Application of Amsas (Divisions)

[Guest guest]

Bhaskar ji,

 

Most of the nadi predictions are based only on transit of slow planets. Those who have had experience with Nadi readers, specially coming from South and invading Delhi, would have noticed it that a majority of their predictions are based on Transit of Jupiter from Natal Moon.

 

regards,

 

Mouji

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Tue, October 13, 2009 1:22:29 PM Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

Just adding some small cent -Some of my (Nadi) predictions are made through transit of slow movingplanets in Navamsha raashis. But this may not be accepted by all, andneeds another set of audience so never speak about same.regards/Bhaskar.

[Guest guest]

Dear Mouji Sahab,

 

I normally do not go for predictions of transits from base point of

Natal Moon, but instead use the Natal Placed Planets - all of them as a

base itself, treating each Natal positioned planet seperately and

viewing it with reference to its Navamsha transit.

 

One requires lots of time to do such studies, note down the effects and

watch them. In todays times . nobody ahs the time to wait but all

desire quick 2 minute noodle type predictions. They expect a answer as

soon as they ask a question, and if the astrologer pauses before

answering, sit with such an morose impression on their faces, as if they

have come to a wrong place.

 

Sometime back a oversmart high society lady visited me, and asked me how

the married Life of her daughter would be. I told her that she would

have certain phases of her Life which would be good, while others not.

And it would be better for her not to look much into it. I asked her to

note down, the different periods where she required to be cautious in

her speech. But this was not digested by her. She instead just rode over

me verbally, that how can you say that her married Life will have

troubles, when all other astrologers have said that it will be very

good. It seems you dont know astrology. (She had not come through any

references but seen my feature in one of the daily newspapers) . I got

angered and told her a few things, and she did stay for 2 hours after

that and went away paying my fees. People these days want the

astrologer to say, what they want to hear, and this does not work with

me unfortunately.

 

Sorry I changed the track of the conversation..

 

regards,

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

, Manoj Kumar

<mouji99 wrote:

>

> Bhaskar ji,

>

> Most of the nadi predictions are based only on transit of slow

planets. Those who have had experience with Nadi readers, specially

coming from South and invading Delhi, would have noticed it that a

majority of their predictions are based on Transit of Jupiter from Natal

Moon.

>

> regards,

>

> Mouji

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish

>

> Tue, October 13, 2009 1:22:29 PM

> Re: Application of Amsas

(Divisions)

>

>

>

> Just adding some small cent -

>

> Some of my (Nadi) predictions are made through transit of slow moving

> planets in Navamsha raashis. But this may not be accepted by all, and

> needs another set of audience so never speak about same.

>

> regards/Bhaskar.

>

[Guest guest]

Bhaskar ji,

 

Yes, they largely use transits. Mostly from Moon and then also from Natal Planets.

 

regards,

 

Mouji

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Tue, October 13, 2009 3:25:45 PM Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

Dear Mouji Sahab,I normally do not go for predictions of transits from base point ofNatal Moon, but instead use the Natal Placed Planets - all of them as abase itself, treating each Natal positioned planet seperately andviewing it with reference to its Navamsha transit.One requires lots of time to do such studies, note down the effects andwatch them. In todays times . nobody ahs the time to wait but alldesire quick 2 minute noodle type predictions. They expect a answer assoon as they ask a question, and if the astrologer pauses beforeanswering, sit with such an morose impression on their faces, as if theyhave come to a wrong place.Sometime back a oversmart high society lady visited me, and asked me howthe married Life of her daughter would be. I told her that she wouldhave certain phases of her Life which would be good, while others not.And it would be better for her not to look

much into it. I asked her tonote down, the different periods where she required to be cautious inher speech. But this was not digested by her. She instead just rode overme verbally, that how can you say that her married Life will havetroubles, when all other astrologers have said that it will be verygood. It seems you dont know astrology. (She had not come through anyreferences but seen my feature in one of the daily newspapers) . I gotangered and told her a few things, and she did stay for 2 hours afterthat and went away paying my fees. People these days want theastrologer to say, what they want to hear, and this does not work withme unfortunately.Sorry I changed the track of the conversation. .regards,Bhaskar.ancient_indian_

astrology, Manoj Kumar<mouji99 > wrote:>> Bhaskar ji,>> Most of the nadi predictions are based only on transit of slowplanets. Those who have had experience with Nadi readers, speciallycoming from South and invading Delhi, would have noticed it that amajority of their predictions are based on Transit of Jupiter from NatalMoon.>> regards,>> Mouji>>>>> ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> ancient_indian_ astrology> Tue, October 13, 2009 1:22:29 PM> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Application of Amsas(Divisions)>>>> Just adding some

small cent ->> Some of my (Nadi) predictions are made through transit of slow moving> planets in Navamsha raashis. But this may not be accepted by all, and> needs another set of audience so never speak about same.>> regards/Bhaskar.>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh , Chakraborty and Dr. Neelam ji, I am one who favor the use of VARGA CHARTS ,AND NOTED DOWN SOME RULES FOR ASSESSMENT OF VARGA CHARTS " How to judge the effects from divisional charts"I earnestly hope it will help in the accessment of varga charts.Regards,G. K. Goel

 

From: sreesogDate: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:35:23 +0000 Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

 

 

 

 

Dear Chakraborty ji,

Well said! You got is all correct.

//> There is a request to all. If possible, a Blind chart may please be taken up by the forum. And both sides may use different approaches to show what are the additional informations could be gleaned from use of D-9 charts and whether the additional info is correct or not.

> This will help many a forum member to understand the discussion that is going on for few days.//

I agree to this - but would request you to hold it for some time. Let more info gets poured in, clarity come, let the water get settled and become more clean, let consensus sets in and then we will conduct an Amsa centric blind chart reading. If we does it in a hurry, the focus will shift and we will lose a chance for good amount of information exchange.

Love and regards,

Sreenadh

 

, "Chakraborty, PL" <CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:

>

> Dear Learned Seniors,

>

> The result of this discussion appears to be....(from an engrs point

> of view only) (To be taken on a lighter vein ONLY)

>

> Sreenadh-ji is saying :

>

> 1) Varga Charts are not sanctioned as per codes and standards.

> Hence can not be used as a part of standard design practices.

> 2) There are no precedents or Code cases relating to such practices.

> 3) The Varga charts are not covered in "recommended good practices"

> in the Codes / Standards

> 4) There are few institutes practising such charts. It appears that they

> have 'extrapolated' data to form such practices. However, the basis

> of such extrapolation is not established.

>

> On the other hand, Neelam-ji and others have slightly different take

>

> 1) The codes / standards are have not clearly banned such uses

> 2) There are few code cases which can be interpreted other-wise

> and prima facie, appears to support varga charts

> 3) Irrespective of Codes/standards, few experts are using such charts

> frequently and getting good results / additional benefits. These

> are Company design practices and may supersede international

> codes. (Like Shell Design Practice may supersede ASME codes

> where Shell is the designer).

>

> There is a request to all. If possible, a Blind chart may please be taken

> up by the forum. And both sides may use different approaches to show

> what are the additional informations could be gleaned from use of D-9 charts

> and whether the additional info is correct or not.

>

> This will help many a forum member to understand the discussion that is

> going on for few days.

>

> regards

>

> Chakraborty

 

 

 

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How to judge the effects from divisional charts2.doc

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam ji,The following principle given by Late Mr. C.S.Patel after scanning Nadi literature do work:" Rashi Tulya Navamsha and Navamsha Tulya rashi are the two

concepts which have been elaborated by Sh Patel with support from

quotes from classics and Nadi literature."Let take an example of Virgo Lagna and NAVAMSA LAGNA is Aries.(Male born April23,1937,at 16,31-28N21,79E23)True Rahu is in 3H in D-1 chart and in Capricorn in D-9 in 10H. Accordind to Navamsha Tulya rashi rule Rahu will also give the result of 5H in rashi chart.The native compleated his egucation , employed in good job , marriedand blessed wit son in the major period of Rahu.I am attaching an article "Concept of Vargottama" which proves that Varga chart is a very effective tool for prediction.Regards,G. K. Goel

 

 

address: L-409 Sarita Vihar, New Delhi - 110076

tel: 011-26943689, 011-41403352,

mobile: 09350311433 From: neelamgupta07Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 13:10:28 +0530Re: Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

 

 

 

 

Thanks Mouji ji. I was afraid to introduce another terminology within a hanging debate. Yes, Rashi Tulya Navamsha and Navamsha Tulya rashi are the two concepts which have been elaborated by Sh Patel with support from quotes from classics and Nadi literature.

The general indications of the promise seen from the Rashi Tulya Navamsha e.g. if more planets fall in Bhagyamsha, karmamsha, lagamsha etc., native leads a happy and prosperous life.Transit results have to be see from Navamsh Tulya Rashi, e.g., it is a known dictum as also given by Phaldeepika (Chap XVI, Sh 12) and discussed by Sh Patel, when Jupiter in Transit comes to the Navamsha occupied by any bhava lord, or trines to it, good results of that bhava are obtained.

One can see these by marking in the rashi chart itself, or make a separate varga or even do all computations mentally! All depends on individual skills and preferences, I guess.RegardsNeelam

2009/10/13 Manoj Kumar <mouji99 >

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry for intervention but Neelam ji, this is called Rashi Tulya Navamsha wherein the planets in navamsha are superimposed on the basic birth chart.

 

regards,

 

Mouji--- On Tue, 10/13/09, S.C. Kursija <sckursija > wrote:

S.C. Kursija <sckursija >Re: Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 11:54 AM

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Neelam ji,

Thanks for the post. I have all the books of Sh. Chandulal S patel with me. I have great respect for him and read them to understand the nadi astrology and navamsha.

My submission was only that Sreenad is not wrong Nadi astrology and others also use amsha in rashi chart. We use varga charts separately only for easy understanding the applicability of amsha in the chart, because all members may not have as high IQ as Sreenadh and you. My IQ is not high but still I desire to understand astrolgy in the easy way. So I use separate chart for the varga. Take my chart. The ascendant is Sagittarius 27* 21 minute. It falls in Sagittarius navamsha. So we can say that lagna is lagnamsha yukta. If we draw the separate chart of navamsha with Sagittarius lagna will give the same meaning easy understandable to me who has normal IQ. Take Sun posited in Aries with 8* 16 minutes. Sun is in Gemini navamsha. Gemini is 7th house in rashi chart. So Sun is kalatrayukta. If we draw the navamsha chart with Sagittarius lagna, there will be Gemini in 7th house. Very easy to understand. Where is the controversy?

