cupping

[Guest guest]

> Thought that any of you that having fibro problems and IBS symptoms

> might want to look into seeing if this would benefit you too.

> It is supposed to help relieve stubborn muscle cramps also.

 

Thanks. I hadn't thought of trying cupping for fibromyalgia. Since

acupoints often are tender in people with Fibromyalgia Syndrome (and

CFIDS), finding the points should be no problem for those who wish to

experiement cautiously at home. A number of basic books give

instructions for cupping. As with anything, stop if you feel worse

instead of better.

 

Can any of the professionals on the list think of any

contraindications? I can't besides the usual contraindications for

certain points for pregnant women.

 

Victoria

[Guest guest]

On Wednesday, August 27, 2003, at 10:18 AM, victoria_dragon wrote:

 

> Can any of the professionals on the list think of any

> contraindications? I can't besides the usual contraindications for

> certain points for pregnant women.

 

I would watch out for open wounds as the suction can pull blood out or

reopen the wound. Removing blood may be therapeutically sound, but I

would probably consult with a professional or do it in a more

controlled environment before suggesting that kids try this at home.

 

I'd also be careful with patients or individuals who are prone to

bruising as the cupping can really aggravate that condition. People who

are on blood thinners for instance may get a big fat ugly bruise,

perhaps actually creating more of a problem than what was being treated.

 

Locations for cupping include just about anywhere there is a flat

enough surface for the cup to suck up some skin. This would obviously

remove the eyes for instance from appropriate locations. And

gentlemen... don't even think about it.

 

These are the only things that I can think of, but here's a bit more

from a good article on-line found at:

http://www.geocities.com/altmedd/cupping.htm

 

It is not advisable to apply cupping to the patient with skin ulcer,

edema, or on an area overlying large blood vessels, to the patient with

high fever and convulsion ; or to the abdominal and sacral regions of

the pregnant women.

 

It is not suitable to apply cupping to the patient susceptible to

spontaneous bleeding or endless bleeding after trauma.

 

After cupping, there is a blood stasis or bruise at the local area.

Generally, it will disappear several days later. Small blisters

occurring on the skin will absorb naturally several days later. If the

blisters are severe, draw out the liquid by a sterile syringe, apply

gentian violet and cover them with gauze to prevent infection.

 

--

 

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

-Adlai Stevenson

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Victoria,

 

The cupping contraindications I've learned include:

 

ulceration of the skin

blisters

edema

skin allergies

scar tissue

fever

emaciation, thin skin or muscle

over large blood vessels

varicose veins

bony areas

convulsions

cardiac failure

malignant tumor

hemorrhagic disease, susceptibility to bleeding

during menses

very weak, elderly or debilitated

over previous sites of cupping (if the area is still congested from a previous

treatment or the blood has not yet been reabsorbed)

in pregnancy, avoid abdominal area and related back areas

-

victoria_dragon

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Wednesday, August 27, 2003 12:18 PM

[Chinese Traditional Medicine] Re: cupping

 

 

> Thought that any of you that having fibro problems and IBS symptoms

> might want to look into seeing if this would benefit you too.

> It is supposed to help relieve stubborn muscle cramps also.

 

Thanks. I hadn't thought of trying cupping for fibromyalgia. Since

acupoints often are tender in people with Fibromyalgia Syndrome (and

CFIDS), finding the points should be no problem for those who wish to

experiement cautiously at home. A number of basic books give

instructions for cupping. As with anything, stop if you feel worse

instead of better.

 

Can any of the professionals on the list think of any

contraindications? I can't besides the usual contraindications for

certain points for pregnant women.

 

Victoria

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> These are the only things that I can think of, but here's a bit

more

> from a good article on-line found at:

> http://www.geocities.com/altmedd/cupping.htm

 

Thanks, Al for the info on cupping contraindications.

 

> It is not suitable to apply cupping to the patient susceptible to

> spontaneous bleeding or endless bleeding after trauma.

 

So it would be out in cases of Heat in the Blood or Spleen Not

Controlling Blood? (For readers new to TCM, these are two possible

Roots of hemmorhaging and easy bruising.)

>

> After cupping, there is a blood stasis or bruise at the local area.

> Generally, it will disappear several days later. Small blisters

> occurring on the skin will absorb naturally several days later. If

the

> blisters are severe, draw out the liquid by a sterile syringe,

apply

> gentian violet and cover them with gauze to prevent infection.

