Jump to content
IndiaDivine.org
Sign in to follow this  
Guest guest

depression

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Guest guest

Clarifiction:<<<black pepper mixed with peppermint essential

oil is very up-lifting too, just to smell-do not ingest-but I can't find

it (blk pepper) anywhere.>>>>

 

This is black pepper essential oil - not ground black pepper! Sorry,

Gaye

 

 

Cheerfulness and contentment are great beautifiers and are famous

preservers of youthful looks.

~Charles Dickens~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

I was kind of wondering about that part about Both having symptoms too?

 

Has this been ongoing for sometime? did you both start having these feelings at the same time?

 

Has something happened in both your lives recently such as loss of a loved one or other similar stress? How about diet? Do you both drink coffee, sugar, etc.

 

I have just recently read about B vitamins and how they affect your moods.

You can try some tea of St Johns Wort (you do have to be careful of sun exposure though).

 

Other oils to try for Aromatherapy are Patchouly, and orange blossom. Both are strong but a little dab here and there can difinitely lift the spirits.

 

:o) Sylviagayekyc1 wrote:

Geez, this sounds like my episodes with PMS...Maybe it is a hormoneimbalance. I take Evening Primrose for mine....but get some more advicetoo....with both of you having these symptoms, sounds like it could besomething else...You need something that is "uplifting"...2 or 3 dropsof lemon, pine, rosemary essential oil in a few ounces of distilledwater, put it in a spray bottle, & spritz it around the house...Add acouple drops to your bath, Put a few drops on a hankerchief & keep itwith you. I've heard that black pepper mixed with peppermint essentialoil is very up-lifting too, just to smell-do not ingest-but I can't findit (blk pepper) anywhere. Good luck, GayeCheerfulness and contentment are great beautifiers and are famouspreservers of youthful looks.~Charles Dickens~

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

wow. i'm sorry. it seems like you are both going through quite a

bit. ironically the foods one often reaches to for their convenience

and as " comfort " often make the situation worse. if you are eating a

lot of sugars, refined foods and carbs i would really suggest taking

a look at your diet and trying to switch to fresh, raw when possible

and organic when possible (lots of fruits and veggies). it seems

like you both have a lot of stress to deal with as well. exercise

can really help to deal with stress...especially a type of exercise

that involves relaxation or meditation...i would strongly suggest

that you do yoga together (a lot of times it's hard to find time or

$$ for a class but you could start out doing a video together) this

way it's also giving you a way to deal with things together that is

not purley " trading episodes " as you said you seem to fall into. i'm

sure there are tons of herbs that could help lift your spirits...but

as with everything it seems important to get at the cause of the

depression and i think diet and exercise could be a good way to

go...people living together often have the same diet and

lifestyle...so it's not too surprising that you are having similar

symptoms. also don't discount the fact that you both have " stuff "

going on...be sure to communicate with each other and give yourself

time to adjust to all of the changes you have to deal with. sorry

for the novel!! be well.

luv laura

 

 

 

herbal remedies , Sugar <sugarfatz> wrote:

>

> Note: forwarded message attached.

>

>

> =====

> " Either Marinate or Elevate "

>

>

>

> SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

> http://sbc.

> For me, it's build up, school, taking care of my

> gfather (80yrs old), finding time to study (properly),

> working and trying to still have a life. I've just

> been staying afloat. It's been a lot going on for me,

> and all of them needed and (got) my attention at the

> same time, nothing cld be put on hold or dealt with

> later. In addition I still had to do other things,

> bills, grocery store. For 3mths I was paying

> everything buy myself due to loss of income on his

> part. It got built up, it was just too much.

>

> His - it seems to also be built up, but he thinks,

> it's from years of things and most recent, loss of

> income as well. He suppressed a lot of things, never

> talked and now they are surfacing.

>

> I find it strange too, that we both are going through

> something like this at the same time. We are trying

> to be each others support, but heck, it seems as if

> we're just transferring episodes.

>

> Thanks!

> Sugar

> --- Sylvia <h10feet> wrote:

> > I was kind of wondering about that part about Both

> > having symptoms too?

> >

> > Has this been ongoing for sometime? did you both

> > start having these feelings at the same time?

> >

> > Has something happened in both your lives recently

> > such as loss of a loved one or other similar stress?

> > How about diet? Do you both drink coffee, sugar,

> > etc.

> >

> > I have just recently read about B vitamins and how

> > they affect your moods.

> > You can try some tea of St Johns Wort (you do have

> > to be careful of sun exposure though).

> >

> > Other oils to try for Aromatherapy are Patchouly,

> > and orange blossom. Both are strong but a little dab

> > here and there can difinitely lift the spirits.

> >

> > :o) Sylvia

> >

> > gayekyc1@w... wrote:

> > Geez, this sounds like my episodes with PMS...Maybe

> > it is a hormone

> > imbalance. I take Evening Primrose for mine....but

> > get some more advice

> > too....with both of you having these symptoms,

> > sounds like it could be

> > something else...You need something that is

> > " uplifting " ...2 or 3 drops

> > of lemon, pine, rosemary essential oil in a few

> > ounces of distilled

> > water, put it in a spray bottle, & spritz it around

> > the house...Add a

> > couple drops to your bath, Put a few drops on a

> > hankerchief & keep it

> > with you. I've heard that black pepper mixed with

> > peppermint essential

> > oil is very up-lifting too, just to smell-do not

> > ingest-but I can't find

> > it (blk pepper) anywhere. Good luck, Gaye

> >

> >

> > Cheerfulness and contentment are great beautifiers

> > and are famous

> > preservers of youthful looks.

