn't he claim to

>be Christian. Christian marriages usually promise to be faithful so he has

>broken that promise as well.

>

>Jo

>

> > ok, wild thought here

> > how do you know its a lie..wot if so and so have an understanding? " sure,

>go have a toss with that cheerleader, just make sure you wear a condom.. "

>

>---

>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

>Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release 30/12/02

>

> " Where is the questioning where is the protest song?

>Since when is skepticism un-American?

>Dissent's not treason but they talk like it's the same

>Those who disagree are afraid to show their face " --Sleater-Kinney

>

>_______________

>Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.

>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

>

>To send an email to -

>

January 21, 2003

fahrenheit...we are still barbarians over here in the colonies.....

it was about 60 here.....

fraggle

" Heartwork " <Heartwork wrote:

>

>Danielle

>

>It's fantastic to think that so many people are prepared to actualy get up

>and demonstrate against war, isn't it. The police vastly underestimate the

>number of people attending here as well.

>

>When you say the temperature is mid-20s is that centigrade or fahrenheit?

>

>Jo

>

>> from them--was 500,000. DC Police just said there were an awful lot of

>> people. It was incredibly cold, too, in the mid-20s.

>>

>> We might have an idea when Metro releases ridership figures for that day;

>on

>> both trains my friend and I rode, it was jam-packed.

>>

>> Danielle

>>

>> ----Original Message Follows----

>> EBbrewpunx

>>

>> Re: Environmentalists Against the War

>> Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:35:37 -0500

>>

>> oh, leave poor newty alone..he had to divorce his wife, do you have any

>idea

>> wot a drag it is to be married to someone with cancer....

>> *rolls eyes*

>> i agree with danille..while clinton wasn't the brightest bulb and he's an

>> ass fer wot he did to his wife, sh*t, the ones who hopped up and down

>about

>> impeachment had a few more skeletons in their closets ....

>> it was silly...

>> i don't see any politicians screamin about impeachin the current crop we

>> have in the administration, yet, imo, wot they are doing is much worse

>> fraggle

>>

>> " Danielle Kichler " <veggietart wrote:

>>

>> >Well, everything I heard during the flap indicated that the reason we

>were

>> a

>> >laughingstock was *because* our politicians made such a big deal over

>his

>> >misdeeds.

>> >

>> >And I never suggested two wrongs make a right; what I said was that the

>> >folks who attacked Clinton for his marital infidelity *had no right* to

>do

>> >so. I never said it was OK for Clinton to do what he did; in fact, I

>> think

>> >he's a jerk for cheating on his wife.

>> >

>> >What I said was, it looks really bad to persecute a man for cheating on

>> his

>> >wife when you've done it yourself. At least Bill and Hillary Clinton are

>> >still married, which is more than you can say for Bob Barr (three

>> >marriages), Newt Gingrich (ditto), Bob Dole, Phil Gramm, Bob Livingston,

>> >whose House speaker bid was derailed by the fact that he had cheated on

>> his

>> >wife, and who knows how many others.

>> >

>> >And I do think the people should know if their candidates are

>trustworthy.

>>

>> >That includes the guys who play marriage-go-round; the guys who are

>> >physically faithful, but cozy up to corrupt corporations; the guys who

>> >support racist organizations (Trent Lott, John Ashcroft, George W.

>Bush).

>> >

>> >Danielle

>> >

>> >----Original Message Follows----

>> > " Peter " <Snowbow

>> >

>> >Re: Environmentalists Against the War

>> >Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:52:52 -0000

>> >

>> >Hi Danielle

>> >

>> > > Well, in France, I don't think there's a married man who doesn't have

>a

>> > > mistress--and many married women have lovers as well--politicians

>> >included.

>> >

>> >Do you have any figures for this, or is it a generalisation based on

>media

>> >stereotyping?

>> >

>> > > Yes, it was wrong for Clinton to lie about his affairs, but sheesh,

>it

>> >was

>> > > wrong for these jerks to grill him about his sex life and grill

>Monica

>> > > Lewinsky about the details of what she did with the pres.

>> >

>> >So, you don't think the electorate have a right to know whether the

>people

>> >they are asked to vote for are trustworthy?

>> >

>> > > And I have a nice

>> > > list of guys who attacked Clinton, but couldn't stay true to their

>> >wives--in

>> > > fact, left them for the mistresses.

>> >

>> >Y'know - in the UK we have a saying.... Two wrongs don't make a right.

>> >

>> >BB

>> >Peter

>> >

>> >---

>> >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

>> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

>> >Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release 30/12/02

>> >

>> > " Where is the questioning where is the protest song?

>> >Since when is skepticism un-American?