 

If there is no therapeudic reason to let Blood Stasis or bruising

occur, you might want to try a salt and apple cidar vinegar pack over

the area to prevent the bruise from forming. (As many times as I've

seen these packs prevent bruising, I still find it amazing how well

they can work.)

 

Victoria

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Jessica.

 

Readers interested in cautiously experimenting with cupping may want

to keep a copy of these contraindications.

 

Victoria

 

> The cupping contraindications I've learned include:

>

> ulceration of the skin

> blisters

> edema

> skin allergies

> scar tissue

> fever

> emaciation, thin skin or muscle

> over large blood vessels

> varicose veins

> bony areas

> convulsions

> cardiac failure

> malignant tumor

> hemorrhagic disease, susceptibility to bleeding

> during menses

> very weak, elderly or debilitated

> over previous sites of cupping (if the area is still congested from

a previous treatment or the blood has not yet been reabsorbed)

> in pregnancy, avoid abdominal area and related back areas

[Guest guest]

On Saturday, August 30, 2003, at 08:30 AM, victoria_dragon wrote:

 

> So it would be out in cases of Heat in the Blood or Spleen Not

> Controlling Blood? (For readers new to TCM, these are two possible

> Roots of hemmorhaging and easy bruising.)

 

I wouldn't say " out " but I would definitely say " caution " .

 

--

 

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

-Adlai Stevenson

[Guest guest]

Hi Simon,

 

My teacher uses cups whenever he believes the " blockage " (the cause of

stagnation) is deep and localized (e.g., muscle, bone marrow). Using

this model of disease, one can say that the qi around the area has

become " cold " because it is " blocked " . There is both excess and

deficiency in this area because of the blockage. Depending where the

blockage occurs (e.g. in the spine), a " whole person " may be

" deficient " relative to the " outside world " (in this case the patient

may appear to be deficient relative to the practitioner).

 

By eliminating the notion of " tonifying " and replacing this notion

with the concept of " blockage " then it is possible to understand how

to use cups when there are all kinds of conditions.

 

Here is how Illkay Zhihni Chirali describes the principles underlying

Cupping in his book, " TCM Cupping Therapy " :

 

" Cupping regulates the flow of Qi and Blood. It helps to draw out and

elimnate pathogenic factors such as Wind, Cold, Damp and Heat. Cupping

alos moves Qi and Blook and opens the pores of the skin, thus

precipitating the removal of pathogens through the skin itself. In my

opinion, nothing moves QI and Blood faster than cupping. From the very

start of its application one can observe the blood moving in the

direction of the cup. Where a patient's energy is deficient this

movement will be slow; if the energy is abundant it will be much quicker. "

 

In other words, Cupping gets the qi/blood moving again in a

" regulated " manner by removing obstructions.

 

The book I referred to is a Churchill Livingstone book.

 

Regards,

Rich

 

Chinese Medicine , " wackname "

<wackname> wrote:

>

>

> hello again,

>

> it's getting warm again here in Canberra so i've got my cups out

> again (way too cold for exposed skin in winter!) and am having fun

> bruising my friends. Now i've had great success using cups in areas

> of qi/blood stagnation - usually around the shoulders and

> middle/upper back, also in the gallbladder and bladder channels in

> the hips - but how does one use them effectively in deficient areas?

> can they be used well on very soft, deficient people?

>

> it's one of those things where I know i can use moxa in one place

> for tonifying, cups somewhere else for sedating-dispersing,

> tuina/shiatsu for that bit over there...and show some exercises to

> strengthen this area....what I mean is that with the various methods

> I know already I can cover most basic physical things, but since I'm

> trying to expand my range of skills I'd like to know if anyone has

> any basic (or not so basic) tips for how to use cups for different

> conditions (not just excessive-stagnation ones)?

>

> Thanks!

>

> Simon

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , " Rich " <rfinkelstein@a...>

wrote:

>

>

> By eliminating the notion of " tonifying " and replacing this notion

> with the concept of " blockage " then it is possible to understand how

> to use cups when there are all kinds of conditions.

>

 

Birch & Ida's " Japanese Acupuncture a Clinical Guide " has a section on cupping

which

details supplementing and draining with cups.

 

rh

[Guest guest]

There is a really nice discussion of cupping techniques in a book

called " japanese acupuncture " by stephen birch.

http://www.redwingbooks.com/html/catalog/index.cfm/action_search/type_

detail/InventoryKey_japacucligui/file_Extra

 

This is the only book I've seen that describes a number of different

cupping protocols for various syndromes. I don't have it here right

now, and don't remember off hand all of the diffferent syndromes it

addresses, but one case for deficiency that cupping works well for is

low back pain. And you can always add herbal solutions to the cups to

tailor the cupping for a given situation.