> > ~Charles Dickens~

> >

> >

> >

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Hi Sugar,

 

Doc's Total Nutrition basically saved me in the last few months when I was going through a separation from my husband. It handled my depression so I could start dealing with it and help my 5-year-old also.

 

I ran out last week, and while waiting for a new shipment I can feel the tiredness coming back, and lethargy/lack of interest (my separation is not yet completed!)

 

So it definitely makes a big difference.

 

But yes, of course the cause does need to be located also, otherwise you're just putting a bandaid on your depression without actually handling it.

 

love,

Lisa

 

-

Sugar

Herbal Remedies

Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:39 PM

[herbal remedies] Depression

Hello Everyone:Can anyone recommend an herb or herbs to treatdepression? I'm experiencing:crying for no reasonallowing past issues, live in the present. basicallyallowing things I used to have control over or thght Iwas over flare up as if it just happened.loss of interest - not wanting to do things I need todo. However it isn't the same for things I like todo. If it's something fun, I'll do it, but if it'scleaning the house and other things, like foldingclothes, etc I don't want to do it.Unfortunately, my boyfriend is having episodes too(crying for no reason, loss of interest)Thanks!Sugar====="Either Marinate or Elevate"SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!http://sbc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

I don't think this is strange at all...Even small leaks in a stove or

heater can cause problems...and like the carbon monoxide it is rarely

noticed. Just a slight smell, like something rotting, a pest smell (like

rats) or a sour smell. But most people get headaches from just a gas

leak. Smart thinking on your part. I wouldn't have thought about it-or

at least it wouldn't have been the first thing to come to mind. Gaye

 

 

Cheerfulness and contentment are great beautifiers and are famous

preservers of youthful looks.

~Charles Dickens~

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This may sound strange, but since you and your boyfriend are both having symptoms it is worth a shot. Do you have any gas or propane appliances in your home? It is quite possible that you are suffering from carbon monoxide poisoning. Depression and lethargy are both common symptoms of this. It wouldn't hurt to have it checked out.

 

Blessed Be!

MtMoonKitty

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

__ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here

 

 

 

Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following:

1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.

2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy.

3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and to

prescribe for your own health.

We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as

they behave themselves.

Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person

following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk.

It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to

be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability.

 

Dr. Ian Shillington

Doctor of Naturopathy

Dr.IanShillington

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

actually gaye, the section of one of my many herb and natural healing books was talking baout how the LACK of b vit's affect mood, and suggest b supplements.

 

? Sylviagayekyc1 wrote:

Sylvia, ooops, hit send accidentally...<<snip-B vitamins and how they affect your moods-snip>>This last month I just got back on my B's.. & it was the worst PMS I havehad in awhile. One minute I wanted to cry the next I wanted to punchsomeone :o... (or something) Could this have been the problem??Thanks, GayeCheerfulness and contentment are great beautifiers and are famouspreservers of youthful looks.~Charles Dickens~Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and

members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Sylvia,

 

My Mother & son have the same identical symptoms-with milk, cheese &

milk " by-products " ...lactose, whey, etc. check & see if anything in

them, or something else you eat might be causing this. So many things

get added to stuff like bread that is in concentrated form like whey, &

other unusual names for other milk by-product concentrates, you have to

really be careful. Even some seemingly good whole grain products have

this sort of thing. Good Luck, Gaye

 

 

Cheerfulness and contentment are great beautifiers and are famous

preservers of youthful looks.

~Charles Dickens~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Sylvia,

Have you checked out the "Total Nutrition" in the files.... might be a good substitute...

SuziSylvia <h10feet wrote:

 

 

I myself hate taking any B or b-complex stuff. Hubby argues with my about this constantly! But they make me queasy and almost everytime i have to go to the bathroom within a half hour (cramps and icky's).

 

This does not happen with my morning round of supplements only when i do my afternoon ones when he includes a B. so who knows?

Sylvia

gayekyc1 wrote:

Sylvia,Maybe the B's hadn't had time to get back in my system before the PMS started...And other things may have contributed to this, like stress...But, I have been faithfully taking the B's since, so we'll see if it has some good effects. I do know that cutting down on caffeine & taking Vit. E had excellant benefits, when I first began about 6 years ago...Thanks, Gaye Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Sylvia, They sell cheese that is lactose free at our local health food

store, maybe you can find some in your area...I'm sure the organic is

wonderful, but it still has real milk.

 

I'm thinking too---- that goat milk & goat milk cheese may be more

digestible than than cow's milk & cheese...I know goat's milk has a

smaller curd & you assimilate the nutrients more efficiently. So maybe

it is easier on your digestion. And might not cause these other problems

you mentioned...wouldn't hurt to try it, huh?? Gaye

 

 

Cheerfulness and contentment are great beautifiers and are famous

preservers of youthful looks.

~Charles Dickens~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Well, I'm going to jump on the Vit B bandwagon. I am very susceptible to

depression and huge mood swings when I'm pms'ing. My only salvation is Vit

B100. I don't have any problems taking it unless on an empty stomach. But

really, with out it, I'm in tears or biting someone's head off (usually

people I love). That's not the type of person I want to be so I swear by

this wonderful vitamin!!! I have tried other women's vitamin combinations

but none of them seem to work as well as straight up B100.

 

An interesting B vit addition: I recently read that morning sickness is a

side effect of a B6 deficiency. So I upped my B6 consumption. I didn't see

any difference... It was an interesting experiment. Any one else ever hear

this and try it?

 

I really hope you can overcome this depression. You've made a great step in

climbing above it in asking for help. In my own miner way, I know how

depiliating depression can be. You'll be in my thoughts and prayers.

 

:) jessica

 

_______________

The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*

http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Sylvia, Why...I Neeeever have that problem (overindulgence). LOL.

