Ve vs. Me vs. Ju in 8th house (Saravali)

[Guest guest]

Agreed Sheevani ji.

 

Thanks for replying back..

 

regards,

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

, " Sheevani "

<sheevani147 wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar ji,

>

> Namaste,

>

> Being sag lagna, my upachay lords are also Asuras.. sometimes in life

u have to be cruel to be kind.

>

> Always remember, the Soul is always pure, but it is human nature to

look for classifications and create divisions, asura-sura, male-female

> weak-strong, high-low, good-bad, benefic-malefic etc etc.

>

> Concepts of mind are limited, hence we see in piece-meal, and allocate

things in small boxes in the mind. Vishalta( overview) comes from the

higher mind.

>

> warmest regards

> Sheevani

>

>

> , " Bhaskar "

bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:

> >

> > dear Sheevani ji

> >

> > Am learning new things daily. Now I realised why some people find me

as " Asura " . I have my upachaya Lords in their own houses in my chart, so

strong..

> >

> > regards/Bhaskar.

> >

> >

> > , " Sheevani "

<sheevani147@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Neelam ji,

> > >

> > > Namaste.

> > >

> > > Thank you so much for your explanations. It is always good

practice to revisit our assuptions. especially when it comes to the

basics.

> > >

> > > I was thinking along the lines ,, with leo lagna, all the upachaya

lords belong to the asura group, in cancer, it is a mixed bag, and with

aquarious, upacharya lords are the sura(deva) group

> > > In determing the fruits of the dasha and antra dasha period, this

relationship with the lagna also comes into play.

> > >

> > > Sorry the mind does go into tangent from time to time.

> > >

> > > Thanks for directing it back to base..

> > >

> > > warmest regards

> > > Sheevani

> > > , neelam gupta

<neelamgupta07@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Sheevaniji,

> > > >

> > > > As per my humble understanding:

> > > >

> > > > 1. what if there are no planets in any of the Upchay houses?

> > > > As you know plants show us the focus on a house. Nonetheless, it

is the

> > > > lords who are always responsible for their houses. The planet in

the house

> > > > may or may not be good for its significations, but the lord

shall always

> > > > promote the house to the best of its ability. The principles of

judgment

> > > > remain the same, only we are looking for factors for upchay and

synthesizing

> > > > the results. We have to look for upchay lords, their strength in

vargas,

> > > > planets in upchay whether they support upchay or resist upchay,

aspects,

> > > > etc.

> > > >

> > > > 2, Is it better to have the upchay houses being owned by same

group of

> > > > planets, like asura and sura group. eg cancer lagna, u get mixed

group, with

> > > > jupiter and mars owning 6,10 H and mercury and venus owning 3

and 11H.

> > > > Like-minded people and strong teams always work better. Isn't

it? But in

> > > > astrology, there are always two faces of a coin! :-)

> > > >

> > > > 3. We know that malefic planets give more material benefits in

upachay

> > > > houses, what effect does lordships contribute.

> > > > Houses present the environment for planets to work. Lords are

responsible

> > > > for the results of the house as per their nature and

significations. It

> > > > would be lords to actually promote upchay through the upchay

houses. Just

> > > > like Rajyogas are not possible without PAC connections between

kona-trikona,

> > > > upchay yogas (if I may call them) are not possible without PAC

connection

> > > > between Upchay lords and planets in Upchay. Malefics may give

material

> > > > gains, but I think Upchay is a very personal and individual

phenomenon,

> > > > pertaining to progress of soul.

> > > >

> > > > First and foremost we must be clear what upchay has been granted

in Prarabdh

> > > > to a person by checking the upchay lords and their placements.

Its like

> > > > considering a natal promise of Upchay, then dashas and transits,

etc.

> > > >

> > > > Hope I am clear.

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > > Neelam

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On 18 April 2010 17:02, Sheevani <sheevani147@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Neelam ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste,

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you for your clear and logical imput on upachaya house.

> > > > >

> > > > > Might I ask a couple of questions for further clarification

and

> > > > > understanding..

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. what if there are no planets in any of the Upchay houses?

> > > > >

> > > > > 2, Is it better to have the upchay houses being owned by same

group of

> > > > > planets, like asura and sura group. eg cancer lagna, u get

mixed group, with

> > > > > jupiter and mars owning 6,10 H and mercury and venus owning 3

and 11H.

> > > > >

> > > > > 3. We know that malefic planets give more material benefits in

upachay

> > > > > houses, what effect does lordships contribute.

> > > > >

> > > > > warmest regards

> > > > > Sheevani

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In

<%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> > > > > neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I think it is important to understand what UPCHAY is? It is

growth,

> > > > > > collection, accumulation. 3/6/10/11 have been given to us as

our upchaya

> > > > > > houses.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For lagna or self, the effort and initiation of 3rd house

has to go

> > > > > through

> > > > > > the grind of 6th, supported by karma in 10th, the

growth/accumulation

> > > > > > results in the 11th. Upchay is not possible in a single

house. One has to

> > > > > > turn the full wheel through the four houses to see the

upchay for a

> > > > > person.

> > > > > > Upchay for self is sum total of all experiences of a

lifetime as its is

> > > > > > assigned to self. The total collection would include

portions given by

> > > > > all

> > > > > > areas. Where upchay is more in a particular lifetime would

be shown by

> > > > > the

> > > > > > planets influencing these houses and their lorships. This

comes from the

> > > > > > prarabdh and decides by the previous karmas.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > However, if you take out 10 from the scheme, you are left

with

> > > > > trishadaya!

> > > > > > It is important to remember that 10th plays the crucial role

of

> > > > > converting

> > > > > > trichadaya into upchaya. Good karmas would lead to good

upchay and bad

> > > > > would

> > > > > > lead to bad!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Another important point is not to mix the upchay for lagna

(3/6/10/11)

> > > > > with

> > > > > > other houses. Each house will have its own upchay sthans. 7L

in 11H is

> > > > > not

> > > > > > in upchay sthan for 7th. It can only give a multiplicity of

7H marriages

> > > > > by

> > > > > > virtue of 11H results. Let us not confuse it with upchay. A

person who

> > > > > > marries once expends his resources on one wife, if he

married twice, he

> > > > > does

> > > > > > on 2 wives – means double spending! Where's the upchay

for self in such a

> > > > > > case? Upchaya for marriage would be 9/12/4/5 which means a

marriage

> > > > > > initiated and solemnized in 9H and passed the strifes in

12th where we

> > > > > spend

> > > > > > ourselves in marriage and add good karma or domestic sukh to

it so that

> > > > > we

> > > > > > accumulate its results or reap the rewards of getting good

progeny in 5H!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hope this makes sense.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > Neelam

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 17 April 2010 12:28, chiranjiv mehta <vchiranjiv@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Moujiramji, Kiran Ramaji and all,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > IMHO :

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 7th in 11th upachaya house - increases the benefits to the

7th house

> > > > > > > significations.

> > > > > > > Since we are talking about the favourite signification of

partners - it

> > > > > > > means gains to the partners.

> > > > > > > Will it mean that the Jataka enjoys many partners ? - That

depends on

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > other houses like 1st house, 1HL etc. If they are aspected

by

> > > > > restraining

> > > > > > > graha' aspect positioning or other yogas then he may not

enjoy the

> > > > > > > multiplicity of enjoyments of 7th house.

> > > > > > > Conversely a person's 1HL and other things may be spoilt

and the 7th

> > > > > > > house/lord barren, yet that will not prevent him from

Purushartha - you

> > > > > know

> > > > > > > what I mean.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Everybody has a potential to have more partners - depends

on all

> > > > > factors if

> > > > > > > he is able to.

> > > > > > > All factors 7,11,1,5,8,12 etc.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks & Regards

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Chiranjiv Mehta

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- On *Sat, 17/4/10, kiran.rama <kiran.rama@>* wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > kiran.rama <kiran.rama@>

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Re: Ve vs. Me vs. Ju

in 8th house

> > > > > > > (Saravali)

> > > > > > > To:

<%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> > > > > > > Saturday, 17 April, 2010, 11:48 AM

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Renu ji:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > From a specific relationships angle, 7HL in 11H implies

gain of

> > > > > > > relationships, spouse, partners etc - so 'extra' partners

could be a

> > > > > > > signification of 7HL in 11H. Retrograde planet means

significations are

> > > > > held

> > > > > > > latent - and are difficult to get expressed unless there

is effort on

> > > > > part

> > > > > > > of the native. So as a result seems like the native

entered into

> > > > > > > relationships slightly late in life. Retro is not causing

the

> > > > > immorality but

> > > > > > > has made the need for extra partners/passion more

pronounced!!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The immorality is caused by Ma-Sa aspect; Remember this

harm is going

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > happen irrespective of Ma-Sa house lordship; even if they

were lording

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > 7H. 7H is not able to utilize Ma/Sa energy.

> > > > > > > Even if it was exalted Ma/Sa aspect, the result would have

been the

> > > > > same

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > Kiran

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<

> > > > >

http://in.mc946.mail./mc/compose?to=%40\

 

> > > > > >,

> > > > >

> > > > > > > " renunw " <renunw@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I have a typical example of a Mithuna lagna native where

Jupiter is

> > > > > > > placed in 11th house and native leading an immoral life.

Here Ju is

> > > > > > > retrograde. Besides Sa's 3rd aspect and Ma's 8th aspect

falls on this

> > > > > Ju.

> > > > > > > The native is married to a girl 14 years younger to him.

Now he has an

> > > > > extra

> > > > > > > marital relationship with a girl 22 years younger to him!

Is this the

> > > > > work

> > > > > > > of retro Ju, the 7th lord in 11th house?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > blessings,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Renu

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<

> > > > >

http://in.mc946.mail./mc/compose?to=%40\

 

> > > > > >,

> > > > >

> > > > > > > Manoj Kumar <mouji99@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Those who consider that Upachaya houses are houses of

expansion and

> > > > > > > requested to answer a small question. Jupiter as lord of

7th house,

> > > > > goes to

> > > > > > > 11th house and now what would this placement of Jupiter

mean. Say for

> > > > > > > Mithuna lagna.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Mouji

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskar ji, Sheevani ji,

 

I think the terminology may be misleading, only a deeper understanding

can reveal the truth.

 

I do not think we should think of ASURAs the way we do now, almost

equating them with demons or linking them up with a sinister quality

which may not be there in them.

Karna Parva of Mahabharta identifies MAYA, the celestial artificer as

Asura who knows no fatugue or decay and is worshipped by Daityas and

Danavas. He is the one who seems to have created the three cities

(Tripura)!

 

By this logic I guess Devatas may be NOT-MAYA and Asuras may be MAYA!

We can extend it to planets!

 

I am no expert on ancient texts and vedas. These are just some random thoughts.

 

Regards

Neelam

 

 

 

On 18 April 2010 20:24, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

>

>

>

> Agreed Sheevani ji.

>

> Thanks for replying back..

>

> regards,

>

> Bhaskar.

>

> , " Sheevani "

> <sheevani147 wrote:

> >

> > Dear Bhaskar ji,

> >

> > Namaste,

> >

> > Being sag lagna, my upachay lords are also Asuras.. sometimes in life

> u have to be cruel to be kind.

> >

> > Always remember, the Soul is always pure, but it is human nature to

> look for classifications and create divisions, asura-sura, male-female

> > weak-strong, high-low, good-bad, benefic-malefic etc etc.

> >

> > Concepts of mind are limited, hence we see in piece-meal, and allocate

> things in small boxes in the mind. Vishalta( overview) comes from the

> higher mind.

> >

> > warmest regards

> > Sheevani

> >

> >

> > , " Bhaskar "

> bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:

> > >

> > > dear Sheevani ji

> > >

> > > Am learning new things daily. Now I realised why some people find me

> as " Asura " . I have my upachaya Lords in their own houses in my chart, so

> strong..

> > >

> > > regards/Bhaskar.

> > >

> > >

> > > , " Sheevani "

> <sheevani147@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Neelam ji,

> > > >

> > > > Namaste.

> > > >

> > > > Thank you so much for your explanations. It is always good

> practice to revisit our assuptions. especially when it comes to the

> basics.

> > > >

> > > > I was thinking along the lines ,, with leo lagna, all the upachaya

> lords belong to the asura group, in cancer, it is a mixed bag, and with

> aquarious, upacharya lords are the sura(deva) group

> > > > In determing the fruits of the dasha and antra dasha period, this

> relationship with the lagna also comes into play.

> > > >

> > > > Sorry the mind does go into tangent from time to time.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for directing it back to base..

> > > >

> > > > warmest regards

> > > > Sheevani

> > > > , neelam gupta

> <neelamgupta07@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Sheevaniji,

> > > > >

> > > > > As per my humble understanding:

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. what if there are no planets in any of the Upchay houses?

> > > > > As you know plants show us the focus on a house. Nonetheless, it

> is the

> > > > > lords who are always responsible for their houses. The planet in

> the house

> > > > > may or may not be good for its significations, but the lord

> shall always

> > > > > promote the house to the best of its ability. The principles of

> judgment

> > > > > remain the same, only we are looking for factors for upchay and

> synthesizing

> > > > > the results. We have to look for upchay lords, their strength in

> vargas,

> > > > > planets in upchay whether they support upchay or resist upchay,

> aspects,

> > > > > etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2, Is it better to have the upchay houses being owned by same

> group of

> > > > > planets, like asura and sura group. eg cancer lagna, u get mixed

> group, with

> > > > > jupiter and mars owning 6,10 H and mercury and venus owning 3

> and 11H.

> > > > > Like-minded people and strong teams always work better. Isn't

> it? But in

> > > > > astrology, there are always two faces of a coin! :-)

> > > > >

> > > > > 3. We know that malefic planets give more material benefits in

> upachay

> > > > > houses, what effect does lordships contribute.

> > > > > Houses present the environment for planets to work. Lords are

> responsible

> > > > > for the results of the house as per their nature and

> significations. It

> > > > > would be lords to actually promote upchay through the upchay

> houses. Just

> > > > > like Rajyogas are not possible without PAC connections between

> kona-trikona,

> > > > > upchay yogas (if I may call them) are not possible without PAC

> connection

> > > > > between Upchay lords and planets in Upchay. Malefics may give

> material

> > > > > gains, but I think Upchay is a very personal and individual

> phenomenon,

> > > > > pertaining to progress of soul.