 

--brian

 

Chinese Medicine , " wackname "

<wackname> wrote:

>

>

> hello again,

>

> it's getting warm again here in Canberra so i've got my cups out

> again (way too cold for exposed skin in winter!) and am having fun

> bruising my friends. Now i've had great success using cups in areas

> of qi/blood stagnation - usually around the shoulders and

> middle/upper back, also in the gallbladder and bladder channels in

> the hips - but how does one use them effectively in deficient

areas?

> can they be used well on very soft, deficient people?

>

> it's one of those things where I know i can use moxa in one place

> for tonifying, cups somewhere else for sedating-dispersing,

> tuina/shiatsu for that bit over there...and show some exercises to

> strengthen this area....what I mean is that with the various

methods

> I know already I can cover most basic physical things, but since

I'm

> trying to expand my range of skills I'd like to know if anyone has

> any basic (or not so basic) tips for how to use cups for different

> conditions (not just excessive-stagnation ones)?

>

> Thanks!

>

> Simon

[Guest guest]

Hi RObert, Simon, et. al

 

> > By eliminating the notion of " tonifying " and replacing this notion

> > with the concept of " blockage " then it is possible to understand how

> > to use cups when there are all kinds of conditions.

> >

>

> Birch & Ida's " Japanese Acupuncture a Clinical Guide " has a section

on cupping which

> details supplementing and draining with cups.

>

> rh

 

Thanks for the additional referecnce Robert.

 

In order to further clarify my positing I will reference a book that I

just acquired based upon a recommendation by Brian.

 

Tom Tam's book " Tom Tam's Healing System " describes the model that I

speak about with remarkable clarity. For me it is fascinating that my

teacher and Tom Tam's model are so much alike. Apparently there is

some historical context.

 

Tam speaks about his system (which is extremely similar to the one

that I am learning) is a modern version of the old system called

Huatuojiaji. According to Tam, this system was developed by the famous

medical doctor, DOctor Hua Tuo, who lived two thousand years ago. He

states:

 

" Today all of TCM schools in China teach Huatuojiaji, but the

information taught is unclear. When we read acupuncture textbooks,

seldom do we see the usage of the Huatuojiaji method. " " The

Huatuojiaji is a very famous healing system in TCM history. ITs fame

is from itseffectiveness and achievement. Because of politics, Dr

Huatao was killed, his book burned and lost from history. Many Chinese

doctors have tried to find and revive this system, yet with no

success. " " The name Huatuojiaj translates as " to treat the spinal

cord. " " Jiaji in CHinese means " both sides of the spine. In theory it

is similar to the Western chiropractic system. "

 

" My diagnosis of sickness is different from TCM. TCM diagnosis is

based upon Chi blockages detected by the pulse and tongue and not

physically felt. The TCM doctor needs a lot of experience and only

then can locate the Chi imbalance. Either the mind or a physical

blockage may cause the Chi blockage. In my system, each blockage must

be physically felt when pressed. Different diseases have different

blockages. It is easy to find and touch the blockage from the

patient's body. " " Each blockage can be related or be independent of

each other. " When we treat the body, we require opening all of the

blockages in the body, even if they are not related. Only when the

body is without any blockage can it be free. "

 

He then goes on to explain how he uses acupuncture, Tui Na, and Chi

Gong to remove various types of blockages. Using this model, it is

very easy to loot at cupping as simply a way to remove deep blockages

in a body. Deeper and more localized than what can be treated Gua Sha

- but accomplishing the same thing - removing a blockage. There is no

reason to introduce " tonification " or " removing excess " from the

vocabularly. " Balance " is a simple, natural result of removing

blockages. It is exactly the same as a water pipe that is blocked. We

don't try to tonify or " balance " the pipe - we just try to remove the

blockage so the water can flow again.

 

Of course, each practitioner will choose a model that they feel most

comfortable with. What I was pointing out that it is possible to treat

all kinds of conditions using cupping without requiring the notion of

" tonification " .