 

Let me give you a quick recipe that is soooo good (and healthy without

the bread). Can't remember the name of it.

 

Use all organic of course....

You can just omit the bread & make a salad out of this..

•French bread-is there a substitute somebody? sliced diagonal

crosswise

•Diced tomatoes

•crumbled feta (goat cheese) (the kind that has peppers in it, I

always forget the name of it)

•cold-pressed extra virgin olive oil

•fresh basil-julianned

•fresh cilantro-julianned

•sliced black olives

•fresh chives or green onions-sliced

•cayenne peppers-diced small (wear gloves)

Slightly toast bread or substitute, pile all the ingredients, except

oil, on bread (or substitute) (or layer in glass bakeware without bread)

Drizzle olive oil over all.

Broil till cheese is softened & slightly bubbling, let cool just a

tad...indulge...

 

Gaye

 

 

Cheerfulness and contentment are great beautifiers and are famous

preservers of youthful looks.

~Charles Dickens~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Elif,26 year old female from Turkey, writes: << I have gone through three big

depressions ...>>

 

Hi Elif from Minnesota USA, a state that borders Canada.

 

I can suggest several ideas. You can see if you like any of them. Significant

help is available using a technique known as EFT. EFT stands for emotional

freedom technique. You can find out about EFT at Gary Craig's site:

<A HREF= " http://www.emofree.com/ " >EFT - Gary Craig</A>

At his site he has lots of real life stories about how EFT has helped people

with many different challenges. He also has a free, downloadable manual there.

There's also a listing of people who are ready and willing to help others

using EFT.

 

One story you would probably find encouraging is at:

<A

HREF= " http://www.emofree.com/cases/suicidal.htm " >http://www.emofree.com/cases/su\

icidal.htm</A>

The fact that the above story is about someone getting significant help over

the phone should expand your options.

 

There's also an EFT forum where you can ask questions about EFT:

<A HREF= " EmotionalFreedomTechniques " >EFT

groups home page</A>

 

Diet is also a factor in a person's mental outlook. To the extent that your

diet is similar to the American Diet, it's SAD. SAD = Standard American Diet.

Minimizing refined sugars and grains in a diet will help you feel better

mentally and physically. Also artificial sugars like Nutrasweet are BAD news in

the

opinion of many people. If you'd like to research that yourself you could do a

search on some words like nutrasweet danger toxic " side effects " . Or you

could just visit a site like:

<A

HREF= " http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/ " >http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartam\

e/</A>

 

Finally, supplements such as essential fatty acids and B complex can help.

 

I'm not a health professional. Instead I'm just a citizen who has sought to

learn about natural health methods for the last two decades. I wish you well on

your journey to happiness.

 

Rich Putman

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Dear Pete:

 

Interesting case. Wondering how she has clots in her menses after a

hysterectomy. Any ideas?

 

Guy

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Setting up the Design by my Deep Diagnosis by Design System, staying only

with

the initial history:

 

[Today's patient is a 49 year old female suffering from depression.]

Wood Subdued as the primary impression.

 

[she has a history of alcohol abuse but is not currently drinking, joined AA

18

years ago and has been sober since then.]

Wood Afflited. Primary impression reinforced.

 

[she had a hysterectomy at age 41....]

SP Oppressed by Disturbed Wood.

 

Provisional Design elements - Wood Offending Earth.

 

[... and malignant melanoma removed at about the same time.]

Metal Dry.

 

Provisional Design refined - Wood Offending Earth, Impoverished Metal.

 

[she separated her shoulder at age 47, this healed normally.]

Again Wood, separation mainly a tendinous affair. Healed, because Wood qi

still in place, a good sign.

 

Provisional Design refined further - Wood Offending Earth, Impoverished

Metal,

Wood qi in good stead.

 

[she was hospitalized for suicidal thoughts in 1997.]

Aggrieved Wood backing in Water, which oculd be Dried, more so Sunken.

 

Provisional Design - Wood Offending Earth, Impoverished Metal, some Backing

Up in Water.

 

Discussion:

Though rare, it seems a Wood primary element in trouble. Very predictably

Erath was

afflicted, givind the SP dysfunction which led to a somewhat premature

hysterectomy.

 

Over time, Wood Stagnated, and occasionally on Fire, backed up into Water,

which

in turn, went into suicidal mode.

 

Could this be a Metal primary instead? Not really, the Melanoma would not

have

in so belatedly.

 

What next?

 

Confirm Wood as primary any way you can, toungue, pulse, chronolgy, 8

parameters,

ear signs, tender points, channel palpation, shu-testing, hand KHT points,

hand and

foot Su Jok points, reflexology.

 

More after feedback.

 

PS. Any fissures on tongue?

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health

professionals

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Hi Guy!

 

Understand that this is from her medical *history*. When she was

menstruating, she had clots. I went to a *very* classical school of TCM.

 

At 07:48 AM 2/23/2004, you wrote:

>Dear Pete:

>

>Interesting case. Wondering how she has clots in her menses after a

>hysterectomy. Any ideas?

>

>Guy

>

>

>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Hi Dr. K!

 

No fissures on tongue. I will look at wood. She is coming in today for a

treatment.

 

At 11:12 AM 2/23/2004, you wrote:

>Setting up the Design by my Deep Diagnosis by Design System, staying only

>with

>the initial history:

>

>[Today's patient is a 49 year old female suffering from depression.]

>Wood Subdued as the primary impression.

>

>[she has a history of alcohol abuse but is not currently drinking, joined AA

>18

>years ago and has been sober since then.]

>Wood Afflited. Primary impression reinforced.

>

>[she had a hysterectomy at age 41....]

