Weight Loss Acupuncture Protocol

[Guest guest]

One big reason for dumbying down CM education may be due to economics of the

schools and making things easy so that students do not fail.

 

I hate to say it but a TCM school that is attached to my chiro program has

short cut or eliminated so much of the theory I had learned while at PCOM.

Gone are the internal pathways, the jing/qi/shen concept, the luo and

divergents, etc. Basically, they only try to teach zang-fu and put everyone

into this framework. I am not sure how graduates can be expected to be any

better trained then the DC acupuncture certification (100hr) when you get

rid of important theories. I had a nice discussion about this with a

transfer student, who is now transferring to a CA program after problems

with FL and now here. It does not surprise me. There really should be a

higher bar for our education then what I have been seeing. Later

 

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

 

 

 

 

> " David Gordon " <junhengclinic

>Chinese Medicine

>Chinese Medicine

>Re: Weight Loss Acupuncture Protocol

>Tue, 17 Jan 2006 07:06:18 -0000

>

>Hi Kelvin, Z'ev, Alon, Eric and others.

>

>Every few months we have a foray into this topic, which I think is

>good because I believe it is important.

>

>I think two very good points were made in recent posts.

>

>Z'ev recently pointed out that it is difficult for *students* to

>understand and learn TCM when the nomenclature is so unclear.

>

>And Eric has (below) alluded to the craziness of dumbing down a

>subject before you teach it.

>

>I think this is critical. If everyone really was already totally

>versed in the nuances of distinction between all the concepts of

>Chinese medicine we could possibly use any mixture of systems of

>nomenclature and still understand each other in discusssion (though

>even here there would be misunderstanding in reading the written

>word).

>

>But for students it is sheer hell - and maybe an impossible task.

>

>In many fields of study it is common to dumb a subject down in order

>to write a layman's guide - and I think this is good - it can give

>the layman a taste of the subject, stir interest and enthusiasm and

>encourage further investigation.

>

>But to dumb down before you teach to serious students must be sheer

>madness.

>

>There is only one possible argument I can think of for dumbing down

>the subject before teaching it: that is if you don't believe that the

>historical conceptual framework of the subject is worth studying at

>all. If you have abandoned the theory of Chinese medicine and are

>looking for your own explanations of why it works.

>

>With respect, might this be your position Alon? It would explain your

>view on nomenclature.

>

>All the best, David

>

>

>Chinese Medicine , " Eric Brand "

><smilinglotus> wrote:

> >

> > Chinese Medicine , " mike Bowser "

> > <naturaldoc1@h...> wrote:

> > >

> > > How about regulate or encourage of flow?

> >

> > Too vague. Even Deadman's book, which is generally a really nice

>book

> > on acupuncture, has a few issues with vague terminology like this.

> > All the different technical nuances of moving qi are lumped under

> > " regulating qi. " No English distinction is obvious between the

> > Chinese terms xing, tiao, and li, which all describe different

>nuances

> > of " regulating qi. " Of course, most people don't care, but I think

> > that simplifying clinical concepts is not particularly useful to the

> > profession. It is hard to know what concepts we are missing if

> > someone has already dumbed-down the subject before teaching it to

>us.

> >

> > Eric

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kelvin,

 

Please see my off-list reply.

 

Respectfully,

 

acupuncturebeverlyhills <acupuncturebeverlyhills wrote:

Sorry to waste your time . Maybe if you can post

a list for me as to what it is that you look to this list for, I can

stay on topic for you.

 

Your humble servant,

 

Kelvin

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine , Andrea Beth

Damsky <> wrote:

>

> Kelvin,

>

> Can we kindly put an end to this weird one-upmanship? It wastes

my time and isn't what I look to this list for.

>

> Thank you,

>

>

> acupuncturebeverlyhills <acupuncturebeverlyhills> wrote:

>

>

> Why? Because so many people get caught up in picking on people

for

> there translation (or spellin')that they distract from what a

person

> is saying. (Remember, he came chastising into my post) Take Nan

> Jing ch75 in Z'ev's case. He knew not only that xie (sorry, xie3)

> translated to drain but also the history of that translation, but

> not the meaning of Ch75. So are you a translater or a Doctor?

When

> you drain a point do you use sedation techniques or do you just

put

> in a needle and hope it will " drain " , like a bath tub, all by

itself?

>

> Then Z'ez say's that acupuncture, by itself, DOESN'T work for

> weightloss except when it DOES, but all you get is me " Making fun "

> of Z'ev's love for translation. You want consistancy in

translation

> but ignore that inconsistancy.

>

> Glad to meet you Eric

>

> Kelvin

>

>

> Chinese Medicine , " Eric Brand "

> <smilinglotus> wrote:

> >

> > > On Jan 15, 2006, at 2:00 PM, acupuncturebeverlyhills wrote:

> > >

> > > > Not to pick nits Z'ev but which " only " definition do you

mean

> then?

> > > >

> > > > Kelvin

> >

> >

> > I'm a bit confused why you are making fun of Z'ev for suggesting

> that

> > our profession should have at least a slight amount of

professional

> > rigor and accurate transmission of clinical concepts. Since

when

> is

> > medicine something that should be practiced with minimal

accuracy?

> > Even if you don't personally value the accurate transmission of

> > medical knowledge, is it necessary to mock someone just because

> they

> > believe that practitioners should have a clear knowledge of the

> > subject matter?

> >

> > Terminology in Chinese medicine is not some trivial debate to

joke

> > about. The way we express and understand Chinese medical

concepts

> has

> > a direct bearing on our clinical success. Poor transmission of

> > Chinese medical concepts has resulted in wide-ranging

> misconceptions

> > that divide our community and compromise our patient's health.

> >

> > There is no debate on the importance of Chinese medical

> terminology in

> > Asia. Chinese doctors laugh out loud when they hear that people

> > translate xie as sedation. The highest people in the field in

> China,

> > Japan, Korea, and Vietnam have all repeatedly held international

> > meetings via the WHO to standardize a huge body of terms in

Chinese

> > medicine. Terminology needs to be consistent to minimize

> > misconceptions and translation errors, but it also is necessary

so

> > that databases and digital information can make more knowledge

> > available. After all, we are living in an international world

and

> we

> > are members of an enormous healthcare system that spans the

globe

> and

> > requires a consensus in many different languages.

> >

> > CM has over 30,000 terms that are defined in Chinese

dictionaries.

> > The most commonly-used 5,500 terms have been defined, translated

> into

> > English, and extensively researched by numerous Asian and Western

> > authorities. Standard English terms exist for this group of 5500

> > technical terms in the World Health Organization, the World

> Federation

> > of Societies (a group that coordinates worldwide

> > professional organizations, schools, hospitals, etc), China's

State

> > Administration of TCM, and in the Practical Dictionary of Chinese

> > Medicine (a landmark English text that has provided the reference

> > standards for several major TCM publishers in the West). None of

> > these groups advocate the word sedation for xie, BTW.

> >

> > You may get a nice ego boost by making Z'ev the butt of your

> > terminology jokes. But do you realize that Westerners who don't

> > understand basic concepts in CM are actually the butt of the

jokes

> of

> > tens of thousands of educated practitioners?

> >

> > Eric

> >

Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click,

http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145

>

>

and

adjust accordingly.

>

> Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside

the group requires prior permission from the author.

>

> Please consider the environment and only print this message if

absolutely necessary.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

We may be onto something. Most of my patients seem calm (another

meaning of sedate)after a treatment of needles but they don't look

drained. If we talk endorphins, then Z'ev maybey right about

sedation being drugs?

>>>>>

If talk modern physio i think sedation of over sympathetic activity is more

common of an affect.

alon

 

acupuncturebeverlyhills <acupuncturebeverlyhills wrote:

We may be onto something. Most of my patients seem calm (another

meaning of sedate)after a treatment of needles but they don't look

drained. If we talk endorphins, then Z'ev maybey right about

sedation being drugs?