>> >Dissent's not treason but they talk like it's the same

>> >Those who disagree are afraid to show their face " --Sleater-Kinney

>> >

>> >_______________

>> >MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*.

>> >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

>> >

>> >To send an email to -

>> >

January 21, 2003

*shrug*

i knew ya would nikki...

i know yer feelins fer the clinton boi...

personally, wot he did was wrong, but absolutely pales in comparrison to wot the

current admin does

and ya know wot, ALL OF EM DO IT!! you couldn't tell me of one US administration

that didn't do something outlandish er sets my teeth on edge..sure, some were

better then others, but all had failings and tried to control folks and all that

there....

clinton just had a downhomesy feel to him, and made lip service to certain

causes near and dear to my heart...bush on the other hand can't even spell

environment....ever see the simpsons were they call to australia?? " i'd like a

coffee " beer it is " no, coffee " beer? " C. O... "

b. e..?

he's spells environment, either O I L er E N R O N

" nikki_mackovitch <nikkimack " <nikkimack wrote:

>Sorry Fraggle, have to agree with Jo here. Besides, i'm sure their

>agreements didn't include to bring it out into the publics eye. Not

>that Clinton intentionally did that, but he wasn't very careful at

>hiding it either.

>

>nikki

>What I search for, I find. What we neglect escapes us.

>Sophocles

>

January 21, 2003

Hi Danielle

> The Park Police doesn't do official estimates anymore, but one

estimate--not

> from them--was 500,000. DC Police just said there were an awful lot of

> people. It was incredibly cold, too, in the mid-20s.

Wow - that's fantastic. It gives London something to aim for in February :-)

BB

Peter

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

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January 21, 2003

Hi Danielle

> Did he claim to be Christian? I don't think he made a big deal about his

> religion, at least not the way W. and other Republicans do.

I was pretty sure that he did claim to be Christian - but as you say,

nowhere near as much as Bush.

> Uh, George, I don't think Jesus would favor the death penalty, screwing

the

> poor to give tax cuts to the rich, and attacking a country so you can take

> their oil. I don't think Jesus would approve of your sucking up to

> moneychangers--the only folks he truly hated--or your disdain for women,

> gays, and minorities.

Well said! :-)

> If more Christians were like Jimmy Carter, the religion might not get such

a

> bad rap. No wonder I'm agnostic.

I think there's a vast variety of people in all religions - it just so

happens that most of the people who strive to get into power tend to be

b*****ds, so whichever religion they come from, they're going to give it a

bad name.

BB

Peter

---

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January 21, 2003

Hi Fraggle / Nikki / anyone

> and ya know wot, ALL OF EM DO IT!!

Of course, the whole thing with Lewinsky is really put into perspective when

you read the accusations against Clinton (and other US bigwigs) in " Trance

Formations of America " !

BB

Peter

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January 22, 2003

I don't remember seeing any Jesus signs, but someone had a sign that said he

was pro-life, with an asterisk. The asterisk said something like only under

certain conditions. I found it supremely ironic that on Wednesday, he will

doubtless give a speech about the sanctity of life--while he's planning to

bomb a country into oblivion, if he has to, in order to get a madman.

I won't mention his absolute relish for the death penalty or his photo-op

with the National Cattlemen's Beef Association.

Danielle

----Original Message Follows----

EBbrewpunx

Re: Environmentalists Against the War

Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:58:14 -0500

one of my fave banners on saturday

" who would jesus bomb? "

" Danielle Kichler " <veggietart wrote:

>Did he claim to be Christian? I don't think he made a big deal about his

>religion, at least not the way W. and other Republicans do.

>

>Uh, George, I don't think Jesus would favor the death penalty, screwing

the

>poor to give tax cuts to the rich, and attacking a country so you can take

>their oil. I don't think Jesus would approve of your sucking up to

>moneychangers--the only folks he truly hated--or your disdain for women,

>gays, and minorities.

>

>If more Christians were like Jimmy Carter, the religion might not get such

a

>bad rap. No wonder I'm agnostic.

>

>Danielle

>

>----Original Message Follows----

> " Heartwork " <Heartwork

>

>Re: Environmentalists Against the War

>Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:50:00 -0000

>

>If you have an agreement I suppose it is okay, but it didn't seem like

there

>was an agreement, and it certainly hurt their daughter one hell of a lot -

>not the way to behave if you care about your kids! Also doesn't he claim

to

>be Christian. Christian marriages usually promise to be faithful so he

has

>broken that promise as well.

>

>Jo

>

> > ok, wild thought here

> > how do you know its a lie..wot if so and so have an understanding?

" sure,

>go have a toss with that cheerleader, just make sure you wear a condom.. "

>

>---

>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

>Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release 30/12/02

>

> " Where is the questioning where is the protest song?