> > > > >

> > > > > First and foremost we must be clear what upchay has been granted

> in Prarabdh

> > > > > to a person by checking the upchay lords and their placements.

> Its like

> > > > > considering a natal promise of Upchay, then dashas and transits,

> etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > Hope I am clear.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards

> > > > > Neelam

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > On 18 April 2010 17:02, Sheevani <sheevani147@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Neelam ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thank you for your clear and logical imput on upachaya house.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Might I ask a couple of questions for further clarification

> and

> > > > > > understanding..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. what if there are no planets in any of the Upchay houses?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2, Is it better to have the upchay houses being owned by same

> group of

> > > > > > planets, like asura and sura group. eg cancer lagna, u get

> mixed group, with

> > > > > > jupiter and mars owning 6,10 H and mercury and venus owning 3

> and 11H.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3. We know that malefic planets give more material benefits in

> upachay

> > > > > > houses, what effect does lordships contribute.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > warmest regards

> > > > > > Sheevani

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In

> <%40yaho\

> ogroups.com>,

> > > > > > neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I think it is important to understand what UPCHAY is? It is

> growth,

> > > > > > > collection, accumulation. 3/6/10/11 have been given to us as

> our upchaya

> > > > > > > houses.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > For lagna or self, the effort and initiation of 3rd house

> has to go

> > > > > > through

> > > > > > > the grind of 6th, supported by karma in 10th, the

> growth/accumulation

> > > > > > > results in the 11th. Upchay is not possible in a single

> house. One has to

> > > > > > > turn the full wheel through the four houses to see the

> upchay for a

> > > > > > person.

> > > > > > > Upchay for self is sum total of all experiences of a

> lifetime as its is

> > > > > > > assigned to self. The total collection would include

> portions given by

> > > > > > all

> > > > > > > areas. Where upchay is more in a particular lifetime would

> be shown by

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > planets influencing these houses and their lorships. This

> comes from the

> > > > > > > prarabdh and decides by the previous karmas.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > However, if you take out 10 from the scheme, you are left

> with

> > > > > > trishadaya!

> > > > > > > It is important to remember that 10th plays the crucial role

> of

> > > > > > converting

> > > > > > > trichadaya into upchaya. Good karmas would lead to good

> upchay and bad

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > lead to bad!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Another important point is not to mix the upchay for lagna

> (3/6/10/11)

> > > > > > with

> > > > > > > other houses. Each house will have its own upchay sthans. 7L

> in 11H is

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > in upchay sthan for 7th. It can only give a multiplicity of

> 7H marriages

> > > > > > by

> > > > > > > virtue of 11H results. Let us not confuse it with upchay. A

> person who

> > > > > > > marries once expends his resources on one wife, if he

> married twice, he

> > > > > > does

> > > > > > > on 2 wives – means double spending! Where's the upchay

> for self in such a

> > > > > > > case? Upchaya for marriage would be 9/12/4/5 which means a

> marriage

> > > > > > > initiated and solemnized in 9H and passed the strifes in

> 12th where we

> > > > > > spend

> > > > > > > ourselves in marriage and add good karma or domestic sukh to

> it so that

> > > > > > we

> > > > > > > accumulate its results or reap the rewards of getting good

> progeny in 5H!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hope this makes sense.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > Neelam

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > On 17 April 2010 12:28, chiranjiv mehta <vchiranjiv@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Moujiramji, Kiran Ramaji and all,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > IMHO :

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 7th in 11th upachaya house - increases the benefits to the

> 7th house

> > > > > > > > significations.

> > > > > > > > Since we are talking about the favourite signification of

> partners - it

> > > > > > > > means gains to the partners.

> > > > > > > > Will it mean that the Jataka enjoys many partners ? - That

> depends on

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > other houses like 1st house, 1HL etc. If they are aspected

> by

> > > > > > restraining

> > > > > > > > graha' aspect positioning or other yogas then he may not

> enjoy the

> > > > > > > > multiplicity of enjoyments of 7th house.

> > > > > > > > Conversely a person's 1HL and other things may be spoilt

> and the 7th

> > > > > > > > house/lord barren, yet that will not prevent him from

> Purushartha - you

> > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > what I mean.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Everybody has a potential to have more partners - depends

> on all

> > > > > > factors if

> > > > > > > > he is able to.

> > > > > > > > All factors 7,11,1,5,8,12 etc.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Chiranjiv Mehta

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- On *Sat, 17/4/10, kiran.rama <kiran.rama@>* wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > kiran.rama <kiran.rama@>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Re: Ve vs. Me vs. Ju

> in 8th house

> > > > > > > > (Saravali)

> > > > > > > > To:

> <%40yaho\

> ogroups.com>

> > > > > > > > Saturday, 17 April, 2010, 11:48 AM

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Renu ji:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > From a specific relationships angle, 7HL in 11H implies

> gain of

> > > > > > > > relationships, spouse, partners etc - so 'extra' partners

> could be a

> > > > > > > > signification of 7HL in 11H. Retrograde planet means

> significations are

> > > > > > held

> > > > > > > > latent - and are difficult to get expressed unless there

> is effort on

> > > > > > part

> > > > > > > > of the native. So as a result seems like the native

> entered into

> > > > > > > > relationships slightly late in life. Retro is not causing

> the

> > > > > > immorality but

> > > > > > > > has made the need for extra partners/passion more

> pronounced!!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The immorality is caused by Ma-Sa aspect; Remember this

> harm is going

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > happen irrespective of Ma-Sa house lordship; even if they

> were lording

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > 7H. 7H is not able to utilize Ma/Sa energy.

> > > > > > > > Even if it was exalted Ma/Sa aspect, the result would have

> been the

> > > > > > same

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > Kiran

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<

> > > > > >

> http://in.mc946.mail./mc/compose?to=%40\

>

> > > > > > >,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " renunw " <renunw@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I have a typical example of a Mithuna lagna native where

> Jupiter is

> > > > > > > > placed in 11th house and native leading an immoral life.

> Here Ju is

> > > > > > > > retrograde. Besides Sa's 3rd aspect and Ma's 8th aspect

> falls on this

> > > > > > Ju.

> > > > > > > > The native is married to a girl 14 years younger to him.

> Now he has an

> > > > > > extra

> > > > > > > > marital relationship with a girl 22 years younger to him!

> Is this the

> > > > > > work

> > > > > > > > of retro Ju, the 7th lord in 11th house?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > blessings,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Renu

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<

> > > > > >

> http://in.mc946.mail./mc/compose?to=%40\

>

> > > > > > >,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Manoj Kumar <mouji99@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Those who consider that Upachaya houses are houses of

> expansion and

> > > > > > > > requested to answer a small question. Jupiter as lord of

> 7th house,

> > > > > > goes to

> > > > > > > > 11th house and now what would this placement of Jupiter

> mean. Say for

> > > > > > > > Mithuna lagna.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Mouji

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam ji,

 

Namaste,

I agree with your take as asuras being MAYA.. in fact i feel they are good for

the material perspective, as they give desires, ambition, targets and the drive

to achieve.

 

Suras give contentment and a tendency to preserve the status quo, and in upachay

Lordships/houses, compromise to preserve is more often felt.

 

warmest regards

Sheevani

 

, neelam gupta

<neelamgupta07 wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar ji, Sheevani ji,

>

> I think the terminology may be misleading, only a deeper understanding

> can reveal the truth.

>

> I do not think we should think of ASURAs the way we do now, almost

> equating them with demons or linking them up with a sinister quality

> which may not be there in them.

> Karna Parva of Mahabharta identifies MAYA, the celestial artificer as

> Asura who knows no fatugue or decay and is worshipped by Daityas and

> Danavas. He is the one who seems to have created the three cities

> (Tripura)!

>

> By this logic I guess Devatas may be NOT-MAYA and Asuras may be MAYA!

> We can extend it to planets!

>

> I am no expert on ancient texts and vedas. These are just some random

thoughts.

>

> Regards

> Neelam

>

>

>

> On 18 April 2010 20:24, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > Agreed Sheevani ji.

> >

> > Thanks for replying back..

> >

> > regards,

> >

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> > , " Sheevani "

> > <sheevani147@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Bhaskar ji,

> > >

> > > Namaste,

> > >

> > > Being sag lagna, my upachay lords are also Asuras.. sometimes in life

> > u have to be cruel to be kind.

> > >

> > > Always remember, the Soul is always pure, but it is human nature to

> > look for classifications and create divisions, asura-sura, male-female

> > > weak-strong, high-low, good-bad, benefic-malefic etc etc.

> > >

> > > Concepts of mind are limited, hence we see in piece-meal, and allocate

> > things in small boxes in the mind. Vishalta( overview) comes from the

> > higher mind.

> > >

> > > warmest regards

> > > Sheevani

> > >

> > >

> > > , " Bhaskar "

> > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > dear Sheevani ji

> > > >

> > > > Am learning new things daily. Now I realised why some people find me

> > as " Asura " . I have my upachaya Lords in their own houses in my chart, so

> > strong..

> > > >

> > > > regards/Bhaskar.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , " Sheevani "

> > <sheevani147@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Neelam ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you so much for your explanations. It is always good

> > practice to revisit our assuptions. especially when it comes to the

> > basics.

> > > > >

> > > > > I was thinking along the lines ,, with leo lagna, all the upachaya

> > lords belong to the asura group, in cancer, it is a mixed bag, and with

> > aquarious, upacharya lords are the sura(deva) group

> > > > > In determing the fruits of the dasha and antra dasha period, this

> > relationship with the lagna also comes into play.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sorry the mind does go into tangent from time to time.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for directing it back to base..

> > > > >

> > > > > warmest regards

> > > > > Sheevani

> > > > > , neelam gupta

> > <neelamgupta07@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Sheevaniji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As per my humble understanding:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. what if there are no planets in any of the Upchay houses?

> > > > > > As you know plants show us the focus on a house. Nonetheless, it

> > is the

> > > > > > lords who are always responsible for their houses. The planet in

> > the house

> > > > > > may or may not be good for its significations, but the lord

> > shall always

> > > > > > promote the house to the best of its ability. The principles of

> > judgment

> > > > > > remain the same, only we are looking for factors for upchay and

> > synthesizing

> > > > > > the results. We have to look for upchay lords, their strength in

> > vargas,

> > > > > > planets in upchay whether they support upchay or resist upchay,

> > aspects,

> > > > > > etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2, Is it better to have the upchay houses being owned by same

> > group of

> > > > > > planets, like asura and sura group. eg cancer lagna, u get mixed

> > group, with

> > > > > > jupiter and mars owning 6,10 H and mercury and venus owning 3

> > and 11H.

> > > > > > Like-minded people and strong teams always work better. Isn't

> > it? But in

> > > > > > astrology, there are always two faces of a coin! :-)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3. We know that malefic planets give more material benefits in

> > upachay

> > > > > > houses, what effect does lordships contribute.

> > > > > > Houses present the environment for planets to work. Lords are

> > responsible

> > > > > > for the results of the house as per their nature and

> > significations. It

> > > > > > would be lords to actually promote upchay through the upchay

> > houses. Just

> > > > > > like Rajyogas are not possible without PAC connections between

> > kona-trikona,

> > > > > > upchay yogas (if I may call them) are not possible without PAC

> > connection

> > > > > > between Upchay lords and planets in Upchay. Malefics may give

> > material

> > > > > > gains, but I think Upchay is a very personal and individual

> > phenomenon,

> > > > > > pertaining to progress of soul.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > First and foremost we must be clear what upchay has been granted

> > in Prarabdh

> > > > > > to a person by checking the upchay lords and their placements.

> > Its like

> > > > > > considering a natal promise of Upchay, then dashas and transits,

> > etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hope I am clear.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > Neelam

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 18 April 2010 17:02, Sheevani <sheevani147@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Neelam ji,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaste,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thank you for your clear and logical imput on upachaya house.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Might I ask a couple of questions for further clarification

> > and

> > > > > > > understanding..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1. what if there are no planets in any of the Upchay houses?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2, Is it better to have the upchay houses being owned by same

> > group of

> > > > > > > planets, like asura and sura group. eg cancer lagna, u get

> > mixed group, with

> > > > > > > jupiter and mars owning 6,10 H and mercury and venus owning 3

> > and 11H.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 3. We know that malefic planets give more material benefits in

> > upachay

> > > > > > > houses, what effect does lordships contribute.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > warmest regards

> > > > > > > Sheevani

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

> > <%40yaho\

> > ogroups.com>,

> > > > > > > neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I think it is important to understand what UPCHAY is? It is

> > growth,

> > > > > > > > collection, accumulation. 3/6/10/11 have been given to us as

> > our upchaya

> > > > > > > > houses.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > For lagna or self, the effort and initiation of 3rd house

> > has to go

> > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > the grind of 6th, supported by karma in 10th, the

> > growth/accumulation

> > > > > > > > results in the 11th. Upchay is not possible in a single

> > house. One has to

> > > > > > > > turn the full wheel through the four houses to see the

> > upchay for a

> > > > > > > person.

> > > > > > > > Upchay for self is sum total of all experiences of a

> > lifetime as its is

> > > > > > > > assigned to self. The total collection would include

> > portions given by

> > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > areas. Where upchay is more in a particular lifetime would

> > be shown by

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > planets influencing these houses and their lorships. This

> > comes from the

> > > > > > > > prarabdh and decides by the previous karmas.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > However, if you take out 10 from the scheme, you are left

> > with

> > > > > > > trishadaya!