 

Kelvin

 

Chinese Medicine , " Alon Marcus

DOM " <alonmarcus@w...> wrote:

>

> " administer a sedative drug to calm or put to sleep " .

> >>>>English is certainly not my subject but is that the only

meaning of the word sedation?

>

>

>

>

> Oakland, CA 94609

>

>

> -

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Monday, January 16, 2006 11:52 AM

> Re: Weight Loss Acupuncture Protocol

>

>

>

> On Jan 16, 2006, at 10:18 AM, acupuncturebeverlyhills wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Why? Because so many people get caught up in picking on

people for

> > there translation (or spellin')that they distract from what a

person

> > is saying. (Remember, he came chastising into my post) Take

Nan

> > Jing ch75 in Z'ev's case. He knew not only that xie (sorry,

xie3)

> > translated to drain but also the history of that translation,

but

> > not the meaning of Ch75. So are you a translater or a

Doctor? When

> > you drain a point do you use sedation techniques or do you

just put

> > in a needle and hope it will " drain " , like a bath tub, all by

itself?

>

> Kelvin, one of the problems of the e-mail medium is that

assumptions

> that are made about their authors that may be incorrect. I'll

be the

> first to admit I know nothing about you or your practice, so

there is

> no need to get 'personal' about this. If I respond to what I

> perceive to be problems in how Chinese medicine is communicated,

it

> has nothing to do with the author, who may live half-way around

the

> world and I've never met.

>

> Now something about myself. I've studied the Nan Jing for

eighteen

> years. In fact, I have been writing a book of commentary on the

Nan

> Jing for the last few years. In my opinion, difficulty 75

expounds

> on one of the most sophisticated aspects of five phase theory in

the

> classical literature, namely that one can treat channels other

than

> the afflicted one in order to resolve a pattern. And further,

I

> have been a practitioner of Chinese medicine, full time, for 24

> years. My practice includes acupuncture, and the Nan Jing is

one of

> my major texts for inspiration and ideas. Study and practice

are

> inseparable in my mind. There are many techniques that can be

used

> in acupuncture, and different schools of thought, some of which

are

> based on the Nan Jing. None of them involve sedation, which

means to

> " administer a sedative drug to calm or put to sleep " . I would

just

> like to see effective discussion on this list based on accurate

> terminology, that is all.

> >

> > Then Z'ez say's that acupuncture, by itself, DOESN'T work for

> > weightloss except when it DOES, but all you get is me " Making

fun "

> > of Z'ev's love for translation. You want consistancy in

translation

> > but ignore that inconsistancy.

>

> The point of my replies is that every case is unique, and that

> acupuncture is often effective, but is best practiced in

conjunction

> with other modalities in treatment. Necessary but often

> insufficient. In other words, acupuncture can be very helpful

for

> patients with obesity, but that each patient has to take

> responsibility for working on their own condition in order to

get

> results. In some cases, if the patient is already eating well

and

> following a healthy lifestyle, and is motivated to improve

their

> health, acupuncture in and of itself may be enough to resolve

their

> condition. Chinese medicine looks at the patient from

different

> angles, with flexibility, and chooses treatment accordingly.

>

>

> >

> > Glad to meet you Eric

> >

> > Kelvin

> >

> >

> > Chinese Medicine , " Eric

Brand "

> > <smilinglotus> wrote:

> >>

> >>> On Jan 15, 2006, at 2:00 PM, acupuncturebeverlyhills wrote:

> >>>

> >>>> Not to pick nits Z'ev but which " only " definition do you

mean

> > then?

> >>>>

> >>>> Kelvin

> >>

> >>

> >> I'm a bit confused why you are making fun of Z'ev for

suggesting

> > that

> >> our profession should have at least a slight amount of

professional

> >> rigor and accurate transmission of clinical concepts. Since

when

> > is

> >> medicine something that should be practiced with minimal

accuracy?

> >> Even if you don't personally value the accurate transmission

of

> >> medical knowledge, is it necessary to mock someone just

because

> > they

> >> believe that practitioners should have a clear knowledge of

the

> >> subject matter?

> >>

> >> Terminology in Chinese medicine is not some trivial debate to

joke

> >> about. The way we express and understand Chinese medical

concepts

> > has

> >> a direct bearing on our clinical success. Poor transmission

of

> >> Chinese medical concepts has resulted in wide-ranging

> > misconceptions

> >> that divide our community and compromise our patient's health.

> >>

> >> There is no debate on the importance of Chinese medical

> > terminology in

> >> Asia. Chinese doctors laugh out loud when they hear that

people

> >> translate xie as sedation. The highest people in the field in

> > China,

> >> Japan, Korea, and Vietnam have all repeatedly held

international

> >> meetings via the WHO to standardize a huge body of terms in

Chinese

> >> medicine. Terminology needs to be consistent to minimize

> >> misconceptions and translation errors, but it also is

necessary so

> >> that databases and digital information can make more knowledge

> >> available. After all, we are living in an international

world and

> > we

> >> are members of an enormous healthcare system that spans the

globe

> > and

> >> requires a consensus in many different languages.

> >>

> >> CM has over 30,000 terms that are defined in Chinese

dictionaries.

> >> The most commonly-used 5,500 terms have been defined,

translated

> > into

> >> English, and extensively researched by numerous Asian and

Western

> >> authorities. Standard English terms exist for this group of

5500

> >> technical terms in the World Health Organization, the World

> > Federation

> >> of Societies (a group that coordinates

worldwide

> >> professional organizations, schools, hospitals, etc), China's

State

> >> Administration of TCM, and in the Practical Dictionary of

Chinese

> >> Medicine (a landmark English text that has provided the

reference

> >> standards for several major TCM publishers in the West).

None of

> >> these groups advocate the word sedation for xie, BTW.

> >>

> >> You may get a nice ego boost by making Z'ev the butt of your

> >> terminology jokes. But do you realize that Westerners who

don't

> >> understand basic concepts in CM are actually the butt of the

jokes

> > of

> >> tens of thousands of educated practitioners?

> >>

> >> Eric

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://

> > toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145

> >

> > http://

> > and

adjust

> > accordingly.

> >

> > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication

outside

> > the group requires prior permission from the author.

> >

> > Please consider the environment and only print this message

if

> > absolutely necessary.

> >

[Guest guest]

Nigel Wiseman's web site has downloadable copies of some of his work in

language.

http://memo.cgu.edu.tw/wiseman/WebPublished.htm

 

SE

 

petetheisen wrote:

 

>Eric Brand wrote:

><snip>

>

>

>>CM has over 30,000 terms that are defined in Chinese dictionaries.

>>The most commonly-used 5,500 terms have been defined, translated into

>>English, and extensively researched by numerous Asian and Western

>>authorities. Standard English terms exist for this group of 5500

>>technical terms in the World Health Organization, the World Federation

>>of Societies (a group that coordinates worldwide

>>professional organizations, schools, hospitals, etc), China's State

>>Administration of TCM, and in the Practical Dictionary of Chinese

>>Medicine (a landmark English text that has provided the reference

>>standards for several major TCM publishers in the West).

>>

>>

>

>Hi Eric!

>

>Is this list of 5,500 terms on the web?

>

>Regards,

>

>Pete

>

>

>

>

>

>Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click,

http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145

>

>

and adjust

accordingly.

>

>

>

>Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely

necessary.

>

[Guest guest]

Steve Edwards wrote:

> Nigel Wiseman's web site has downloadable copies of some of his work in

> language.

> http://memo.cgu.edu.tw/wiseman/WebPublished.htm

>

> SE

 

Hi Steve!

 

Good link, thanks.

 

Regards,

 

Pete

[Guest guest]

ch75 con't

 

So that maybe where the reason for st38 is empirical for shoulder pain

and stiffness. With three earths, center (earth) of lower leg, st

(earth) channel, and muscle(earth)depth it controls water.

