Guest guest Report post Posted April 21, 2001 i found demos too difficult when the kids were very young around 10 was ok but by 13 they then objected cos they got bored.16+ seems to be a good age when they can understand all the implications and make friends Angie - " Lesley Dove " <100706.3632 <vegan-network > Friday, April 20, 2001 11:10 PM Re: hello > > We live in too tiny a flat to be " open house " unfortunately (only two > bedrooms, one of which is full of junk so we sleep on a sofa-bed in > the living room (new baby will be in there with us for a while, until > s/he goes through the night regularly) and the kids have the small > bedroom, but when we get round to moving somewhere bigger things will > most likely change. > I wouldn't dream of criticising a person for having bigger priorities > than housework! > We are in rather a mess, too cluttered and I need to sort it out, I > need to have a really ruthless clear out, and I have finally started > in preparation for the new baby. I've never been a housework expert, > my mum wasn't into housework either so we lived in clutter, she was > active in animal welfare and rehoming of dogs and cats, although she > has never been veggie. Sometimes the clutter gets me down and I do > something about it. I'll be like a whirlwind for a few days but then > go back to my old habits of letting it all pile up. I am trying to > change, because with so little space, and baby no.3 later this year, > I have to be more organised. > We don't get on many demos but I fully intend to be more active in AR > again when the kids are older. They whinge too much on demos, don't > like the noise of shrill whistles and having to walk a long way, > although they are happy about their vegan identity, and want other > people to be vegan too. > > Lesley > > > > My house is always a tip I'm not into living in a palace too busy > going on > > demos in what little spare time I get,But any veganwho wont > criticise is > > welcome anytime.I dont expect vegans to criticise but I have Known > animal > > eaters to do so .Another reason why I dont like them!In other words > My place > > is open house to vegans. Angie > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 21, 2001 I tend to regard vegans as part of an extended family or like members of the same club so i feel the need to get to know them and offer advice/help if necessary[Actually I also feelthe same when I see someone with Downs Syndrome{my son has it] as if we are linked together and I always introduce myself.] In both cases its a compulsion that I can't ignore,after all the other person may be struggling and need a friend -angie---- Original Message ----- " Lesley Dove " <100706.3632 <vegan-network > Friday, April 20, 2001 11:19 PM Re: hello > > I'm sure most vegans are pleasant company, but there are quite a lot > of vegans and vegetarians in Harrow who just never come to anything I > organise and don't seem very motivated to be sociable. I find this > very frustrating as I want to know these people. I don't understand > why some of these vegans seem to make more effort for meat-eating > friends than they make to get to make friends with other vegans > locally. They have quite strange priorities it seems to me! We should > definitely stick together and be positive that we are likely to like > other vegans! I couldn't agree with you more. > > Lesley > > > > I can't remember any vegans whose company I didn't like----Except > my EX and > > it took me some years to come to that conclusion!! Vegans are so > few in > > number it seems a shame to consider the possibility of not liking > them . > > Think poitive By definition ,if you're a vegan you're a great > person to > > know! Angie > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 21, 2001 It's really uncanny, the way we see vegans, I feel so exactly the same as you do about my fellow vegans, I believe that we have to be a real community to each other (and I fell the same about vegetarians to a certain extent). I have felt this more strongly in the last few years since havign kids and becoming more isolated from my previous friends in London Vegans. I get quite depressed when I meet or email other vegans locally who turn out to be standoffish and don't want to be close friends with their fellow local vegans! I don't care if meat- eaters are unfriendly and standoffish, because I am that way with them to some extent, but I am still puzzled by some vegans who don't share our attitude. It's good to know I am not the only vegan feeling this way, when I try to explain it to these other vegans, I get the feeling some of them think I am nuts! Lesley > I tend to regard vegans as part of an extended family or like members of the > same club so i feel the need to get to know them and offer advice/help if > necessary[Actually I also feelthe same when I see someone with Downs > Syndrome{my son has it] as if we are linked together and I always introduce > myself.] In both cases its a compulsion that I can't ignore,after all the > other person may be struggling and need a friend Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 2, 2001 My only worry with demos is having my daughter shot by their plastic bullets .. The police nearly killed her with CS gas and truncheons when I last went on one (J18, 2 yrs ago,) so can't afford to stand in the front line with her any more. Hooray for all the people who went yesterday and stood up for the things I believe in on my behalf yesterday., H. - " Angie Wright " <angiewright <vegan-network > Saturday, April 21, 2001 12:29 AM Re: hello > i found demos too difficult when the kids were very young > > around 10 was ok but by 13 they then objected cos they got bored.16+ seems > to be a good age when they can understand all the implications and make > friends Angie > > > > > > - > " Lesley Dove " <100706.3632 > <vegan-network > > Friday, April 20, 2001 11:10 PM > Re: hello > > > > > > We live in too tiny a flat to be " open house " unfortunately (only two > > bedrooms, one of which is full of junk so we sleep on a sofa-bed in > > the living room (new baby will be in there with us for a while, until > > s/he goes through the night regularly) and the kids have the small > > bedroom, but when we get round to moving somewhere bigger things will > > most likely change. > > I wouldn't dream of criticising a person for having bigger priorities > > than housework! > > We are in rather a mess, too cluttered and I need to sort it out, I > > need to have a really ruthless clear out, and I have finally started > > in preparation for the new baby. I've never been a housework expert, > > my mum wasn't into housework either so we lived in clutter, she was > > active in animal welfare and rehoming of dogs and cats, although she > > has never been veggie. Sometimes the clutter gets me down and I do > > something about it. I'll be like a whirlwind for a few days but then > > go back to my old habits of letting it all pile up. I am trying to > > change, because with so little space, and baby no.3 later this year, > > I have to be more organised. > > We don't get on many demos but I fully intend to be more active in AR > > again when the kids are older. They whinge too much on demos, don't > > like the noise of shrill whistles