> > > > > > > > It is important to remember that 10th plays the crucial role

> > of

> > > > > > > converting

> > > > > > > > trichadaya into upchaya. Good karmas would lead to good

> > upchay and bad

> > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > lead to bad!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Another important point is not to mix the upchay for lagna

> > (3/6/10/11)

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > other houses. Each house will have its own upchay sthans. 7L

> > in 11H is

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > in upchay sthan for 7th. It can only give a multiplicity of

> > 7H marriages

> > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > virtue of 11H results. Let us not confuse it with upchay. A

> > person who

> > > > > > > > marries once expends his resources on one wife, if he

> > married twice, he

> > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > on 2 wives – means double spending! Where's the upchay

> > for self in such a

> > > > > > > > case? Upchaya for marriage would be 9/12/4/5 which means a

> > marriage

> > > > > > > > initiated and solemnized in 9H and passed the strifes in

> > 12th where we

> > > > > > > spend

> > > > > > > > ourselves in marriage and add good karma or domestic sukh to

> > it so that

> > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > accumulate its results or reap the rewards of getting good

> > progeny in 5H!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Hope this makes sense.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > Neelam

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > On 17 April 2010 12:28, chiranjiv mehta <vchiranjiv@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Moujiramji, Kiran Ramaji and all,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > IMHO :

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 7th in 11th upachaya house - increases the benefits to the

> > 7th house

> > > > > > > > > significations.

> > > > > > > > > Since we are talking about the favourite signification of

> > partners - it

> > > > > > > > > means gains to the partners.

> > > > > > > > > Will it mean that the Jataka enjoys many partners ? - That

> > depends on

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > other houses like 1st house, 1HL etc. If they are aspected

> > by

> > > > > > > restraining

> > > > > > > > > graha' aspect positioning or other yogas then he may not

> > enjoy the

> > > > > > > > > multiplicity of enjoyments of 7th house.

> > > > > > > > > Conversely a person's 1HL and other things may be spoilt

> > and the 7th

> > > > > > > > > house/lord barren, yet that will not prevent him from

> > Purushartha - you

> > > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > what I mean.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Everybody has a potential to have more partners - depends

> > on all

> > > > > > > factors if

> > > > > > > > > he is able to.

> > > > > > > > > All factors 7,11,1,5,8,12 etc.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Chiranjiv Mehta

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- On *Sat, 17/4/10, kiran.rama <kiran.rama@>* wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > kiran.rama <kiran.rama@>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Re: Ve vs. Me vs. Ju

> > in 8th house

> > > > > > > > > (Saravali)

> > > > > > > > > To:

> > <%40yaho\

> > ogroups.com>

> > > > > > > > > Saturday, 17 April, 2010, 11:48 AM

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Renu ji:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > From a specific relationships angle, 7HL in 11H implies

> > gain of

> > > > > > > > > relationships, spouse, partners etc - so 'extra' partners

> > could be a

> > > > > > > > > signification of 7HL in 11H. Retrograde planet means

> > significations are

> > > > > > > held

> > > > > > > > > latent - and are difficult to get expressed unless there

> > is effort on

> > > > > > > part

> > > > > > > > > of the native. So as a result seems like the native

> > entered into

> > > > > > > > > relationships slightly late in life. Retro is not causing

> > the

> > > > > > > immorality but

> > > > > > > > > has made the need for extra partners/passion more

> > pronounced!!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The immorality is caused by Ma-Sa aspect; Remember this

> > harm is going

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > happen irrespective of Ma-Sa house lordship; even if they

> > were lording

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > 7H. 7H is not able to utilize Ma/Sa energy.

> > > > > > > > > Even if it was exalted Ma/Sa aspect, the result would have

> > been the

> > > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > > Kiran

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<

> > > > > > >

> > http://in.mc946.mail./mc/compose?to=%40\

> >

> > > > > > > >,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > " renunw " <renunw@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I have a typical example of a Mithuna lagna native where

> > Jupiter is

> > > > > > > > > placed in 11th house and native leading an immoral life.

> > Here Ju is

> > > > > > > > > retrograde. Besides Sa's 3rd aspect and Ma's 8th aspect

> > falls on this

> > > > > > > Ju.

> > > > > > > > > The native is married to a girl 14 years younger to him.

> > Now he has an

> > > > > > > extra

> > > > > > > > > marital relationship with a girl 22 years younger to him!

> > Is this the

> > > > > > > work

> > > > > > > > > of retro Ju, the 7th lord in 11th house?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > blessings,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Renu

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<

> > > > > > >

> > http://in.mc946.mail./mc/compose?to=%40\

> >

> > > > > > > >,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Manoj Kumar <mouji99@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Those who consider that Upachaya houses are houses of

> > expansion and

> > > > > > > > > requested to answer a small question. Jupiter as lord of

> > 7th house,

> > > > > > > goes to

> > > > > > > > > 11th house and now what would this placement of Jupiter

> > mean. Say for

> > > > > > > > > Mithuna lagna.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Mouji

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam ji,//By this logic I guess Devatas may be NOT-MAYA and Asuras may be MAYA!

We can extend it to planets!//good point.It is said jup is deva guru while ven is asura guru.Further extending jup is spiritual while ven is materialistic.We could check these two in vimsamsa and find out the nature of any given native.This is my personal opinion,those who may not agree can ignore my ignorance.....Warm regards,gopi. , neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar ji, Sheevani ji,> > I think the terminology may be misleading, only a deeper understanding> can reveal the truth.> > I do not think we should think of ASURAs the way we do now, almost> equating them with demons or linking them up with a sinister quality> which may not be there in them.> Karna Parva of Mahabharta identifies MAYA, the celestial artificer as> Asura who knows no fatugue or decay and is worshipped by Daityas and> Danavas. He is the one who seems to have created the three cities> (Tripura)!> > By this logic I guess Devatas may be NOT-MAYA and Asuras may be MAYA!> We can extend it to planets!> > I am no expert on ancient texts and vedas. These are just some random thoughts.> > Regards> Neelam> > > > On 18 April 2010 20:24, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish wrote:> >> >> >> > Agreed Sheevani ji.> >> > Thanks for replying back..> >> > regards,> >> > Bhaskar.> >> > , "Sheevani"> > sheevani147@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Bhaskar ji,> > >> > > Namaste,> > >> > > Being sag lagna, my upachay lords are also Asuras.. sometimes in life> > u have to be cruel to be kind.> > >> > > Always remember, the Soul is always pure, but it is human nature to> > look for classifications and create divisions, asura-sura, male-female> > > weak-strong, high-low, good-bad, benefic-malefic etc etc.> > >> > > Concepts of mind are limited, hence we see in piece-meal, and allocate> > things in small boxes in the mind. Vishalta( overview) comes from the> > higher mind.> > >> > > warmest regards> > > Sheevani> > >> > >> > > , "Bhaskar"> > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> > > >> > > > dear Sheevani ji> > > >> > > > Am learning new things daily. Now I realised why some people find me> > as "Asura". I have my upachaya Lords in their own houses in my chart, so> > strong..> > > >> > > > regards/Bhaskar.> > > >> > > >> > > > , "Sheevani"> > <sheevani147@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Neelam ji,> > > > >> > > > > Namaste.> > > > >> > > > > Thank you so much for your explanations. It is always good> > practice to revisit our assuptions. especially when it comes to the> > basics.> > > > >> > > > > I was thinking along the lines ,, with leo lagna, all the upachaya> > lords belong to the asura group, in cancer, it is a mixed bag, and with> > aquarious, upacharya lords are the sura(deva) group> > > > > In determing the fruits of the dasha and antra dasha period, this> > relationship with the lagna also comes into play.> > > > >> > > > > Sorry the mind does go into tangent from time to time.> > > > >> > > > > Thanks for directing it back to base..> > > > >> > > > > warmest regards> > > > > Sheevani> > > > > , neelam gupta> > <neelamgupta07@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Sheevaniji,> > > > > >> > > > > > As per my humble understanding:> > > > > >> > > > > > 1. what if there are no planets in any of the Upchay houses?> > > > > > As you know plants show us the focus on a house. Nonetheless, it> > is the> > > > > > lords who are always responsible for their houses. The planet in> > the house> > > > > > may or may not be good for its significations, but the lord> > shall always> > > > > > promote the house to the best of its ability. The principles of> > judgment> > > > > > remain the same, only we are looking for factors for upchay and> > synthesizing> > > > > > the results. We have to look for upchay lords, their strength in> > vargas,> > > > > > planets in upchay whether they support upchay or resist upchay,> > aspects,> > > > > > etc.> > > > > >> > > > > > 2, Is it better to have the upchay houses being owned by same> > group of> > > > > > planets, like asura and sura group. eg cancer lagna, u get mixed> > group, with> > > > > > jupiter and mars owning 6,10 H and mercury and venus owning 3> > and 11H.> > > > > > Like-minded people and strong teams always work better. Isn't> > it? But in> > > > > > astrology, there are always two faces of a coin! :-)> > > > > >> > > > > > 3. We know that malefic planets give more material benefits in> > upachay> > > > > > houses, what effect does lordships contribute.> > > > > > Houses present the environment for planets to work. Lords are> > responsible> > > > > > for the results of the house as per their nature and> > significations. It> > > > > > would be lords to actually promote upchay through the upchay> > houses. Just> > > > > > like Rajyogas are not possible without PAC connections between> > kona-trikona,> > > > > > upchay yogas (if I may call them) are not possible without PAC> > connection> > > > > > between Upchay lords and planets in Upchay. Malefics may give> > material> > > > > > gains, but I think Upchay is a very personal and individual> > phenomenon,> > > > > > pertaining to progress of soul.> > > > > >> > > > > > First and foremost we must be clear what upchay has been granted> > in Prarabdh> > > > > > to a person by checking the upchay lords and their placements.> > Its like> > > > > > considering a natal promise of Upchay, then dashas and transits,> > etc.> > > > > >> > > > > > Hope I am clear.> > > > > >> > > > > > Regards> > > > > > Neelam> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > On 18 April 2010 17:02, Sheevani <sheevani147@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Neelam ji,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Namaste,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thank you for your clear and logical imput on upachaya house.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Might I ask a couple of questions for further clarification> > and> > > > > > > understanding..> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 1. what if there are no planets in any of the Upchay houses?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 2, Is it better to have the upchay houses being owned by same> > group of> > > > > > > planets, like asura and sura group. eg cancer lagna, u get> > mixed group, with> > > > > > > jupiter and mars owning 6,10 H and mercury and venus owning 3> > and 11H.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 3. We know that malefic planets give more material benefits in> > upachay> > > > > > > houses, what effect does lordships contribute.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > warmest regards> > > > > > > Sheevani> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > --- In> > <%40yaho\> > ogroups.com>,> > > > > > > neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear All,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I think it is important to understand what UPCHAY is? It is> > growth,> > > > > > > > collection, accumulation. 3/6/10/11 have been given to us as> > our upchaya> > > > > > > > houses.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > For lagna or self, the effort and initiation of 3rd house> > has to go> > > > > > > through> > > > > > > > the grind of 6th, supported by karma in 10th, the> > growth/accumulation> > > > > > > > results in the 11th. Upchay is not possible in a single> > house. One has to> > > > > > > > turn the full wheel through the four houses to see the> > upchay for a> > > > > > > person.> > > > > > > > Upchay for self is sum total of all experiences of a> > lifetime as its is> > > > > > > > assigned to self. The total collection would include> > portions given by> > > > > > > all> > > > > > > > areas. Where upchay is more in a particular lifetime would> > be shown by> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > planets influencing these houses and their lorships. This> > comes from the> > > > > > > > prarabdh and decides by the previous karmas.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > However, if you take out 10 from the scheme, you are left> > with> > > > > > > trishadaya!> > > > > > > > It is important to remember that 10th plays the crucial role> > of> > > > > > > converting> > > > > > > > trichadaya into upchaya. Good karmas would lead to good> > upchay and bad> > > > > > > would> > > > > > > > lead to bad!> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Another important point is not to mix the upchay for lagna> > (3/6/10/11)> > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > other houses. Each house will have its own upchay sthans. 7L> > in 11H is> > > > > > > not> > > > > > > > in upchay sthan for 7th. It can only give a multiplicity of> > 7H marriages> > > > > > > by> > > > > > > > virtue of 11H results. Let us not confuse it with upchay. A> > person who> > > > > > > > marries once expends his resources on one wife, if he> > married twice, he> > > > > > > does> > > > > > > > on 2 wives – means double spending! Where's the upchay> > for self in such a> > > > > > > > case? Upchaya for marriage would be 9/12/4/5 which means a> > marriage> > > > > > > > initiated and solemnized in 9H and passed the strifes in> > 12th where we> > > > > > > spend> > > > > > > > ourselves in marriage and add good karma or domestic sukh to> > it so that> > > > > > > we> > > > > > > > accumulate its results or reap the rewards of getting good> > progeny in 5H!> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Hope this makes sense.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > Neelam> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On 17 April 2010 12:28, chiranjiv mehta <vchiranjiv@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Dear Moujiramji, Kiran Ramaji and all,> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > IMHO :> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > 7th in 11th upachaya house - increases the benefits to the> > 7th house> > > > > > > > > significations.> > > > > > > > > Since we are talking about the favourite signification of> > partners - it> > > > > > > > > means gains to the partners.> > > > > > > > > Will it mean that the Jataka enjoys many partners ? - That> > depends on> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > other houses like 1st house, 1HL etc. If they are aspected> > by> > > > > > > restraining> > > > > > > > > graha' aspect positioning or other yogas then he may not> > enjoy the> > > > > > > > > multiplicity of enjoyments of 7th house.> > > > > > > > > Conversely a person's 1HL and other things may be spoilt> > and the 7th> > > > > > > > > house/lord barren, yet that will not prevent him from> > Purushartha - you> > > > > > > know> > > > > > > > > what I mean.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Everybody has a potential to have more partners - depends> > on all> > > > > > > factors if> > > > > > > > > he is able to.> > > > > > > > > All factors 7,11,1,5,8,12 etc.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Chiranjiv Mehta> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > --- On *Sat, 17/4/10, kiran.rama <kiran.rama@>* wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > kiran.rama <kiran.rama@>> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Re: Ve vs. Me vs. Ju> > in 8th house> > > > > > > > > (Saravali)> > > > > > > > > To:> > <%40yaho\> > ogroups.com>> > > > > > > > > Saturday, 17 April, 2010, 11:48 AM> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Dear Renu ji:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > From a specific relationships angle, 7HL in 11H implies> > gain of> > > > > > > > > relationships, spouse, partners etc - so 'extra' partners> > could be a> > > > > > > > > signification of 7HL in 11H. Retrograde planet means> > significations are> > > > > > > held> > > > > > > > > latent - and are difficult to get expressed unless there> > is effort on> > > > > > > part> > > > > > > > > of the native. So as a result seems like the native> > entered into> > > > > > > > > relationships slightly late in life. Retro is not causing> > the> > > > > > > immorality but> > > > > > > > > has made the need for extra partners/passion more> > pronounced!!> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > The immorality is caused by Ma-Sa aspect; Remember this> > harm is going> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > happen irrespective of Ma-Sa house lordship; even if they> > were lording> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > 7H. 7H is not able to utilize Ma/Sa energy.> > > > > > > > > Even if it was exalted Ma/Sa aspect, the result would have> > been the> > > > > > > same> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Thanks> > > > > > > > > Kiran> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<> > > > > > >> > http://in.mc946.mail./mc/compose?to=%40\> > > > > > > > > >,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > "renunw" <renunw@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > I have a typical example of a Mithuna lagna native where> > Jupiter is> > > > > > > > > placed in 11th house and native leading an immoral life.> > Here Ju is> > > > > > > > > retrograde. Besides Sa's 3rd aspect and Ma's 8th aspect> > falls on this> > > > > > > Ju.> > > > > > > > > The native is married to a girl 14 years younger to him.> > Now he has an> > > > > > > extra> > > > > > > > > marital relationship with a girl 22 years younger to him!> > Is this the> > > > > > > work> > > > > > > > > of retro Ju, the 7th lord in 11th house?> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > blessings,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Renu> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<> > > > > > >> > http://in.mc946.mail./mc/compose?to=%40\> > > > > > > > > >,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Manoj Kumar <mouji99@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Those who consider that Upachaya houses are houses of> > expansion and> > > > > > > > > requested to answer a small question. Jupiter as lord of> > 7th house,> > > > > > > goes to> > > > > > > > > 11th house and now what would this placement of Jupiter> > mean. Say for> > > > > > > > > Mithuna lagna.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Mouji> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam-ji,

 

I am somehow getting confused from this discussion of Upachaya & ASURA.