 

For more fun you can look at the pulse positions. Take the left

distal position (ht) and think of it as a segment toward the wrist is

fire, towards the liver position is water, direction of thumb is

metal, towards the ulnar wood, and the center is earth. Now look for

the " fuller " (is that a word?) element. Let say that the distal (fire

is replete. You can drain earth (Ht7) and supplement wood (Ht9) to

drain fire. You should also check the pulse at Ht7 to see it's also

direction is replete or not to see if you're dealing with a channel or

organ pathology. If it's in the organ needle the earth and metal of

the chest between the kidney channels.

 

Kelvin

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine ,

" acupuncturebeverlyhills " <acupuncturebeverlyhills> wrote:

>

>

>

> Anyway, the Nang Jing ch75. Wood (east) is replete metal (west) is

> vacuous. Normally one uses metal to level wood but in this case it

> is vacuous so you drain the son of wood (east) which is fire (south)

> and supplement water (north)to obtain metal's leveling.

> Now forget about channels and think body segments. If you look on

> page 47 of " Five Elements and Ten Stems " by Kiiko Matsumoto and

> Steven Birch you will see earth at the center, metal at the west,

> liver at the east, fire at the south and water at the north. The

> abdomen is one segment of the body and it can also be divided into

> other segments. Every part of the body can be so divided. Take the

> shoulder for example, if you have shoulder pain at LI15 (the north

> of the arm) you needle to the east(left) and west(right). Now if

> you want to add a controller to this you'll add earth. Such as

> st38, the middle(earth)of the foot yang ming on the lower leg to

> control the water (north) of hand yang ming.

>

> If you put that in your book, Z'ev, you'll owe me five bucks.

>

> Kelvin

>

>

> Chinese Medicine , " Z'ev

> Rosenberg " <zrosenbe@s...> wrote:

> >

> >

> > On Jan 16, 2006, at 10:18 AM, acupuncturebeverlyhills wrote:

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > Why? Because so many people get caught up in picking on people

> for

> > > there translation (or spellin')that they distract from what a

> person

> > > is saying. (Remember, he came chastising into my post) Take Nan

> > > Jing ch75 in Z'ev's case. He knew not only that xie (sorry,

> xie3)

> > > translated to drain but also the history of that translation, but

> > > not the meaning of Ch75. So are you a translater or a Doctor?

> When

> > > you drain a point do you use sedation techniques or do you just

> put

> > > in a needle and hope it will " drain " , like a bath tub, all by

> itself?

> >

> > Kelvin, one of the problems of the e-mail medium is that

> assumptions

> > that are made about their authors that may be incorrect. I'll be

> the

> > first to admit I know nothing about you or your practice, so there

> is

> > no need to get 'personal' about this. If I respond to what I

> > perceive to be problems in how Chinese medicine is communicated,

> it

> > has nothing to do with the author, who may live half-way around

> the

> > world and I've never met.

> >

> > Now something about myself. I've studied the Nan Jing for

> eighteen

> > years. In fact, I have been writing a book of commentary on the

> Nan

> > Jing for the last few years. In my opinion, difficulty 75

> expounds

> > on one of the most sophisticated aspects of five phase theory in

> the

> > classical literature, namely that one can treat channels other

> than

> > the afflicted one in order to resolve a pattern. And further, I

> > have been a practitioner of Chinese medicine, full time, for 24

> > years. My practice includes acupuncture, and the Nan Jing is one

> of

> > my major texts for inspiration and ideas. Study and practice are

> > inseparable in my mind. There are many techniques that can be

> used

> > in acupuncture, and different schools of thought, some of which

> are

> > based on the Nan Jing. None of them involve sedation, which means

> to

> > " administer a sedative drug to calm or put to sleep " . I would

> just

> > like to see effective discussion on this list based on accurate

> > terminology, that is all.

> > >

> > > Then Z'ez say's that acupuncture, by itself, DOESN'T work for

> > > weightloss except when it DOES, but all you get is me " Making

> fun "

> > > of Z'ev's love for translation. You want consistancy in

> translation

> > > but ignore that inconsistancy.

> >

> > The point of my replies is that every case is unique, and that

> > acupuncture is often effective, but is best practiced in

> conjunction

> > with other modalities in treatment. Necessary but often

> > insufficient. In other words, acupuncture can be very helpful

> for

> > patients with obesity, but that each patient has to take

> > responsibility for working on their own condition in order to get

> > results. In some cases, if the patient is already eating well

> and

> > following a healthy lifestyle, and is motivated to improve their

> > health, acupuncture in and of itself may be enough to resolve

> their

> > condition. Chinese medicine looks at the patient from different

> > angles, with flexibility, and chooses treatment accordingly.

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Glad to meet you Eric

> > >

> > > Kelvin

> > >

> > >

> > > Chinese Medicine , " Eric Brand "

> > > <smilinglotus> wrote:

> > >>

> > >>> On Jan 15, 2006, at 2:00 PM, acupuncturebeverlyhills wrote:

> > >>>

> > >>>> Not to pick nits Z'ev but which " only " definition do you mean

> > > then?

> > >>>>

> > >>>> Kelvin

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> I'm a bit confused why you are making fun of Z'ev for suggesting

> > > that

> > >> our profession should have at least a slight amount of

> professional

> > >> rigor and accurate transmission of clinical concepts. Since

> when

> > > is

> > >> medicine something that should be practiced with minimal

> accuracy?

> > >> Even if you don't personally value the accurate transmission of

> > >> medical knowledge, is it necessary to mock someone just because

> > > they

> > >> believe that practitioners should have a clear knowledge of the

> > >> subject matter?

> > >>

> > >> Terminology in Chinese medicine is not some trivial debate to

> joke

> > >> about. The way we express and understand Chinese medical

> concepts

> > > has

> > >> a direct bearing on our clinical success. Poor transmission of

> > >> Chinese medical concepts has resulted in wide-ranging

> > > misconceptions

> > >> that divide our community and compromise our patient's health.

> > >>

> > >> There is no debate on the importance of Chinese medical

> > > terminology in

> > >> Asia. Chinese doctors laugh out loud when they hear that people

> > >> translate xie as sedation. The highest people in the field in

> > > China,

> > >> Japan, Korea, and Vietnam have all repeatedly held international

> > >> meetings via the WHO to standardize a huge body of terms in

> Chinese

> > >> medicine. Terminology needs to be consistent to minimize

> > >> misconceptions and translation errors, but it also is necessary

> so

> > >> that databases and digital information can make more knowledge

> > >> available. After all, we are living in an international world

> and

> > > we

> > >> are members of an enormous healthcare system that spans the

> globe

> > > and

> > >> requires a consensus in many different languages.

> > >>

> > >> CM has over 30,000 terms that are defined in Chinese

> dictionaries.

> > >> The most commonly-used 5,500 terms have been defined, translated

> > > into

> > >> English, and extensively researched by numerous Asian and

> Western

> > >> authorities. Standard English terms exist for this group of 5500

> > >> technical terms in the World Health Organization, the World

> > > Federation

> > >> of Societies (a group that coordinates

> worldwide

> > >> professional organizations, schools, hospitals, etc), China's

> State

> > >> Administration of TCM, and in the Practical Dictionary of

> Chinese

> > >> Medicine (a landmark English text that has provided the

> reference

> > >> standards for several major TCM publishers in the West). None

> of

> > >> these groups advocate the word sedation for xie, BTW.

> > >>

> > >> You may get a nice ego boost by making Z'ev the butt of your

> > >> terminology jokes. But do you realize that Westerners who don't

> > >> understand basic concepts in CM are actually the butt of the

> jokes

> > > of

> > >> tens of thousands of educated practitioners?

> > >>

> > >> Eric

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click, http://

> > > toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145

> > >

> > > http://

> > > and

> adjust

> > > accordingly.