>SP Oppressed by Disturbed Wood.

>

>Provisional Design elements - Wood Offending Earth.

>

>[... and malignant melanoma removed at about the same time.]

>Metal Dry.

>

>Provisional Design refined - Wood Offending Earth, Impoverished Metal.

>

>[she separated her shoulder at age 47, this healed normally.]

>Again Wood, separation mainly a tendinous affair. Healed, because Wood qi

>still in place, a good sign.

>

>Provisional Design refined further - Wood Offending Earth, Impoverished

>Metal,

>Wood qi in good stead.

>

>[she was hospitalized for suicidal thoughts in 1997.]

>Aggrieved Wood backing in Water, which oculd be Dried, more so Sunken.

>

>Provisional Design - Wood Offending Earth, Impoverished Metal, some Backing

>Up in Water.

>

>Discussion:

>Though rare, it seems a Wood primary element in trouble. Very predictably

>Erath was

>afflicted, givind the SP dysfunction which led to a somewhat premature

>hysterectomy.

>

>Over time, Wood Stagnated, and occasionally on Fire, backed up into Water,

>which

>in turn, went into suicidal mode.

>

>Could this be a Metal primary instead? Not really, the Melanoma would not

>have

>in so belatedly.

>

>What next?

>

>Confirm Wood as primary any way you can, toungue, pulse, chronolgy, 8

>parameters,

>ear signs, tender points, channel palpation, shu-testing, hand KHT points,

>hand and

>foot Su Jok points, reflexology.

>

>More after feedback.

>

>PS. Any fissures on tongue?

>

>Dr. Holmes Keikobad

>MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

>www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health

>professionals

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious,

>spam messages,flame another member or swear.

>

>To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none,

>visit the groups' homepage:

>Chinese Medicine/ click 'edit my

>membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly.

>

>To send an email to

><Chinese Medicine- > from the email

>account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still

>recieve messages for a few days.

>

>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Pete Theisen:

[Hi Dr. K!

 

No fissures on tongue. I will look at wood. She is coming in today for a

treatment.]

 

Then Wood is more or less borne out. And in spite of her history, she is in

good shape.

 

Time to preclude!

 

She will bring in a tongue with lateral crenellations, well marked, with

occasional blotches

which may be purple, Wood, or brown, Heat, or downright black, an aggravated

Heat.

 

Color at this stage ought to be tending to reddish, if not markedly red.

Coat should be denuded in ST pattern, and under-tongue veins scanty or

absent.

Tongue ought to Spleenish with Wetness, flabby with teethmarks.

 

Pulse ought to show bilateral Full guans, with R cun Feeble, Weak.

 

If both guans are Wiry, which I doubt, the illness is still patent and needs

reversal. If simply

Full, and Empty, Wood needs Blood and Yin, which is the same thing.

 

She could have flank pains, other lateral illnesses like migraine, scotoma

before

the eyes.

 

Palpating GB channel will give pleasant surprises. Look for GB 39

tenderness, in addition

to myriad tender points on this channel.

 

If Wood is confirmed, the last thing to do is treat it directly.

 

Looking for more input.

 

At 11:12 AM 2/23/2004, you wrote:

>Setting up the Design by my Deep Diagnosis by Design System, staying only

>with

>the initial history:

>

>[Today's patient is a 49 year old female suffering from depression.]

>Wood Subdued as the primary impression.

>

>[she has a history of alcohol abuse but is not currently drinking, joined

AA

>18

>years ago and has been sober since then.]

>Wood Afflited. Primary impression reinforced.

>

>[she had a hysterectomy at age 41....]

>SP Oppressed by Disturbed Wood.

>

>Provisional Design elements - Wood Offending Earth.

>

>[... and malignant melanoma removed at about the same time.]

>Metal Dry.

>

>Provisional Design refined - Wood Offending Earth, Impoverished Metal.

>

>[she separated her shoulder at age 47, this healed normally.]

>Again Wood, separation mainly a tendinous affair. Healed, because Wood qi

>still in place, a good sign.

>

>Provisional Design refined further - Wood Offending Earth, Impoverished

>Metal,

>Wood qi in good stead.

>

>[she was hospitalized for suicidal thoughts in 1997.]

>Aggrieved Wood backing in Water, which oculd be Dried, more so Sunken.

>

>Provisional Design - Wood Offending Earth, Impoverished Metal, some Backing

>Up in Water.

>

>Discussion:

>Though rare, it seems a Wood primary element in trouble. Very predictably

>Erath was

>afflicted, givind the SP dysfunction which led to a somewhat premature

>hysterectomy.

>

>Over time, Wood Stagnated, and occasionally on Fire, backed up into Water,

>which

>in turn, went into suicidal mode.

>

>Could this be a Metal primary instead? Not really, the Melanoma would not

>have

>in so belatedly.

>

>What next?

>

>Confirm Wood as primary any way you can, toungue, pulse, chronolgy, 8

>parameters,

>ear signs, tender points, channel palpation, shu-testing, hand KHT points,

>hand and

>foot Su Jok points, reflexology.

>

>More after feedback.

>

>PS. Any fissures on tongue?

>

>Dr. Holmes Keikobad

>MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

>www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health

>professionals

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious,

>spam messages,flame another member or swear.

>

>To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none,

>visit the groups' homepage:

>Chinese Medicine/ click 'edit my

>membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly.

>

>To send an email to

><Chinese Medicine- > from the email

>account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still

>recieve messages for a few days.

>

>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Hi Dr. K!

 

Thanks for your input.

 

I didn't notice any lateral crenellations or blotches, just kind of pink

material with thin white coating. She said the treatment put her into

another dimension, which I took as good.