and having to walk a long way, > > although they are happy about their vegan identity, and want other > > people to be vegan too. > > > > Lesley > > > > > > > My house is always a tip I'm not into living in a palace too busy > > going on > > > demos in what little spare time I get,But any veganwho wont > > criticise is > > > welcome anytime.I dont expect vegans to criticise but I have Known > > animal > > > eaters to do so .Another reason why I dont like them!In other words > > My place > > > is open house to vegans. Angie > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 2, 2001 Personally I think that yesterday was a complete waste of Police resources and the violence was an embarrassment to our country. I felt extremely sorry for the Police horses as well. Just my opinion. Just what did it achieve?! Jane - " Hannah Biddle " <hannah <vegan-network > Wednesday, May 02, 2001 10:25 AM Re: hello > My only worry with demos is having my daughter shot by their plastic bullets > . > The police nearly killed her with CS gas and truncheons when I last went on > one (J18, 2 yrs ago,) so can't afford to stand in the front line with her > any more. > Hooray for all the people who went yesterday and stood up for the things I > believe in on my behalf yesterday., > > H. > - > " Angie Wright " <angiewright > <vegan-network > > Saturday, April 21, 2001 12:29 AM > Re: hello > > > > i found demos too difficult when the kids were very young > > > > around 10 was ok but by 13 they then objected cos they got bored.16+ seems > > to be a good age when they can understand all the implications and make > > friends Angie > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > " Lesley Dove " <100706.3632 > > <vegan-network > > > Friday, April 20, 2001 11:10 PM > > Re: hello > > > > > > > > > > We live in too tiny a flat to be " open house " unfortunately (only two > > > bedrooms, one of which is full of junk so we sleep on a sofa-bed in > > > the living room (new baby will be in there with us for a while, until > > > s/he goes through the night regularly) and the kids have the small > > > bedroom, but when we get round to moving somewhere bigger things will > > > most likely change. > > > I wouldn't dream of criticising a person for having bigger priorities > > > than housework! > > > We are in rather a mess, too cluttered and I need to sort it out, I > > > need to have a really ruthless clear out, and I have finally started > > > in preparation for the new baby. I've never been a housework expert, > > > my mum wasn't into housework either so we lived in clutter, she was > > > active in animal welfare and rehoming of dogs and cats, although she > > > has never been veggie. Sometimes the clutter gets me down and I do > > > something about it. I'll be like a whirlwind for a few days but then > > > go back to my old habits of letting it all pile up. I am trying to > > > change, because with so little space, and baby no.3 later this year, > > > I have to be more organised. > > > We don't get on many demos but I fully intend to be more active in AR > > > again when the kids are older. They whinge too much on demos, don't > > > like the noise of shrill whistles and having to walk a long way, > > > although they are happy about their vegan identity, and want other > > > people to be vegan too. > > > > > > Lesley > > > > > > > > > > My house is always a tip I'm not into living in a palace too busy > > > going on > > > > demos in what little spare time I get,But any veganwho wont > > > criticise is > > > > welcome anytime.I dont expect vegans to criticise but I have Known > > > animal > > > > eaters to do so .Another reason why I dont like them!In other words > > > My place > > > > is open house to vegans. Angie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 3, 2001 I agree...the protest was quite pathetic...a bit like red nose day, where all the twats who do nothing all year make a big fuss for one day and feel better about their empty existence. MrBig >Personally I think that yesterday was a complete waste of Police resources >and the violence was an embarrassment to our country. I felt extremely >sorry for the Police horses as well. Just my opinion. Just what did it >achieve?! > _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 3, 2001 It shows that there are (official figures) ten thousand people, plus those who support them, in this country (plus ofcourse those who demonstrated throughout the world in other cities) that object to the way in which freemarket capitalism currently exploits people and the environment, and enslaves people in the 'developping world' through debt, military governments and the mismanagement of the environment. This includes the exploitation of animals through the meat industry etc. This involves a wide variety of different organisations and groups, who have these interests as a common thread. There's nothing quite like being there yourself. Unless you go, you don't see for yourself the extent of the violence of the police (who 'control' this country, or feel the collective strength of those who wish to fight back against oppression and build something new. - " Jane Cuming " <jane.cuming <vegan-network > Wednesday, May 02, 2001 7:23 PM Re: hello > Personally I think that yesterday was a complete waste of Police resources > and the violence was an embarrassment to our country. I felt extremely > sorry for the Police horses as well. Just my opinion. Just what did it > achieve?! > > Jane > > > - > " Hannah Biddle " <hannah > <vegan-network > > Wednesday, May 02, 2001 10:25 AM > Re: hello > > > > My only worry with demos is having my daughter shot by their plastic > bullets > > . > > The police nearly killed her with CS gas and truncheons when I last went > on > > one (J18, 2 yrs ago,) so can't afford to stand in the front line with her > > any more. > > Hooray for all the people who went yesterday and stood up for the things I > > believe in on my behalf yesterday., > > > > H. > > - > > " Angie Wright " <angiewright > > <vegan-network > > > Saturday, April 21, 2001 12:29 AM > > Re: hello > > > > > > > i found demos too difficult when the kids were very young > > > > > > around 10 was ok but by 13 they then objected cos they got bored.16+ > seems > > > to be a good age when they can understand all the implications and make > > > friends Angie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > " Lesley Dove " <100706.3632 > > > <vegan-network > > > > Friday, April 20, 2001 11:10 PM > > > Re: hello > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We live in too tiny a flat to be " open house " unfortunately (only two > > > > bedrooms, one of which is full of junk so we sleep on a sofa-bed in > > > > the living room (new baby will be in there with us for a while, until > > > > s/he goes through the night regularly) and the kids have the small > > > > bedroom, but when we get round to moving somewhere bigger things will > > > > most likely change. > > > > I wouldn't dream of criticising a person for having bigger priorities > > > > than housework! > > > > We are in rather a mess, too cluttered and I need to sort it out, I > > > > need to have a really ruthless clear out, and I have finally started > > > > in preparation for the new baby. I've never