 

Regards,

Rich

[Guest guest]

The text Rich mentions also specifies specific cupping techniques for

tonification. ie. only use light to medium suction and do not retain

longer than 30 minutes. These less intense methods he claims are

suitable for treating weak and debilitated patients and have the

function of tonifying qi and blood while also gently moving them to

treat blockages. The big message here is that a weak patients need

weaker cupping as strong/normal cupping that results in bruising etc.

will further weaken the patient, even if they do have stagnation.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Steve

 

 

On 06/10/2004, at 10:30 PM, Rich wrote:

 

>

>

>

> Hi Simon,

>

> My teacher uses cups whenever he believes the " blockage " (the cause of

> stagnation) is deep and localized (e.g., muscle, bone marrow). Using

> this model of disease, one can say that the qi around the area has

> become " cold " because it is " blocked " . There is both excess and

> deficiency in this area because of the blockage. Depending where the

> blockage occurs (e.g. in the spine), a " whole person " may be

> " deficient " relative to the " outside world " (in this case the patient

> may appear to be deficient relative to the practitioner).

>

> By eliminating the notion of " tonifying " and replacing this notion

> with the concept of " blockage " then it is possible to understand how

> to use cups when there are all kinds of conditions.

>

> Here is how Illkay Zhihni Chirali describes the principles underlying

> Cupping in his book, " TCM Cupping Therapy " :

>

> " Cupping regulates the flow of Qi and Blood. It helps to draw out and

> elimnate pathogenic factors such as Wind, Cold, Damp and Heat. Cupping

> alos moves Qi and Blook and opens the pores of the skin, thus

> precipitating the removal of pathogens through the skin itself. In my

> opinion, nothing moves QI and Blood faster than cupping. From the very

> start of its application one can observe the blood moving in the

> direction of the cup. Where a patient's energy is deficient this

> movement will be slow; if the energy is abundant it will be much

> quicker. "

>

> In other words, Cupping gets the qi/blood moving again in a

> " regulated " manner by removing obstructions.

>

> The book I referred to is a Churchill Livingstone book.

>

> Regards,

> Rich

>

> Chinese Medicine , " wackname "

> <wackname> wrote:

>>

>>

>> hello again,

>>

>> it's getting warm again here in Canberra so i've got my cups out

>> again (way too cold for exposed skin in winter!) and am having fun

>> bruising my friends. Now i've had great success using cups in areas

>> of qi/blood stagnation - usually around the shoulders and

>> middle/upper back, also in the gallbladder and bladder channels in

>> the hips - but how does one use them effectively in deficient areas?

>> can they be used well on very soft, deficient people?

>>

>> it's one of those things where I know i can use moxa in one place

>> for tonifying, cups somewhere else for sedating-dispersing,

>> tuina/shiatsu for that bit over there...and show some exercises to

>> strengthen this area....what I mean is that with the various methods

>> I know already I can cover most basic physical things, but since I'm

>> trying to expand my range of skills I'd like to know if anyone has

>> any basic (or not so basic) tips for how to use cups for different

>> conditions (not just excessive-stagnation ones)?

>>

>> Thanks!

>>

>> Simon

[Guest guest]

Rich

 

This comment is so 'right-on'.

 

Thinking outside the box such as simply releasing the blockage and allow the

being to go back to balance.

 

Often times..... 'words' and their meanings tie us up in neuroligcal knots as

we try to match them and figure them out.

 

Richard

 

In a message dated 10/7/2004 5:18:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

rfinkelstein writes:

He then goes on to explain how he uses acupuncture, Tui Na, and Chi

Gong to remove various types of blockages. Using this model, it is

very easy to loot at cupping as simply a way to remove deep blockages

in a body. Deeper and more localized than what can be treated Gua Sha

- but accomplishing the same thing - removing a blockage. There is no

reason to introduce " tonification " or " removing excess " from the

vocabularly. " Balance " is a simple, natural result of removing

blockages. It is exactly the same as a water pipe that is blocked. We

don't try to tonify or " balance " the pipe - we just try to remove the

blockage so the water can flow again.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Rich

 

I am just now putting to words what has been experiential for quite some

time. I am sure that my description is lacking along the way.... issues which p

ractitioners would better understand in a real-time situation. Thats why - this

Saturday I will be sharing what I have been working with for years with other

Florida practitioners. A few who know me and are local already know and have

seen some aspects of this work. The majority though will have their vision

expanded somewhat whether or not they decide to use it.

 

I envision that all over the world from practitioners all along the health

care continuum including people at home can use this successfully to relieve the

majority of myofascial pain syndrome which are costing humans to suffer

unnecessarily while costing the economy(s) in the hundreds of billions of

dollars.

The controlling-system won't like this very much because its not about making

money - its about simply relieving much of the pain.