Both are saying the same thing in different way.

So far as use of strong words for the beacons of astrology in the present time, I can not agree with Sreenadh. We should be polite and have respect for them, though we disagree with them The have done or doing some thing and contributing to astrology. They are trying to regain lost respect and estabilishing astrology on firm footing. I salute them.

Love and regards--- On Mon, 10/12/09, neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ gmail.com> wrote:

neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ gmail.com>Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

ancient_indian_ astrologyMonday, October 12, 2009, 11:07 PM

Dear Kursija ji,There is liberal use of reckonings from lagna amshas by CS Patel. Trasits and aspects are also discussed in details.Please check these from his book Navamsha in Astrology. They are all accompanied by quotes.

(pls refer to pp 13-17)22nd Dreshkan is reckoned from lagna Dreshkan. 64th Navamsha from lagna and moon navamsha and is called Sanghatika.There should be no planet in the 55th Navamsha from lagna navamsha at the time of marriage. What we broadly recommend as no planet in 7H.

Certain other places from lagna/moon’s navamsha have been recommended which can be better seen in a chart erected with rising navamsa. These are 36th Nav (square), 72nd Navamsha (called Vainashiskam) , 96th Navamsha (Manasam) etc.

Transit of planets on all these points have also been described. In fact, the author recommends the use of 64th navamsha from all planets.Use of terms like

Bhavottama ad trikonge/trikonke (pp 20)Transits of planets on Navamshas occupied by various lords are well described with quotes, specially chapter 10.Aspects in Navamsha (pp 178-180)Last page: please see his explanation on own navamsha and rashi chart and how he’s read it.

Then lastly, one important para tells you that all that he says is supported by classics, except the use of ashtakvarga on navamsha.Hope you’ll find it useful. Please note that this is not to alter your view point, just stating some relevant references for study.

RegardsNeelam

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Concept of vargottama.doc

[Guest guest]

Dear Sirs,

 

Where have you noted these rules ? Where can we find and read your

article ?

 

regards/Bhaskar.

 

 

, gopal krishna goel

<g.k.goel wrote:

>

>

> Dear Sreenadh , Chakraborty and Dr. Neelam ji,

>

> I am one who favor the use of VARGA CHARTS ,

> AND NOTED DOWN SOME RULES FOR ASSESSMENT OF VARGA CHARTS

> " How to judge the effects from divisional charts "

> I earnestly hope it will help in the accessment of varga charts.

>

> Regards,

> G. K. Goel

 

> sreesog

> Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:35:23 +0000

> Re: Application of Amsas

(Divisions)

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Dear Chakraborty ji,

>

> Well said! You got is all correct.

>

> //> There is a request to all. If possible, a Blind chart may please

be taken up by the forum. And both sides may use different approaches to

show what are the additional informations could be gleaned from use of

D-9 charts and whether the additional info is correct or not.

>

> > This will help many a forum member to understand the discussion that

is going on for few days.//

>

> I agree to this - but would request you to hold it for some time. Let

more info gets poured in, clarity come, let the water get settled and

become more clean, let consensus sets in and then we will conduct an

Amsa centric blind chart reading. If we does it in a hurry, the focus

will shift and we will lose a chance for good amount of information

exchange.

>

> Love and regards,

>

> Sreenadh

>

>

>

> , " Chakraborty, PL "

CHAKRABORTYP2@ wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Dear Learned Seniors,

>

> >

>

> > The result of this discussion appears to be....(from an engrs point

>

> > of view only) (To be taken on a lighter vein ONLY)

>

> >

>

> > Sreenadh-ji is saying :

>

> >

>

> > 1) Varga Charts are not sanctioned as per codes and standards.

>

> > Hence can not be used as a part of standard design practices.

>

> > 2) There are no precedents or Code cases relating to such practices.

>

> > 3) The Varga charts are not covered in " recommended good practices "

>

> > in the Codes / Standards

>

> > 4) There are few institutes practising such charts. It appears that

they

>

> > have 'extrapolated' data to form such practices. However, the basis

>

> > of such extrapolation is not established.

>

> >

>

> > On the other hand, Neelam-ji and others have slightly different take

>

> >

>

> > 1) The codes / standards are have not clearly banned such uses

>

> > 2) There are few code cases which can be interpreted other-wise

>

> > and prima facie, appears to support varga charts

>

> > 3) Irrespective of Codes/standards, few experts are using such

charts

>

> > frequently and getting good results / additional benefits. These

>

> > are Company design practices and may supersede international

>

> > codes. (Like Shell Design Practice may supersede ASME codes

>

> > where Shell is the designer).

>

> >

>

> > There is a request to all. If possible, a Blind chart may please be

taken

>

> > up by the forum. And both sides may use different approaches to show

>

> > what are the additional informations could be gleaned from use of

D-9 charts

>

> > and whether the additional info is correct or not.

>

> >

>

> > This will help many a forum member to understand the discussion that

is

>

> > going on for few days.

>

> >

>

> > regards

>

> >

>

> > Chakraborty

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

_______________

> Newsmakers and happenings from around the world – just one click

away on MSN India

> http://in.msn.com

>

[Guest guest]

G. K. Goel

 

Dear Sreenadh , Chakraborty and Dr. Neelam ji, I am one who favor the use of VARGA CHARTS ,AND NOTED DOWN SOME RULES FOR ASSESSMENT OF VARGA CHARTS " How to judge the effects from divisional charts"I earnestly hope it will help in the accessment of varga charts.Regards,G. K. Goel

 

From: sreesogDate: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:35:23 +0000 Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

 

 

 

 

Dear Chakraborty ji,

Well said! You got is all correct.

//> There is a request to all. If possible, a Blind chart may please be taken up by the forum. And both sides may use different approaches to show what are the additional informations could be gleaned from use of D-9 charts and whether the additional info is correct or not.

> This will help many a forum member to understand the discussion that is going on for few days.//

I agree to this - but would request you to hold it for some time. Let more info gets poured in, clarity come, let the water get settled and become more clean, let consensus sets in and then we will conduct an Amsa centric blind chart reading. If we does it in a hurry, the focus will shift and we will lose a chance for good amount of information exchange.

Love and regards,

Sreenadh

 

, "Chakraborty, PL" <CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:

>

> Dear Learned Seniors,

>

> The result of this discussion appears to be....(from an engrs point

> of view only) (To be taken on a lighter vein ONLY)

>

> Sreenadh-ji is saying :

>

> 1) Varga Charts are not sanctioned as per codes and standards.

> Hence can not be used as a part of standard design practices.

> 2) There are no precedents or Code cases relating to such practices.

> 3) The Varga charts are not covered in "recommended good practices"

> in the Codes / Standards

> 4) There are few institutes practising such charts. It appears that they

> have 'extrapolated' data to form such practices. However, the basis

> of such extrapolation is not established.

>

> On the other hand, Neelam-ji and others have slightly different take

>

> 1) The codes / standards are have not clearly banned such uses

> 2) There are few code cases which can be interpreted other-wise

> and prima facie, appears to support varga charts

> 3) Irrespective of Codes/standards, few experts are using such charts

> frequently and getting good results / additional benefits. These

> are Company design practices and may supersede international

> codes. (Like Shell Design Practice may supersede ASME codes

> where Shell is the designer).

>

> There is a request to all. If possible, a Blind chart may please be taken

> up by the forum. And both sides may use different approaches to show

> what are the additional informations could be gleaned from use of D-9 charts

> and whether the additional info is correct or not.

>

> This will help many a forum member to understand the discussion that is

> going on for few days.

>

> regards

>

> Chakraborty

 

 

 

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How to judge the effects from divisional charts2.doc

[Guest guest]

Neelam ji,

 

I am giving below an example by taking the case of Smt. Indira Gandhi. The time and details, I am using are as under 19-11-1917, Allahabad, 23.09 hours. This horoscope is of Cancer Lagna and has been used widely.

 

i. Marriage. In Birth chart, Saturn, Seventh Lord is aspecting Seventh house so should have logically protected her marriage. But what was her marriage, we all know. Now go to navamsha. Seventh lord Mercury in the eighth house with Eighth lord and aspected by Saturn, the twelfth lord.

 

ii. Tenth House : Tenth and Fifth Lord Mars in the second house. In Dashamsha, tenth lord Sun is in tenth house. And now see the beauty, this tenth lord is aspected by Mars, sixth lord, signifying controversies and tussles in her career. Notice the importance of aspect as it is coming from third house.

 

iii. Children : Birth Chart, fifth lord Mars is aspecting fifth house and in Saptamsha, fifth lord is again Mars, placed in the fifth house. Now comes the beauty. In both charts, Fifth house makes a connection with the second house. Any indications there?

 

Just three aspects for the present.