been a housework expert, > > > > my mum wasn't into housework either so we lived in clutter, she was > > > > active in animal welfare and rehoming of dogs and cats, although she > > > > has never been veggie. Sometimes the clutter gets me down and I do > > > > something about it. I'll be like a whirlwind for a few days but then > > > > go back to my old habits of letting it all pile up. I am trying to > > > > change, because with so little space, and baby no.3 later this year, > > > > I have to be more organised. > > > > We don't get on many demos but I fully intend to be more active in AR > > > > again when the kids are older. They whinge too much on demos, don't > > > > like the noise of shrill whistles and having to walk a long way, > > > > although they are happy about their vegan identity, and want other > > > > people to be vegan too. > > > > > > > > Lesley > > > > > > > > > > > > > My house is always a tip I'm not into living in a palace too busy > > > > going on > > > > > demos in what little spare time I get,But any veganwho wont > > > > criticise is > > > > > welcome anytime.I dont expect vegans to criticise but I have Known > > > > animal > > > > > eaters to do so .Another reason why I dont like them!In other words > > > > My place > > > > > is open house to vegans. Angie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 3, 2001 It is the choice of the police to use horses, not the choice of the protestors. - " Jane Cuming " <jane.cuming <vegan-network > Wednesday, May 02, 2001 7:23 PM Re: hello > Personally I think that yesterday was a complete waste of Police resources > and the violence was an embarrassment to our country. I felt extremely > sorry for the Police horses as well. Just my opinion. Just what did it > achieve?! > > Jane > > > - > " Hannah Biddle " <hannah > <vegan-network > > Wednesday, May 02, 2001 10:25 AM > Re: hello > > > > My only worry with demos is having my daughter shot by their plastic > bullets > > . > > The police nearly killed her with CS gas and truncheons when I last went > on > > one (J18, 2 yrs ago,) so can't afford to stand in the front line with her > > any more. > > Hooray for all the people who went yesterday and stood up for the things I > > believe in on my behalf yesterday., > > > > H. > > - > > " Angie Wright " <angiewright > > <vegan-network > > > Saturday, April 21, 2001 12:29 AM > > Re: hello > > > > > > > i found demos too difficult when the kids were very young > > > > > > around 10 was ok but by 13 they then objected cos they got bored.16+ > seems > > > to be a good age when they can understand all the implications and make > > > friends Angie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > " Lesley Dove " <100706.3632 > > > <vegan-network > > > > Friday, April 20, 2001 11:10 PM > > > Re: hello > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We live in too tiny a flat to be " open house " unfortunately (only two > > > > bedrooms, one of which is full of junk so we sleep on a sofa-bed in > > > > the living room (new baby will be in there with us for a while, until > > > > s/he goes through the night regularly) and the kids have the small > > > > bedroom, but when we get round to moving somewhere bigger things will > > > > most likely change. > > > > I wouldn't dream of criticising a person for having bigger priorities > > > > than housework! > > > > We are in rather a mess, too cluttered and I need to sort it out, I > > > > need to have a really ruthless clear out, and I have finally started > > > > in preparation for the new baby. I've never been a housework expert, > > > > my mum wasn't into housework either so we lived in clutter, she was > > > > active in animal welfare and rehoming of dogs and cats, although she > > > > has never been veggie. Sometimes the clutter gets me down and I do > > > > something about it. I'll be like a whirlwind for a few days but then > > > > go back to my old habits of letting it all pile up. I am trying to > > > > change, because with so little space, and baby no.3 later this year, > > > > I have to be more organised. > > > > We don't get on many demos but I fully intend to be more active in AR > > > > again when the kids are older. They whinge too much on demos, don't > > > > like the noise of shrill whistles and having to walk a long way, > > > > although they are happy about their vegan identity, and want other > > > > people to be vegan too. > > > > > > > > Lesley > > > > > > > > > > > > > My house is always a tip I'm not into living in a palace too busy > > > > going on > > > > > demos in what little spare time I get,But any veganwho wont > > > > criticise is > > > > > welcome anytime.I dont expect vegans to criticise but I have Known > > > > animal > > > > > eaters to do so .Another reason why I dont like them!In other words > > > > My place > > > > > is open house to vegans. Angie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 3, 2001 All I will say about the police is if I were protesting and felt the police were being heavy handed, I'd Jitsuka their pucker. http://www.jitsufoundation.demon.co.uk It was developed in Japan for use on the battlefield when one lost his weapon. As Samurai and the ilk had armour, kicks and punches are useless. Therefore breaking arms/legs/necks (you'd be surprised how easy it is) was the only way to defeat an armed/unarmed opponent. Police in riot gear? Bring em on. Hannah Biddle [hannah] 03 May 2001 12:35 vegan-network Re: hello It is the choice of the police to use horses, not the choice of the protestors. - " Jane Cuming " <jane.cuming <vegan-network > Wednesday, May 02, 2001 7:23 PM Re: hello > Personally I think that yesterday was a complete waste of Police resources > and the violence was an embarrassment to our country. I felt extremely > sorry for the Police horses as well. Just my opinion. Just what did it > achieve?! > > Jane > > > - > " Hannah Biddle " <hannah > <vegan-network > > Wednesday, May 02, 2001 10:25 AM > Re: hello > > > > My only worry with demos is having my daughter shot by their plastic > bullets > > . > > The police nearly killed her with CS gas and truncheons when I last went > on > > one (J18, 2 yrs ago,) so can't afford to stand in the front line with her > > any more. > > Hooray for all the people who went yesterday and stood up for the things I > > believe in on my behalf yesterday., > > > > H. > > - > > " Angie Wright " <angiewright > > <vegan-network > > > Saturday, April 21, 2001 12:29 AM > > Re: hello > > > > > > > i found demos too difficult when the kids were very young > > > > > > around 10 was ok but by 13 they then objected cos they got bored.16+ > seems > > > to be a good age when they can understand all the implications and make > > > friends Angie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > " Lesley Dove " <100706.3632 > > > <vegan-network > > > > Friday, April 20, 2001 11:10 PM > > > Re: hello > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We live in too tiny a flat to be " open house " unfortunately (only two > > > > bedrooms, one of which is full of junk so we sleep on a sofa-bed in > > > > the living room (new baby will be in there with us for a while, until > > > > s/he goes through the night regularly) and the kids have the small > > > > bedroom, but