> > >

> > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication

> outside

> > > the group requires prior permission from the author.

> > >

> > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if

> > > absolutely necessary.

> > >

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , Joyce Schwartz

<joyces@n...> wrote:

>

> I have been following this subject, about the correct

definition/meaning of terms that are used very closely since I am a

4th year student and have been wondering about this since the

beginning, feeling that I don't really understand what even some basic

terms really mean - to tonify for example. How do the points tonify?

Does it always mean the same thing in different contexts, etc. So, I

am grateful for this discussion and thank you all.

 

" Tonify " is one of the classic examples of simplified terminology. In

Chinese, there are seven different words that express the concept of

tonification. Each of these seven words has a different nuance and

usage. Most English books simplify this concept by omitting the

differences so that the authors gain wider market acceptance by making

their books easier to read (albeit less authentic to the concepts of

CM).

 

Despite the fact that Westerners are not inherently less intelligent

or capable of understanding the complexities of Chinese medical

theory, most of the first-generation books from China were done by

people who didn't really know how to translate into English well and

many Chinese authors at the time believed that CM had to be simplified

and biomedicalized to be acceptable to the Western palate. Writers

like Macioccia followed suit and kept CM terminology simplified if not

biomedicalized. Wiseman went the opposite route, preserving all of

the technical nuances of Chinese medical expression in English, but

his work was initially criticized for being too difficult (because it

was not dumbed down for the Western audience).

 

Thus, in the West today, there are two major terminology " camps. "

Those who insist that CM has a highly developed technical terminology

that must be preserved in English, and those who insist that Chinese

medicine lacks a technical terminology. Of course, this disparity

only exists in the West, since it is widely accepted in Asia that

Chinese medicine has an advanced technical terminology.

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

Hello there,

I would like to add my 1 cent's worth.

At the time many of the authors and our teacher's

teachers were studying... there wasn't much OM

material available, if at all... and before that it

was devils and evils; and here in the South until the

80's... arrest.

Now that more books and better translations and more

linguists and historians are poring over and

translating the hundreds (thousands) of books and

historical records, now that the Orient is open and

available... you know there are 7 different words for

tonification. Good. Start to use them.

That the Chinese did not know how to translate back

then, is true, neither did we. If you study the

history of OM in the West, and the Orient, you will

have a greater appreciation of the enormity of the

migration and the language and cultural bridge that is

still incomplete for OM here, including the acceptance

of a willing public.

It is unfortunate, but it is difficult to understand

different concepts when you don't have a foundation in

them. Our schools will change only very slowly, as

the old guard fade away, kinda like the Chinese

Communists, and as new translations and books are

available.

Students with money should pack their bags and go to

the source. Don't patronize what you say is inferior,

pack your bags and go to China or Taiwan or Korea or

Japan. Come back and teach!

Hello Gabriel who is now in Taiwan. What do you

think?

David Tarlo

 

 

 

--- Eric Brand <smilinglotus wrote:

 

> Chinese Medicine ,

> Joyce Schwartz

> <joyces@n...> wrote:

> >

> > I have been following this subject, about the

> correct

> definition/meaning of terms that are used very

> closely since I am a

> 4th year student and have been wondering about this

> since the

> beginning, feeling that I don't really understand

> what even some basic

> terms really mean - to tonify for example. How do

> the points tonify?

> Does it always mean the same thing in different

> contexts, etc. So, I

> am grateful for this discussion and thank you all.

>

> " Tonify " is one of the classic examples of

> simplified terminology. In

> Chinese, there are seven different words that

> express the concept of

> tonification. Each of these seven words has a

> different nuance and

> usage. Most English books simplify this concept by

> omitting the

> differences so that the authors gain wider market

> acceptance by making

> their books easier to read (albeit less authentic to

> the concepts of

> CM).

>

> Despite the fact that Westerners are not inherently

> less intelligent

> or capable of understanding the complexities of

> Chinese medical

> theory, most of the first-generation books from

> China were done by

> people who didn't really know how to translate into

> English well and

> many Chinese authors at the time believed that CM

> had to be simplified

> and biomedicalized to be acceptable to the Western

> palate. Writers

> like Macioccia followed suit and kept CM terminology

> simplified if not

> biomedicalized. Wiseman went the opposite route,

> preserving all of

> the technical nuances of Chinese medical expression

> in English, but

> his work was initially criticized for being too

> difficult (because it

> was not dumbed down for the Western audience).

>

> Thus, in the West today, there are two major

> terminology " camps. "

> Those who insist that CM has a highly developed

> technical terminology

> that must be preserved in English, and those who

> insist that Chinese

> medicine lacks a technical terminology. Of course,

> this disparity

> only exists in the West, since it is widely accepted

> in Asia that

> Chinese medicine has an advanced technical

> terminology.

>

> Eric

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , David Tarlo

<d1tarlo> wrote:

 

> Students with money should pack their bags and go to

> the source. Don't patronize what you say is inferior,

> pack your bags and go to China or Taiwan or Korea or

> Japan. Come back and teach!

> Hello Gabriel who is now in Taiwan. What do you

 

Great comments David! I would encourage all students to seek the

source of the medicine by going to Asia to study more. A good CA

school can give you a solid foundation, but Chinese medicine is a huge

field with an endless room for growth (both personally and

professionally). The best way to expand your potential is to study in

Asia, go before school, go in the middle of school, go when you

graduate, go whenever you can and set your sights high.

 

As for Gabriel, I don't presume to speak for him, but I do know him

from Taiwan and I can objectively say that he is one guy who is really

on the right track. His desire to learn and advance his skills is

truly commendable, and he has a natural knack for making good

contacts. Last I heard, Gabe was studying in the CM clinic of China

Medical University and was working with Wiseman on the critical need

to develop superior standards in the transmission of Chinese medicine

into Spanish. Hats off to Gabe for his hard work for the community!

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

Hi David

Thanks for your informative post, you as well as Eric

have explained in much detail the circumstances of how

our education of oriental medicine evolved and with it

the propagated errors that continue to misrepresent

many of the ideas and concepts of Chinese medicine,

which in large have to do with terms and translations.

Like Eric said in a recent post, we as “western

practitioners are the joke of many doctors in Asia”

because our inability to understand basic concepts.

I would highly recommend for any student of Chinese

medicine to pursue continued studies in an Asian

country not only for the gain linguistically but for

the experience that you will acquire, for instance,

back in my school clinic in Texas, I would see maybe 8

to 10 patients a week if I was doing two clinic days a

week, here I see 120 patients by noon.

And there are many departments within a hospital were

they will treat very specific diseases and conditions

and within a 3 month period you can really get

acquainted with its patterns and various symptom

combinations that may present, not only that but many

doctors or students if there is time will be more than

happy to explain in more detail the reasoning behind

the treatment and is really rewarding when you can put

it all together theoretically and fill in the missing

gaps.

But if you don’t go to an Asian country, you can still

further your studies and fill in the educational gaps

by learning from good teachers, and responsibly

translated materials and of course learning Chinese.

What has opened many doors for me here in Taiwan has

been the education I received, not in school, but from

work shops and distance learning from good teachers

like flaws, Damone, Mitchell and Ergil and others and

of course Wiseman’s PD, all these individuals have

illuminated the way in our understanding of complex

theoretical concepts that are not thought in most

schools of Chinese medicine in the states, they also

have made us aware that proper transmission of

knowledge requires accurate linguistic terminology.

When you as a foreigner can converse with a Chinese

physician and demonstrate that you have a basic

understanding of more advanced theories and concepts,

they will teach you more and open more doors for you

to further your education and at the same time earn

their respect as a competent practitioner. I owe a

great deal of gratitude to these individuals for

putting out valuable material and bridging the gap

that our educational institutions have failed to

bridge.

Gabriel

 

 

--- David Tarlo <d1tarlo wrote:

 

> Hello there,

> I would like to add my 1 cent's worth.