 

Next time I will check out the rest of this.

 

At 10:38 AM 2/24/2004, you wrote:

>Pete Theisen:

>[Hi Dr. K!

>

>No fissures on tongue. I will look at wood. She is coming in today for a

>treatment.]

>

>Then Wood is more or less borne out. And in spite of her history, she is in

>good shape.

>

>Time to preclude!

>

>She will bring in a tongue with lateral crenellations, well marked, with

>occasional blotches

>which may be purple, Wood, or brown, Heat, or downright black, an aggravated

>Heat.

>

>Color at this stage ought to be tending to reddish, if not markedly red.

>Coat should be denuded in ST pattern, and under-tongue veins scanty or

>absent.

>Tongue ought to Spleenish with Wetness, flabby with teethmarks.

>

>Pulse ought to show bilateral Full guans, with R cun Feeble, Weak.

>

>If both guans are Wiry, which I doubt, the illness is still patent and needs

>reversal. If simply

>Full, and Empty, Wood needs Blood and Yin, which is the same thing.

>

>She could have flank pains, other lateral illnesses like migraine, scotoma

>before

>the eyes.

>

>Palpating GB channel will give pleasant surprises. Look for GB 39

>tenderness, in addition

>to myriad tender points on this channel.

>

>If Wood is confirmed, the last thing to do is treat it directly.

>

>Looking for more input.

>

>At 11:12 AM 2/23/2004, you wrote:

> >Setting up the Design by my Deep Diagnosis by Design System, staying only

> >with

> >the initial history:

> >

> >[Today's patient is a 49 year old female suffering from depression.]

> >Wood Subdued as the primary impression.

> >

> >[she has a history of alcohol abuse but is not currently drinking, joined

>AA

> >18

> >years ago and has been sober since then.]

> >Wood Afflited. Primary impression reinforced.

> >

> >[she had a hysterectomy at age 41....]

> >SP Oppressed by Disturbed Wood.

> >

> >Provisional Design elements - Wood Offending Earth.

> >

> >[... and malignant melanoma removed at about the same time.]

> >Metal Dry.

> >

> >Provisional Design refined - Wood Offending Earth, Impoverished Metal.

> >

> >[she separated her shoulder at age 47, this healed normally.]

> >Again Wood, separation mainly a tendinous affair. Healed, because Wood qi

> >still in place, a good sign.

> >

> >Provisional Design refined further - Wood Offending Earth, Impoverished

> >Metal,

> >Wood qi in good stead.

> >

> >[she was hospitalized for suicidal thoughts in 1997.]

> >Aggrieved Wood backing in Water, which oculd be Dried, more so Sunken.

> >

> >Provisional Design - Wood Offending Earth, Impoverished Metal, some Backing

> >Up in Water.

> >

> >Discussion:

> >Though rare, it seems a Wood primary element in trouble. Very predictably

> >Erath was

> >afflicted, givind the SP dysfunction which led to a somewhat premature

> >hysterectomy.

> >

> >Over time, Wood Stagnated, and occasionally on Fire, backed up into Water,

> >which

> >in turn, went into suicidal mode.

> >

> >Could this be a Metal primary instead? Not really, the Melanoma would not

> >have

> >in so belatedly.

> >

> >What next?

> >

> >Confirm Wood as primary any way you can, toungue, pulse, chronolgy, 8

> >parameters,

> >ear signs, tender points, channel palpation, shu-testing, hand KHT points,

> >hand and

> >foot Su Jok points, reflexology.

> >

> >More after feedback.

> >

> >PS. Any fissures on tongue?

> >

> >Dr. Holmes Keikobad

> >MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

> >www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health

> >professionals

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious,

> >spam messages,flame another member or swear.

> >

> >To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none,

> >visit the groups' homepage:

> >Chinese Medicine/ click 'edit my

> >membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly.

> >

> >To send an email to

> ><Chinese Medicine- > from the email

> >account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still

> >recieve messages for a few days.

> >

> >

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Shame you never included a date of birth :(

salvador

 

>

>Hi Everybody!

>

>Today's patient is a 49 year old female suffering from depression. She has

>a history of alcohol abuse but is not currently drinking, joined AA 18

>years ago and has been sober since then. She had a hysterectomy at age 41

>and malignant melanoma removed at about the same time. She separated her

>shoulder at age 47, this healed normally. She is currently taking Celexa

>but she would like to use TCM to control her depression instead. She was

>hospitalized for suicidal thoughts in 1997.

>

>The following is my report, your comments are invited.

>

>Patient number: 219041810

>

>Observe:

>

>Small movement, continuous fidgeting especially of the legs. Yes.

>(deficient heat in the kidneys)

>Dry lifeless color indicates exhausted Stomach-Qi)

>Green face color (indicates a Liver pattern, interior Cold, pain or

>interior Wind) Yes.

>Broad, square shoulders, slow and deliberate, strong build, triangular

>face, " Metal Type " . Yes.

>Fat body. Yes

>crack at the front of the earlobe is heart.

>Observe the lips. Dry.

>Tongue color. Pink.

>Tongue shape. Wide.

>Tongue coating. Slight white.

>Tongue moisture. Dry.

>

>Inquire:

>

>Gradual onset of headache. Yes.

>Character of the headache pain: Dull.

>Condition of the patient while having the headache. Annoyed.

>Pain that is relieved by touch or pressure. Yes. (deficient)

>Incomplete urination, dribbling or lack of force. Yes.

>Undigested food in the stool. Yes. Especially corn.

>Purple or blackish menstrual blood. Sometimes.

>Congealed menses with clots. Yes.