when we get round to moving somewhere bigger things will > > > > most likely change. > > > > I wouldn't dream of criticising a person for having bigger priorities > > > > than housework! > > > > We are in rather a mess, too cluttered and I need to sort it out, I > > > > need to have a really ruthless clear out, and I have finally started > > > > in preparation for the new baby. I've never been a housework expert, > > > > my mum wasn't into housework either so we lived in clutter, she was > > > > active in animal welfare and rehoming of dogs and cats, although she > > > > has never been veggie. Sometimes the clutter gets me down and I do > > > > something about it. I'll be like a whirlwind for a few days but then > > > > go back to my old habits of letting it all pile up. I am trying to > > > > change, because with so little space, and baby no.3 later this year, > > > > I have to be more organised. > > > > We don't get on many demos but I fully intend to be more active in AR > > > > again when the kids are older. They whinge too much on demos, don't > > > > like the noise of shrill whistles and having to walk a long way, > > > > although they are happy about their vegan identity, and want other > > > > people to be vegan too. > > > > > > > > Lesley > > > > > > > > > > > > > My house is always a tip I'm not into living in a palace too busy > > > > going on > > > > > demos in what little spare time I get,But any veganwho wont > > > > criticise is > > > > > welcome anytime.I dont expect vegans to criticise but I have Known > > > > animal > > > > > eaters to do so .Another reason why I dont like them!In other words > > > > My place > > > > > is open house to vegans. Angie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 3, 2001 If the Police weren't there on Tuesday to " handle " the situation, then they would have been blamed. Everyone blames everyone for everything in this world. They would have been wrong to be there and equally they would have been wrong if they had stayed away. We're all human - not perfect! I still think it was a complete waste of police resources and the money could have been well spent elsewhere. You talk about the amount of wastage in this world, but this is an excellent example of waste - waste of time and money! - " Hannah Biddle " <hannah <vegan-network > Thursday, May 03, 2001 12:34 PM Re: hello > It shows that there are (official figures) ten thousand people, plus those > who support them, in this country (plus ofcourse those who demonstrated > throughout the world in other cities) that object to the way in which > freemarket capitalism currently exploits people and the environment, and > enslaves people in the 'developping world' through debt, military > governments and the mismanagement of the environment. This includes the > exploitation of animals through the meat industry etc. This involves a wide > variety of different organisations and groups, who have these interests as a > common thread. There's nothing quite like being there yourself. Unless you > go, you don't see for yourself the extent of the violence of the police (who > 'control' this country, or feel the collective strength of those who wish to > fight back against oppression and build something new. > > - > " Jane Cuming " <jane.cuming > <vegan-network > > Wednesday, May 02, 2001 7:23 PM > Re: hello > > > > Personally I think that yesterday was a complete waste of Police resources > > and the violence was an embarrassment to our country. I felt extremely > > sorry for the Police horses as well. Just my opinion. Just what did it > > achieve?! > > > > Jane > > > > > > - > > " Hannah Biddle " <hannah > > <vegan-network > > > Wednesday, May 02, 2001 10:25 AM > > Re: hello > > > > > > > My only worry with demos is having my daughter shot by their plastic > > bullets > > > . > > > The police nearly killed her with CS gas and truncheons when I last went > > on > > > one (J18, 2 yrs ago,) so can't afford to stand in the front line with > her > > > any more. > > > Hooray for all the people who went yesterday and stood up for the things > I > > > believe in on my behalf yesterday., > > > > > > H. > > > - > > > " Angie Wright " <angiewright > > > <vegan-network > > > > Saturday, April 21, 2001 12:29 AM > > > Re: hello > > > > > > > > > > i found demos too difficult when the kids were very young > > > > > > > > around 10 was ok but by 13 they then objected cos they got bored.16+ > > seems > > > > to be a good age when they can understand all the implications and > make > > > > friends Angie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > " Lesley Dove " <100706.3632 > > > > <vegan-network > > > > > Friday, April 20, 2001 11:10 PM > > > > Re: hello > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We live in too tiny a flat to be " open house " unfortunately (only > two > > > > > bedrooms, one of which is full of junk so we sleep on a sofa-bed in > > > > > the living room (new baby will be in there with us for a while, > until > > > > > s/he goes through the night regularly) and the kids have the small > > > > > bedroom, but when we get round to moving somewhere bigger things > will > > > > > most likely change. > > > > > I wouldn't dream of criticising a person for having bigger > priorities > > > > > than housework! > > > > > We are in rather a mess, too cluttered and I need to sort it out, I > > > > > need to have a really ruthless clear out, and I have finally started > > > > > in preparation for the new baby. I've never been a housework expert, > > > > > my mum wasn't into housework either so we lived in clutter, she was > > > > > active in animal welfare and rehoming of dogs and cats, although she > > > > > has never been veggie. Sometimes the clutter gets me down and I do > > > > > something about it. I'll be like a whirlwind for a few days but then > > > > > go back to my old habits of letting it all pile up. I am trying to > > > > > change, because with so little space, and baby no.3 later this year, > > > > > I have to be more organised. > > > > > We don't get on many demos but I fully intend to be more active in > AR > > > > > again when the kids are older. They whinge too much on demos, don't > > > > > like the noise of shrill whistles and having to walk a long way, > > > > > although they are happy about their vegan identity, and want other > > > > > people to be vegan too. > > > > > > > > > > Lesley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My house is always a tip I'm not into living in a palace too busy > > > > > going on > > > > > > demos in what little spare time I get,But any veganwho wont > > > > > criticise is > > > > > > welcome anytime.I dont expect vegans to criticise but I have Known > > > > > animal > > > > > > eaters to do so .Another reason why I dont like them!In other > words > > > > > My place > > > > > > is open house to vegans. Angie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2001 Everyone has their own view - but every time I have ever witnessed police violence, it has been the police who have caused it - my brother is a policemann and he is the most violent man I know. People are attracted to it for the power. I went to early RTS street parties- a few years back - there was hardly any police prescence, and no