 

It is not necessary that lagna shall have either ALL Sura / Asura lords as Upachaya lords.

 

Also, all Sura lords need not be benefic ...neither all ASURA be malefic.

 

Sun, Mars are malefic even though they belong to Sura Group and they do quite

well in Upachaya houses.

 

regards

 

 

Chakraborty

 

 

 

On Behalf Of gopalakrishnaMonday, April 19, 2010 9:03 AM Subject: Re: Ve vs. Me vs. Ju in 8th house (Saravali)

Dear Neelam ji,//By this logic I guess Devatas may be NOT-MAYA and Asuras may be MAYA!We can extend it to planets!//good point.It is said jup is deva guru while ven is asura guru.Further extending jup is spiritual while ven is materialistic.We could check these two in vimsamsa and find out the nature of any given native.This is my personal opinion,those who may not agree can ignore my ignorance.....Warm regards,gopi. , neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar ji, Sheevani ji,> > I think the terminology may be misleading, only a deeper understanding> can reveal the truth.> > I do not think we should think of ASURAs the way we do now, almost> equating them with demons or linking them up with a sinister quality> which may not be there in them.> Karna Parva of Mahabharta identifies MAYA, the celestial artificer as> Asura who knows no fatugue or decay and is worshipped by Daityas and> Danavas. He is the one who seems to have created the three cities> (Tripura)!> > By this logic I guess Devatas may be NOT-MAYA and Asuras may be MAYA!> We can extend it to planets!> > I am no expert on ancient texts and vedas. These are just some random thoughts.> > Regards> Neelam> > > > On 18 April 2010 20:24, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish wrote:> >> >> >> > Agreed Sheevani ji.> >> > Thanks for replying back..> >> > regards,> >> > Bhaskar.> >> > , "Sheevani"> > sheevani147@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Bhaskar ji,> > >> > > Namaste,> > >> > > Being sag lagna, my upachay lords are also Asuras.. sometimes in life> > u have to be cruel to be kind.> > >> > > Always remember, the Soul is always pure, but it is human nature to> > look for classifications and create divisions, asura-sura, male-female> > > weak-strong, high-low, good-bad, benefic-malefic etc etc.> > >> > > Concepts of mind are limited, hence we see in piece-meal, and allocate> > things in small boxes in the mind. Vishalta( overview) comes from the> > higher mind.> > >> > > warmest regards> > > Sheevani> > >> > >> > > , "Bhaskar"> > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> > > >> > > > dear Sheevani ji> > > >> > > > Am learning new things daily. Now I realised why some people find me> > as "Asura". I have my upachaya Lords in their own houses in my chart, so> > strong..> > > >> > > > regards/Bhaskar.> > > >> > > >> > > > , "Sheevani"> > <sheevani147@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Neelam ji,> > > > >> > > > > Namaste.> > > > >> > > > > Thank you so much for your explanations. It is always good> > practice to revisit our assuptions. especially when it comes to the> > basics.> > > > >> > > > > I was thinking along the lines ,, with leo lagna, all the upachaya> > lords belong to the asura group, in cancer, it is a mixed bag, and with> > aquarious, upacharya lords are the sura(deva) group> > > > > In determing the fruits of the dasha and antra dasha period, this> > relationship with the lagna also comes into play.> > > > >> > > > > Sorry the mind does go into tangent from time to time.> > > > >> > > > > Thanks for directing it back to base..> > > > >> > > > > warmest regards> > > > > Sheevani> > > > > , neelam gupta> > <neelamgupta07@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Sheevaniji,> > > > > >> > > > > > As per my humble understanding:> > > > > >> > > > > > 1. what if there are no planets in any of the Upchay houses?> > > > > > As you know plants show us the focus on a house. Nonetheless, it> > is the> > > > > > lords who are always responsible for their houses. The planet in> > the house> > > > > > may or may not be good for its significations, but the lord> > shall always> > > > > > promote the house to the best of its ability. The principles of> > judgment> > > > > > remain the same, only we are looking for factors for upchay and> > synthesizing> > > > > > the results. We have to look for upchay lords, their strength in> > vargas,> > > > > > planets in upchay whether they support upchay or resist upchay,> > aspects,> > > > > > etc.> > > > > >> > > > > > 2, Is it better to have the upchay houses being owned by same> > group of> > > > > > planets, like asura and sura group. eg cancer lagna, u get mixed> > group, with> > > > > > jupiter and mars owning 6,10 H and mercury and venus owning 3> > and 11H.> > > > > > Like-minded people and strong teams always work better. Isn't> > it? But in> > > > > > astrology, there are always two faces of a coin! :-)> > > > > >> > > > > > 3. We know that malefic planets give more material benefits in> > upachay> > > > > > houses, what effect does lordships contribute.> > > > > > Houses present the environment for planets to work. Lords are> > responsible> > > > > > for the results of the house as per their nature and> > significations. It> > > > > > would be lords to actually promote upchay through the upchay> > houses. Just> > > > > > like Rajyogas are not possible without PAC connections between> > kona-trikona,> > > > > > upchay yogas (if I may call them) are not possible without PAC> > connection> > > > > > between Upchay lords and planets in Upchay. Malefics may give> > material> > > > > > gains, but I think Upchay is a very personal and individual> > phenomenon,> > > > > > pertaining to progress of soul.> > > > > >> > > > > > First and foremost we must be clear what upchay has been granted> > in Prarabdh> > > > > > to a person by checking the upchay lords and their placements.> > Its like> > > > > > considering a natal promise of Upchay, then dashas and transits,> > etc.> > > > > >> > > > > > Hope I am clear.> > > > > >> > > > > > Regards> > > > > > Neelam> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > On 18 April 2010 17:02, Sheevani <sheevani147@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Neelam ji,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Namaste,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thank you for your clear and logical imput on upachaya house.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Might I ask a couple of questions for further clarification> > and> > > > > > > understanding..> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 1. what if there are no planets in any of the Upchay houses?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 2, Is it better to have the upchay houses being owned by same> > group of> > > > > > > planets, like asura and sura group. eg cancer lagna, u get> > mixed group, with> > > > > > > jupiter and mars owning 6,10 H and mercury and venus owning 3> > and 11H.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 3. We know that malefic planets give more material benefits in> > upachay> > > > > > > houses, what effect does lordships contribute.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > warmest regards> > > > > > > Sheevani> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > --- In> > <%40yaho\> > ogroups.com>,> > > > > > > neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear All,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I think it is important to understand what UPCHAY is? It is> > growth,> > > > > > > > collection, accumulation. 3/6/10/11 have been given to us as> > our upchaya> > > > > > > > houses.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > For lagna or self, the effort and initiation of 3rd house> > has to go> > > > > > > through> > > > > > > > the grind of 6th, supported by karma in 10th, the> > growth/accumulation> > > > > > > > results in the 11th. Upchay is not possible in a single> > house. One has to> > > > > > > > turn the full wheel through the four houses to see the> > upchay for a> > > > > > > person.> > > > > > > > Upchay for self is sum total of all experiences of a> > lifetime as its is> > > > > > > > assigned to self. The total collection would include> > portions given by> > > > > > > all> > > > > > > > areas. Where upchay is more in a particular lifetime would> > be shown by> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > planets influencing these houses and their lorships. This> > comes from the> > > > > > > > prarabdh and decides by the previous karmas.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > However, if you take out 10 from the scheme, you are left> > with> > > > > > > trishadaya!> > > > > > > > It is important to remember that 10th plays the crucial role> > of> > > > > > > converting> > > > > > > > trichadaya into upchaya. Good karmas would lead to good> > upchay and bad> > > > > > > would> > > > > > > > lead to bad!> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Another important point is not to mix the upchay for lagna> > (3/6/10/11)> > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > other houses. Each house will have its own upchay sthans. 7L> > in 11H is> > > > > > > not> > > > > > > > in upchay sthan for 7th. It can only give a multiplicity of> > 7H marriages> > > > > > > by> > > > > > > > virtue of 11H results. Let us not confuse it with upchay. A> > person who> > > > > > > > marries once expends his resources on one wife, if he> > married twice, he> > > > > > > does> > > > > > > > on 2 wives – means double spending! Where's the upchay> > for self in such a> > > > > > > > case? Upchaya for marriage would be 9/12/4/5 which means a> > marriage> > > > > > > > initiated and solemnized in 9H and passed the strifes in> > 12th where we> > > > > > > spend> > > > > > > > ourselves in marriage and add good karma or domestic sukh to> > it so that> > > > > > > we> > > > > > > > accumulate its results or reap the rewards of getting good> > progeny in 5H!> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Hope this makes sense.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > Neelam> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On 17 April 2010 12:28, chiranjiv mehta <vchiranjiv@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Dear Moujiramji, Kiran Ramaji and all,> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > IMHO :> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > 7th in 11th upachaya house - increases the benefits to the> > 7th house> > > > > > > > > significations.> > > > > > > > > Since we are talking about the favourite signification of> > partners - it> > > > > > > > > means gains to the partners.> > > > > > > > > Will it mean that the Jataka enjoys many partners ? - That> > depends on> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > other houses like 1st house, 1HL etc. If they are aspected> > by> > > > > > > restraining> > > > > > > > > graha' aspect positioning or other yogas then he may not> > enjoy the> > > > > > > > > multiplicity of enjoyments of 7th house.> > > > > > > > > Conversely a person's 1HL and other things may be spoilt> > and the 7th> > > > > > > > > house/lord barren, yet that will not prevent him from> > Purushartha - you> > > > > > > know> > > > > > > > > what I mean.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Everybody has a potential to have more partners - depends> > on all> > > > > > > factors if> > > > > > > > > he is able to.> > > > > > > > > All factors 7,11,1,5,8,12 etc.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Chiranjiv Mehta> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > --- On *Sat, 17/4/10, kiran.rama <kiran.rama@>* wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > kiran.rama <kiran.rama@>> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Re: Ve vs. Me vs. Ju> > in 8th house> > > > > > > > > (Saravali)> > > > > > > > > To:> > <%40yaho\> > ogroups.com>> > > > > > > > > Saturday, 17 April, 2010, 11:48 AM> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Dear Renu ji:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > From a specific relationships angle, 7HL in 11H implies> > gain of> > > > > > > > > relationships, spouse, partners etc - so 'extra' partners> > could be a> > > > > > > > > signification of 7HL in 11H. Retrograde planet means> > significations are> > > > > > > held> > > > > > > > > latent - and are difficult to get expressed unless there> > is effort on> > > > > > > part> > > > > > > > > of the native. So as a result seems like the native> > entered into> > > > > > > > > relationships slightly late in life. Retro is not causing> > the> > > > > > > immorality but> > > > > > > > > has made the need for extra partners/passion more> > pronounced!!> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > The immorality is caused by Ma-Sa aspect; Remember this> > harm is going> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > happen irrespective of Ma-Sa house lordship; even if they> > were lording> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > 7H. 7H is not able to utilize Ma/Sa energy.> > > > > > > > > Even if it was exalted Ma/Sa aspect, the result would have> > been the> > > > > > > same> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Thanks> > > > > > > > > Kiran> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<> > > > > > >> > http://in.mc946.mail./mc/compose?to=%40\> > > > > > > > > >,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > "renunw" <renunw@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > I have a typical example of a Mithuna lagna native where> > Jupiter is> > > > > > > > > placed in 11th house and native leading an immoral life.> > Here Ju is> > > > > > > > > retrograde. Besides Sa's 3rd aspect and Ma's 8th aspect> > falls on this> > > > > > > Ju.> > > > > > > > > The native is married to a girl 14 years younger to him.> > Now he has an> > > > > > > extra> > > > > > > > > marital relationship with a girl 22 years younger to him!> > Is this the> > > > > > > work> > > > > > > > > of retro Ju, the 7th lord in 11th house?> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > blessings,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Renu> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<> > > > > > >> > http://in.mc946.mail./mc/compose?to=%40\> > > > > > > > > >,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Manoj Kumar <mouji99@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Those who consider that Upachaya houses are houses of> > expansion and> > > > > > > > > requested to answer a small question. Jupiter as lord of> > 7th house,> > > > > > > goes to> > > > > > > > > 11th house and now what would this placement of Jupiter> > mean. Say for> > > > > > > > > Mithuna lagna.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Mouji> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> >>This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam ji,

 

Your random thoughts are much appreciated and make sense.