 

regards,

 

Mouji

 

 

 

neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 Sent: Tue, October 13, 2009 4:33:33 PMRe: Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

Respected Goel ji,Thank you for sharing you views. I think attachments are not accessible through the group.Kindly forward the text with the post or you may upload the file in the files section.RegardsNeelam

2009/10/13 gopal krishna goel <g.k.goel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>

 

 

[Attachment(s) from gopal krishna goel included below]

Dear Sreenadh , Chakraborty and Dr. Neelam ji, I am one who favor the use of VARGA CHARTS ,AND NOTED DOWN SOME RULES FOR ASSESSMENT OF VARGA CHARTS " How to judge the effects from divisional charts"I earnestly hope it will help in the accessment of varga charts.Regards,G. K. Goel

 

ancient_indian_ astrologysreesog Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:35:23 +0000[ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

 

Dear Chakraborty ji, Well said! You got is all correct. :)//> There is a request to all. If possible, a Blind chart may please be taken up by the forum. And both sides may use different approaches to show what are the additional informations could be gleaned from use of D-9 charts and whether the additional info is correct or not.> This will help many a forum member to understand the discussion that is going on for few days.//I agree to this - but would request you to hold it for some time. Let more info gets poured in, clarity come, let the water get settled and become more clean, let consensus sets in and then we will conduct an Amsa centric blind chart reading. If we does it in a hurry, the focus will shift and we will lose a chance for good amount of information exchange. :)Love and regards,Sreenadhancient_indian_ astrology, "Chakraborty, PL" <CHAKRABORTYP2@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Learned Seniors,> > The result of this discussion appears to be....(from an engrs point> of view only) (To be taken on a lighter vein ONLY)> > Sreenadh-ji is saying :> > 1) Varga Charts are not sanctioned as per codes and standards.> Hence can not be used as a part of standard design practices.> 2) There are no precedents or Code cases relating to such practices.> 3) The Varga charts are not covered in "recommended good practices"> in the Codes / Standards> 4) There are few institutes practising such charts. It appears that they> have 'extrapolated' data to form such practices. However, the basis> of such extrapolation is not established.> > On the other hand,

Neelam-ji and others have slightly different take> > 1) The codes / standards are have not clearly banned such uses> 2) There are few code cases which can be interpreted other-wise> and prima facie, appears to support varga charts> 3) Irrespective of Codes/standards, few experts are using such charts> frequently and getting good results / additional benefits. These> are Company design practices and may supersede international> codes. (Like Shell Design Practice may supersede ASME codes> where Shell is the designer).> > There is a request to all. If possible, a Blind chart may please be taken> up by the forum. And both sides may use different approaches to show> what are the additional informations could be gleaned from use of D-9 charts> and whether the additional info is correct or not.> > This will help many a forum member to understand the

discussion that is> going on for few days.> > regards> > Chakraborty

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Mouji ji,//Now comes the beauty. In both charts, Fifth house makes a connection with the second house. Any indications there?//I guess this denotes the maraka connection. Present in rashi and confirmed in D-7. Sun is the maraka and separator 2L and with Mars became a combination for violent death of her sons.

Thanks for bringing up the beautiful example to show the working

of Vargas. I'll request Sreenadh ji to justify the events through

traditional divisional consideratiions for the benefit of members.RegardsNeelam

[Guest guest]

Dear Mouji Sahab,

 

This is a very good example, beautifully presented and explained well

about the importance of looking at Varga, and the missing links if just

adjudged from the Natal Chart.

 

regards/Bhaskar.

 

 

, Manoj Kumar

<mouji99 wrote:

>

> Neelam ji,

>

> I am giving below an example by taking the case of Smt. Indira Gandhi.

The time and details, I am using are as under 19-11-1917, Allahabad,

23.09 hours. This horoscope is of Cancer Lagna and has been used widely.

>

> i. Â Â Â Marriage. In Birth chart, Saturn, Seventh Lord is

aspecting Seventh house so should have logically protected her marriage.

But what was her marriage, we all know. Now go to navamsha. Seventh lord

Mercury in the eighth house with Eighth lord and aspected by Saturn, the

twelfth lord.

>

> ii.   Tenth House : Tenth and Fifth Lord Mars in the

second house. In Dashamsha, tenth lord Sun is in tenth house. And now

see the beauty, this tenth lord is aspected by Mars, sixth lord,

signifying controversies and tussles in her career. Notice the

importance of aspect as it is coming from third house.

>

> iii. Â Â Â Children : Birth Chart, fifth lord Mars is

aspecting fifth house and in Saptamsha, fifth lord is again Mars, placed

in the fifth house. Now comes the beauty. In both charts, Fifth house

makes a connection with the second house. Any indications there?

>

> Just three aspects for the present.

>

> regards,

>

> MoujiÂ

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam ji, //I'll request Sreenadh ji to justify the events through

traditional divisional consideratiions for the benefit of members.// Enthusiasm is good - but not always. But there was something I said to Chakraborty ji when he invited a blind chart reading based on Vargas. Please refer to : /message/26304 I think you missed that mail. I will quote my words to him, here again -//I agree to this - but would request you to hold it for some time. Let more

info gets poured in, clarity come, let the water get settled and become more

clean, let consensus sets in and then we will conduct an Amsa centric blind

chart reading. If we does it in a hurry, the focus will shift and we will lose a

chance for good amount of information exchange. :)// I stick to that and have much more to convey, and don't want to divert my attention and focus as of now. I will come back to this exercise later. Subjects should be approached in an order and in the most beneficial manner - hurry/enthusiasm should not spoil the possible benefits. Further even when we go for Divisions vs Divisional charts, let us go for a blind chart than for a known chart. Because as you know D-charts are generally used just in postmortem for finding an "explanation" and Divisions can be used in a better way to "derive/predict results". So I request you to please be patient. It ok, I will touch it, but later. Love and regards,Sreenadh , neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Mouji ji,> > //Now comes the beauty. In both charts, Fifth house makes a connection with> the second house. Any indications there?//> I guess this denotes the maraka connection. Present in rashi and confirmed> in D-7. Sun is the maraka and separator 2L and with Mars became a> combination for violent death of her sons.> > Thanks for bringing up the beautiful example to show the working of Vargas.> I'll request Sreenadh ji to justify the events through traditional> divisional consideratiions for the benefit of members.> > Regards> Neelam>

[Guest guest]

DEAR NEELAM JI AND KURSIJA JI,I am unable to understand the controversy on varga charts.Nativities and varga charts ,no more or no less, are mapping ofplanetary positions with respect to bhavas and signs.Are any instructions are required from sages?Regards,G. K. Goel

From: sckursijaDate: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 07:16:04 -0700Re: Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

 

 

 

 

Dear Neelam ji,

I agree with you. we create separate chart as navamsha, but Sreenadh use only Rashi chart and see the sign that planet occupy in navamsha. Sh Chandu lal S. Patel read the navamsha chart in the similar manner. In his book navamsha and Nadi astrology chpter 2 page 11, he give a chart as "The native is born in Virgo Ascendant, in the Sun's Hora, in Capricorn Drekkan, in Taurus Navamsha and Jupiters's trimsamsa".The Sun is in the sign of Pisces in conjunction with Venus. So Sun is in Sagittarius navamsha which falls in 4th house of rashi chart so Sun is sukhamshayukta

Venus is Aquarius in navamsha which falls in 6th house of rashi chart so Venus is in shashtamshayukta and so on, We can read the planet in rashi chart with reference with varga amsha as Horamshayukta, Drekkanamshayukta or navamamshayukta etc.

Regards

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh ji,//CSP was a very sincere astrologer, and he won't approve something if he couldn't find a clear reference to the same. //Glad you agree

//He couldn't find any reference to BOTH Ashtaka varga to navamsa or to the popular practice of reading navamsa chart starting from lagnamsaKA and so he moved it to the end of his book - with a note " From research point of view, students may try " . Ha..Ha.. Clever he is! //

Portion in RED is your addition. It does not appear in the book. //Any way the point to be accepted is that - He was not against drawing Navamsaka planetary placement as a separate chart; but he never read it as an independent chart. //

The use of divisional charts cannot be independent of the Rashi chart. We agree on this point from the beginning.Now, please allow me to go slow for a better grasp of what you’re trying to say.Let us stick to divisions and divisional charts or vargas. If it is navamsha then we talk about navamsha chart. Let is leave NavamsaKa aside for a while just as Patel ji has done to simplify the matters for us.

Do you think the way CSP has dealt with Navamsha is acceptable and holds classical sanction? Where has he gone wrong, if at all? Is Nadi literature ancient enough? Can it be included in traditional practice?Why is there much emphasis on house lords and their Rashi Tulya Navamsha positions rather than planets? He has hardly talked about results of planets in particular Navamshas. Why? Did he not know the traditional system which talked about such results?

Would appreciate your views. RegardsNeelam

[Guest guest]

Dear Goel ji,That is what we have been telling Sreenadh ji. How to make a spreadsheet to study what has been given in the classics is upto us. Whether we study on the same chart or prepare separate charts or do an entirely mental exercise, it does not matter and does not require any sanction.

But Sreenadh ji thinks that the way we read those varga charts is wrong and baseless and there is no classical sanction on that. We must not read the charts from lagnamsha he maintains. The amshas ca only be superimposed on Rashi chart.

Please go through the discussions and contribute your views.RegardsNeelam2009/10/13 gopal krishna goel <g.k.goel

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DEAR NEELAM JI AND KURSIJA JI,I am unable to understand the controversy on varga charts.Nativities and varga charts ,no more or  no less, are mapping ofplanetary positions with respect to bhavas and signs.

Are any instructions are required from sages?Regards,G. K. Goel 

From: sckursija

Mon, 12 Oct 2009 07:16:04 -0700Re: Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Neelam ji,

I agree with you. we create separate chart as navamsha, but Sreenadh use only Rashi chart and see the sign that planet occupy in navamsha. Sh Chandu lal S. Patel read the navamsha chart in the similar manner. In his book navamsha and Nadi astrology chpter 2 page 11, he give a chart as " The native is born in Virgo Ascendant, in the Sun's Hora, in Capricorn Drekkan, in Taurus Navamsha and Jupiters's trimsamsa " .The Sun is in the sign of Pisces in conjunction with Venus. So Sun is in Sagittarius navamsha which falls in 4th house of rashi chart so Sun is sukhamshayukta

 

Venus is Aquarius in navamsha which falls in 6th house of rashi chart so Venus is in shashtamshayukta and so on, We can read the planet in rashi chart with reference with varga amsha as Horamshayukta, Drekkanamshayukta or navamamshayukta etc.

Regards

[Guest guest]

DEAR friends, In BPHS CH 6 Shloka 2,3and 4 ,Parasara teaches us: "Lord Brahma has described 16 vargas .Listen to those. The same are rasi , hora , drekkana , chathurthamsa and so on ( he lists all the 16 varga.If Rasi chart is to be constructed so as the charts of other varga(s).If some person wish to take first step and then does not wish to take second , third and further steps ,it is entirely for him.Let not bring sages and classics into it.I have mailed three articles to Dr. Neelam Gupta for posting them in file section.Every savants can use these methods easily .Regards,G. K. Goel

 

From: neelamgupta07Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 19:59:28 +0530Re: Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

 

 

 

 

Dear Goel ji,That is what we have been telling Sreenadh ji. How to make a spreadsheet to study what has been given in the classics is upto us. Whether we study on the same chart or prepare separate charts or do an entirely mental exercise, it does not matter and does not require any sanction.

But Sreenadh ji thinks that the way we read those varga charts is wrong and baseless and there is no classical sanction on that. We must not read the charts from lagnamsha he maintains. The amshas ca only be superimposed on Rashi chart.