> At the time many of the authors and our teacher's

> teachers were studying... there wasn't much OM

> material available, if at all... and before that it

> was devils and evils; and here in the South until

> the

> 80's... arrest.

> Now that more books and better translations and more

> linguists and historians are poring over and

> translating the hundreds (thousands) of books and

> historical records, now that the Orient is open and

> available... you know there are 7 different words

> for

> tonification. Good. Start to use them.

> That the Chinese did not know how to translate back

> then, is true, neither did we. If you study the

> history of OM in the West, and the Orient, you will

> have a greater appreciation of the enormity of the

> migration and the language and cultural bridge that

> is

> still incomplete for OM here, including the

> acceptance

> of a willing public.

> It is unfortunate, but it is difficult to understand

> different concepts when you don't have a foundation

> in

> them. Our schools will change only very slowly, as

> the old guard fade away, kinda like the Chinese

> Communists, and as new translations and books are

> available.

> Students with money should pack their bags and go to

> the source. Don't patronize what you say is

> inferior,

> pack your bags and go to China or Taiwan or Korea or

> Japan. Come back and teach!

> Hello Gabriel who is now in Taiwan. What do you

> think?

> David Tarlo

>

>

>

> --- Eric Brand <smilinglotus wrote:

>

> > --- In

> Chinese Medicine ,

> > Joyce Schwartz

> > <joyces@n...> wrote:

> > >

> > > I have been following this subject, about the

> > correct

> > definition/meaning of terms that are used very

> > closely since I am a

> > 4th year student and have been wondering about

> this

> > since the

> > beginning, feeling that I don't really understand

> > what even some basic

> > terms really mean - to tonify for example. How do

> > the points tonify?

> > Does it always mean the same thing in different

> > contexts, etc. So, I

> > am grateful for this discussion and thank you all.

> >

> > " Tonify " is one of the classic examples of

> > simplified terminology. In

> > Chinese, there are seven different words that

> > express the concept of

> > tonification. Each of these seven words has a

> > different nuance and

> > usage. Most English books simplify this concept

> by

> > omitting the

> > differences so that the authors gain wider market

> > acceptance by making

> > their books easier to read (albeit less authentic

> to

> > the concepts of

> > CM).

> >

> > Despite the fact that Westerners are not

> inherently

> > less intelligent

> > or capable of understanding the complexities of

> > Chinese medical

> > theory, most of the first-generation books from

> > China were done by

> > people who didn't really know how to translate

> into

> > English well and

> > many Chinese authors at the time believed that CM

> > had to be simplified

> > and biomedicalized to be acceptable to the Western

> > palate. Writers

> > like Macioccia followed suit and kept CM

> terminology

> > simplified if not

> > biomedicalized. Wiseman went the opposite route,

> > preserving all of

> > the technical nuances of Chinese medical

> expression

> > in English, but

> > his work was initially criticized for being too

> > difficult (because it

> > was not dumbed down for the Western audience).

> >

> > Thus, in the West today, there are two major

> > terminology " camps. "

> > Those who insist that CM has a highly developed

> > technical terminology

> > that must be preserved in English, and those who

> > insist that Chinese

> > medicine lacks a technical terminology. Of

> course,

> > this disparity

> > only exists in the West, since it is widely

> accepted

> > in Asia that

> > Chinese medicine has an advanced technical

> > terminology.

> >

> > Eric

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

From Tran Viet Dzung:

This is someone's rough notes I cannot copy the graphics and the

footnotes which explain a lot into this text format. If anyone wants

the full thing e mail me...

 

Etiologies of Obesity:

 

Energetic Medicine Western Medicine

1. Poor Diet & #61664; Deficient Spleen Yang 1. Digestive Problems

2. Stress: Liver Fire 2. Stress &

Psychological Factors

3. Deficient Innate Kidney Yang 3. Genetic and

Neurologic

 

Must treat correctly and preventatively. Do not wait to treat, treat

before the patient becomes obese.

 

I. Poor Diet: Deficient Spleen Yang

1. overindulgence of food

2. eating too fast

3. eating too cold

 

Instead of the Spleen humidity going towards the Lungs it goes to

phlegm. Phlegm is the materialization of the stagnant humidity due

to hypofunctioning of the Spleen as a result of poor diet.

 

Humidity & #61664; Phlegm Cold & #61664; Phlegm Heat. The cold becomes maximum

and

then polarizes into heat. Phlegm Heat & #61664; Phlegm Fire. Phlegm Fire

moves and goes anywhere it wants, e.g. phlegm fire causes cough,

asthma. Another example is the bockage of energy in the shoulder

because phlegm fire has affected all channels that go through the

shoulder and this can lead to epilepsy, connective tissue,

dermatitis, hemaplagia, or obesity and cellulites. Treatment: Must

treat the Spleen.

 

II. Stress: Liver Fire

 

1. Psychological Factors

2. Permanent Stress of our society

 

Stress, fear of other psychological factors & #61664;

& #61674; Kidney & #61664; & #61673;Liver Yang & #61664; & #61674; Spleen Yang

& #61664; Obesity

Liver fire may be caused y psychological factors or by permanent

stress of our society. Stress inhibits Kidney Yin which leads to an

unfurling of Kidney Yang, which leads to Liver Fire, which acts on

the Spleen. Fear, which causes epinephrine surges, decreases Kidney

Yin and increases Kidney Yang. In addition, epinephrine causes and a

decrease glc uptake of muscles leading to insulin resistance. This

insulin resistance is the result of the Spleen/Pancreas not

functioning properly.

 

III. Deficient Innate Kidney Yang

 

& #61674; Kidney Yang & #61664; & #61674; Spleen Yang

 

 

 

Treatment Protocols for the Three Types of Obesity

 

I. Poor Diet: Deficient Spleen Yang

1. Spleen/Stomach System Reflex

-1- Shu-Mu Bl-20, Bl-21, Li-13, CV-12,

add source Sp-3, St-42

-2- Middle Jiao CV-12 (fundus), St-25, CV-10

(pylorus),

CV-13 (cardia), Bl-22

-3- Mobilize MF Moxa Bl-13, Bl-14, Bl-15, Bl-

42, Bl-43, Bl-44

add GV-14

-4- YangMing LI-4, LI-4, St-36, Sp-6

 

2. Wei Reflex

-1- Formation CV-5, CV-7, Bl-22

-2- Circulation inferior: St-30, CV-12, Li-13, Li-14

superior: St-5, St-9, CV-22,

CV-23, GV-14

-3- Ying Transit abdomen: Ki-16, St-25

back-shu: Moxa T10 & #61664; S1

-4-Root/Summit Sp: Sp-6, CV-23

St: St-45, St-9

 

3. Thinking Reflex `Move the thinking'

-1- Move Thinking Sp-1 move thinking

GB-40 make decision

Ki-3 take action

-2- Treat Yi T4/T5

Bl-20, Bl-49

-3- Treat Mental preoccupation: Sp-1

anger: Li-4

sadness: Lu-10

 

4. Treat the Phlegm St-40 , St-37, Sp-3

 

II. Stress: Liver Fire

 

1. Calm Fire Li-3, GB-34

2. Treat Hun C7/T1, Bl-18, Bl-47

3. Treat Anger Li-4, and sparingly Li-8

4. Tonify Ki Yin

-1- Shu-Mu CV-4, Bl-23, Bl-52, Ki-3, Ki-7

-2- Zhi T7/T8

-3- LJ CV-5, CV-7; moxa Bl-22

-4- Calm Ki-3

 

III. Deficient Innate Kidney Yang

 

1. Tonify Ki Yang CV-4, GV-4

2. Circulate Heat in Cells

-1- CV (1) Sp/St CV-12, CV-13,

CV-10

(2) Wei LJ CV-5, CV-7

-2- Chong Mai Ki-11, Ki-12, Sp-4, XB-6

3. Nasal Curious Points for St & Sp and sometimes Li/Ki

 

 

IV. Local Treatment for Obesity

 

1. Internal Path of the Spleen: Needle with long needle

from a point 3 cun lateral to CV-3 toward Sp-16, angled low to

high and medial to lateral into the dermis layer. Length of

needle depends on the severity of the obesity.