violence at all, just dancing and cake and people sharing good will and support about common beliefs. Suprise Suprise when the police turn up there is violence: this time they publicised it in advance as a riot and told peaceful people not to come - so that only the violent can turn up, thus proving their point if there is violence - thus making a sham out of honest people making a fair point. I agree - there has to be a better way to protest - since the media & police have managed to change what was once a really effective way of demonstrating. Anyway - I shan't write any more on the subject as its not about veganism. Mail me directly if you want to chat about it. Hannah. - " Jane Cuming " <jane.cuming <vegan-network > Thursday, May 03, 2001 10:52 PM Re: hello > If the Police weren't there on Tuesday to " handle " the situation, then they > would have been blamed. Everyone blames everyone for everything in this > world. They would have been wrong to be there and equally they would have > been wrong if they had stayed away. We're all human - not perfect! > > I still think it was a complete waste of police resources and the money > could have been well spent elsewhere. You talk about the amount of wastage > in this world, but this is an excellent example of waste - waste of time and > money! > - > " Hannah Biddle " <hannah > <vegan-network > > Thursday, May 03, 2001 12:34 PM > Re: hello > > > > It shows that there are (official figures) ten thousand people, plus those > > who support them, in this country (plus ofcourse those who demonstrated > > throughout the world in other cities) that object to the way in which > > freemarket capitalism currently exploits people and the environment, and > > enslaves people in the 'developping world' through debt, military > > governments and the mismanagement of the environment. This includes the > > exploitation of animals through the meat industry etc. This involves a > wide > > variety of different organisations and groups, who have these interests as > a > > common thread. There's nothing quite like being there yourself. Unless you > > go, you don't see for yourself the extent of the violence of the police > (who > > 'control' this country, or feel the collective strength of those who wish > to > > fight back against oppression and build something new. > > > > - > > " Jane Cuming " <jane.cuming > > <vegan-network > > > Wednesday, May 02, 2001 7:23 PM > > Re: hello > > > > > > > Personally I think that yesterday was a complete waste of Police > resources > > > and the violence was an embarrassment to our country. I felt extremely > > > sorry for the Police horses as well. Just my opinion. Just what did it > > > achieve?! > > > > > > Jane > > > > > > > > > - > > > " Hannah Biddle " <hannah > > > <vegan-network > > > > Wednesday, May 02, 2001 10:25 AM > > > Re: hello > > > > > > > > > > My only worry with demos is having my daughter shot by their plastic > > > bullets > > > > . > > > > The police nearly killed her with CS gas and truncheons when I last > went > > > on > > > > one (J18, 2 yrs ago,) so can't afford to stand in the front line with > > her > > > > any more. > > > > Hooray for all the people who went yesterday and stood up for the > things > > I > > > > believe in on my behalf yesterday., > > > > > > > > H. > > > > - > > > > " Angie Wright " <angiewright > > > > <vegan-network > > > > > Saturday, April 21, 2001 12:29 AM > > > > Re: hello > > > > > > > > > > > > > i found demos too difficult when the kids were very young > > > > > > > > > > around 10 was ok but by 13 they then objected cos they got bored.16+ > > > seems > > > > > to be a good age when they can understand all the implications and > > make > > > > > friends Angie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > " Lesley Dove " <100706.3632 > > > > > <vegan-network > > > > > > Friday, April 20, 2001 11:10 PM > > > > > Re: hello > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We live in too tiny a flat to be " open house " unfortunately (only > > two > > > > > > bedrooms, one of which is full of junk so we sleep on a sofa-bed > in > > > > > > the living room (new baby will be in there with us for a while, > > until > > > > > > s/he goes through the night regularly) and the kids have the small > > > > > > bedroom, but when we get round to moving somewhere bigger things > > will > > > > > > most likely change. > > > > > > I wouldn't dream of criticising a person for having bigger > > priorities > > > > > > than housework! > > > > > > We are in rather a mess, too cluttered and I need to sort it out, > I > > > > > > need to have a really ruthless clear out, and I have finally > started > > > > > > in preparation for the new baby. I've never been a housework > expert, > > > > > > my mum wasn't into housework either so we lived in clutter, she > was > > > > > > active in animal welfare and rehoming of dogs and cats, although > she > > > > > > has never been veggie. Sometimes the clutter gets me down and I do > > > > > > something about it. I'll be like a whirlwind for a few days but > then > > > > > > go back to my old habits of letting it all pile up. I am trying to > > > > > > change, because with so little space, and baby no.3 later this > year, > > > > > > I have to be more organised. > > > > > > We don't get on many demos but I fully intend to be more active in > > AR > > > > > > again when the kids are older. They whinge too much on demos, > don't > > > > > > like the noise of shrill whistles and having to walk a long way, > > > > > > although they are happy about their vegan identity, and want other > > > > > > people to be vegan too. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lesley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My house is always a tip I'm not into living in a palace too > busy > > > > > > going on > > > > > > > demos in what little spare time I get,But any veganwho wont > > > > > > criticise is > > > > > > > welcome anytime.I dont expect vegans to criticise but I have > Known > > > > > > animal > > > > > > > eaters to do so .Another reason why I dont like them!In other > > words > > > > > > My place > > > > > > > is open house to vegans. Angie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 5, 2001 Making the police waste money is one way to get the cause noticed,A.R. demos that bring lots of police put pressure on the government. It may make them alter some of their laws eventually What would you do thats better Nothing????? Angie - " Jane Cuming " <jane.cuming <vegan-network > Thursday, May 03, 2001 10:52 PM Re: hello > If the Police weren't there on Tuesday to " handle " the situation, then they > would have been blamed. Everyone blames everyone for everything in this > world. They would have been wrong to be there and equally they would have > been wrong if they had stayed away. We're all human - not perfect! > > I still think it was a complete waste of police resources and the money > could have been well spent elsewhere. You talk about the amount of wastage > in this world, but this is an excellent example of waste - waste of time and > money! > - > " Hannah Biddle " <hannah > <vegan-network > > Thursday, May 03, 2001 12:34 PM > Re: hello > > > > It shows that there are (official figures) ten thousand