 

Welcome back after a long break. I was certainly missing your sanity

here...

 

regards,

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

, neelam gupta

<neelamgupta07 wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar ji, Sheevani ji,

>

> I think the terminology may be misleading, only a deeper understanding

> can reveal the truth.

>

> I do not think we should think of ASURAs the way we do now, almost

> equating them with demons or linking them up with a sinister quality

> which may not be there in them.

> Karna Parva of Mahabharta identifies MAYA, the celestial artificer as

> Asura who knows no fatugue or decay and is worshipped by Daityas and

> Danavas. He is the one who seems to have created the three cities

> (Tripura)!

>

> By this logic I guess Devatas may be NOT-MAYA and Asuras may be MAYA!

> We can extend it to planets!

>

> I am no expert on ancient texts and vedas. These are just some random

thoughts.

>

> Regards

> Neelam

>

>

>

> On 18 April 2010 20:24, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > Agreed Sheevani ji.

> >

> > Thanks for replying back..

> >

> > regards,

> >

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> > , " Sheevani "

> > sheevani147@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Bhaskar ji,

> > >

> > > Namaste,

> > >

> > > Being sag lagna, my upachay lords are also Asuras.. sometimes in

life

> > u have to be cruel to be kind.

> > >

> > > Always remember, the Soul is always pure, but it is human nature

to

> > look for classifications and create divisions, asura-sura,

male-female

> > > weak-strong, high-low, good-bad, benefic-malefic etc etc.

> > >

> > > Concepts of mind are limited, hence we see in piece-meal, and

allocate

> > things in small boxes in the mind. Vishalta( overview) comes from

the

> > higher mind.

> > >

> > > warmest regards

> > > Sheevani

> > >

> > >

> > > , " Bhaskar "

> > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > dear Sheevani ji

> > > >

> > > > Am learning new things daily. Now I realised why some people

find me

> > as " Asura " . I have my upachaya Lords in their own houses in my

chart, so

> > strong..

> > > >

> > > > regards/Bhaskar.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , " Sheevani "

> > <sheevani147@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Neelam ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you so much for your explanations. It is always good

> > practice to revisit our assuptions. especially when it comes to the

> > basics.

> > > > >

> > > > > I was thinking along the lines ,, with leo lagna, all the

upachaya

> > lords belong to the asura group, in cancer, it is a mixed bag, and

with

> > aquarious, upacharya lords are the sura(deva) group

> > > > > In determing the fruits of the dasha and antra dasha period,

this

> > relationship with the lagna also comes into play.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sorry the mind does go into tangent from time to time.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for directing it back to base..

> > > > >

> > > > > warmest regards

> > > > > Sheevani

> > > > > , neelam gupta

> > <neelamgupta07@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Sheevaniji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As per my humble understanding:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. what if there are no planets in any of the Upchay houses?

> > > > > > As you know plants show us the focus on a house.

Nonetheless, it

> > is the

> > > > > > lords who are always responsible for their houses. The

planet in

> > the house

> > > > > > may or may not be good for its significations, but the lord

> > shall always

> > > > > > promote the house to the best of its ability. The principles

of

> > judgment

> > > > > > remain the same, only we are looking for factors for upchay

and

> > synthesizing

> > > > > > the results. We have to look for upchay lords, their

strength in

> > vargas,

> > > > > > planets in upchay whether they support upchay or resist

upchay,

> > aspects,

> > > > > > etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2, Is it better to have the upchay houses being owned by

same

> > group of

> > > > > > planets, like asura and sura group. eg cancer lagna, u get

mixed

> > group, with

> > > > > > jupiter and mars owning 6,10 H and mercury and venus owning

3

> > and 11H.

> > > > > > Like-minded people and strong teams always work better.

Isn't

> > it? But in

> > > > > > astrology, there are always two faces of a coin! :-)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3. We know that malefic planets give more material benefits

in

> > upachay

> > > > > > houses, what effect does lordships contribute.

> > > > > > Houses present the environment for planets to work. Lords

are

> > responsible

> > > > > > for the results of the house as per their nature and

> > significations. It

> > > > > > would be lords to actually promote upchay through the upchay

> > houses. Just

> > > > > > like Rajyogas are not possible without PAC connections

between

> > kona-trikona,

> > > > > > upchay yogas (if I may call them) are not possible without

PAC

> > connection

> > > > > > between Upchay lords and planets in Upchay. Malefics may

give

> > material

> > > > > > gains, but I think Upchay is a very personal and individual

> > phenomenon,

> > > > > > pertaining to progress of soul.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > First and foremost we must be clear what upchay has been

granted

> > in Prarabdh

> > > > > > to a person by checking the upchay lords and their

placements.

> > Its like

> > > > > > considering a natal promise of Upchay, then dashas and

transits,

> > etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hope I am clear.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > Neelam

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 18 April 2010 17:02, Sheevani <sheevani147@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Neelam ji,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaste,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thank you for your clear and logical imput on upachaya

house.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Might I ask a couple of questions for further

clarification

> > and

> > > > > > > understanding..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1. what if there are no planets in any of the Upchay

houses?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2, Is it better to have the upchay houses being owned by

same

> > group of

> > > > > > > planets, like asura and sura group. eg cancer lagna, u get

> > mixed group, with

> > > > > > > jupiter and mars owning 6,10 H and mercury and venus

owning 3

> > and 11H.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 3. We know that malefic planets give more material

benefits in

> > upachay

> > > > > > > houses, what effect does lordships contribute.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > warmest regards

> > > > > > > Sheevani

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

> >

<%40yaho\

\

> > ogroups.com>,

> > > > > > > neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I think it is important to understand what UPCHAY is? It

is

> > growth,

> > > > > > > > collection, accumulation. 3/6/10/11 have been given to

us as

> > our upchaya

> > > > > > > > houses.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > For lagna or self, the effort and initiation of 3rd

house

> > has to go

> > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > the grind of 6th, supported by karma in 10th, the

> > growth/accumulation

> > > > > > > > results in the 11th. Upchay is not possible in a single

> > house. One has to

> > > > > > > > turn the full wheel through the four houses to see the

> > upchay for a

> > > > > > > person.

> > > > > > > > Upchay for self is sum total of all experiences of a

> > lifetime as its is

> > > > > > > > assigned to self. The total collection would include

> > portions given by

> > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > areas. Where upchay is more in a particular lifetime

would

> > be shown by

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > planets influencing these houses and their lorships.

This

> > comes from the

> > > > > > > > prarabdh and decides by the previous karmas.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > However, if you take out 10 from the scheme, you are

left

> > with

> > > > > > > trishadaya!

> > > > > > > > It is important to remember that 10th plays the crucial

role

> > of

> > > > > > > converting

> > > > > > > > trichadaya into upchaya. Good karmas would lead to good

> > upchay and bad

> > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > lead to bad!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Another important point is not to mix the upchay for

lagna

> > (3/6/10/11)

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > other houses. Each house will have its own upchay

sthans. 7L

> > in 11H is

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > in upchay sthan for 7th. It can only give a multiplicity

of

> > 7H marriages

> > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > virtue of 11H results. Let us not confuse it with

upchay. A

> > person who

> > > > > > > > marries once expends his resources on one wife, if he

> > married twice, he

> > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > on 2 wives – means double spending! Where's the

upchay

> > for self in such a

> > > > > > > > case? Upchaya for marriage would be 9/12/4/5 which means

a

> > marriage

> > > > > > > > initiated and solemnized in 9H and passed the strifes in

> > 12th where we

> > > > > > > spend

> > > > > > > > ourselves in marriage and add good karma or domestic

sukh to

> > it so that

> > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > accumulate its results or reap the rewards of getting

good

> > progeny in 5H!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Hope this makes sense.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > Neelam

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > On 17 April 2010 12:28, chiranjiv mehta <vchiranjiv@>

wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Moujiramji, Kiran Ramaji and all,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > IMHO :

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 7th in 11th upachaya house - increases the benefits to

the

> > 7th house

> > > > > > > > > significations.

> > > > > > > > > Since we are talking about the favourite signification

of

> > partners - it

> > > > > > > > > means gains to the partners.

> > > > > > > > > Will it mean that the Jataka enjoys many partners ? -

That

> > depends on

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > other houses like 1st house, 1HL etc. If they are

aspected

> > by

> > > > > > > restraining

> > > > > > > > > graha' aspect positioning or other yogas then he may

not

> > enjoy the

> > > > > > > > > multiplicity of enjoyments of 7th house.

> > > > > > > > > Conversely a person's 1HL and other things may be

spoilt

> > and the 7th

> > > > > > > > > house/lord barren, yet that will not prevent him from

> > Purushartha - you

> > > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > what I mean.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Everybody has a potential to have more partners -

depends

> > on all

> > > > > > > factors if

> > > > > > > > > he is able to.

> > > > > > > > > All factors 7,11,1,5,8,12 etc.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Chiranjiv Mehta

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- On *Sat, 17/4/10, kiran.rama <kiran.rama@>* wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > kiran.rama <kiran.rama@>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Re: Ve vs. Me vs.

Ju

> > in 8th house

> > > > > > > > > (Saravali)

> > > > > > > > > To:

> >

<%40yaho\

\

> > ogroups.com>

> > > > > > > > > Saturday, 17 April, 2010, 11:48 AM

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Renu ji:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > From a specific relationships angle, 7HL in 11H

implies

> > gain of

> > > > > > > > > relationships, spouse, partners etc - so 'extra'

partners

> > could be a

> > > > > > > > > signification of 7HL in 11H. Retrograde planet means

> > significations are

> > > > > > > held

> > > > > > > > > latent - and are difficult to get expressed unless

there

> > is effort on

> > > > > > > part

> > > > > > > > > of the native. So as a result seems like the native

> > entered into

> > > > > > > > > relationships slightly late in life. Retro is not

causing

> > the

> > > > > > > immorality but

> > > > > > > > > has made the need for extra partners/passion more

> > pronounced!!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The immorality is caused by Ma-Sa aspect; Remember

this

> > harm is going

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > happen irrespective of Ma-Sa house lordship; even if

they

> > were lording

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > 7H. 7H is not able to utilize Ma/Sa energy.

> > > > > > > > > Even if it was exalted Ma/Sa aspect, the result would

have

> > been the

> > > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > > Kiran

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<

> > > > > > >

> >

http://in.mc946.mail./mc/compose?to=%40\

\

> >

> > > > > > > >,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > " renunw " <renunw@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I have a typical example of a Mithuna lagna native

where

> > Jupiter is

> > > > > > > > > placed in 11th house and native leading an immoral

life.

> > Here Ju is

> > > > > > > > > retrograde. Besides Sa's 3rd aspect and Ma's 8th

aspect

> > falls on this

> > > > > > > Ju.

> > > > > > > > > The native is married to a girl 14 years younger to

him.

> > Now he has an

> > > > > > > extra

> > > > > > > > > marital relationship with a girl 22 years younger to

him!

> > Is this the

> > > > > > > work

> > > > > > > > > of retro Ju, the 7th lord in 11th house?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > blessings,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Renu

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<

> > > > > > >

> >

http://in.mc946.mail./mc/compose?to=%40\

\

> >

> > > > > > > >,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Manoj Kumar <mouji99@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Those who consider that Upachaya houses are houses

of

> > expansion and

> > > > > > > > > requested to answer a small question. Jupiter as lord

of

> > 7th house,

> > > > > > > goes to

> > > > > > > > > 11th house and now what would this placement of

Jupiter

> > mean. Say for

> > > > > > > > > Mithuna lagna.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Mouji

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskar ji,Thanks.  It is indeed nice to be back amongst you all. I had been away for a short break and luckily my tickets were booked for just a day before the volcano showed its wrath and the chaos of flights took place. Otherwise I would've been stranded in Europe. :-)

RegardsNeelamOn 19 April 2010 12:51, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Neelam ji,

 

Your random thoughts are much appreciated and make sense.

 

Welcome back after a long break. I was certainly missing your sanity

here...

 

regards,

 

Bhaskar.

 

, neelam gupta

<neelamgupta07 wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar ji, Sheevani ji,

>

> I think the terminology may be misleading, only a deeper understanding

> can reveal the truth.

>

> I do not think we should think of ASURAs the way we do now, almost

> equating them with demons or linking them up with a sinister quality

> which may not be there in them.

> Karna Parva of Mahabharta identifies MAYA, the celestial artificer as

> Asura who knows no fatugue or decay and is worshipped by Daityas and

> Danavas. He is the one who seems to have created the three cities

> (Tripura)!

>

> By this logic I guess Devatas may be NOT-MAYA and Asuras may be MAYA!

> We can extend it to planets!

>

> I am no expert on ancient texts and vedas. These are just some random

thoughts.

>

> Regards

> Neelam

>

>

>

> On 18 April 2010 20:24, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > Agreed Sheevani ji.

> >

> > Thanks for replying back..

> >

> > regards,

> >

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> > , " Sheevani "

> > sheevani147@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Bhaskar ji,

> > >

> > > Namaste,

> > >

> > > Being sag lagna, my upachay lords are also Asuras.. sometimes in

life

> > u have to be cruel to be kind.

> > >

> > > Always remember, the Soul is always pure, but it is human nature

to

> > look for classifications and create divisions, asura-sura,

male-female

> > > weak-strong, high-low, good-bad, benefic-malefic etc etc.

> > >

> > > Concepts of mind are limited, hence we see in piece-meal, and

allocate

> > things in small boxes in the mind. Vishalta( overview) comes from

the

> > higher mind.

> > >

> > > warmest regards

> > > Sheevani

> > >

> > >

> > > , " Bhaskar "

> > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > dear Sheevani ji

> > > >

> > > > Am learning new things daily. Now I realised why some people

find me

> > as " Asura " . I have my upachaya Lords in their own houses in my

chart, so

> > strong..

> > > >

> > > > regards/Bhaskar.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , " Sheevani "

> > <sheevani147@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Neelam ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you so much for your explanations. It is always good

> > practice to revisit our assuptions. especially when it comes to the

> > basics.

> > > > >

> > > > > I was thinking along the lines ,, with leo lagna, all the

upachaya

> > lords belong to the asura group, in cancer, it is a mixed bag, and

with

> > aquarious, upacharya lords are the sura(deva) group

> > > > > In determing the fruits of the dasha and antra dasha period,

this

> > relationship with the lagna also comes into play.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sorry the mind does go into tangent from time to time.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for directing it back to base..