Electrostimulate dispersion 20-30 minutes.

 

2. Needle Thigh: GB-30 & #61664; GB-31 in the dermis layer. Thread

and electrostimulate dispersion.

(He means moxa on all shu points in this)

[Guest guest]

Jason,

I would love a copy of the asteemed Dr. Tran's notes.

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

 

 

 

 

> " jasonwcom " <jasonwcom

>Chinese Medicine

>Chinese Medicine

>Re: Weight Loss Acupuncture Protocol

>Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:17:26 -0000

>

>From Tran Viet Dzung:

>This is someone's rough notes I cannot copy the graphics and the

>footnotes which explain a lot into this text format. If anyone wants

>the full thing e mail me...

>

>Etiologies of Obesity:

>

>Energetic Medicine Western Medicine

>1. Poor Diet„³ Deficient Spleen Yang 1. Digestive Problems

>2. Stress: Liver Fire 2. Stress &

>Psychological Factors

>3. Deficient Innate Kidney Yang 3. Genetic and

>Neurologic

>

>Must treat correctly and preventatively. Do not wait to treat, treat

>before the patient becomes obese.

>

>I. Poor Diet: Deficient Spleen Yang

> 1. overindulgence of food

> 2. eating too fast

> 3. eating too cold

>

>Instead of the Spleen humidity going towards the Lungs it goes to

>phlegm. Phlegm is the materialization of the stagnant humidity due

>to hypofunctioning of the Spleen as a result of poor diet.

>

>Humidity „³ Phlegm Cold „³ Phlegm Heat. The cold becomes maximum and

>then polarizes into heat. Phlegm Heat „³ Phlegm Fire. Phlegm Fire

>moves and goes anywhere it wants, e.g. phlegm fire causes cough,

>asthma. Another example is the bockage of energy in the shoulder

>because phlegm fire has affected all channels that go through the

>shoulder and this can lead to epilepsy, connective tissue,

>dermatitis, hemaplagia, or obesity and cellulites. Treatment: Must

>treat the Spleen.

>

>II. Stress: Liver Fire

>

> 1. Psychological Factors

> 2. Permanent Stress of our society

>

>Stress, fear of other psychological factors„³

> „½ Kidney „³ „¼Liver Yang „³ „½ Spleen Yang „³ Obesity

>Liver fire may be caused y psychological factors or by permanent

>stress of our society. Stress inhibits Kidney Yin which leads to an

>unfurling of Kidney Yang, which leads to Liver Fire, which acts on

>the Spleen. Fear, which causes epinephrine surges, decreases Kidney

>Yin and increases Kidney Yang. In addition, epinephrine causes and a

>decrease glc uptake of muscles leading to insulin resistance. This

>insulin resistance is the result of the Spleen/Pancreas not

>functioning properly.

>

>III. Deficient Innate Kidney Yang

>

> „½ Kidney Yang „³ „½ Spleen Yang

>

>

>

>Treatment Protocols for the Three Types of Obesity

>

>I. Poor Diet: Deficient Spleen Yang

> 1. Spleen/Stomach System Reflex

> -1- Shu-Mu Bl-20, Bl-21, Li-13, CV-12,

> add source Sp-3, St-42

> -2- Middle Jiao CV-12 (fundus), St-25, CV-10

>(pylorus),

> CV-13 (cardia), Bl-22

> -3- Mobilize MF Moxa Bl-13, Bl-14, Bl-15, Bl-

>42, Bl-43, Bl-44

> add GV-14

> -4- YangMing LI-4, LI-4, St-36, Sp-6

>

> 2. Wei Reflex

> -1- Formation CV-5, CV-7, Bl-22

> -2- Circulation inferior: St-30, CV-12, Li-13, Li-14

> superior: St-5, St-9, CV-22,

>CV-23, GV-14

> -3- Ying Transit abdomen: Ki-16, St-25

> back-shu: Moxa T10„³ S1

> -4-Root/Summit Sp: Sp-6, CV-23

> St: St-45, St-9

>

> 3. Thinking Reflex `Move the thinking'

> -1- Move Thinking Sp-1 move thinking

> GB-40 make decision

> Ki-3 take action

> -2- Treat Yi T4/T5

> Bl-20, Bl-49

> -3- Treat Mental preoccupation: Sp-1

> anger: Li-4

> sadness: Lu-10

>

> 4. Treat the Phlegm St-40 , St-37, Sp-3

>

>II. Stress: Liver Fire

>

> 1. Calm Fire Li-3, GB-34

> 2. Treat Hun C7/T1, Bl-18, Bl-47

> 3. Treat Anger Li-4, and sparingly Li-8

> 4. Tonify Ki Yin

> -1- Shu-Mu CV-4, Bl-23, Bl-52, Ki-3, Ki-7

> -2- Zhi T7/T8

> -3- LJ CV-5, CV-7; moxa Bl-22

> -4- Calm Ki-3

>

>III. Deficient Innate Kidney Yang

>

> 1. Tonify Ki Yang CV-4, GV-4

> 2. Circulate Heat in Cells

> -1- CV (1) Sp/St CV-12, CV-13,

>CV-10

> (2) Wei LJ CV-5, CV-7

> -2- Chong Mai Ki-11, Ki-12, Sp-4, XB-6

> 3. Nasal Curious Points for St & Sp and sometimes Li/Ki

>

>

>IV. Local Treatment for Obesity

>

> 1. Internal Path of the Spleen: Needle with long needle

>from a point 3 cun lateral to CV-3 toward Sp-16, angled low to

>high and medial to lateral into the dermis layer. Length of

>needle depends on the severity of the obesity.

> Electrostimulate dispersion 20-30 minutes.

>

> 2. Needle Thigh: GB-30 „³ GB-31 in the dermis layer. Thread

>and electrostimulate dispersion.

>(He means moxa on all shu points in this)

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jason,

 

I too would deeply appreciate a copy of the *esteemed* Dr. Tran's

notes.

 

Thank you very very much.

 

Rachel

 

Chinese Medicine , " mike Bowser "

<naturaldoc1@h...> wrote:

>

> Jason,

> I would love a copy of the asteemed Dr. Tran's notes.

>

> Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

>

>

>

>

>

> > " jasonwcom " <jasonwcom>

> >Chinese Medicine

> >Chinese Medicine

> >Re: Weight Loss Acupuncture Protocol

> >Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:17:26 -0000

> >

> >From Tran Viet Dzung:

> >This is someone's rough notes I cannot copy the graphics and the

> >footnotes which explain a lot into this text format. If anyone

wants

> >the full thing e mail me...

> >

> >Etiologies of Obesity:

> >

> >Energetic Medicine Western Medicine

> >1. Poor Diet„³ Deficient Spleen Yang 1. Digestive

Problems

> >2. Stress: Liver Fire 2. Stress &

> >Psychological Factors

> >3. Deficient Innate Kidney Yang 3. Genetic and

> >Neurologic

> >

> >Must treat correctly and preventatively. Do not wait to treat,

treat

> >before the patient becomes obese.

> >

> >I. Poor Diet: Deficient Spleen Yang

> > 1. overindulgence of food

> > 2. eating too fast

> > 3. eating too cold

> >

> >Instead of the Spleen humidity going towards the Lungs it goes to

> >phlegm. Phlegm is the materialization of the stagnant humidity

due

> >to hypofunctioning of the Spleen as a result of poor diet.