 

As already answered to Pam.....seminars have been an option brewing. I am

open as long as there are a sufficient number who are interested.

 

Regards,

Richard

 

 

 

In a message dated 10/7/2004 8:07:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

rfinkelstein writes:

It is very much like the techniques that I am learning

... but more refined. It seems like you have developed quite a bit of

" sensitity " to sha in your years of practice. I hope that I am able to

observe you in practice at some point. If you ever give seminars,

please let me know.

 

In regards to " thinking out of the box " :

 

My approach is to try to simplify my understanding of nature. Whether

one calls it KISS or Occam's Razor, it is all about understanding what

makes things " tick " . By thinking in terms of " eliminating blockages " ,

everything becomes greatly simplified and what's more important

everything makes sense. How can cupping tonify or sedate? It doesn't.

It does one thing, and one thing only ... and it does it extremely

well. It removes blockages. That is why people from all cultures have

been using cupping for thousands of years, without having to resort to

any complex theories or concerns. It simply opens things up and lets

the energy flow. The " effect " may be that the body is " tonified " (i.e.

feels more energetic) or " sedate " (i.e. the body is finally freed from

its excess " sludge " - and that is really all it is) but the effects

are a result of removing blockages. Just like a pond is " rejuvenated "

when fresh water comes pouring in.

 

This is, I believe, exactly what acupunture, tuina, attempt to do. So

the objective of the practitioner is to figure out how " technique A "

will eliminate the " blockages " in the body. Guasha and cupping as well

as direct bodywork seem to be some of the most direct ways to do it.

 

When a person looks at a stuck toilet, there are many options. The

simplest may be Liquid Plumber (requires the least amount of manual

work) but it is questionable whether Liquid Plumber will have enough

" energetic force " to open up the blockage. The person may try a

hanger, a plunger, and possibly may have to resort to a " snake " which

requires the most time. All of these techniques have their pros and

cons but all work on the same fundamental principle - to remove the

blockages.

 

If I try to explain the principles of wach one of these techniques

independently, without looking at the commonality that they must work

under, I would probably come up with a very complex theory that does

not explain all of the techniques fully. I believe there is lots of

merit to looking at CM with Occam's Razor. Most importantly, using

this model I can quickly explain to people what they need to do to

maintain their own good health .. which I believe the Neijing says is

the highest form of practice.

 

Thank you again for your wonderful description of your Cupping practice.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Richard,

 

> This comment is so 'right-on'.

>

> Thinking outside the box such as simply releasing the blockage and

allow the

> being to go back to balance.

>

> Often times..... 'words' and their meanings tie us up in neuroligcal

knots as

> we try to match them and figure them out.

>

> Richard

 

Thank you for your kind reply. I read your description of Cupping with

great interest. It is very much like the techniques that I am learning

... but more refined. It seems like you have developed quite a bit of

" sensitity " to sha in your years of practice. I hope that I am able to

observe you in practice at some point. If you ever give seminars,

please let me know.

 

In regards to " thinking out of the box " :

 

My approach is to try to simplify my understanding of nature. Whether

one calls it KISS or Occam's Razor, it is all about understanding what

makes things " tick " . By thinking in terms of " eliminating blockages " ,

everything becomes greatly simplified and what's more important

everything makes sense. How can cupping tonify or sedate? It doesn't.

It does one thing, and one thing only ... and it does it extremely

well. It removes blockages. That is why people from all cultures have

been using cupping for thousands of years, without having to resort to

any complex theories or concerns. It simply opens things up and lets

the energy flow. The " effect " may be that the body is " tonified " (i.e.

feels more energetic) or " sedate " (i.e. the body is finally freed from

its excess " sludge " - and that is really all it is) but the effects

are a result of removing blockages. Just like a pond is " rejuvenated "

when fresh water comes pouring in.

 

This is, I believe, exactly what acupunture, tuina, attempt to do. So

the objective of the practitioner is to figure out how " technique A "

will eliminate the " blockages " in the body. Guasha and cupping as well

as direct bodywork seem to be some of the most direct ways to do it.

 

When a person looks at a stuck toilet, there are many options. The

simplest may be Liquid Plumber (requires the least amount of manual

work) but it is questionable whether Liquid Plumber will have enough

" energetic force " to open up the blockage. The person may try a

hanger, a plunger, and possibly may have to resort to a " snake " which

requires the most time. All of these techniques have their pros and

cons but all work on the same fundamental principle - to remove the

blockages.