> > > > >

> > > > > warmest regards

> > > > > Sheevani

> > > > > , neelam gupta

> > <neelamgupta07@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Sheevaniji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As per my humble understanding:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. what if there are no planets in any of the Upchay houses?

> > > > > > As you know plants show us the focus on a house.

Nonetheless, it

> > is the

> > > > > > lords who are always responsible for their houses. The

planet in

> > the house

> > > > > > may or may not be good for its significations, but the lord

> > shall always

> > > > > > promote the house to the best of its ability. The principles

of

> > judgment

> > > > > > remain the same, only we are looking for factors for upchay

and

> > synthesizing

> > > > > > the results. We have to look for upchay lords, their

strength in

> > vargas,

> > > > > > planets in upchay whether they support upchay or resist

upchay,

> > aspects,

> > > > > > etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2, Is it better to have the upchay houses being owned by

same

> > group of

> > > > > > planets, like asura and sura group. eg cancer lagna, u get

mixed

> > group, with

> > > > > > jupiter and mars owning 6,10 H and mercury and venus owning

3

> > and 11H.

> > > > > > Like-minded people and strong teams always work better.

Isn't

> > it? But in

> > > > > > astrology, there are always two faces of a coin! :-)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3. We know that malefic planets give more material benefits

in

> > upachay

> > > > > > houses, what effect does lordships contribute.

> > > > > > Houses present the environment for planets to work. Lords

are

> > responsible

> > > > > > for the results of the house as per their nature and

> > significations. It

> > > > > > would be lords to actually promote upchay through the upchay

> > houses. Just

> > > > > > like Rajyogas are not possible without PAC connections

between

> > kona-trikona,

> > > > > > upchay yogas (if I may call them) are not possible without

PAC

> > connection

> > > > > > between Upchay lords and planets in Upchay. Malefics may

give

> > material

> > > > > > gains, but I think Upchay is a very personal and individual

> > phenomenon,

> > > > > > pertaining to progress of soul.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > First and foremost we must be clear what upchay has been

granted

> > in Prarabdh

> > > > > > to a person by checking the upchay lords and their

placements.

> > Its like

> > > > > > considering a natal promise of Upchay, then dashas and

transits,

> > etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hope I am clear.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > Neelam

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 18 April 2010 17:02, Sheevani <sheevani147@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Neelam ji,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaste,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thank you for your clear and logical imput on upachaya

house.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Might I ask a couple of questions for further

clarification

> > and

> > > > > > > understanding..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1. what if there are no planets in any of the Upchay

houses?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2, Is it better to have the upchay houses being owned by

same

> > group of

> > > > > > > planets, like asura and sura group. eg cancer lagna, u get

> > mixed group, with

> > > > > > > jupiter and mars owning 6,10 H and mercury and venus

owning 3

> > and 11H.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 3. We know that malefic planets give more material

benefits in

> > upachay

> > > > > > > houses, what effect does lordships contribute.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > warmest regards

> > > > > > > Sheevani

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

> >

<%40yaho\

\

> > ogroups.com>,

> > > > > > > neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I think it is important to understand what UPCHAY is? It

is

> > growth,

> > > > > > > > collection, accumulation. 3/6/10/11 have been given to

us as

> > our upchaya

> > > > > > > > houses.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > For lagna or self, the effort and initiation of 3rd

house

> > has to go

> > > > > > > through

> > > > > > > > the grind of 6th, supported by karma in 10th, the

> > growth/accumulation

> > > > > > > > results in the 11th. Upchay is not possible in a single

> > house. One has to

> > > > > > > > turn the full wheel through the four houses to see the

> > upchay for a

> > > > > > > person.

> > > > > > > > Upchay for self is sum total of all experiences of a

> > lifetime as its is

> > > > > > > > assigned to self. The total collection would include

> > portions given by

> > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > areas. Where upchay is more in a particular lifetime

would

> > be shown by

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > planets influencing these houses and their lorships.

This

> > comes from the

> > > > > > > > prarabdh and decides by the previous karmas.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > However, if you take out 10 from the scheme, you are

left

> > with

> > > > > > > trishadaya!

> > > > > > > > It is important to remember that 10th plays the crucial

role

> > of

> > > > > > > converting

> > > > > > > > trichadaya into upchaya. Good karmas would lead to good

> > upchay and bad

> > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > lead to bad!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Another important point is not to mix the upchay for

lagna

> > (3/6/10/11)

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > other houses. Each house will have its own upchay

sthans. 7L

> > in 11H is

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > in upchay sthan for 7th. It can only give a multiplicity

of

> > 7H marriages

> > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > virtue of 11H results. Let us not confuse it with

upchay. A

> > person who

> > > > > > > > marries once expends his resources on one wife, if he

> > married twice, he

> > > > > > > does

> > > > > > > > on 2 wives – means double spending! Where's the

upchay

> > for self in such a

> > > > > > > > case? Upchaya for marriage would be 9/12/4/5 which means

a

> > marriage

> > > > > > > > initiated and solemnized in 9H and passed the strifes in

> > 12th where we

> > > > > > > spend

> > > > > > > > ourselves in marriage and add good karma or domestic

sukh to

> > it so that

> > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > accumulate its results or reap the rewards of getting

good

> > progeny in 5H!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Hope this makes sense.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > > Neelam

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > On 17 April 2010 12:28, chiranjiv mehta <vchiranjiv@>

wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Moujiramji, Kiran Ramaji and all,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > IMHO :

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 7th in 11th upachaya house - increases the benefits to

the

> > 7th house

> > > > > > > > > significations.

> > > > > > > > > Since we are talking about the favourite signification

of

> > partners - it

> > > > > > > > > means gains to the partners.

> > > > > > > > > Will it mean that the Jataka enjoys many partners ? -

That

> > depends on

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > other houses like 1st house, 1HL etc. If they are

aspected

> > by

> > > > > > > restraining

> > > > > > > > > graha' aspect positioning or other yogas then he may

not

> > enjoy the

> > > > > > > > > multiplicity of enjoyments of 7th house.

> > > > > > > > > Conversely a person's 1HL and other things may be

spoilt

> > and the 7th

> > > > > > > > > house/lord barren, yet that will not prevent him from

> > Purushartha - you

> > > > > > > know

> > > > > > > > > what I mean.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Everybody has a potential to have more partners -

depends

> > on all

> > > > > > > factors if

> > > > > > > > > he is able to.

> > > > > > > > > All factors 7,11,1,5,8,12 etc.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Chiranjiv Mehta

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- On *Sat, 17/4/10, kiran.rama <kiran.rama@>* wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > kiran.rama <kiran.rama@>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Re: Ve vs. Me vs.

Ju

> > in 8th house

> > > > > > > > > (Saravali)

> > > > > > > > > To:

> >

<%40yaho\

\

> > ogroups.com>

> > > > > > > > > Saturday, 17 April, 2010, 11:48 AM

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Renu ji:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > From a specific relationships angle, 7HL in 11H

implies

> > gain of

> > > > > > > > > relationships, spouse, partners etc - so 'extra'

partners

> > could be a

> > > > > > > > > signification of 7HL in 11H. Retrograde planet means

> > significations are

> > > > > > > held

> > > > > > > > > latent - and are difficult to get expressed unless

there

> > is effort on

> > > > > > > part

> > > > > > > > > of the native. So as a result seems like the native

> > entered into

> > > > > > > > > relationships slightly late in life. Retro is not

causing

> > the

> > > > > > > immorality but

> > > > > > > > > has made the need for extra partners/passion more

> > pronounced!!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The immorality is caused by Ma-Sa aspect; Remember

this

> > harm is going

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > happen irrespective of Ma-Sa house lordship; even if

they

> > were lording

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > 7H. 7H is not able to utilize Ma/Sa energy.

> > > > > > > > > Even if it was exalted Ma/Sa aspect, the result would

have

> > been the

> > > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > > Kiran

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<

> > > > > > >

> >

http://in.mc946.mail./mc/compose?to=%40\

\

> >

> > > > > > > >,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > " renunw " <renunw@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I have a typical example of a Mithuna lagna native

where

> > Jupiter is

> > > > > > > > > placed in 11th house and native leading an immoral

life.

> > Here Ju is

> > > > > > > > > retrograde. Besides Sa's 3rd aspect and Ma's 8th

aspect

> > falls on this

> > > > > > > Ju.

> > > > > > > > > The native is married to a girl 14 years younger to

him.

> > Now he has an

> > > > > > > extra

> > > > > > > > > marital relationship with a girl 22 years younger to

him!

> > Is this the

> > > > > > > work

> > > > > > > > > of retro Ju, the 7th lord in 11th house?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > blessings,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Renu

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<

> > > > > > >

> >

http://in.mc946.mail./mc/compose?to=%40\

\

> >

> > > > > > > >,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Manoj Kumar <mouji99@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Those who consider that Upachaya houses are houses

of

> > expansion and

> > > > > > > > > requested to answer a small question. Jupiter as lord

of

> > 7th house,

> > > > > > > goes to

> > > > > > > > > 11th house and now what would this placement of

Jupiter

> > mean. Say for

> > > > > > > > > Mithuna lagna.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Mouji

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Renu ji,

 

Before we pass any judgement on this chart, lets try to understand the chart first.

 

i. He could be 3 or 5 brothers and sisters.

ii. He would have started working early in life, anytime after the age of 20 years.

iii. Is he involved in a business/work with his father?

iv. Marriage seems to be late in his case.

v. Was his marriage in a known family or with a known girl?

 

I have reasons to suspect fidelity of this person, but the reason surely is not Jupiter in the 11th house.

 

regards,

 

Mouji

 

 

 

renunw <renunw Sent: Sat, April 17, 2010 11:38:50 PM Re: Ve vs. Me vs. Ju in 8th house (Saravali)

Dear Manoj ji,Here it is....I have noticed that marriage with natives who has Sun in 7th house is not easy. This chart has Sun in 7H...another minus point.Natal ChartJanuary 6, 1965Time: 18:20:00Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)Place: 80 E 38' 00", 7 N 17' 00"Kandy, Sri Lankablessings,Renuancient_indian_ astrology, Manoj Kumar <mouji99 > wrote:>> Please post the details Renu ji.> > regards,> > Manoj> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> renunw <renunw> ancient_indian_ astrology> Fri, April 16, 2010 12:02:12 PM> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Ve vs. Me vs. Ju in 8th house (Saravali)> > Â > Dear Manoj ji,> > I have a typical example of a Mithuna lagna native where Jupiter is placed in 11th house and native leading an immoral life. Here Ju is retrograde. Besides Sa's 3rd aspect and Ma's 8th aspect falls on this Ju. The native is married to a girl 14 years younger to him. Now he has an extra marital relationship with a girl 22 years younger to him! Is this the work of retro Ju, the 7th lord in 11th house?> > blessings,> > Renu> > ancient_indian_ astrology, Manoj Kumar <mouji99@ > wrote:> >> > Those who consider that Upachaya houses are houses of expansion and

requested to answer a small question. Jupiter as lord of 7th house, goes to 11th house and now what would this placement of Jupiter mean. Say for Mithuna lagna.> > Â > > regards,> > Â > > Mouji> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Chakraborty ji,There is no confusion here, in fact, Sheevani ji has brought forth an interesting angle.Since upchaya is about growth and vridhhi, it makes sense to look at the kind of upchaya a native is destined to get. This is just one way of looking at these houses. There would be many other ways.

e.g. for Aries native, Gemini in 3rd house would show that a native would put in efforts signified by gemini. If there is any influence on 3rd house by way of placement/aspect, we can see how the efforts would be modified, and for better or worse depending on the nature of infuence. Sura/Asura is just a background note which you may like to pull out for an appropriate analysis.

Benefic/malefic is again very subjective and this terminology is always misleading. Both do their work as per their assigned roles. Sun is not a natural malefic, only kroora. Mars is malefic but in Deva team. Venus is a great benefic, but in asura team.

Sura team promotes dharma and moksha while asura team promotes artha and kaama. One has to carefully weigh the permutations and combinations when planets work together.Hope this helps.RegardsNeelam

Have you ever noticed that On 19 April 2010 09:14, Chakraborty, PL <CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Neelam-ji,

 

I am somehow getting confused from this discussion of Upachaya & ASURA.

 

It is not necessary that  lagna shall have either ALL Sura / Asura lords as Upachaya lords.

 

Also, all Sura lords need not be benefic ...neither all ASURA be malefic.

 

Sun, Mars are malefic even though they belong to Sura Group and they do quite

well in Upachaya houses.