people, plus those > > who support them, in this country (plus ofcourse those who demonstrated > > throughout the world in other cities) that object to the way in which > > freemarket capitalism currently exploits people and the environment, and > > enslaves people in the 'developping world' through debt, military > > governments and the mismanagement of the environment. This includes the > > exploitation of animals through the meat industry etc. This involves a > wide > > variety of different organisations and groups, who have these interests as > a > > common thread. There's nothing quite like being there yourself. Unless you > > go, you don't see for yourself the extent of the violence of the police > (who > > 'control' this country, or feel the collective strength of those who wish > to > > fight back against oppression and build something new. > > > > - > > " Jane Cuming " <jane.cuming > > <vegan-network > > > Wednesday, May 02, 2001 7:23 PM > > Re: hello > > > > > > > Personally I think that yesterday was a complete waste of Police > resources > > > and the violence was an embarrassment to our country. I felt extremely > > > sorry for the Police horses as well. Just my opinion. Just what did it > > > achieve?! > > > > > > Jane > > > > > > > > > - > > > " Hannah Biddle " <hannah > > > <vegan-network > > > > Wednesday, May 02, 2001 10:25 AM > > > Re: hello > > > > > > > > > > My only worry with demos is having my daughter shot by their plastic > > > bullets > > > > . > > > > The police nearly killed her with CS gas and truncheons when I last > went > > > on > > > > one (J18, 2 yrs ago,) so can't afford to stand in the front line with > > her > > > > any more. > > > > Hooray for all the people who went yesterday and stood up for the > things > > I > > > > believe in on my behalf yesterday., > > > > > > > > H. > > > > - > > > > " Angie Wright " <angiewright > > > > <vegan-network > > > > > Saturday, April 21, 2001 12:29 AM > > > > Re: hello > > > > > > > > > > > > > i found demos too difficult when the kids were very young > > > > > > > > > > around 10 was ok but by 13 they then objected cos they got bored.16+ > > > seems > > > > > to be a good age when they can understand all the implications and > > make > > > > > friends Angie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > " Lesley Dove " <100706.3632 > > > > > <vegan-network > > > > > > Friday, April 20, 2001 11:10 PM > > > > > Re: hello > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We live in too tiny a flat to be " open house " unfortunately (only > > two > > > > > > bedrooms, one of which is full of junk so we sleep on a sofa-bed > in > > > > > > the living room (new baby will be in there with us for a while, > > until > > > > > > s/he goes through the night regularly) and the kids have the small > > > > > > bedroom, but when we get round to moving somewhere bigger things > > will > > > > > > most likely change. > > > > > > I wouldn't dream of criticising a person for having bigger > > priorities > > > > > > than housework! > > > > > > We are in rather a mess, too cluttered and I need to sort it out, > I > > > > > > need to have a really ruthless clear out, and I have finally > started > > > > > > in preparation for the new baby. I've never been a housework > expert, > > > > > > my mum wasn't into housework either so we lived in clutter, she > was > > > > > > active in animal welfare and rehoming of dogs and cats, although > she > > > > > > has never been veggie. Sometimes the clutter gets me down and I do > > > > > > something about it. I'll be like a whirlwind for a few days but > then > > > > > > go back to my old habits of letting it all pile up. I am trying to > > > > > > change, because with so little space, and baby no.3 later this > year, > > > > > > I have to be more organised. > > > > > > We don't get on many demos but I fully intend to be more active in > > AR > > > > > > again when the kids are older. They whinge too much on demos, > don't > > > > > > like the noise of shrill whistles and having to walk a long way, > > > > > > although they are happy about their vegan identity, and want other > > > > > > people to be vegan too. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lesley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My house is always a tip I'm not into living in a palace too > busy > > > > > > going on > > > > > > > demos in what little spare time I get,But any veganwho wont > > > > > > criticise is > > > > > > > welcome anytime.I dont expect vegans to criticise but I have > Known > > > > > > animal > > > > > > > eaters to do so .Another reason why I dont like them!In other > > words > > > > > > My place > > > > > > > is open house to vegans. Angie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 10, 2001 This is my last rant on this network. The poll tax riot effectively stopped poll tax. Demonstrating can work. > Making the police waste money is one way to get the cause noticed,A.R. > demos that bring lots of police put pressure on the government. It may make > them alter some of their laws eventually What would you do thats better > Nothing????? Angie > - > " Jane Cuming " <jane.cuming > <vegan-network > > Thursday, May 03, 2001 10:52 PM > Re: hello > > > > If the Police weren't there on Tuesday to " handle " the situation, then > they > > would have been blamed. Everyone blames everyone for everything in this > > world. They would have been wrong to be there and equally they would have > > been wrong if they had stayed away. We're all human - not perfect! > > > > I still think it was a complete waste of police resources and the money > > could have been well spent elsewhere. You talk about the amount of > wastage > > in this world, but this is an excellent example of waste - waste of time > and > > money! > > - > > " Hannah Biddle " <hannah > > <vegan-network > > > Thursday, May 03, 2001 12:34 PM > > Re: hello > > > > > > > It shows that there are (official figures) ten thousand people, plus > those > > > who support them, in this country (plus ofcourse those who demonstrated > > > throughout the world in other cities) that object to the way in which > > > freemarket capitalism currently exploits people and the environment, and > > > enslaves people in the 'developping world' through debt, military > > > governments and the mismanagement of the environment. This includes the > > > exploitation of animals through the meat industry etc. This involves a > > wide > > > variety of different organisations and groups, who have these interests > as > > a > > > common thread. There's nothing quite like being there yourself. Unless > you > > > go, you don't see for yourself the extent of the violence of the police > > (who > > > 'control' this country, or feel the collective strength of those who > wish > > to > > > fight back against oppression and build something new. > > > > > > - > > > " Jane Cuming " <jane.cuming > > > <vegan-network > > > > Wednesday, May 02, 2001 7:23 PM > > > Re: hello > > > > > > > > > > Personally I think that yesterday was a complete waste of Police > > resources > > > > and the violence was an embarrassment to our country. I felt > extremely > > > > sorry for the Police horses as well. Just my opinion. Just what did > it > > > > achieve?! > > > > > > > > Jane > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > " Hannah Biddle " <hannah > > > > <vegan-network > > > > > Wednesday, May 02, 2001 10:25 AM > > > > Re: hello > > > > > > > > > > > > > My only worry with demos is having my daughter shot by their plastic > > > > bullets > > > > > . > > > > > The police nearly killed her with CS gas and truncheons when I last > > went > > > > on > > > > > one (J18, 2 yrs ago,) so can't afford to stand in the front line > with > > > her > > > > > any more. > > > > > Hooray for all the people who went yesterday and stood up for the > > things > > > I > > > > > believe in on my behalf yesterday., > > > > > > > > > > H. > > > > > - > > > > > " Angie Wright " <angiewright > > > > > <vegan-network > > > > > > Saturday, April 21, 2001 12:29 AM > > > > > Re: hello > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i found demos too difficult when the kids were very young > > > > > > > > > > > > around 10 was ok but by 13 they then objected cos they got > bored.16+ > > > > seems > > > > > > to be a good age when they can understand all the implications and > > > make > > > > > > friends Angie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > " Lesley Dove " <100706.3632 > > > > > > <vegan-network > > > > > > > Friday, April 20, 2001 11:10 PM > > > > > > Re: hello > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We live in too tiny a flat to be " open house " unfortunately > (only > > > two > > > > > > > bedrooms, one of which is full of junk so we sleep on a sofa-bed > > in > > > > > > > the living room (new baby will be in there with us for a while, > > > until > > > > > > > s/he goes through the night regularly) and the kids have the > small > > > > > > > bedroom, but when we get round to moving somewhere bigger things > > > will > > > > > > > most likely change. > > > > > > > I wouldn't dream of criticising a person for having bigger > > > priorities > > > > > > > than housework! > > > > > > > We are in rather a mess, too cluttered and I need to sort it > out, > > I > > > > > > > need to have a really ruthless clear out, and I have finally > > started > > > > > > > in preparation for the new baby. I've never been a housework > > expert, > > > > > > > my mum wasn't into housework either so we lived in clutter, she > > was > > > > > > > active in animal welfare and rehoming of dogs and cats, although > > she > > > > > > > has never been veggie. Sometimes the clutter gets me down and I > do > > > > > > > something about it. I'll be like a whirlwind for a few days but > > then > > > > > > > go back to my old habits of letting it all pile up. I am trying > to > > > > > > > change, because with so little space, and baby no.3 later this > > year, > > > > > > > I have to be more organised. > > > > > > > We don't get on many demos but I fully intend to be more active > in > > > AR > > > > > > > again when the kids are older. They whinge too much on demos, > > don't > > > > > > > like the noise of shrill whistles and having to walk a long way, > > > > > > > although they are happy about their vegan identity, and want > other > > > > > > > people to be vegan too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lesley > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My house is always a tip I'm not into living in a palace too > > busy > > > > > > > going on > > > > > > > > demos in what little spare time I get,But any veganwho wont > > > > > > > criticise is > > > > > > > > welcome anytime.I dont expect vegans to criticise but I have > > Known > > > > > > > animal > > > > > > > > eaters to do so .Another reason why I dont like them!In other > > > words > > > > > > > My place > > > > > > > > is open house to vegans. Angie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 17, 2001 Ali wrote: I just joined the board, I found the link on the Vegan club.This looks like it's a pretty new board. I'm not sure if you guys are aware of everything you can do with , it's way better then Clubs. If you save your recipes into an HTML file you can store them in the files section. I use HTML because anyone will be able to open it, also you'll find recipes easier.Well, it's just a thought. I'm looking forward to reading and sharing recipes and veggie ideas with you guys.Alihey ali, thanks for joining up!! this list is only a couple of days old!! i guess we'll just have to figure how to work this out so it's best for everyone to use!! can anyone save the files in html? or is that just for the moderator??? *hugs* cherrie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 18, 2001 - Hi Cherrie, Anyone can upload a file unless the moderator restricts them from doing so. What you would do is save your recipe in word. then do a save as and save it as HTML then go to files ( see link to left of screen) and add the html file. You could have folders for different categories of recipies to make it easier to find things. The reason I use HTML is that anyone can read it. Not everyone can read a word document. The recipes on this board sound great. I think I'm going to dig out my crock pot and start trying some. I used to do a lot with it. I'll share some recipes as soon as I remember them. Ali -- In , " glitterophelia " <glitterophelia@e...> wrote: > > > Ali wrote: > I just joined the board, I found the link on the Vegan club. > > This looks like it's a pretty new board. I'm not sure if you guys are > aware of everything you can do with , it's way better > then Clubs. If you save your recipes into an HTML file you can > store them in the files section. I use HTML because anyone will be > able to open it, also you'll find recipes easier. > > Well, it's just a thought. I'm looking forward to reading and sharing > recipes and veggie ideas with you guys. > > Ali > > > hey ali, thanks for joining up!! this list is only a couple of days old!! i guess we'll just have to figure how to work this out so it's best for everyone to use!! can anyone save the files in html? or is that just for the moderator??? > > > *hugs* > > > cherrie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 18, 2001 Gee, all I did was go to my desktop & create a folder titled " recipes. " That's where I save them. It's really easy. Wendy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 25, 2001 I just joined. Glad to see this group. I depend on the crockpot to simplify my busy life and nourish myself and my friends. Later! Donna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 25, 2001 Welcome to the group. Donna! Glad you can join us... ~Celia P.S. Ute...in case no one answered your question about the rice cooker...I'm not sure. I believe the temperature is higher and the crockery is not the same so it might not produce the same results. Also, and more importantly, crock pots are safe to leave on when you are not home. Rice cookers are not! Donna Reagan <dreagan wrote: I just joined. Glad to see this group. I depend on the crockpot to simplify my busy life and nourish myself and my friends. Later!Donna Make a great connection at Personals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 26, 2001 welcome Donna am 25.10.2001 23:11 Uhr schrieb Celia Strother unter celia: hi Celia > P.S. Ute...in case no one answered your question about the rice cooker...I'm > not sure. I believe the temperature is higher and the crockery is not the > same so it might not produce the same results. Also, and more importantly, > crock pots are safe to leave on when you are not home. Rice cookers are not! no nobody has answered that question before - so thanks I have a telephone number by now from riveco for europe but I am not sure which country it is - maybe spain and I can't speak spanish - would be a great disaster when I phone them and we don't understand each other LOL but I wrote back to rivco whether the Europe branch has an email addy - the lady said she would get back to me but that was on the 19th of the months love ute ------ *** ------ Think different! Give Mac a chance Ute Bogun / Berlin, Germany http://homepage.mac.com/ibear/personal.html Communication is everything!