Please go through the discussions and contribute your views.RegardsNeelam2009/10/13 gopal krishna goel <g.k.goel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>

 

 

 

 

 

 

DEAR NEELAM JI AND KURSIJA JI,I am unable to understand the controversy on varga charts.Nativities and varga charts ,no more or no less, are mapping ofplanetary positions with respect to bhavas and signs.

Are any instructions are required from sages?Regards,G. K. Goel

From: sckursija

Mon, 12 Oct 2009 07:16:04 -0700Re: Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Neelam ji,

I agree with you. we create separate chart as navamsha, but Sreenadh use only Rashi chart and see the sign that planet occupy in navamsha. Sh Chandu lal S. Patel read the navamsha chart in the similar manner. In his book navamsha and Nadi astrology chpter 2 page 11, he give a chart as "The native is born in Virgo Ascendant, in the Sun's Hora, in Capricorn Drekkan, in Taurus Navamsha and Jupiters's trimsamsa".The Sun is in the sign of Pisces in conjunction with Venus. So Sun is in Sagittarius navamsha which falls in 4th house of rashi chart so Sun is sukhamshayukta

 

Venus is Aquarius in navamsha which falls in 6th house of rashi chart so Venus is in shashtamshayukta and so on, We can read the planet in rashi chart with reference with varga amsha as Horamshayukta, Drekkanamshayukta or navamamshayukta etc.

Regards

 

 

 

 

 

 

From the events that change the world, to the ones that just shouldn’t be missed. Catch it all on MSN India. Drag n’ drop

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Gopal Krishna ji,

 

Thank You for pointing this to us. The only detraction that can come now to this

excerpt you presented is - " The BPHS is corrupted and not original " .

 

regards/Bhaskar.

 

 

 

, gopal krishna goel

<g.k.goel wrote:

>

>

> DEAR friends,

> In BPHS CH 6 Shloka 2,3and 4 ,Parasara teaches us:

> " Lord Brahma has described 16 vargas .Listen to those. The same are

> rasi , hora , drekkana , chathurthamsa and so on ( he lists all the 16

varga.

> If Rasi chart is to be constructed so as the charts of other varga(s).

>

> If some person wish to take first step and then does not wish to take second ,

third

> and further steps ,it is entirely for him.

> Let not bring sages and classics into it.

> I have mailed three articles to Dr. Neelam Gupta for posting them in file

section.

> Every savants can use these methods easily .

> Regards,

>

> G. K. Goel

>

 

> neelamgupta07

> Tue, 13 Oct 2009 19:59:28 +0530

> Re: Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Dear Goel ji,

>

> That is what we have been telling Sreenadh ji.

> How to make a spreadsheet to study what has been given in the classics is upto

us. Whether we study on the same chart or prepare separate charts or do an

entirely mental exercise, it does not matter and does not require any sanction.

>

> But Sreenadh ji thinks that the way we read those varga charts is wrong and

baseless and there is no classical sanction on that. We must not read the charts

from lagnamsha he maintains. The amshas ca only be superimposed on Rashi chart.

>

> Please go through the discussions and contribute your views.

>

> Regards

> Neelam

>

>

> 2009/10/13 gopal krishna goel <g.k.goel

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

DEAR NEELAM JI AND KURSIJA JI,

>

> I am unable to understand the controversy on varga charts.

> Nativities and varga charts ,no more or no less, are mapping of

> planetary positions with respect to bhavas and signs.

>

> Are any instructions are required from sages?

> Regards,

>

> G. K. Goel

 

> sckursija

>

> Mon, 12 Oct 2009 07:16:04 -0700

> Re: Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Dear Neelam ji,

> I agree with you. we create separate chart as navamsha, but Sreenadh use only

Rashi chart and see the sign that planet occupy in navamsha. Sh Chandu lal S.

Patel read the navamsha chart in the similar manner. In his book navamsha and

Nadi astrology chpter 2 page 11, he give a chart as " The native is born in Virgo

Ascendant, in the Sun's Hora, in Capricorn Drekkan, in Taurus Navamsha and

Jupiters's trimsamsa " .The Sun is in the sign of Pisces in conjunction with

Venus. So Sun is in Sagittarius navamsha which falls in 4th house of rashi chart

so Sun is sukhamshayukta

>

>

> Venus is Aquarius in navamsha which falls in 6th house of rashi chart so Venus

is in shashtamshayukta and so on, We can read the planet in rashi chart with

reference with varga amsha as Horamshayukta, Drekkanamshayukta or

navamamshayukta etc.

>

> Regards

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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_______________

> News, views and inimitable perspectives – On MSN India, you get an all-round

view of things that matter.

> http://in.msn.com

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam ji,//> Let us stick to divisions and divisional charts or vargas. If it is navamsha> then we talk about navamsha chart. Let is leave NavamsaKa aside for a while> just as Patel ji has done to simplify the matters for us.// Ha..Ha.. Please understand it. What you draw is NavamsaKa chart and then call it Navamsa chart. Anyway that doesn't make much difference. //> Do you think the way CSP has dealt with Navamsha is acceptable and holds> classical sanction? Where has he gone wrong, if at all? Is Nadi literature> ancient enough? Can it be included in traditional practice?// There is nothing wrong with CSP (he knew what he was speaking about), but your understanding of CSP's words. Nadi literature is ancient enough, but that is a different system and is NOT part of Arsha/Jain/Yavana schools of astrology (which have many things in common). //> Why is there much emphasis on house lords and their Rashi Tulya Navamsha> positions rather than planets? He has hardly talked about results of planets> in particular Navamshas. Why? Did he not know the traditional system which> talked about such results?// Yes, I know from the confusion springs for you. I will talk about it in detail in another message. (Actually I had prepared it half way, and then due to home busy schedule couldn't complete and post it - I will complete it and will post it) Love and regards,Sreenadh , neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> > //CSP was a very sincere astrologer, and he won't approve something if he> couldn't find a clear reference to the same. //> Glad you agree> > //He couldn't find any reference to BOTH Ashtaka varga to navamsa or> to the popular> practice of reading navamsa chart starting from lagnamsaKA and so he moved> it to the end of his book - with a note "From research point of view,> students may try". Ha..Ha.. Clever he is! //> Portion in RED is your addition. It does not appear in the book.> > //Any way the point to be accepted is that - He was not against drawing> Navamsaka planetary placement as a separate chart; but he never read it as> an independent chart. //> The use of divisional charts cannot be independent of the Rashi chart. We> agree on this point from the beginning.> > Now, please allow me to go slow for a better grasp of what you're trying to> say.> > Let us stick to divisions and divisional charts or vargas. If it is navamsha> then we talk about navamsha chart. Let is leave NavamsaKa aside for a while> just as Patel ji has done to simplify the matters for us.> > Do you think the way CSP has dealt with Navamsha is acceptable and holds> classical sanction? Where has he gone wrong, if at all? Is Nadi literature> ancient enough? Can it be included in traditional practice?> > Why is there much emphasis on house lords and their Rashi Tulya Navamsha> positions rather than planets? He has hardly talked about results of planets> in particular Navamshas. Why? Did he not know the traditional system which> talked about such results?> > Would appreciate your views.> > Regards> Neelam>

[Guest guest]

Dear All, Some one may ask why even knowledgeable individuals

like Neelam ji- who usually searches for ancient textual references and

if only supported by the same follows/accepts certain advices - became

mislead by the concepts such as "Transit in D-charts". There could be

many answers - 1) KNR (Neelam ji's astro guru) supports it 2) May be her own experience/experiments supports it 3) He misinterpretted some statements in CSP's book I don't want to address the first two questions. But I think that the 3rd point is important and should be addressed. *

CSP picks up the "considering the navamsaka ALSO" in transit from some

nadi texts such as Deva kerala and Brigu nadi. This much effort of

going into Nadi text was not required, since the same concept is

available in other standard astrological texts (such as Prashnamarga)

as well. Anyway the quotes given by him were such as (for example in

the case of Saturn)- Tatad bahave ashtamesamse trikone va athava bhavet Sputayogam gate mande tattad bhava vinasanam (Deva Keralam)