> >

> >Humidity „³ Phlegm Cold „³ Phlegm Heat. The cold becomes

maximum and

> >then polarizes into heat. Phlegm Heat „³ Phlegm Fire. Phlegm

Fire

> >moves and goes anywhere it wants, e.g. phlegm fire causes cough,

> >asthma. Another example is the bockage of energy in the shoulder

> >because phlegm fire has affected all channels that go through the

> >shoulder and this can lead to epilepsy, connective tissue,

> >dermatitis, hemaplagia, or obesity and cellulites. Treatment:

Must

> >treat the Spleen.

> >

> >II. Stress: Liver Fire

> >

> > 1. Psychological Factors

> > 2. Permanent Stress of our society

> >

> >Stress, fear of other psychological factors„³

> > „½ Kidney „³ „¼Liver Yang „³ „½ Spleen Yang „³

Obesity

> >Liver fire may be caused y psychological factors or by permanent

> >stress of our society. Stress inhibits Kidney Yin which leads to

an

> >unfurling of Kidney Yang, which leads to Liver Fire, which acts on

> >the Spleen. Fear, which causes epinephrine surges, decreases

Kidney

> >Yin and increases Kidney Yang. In addition, epinephrine causes

and a

> >decrease glc uptake of muscles leading to insulin resistance.

This

> >insulin resistance is the result of the Spleen/Pancreas not

> >functioning properly.

> >

> >III. Deficient Innate Kidney Yang

> >

> > „½ Kidney Yang „³ „½ Spleen Yang

> >

> >

> >

> >Treatment Protocols for the Three Types of Obesity

> >

> >I. Poor Diet: Deficient Spleen Yang

> > 1. Spleen/Stomach System Reflex

> > -1- Shu-Mu Bl-20, Bl-21, Li-13, CV-12,

> > add source Sp-3, St-42

> > -2- Middle Jiao CV-12 (fundus), St-25, CV-10

> >(pylorus),

> > CV-13 (cardia), Bl-22

> > -3- Mobilize MF Moxa Bl-13, Bl-14, Bl-15, Bl-

> >42, Bl-43, Bl-44

> > add GV-14

> > -4- YangMing LI-4, LI-4, St-36, Sp-6

> >

> > 2. Wei Reflex

> > -1- Formation CV-5, CV-7, Bl-22

> > -2- Circulation inferior: St-30, CV-12, Li-13, Li-14

> > superior: St-5, St-9, CV-22,

> >CV-23, GV-14

> > -3- Ying Transit abdomen: Ki-16, St-25

> > back-shu: Moxa T10„³ S1

> > -4-Root/Summit Sp: Sp-6, CV-23

> > St: St-45, St-9

> >

> > 3. Thinking Reflex `Move the thinking'

> > -1- Move Thinking Sp-1 move thinking

> > GB-40 make decision

> > Ki-3 take action

> > -2- Treat Yi T4/T5

> > Bl-20, Bl-49

> > -3- Treat Mental preoccupation: Sp-1

> > anger: Li-4

> > sadness: Lu-10

> >

> > 4. Treat the Phlegm St-40 , St-37, Sp-3

> >

> >II. Stress: Liver Fire

> >

> > 1. Calm Fire Li-3, GB-34

> > 2. Treat Hun C7/T1, Bl-18, Bl-47

> > 3. Treat Anger Li-4, and sparingly Li-8

> > 4. Tonify Ki Yin

> > -1- Shu-Mu CV-4, Bl-23, Bl-52, Ki-3, Ki-7

> > -2- Zhi T7/T8

> > -3- LJ CV-5, CV-7; moxa Bl-22

> > -4- Calm Ki-3

> >

> >III. Deficient Innate Kidney Yang

> >

> > 1. Tonify Ki Yang CV-4, GV-4

> > 2. Circulate Heat in Cells

> > -1- CV (1) Sp/St CV-12, CV-13,

> >CV-10

> > (2) Wei LJ CV-5, CV-7

> > -2- Chong Mai Ki-11, Ki-12, Sp-4, XB-6

> > 3. Nasal Curious Points for St & Sp and sometimes Li/Ki

> >

> >

> >IV. Local Treatment for Obesity

> >

> > 1. Internal Path of the Spleen: Needle with long needle

> >from a point 3 cun lateral to CV-3 toward Sp-16, angled low to

> >high and medial to lateral into the dermis layer. Length of

> >needle depends on the severity of the obesity.

> > Electrostimulate dispersion 20-30 minutes.

> >

> > 2. Needle Thigh: GB-30 „³ GB-31 in the dermis layer.

Thread

> >and electrostimulate dispersion.

> >(He means moxa on all shu points in this)

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I would love to have the fulltext e-miled to me.

Thankyou

Ross

-

jasonwcom

Chinese Medicine

Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:17 AM

Re: Weight Loss Acupuncture Protocol

 

 

From Tran Viet Dzung:

This is someone's rough notes I cannot copy the graphics and the

footnotes which explain a lot into this text format. If anyone wants

the full thing e mail me...

 

Etiologies of Obesity:

 

Energetic Medicine Western Medicine

1. Poor Diet & #61664; Deficient Spleen Yang 1. Digestive Problems

2. Stress: Liver Fire 2. Stress &

Psychological Factors

3. Deficient Innate Kidney Yang 3. Genetic and

Neurologic

 

Must treat correctly and preventatively. Do not wait to treat, treat

before the patient becomes obese.

 

I. Poor Diet: Deficient Spleen Yang

1. overindulgence of food

2. eating too fast

3. eating too cold

 

Instead of the Spleen humidity going towards the Lungs it goes to

phlegm. Phlegm is the materialization of the stagnant humidity due

to hypofunctioning of the Spleen as a result of poor diet.

 

Humidity & #61664; Phlegm Cold & #61664; Phlegm Heat. The cold becomes maximum

and

then polarizes into heat. Phlegm Heat & #61664; Phlegm Fire. Phlegm Fire

moves and goes anywhere it wants, e.g. phlegm fire causes cough,

asthma. Another example is the bockage of energy in the shoulder

because phlegm fire has affected all channels that go through the

shoulder and this can lead to epilepsy, connective tissue,

dermatitis, hemaplagia, or obesity and cellulites. Treatment: Must

treat the Spleen.

 

II. Stress: Liver Fire

 

1. Psychological Factors

2. Permanent Stress of our society

 

Stress, fear of other psychological factors & #61664;

& #61674; Kidney & #61664; & #61673;Liver Yang & #61664; & #61674;

Spleen Yang & #61664; Obesity

Liver fire may be caused y psychological factors or by permanent

stress of our society. Stress inhibits Kidney Yin which leads to an

unfurling of Kidney Yang, which leads to Liver Fire, which acts on

the Spleen. Fear, which causes epinephrine surges, decreases Kidney

Yin and increases Kidney Yang. In addition, epinephrine causes and a

decrease glc uptake of muscles leading to insulin resistance. This

insulin resistance is the result of the Spleen/Pancreas not

functioning properly.