 

If I try to explain the principles of wach one of these techniques

independently, without looking at the commonality that they must work

under, I would probably come up with a very complex theory that does

not explain all of the techniques fully. I believe there is lots of

merit to looking at CM with Occam's Razor. Most importantly, using

this model I can quickly explain to people what they need to do to

maintain their own good health .. which I believe the Neijing says is

the highest form of practice.

 

Thank you again for your wonderful description of your Cupping practice.

 

Regards,

Rich

[Guest guest]

Hi Richard,

 

As my network here in Chicago grows, I will poll practitioners to see

who may be interested in a seminar/workshop. I know in my immediate

circle there are probably a half-dozen at this time - but more and

more people are being exposed to cupping and guasha and the interest

is definitely growing rapidly. I will begin to let people know about

the possibility and will keep in touch with you.

 

Nowadays, my wife and I routinely use guasha and cupping to treat the

onset of colds, acute pain and chronic pains, rashes, etc. Cupping and

guasha were instrumental of finally ridding my body of stagnation that

was causing a whole host of symptoms such as lower-back pain,

bursitis, chronic shoulder pains, etc. And as you said, it is

something that any person can learn to do in their own home - or

workplace. :-)

 

Thanks a lot, and I will keep in touch.

 

Regards,

Rich

[Guest guest]

Never thought to see the day when so much is written about the simplest

application

in TCM which is cupping.

 

I like the analogy of the stuck water pipe the best; release the block and

the hydraulics

know what to do.

 

One finding though, wonder if it is common:

The yang surfaces perform better than yin at cupping, the yang of the torso

better

than that of limbs, the yang of chest better than that of lower back.

 

Maybe the great concentration of the shu points in the back of the chest may

explain

that.

 

Another neat approach is cupping the points of the Venerable Dr. Huato, if

that is the

correct name.

 

Anecdotally, try cupping on a person, a male more so, with HT aggressing on

LU, and

the LI component ready to bust open.

 

Place a cup at LU shu's and you'll rue the day you did it unprepared, it'll

splash full of Blood

and give you an interesting afternoon clearing clots from the table and your

hands, if

you were not prepared with glove and lint and fortitude and a large sense of

humor.

 

Have always checked for a wound, after the clean up. Not one, skin as smooth

and

whole as the rest of the back.

 

'S possible for one to bleed like a pig via whole skin.

 

Go figure.

 

Be good everyone.

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - 15 CEUS by video.

NCCAOM reviewed. Approved in CA & most states.

[Guest guest]

> How can cupping tonify or sedate? It doesn't.

> It does one thing, and one thing only ... and it does it extremely

> well. It removes blockages.

 

I love it when people make sense! that's great, thank you.

 

So....if I think about someone with weak kidneys and lower back, and

fullness in the heart and liver regions (all on the bladder channels),

then I could use strong cupping around BL 15 and 18 to draw out the

stagnation and light cupping in the lower back to draw qi and blood

into that area.

 

that makes sense to me....but does that mean that for this purpose the

cups on the lower back should be applied at a strength that will not

leave any red marks behind? (assuming there is no blood stagnation...)

 

Simon

[Guest guest]

Hi Rich

 

For me.....in my practice....I chose years ago to use BaGuaFa as THE PRIMARY

treatment of choice. So it can be used for just about any malady.

 

As interest grows....I look forward for the opportunity to share.

 

Richard

 

 

 

In a message dated 10/7/2004 2:19:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

rfinkelstein writes:

Hi Richard,

 

As my network here in Chicago grows, I will poll practitioners to see

who may be interested in a seminar/workshop. I know in my immediate

circle there are probably a half-dozen at this time - but more and

more people are being exposed to cupping and guasha and the interest

is definitely growing rapidly. I will begin to let people know about

the possibility and will keep in touch with you.

 

Nowadays, my wife and I routinely use guasha and cupping to treat the

onset of colds, acute pain and chronic pains, rashes, etc. Cupping and

guasha were instrumental of finally ridding my body of stagnation that

was causing a whole host of symptoms such as lower-back pain,

bursitis, chronic shoulder pains, etc. And as you said, it is

something that any person can learn to do in their own home - or

workplace. :-)

 

Thanks a lot, and I will keep in touch.