Meaning (in CSP's own words), "Saturn's transit in the sign identical

with the navamsa occupied by the lord of 8th house from the given bhava

or trine thereof on the the degree of that sign lord will destroy the

good effects due to that bhava". Huh! He had made it too

complex! It could have been said in a very simple way - "If Saturn

transit the NavamsaKA of the 8th lord or its trines - with exact

longitudinal match - it will destroy the good effects of 8th house

(i.e. will cause problems to longevity)". Presented mathematically, this means that - 1) Find, Longitude of 8th lord x 9 = NavamsaKA sputa of 8th lord 2) The Transit Saturn's longitude matches this longitude or its trines If so problems to longevity could happen. This is a simple and standard technique in use! Here the transit of planet is (as usual) through the Rasi chart itself, but the specialty is that the trouble is predicted when the planet traverse through the NavamsaKA sign or its trines. Clear and crisp - no issues. Is there anything new here? This is the same concept that we see - * When some one ask us to multiply lagna sputa by 81 and then say that the our Nakshatra would be in longitudinal agreement with this or its trines. * When some one say that, when some malefic planet travel through the trines of Trisphuta trouble is indicated. Or there are many many such instances and examples. To be general either some Varga longitude or some special sputa (e.g. Trisputa in prashna) would be considered, and when benefic or malefic planet travels through that or its trines IN NATAL CHART positive or negative results would be predicted. Even though the transit of planet in the Natal Chart is the base, since the Divisional longitude (varga longitude) is also under consideration in such cases - THE HELP OF the Divisional longitude is a must in such cases. For example in the case of "Saturn in the trines of NavamsaKA longitude of 8th lord providing longevity problems" - even though the transit is happening in the Natal chart, considering NavamsaKA placement is a must. That is why CSP states - "All these transits discussed in this chapter can be observed WITH THE HELP OF the Navamsa chart only and not from the Rasi chart which should be noted". What he forgot to add is, "But not that the starting point of transit should be Moon's position in Natal chart or of other planets in Natal chart". The people unfamiliar with the system failed to grasp this point and started arguing that CSP is speaking about transit in Navamsa charts! Alas! If they knew that it is a standard technique used in many places in traditional astrology, if they knew that what CSP told is absolutely right but what he didn't tell is what causing the problem, if they knew the traditional system from other sources other than CSP as well, if they could understand CSP better - If so any of these ifs where true this simple single sentence by CSP should not have caused confusion to scholars like Neelam ji! Yes, this must be one of the root statements that makes Neelam ji think that CSP is speaking about Transit in Navamsa chart. By the way, the correct wording to use should be NavamsaKA chart and NOT Navamsa chart. Why? Think that Sun is in 2nd navamsa of Aries - i.e. Sun NavamsaKA is Taurus, or in other words the 2nd Navamsa of Aries falls in Taurus. So when we are marking Sun in Taurus, what do we mark? Are we marking Navamsa or Navamsaka? If we are marking "All the signs on which the Navamsas having planets is falling - i.e. if we are marking NavamsaKA positions of planets" what should we call it - Navamsa chart or NavamsaKA chart? I think technically speaking, "NavamsaKA chart is the correct terminology to be used". Anyway, this is not much important. So in short - the problem is not with the CSP's words, but about the way in which people understand it. CSP has direct knowledge about the system and tradition so his words convey clear meaning to the traditionalists. But for those don't have that direct access, the system is new and just like they do with some quotes of traditional system, they start misinterpretting CSP's words as well! Neelam ji asks - // He (CSP ji) has hardly talked about results of planets in particular Navamshas. Why? Did he not know the traditional system which talked about such results?// I wonder what she think about the subject matter dealt with in chapter 17 to 20 in CSP's book! Are thy not results?! Anyway, there are hundreds of things and quotes CSP has not included in his book - some of them may not have come to him while writing the book, and some of them may not have been available to him while writing that book, and some of them he might thought that not suitable for the book and so on. There could be numerous reasons for something being not present in the book - CSP's book is not intended to be an encyclopedia on Navamsa, but only a helping/guiding tool. If someone demands that everything (here, related to Navamsa) should be present in CSP's book itself, then it is his/her problem and not CSP's. Yes, there are NUMEROUS quotes on Navamsa and its application that are very much useful but not present in CSP's book. Let us not try to ascribe our own misunderstanding to CSP, but instead utilize CSP's book in the best possible way, and also assimilate all the other available results and concepts related to Navamsa; so that this or similar techniques can be applied to other Divsions and Dvisional longitudes as well. Love and regards,Sreenadh , "sreesog" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Neelam ji, > Please permit me to address these points one by one.> //> There is liberal use of reckonings from lagna amshas by CS Patel. Trasits and aspects are also discussed in details. Please check these from his book Navamsha in Astrology. They are all accompanied by quotes.//> We will cross check that and his references.> > Point -1> =========> //> (pls refer to pp 13-17) 22nd Dreshkan is reckoned from lagna Dreshkan. 64th Navamsha from lagna and moon navamsha and is called Sanghatika. There should be no planet in the 55th Navamsha from lagna navamsha at the time of marriage. What we broadly recommend as no planet in 7H. Certain other places from lagna/moon's navamsha have been recommended which can be better seen in a chart erected with rising navamsa. These are 36th Nav (square), 72nd Navamsha (called Vainashiskam), 96th Navamsha (Manasam) etc.///> We are not at all against any of these points. For example - He is speaking about "Lagna NAVAMSA" and not about Lagna NAVAMSAKA.> Please note that it is all about - > * 22nd Drekkana from Lagana Drekkana - i.e. 1/3rd of Sign within Lagna sign (and NOT about Drekkana AmsaKA - i.e. The sign on which Drekkana amsa falls)> * 66th Navamsa from Lagna Navamsa i.e. Lagnamsa - i.e. 1/9 of Sign within Lagna sign (and NOT about LagnamsaKA - i.e. The sign on which the Lagna navamsa - lagnamsa - falls)> The same is true for all the other Amsas he speak about. This is in tune with the traditional approach and NOT COUNTING FROM LagnamsaKA is required. What is under consideration is the divisions of Signs such as Navamsa, Drakkana etc and NOT the sign on which it falls (or the sign to which the lordship is ascribed to). > When you consider the sign on which the amsa falls (i.e. when you consider the AmsaKA instead of Amsa) - you are shifting the starting point (focal point) itself - and then the derivations are not in tune with and not as guided by the classics. Hope I have clarified this issue. The sign of which Amsa is part of and the sign to which its lorship is ascribed to are entirely different. For example Aries 2nd amsa is part of Aried, but the sign to which its lordship is ascribed to is Taurus - hope you see the difference. All the references above given by CSP is to Amsa and NOT to AmsaKA.> > Point -2> ========> //> Transit of planets on all these points have also been described. In fact, the author recommends the use of 64th navamsha from all planets. Use of terms like Bhavottama ad trikonge/trikonke (pp 20)//> > This is well and good and as in tune with the tradition and is "about the transit of planets in Rasi chart itself"! What is wrong in it. Let us take an example.> For an Aries 2nd Navamsa born (Taurus NavamsaKa) native, 64th Navamsa is 2nd Navamsa of Scorpio (and navamsaKA of of 2nd navamsa of Scorpio is Leo - i.e. 2nd navamsa of Scorpio falls in Leo). Now the transit a malefic planet through 8th house, especially through the 64th navamsa from lagnamsa (i.e. through Scorpio second navamsa) would OBVIOUSLY be dangerous! Because the malefic planet is not only in his 8th house, but in exactly the sharp 8th house navamsa (64th namamsa) of the native! This is what CSP is speaking about. Please note that here the transit is happening in the Rasi chart itself. The point is if the malefic planet is traversing through 8th house, and there also through the 64th navamsa it would be deadly. Clear and crisp. > Actually traditional astrology puts forward one more point - even if the transit of the malefic planet is through Leo in the above example (i.e. through the 64th NavamsaKA sign) then too some bad results can be predicted - even though not strong as while the transit is through 64th navamsa - i.e. 8th house. > Thus in this case also CSP is speaking nothing against Traditional astrology; and nothing about considering transit in navamsaKA chart (D-9 chart) starting from LagnamsaKA. The above discussion is NOT about transit in Navamaka chart at all, but about transit in Natal chart (through navamsas).> //> Transits of planets on Navamshas occupied by various lords are well described with quotes, specially chapter 10.//> This statement is also from the same confusion, clarified above.> > Point -3> ========> //> Aspects in Navamsha (pp 178-180)//> The whole section is a translation of quotes present in Brihat Jataka, Saravali and Meeraja hora and nothing else. For example let us take the first sentence from that chapter itself.> "If the Moon is at the time of a person's birth be conjoined in the Navamsa of Aries or Scorpio and be at the same time aspected by the Sun, he will be courageous, will punish thieves, will be reputed and will be protector of a city".> This is nothing but the elaboration of the first word of the quote "Arakshako vadharuchi kusalo niyudhe...." in Brihat Jataka 16th chapter, by considering the results provided by Meenaraja hora as well. > [i am speaking from memory here, and mistakes, if any, I will correct later]> Here a minor mistake is committed by CSP in not using the word NavamsaKA instead of the word Navamsa. Here is the quote is about Moon's navamsa falling in Aries NavamsaKA. It is better to modify the above statement of CSP as follows for better understanding -> "If the Moon is at the time of a person's birth be conjoined in the NavamsaKA of Aries or Scorpio and be at the same time (Moon is) aspected by the Sun, he will be courageous, will punish thieves, will be reputed and will be protector of a city".> Here the point to be noted is that - it is Moon who is aspected by Sun and it is Moon's navamsaKA that is Aries (i.e. Moon Navamsa falls in Aries). > Let us try to understand what it really means (Let us consider Aries only for better understanding) -> * "Moon at the time of birth is conjoned in the Navamsa of Aries" Meaning, Moon is placed in some sign, and Moon's Navamsa falls in Aries. "at the same time aspected by the Sun" Meaning 2 conditions should be met at the same. First, Moon's NavamsaKa should be Aries, and Second, Sun should aspect Moon. It is simple and straight. This is the combination.> * "he will be courageous, will punish thieves, will be reputed and will be protector of a city". OK - that is the result to be predicted.> Now Moon can have Aries NavamsaKA -> 1) If it is placed in the 1st navamsa of Aries> 2) If it is placed in the 4th navamsa of Taurus and so on.> Thus in short, here also it is evident that CSP is speaking about the Drishti of planets in Natal chart only (and NOT in a chart with LagnamsaKA as starting point). But the extra point is that two conditions are considered in the classics, out of which one is about Drishti between planets in natal chart, and the other is about their NavamsaKA in various signs. > Hope I have clarified this confusion. > > Point -4> ========> //> Last page: please see his explanation on own navamsha and rashi chart and how he's read it.//> Ha..Ha... In the whole book CSP was speaking based on his horoscope itself. But at the end he also says the following, since the same is NOT supported by any classics, that - "From research point of view, students may try" (Ref. P.203). And then he goes on to speak about - and to give an example for - How to read Divisional chart starting from Lagnamsaka as done by neelam ji and all now a days. Actually at the end CSP points to two things he couldn't find even a single reference to -> 1) Applying Ashtaka varga to Navamsa> 2) Navamsa chart reading (as popular today) starting from LagnamsaKA> In his own words - "The author, during his study of last 50 years has not come across any authority in classical texts, about applying Ashtakavarga to navamsa or any other Varga Chart. From research pont of view, students may try"; Then he goes on to give the "navamsa chart reading starting from lagnamsaKA" as pointed out by Neelam ji. > So the point is -> * CSP was a very sincere astrologer, and he won't approve something if he couldn't find a clear reference to the same. He couldn't find any reference to BOTH Ashtaka varga to navamsa or to the popular practice of reading navamsa chart starting from lagnamsaKA and so he moved it to the end of his book - with a note "From research point of view, students may try". Ha..Ha.. Clever he is! > Any way the point to be accepted is that - He was not against drawing Navamsaka planetary placement as a separate chart; but he never read it as an independent chart. This is the very reason for 2 statements kept him thinking for 40+ years (Ref. P.1). The statements under question are - "Prayo navamsa akhilam" [ALMOST all results can be predicted by considering Navamsa alone] and "Jatakaphalam navamse" [(Almsot all)Horoscope results can be predicted using Navamsa (alone)]. He was keep thinking how is it possible when Navamsa is just a depended component of the Rasi chart (and NOT independent)? I will elaborate a bit more on this later in another mail. > Love and regards,> Sreenadh