 

regards

 

 

Chakraborty

 

 

 

On Behalf Of gopalakrishnaMonday, April 19, 2010 9:03 AM Subject: Re: Ve vs. Me vs. Ju in 8th house (Saravali)

 

Dear Neelam ji,//By this logic I guess Devatas may be NOT-MAYA and Asuras may be MAYA!We can extend it to planets!//good point.It is said jup is deva guru while ven is asura guru.Further extending jup is spiritual while ven is materialistic.We could check these two in vimsamsa and find out the nature of any given native.This is my personal opinion,those who may not agree can ignore my ignorance.....Warm regards,gopi. , neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar ji, Sheevani ji,> > I think the terminology may be misleading, only a deeper understanding> can reveal the truth.> > I do not think we should think of ASURAs the way we do now, almost> equating them with demons or linking them up with a sinister quality> which may not be there in them.> Karna Parva of Mahabharta identifies MAYA, the celestial artificer as> Asura who knows no fatugue or decay and is worshipped by Daityas and> Danavas. He is the one who seems to have created the three cities> (Tripura)!> > By this logic I guess Devatas may be NOT-MAYA and Asuras may be MAYA!> We can extend it to planets!> > I am no expert on ancient texts and vedas. These are just some random thoughts.> > Regards> Neelam> > > > On 18 April 2010 20:24, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish wrote:> >> >> >> > Agreed Sheevani ji.> >> > Thanks for replying back..> >> > regards,> >> > Bhaskar.> >> > , " Sheevani " > > sheevani147@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Bhaskar ji,> > >> > > Namaste,> > >> > > Being sag lagna, my upachay lords are also Asuras.. sometimes in life> > u have to be cruel to be kind.> > >> > > Always remember, the Soul is always pure, but it is human nature to> > look for classifications and create divisions, asura-sura, male-female> > > weak-strong, high-low, good-bad, benefic-malefic etc etc.> > >> > > Concepts of mind are limited, hence we see in piece-meal, and allocate> > things in small boxes in the mind. Vishalta( overview) comes from the> > higher mind.> > >> > > warmest regards> > > Sheevani> > >> > >> > > , " Bhaskar " > > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> > > >> > > > dear Sheevani ji> > > >> > > > Am learning new things daily. Now I realised why some people find me> > as " Asura " . I have my upachaya Lords in their own houses in my chart, so> > strong..> > > >> > > > regards/Bhaskar.> > > >> > > >> > > > , " Sheevani " > > <sheevani147@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Neelam ji,> > > > >> > > > > Namaste.> > > > >> > > > > Thank you so much for your explanations. It is always good> > practice to revisit our assuptions. especially when it comes to the> > basics.> > > > >> > > > > I was thinking along the lines ,, with leo lagna, all the upachaya> > lords belong to the asura group, in cancer, it is a mixed bag, and with> > aquarious, upacharya lords are the sura(deva) group> > > > > In determing the fruits of the dasha and antra dasha period, this> > relationship with the lagna also comes into play.> > > > >> > > > > Sorry the mind does go into tangent from time to time.> > > > >> > > > > Thanks for directing it back to base..> > > > >> > > > > warmest regards> > > > > Sheevani> > > > > , neelam gupta> > <neelamgupta07@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Sheevaniji,> > > > > >> > > > > > As per my humble understanding:> > > > > >> > > > > > 1. what if there are no planets in any of the Upchay houses?> > > > > > As you know plants show us the focus on a house. Nonetheless, it> > is the> > > > > > lords who are always responsible for their houses. The planet in> > the house> > > > > > may or may not be good for its significations, but the lord> > shall always> > > > > > promote the house to the best of its ability. The principles of> > judgment> > > > > > remain the same, only we are looking for factors for upchay and> > synthesizing> > > > > > the results. We have to look for upchay lords, their strength in> > vargas,> > > > > > planets in upchay whether they support upchay or resist upchay,> > aspects,> > > > > > etc.> > > > > >> > > > > > 2, Is it better to have the upchay houses being owned by same> > group of> > > > > > planets, like asura and sura group. eg cancer lagna, u get mixed> > group, with> > > > > > jupiter and mars owning 6,10 H and mercury and venus owning 3> > and 11H.> > > > > > Like-minded people and strong teams always work better. Isn't> > it? But in> > > > > > astrology, there are always two faces of a coin! :-)> > > > > >> > > > > > 3. We know that malefic planets give more material benefits in> > upachay> > > > > > houses, what effect does lordships contribute.> > > > > > Houses present the environment for planets to work. Lords are> > responsible> > > > > > for the results of the house as per their nature and> > significations. It> > > > > > would be lords to actually promote upchay through the upchay> > houses. Just> > > > > > like Rajyogas are not possible without PAC connections between> > kona-trikona,> > > > > > upchay yogas (if I may call them) are not possible without PAC> > connection> > > > > > between Upchay lords and planets in Upchay. Malefics may give> > material> > > > > > gains, but I think Upchay is a very personal and individual> > phenomenon,> > > > > > pertaining to progress of soul.> > > > > >> > > > > > First and foremost we must be clear what upchay has been granted> > in Prarabdh> > > > > > to a person by checking the upchay lords and their placements.> > Its like> > > > > > considering a natal promise of Upchay, then dashas and transits,> > etc.> > > > > >> > > > > > Hope I am clear.> > > > > >> > > > > > Regards> > > > > > Neelam> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > On 18 April 2010 17:02, Sheevani <sheevani147@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Neelam ji,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Namaste,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thank you for your clear and logical imput on upachaya house.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Might I ask a couple of questions for further clarification> > and> > > > > > > understanding..> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 1. what if there are no planets in any of the Upchay houses?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 2, Is it better to have the upchay houses being owned by same> > group of> > > > > > > planets, like asura and sura group. eg cancer lagna, u get> > mixed group, with> > > > > > > jupiter and mars owning 6,10 H and mercury and venus owning 3> > and 11H.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 3. We know that malefic planets give more material benefits in> > upachay> > > > > > > houses, what effect does lordships contribute.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > warmest regards> > > > > > > Sheevani> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > --- In> > <%40yaho\> > ogroups.com>,> > > > > > > neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear All,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I think it is important to understand what UPCHAY is? It is> > growth,> > > > > > > > collection, accumulation. 3/6/10/11 have been given to us as> > our upchaya> > > > > > > > houses.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > For lagna or self, the effort and initiation of 3rd house> > has to go> > > > > > > through> > > > > > > > the grind of 6th, supported by karma in 10th, the> > growth/accumulation> > > > > > > > results in the 11th. Upchay is not possible in a single> > house. One has to> > > > > > > > turn the full wheel through the four houses to see the> > upchay for a> > > > > > > person.> > > > > > > > Upchay for self is sum total of all experiences of a> > lifetime as its is> > > > > > > > assigned to self. The total collection would include> > portions given by> > > > > > > all> > > > > > > > areas. Where upchay is more in a particular lifetime would> > be shown by> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > planets influencing these houses and their lorships. This> > comes from the> > > > > > > > prarabdh and decides by the previous karmas.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > However, if you take out 10 from the scheme, you are left> > with> > > > > > > trishadaya!> > > > > > > > It is important to remember that 10th plays the crucial role> > of> > > > > > > converting> > > > > > > > trichadaya into upchaya. Good karmas would lead to good> > upchay and bad> > > > > > > would> > > > > > > > lead to bad!> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Another important point is not to mix the upchay for lagna> > (3/6/10/11)> > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > other houses. Each house will have its own upchay sthans. 7L> > in 11H is> > > > > > > not> > > > > > > > in upchay sthan for 7th. It can only give a multiplicity of> > 7H marriages> > > > > > > by> > > > > > > > virtue of 11H results. Let us not confuse it with upchay. A> > person who> > > > > > > > marries once expends his resources on one wife, if he> > married twice, he> > > > > > > does> > > > > > > > on 2 wives – means double spending! Where's the upchay> > for self in such a> > > > > > > > case? Upchaya for marriage would be 9/12/4/5 which means a> > marriage> > > > > > > > initiated and solemnized in 9H and passed the strifes in> > 12th where we> > > > > > > spend> > > > > > > > ourselves in marriage and add good karma or domestic sukh to> > it so that> > > > > > > we> > > > > > > > accumulate its results or reap the rewards of getting good> > progeny in 5H!> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Hope this makes sense.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > Neelam> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On 17 April 2010 12:28, chiranjiv mehta <vchiranjiv@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Dear Moujiramji, Kiran Ramaji and all,> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > IMHO :> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > 7th in 11th upachaya house - increases the benefits to the> > 7th house> > > > > > > > > significations.> > > > > > > > > Since we are talking about the favourite signification of> > partners - it> > > > > > > > > means gains to the partners.> > > > > > > > > Will it mean that the Jataka enjoys many partners ? - That> > depends on> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > other houses like 1st house, 1HL etc. If they are aspected> > by> > > > > > > restraining> > > > > > > > > graha' aspect positioning or other yogas then he may not> > enjoy the> > > > > > > > > multiplicity of enjoyments of 7th house.> > > > > > > > > Conversely a person's 1HL and other things may be spoilt> > and the 7th> > > > > > > > > house/lord barren, yet that will not prevent him from> > Purushartha - you> > > > > > > know> > > > > > > > > what I mean.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Everybody has a potential to have more partners - depends> > on all> > > > > > > factors if> > > > > > > > > he is able to.> > > > > > > > > All factors 7,11,1,5,8,12 etc.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Chiranjiv Mehta> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > --- On *Sat, 17/4/10, kiran.rama <kiran.rama@>* wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > kiran.rama <kiran.rama@>> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Re: Ve vs. Me vs. Ju> > in 8th house> > > > > > > > > (Saravali)> > > > > > > > > To:> > <%40yaho\> > ogroups.com>> > > > > > > > > Saturday, 17 April, 2010, 11:48 AM> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Dear Renu ji:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > From a specific relationships angle, 7HL in 11H implies> > gain of> > > > > > > > > relationships, spouse, partners etc - so 'extra' partners> > could be a> > > > > > > > > signification of 7HL in 11H. Retrograde planet means> > significations are> > > > > > > held> > > > > > > > > latent - and are difficult to get expressed unless there> > is effort on> > > > > > > part> > > > > > > > > of the native. So as a result seems like the native> > entered into> > > > > > > > > relationships slightly late in life. Retro is not causing> > the> > > > > > > immorality but> > > > > > > > > has made the need for extra partners/passion more> > pronounced!!> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > The immorality is caused by Ma-Sa aspect; Remember this> > harm is going> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > happen irrespective of Ma-Sa house lordship; even if they> > were lording> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > 7H. 7H is not able to utilize Ma/Sa energy.> > > > > > > > > Even if it was exalted Ma/Sa aspect, the result would have> > been the> > > > > > > same> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Thanks> > > > > > > > > Kiran> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<> > > > > > >> > http://in.mc946.mail./mc/compose?to=%40\> > > > > > > > > >,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > " renunw " <renunw@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Dear Manoj ji,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > I have a typical example of a Mithuna lagna native where> > Jupiter is> > > > > > > > > placed in 11th house and native leading an immoral life.> > Here Ju is> > > > > > > > > retrograde. Besides Sa's 3rd aspect and Ma's 8th aspect> > falls on this> > > > > > > Ju.> > > > > > > > > The native is married to a girl 14 years younger to him.> > Now he has an> > > > > > > extra> > > > > > > > > marital relationship with a girl 22 years younger to him!> > Is this the> > > > > > > work> > > > > > > > > of retro Ju, the 7th lord in 11th house?> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > blessings,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Renu> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<> > > > > > >> > http://in.mc946.mail./mc/compose?to=%40\> > > > > > > > > >,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Manoj Kumar <mouji99@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Those who consider that Upachaya houses are houses of> > expansion and> > > > > > > > > requested to answer a small question. Jupiter as lord of> > 7th house,> > > > > > > goes to> > > > > > > > > 11th house and now what would this placement of Jupiter> > mean. Say for> > > > > > > > > Mithuna lagna.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Mouji> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> >>This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.

[Guest guest]

Here are my thoughts on these questions:

 

1. what if there are no planets in any of the Upchay houses?

Both benefic and malefic planets do well in upachaya houses. However the

houses lorded by these planets will suffer in the 3rd, 6th houses - because

these are not benefic houses.

Having planets in a house energizes a house - If given a choice, better to

have benefics in trines/quadrants; whereas I would not mind malefics in upachaya

houses - because they do not harm the significations of the house and infact do

well there

 

2. Asura/sura group of planets in upachaya houses will not make any material

differences - ignore

 

3. Everything gives its effects in astrology - the stronger ones will be more

significant.

Planet in upachaya house like 10th is good for planet as well as the house it

lords

Cannot say the same for the 3rd and definitely not the 6th.

 

If a dusthana lord is in 10th house - e.g: 12th lord in 10th house it can mean

career debts from past life - so they will also give their effect

 

Thanks

Kiran

 

 

, neelam gupta

<neelamgupta07 wrote:

>

> Dear Sheevaniji,

>

> As per my humble understanding:

>

> 1. what if there are no planets in any of the Upchay houses?

> As you know plants show us the focus on a house. Nonetheless, it is the

> lords who are always responsible for their houses. The planet in the house

> may or may not be good for its significations, but the lord shall always

> promote the house to the best of its ability. The principles of judgment

> remain the same, only we are looking for factors for upchay and synthesizing

> the results. We have to look for upchay lords, their strength in vargas,

> planets in upchay whether they support upchay or resist upchay, aspects,

> etc.

>

> 2, Is it better to have the upchay houses being owned by same group of

> planets, like asura and sura group. eg cancer lagna, u get mixed group, with

> jupiter and mars owning 6,10 H and mercury and venus owning 3 and 11H.

> Like-minded people and strong teams always work better. Isn't it? But in

> astrology, there are always two faces of a coin! :-)

>

> 3. We know that malefic planets give more material benefits in upachay

> houses, what effect does lordships contribute.

> Houses present the environment for planets to work. Lords are responsible

> for the results of the house as per their nature and significations. It

> would be lords to actually promote upchay through the upchay houses. Just

> like Rajyogas are not possible without PAC connections between kona-trikona,

> upchay yogas (if I may call them) are not possible without PAC connection

> between Upchay lords and planets in Upchay. Malefics may give material

> gains, but I think Upchay is a very personal and individual phenomenon,

> pertaining to progress of soul.

>

> First and foremost we must be clear what upchay has been granted in Prarabdh

> to a person by checking the upchay lords and their placements. Its like

> considering a natal promise of Upchay, then dashas and transits, etc.

>

> Hope I am clear.

>

> Regards

> Neelam

>

>

> On 18 April 2010 17:02, Sheevani <sheevani147 wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Dear Neelam ji,

> >

> > Namaste,

> >

> > Thank you for your clear and logical imput on upachaya house.

> >

> > Might I ask a couple of questions for further clarification and

> > understanding..

> >

> > 1. what if there are no planets in any of the Upchay houses?

> >

> > 2, Is it better to have the upchay houses being owned by same group of

> > planets, like asura and sura group. eg cancer lagna, u get mixed group, with

> > jupiter and mars owning 6,10 H and mercury and venus owning 3 and 11H.

> >

> > 3. We know that malefic planets give more material benefits in upachay

> > houses, what effect does lordships contribute.

> >

> > warmest regards

> > Sheevani

> >

> >

> > --- In

<%40.\

com>,

> > neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > >

> > > I think it is important to understand what UPCHAY is? It is growth,

> > > collection, accumulation. 3/6/10/11 have been given to us as our upchaya

> > > houses.

> > >

> > > For lagna or self, the effort and initiation of 3rd house has to go

> > through

> > > the grind of 6th, supported by karma in 10th, the growth/accumulation

> > > results in the 11th. Upchay is not possible in a single house. One has to

> > > turn the full wheel through the four houses to see the upchay for a

> > person.