 

Regards,

Rich

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Simon

 

Generally speaking taking into account the amount of suction pressure.... WE

don't or maybe its better said that we CAN NOT leave any marks on the body

even if we tried (of course considering within a general amount of pressure). If

the 'sha' is there it will be released within 5 seconds. One can cup with a

general pressure (also considering the condition of the patient) and not be

concerned about leaving or making any marks. With the same pressure as you move

around the back you will SEE the differences patient to patient - condition to

condition - treatment to treatment. One can only amass clarity by the doing. So

far there are NO books that go into this in a deeper experiential way - which

os not to say that no one has experienced this. No disprespect to the authors

of the books in print.

 

As to techniques or combinations thereof......some use GuaSha combined with

needles; some use Cupping combined with needles; I chose to use GuaSha and

Cupping together.

 

In an opposite condition.....consider that blood can pool in a downward

direction such as in blunt trauma. So the reverse may be found at times. For

example..... my youngest brother was claiming about low back pain. When I

treated

him I found the original injury site to the rotator cuff muscles and in his low

back/hip loads of purple blood stagnation. I was concerned so I took him to a

friend MD-ortho who examined, x-rayd the shoulder and confirmed that

blood-pools-down.

 

Often in sciatica I find blood stagnation that must be released in the

contralateral shoulder, a mid-back area of blood stagnation right over the spine

along with the blood stagnation in the lumbar-sacral/hip area. This results in a

fast release and recovery. They will be sore as heck for 24-48 hours from the

BaGuaFa because the already traumatized area from the muscle spasms/injury are

further aggravated. The nerves are already irritated so a cautioned BaGuaFa

no matter how gentle applied WILL aggravate the area more BUT the deeper

impingement is usually TOTALLY gone (at that first treatment) and the topical

soreness will be short lived. The overall healing will be greatly enhanced.

 

Carpal tunnel and say lateral epicondylitis - these simple multiple nerve

'crush' impingements are much easier to find and release. If the sciatic is a

severe case it will take 2-3 aggressive treatments. The pictures I will upload

will show a recent case over the three days.

 

Richard

 

In a message dated 10/8/2004 6:07:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

wackname writes:

I love it when people make sense! that's great, thank you.

 

So....if I think about someone with weak kidneys and lower back, and

fullness in the heart and liver regions (all on the bladder channels),

then I could use strong cupping around BL 15 and 18 to draw out the

stagnation and light cupping in the lower back to draw qi and blood

into that area.

 

that makes sense to me....but does that mean that for this purpose the

cups on the lower back should be applied at a strength that will not

leave any red marks behind? (assuming there is no blood stagnation...)

 

Simon

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Rich

 

Another protocol (some call it a secret) is to additionally use moxa or TDP

lamp after BaGuaFa or cupping or GuaSha. This also helps in the further

dissipation.

 

Another interesting case recently of TMJ almost like lock jaw. Female patient

allowed me to released purple-black stagnation in cheek. Released more in the

neck and shoulder and still no change. When I used BaGuaFa on GB34 and LV3

bilaterally....the jaw instantly released. So BOTH local and distal was needed

in this complex case.

 

Richard

 

 

 

In a message dated 10/8/2004 9:37:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

rfinkelstein writes:

So I do not think in terms of doing tuina work and cupping only

particular points or meridians. I do bodywork on the whole body -

everything. The muscles, joints, tendons, ligaments, energetic

meridians (using qigong I 'clear out " the sludge in the energetic

pathways). And that which I cannot move with my hands or my qigong

energy, I use guasha and cupping. With on idea - to clean out the

body, so new blood and energy can come in and flow through the body in

order to keep it clean. Clean from all kinds of potential accumulated

growth whether it be toxins, bacteria, viruses, whatever. In this way

the body maintains itself - until a new blockage may arise again - in

the Mind?

 

Hope this makes sense. Others, who use cupping on particular points

and meridians may be more helpful to you, but I hope this explains my

approach a bit better.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Simon,

>

> that makes sense to me....but does that mean that for this purpose the

> cups on the lower back should be applied at a strength that will not

> leave any red marks behind? (assuming there is no blood stagnation...)

>

> Simon

 

The way I have been trained, is to apply cupping in areas that have

deep stagnation in the muscle or bone marrow, which is localized and

not treatable using guasha. I have been also cautioned to leave the

cups for no more than 3 minutes on " soft " (yin) areas because it can

leave permanent marks behind. This is far more time than Richard had

recommended in his description so maybe you might want to have a

discourse with Richard who has far more experience than I do.