[Guest guest]

Dear All, In the previous mail I told about CSP -//He was not against drawing Navamsaka planetary placement as a separate chart; but he never read it as an independent chart. This is the very reason for 2 statements kept him thinking

for 40+ years (Ref. P.1). The statements under question are - "Prayo navamsa akhilam" [ALMOST all results can be predicted by considering Navamsa alone] and "Jatakaphalam navamse" [(Almsot all)Horoscope results can be predicted using Navamsa (alone)]. He was keep thinking how is it possible when Navamsa is just a depended component of the Rasi chart (and NOT independent)? // If he knew that there are many similar quotes which say that "ALL/EVERYTHING can be predicted with this alone" - even for some very simple tools - but those statements are not always correct and cannot be taken in the literal sense; but are intended to ignite our inquisitiveness in that direction only - he might not have given this much importance to those statements. Anyway, since those quotes left him thinking for 40 years, but it benefited us much as his writings - good for us! Some other samples to "Every thing can be predicted with this tool" kind of statements are - * While dealing with "observing omens from betel leaves and Prashns using betel leaves" Prashnamarga states "TamboolaiH prashtudattairapi phalam akhilam tasya vaktavyamevam" (ALL the results related to the qurent can be predicted using betel leaves alone!) * A text on Ashtamangala prashna named "Prashna Kautuka" states that - "Plevena bhotam sakalam vichintyam" (The WHOLE HISTORY of the temple can be analyzed in detail and results derived just by observing the slope of gold coin used for Ashtamangala prahsna alone!) If someone starts running after such quotes - that just intends to generate awe and thus ignite our curiosity - are taken us (believed to be) 100% true and if we start running after them - then, certainly our knowledgebase would increase and others will get benefited from our knowledge (just like in CSP's case) but the at the end it will become clear to us that - the original "Everything can be predicted with this ALONE" statement - was FALSE. Same is true for the above quotes CSP is referring to as well. He was thinking how is it possible when Navamsa is just a depended component of the Rasi chart (and NOT independent)? And at the end, his doubt proved to be true and not those statements. The extra knowledge he gained about Navamsa and the benefit we got since he shared it is the story inbetween. So from our perspective it was good that those statements kept him thinking for 40+ years. Just sharing some thoughts. Love and regards,Sreenadh , "sreesog" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Neelam ji, > Please permit me to address these points one by one.> //> There is liberal use of reckonings from lagna amshas by CS Patel. Trasits and aspects are also discussed in details. Please check these from his book Navamsha in Astrology. They are all accompanied by quotes.//> We will cross check that and his references.> > Point -1> =========> //> (pls refer to pp 13-17) 22nd Dreshkan is reckoned from lagna Dreshkan. 64th Navamsha from lagna and moon navamsha and is called Sanghatika. There should be no planet in the 55th Navamsha from lagna navamsha at the time of marriage. What we broadly recommend as no planet in 7H. Certain other places from lagna/moon's navamsha have been recommended which can be better seen in a chart erected with rising navamsa. These are 36th Nav (square), 72nd Navamsha (called Vainashiskam), 96th Navamsha (Manasam) etc.///> We are not at all against any of these points. For example - He is speaking about "Lagna NAVAMSA" and not about Lagna NAVAMSAKA.> Please note that it is all about - > * 22nd Drekkana from Lagana Drekkana - i.e. 1/3rd of Sign within Lagna sign (and NOT about Drekkana AmsaKA - i.e. The sign on which Drekkana amsa falls)> * 66th Navamsa from Lagna Navamsa i.e. Lagnamsa - i.e. 1/9 of Sign within Lagna sign (and NOT about LagnamsaKA - i.e. The sign on which the Lagna navamsa - lagnamsa - falls)> The same is true for all the other Amsas he speak about. This is in tune with the traditional approach and NOT COUNTING FROM LagnamsaKA is required. What is under consideration is the divisions of Signs such as Navamsa, Drakkana etc and NOT the sign on which it falls (or the sign to which the lordship is ascribed to). > When you consider the sign on which the amsa falls (i.e. when you consider the AmsaKA instead of Amsa) - you are shifting the starting point (focal point) itself - and then the derivations are not in tune with and not as guided by the classics. Hope I have clarified this issue. The sign of which Amsa is part of and the sign to which its lorship is ascribed to are entirely different. For example Aries 2nd amsa is part of Aried, but the sign to which its lordship is ascribed to is Taurus - hope you see the difference. All the references above given by CSP is to Amsa and NOT to AmsaKA.> > Point -2> ========> //> Transit of planets on all these points have also been described. In fact, the author recommends the use of 64th navamsha from all planets. Use of terms like Bhavottama ad trikonge/trikonke (pp 20)//> > This is well and good and as in tune with the tradition and is "about the transit of planets in Rasi chart itself"! What is wrong in it. Let us take an example.> For an Aries 2nd Navamsa born (Taurus NavamsaKa) native, 64th Navamsa is 2nd Navamsa of Scorpio (and navamsaKA of of 2nd navamsa of Scorpio is Leo - i.e. 2nd navamsa of Scorpio falls in Leo). Now the transit a malefic planet through 8th house, especially through the 64th navamsa from lagnamsa (i.e. through Scorpio second navamsa) would OBVIOUSLY be dangerous! Because the malefic planet is not only in his 8th house, but in exactly the sharp 8th house navamsa (64th namamsa) of the native! This is what CSP is speaking about. Please note that here the transit is happening in the Rasi chart itself. The point is if the malefic planet is traversing through 8th house, and there also through the 64th navamsa it would be deadly. Clear and crisp. > Actually traditional astrology puts forward one more point - even if the transit of the malefic planet is through Leo in the above example (i.e. through the 64th NavamsaKA sign) then too some bad results can be predicted - even though not strong as while the transit is through 64th navamsa - i.e. 8th house. > Thus in this case also CSP is speaking nothing against Traditional astrology; and nothing about considering transit in navamsaKA chart (D-9 chart) starting from LagnamsaKA. The above discussion is NOT about transit in Navamaka chart at all, but about transit in Natal chart (through navamsas).> //> Transits of planets on Navamshas occupied by various lords are well described with quotes, specially chapter 10.//> This statement is also from the same confusion, clarified above.> > Point -3> ========> //> Aspects in Navamsha (pp 178-180)//> The whole section is a translation of quotes present in Brihat Jataka, Saravali and Meeraja hora and nothing else. For example let us take the first sentence from that chapter itself.> "If the Moon is at the time of a person's birth be conjoined in the Navamsa of Aries or Scorpio and be at the same time aspected by the Sun, he will be courageous, will punish thieves, will be reputed and will be protector of a city".> This is nothing but the elaboration of the first word of the quote "Arakshako vadharuchi kusalo niyudhe...." in Brihat Jataka 16th chapter, by considering the results provided by Meenaraja hora as well. > [i am speaking from memory here, and mistakes, if any, I will correct later]> Here a minor mistake is committed by CSP in not using the word NavamsaKA instead of the word Navamsa. Here is the quote is about Moon's navamsa falling in Aries NavamsaKA. It is better to modify the above statement of CSP as follows for better understanding -> "If the Moon is at the time of a person's birth be conjoined in the NavamsaKA of Aries or Scorpio and be at the same time (Moon is) aspected by the Sun, he will be courageous, will punish thieves, will be reputed and will be protector of a city".> Here the point to be noted is that - it is Moon who is aspected by Sun and it is Moon's navamsaKA that is Aries (i.e. Moon Navamsa falls in Aries). > Let us try to understand what it really means (Let us consider Aries only for better understanding) -> * "Moon at the time of birth is conjoned in the Navamsa of Aries" Meaning, Moon is placed in some sign, and Moon's Navamsa falls in Aries. "at the same time aspected by the Sun" Meaning 2 conditions should be met at the same. First, Moon's NavamsaKa should be Aries, and Second, Sun should aspect Moon. It is simple and straight. This is the combination.> * "he will be courageous, will punish thieves, will be reputed and will be protector of a city". OK - that is the result to be predicted.> Now Moon can have Aries NavamsaKA -> 1) If it is placed in the 1st navamsa of Aries> 2) If it is placed in the 4th navamsa of Taurus and so on.> Thus in short, here also it is evident that CSP is speaking about the Drishti of planets in Natal chart only (and NOT in a chart with LagnamsaKA as starting point). But the extra point is that two conditions are considered in the classics, out of which one is about Drishti between planets in natal chart, and the other is about their NavamsaKA in various signs. > Hope I have clarified this confusion. > > Point -4> ========> //> Last page: please see his explanation on own navamsha and rashi chart and how he's read it.//> Ha..Ha... In the whole book CSP was speaking based on his horoscope itself. But at the end he also says the following, since the same is NOT supported by any classics, that - "From research point of view, students may try" (Ref. P.203). And then he goes on to speak about - and to give an example for - How to read Divisional chart starting from Lagnamsaka as done by neelam ji and all now a days. Actually at the end CSP points to two things he couldn't find even a single reference to -> 1) Applying Ashtaka varga to Navamsa> 2) Navamsa chart reading (as popular today) starting from LagnamsaKA> In his own words - "The author, during his study of last 50 years has not come across any authority in classical texts, about applying Ashtakavarga to navamsa or any other Varga Chart. From research pont of view, students may try"; Then he goes on to give the "navamsa chart reading starting from lagnamsaKA" as pointed out by Neelam ji. > So the point is -> * CSP was a very sincere astrologer, and he won't approve something if he couldn't find a clear reference to the same. He couldn't find any reference to BOTH Ashtaka varga to navamsa or to the popular practice of reading navamsa chart starting from lagnamsaKA and so he moved it to the end of his book - with a note "From research point of view, students may try". Ha..Ha.. Clever he is! > Any way the point to be accepted is that - He was not against drawing Navamsaka planetary placement as a separate chart; but he never read it as an independent chart. This is the very reason for 2 statements kept him thinking for 40+ years (Ref. P.1). The statements under question are - "Prayo navamsa akhilam" [ALMOST all results can be predicted by considering Navamsa alone] and "Jatakaphalam navamse" [(Almsot all)Horoscope results can be predicted using Navamsa (alone)]. He was keep thinking how is it possible when Navamsa is just a depended component of the Rasi chart (and NOT independent)? I will elaborate a bit more on this later in another mail. > Love and regards,> Sreenadh

[Guest guest]

Dear Goel Ji,

 

Regarding your articles, could you kindly let us know which classic talks about the Bhava Vargottam concept? It seems like a brand new concept. Is this some thing that you have developed yourself from your research?