 

III. Deficient Innate Kidney Yang

 

& #61674; Kidney Yang & #61664; & #61674; Spleen Yang

 

 

 

Treatment Protocols for the Three Types of Obesity

 

I. Poor Diet: Deficient Spleen Yang

1. Spleen/Stomach System Reflex

-1- Shu-Mu Bl-20, Bl-21, Li-13, CV-12,

add source Sp-3, St-42

-2- Middle Jiao CV-12 (fundus), St-25, CV-10

(pylorus),

CV-13 (cardia), Bl-22

-3- Mobilize MF Moxa Bl-13, Bl-14, Bl-15, Bl-

42, Bl-43, Bl-44

add GV-14

-4- YangMing LI-4, LI-4, St-36, Sp-6

 

2. Wei Reflex

-1- Formation CV-5, CV-7, Bl-22

-2- Circulation inferior: St-30, CV-12, Li-13, Li-14

superior: St-5, St-9, CV-22,

CV-23, GV-14

-3- Ying Transit abdomen: Ki-16, St-25

back-shu: Moxa T10 & #61664; S1

-4-Root/Summit Sp: Sp-6, CV-23

St: St-45, St-9

 

3. Thinking Reflex `Move the thinking'

-1- Move Thinking Sp-1 move thinking

GB-40 make decision

Ki-3 take action

-2- Treat Yi T4/T5

Bl-20, Bl-49

-3- Treat Mental preoccupation: Sp-1

anger: Li-4

sadness: Lu-10

 

4. Treat the Phlegm St-40 , St-37, Sp-3

 

II. Stress: Liver Fire

 

1. Calm Fire Li-3, GB-34

2. Treat Hun C7/T1, Bl-18, Bl-47

3. Treat Anger Li-4, and sparingly Li-8

4. Tonify Ki Yin

-1- Shu-Mu CV-4, Bl-23, Bl-52, Ki-3, Ki-7

-2- Zhi T7/T8

-3- LJ CV-5, CV-7; moxa Bl-22

-4- Calm Ki-3

 

III. Deficient Innate Kidney Yang

 

1. Tonify Ki Yang CV-4, GV-4

2. Circulate Heat in Cells

-1- CV (1) Sp/St CV-12, CV-13,

CV-10

(2) Wei LJ CV-5, CV-7

-2- Chong Mai Ki-11, Ki-12, Sp-4, XB-6

3. Nasal Curious Points for St & Sp and sometimes Li/Ki

 

 

IV. Local Treatment for Obesity

 

1. Internal Path of the Spleen: Needle with long needle

from a point 3 cun lateral to CV-3 toward Sp-16, angled low to

high and medial to lateral into the dermis layer. Length of

needle depends on the severity of the obesity.

Electrostimulate dispersion 20-30 minutes.

 

2. Needle Thigh: GB-30 & #61664; GB-31 in the dermis layer. Thread

and electrostimulate dispersion.

(He means moxa on all shu points in this)

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Jason,

 

In your mail, you used some kind of index that was linked to the

Chinese term, for example: Spleen Yang & #61664

 

Have you a link to a database that shows those terms and the index

numbers?

 

Best regards,

 

HOME + WORK: 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Tel: (H): +353-(0) or (M): +353-(0)

<

 

 

 

" Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt man doing it " -

Chinese Proverb

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Jason,

I would like a copy as well. Thanks in advance.

Larlee

 

mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: Jason,

I would love a copy of the asteemed Dr. Tran's notes.

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

 

 

 

 

> " jasonwcom "

>Chinese Medicine

>Chinese Medicine

>Re: Weight Loss Acupuncture Protocol

>Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:17:26 -0000

>

>From Tran Viet Dzung:

>This is someone's rough notes I cannot copy the graphics and the

>footnotes which explain a lot into this text format. If anyone wants

>the full thing e mail me...

>

>Etiologies of Obesity:

>

>Energetic Medicine Western Medicine

>1. Poor Diet�� Deficient Spleen Yang 1. Digestive Problems

>2. Stress: Liver Fire 2. Stress &

>Psychological Factors

>3. Deficient Innate Kidney Yang 3. Genetic and

>Neurologic

>

>Must treat correctly and preventatively. Do not wait to treat, treat

>before the patient becomes obese.

>

>I. Poor Diet: Deficient Spleen Yang

> 1. overindulgence of food

> 2. eating too fast

> 3. eating too cold

>

>Instead of the Spleen humidity going towards the Lungs it goes to

>phlegm. Phlegm is the materialization of the stagnant humidity due

>to hypofunctioning of the Spleen as a result of poor diet.

>

>Humidity �� Phlegm Cold �� Phlegm Heat. The cold becomes maximum and

>then polarizes into heat. Phlegm Heat �� Phlegm Fire. Phlegm Fire

>moves and goes anywhere it wants, e.g. phlegm fire causes cough,

>asthma. Another example is the bockage of energy in the shoulder

>because phlegm fire has affected all channels that go through the

>shoulder and this can lead to epilepsy, connective tissue,

>dermatitis, hemaplagia, or obesity and cellulites. Treatment: Must

>treat the Spleen.

>

>II. Stress: Liver Fire

>

> 1. Psychological Factors

> 2. Permanent Stress of our society

>

>Stress, fear of other psychological factors��

> �� Kidney �� ��Liver Yang �� �� Spleen Yang ��

Obesity

>Liver fire may be caused y psychological factors or by permanent

>stress of our society. Stress inhibits Kidney Yin which leads to an

>unfurling of Kidney Yang, which leads to Liver Fire, which acts on

>the Spleen. Fear, which causes epinephrine surges, decreases Kidney

>Yin and increases Kidney Yang. In addition, epinephrine causes and a

>decrease glc uptake of muscles leading to insulin resistance. This

>insulin resistance is the result of the Spleen/Pancreas not

>functioning properly.

>

>III. Deficient Innate Kidney Yang

>

> �� Kidney Yang �� �� Spleen Yang

>

>

>

>Treatment Protocols for the Three Types of Obesity

>

>I. Poor Diet: Deficient Spleen Yang

> 1. Spleen/Stomach System Reflex

> -1- Shu-Mu Bl-20, Bl-21, Li-13, CV-12,

> add source Sp-3, St-42

> -2- Middle Jiao CV-12 (fundus), St-25, CV-10

>(pylorus),

> CV-13 (cardia), Bl-22

> -3- Mobilize MF Moxa Bl-13, Bl-14, Bl-15, Bl-

>42, Bl-43, Bl-44

> add GV-14

> -4- YangMing LI-4, LI-4, St-36, Sp-6

>

> 2. Wei Reflex

> -1- Formation CV-5, CV-7, Bl-22

> -2- Circulation inferior: St-30, CV-12, Li-13, Li-14

> superior: St-5, St-9, CV-22,

>CV-23, GV-14

> -3- Ying Transit abdomen: Ki-16, St-25

> back-shu: Moxa T10�� S1

> -4-Root/Summit Sp: Sp-6, CV-23

> St: St-45, St-9

>

> 3. Thinking Reflex `Move the thinking'

> -1- Move Thinking Sp-1 move thinking

> GB-40 make decision

> Ki-3 take action

> -2- Treat Yi T4/T5

> Bl-20, Bl-49

> -3- Treat Mental preoccupation: Sp-1

> anger: Li-4

> sadness: Lu-10

>

> 4. Treat the Phlegm St-40 , St-37, Sp-3

>

>II. Stress: Liver Fire

>

> 1. Calm Fire Li-3, GB-34

> 2. Treat Hun C7/T1, Bl-18, Bl-47

> 3. Treat Anger Li-4, and sparingly Li-8

> 4. Tonify Ki Yin

> -1- Shu-Mu CV-4, Bl-23, Bl-52, Ki-3, Ki-7

> -2- Zhi T7/T8

> -3- LJ CV-5, CV-7; moxa Bl-22

> -4- Calm Ki-3

>

>III. Deficient Innate Kidney Yang

>

> 1. Tonify Ki Yang CV-4, GV-4

> 2. Circulate Heat in Cells

> -1- CV (1) Sp/St CV-12, CV-13,

>CV-10

> (2) Wei LJ CV-5, CV-7

> -2- Chong Mai Ki-11, Ki-12, Sp-4, XB-6

> 3. Nasal Curious Points for St & Sp and sometimes Li/Ki

>

>

>IV. Local Treatment for Obesity

>

> 1. Internal Path of the Spleen: Needle with long needle

>from a point 3 cun lateral to CV-3 toward Sp-16, angled low to

>high and medial to lateral into the dermis layer. Length of

>needle depends on the severity of the obesity.

> Electrostimulate dispersion 20-30 minutes.

>

> 2. Needle Thigh: GB-30 �� GB-31 in the dermis layer. Thread

>and electrostimulate dispersion.

>(He means moxa on all shu points in this)

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click,

http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145

 

 

and adjust

accordingly.

 

 

 

Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely

necessary.