 

The deeper the color - sometimes it is black, or black and purple -

the more severe the blockage. But it is a positive sign when the

black/purple stagnation is drawn out and allowed to dissipate. In my

training, there is very deep and vigourous bodywork all around the

cupping area, before cupping is applied, so that the stagnation has

" open rivers " in which to flow once it is drawn out. Just like working

on a piping system. If I am going to unclog one portion of a pipe, I

better be sure that the pipe is clear downstream so that the " sludge "

has somewhere to go.

 

Over time, the dark stagnation turns into a lighter red or eventually

pink. When it reaches this stage, the blockage is clear. But during

each cupping treatment, there is prior to treatment vigorous massage

work to keep all channels (physical and energetic) open.

 

So I do not think in terms of doing tuina work and cupping only

particular points or meridians. I do bodywork on the whole body -

everything. The muscles, joints, tendons, ligaments, energetic

meridians (using qigong I 'clear out " the sludge in the energetic

pathways). And that which I cannot move with my hands or my qigong

energy, I use guasha and cupping. With on idea - to clean out the

body, so new blood and energy can come in and flow through the body in

order to keep it clean. Clean from all kinds of potential accumulated

growth whether it be toxins, bacteria, viruses, whatever. In this way

the body maintains itself - until a new blockage may arise again - in

the Mind?

 

Hope this makes sense. Others, who use cupping on particular points

and meridians may be more helpful to you, but I hope this explains my

approach a bit better.

 

Regards,

Rich

[Guest guest]

> Hi Rich

>

> For me.....in my practice....I chose years ago to use BaGuaFa as THE

PRIMARY

> treatment of choice. So it can be used for just about any malady.

>

> As interest grows....I look forward for the opportunity to share.

>

> Richard

 

Hi Richard,

 

Yes, I noticed that from your description. I can readily envision how

cupping can become a primary treatment of choice. It is an extgremely

effective technique for removing blockages of all types. Also, your

techniques are different from the ones that I am learning. So it

should be very interesting to read (and hopefully actually see) more

about your techniques - those that others - as time progresses.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me.

 

Regards,

Rich

[Guest guest]

Hi Richard, Simon, et al.

 

As an interesting aside, it was amusing to see the Chinese volleyball

athletes, during the Olympic games, with " round circles " , the

tell-tale sign of cupping, on their shoulders. :-) I really got a

kick out of seeing it on T.V..

 

Regards,

Rich

[Guest guest]

Hi Richard,

 

 

> Another protocol (some call it a secret) is to additionally use moxa

or TDP

> lamp after BaGuaFa or cupping or GuaSha. This also helps in the further

> dissipation.

 

I do something similar but instead of moxa, I would use " heat " from

qigong. First I remove stagnation using the GuaSha or Cupping, then I

would further remove " energetic stagnation " by first pulling out " cold

qi " using qigong and then possibily supplementing the area (i.e., jump

start movement) using " warm qigong " . I think it woudl be essentially

the same as using moxa. Any comments?

>

So BOTH local and distal was needed in this complex case.

 

This has certainly been my observations. As my teacher and Tom Tam

would concur with you, the " blockages " can be anywhere in the body and

they all must be unblocked in order for the energy and blood to be

flowing freely and in so doing " cleaning out " the body and

rejuvenating it.

 

I am most interested in your techniques so I am looking forward to

reading more about your experiences. Unfortuately you are correct,

there is very little experiential information available in English,

but hopefully seminars, such as the ones you are providing, will

become more readily available.

 

Regards,

Rich

[Guest guest]

At cupping I found the hue left behind a great indicator to what was

happening in the

underlying tissue and the organs in general.

 

Some findings which may interest folk:

 

pale purple - Cold, complicated with either Settled, to Incipient

Stagnation.

uniformly purple - Stagnation settled in

blotched purple - Stagnation in part with lack of Blood

blotched purple with red - Stagnation in part with Heat

blotched purple with yellow - Stagnation in LV and ST Oppressed

blotched purple with red papillae - Stagnation in LV about to become Fire

blackish hue - Settled Cold

black with red interspersed - Cold vying with Heat

 

Again, juxtaposing cups would tell an interesting story:

 

on DU 14, red - on DU 5, pale

[Cold below and Heat above, a no-brainer - look at a mediator segment at

midpoint of

DU segment from DU 2 to 14, one would find it more or less at DU 7,

with Shu for BL on either side]

 

Post cupping rarely left a yellow or green, mainly black, purple and red.

 

Most painful areas on cupping were the SI line at lateral scapular margin,

and

the gluteal area on GB.

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - 15 CEUS by video.

NCCAOM reviewed. Approved in CA & most states.