Regards,

-Manoj

 

 

 

 

 

gopal krishna goel <g.k.goel Sent: Tue, October 13, 2009 9:02:32 AMRE: Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

DEAR friends, In BPHS CH 6 Shloka 2,3and 4 ,Parasara teaches us: "Lord Brahma has described 16 vargas .Listen to those. The same are rasi , hora , drekkana , chathurthamsa and so on ( he lists all the 16 varga.If Rasi chart is to be constructed so as the charts of other varga(s).If some person wish to take first step and then does not wish to take second , third and further steps ,it is entirely for him.Let not bring sages and classics into it.I have mailed three articles to Dr. Neelam Gupta for posting them in file section.Every savants can use these methods easily .Regards,G. K. Goel

 

ancient_indian_ astrologyneelamgupta07@ gmail.comTue, 13 Oct 2009 19:59:28 +0530Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

 

Dear Goel ji,That is what we have been telling Sreenadh ji. How to make a spreadsheet to study what has been given in the classics is upto us. Whether we study on the same chart or prepare separate charts or do an entirely mental exercise, it does not matter and does not require any sanction. But Sreenadh ji thinks that the way we read those varga charts is wrong and baseless and there is no classical sanction on that. We must not read the charts from lagnamsha he maintains. The amshas ca only be superimposed on Rashi chart. Please go through the discussions and contribute your views.RegardsNeelam

2009/10/13 gopal krishna goel <g.k.goel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>

 

 

DEAR NEELAM JI AND KURSIJA JI,I am unable to understand the controversy on varga charts.Nativities and varga charts ,no more or no less, are mapping ofplanetary positions with respect to bhavas and signs.Are any instructions are required from sages?Regards,G. K. Goel

 

ancient_indian_ astrologysckursija Mon, 12 Oct 2009 07:16:04 -0700

Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Neelam ji,

I agree with you. we create separate chart as navamsha, but Sreenadh use only Rashi chart and see the sign that planet occupy in navamsha. Sh Chandu lal S. Patel read the navamsha chart in the similar manner. In his book navamsha and Nadi astrology chpter 2 page 11, he give a chart as "The native is born in Virgo Ascendant, in the Sun's Hora, in Capricorn Drekkan, in Taurus Navamsha and Jupiters's trimsamsa".The Sun is in the sign of Pisces in conjunction with Venus. So Sun is in Sagittarius navamsha which falls in 4th house of rashi chart so Sun is sukhamshayukta

Venus is Aquarius in navamsha which falls in 6th house of rashi chart so Venus is in shashtamshayukta and so on, We can read the planet in rashi chart with reference with varga amsha as Horamshayukta, Drekkanamshayukta or navamamshayukta etc.

Regards

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Pranams,Mr.Manoj Chandran ji and Goel ji,I think Lagna vargothma is in vogue;when Lagna attains vargothma it goes without saying all Bhavas naturally becomes vargothma - am I right,Sir?Regards/Dhananjayan--- On Wed, 14/10/09, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj wrote:Manoj Chandran

<chandran_manojRe: Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions) Date: Wednesday, 14 October, 2009, 5:19 AM

 

 

 

Dear Goel Ji,

 

Regarding your articles, could you kindly let us know which classic talks about the Bhava Vargottam concept? It seems like a brand new concept. Is this some thing that you have developed yourself from your research?

Regards,

-Manoj

 

 

 

 

 

gopal krishna goel <g.k.goel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>ancient_indian_ astrologyTue, October 13, 2009 9:02:32 AMRE: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

DEAR friends, In BPHS CH 6 Shloka 2,3and 4 ,Parasara teaches us: "Lord Brahma has described 16 vargas .Listen to those. The same are rasi , hora , drekkana , chathurthamsa and so on ( he lists all the 16 varga.If Rasi chart is to be constructed so as the charts of other varga(s).If some person wish to take first step and then does not wish to take second , third and further steps ,it is entirely for him.Let not bring sages and classics into it.I have mailed three articles to Dr. Neelam Gupta for posting them in file section.Every savants can use these methods easily .Regards,G. K. Goel

 

ancient_indian_ astrologyneelamgupta07@ gmail.comTue, 13 Oct 2009 19:59:28 +0530Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

 

Dear Goel ji,That is what we have been telling Sreenadh ji. How to make a spreadsheet to study what has been given in the classics is upto us. Whether we study on the same chart or prepare separate charts or do an entirely mental exercise, it does not matter and does not require any sanction. But Sreenadh ji thinks that the way we read those varga charts is wrong and baseless and there is no classical sanction on that. We must not read the charts from lagnamsha he maintains. The amshas ca only be superimposed on Rashi chart. Please go through the discussions and contribute your views.RegardsNeelam

2009/10/13 gopal krishna goel <g.k.goel (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>

 

 

DEAR NEELAM JI AND KURSIJA JI,I am unable to understand the controversy on varga charts.Nativities and varga charts ,no more or no less, are mapping ofplanetary positions with respect to bhavas and signs.Are any instructions are required from sages?Regards,G. K. Goel

 

ancient_indian_ astrologysckursija Mon, 12 Oct 2009 07:16:04 -0700

Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Neelam ji,

I agree with you. we create separate chart as navamsha, but Sreenadh use only Rashi chart and see the sign that planet occupy in navamsha. Sh Chandu lal S. Patel read the navamsha chart in the similar manner. In his book navamsha and Nadi astrology chpter 2 page 11, he give a chart as "The native is born in Virgo Ascendant, in the Sun's Hora, in Capricorn Drekkan, in Taurus Navamsha and Jupiters's trimsamsa".The Sun is in the sign of Pisces in conjunction with Venus. So Sun is in Sagittarius navamsha which falls in 4th house of rashi chart so Sun is sukhamshayukta

Venus is Aquarius in navamsha which falls in 6th house of rashi chart so Venus is in shashtamshayukta and so on, We can read the planet in rashi chart with reference with varga amsha as Horamshayukta, Drekkanamshayukta or navamamshayukta etc.

Regards

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Dhananjayan Ji,

 

If you read Goel Ji's article you will realize that he is not talking about Lagan Vargottam and all the "Bhavas" being hence Vargottam. What he refers to as "Bhava Vargottam" is a different concept.

 

For example if a Graha is in the 4th house from Lagna in Rashi Chart and also in the 4th house from Lagna in a Varga chart (even if Lagna is not Vargottam in that Varga), then according to him, that Graha is "4th house Vargottam" for that Varga and hence is supposed to enhance the traits of that Bhava related to that Varga. Goel Ji can correct me if I am wrong.

 

This is a novel concept because Vargottam is usually only associated with Rashis and not with Bhavas.

Regards,

-Manoj

 

 

 

 

 

Dhananjayan Brahma <abhanaya Cc: chandran_manojSent: Tue, October 13, 2009 9:02:16 PMRe: Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

 

 

 

 

Pranams,Mr.Manoj Chandran ji and Goel ji,I think Lagna vargothma is in vogue;when Lagna attains vargothma it goes without saying all Bhavas naturally becomes vargothma - am I right,Sir?Regards/Dhananjayan--- On Wed, 14/10/09, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj@ > wrote:

Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj@ >Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)ancient_indian_ astrologyWednesday, 14 October, 2009, 5:19 AM

 

 

 

Dear Goel Ji,

 

Regarding your articles, could you kindly let us know which classic talks about the Bhava Vargottam concept? It seems like a brand new concept. Is this some thing that you have developed yourself from your research?

Regards,

-Manoj

[Guest guest]

I have attended one ashtamangala prashana session conducted by Namboodri Brahmins at Malai Mandir, R.K. Puram, New Delhi and found them giving correct predictions from Tamboola Patrams.

 

regards,

 

Mouji

 

 

 

sreesog <sreesog Sent: Wed, October 14, 2009 1:31:24 AM Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

Dear All, In the previous mail I told about CSP -//He was not against drawing Navamsaka planetary placement as a separate chart; but he never read it as an independent chart. This is the very reason for 2 statements kept him thinkingfor 40+ years (Ref. P.1). The statements under question are - "Prayo navamsa akhilam" [ALMOST all results can be predicted by considering Navamsa alone] and "Jatakaphalam navamse" [(Almsot all)Horoscope results can be predicted using Navamsa (alone)]. He was keep thinking how is it possible when Navamsa is just a depended component of the Rasi chart (and NOT independent) ? // If he knew that there are many similar quotes which say that "ALL/EVERYTHING can be predicted with this alone" - even for some very simple tools - but those statements are not always correct and cannot be taken in the literal sense; but are intended to

ignite our inquisitiveness in that direction only - he might not have given this much importance to those statements. Anyway, since those quotes left him thinking for 40 years, but it benefited us much as his writings - good for us! Some other samples to "Every thing can be predicted with this tool" kind of statements are - * While dealing with "observing omens from betel leaves and Prashns using betel leaves" Prashnamarga states "TamboolaiH prashtudattairapi phalam akhilam tasya vaktavyamevam" (ALL the results related to the qurent can be predicted using betel leaves alone!) * A text on Ashtamangala prashna named "Prashna Kautuka" states that - "Plevena bhotam sakalam vichintyam" (The WHOLE HISTORY of the temple can be analyzed in detail and results derived just by observing the slope of gold coin used for Ashtamangala

prahsna alone!) If someone starts running after such quotes - that just intends to generate awe and thus ignite our curiosity - are taken us (believed to be) 100% true and if we start running after them - then, certainly our knowledgebase would increase and others will get benefited from our knowledge (just like in CSP's case) but the at the end it will become clear to us that - the original "Everything can be predicted with this ALONE" statement - was FALSE. Same is true for the above quotes CSP is referring to as well. He was thinking how is it possible when Navamsa is just a depended component of the Rasi chart (and NOT independent) ? And at the end, his doubt proved to be true and not those statements. The extra knowledge he gained about Navamsa and the benefit we got since he shared it is the story inbetween. So from our perspective it was good that those statements kept him thinking for 40+ years. Just sharing some thoughts. Love and regards,Sreenadhancient_indian_ astrology, "sreesog" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Neelam ji, > Please permit me to address these points one by one.> //> There is liberal use of reckonings from lagna amshas by CS Patel. Trasits and aspects are also discussed in details. Please check these from his book Navamsha in Astrology. They are all accompanied by quotes.//> We will cross check that and his references.> > Point -1> =========> //> (pls refer to pp 13-17) 22nd Dreshkan is reckoned from lagna Dreshkan. 64th Navamsha from lagna and moon navamsha and is called Sanghatika. There should be no planet in the