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 13, 2001 A rice cooker is a very different from a slow cooker, sorry! Sandra, pleased owner of a 6 qt electric crock pot, 1.5 qt electric crock pot, 4 qt electric pressure cooker, 8 qt (or 10?) stovetop pressure cooker, and a midsize electric rice cooker, maybe 2 or 3 qts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 13, 2001 > but you can use a rice cooker for soups and such, right? No, you can't. You can make steamed vegetables in it, or anything steamed, or rice, but that's about all. > all i have is one crockpot, a steamer (for rice and veggies), and uhhh. > yeah. i think that's it. i had a rice cooker but it broke i miss that > thing. i had a microwave rice cooker and i melted that. That's ok. I'm a toy-freak. You should see my baby transportation device collection! LOL! Sandra Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 13, 2001 Sandra wrote: > A rice cooker is a very different from a slow cooker, sorry! > > Sandra, pleased owner of a 6 qt electric crock pot, 1.5 qt electric > crock pot, 4 qt electric pressure cooker, 8 qt (or 10?) stovetop > pressure cooker, and a midsize electric rice cooker, maybe 2 or 3 qts? but you can use a rice cooker for soups and such, right? all i have is one crockpot, a steamer (for rice and veggies), and uhhh. yeah. i think that's it. i had a rice cooker but it broke i miss that thing. i had a microwave rice cooker and i melted that. sigh cherrie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 8, 2002 I don't know about in the UK, but folic acid is added to a ton of foods in the U.S. -- bread, flour..... You may be getting more than you think. What is NTD? I thought a lack of folic acid was linked to spinal bifida. During the 20 week ultrasound, it can be determined if the spine has closed. My nutrition during preganany was awful and I wasn't good about taking my vitamins. I had 5 or 6 ultrasounds during my pregnancy because I wasn't gaining much weight. My son was born perfectly healthy and at 19 months, has only had a few runny noses. Good luck. I think you should have the ultrasound to put your mind at ease. Lori <<my name's Huria (that's my nick, my real name's Jakqui) and I'm almost 20 weeks pregnant with my first baby. I wanted to ask the group members, especially vegan ones, whether they took folic acid and B12 during pregnancy, especially before pregnancy and during first 12 weeks.>> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 7, 2002 , have been trying to >give up smoking for a while now (I only smoke rolling tobacco, that >aren't tested on animals, have no marketing ploys, and as far as i >know are grown ethically and I really DO want to give up but don't >want to use any of that dodgy pharmaceutical replacement stuff, >besides its probably not vegan >Julien Must have been almost a year back that there was a debate on this list concerning veganism and smoking. What made me determined to give up smoking was that someone mentioned that as vegans we should be concerned about the suffering of others. By forcing my fellow humans and animals to breathe in those nasty fumes from my tobacco smoke I was harming them as well as myself. After seeing things this way, it was easier to do. I simply gave what was left of my tobacco to a friend to hide from me. Thankfully, there were no convenience stores nearby, so I couldn't buy any even if I'd wanted to! It really isn't that bad when the temptation isn't there. I had tried several other methods of giving up before, but eventually, I let my cravings become priority and my original reasons for giving up seemed to become irrelevent or forgotten. Going [sorry to say this!] 'cold turkey' has definately worked for me. I don't even get the craving any more. Your body needs nicotine as much as it needs animal products! Keep telling yourself that! I found reading 'How to stop smoking and stay stopped' by Martin Raw, helped a lot too. If I can do it [ex-pulling my hair out if I have to go more than half an hour without my nicotine fix!] I'm sure you can! All the very best of luck! Dee _______________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 8, 2002 > Must have been almost a year back that there was a debate on this list > concerning veganism and smoking. What made me determined to give up smoking > was that someone mentioned that as vegans we should be concerned about the > suffering of others. > By forcing my fellow humans and animals to breathe in those nasty fumes from > my tobacco smoke I was harming them as well as myself. > After seeing things this way, it was easier to do. I simply gave what was > left of my tobacco to a friend to hide from me. Thankfully, there were no > convenience stores nearby, so I couldn't buy any even if I'd wanted to! It > really isn't that bad when the temptation isn't there. > I had tried several other methods of giving up before, but eventually, I let > my cravings become priority and my original reasons for giving up seemed to > become irrelevent or forgotten. > Going [sorry to say this!] 'cold turkey' has definately worked for me. I > don't even get the craving any more. Your body needs nicotine as much as it > needs animal products! Keep telling yourself that! > I found reading 'How to stop smoking and stay stopped' by Martin Raw, helped > a lot too. If I can do it [ex-pulling my hair out if I have to go more than > half an hour without my nicotine fix!] I'm sure you can! All the very best > of luck! > Dee Hey Dee I have tried to give up again today. (I've already tried a few times, but this time coincided with me joining this list). Thanx for the support, problem is there is a tobacco selling newsagent only 30 seconds walk from me! Also when i smoked I often would say things that I wished I wouldn't, especially to meat-eaters concerning ethics, and I wouldn't feel bad about it because all I really wanted was a cigarette. This worries me having given up cause I'm still probably going to say stuff that might hurt meat eaters or make them feel guilty for eating meat (I couldn't help it when was a smoker, maybe now I will have more self control) but now will spend more time regretting my actions. There seems to be a debate on whether preaching veganism is good or bad going on at the moment in this group, which is cool, and its of great interest to me cos I don't have a clue. Julien Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