>Taking contraceptive pills. Yes. For two years age 19 and 20.

>White leucorrhea. Yes. Years ago.

>Change in sinews, such as weak or stiff. Yes.

>Throws off the blanket at night. Yes. (excess heat maybe liver or heart)

>

>Listen & smell:

>

>Frequent laughter without reason. Yes. (fire imbalance)

>Crying. Yes. (related to metal, lung deficiency)

>

>Palpate:

>

>Systolic blood pressure (Optimal <120; 98

>Diastolic blood pressure (Optimal <80; 72

>Heart rate. 65

>Slow pulse less than 70 beats per minute. Yes. (cold or insufficient qi)

>Hidden pulse is an extreme form of the sinking pulse. Yes. (Deficient Yang

>if weak)

>Dry skin. Yes. (deficiency of liver blood)

>

>Summary of patterns:

>

>deficient heat in the kidneys

>exhausted Stomach-Qi

>Liver pattern, interior Cold, pain or interior Wind

>Metal Type

>Fat body. Central Obesity.

>crack at the front of the earlobe is heart.

>deficient

>excess heat maybe liver or heart

>fire imbalance

>related to metal, lung deficiency

>cold or insufficient qi

>Deficient Yang if weak

>deficiency of liver blood

>

>Organs/Meridians: Kidney, Stomach, Liver, Heart, Lung.

>

>

>Treatment principles/points:

>Consolidate Kidney, Reinforce Qi. Du 4; Ki 3, 12; Ren 3, 4, 6; Sp 6; UB

>22, 23, 28, 39.

>Strengthen Stomach Qi, Invigorate Spleen. Ren 6, 12; Sp 6; St 21, 36; UB

>20, 21.

>Nourish Blood, Subdue Wind. Du 14, 16, 20, 26; Lv 3, 8; Ren 4; Sp 6; St 36;

>UB 17, 18, 20.

>Reinforce and strengthen Heart Qi. Ht 7, P 6; Ren 6, 14, 17; St 36; UB 15.

>Reinforce Lungs, Strengthen Qi, Restore the descending function of Lung Qi.

>Lu 7, 9; Ren 6, 17; St 36; UB 13,43.

>

>Regards,

>

>

>Pete

>

 

_______________

Express yourself with cool emoticons - download MSN Messenger today!

http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Hi Salvador!

 

This date of birth thing is completely outside of my training, I don't

understand it - even *after* I read your website <g> June 21, 1954 for this

patient.

 

At 04:10 PM 2/29/2004, you wrote:

>Shame you never included a date of birth :(

>salvador

>

> >

> >Hi Everybody!

> >

> >Today's patient is a 49 year old female suffering from depression. She has

> >a history of alcohol abuse but is not currently drinking, joined AA 18

> >years ago and has been sober since then. She had a hysterectomy at age 41

> >and malignant melanoma removed at about the same time. She separated her

> >shoulder at age 47, this healed normally. She is currently taking Celexa

> >but she would like to use TCM to control her depression instead. She was

> >hospitalized for suicidal thoughts in 1997.

> >

> >The following is my report, your comments are invited.

> >

> >Patient number: 219041810

> >

> >Observe:

> >

> >Small movement, continuous fidgeting especially of the legs. Yes.

> >(deficient heat in the kidneys)

> >Dry lifeless color indicates exhausted Stomach-Qi)

> >Green face color (indicates a Liver pattern, interior Cold, pain or

> >interior Wind) Yes.

> >Broad, square shoulders, slow and deliberate, strong build, triangular

> >face, " Metal Type " . Yes.

> >Fat body. Yes

> >crack at the front of the earlobe is heart.

> >Observe the lips. Dry.

> >Tongue color. Pink.

> >Tongue shape. Wide.

> >Tongue coating. Slight white.

> >Tongue moisture. Dry.

> >

> >Inquire:

> >

> >Gradual onset of headache. Yes.

> >Character of the headache pain: Dull.

> >Condition of the patient while having the headache. Annoyed.

> >Pain that is relieved by touch or pressure. Yes. (deficient)

> >Incomplete urination, dribbling or lack of force. Yes.

> >Undigested food in the stool. Yes. Especially corn.

> >Purple or blackish menstrual blood. Sometimes.

> >Congealed menses with clots. Yes.

> >Taking contraceptive pills. Yes. For two years age 19 and 20.

> >White leucorrhea. Yes. Years ago.

> >Change in sinews, such as weak or stiff. Yes.

> >Throws off the blanket at night. Yes. (excess heat maybe liver or heart)

> >

> >Listen & smell:

> >

> >Frequent laughter without reason. Yes. (fire imbalance)

> >Crying. Yes. (related to metal, lung deficiency)

> >

> >Palpate:

> >

> >Systolic blood pressure (Optimal <120; 98

> >Diastolic blood pressure (Optimal <80; 72

> >Heart rate. 65

> >Slow pulse less than 70 beats per minute. Yes. (cold or insufficient qi)

> >Hidden pulse is an extreme form of the sinking pulse. Yes. (Deficient Yang

> >if weak)

> >Dry skin. Yes. (deficiency of liver blood)

> >

> >Summary of patterns:

> >

> >deficient heat in the kidneys

> >exhausted Stomach-Qi

> >Liver pattern, interior Cold, pain or interior Wind

> >Metal Type

> >Fat body. Central Obesity.

> >crack at the front of the earlobe is heart.

> >deficient

> >excess heat maybe liver or heart

> >fire imbalance

> >related to metal, lung deficiency

> >cold or insufficient qi

> >Deficient Yang if weak

> >deficiency of liver blood

> >

> >Organs/Meridians: Kidney, Stomach, Liver, Heart, Lung.