>Since when is skepticism un-American?

>Dissent's not treason but they talk like it's the same

>Those who disagree are afraid to show their face " --Sleater-Kinney

>

>_______________

>Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.

>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

>

>To send an email to -

>

January 22, 2003

Peter--the head count or the mercury reading? hee hee.

I hope we got lots of coverage around the world, more coverage than in the

US. I want the world to know that not everybody is a twit like our supposed

" leaders. "

Oh, I also saw signs touting solar power. That might not work in San

Francisco (when I lived in San Jose and the Giants still played at 3Com, I

heard the joke was you needed to pack a change of clothes if you attended a

game there) or New England, it would work in what is called the sunbelt (the

Southeast, which gets a lot of sun). Wind energy might work in Chicago.

Danielle

----Original Message Follows----

" Peter " <Snowbow

Re: Environmentalists Against the War

Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:04:49 -0000

Hi Danielle

> The Park Police doesn't do official estimates anymore, but one

estimate--not

> from them--was 500,000. DC Police just said there were an awful lot of

> people. It was incredibly cold, too, in the mid-20s.

Wow - that's fantastic. It gives London something to aim for in February :-)

BB

Peter

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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" Where is the questioning where is the protest song?

Since when is skepticism un-American?

Dissent's not treason but they talk like it's the same

Those who disagree are afraid to show their face " --Sleater-Kinney

_______________

Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*

http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

January 22, 2003

Peter,

You're right: there are good people and bad people to be found in all

religions, but it seems the biggest momzers are the ones who claim to be

Christian. Maybe it's the number of so-called Christians in public life, as

opposed to Jews or Muslims in public life. Most of the ones in public life

tend to be megaschmucks.

Danielle

----Original Message Follows----

" Peter " <Snowbow

Re: Environmentalists Against the War

Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:07:47 -0000

Hi Danielle

> Did he claim to be Christian? I don't think he made a big deal about his

> religion, at least not the way W. and other Republicans do.

I was pretty sure that he did claim to be Christian - but as you say,

nowhere near as much as Bush.

> Uh, George, I don't think Jesus would favor the death penalty, screwing

the

> poor to give tax cuts to the rich, and attacking a country so you can

take

> their oil. I don't think Jesus would approve of your sucking up to

> moneychangers--the only folks he truly hated--or your disdain for women,

> gays, and minorities.

Well said! :-)

> If more Christians were like Jimmy Carter, the religion might not get

such

a

> bad rap. No wonder I'm agnostic.

I think there's a vast variety of people in all religions - it just so

happens that most of the people who strive to get into power tend to be

b*****ds, so whichever religion they come from, they're going to give it a

bad name.

BB

Peter

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

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" Where is the questioning where is the protest song?

Since when is skepticism un-American?

Dissent's not treason but they talk like it's the same

Those who disagree are afraid to show their face " --Sleater-Kinney

_______________

MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.

http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

January 22, 2003

Hi Danielle

I thought solar power worked from the daylight rather than just bright

sunshine - but I could be wrong.

Jo

Oh, I also saw signs touting solar power. That might not work in San

> Francisco (when I lived in San Jose and the Giants still played at 3Com, I

> heard the joke was you needed to pack a change of clothes if you attended

a

> game there) or New England, it would work in what is called the sunbelt

(the

> Southeast, which gets a lot of sun). Wind energy might work in Chicago.

---

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January 22, 2003

Hi Jo!

Excused, welcomed and thank you!

Nikki

, " Peter " <Snowbow@b...> wrote:

> Here here (if you'll excuse the typical English retort)

>

> Jo

>

> > And some might call that a racist statement

> >

> > So now it is all her fault? Why is it none of anyone's business

when

> > we talk about Clinton and it is yer right to slam when we talk

about

> > her? Is that fair?

> >

> > As far as I am concerned, it is over and we wasted enough damn

tax

> > money on the whole issue. They are both to blame because they

were

> > both present and consenting. Neither one is better or worse than

the

> > other. Just like you and I.

> >

> > Whether silly, Jewish or plump!

> >

> > nikki

>

> ---

> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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January 22, 2003

Good Morning Danielle!

I think that is absolutely wonderful and spirit lifting!

What amazes me is that every time we protest these things, the media

looks in wonder and comments on how amazed they are at the amount of

people who show up. As if they never expected so many people to

protest something.

Thanks for being one of those great people!

Nikki

, " Danielle Kichler "

<veggietart@h...> wrote:

> Washington, DC, in January--that would be 20s fahrenheit. I'm a

Yank, so

> that's how I measure things. Maybe I should have said well below

freezing.

> That really makes it amazing: how many people are willing to go

out in

> freezing weather to protest this stupid oil war.

>

> Danielle

>

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