> > > Upchay for self is sum total of all experiences of a lifetime as its is

> > > assigned to self. The total collection would include portions given by

> > all

> > > areas. Where upchay is more in a particular lifetime would be shown by

> > the

> > > planets influencing these houses and their lorships. This comes from the

> > > prarabdh and decides by the previous karmas.

> > >

> > > However, if you take out 10 from the scheme, you are left with

> > trishadaya!

> > > It is important to remember that 10th plays the crucial role of

> > converting

> > > trichadaya into upchaya. Good karmas would lead to good upchay and bad

> > would

> > > lead to bad!

> > >

> > > Another important point is not to mix the upchay for lagna (3/6/10/11)

> > with

> > > other houses. Each house will have its own upchay sthans. 7L in 11H is

> > not

> > > in upchay sthan for 7th. It can only give a multiplicity of 7H marriages

> > by

> > > virtue of 11H results. Let us not confuse it with upchay. A person who

> > > marries once expends his resources on one wife, if he married twice, he

> > does

> > > on 2 wives – means double spending! Where's the upchay for self in such a

> > > case? Upchaya for marriage would be 9/12/4/5 which means a marriage

> > > initiated and solemnized in 9H and passed the strifes in 12th where we

> > spend

> > > ourselves in marriage and add good karma or domestic sukh to it so that

> > we

> > > accumulate its results or reap the rewards of getting good progeny in 5H!

> > >

> > > Hope this makes sense.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > > Neelam

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > On 17 April 2010 12:28, chiranjiv mehta <vchiranjiv@> wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Moujiramji, Kiran Ramaji and all,

> > > >

> > > > IMHO :

> > > >

> > > > 7th in 11th upachaya house - increases the benefits to the 7th house

> > > > significations.

> > > > Since we are talking about the favourite signification of partners - it

> > > > means gains to the partners.

> > > > Will it mean that the Jataka enjoys many partners ? - That depends on

> > the

> > > > other houses like 1st house, 1HL etc. If they are aspected by

> > restraining

> > > > graha' aspect positioning or other yogas then he may not enjoy the

> > > > multiplicity of enjoyments of 7th house.

> > > > Conversely a person's 1HL and other things may be spoilt and the 7th

> > > > house/lord barren, yet that will not prevent him from Purushartha - you

> > know

> > > > what I mean.

> > > >

> > > > Everybody has a potential to have more partners - depends on all

> > factors if

> > > > he is able to.

> > > > All factors 7,11,1,5,8,12 etc.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks & Regards

> > > >

> > > > Chiranjiv Mehta

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- On *Sat, 17/4/10, kiran.rama <kiran.rama@>* wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > kiran.rama <kiran.rama@>

> >

> > > >

> > > > Re: Ve vs. Me vs. Ju in 8th house

> > > > (Saravali)

> > > > To:

<%40.\

com>

> > > > Saturday, 17 April, 2010, 11:48 AM

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Renu ji:

> > > >

> > > > From a specific relationships angle, 7HL in 11H implies gain of

> > > > relationships, spouse, partners etc - so 'extra' partners could be a

> > > > signification of 7HL in 11H. Retrograde planet means significations are

> > held

> > > > latent - and are difficult to get expressed unless there is effort on

> > part

> > > > of the native. So as a result seems like the native entered into

> > > > relationships slightly late in life. Retro is not causing the

> > immorality but

> > > > has made the need for extra partners/passion more pronounced!!

> > > >

> > > > The immorality is caused by Ma-Sa aspect; Remember this harm is going

> > to

> > > > happen irrespective of Ma-Sa house lordship; even if they were lording

> > the

> > > > 7H. 7H is not able to utilize Ma/Sa energy.

> > > > Even if it was exalted Ma/Sa aspect, the result would have been the

> > same

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > > Kiran

> > > >

> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<

> >

http://in.mc946.mail./mc/compose?to=%40gro\

ups.com

> > >,

> >

> > > > " renunw " <renunw@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Manoj ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > I have a typical example of a Mithuna lagna native where Jupiter is

> > > > placed in 11th house and native leading an immoral life. Here Ju is

> > > > retrograde. Besides Sa's 3rd aspect and Ma's 8th aspect falls on this

> > Ju.

> > > > The native is married to a girl 14 years younger to him. Now he has an

> > extra

> > > > marital relationship with a girl 22 years younger to him! Is this the

> > work

> > > > of retro Ju, the 7th lord in 11th house?

> > > > >

> > > > > blessings,

> > > > >

> > > > > Renu

> > > > >

> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<

> >

http://in.mc946.mail./mc/compose?to=%40gro\

ups.com

> > >,

> >

> > > > Manoj Kumar <mouji99@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Those who consider that Upachaya houses are houses of expansion and

> > > > requested to answer a small question. Jupiter as lord of 7th house,

> > goes to

> > > > 11th house and now what would this placement of Jupiter mean. Say for

> > > > Mithuna lagna.

> > > > > >

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> > > > > > Mouji

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[Guest guest]

Upachaya Houses are only the directions through which one can change his Life through Self-efforts of Will.

The planets who own them and the planets placed in these houses are the sources,through which you get an oppurtunity to either make your Life better or make it worse.

The upachaya houses define your Kriyamana Karmas.

All rest theory is "Bakwaas".

Those who want to discuss with me with an open mind can do so, further...

Bhaskar.

 

, "kiran.rama" <kiran.rama wrote:>> Here are my thoughts on these questions:> > 1. what if there are no planets in any of the Upchay houses?> Both benefic and malefic planets do well in upachaya houses. However the houses lorded by these planets will suffer in the 3rd, 6th houses - because these are not benefic houses.> Having planets in a house energizes a house - If given a choice, better to have benefics in trines/quadrants; whereas I would not mind malefics in upachaya houses - because they do not harm the significations of the house and infact do well there> > 2. Asura/sura group of planets in upachaya houses will not make any material differences - ignore> > 3. Everything gives its effects in astrology - the stronger ones will be more significant.> Planet in upachaya house like 10th is good for planet as well as the house it lords> Cannot say the same for the 3rd and definitely not the 6th.> > If a dusthana lord is in 10th house - e.g: 12th lord in 10th house it can mean career debts from past life - so they will also give their effect> > Thanks> Kiran > > > , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@ wrote:> >> > Dear Sheevaniji,> > > > As per my humble understanding:> > > > 1. what if there are no planets in any of the Upchay houses?> > As you know plants show us the focus on a house. Nonetheless, it is the> > lords who are always responsible for their houses. The planet in the house> > may or may not be good for its significations, but the lord shall always> > promote the house to the best of its ability. The principles of judgment> > remain the same, only we are looking for factors for upchay and synthesizing> > the results. We have to look for upchay lords, their strength in vargas,> > planets in upchay whether they support upchay or resist upchay, aspects,> > etc.> > > > 2, Is it better to have the upchay houses being owned by same group of> > planets, like asura and sura group. eg cancer lagna, u get mixed group, with> > jupiter and mars owning 6,10 H and mercury and venus owning 3 and 11H.> > Like-minded people and strong teams always work better. Isn't it? But in> > astrology, there are always two faces of a coin! :-)> > > > 3. We know that malefic planets give more material benefits in upachay> > houses, what effect does lordships contribute.> > Houses present the environment for planets to work. Lords are responsible> > for the results of the house as per their nature and significations. It> > would be lords to actually promote upchay through the upchay houses. Just> > like Rajyogas are not possible without PAC connections between kona-trikona,> > upchay yogas (if I may call them) are not possible without PAC connection> > between Upchay lords and planets in Upchay. Malefics may give material> > gains, but I think Upchay is a very personal and individual phenomenon,> > pertaining to progress of soul.> > > > First and foremost we must be clear what upchay has been granted in Prarabdh> > to a person by checking the upchay lords and their placements. Its like> > considering a natal promise of Upchay, then dashas and transits, etc.> > > > Hope I am clear.> > > > Regards> > Neelam> > > > > > On 18 April 2010 17:02, Sheevani sheevani147@ wrote:> > > > >> > >> > > Dear Neelam ji,> > >> > > Namaste,> > >> > > Thank you for your clear and logical imput on upachaya house.> > >> > > Might I ask a couple of questions for further clarification and> > > understanding..> > >> > > 1. what if there are no planets in any of the Upchay houses?> > >> > > 2, Is it better to have the upchay houses being owned by same group of> > > planets, like asura and sura group. eg cancer lagna, u get mixed group, with> > > jupiter and mars owning 6,10 H and mercury and venus owning 3 and 11H.> > >> > > 3. We know that malefic planets give more material benefits in upachay> > > houses, what effect does lordships contribute.> > >> > > warmest regards> > > Sheevani> > >> > >> > > <%40>,> > > neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear All,> > > >> > > > I think it is important to understand what UPCHAY is? It is growth,> > > > collection, accumulation. 3/6/10/11 have been given to us as our upchaya> > > > houses.> > > >> > > > For lagna or self, the effort and initiation of 3rd house has to go> > > through> > > > the grind of 6th, supported by karma in 10th, the growth/accumulation> > > > results in the 11th. Upchay is not possible in a single house. One has to> > > > turn the full wheel through the four houses to see the upchay for a> > > person.> > > > Upchay for self is sum total of all experiences of a lifetime as its is> > > > assigned to self. The total collection would include portions given by> > > all> > > > areas. Where upchay is more in a particular lifetime would be shown by> > > the> > > > planets influencing these houses and their lorships. This comes from the> > > > prarabdh and decides by the previous karmas.> > > >> > > > However, if you take out 10 from the scheme, you are left with> > > trishadaya!> > > > It is important to remember that 10th plays the crucial role of> > > converting> > > > trichadaya into upchaya. Good karmas would lead to good upchay and bad> > > would> > > > lead to bad!> > > >> > > > Another important point is not to mix the upchay for lagna (3/6/10/11)> > > with> > > > other houses. Each house will have its own upchay sthans. 7L in 11H is> > > not> > > > in upchay sthan for 7th. It can only give a multiplicity of 7H marriages> > > by> > > > virtue of 11H results. Let us not confuse it with upchay. A person who> > > > marries once expends his resources on one wife, if he married twice, he> > > does> > > > on 2 wives – means double spending! Where's the upchay for self in such a> > > > case? Upchaya for marriage would be 9/12/4/5 which means a marriage> > > > initiated and solemnized in 9H and passed the strifes in 12th where we> > > spend> > > > ourselves in marriage and add good karma or domestic sukh to it so that> > > we> > > > accumulate its results or reap the rewards of getting good progeny in 5H!> > > >> > > > Hope this makes sense.> > > >> > > > Regards> > > > Neelam> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > On 17 April 2010 12:28, chiranjiv mehta <vchiranjiv@> wrote:> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Dear Moujiramji, Kiran Ramaji and all,> > > > >> > > > > IMHO :> > > > >> > > > > 7th in 11th upachaya house - increases the benefits to the 7th house> > > > > significations.> > > > > Since we are talking about the favourite signification of partners - it> > > > > means gains to the partners.> > > > > Will it mean that the Jataka enjoys many partners ? - That depends on> > > the> > > > > other houses like 1st house, 1HL etc. If they are aspected by> > > restraining> > > > > graha' aspect positioning or other yogas then he may not enjoy the> > > > > multiplicity of enjoyments of 7th house.> > > > > Conversely a person's 1HL and other things may be spoilt and the 7th> > > > > house/lord barren, yet that will not prevent him from Purushartha - you> > > know> > > > > what I mean.> > > > >> > > > > Everybody has a potential to have more partners - depends on all> > > factors if> > > > > he is able to.> > > > > All factors 7,11,1,5,8,12 etc.> > > > >> > > > > Thanks & Regards> > > > >> > > > > Chiranjiv Mehta> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > --- On *Sat, 17/4/10, kiran.rama <kiran.rama@>* wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > kiran.rama <kiran.rama@>> > >> > > > >> > > > > Re: Ve vs. Me vs. Ju in 8th house> > > > > (Saravali)> > > > > <%40>> > > > > Saturday, 17 April, 2010, 11:48 AM> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Dear Renu ji:> > > > >> > > > > From a specific relationships angle, 7HL in 11H implies gain of> > > > > relationships, spouse, partners etc - so 'extra' partners could be a> > > > > signification of 7HL in 11H. Retrograde planet means significations are> > > held> > > > > latent - and are difficult to get expressed unless there is effort on> > > part> > > > > of the native. So as a result seems like the native entered into> > > > > relationships slightly late in life. Retro is not causing the> > > immorality but> > > > > has made the need for extra partners/passion more pronounced!!> > > > >> > > > > The immorality is caused by Ma-Sa aspect; Remember this harm is going> > > to> > > > > happen irrespective of Ma-Sa house lordship; even if they were lording> > > the> > > > > 7H. 7H is not able to utilize Ma/Sa energy.> > > > > Even if it was exalted Ma/Sa aspect, the result would have been the> > > same> > > > >> > > > > Thanks> > > > > Kiran> > > > >> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<> > > http://in.mc946.mail./mc/compose?to=%40> > > >,> > >> > > > > "renunw" <renunw@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Manoj ji,> > > > > >> > > > > > I have a typical example of a Mithuna lagna native where Jupiter is> > > > > placed in 11th house and native leading an immoral life. Here Ju is> > > > > retrograde. Besides Sa's 3rd aspect and Ma's 8th aspect falls on this> > > Ju.> > > > > The native is married to a girl 14 years younger to him. Now he has an> > > extra> > > > > marital relationship with a girl 22 years younger to him! Is this the> > > work> > > > > of retro Ju, the 7th lord in 11th house?> > > > > >> > > > > > blessings,> > > > > >> > > > > > Renu> > > > > >> > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology<> > > http://in.mc946.mail./mc/compose?to=%40> > > >,> > >> > > > > Manoj Kumar <mouji99@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Those who consider that Upachaya houses are houses of expansion and> > > > > requested to answer a small question. Jupiter as lord of 7th house,> > > goes to> > > > > 11th house and now what would this placement of Jupiter mean. Say for> > > > > Mithuna lagna.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Mouji> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > >> >>