> >

> >

> >Treatment principles/points:

> >Consolidate Kidney, Reinforce Qi. Du 4; Ki 3, 12; Ren 3, 4, 6; Sp 6; UB

> >22, 23, 28, 39.

> >Strengthen Stomach Qi, Invigorate Spleen. Ren 6, 12; Sp 6; St 21, 36; UB

> >20, 21.

> >Nourish Blood, Subdue Wind. Du 14, 16, 20, 26; Lv 3, 8; Ren 4; Sp 6; St 36;

> >UB 17, 18, 20.

> >Reinforce and strengthen Heart Qi. Ht 7, P 6; Ren 6, 14, 17; St 36; UB 15.

> >Reinforce Lungs, Strengthen Qi, Restore the descending function of Lung Qi.

> >Lu 7, 9; Ren 6, 17; St 36; UB 13,43.

> >

> >Regards,

> >

> >

> >Pete<snip>

 

Regards,

 

Pete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Pete wrote,

 

Hi Salvador!

 

This date of birth thing is completely outside of my training, I don't

understand it - even *after* I read your website <g> June 21, 1954 for this

patient.

 

 

>Shame you never included a date of birth :(

 

_________-

Hi Pete,

I am sorry you are struggling with understanding the info i have provided. I

am not surprised it is outside of your training, It is my invention and

observation based on years of making mistakes and noticing what really

worked.

 

However, is this reason to give up? what about the info I gave you with

regards to 2 patients? were you willing to experiment with my sugestions?

 

The difficulty with my way of treating is that it is not compatible with

sticking needles where ever your ideas or posible theoretical frameworks

might take you.

For me a patient is like a pond,when they first turn up all their symptoms

are a clear showing of what is really going on . As soon as we insert a

needle we are already moving in the bottom of the pond. Unless we place

needles in the right places the bottom of the pond gets unsettled and it

gets harder to know where to look at in subsequent visits.

 

now with this new patient you have already been advised to do all maner of

points and I know from her D.O.B. that if you have followed them all you are

none the wiser. why? because what ever is going on is between the KID / BL,

GB, and SP.

 

You are very good at catalogin symptoms ,so as an excercise. How about

catalogin all possible symptoms with this patient to fit the KID / BL, GB,

and SP?. I suggest The way to do this is to actively ask your patient to

corroborate symptoms according to the meridian.

 

for example The patient has undigested stools this is likely to come from

the SP so you ask. what about appetite? what about feeling heavy? Here you

need to be clear there are difeent forms of feeling heavy, such as the

lympathic system not clearing lactic acid or physical exaustion or emotional

supression. What about thoughts? is this person a worrier? how about

stools?etc.

 

You do the same for all the other meridians that I have given you and you

will come up with a picture, my guess is Excess GB and Def. SP but you make

your own guess. Having guessed you then have to prove the truth. this

requires inserting needles.

 

 

It is my premise that the majority of illnesses originate in emotional

suppresion affecting the muscular structures of the body which in turn

affect the organ / hormonal glands. If this is true, then whenever I insert

an appropriate needle into a person. IF he is to feel better then those

structures must relax. The person will feel calmer, looser, more grounded

and at times more agile. Was it you who once mentioned the patient felt like

on another planet after a treatment? if so, that is not the place we are

after :)

 

Salvador

 

 

--\

-------------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>salvador

>

> >

> >Hi Everybody!

> >

> >Today's patient is a 49 year old female suffering from depression. She

>has

> >a history of alcohol abuse but is not currently drinking, joined AA 18

> >years ago and has been sober since then. She had a hysterectomy at age 41

> >and malignant melanoma removed at about the same time. She separated her

> >shoulder at age 47, this healed normally. She is currently taking Celexa

> >but she would like to use TCM to control her depression instead. She was

> >hospitalized for suicidal thoughts in 1997.

> >

> >The following is my report, your comments are invited.

> >

> >Patient number: 219041810

> >

> >Observe:

> >

> >Small movement, continuous fidgeting especially of the legs. Yes.

> >(deficient heat in the kidneys)

> >Dry lifeless color indicates exhausted Stomach-Qi)

> >Green face color (indicates a Liver pattern, interior Cold, pain or

> >interior Wind) Yes.

> >Broad, square shoulders, slow and deliberate, strong build, triangular

> >face, " Metal Type " . Yes.

> >Fat body. Yes

> >crack at the front of the earlobe is heart.

> >Observe the lips. Dry.

> >Tongue color. Pink.

> >Tongue shape. Wide.

> >Tongue coating. Slight white.

> >Tongue moisture. Dry.

> >

> >Inquire:

> >

> >Gradual onset of headache. Yes.

> >Character of the headache pain: Dull.

> >Condition of the patient while having the headache. Annoyed.

> >Pain that is relieved by touch or pressure. Yes. (deficient)

> >Incomplete urination, dribbling or lack of force. Yes.

> >Undigested food in the stool. Yes. Especially corn.

> >Purple or blackish menstrual blood. Sometimes.

> >Congealed menses with clots. Yes.

> >Taking contraceptive pills. Yes. For two years age 19 and 20.

> >White leucorrhea. Yes. Years ago.

> >Change in sinews, such as weak or stiff. Yes.

> >Throws off the blanket at night. Yes. (excess heat maybe liver or heart)

> >

> >Listen & smell:

> >

> >Frequent laughter without reason. Yes. (fire imbalance)

> >Crying. Yes. (related to metal, lung deficiency)

> >

> >Palpate:

> >

> >Systolic blood pressure (Optimal <120; 98

> >Diastolic blood pressure (Optimal <80; 72

> >Heart rate. 65

> >Slow pulse less than 70 beats per minute. Yes. (cold or insufficient qi)

> >Hidden pulse is an extreme form of the sinking pulse. Yes. (Deficient

>Yang

> >if weak)

> >Dry skin. Yes. (deficiency of liver blood)

> >

> >Summary of patterns:

> >

> >deficient heat in the kidneys

> >exhausted Stomach-Qi

> >Liver pattern, interior Cold, pain or interior Wind

> >Metal Type

> >Fat body. Central Obesity.

> >crack at the front of the earlobe is heart.

> >deficient

> >excess heat maybe liver or heart

> >fire imbalance

> >related to metal, lung deficiency

> >cold or insufficient qi

> >Deficient Yang if weak

> >deficiency of liver blood

> >

> >Organs/Meridians: Kidney, Stomach, Liver, Heart, Lung.

> >

> >

> >Treatment principles/points:

> >Consolidate Kidney, Reinforce Qi. Du 4; Ki 3, 12; Ren 3, 4, 6; Sp 6; UB

> >22, 23, 28, 39.

> >Strengthen Stomach Qi, Invigorate Spleen. Ren 6, 12; Sp 6; St 21, 36; UB

> >20, 21.

> >Nourish Blood, Subdue Wind. Du 14, 16, 20, 26; Lv 3, 8; Ren 4; Sp 6; St

>36;

> >UB 17, 18, 20.

> >Reinforce and strengthen Heart Qi. Ht 7, P 6; Ren 6, 14, 17; St 36; UB

>15.

> >Reinforce Lungs, Strengthen Qi, Restore the descending function of Lung

>Qi.

> >Lu 7, 9; Ren 6, 17; St 36; UB 13,43.

> >

> >Regards,

> >

> >

> >Pete<snip>

 

Regards,

 

Pete

 

_______________

It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today!

http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Hi Salvador!

 

Oh, I *never* give up. So far, however, the PN patients are not any better.

Since the patients come only once a week I have only seen them once since

you gave me your suggestions.

 

Consider Gloria, 12/20/26 this is what I get with the program:

 

c552aa.jpg

 

 

I don't know what to do from here.

 

At 02:33 AM 3/1/2004, you wrote:

>Pete wrote,<snip>

 

Regards,

 

Pete

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Hi Salvador!

 

The c552aa.jpg was a screen shot. I guess the list doesn't support that. It

was what the Magicos program serves up for Gloria's date of birth.

 

You can do it on your own computer and see what I see. It shows a bunch of

numbers and I don't know what they mean. Personality 2, Control 1, Tendency

6, Fogo 9, Terra 2, 5, 8; Metal 6, 7; Agua 1, Madiera 3, 4.

 

At 02:52 AM 3/1/2004, you wrote:

>Hi Salvador!

>

>Oh, I *never* give up. So far, however, the PN patients are not any better.

>Since the patients come only once a week I have only seen them once since

>you gave me your suggestions.

>

>Consider Gloria, 12/20/26 this is what I get with the program:

>

>c552aa.jpg

>

>

>I don't know what to do from here.

>

>At 02:33 AM 3/1/2004, you wrote:

> >Pete wrote,<snip>

>

>Regards,

>

>Pete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Pete wrote:

> >Hi Salvador!

> >

> >Oh, I *never* give up. So far, however, the PN patients are not any

>better.

> >Since the patients come only once a week I have only seen them once since

> >you gave me your suggestions.

> >

> >Consider Gloria, 12/20/26 this is what I get with the program:

-----------

 

HI Pete.

 

If you are interested in exploring with me this way of enhancing your

diagnosisng I wouldbe grateful for feedback which would be useful not just

to me but to the silent others. for example.

 

useful feed back would be based on the info I have provided to date :

what needles / points you inserted, wether they were inserted clocwise or

anticlockwise and for how long what physiological/ emotional/ mental changes

occurred to the patient. how they felt once they put their clothes back

on.

 

when you see them again once more you ask about the symptoms that may have

come or gone.

 

this is very tri cky as patients tend to have very little body awareness.

but a huge capacity to interpret white as purple.

 

a good treatment will leave the patient feeling better for a few days and

then they start to slide again depending on their ongoing streses wether at

work, family, money etc.,

 

I had a patient for her 3rd treatment last week, she's initially come with

facial neuralgia, frozen shoulder, bad neck, and lots of stress at work.

none of the initial presenting sysmptoms we there any more apart from a

little stiffenss in the shoulder. but she complained on needing to go to the

dentist because of self diagnosed upper teeth abcess infection.

 

Now I know that when I treat someone correctly they should not be having

infections appearing out of the blue. So I felt in a quandary. Had I made a

mistake? then how come the initial symptoms had all gone?

 

I asked the patient to show me her gums and I noted that there was a small

tear in the gums between the molars. My patient has diagnosed herself as

having an infection because of the pain and discomfort. but she had no

symptoms of infection at all:)

 

 

with regards to gloria 12 Dec. 1926 2-1-6 SP - KID/ BL- LI

 

I found the programs useful but confusing so I developed a calendar to

hand out in my workshops for all dates of birth from 1900 to 2017 composed

of 3 double sided laminated pages and very clear. for any of you that are

interested it is £7.50 in the uk . abroad you'll have to let me know as to

country to work out P & P. needles to say this should be done privately.

 

salvador

 

_______________

It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today!

http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Hi Salvador!

 

<snip>

 

>with regards to gloria 12 Dec. 1926 2-1-6 SP - KID/ BL- LI

 

So this patient should be treated on the spleen, kidney, bladder and large

intestine points or these organs should be tonified, or sedated? I am in

the US, Florida.

 

Regards,

 

Pete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...