55th Navamsha from lagna navamsha at the time of marriage. What we broadly recommend as no planet in 7H. Certain other places from lagna/moon's navamsha have been recommended which can be better seen in a chart erected with rising navamsa. These are 36th Nav (square), 72nd Navamsha (called Vainashiskam) , 96th Navamsha (Manasam) etc.///> We are not at all against any of these points. For example - He is speaking about "Lagna NAVAMSA" and not about Lagna NAVAMSAKA.> Please note that it is all about - > * 22nd Drekkana from Lagana Drekkana - i.e. 1/3rd of Sign within Lagna sign (and NOT about Drekkana AmsaKA - i.e. The sign on which Drekkana amsa falls)> * 66th Navamsa from Lagna Navamsa i.e. Lagnamsa - i.e. 1/9 of Sign within Lagna sign (and NOT about LagnamsaKA - i.e. The sign on which the Lagna navamsa - lagnamsa - falls)> The same is true for all the other Amsas he speak about. This is in tune with the traditional

approach and NOT COUNTING FROM LagnamsaKA is required. What is under consideration is the divisions of Signs such as Navamsa, Drakkana etc and NOT the sign on which it falls (or the sign to which the lordship is ascribed to). > When you consider the sign on which the amsa falls (i.e. when you consider the AmsaKA instead of Amsa) - you are shifting the starting point (focal point) itself - and then the derivations are not in tune with and not as guided by the classics. Hope I have clarified this issue. The sign of which Amsa is part of and the sign to which its lorship is ascribed to are entirely different. For example Aries 2nd amsa is part of Aried, but the sign to which its lordship is ascribed to is Taurus - hope you see the difference. All the references above given by CSP is to Amsa and NOT to AmsaKA.> > Point -2> ========> //> Transit of planets on all these points have also been described. In fact, the author

recommends the use of 64th navamsha from all planets. Use of terms like Bhavottama ad trikonge/trikonke (pp 20)//> > This is well and good and as in tune with the tradition and is "about the transit of planets in Rasi chart itself"! What is wrong in it. Let us take an example.> For an Aries 2nd Navamsa born (Taurus NavamsaKa) native, 64th Navamsa is 2nd Navamsa of Scorpio (and navamsaKA of of 2nd navamsa of Scorpio is Leo - i.e. 2nd navamsa of Scorpio falls in Leo). Now the transit a malefic planet through 8th house, especially through the 64th navamsa from lagnamsa (i.e. through Scorpio second navamsa) would OBVIOUSLY be dangerous! Because the malefic planet is not only in his 8th house, but in exactly the sharp 8th house navamsa (64th namamsa) of the native! This is what CSP is speaking about. Please note that here the transit is happening in the Rasi chart itself. The point is if the malefic planet is traversing through 8th

house, and there also through the 64th navamsa it would be deadly. Clear and crisp. > Actually traditional astrology puts forward one more point - even if the transit of the malefic planet is through Leo in the above example (i.e. through the 64th NavamsaKA sign) then too some bad results can be predicted - even though not strong as while the transit is through 64th navamsa - i.e. 8th house. > Thus in this case also CSP is speaking nothing against Traditional astrology; and nothing about considering transit in navamsaKA chart (D-9 chart) starting from LagnamsaKA. The above discussion is NOT about transit in Navamaka chart at all, but about transit in Natal chart (through navamsas).> //> Transits of planets on Navamshas occupied by various lords are well described with quotes, specially chapter 10.//> This statement is also from the same confusion, clarified above.> > Point -3> ========> //>

Aspects in Navamsha (pp 178-180)//> The whole section is a translation of quotes present in Brihat Jataka, Saravali and Meeraja hora and nothing else. For example let us take the first sentence from that chapter itself.> "If the Moon is at the time of a person's birth be conjoined in the Navamsa of Aries or Scorpio and be at the same time aspected by the Sun, he will be courageous, will punish thieves, will be reputed and will be protector of a city".> This is nothing but the elaboration of the first word of the quote "Arakshako vadharuchi kusalo niyudhe...." in Brihat Jataka 16th chapter, by considering the results provided by Meenaraja hora as well. > [i am speaking from memory here, and mistakes, if any, I will correct later]> Here a minor mistake is committed by CSP in not using the word NavamsaKA instead of the word Navamsa. Here is the quote is about Moon's navamsa falling in Aries NavamsaKA. It is better to

modify the above statement of CSP as follows for better understanding -> "If the Moon is at the time of a person's birth be conjoined in the NavamsaKA of Aries or Scorpio and be at the same time (Moon is) aspected by the Sun, he will be courageous, will punish thieves, will be reputed and will be protector of a city".> Here the point to be noted is that - it is Moon who is aspected by Sun and it is Moon's navamsaKA that is Aries (i.e. Moon Navamsa falls in Aries). > Let us try to understand what it really means (Let us consider Aries only for better understanding) -> * "Moon at the time of birth is conjoned in the Navamsa of Aries" Meaning, Moon is placed in some sign, and Moon's Navamsa falls in Aries. "at the same time aspected by the Sun" Meaning 2 conditions should be met at the same. First, Moon's NavamsaKa should be Aries, and Second, Sun should aspect Moon. It is simple and straight. This is the combination.> *

"he will be courageous, will punish thieves, will be reputed and will be protector of a city". OK - that is the result to be predicted.> Now Moon can have Aries NavamsaKA -> 1) If it is placed in the 1st navamsa of Aries> 2) If it is placed in the 4th navamsa of Taurus and so on.> Thus in short, here also it is evident that CSP is speaking about the Drishti of planets in Natal chart only (and NOT in a chart with LagnamsaKA as starting point). But the extra point is that two conditions are considered in the classics, out of which one is about Drishti between planets in natal chart, and the other is about their NavamsaKA in various signs. > Hope I have clarified this confusion. > > Point -4> ========> //> Last page: please see his explanation on own navamsha and rashi chart and how he's read it.//> Ha..Ha... In the whole book CSP was speaking based on his horoscope itself. But at the

end he also says the following, since the same is NOT supported by any classics, that - "From research point of view, students may try" (Ref. P.203). And then he goes on to speak about - and to give an example for - How to read Divisional chart starting from Lagnamsaka as done by neelam ji and all now a days. Actually at the end CSP points to two things he couldn't find even a single reference to -> 1) Applying Ashtaka varga to Navamsa> 2) Navamsa chart reading (as popular today) starting from LagnamsaKA> In his own words - "The author, during his study of last 50 years has not come across any authority in classical texts, about applying Ashtakavarga to navamsa or any other Varga Chart. From research pont of view, students may try"; Then he goes on to give the "navamsa chart reading starting from lagnamsaKA" as pointed out by Neelam ji. > So the point is -> * CSP was a very sincere astrologer, and he won't approve

something if he couldn't find a clear reference to the same. He couldn't find any reference to BOTH Ashtaka varga to navamsa or to the popular practice of reading navamsa chart starting from lagnamsaKA and so he moved it to the end of his book - with a note "From research point of view, students may try". Ha..Ha.. Clever he is! > Any way the point to be accepted is that - He was not against drawing Navamsaka planetary placement as a separate chart; but he never read it as an independent chart. This is the very reason for 2 statements kept him thinking for 40+ years (Ref. P.1). The statements under question are - "Prayo navamsa akhilam" [ALMOST all results can be predicted by considering Navamsa alone] and "Jatakaphalam navamse" [(Almsot all)Horoscope results can be predicted using Navamsa (alone)]. He was keep thinking how is it possible when Navamsa is just a depended component of the Rasi chart (and NOT independent) ? I will elaborate a bit

more on this later in another mail. > Love and regards,> Sreenadh

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh ji,

 

Call it navamsha, navamshaka, amsha or even ansha, it remains the same. A Lotus remains a lotus whether you call it pankaj, jalaj, kamal, pankajam or by any other name. You are saying the same things as Neelam ji, but struggling to give it a name.

 

Whats in a name, is a famous saying. Proof of the pudding is in eating is another saying worth trying.

 

best wishes,

 

Mouji

 

 

 

sreesog <sreesog Sent: Wed, October 14, 2009 12:42:07 AM Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

Dear All, Some one may ask why even knowledgeable individuals like Neelam ji- who usually searches for ancient textual references and if only supported by the same follows/accepts certain advices - became mislead by the concepts such as "Transit in D-charts". There could be many answers - 1) KNR (Neelam ji's astro guru) supports it 2) May be her own experience/experime nts supports it 3) He misinterpretted some statements in CSP's book I don't want to address the first two questions. But I think that the 3rd point is important and should be addressed. * CSP picks up the "considering the navamsaka ALSO" in transit from some nadi texts such as Deva kerala and Brigu nadi. This much effort of going into Nadi text was not required, since the same concept is available in other standard astrological texts (such as Prashnamarga) as well. Anyway the quotes

given by him were such as (for example in the case of Saturn)- Tatad bahave ashtamesamse trikone va athava bhavet Sputayogam gate mande tattad bhava vinasanam (Deva Keralam) Meaning (in CSP's own words), "Saturn's transit in the sign identical with the navamsa occupied by the lord of 8th house from the given bhava or trine thereof on the the degree of that sign lord will destroy the good effects due to that bhava". Huh! He had made it too complex! It could have been said in a very simple way - "If Saturn transit the NavamsaKA of the 8th lord or its trines - with exact longitudinal match - it will destroy the good effects of 8th house (i.e. will cause problems to longevity)".

Presented mathematically, this means that - 1) Find, Longitude of 8th lord x 9 = NavamsaKA sputa of 8th lord 2) The Transit Saturn's longitude matches this longitude or its trines If so problems to longevity could happen. This is a simple and standard technique in use! Here the transit of planet is (as usual) through the Rasi chart itself, but the specialty is that the trouble is predicted when the planet traverse through the NavamsaKA sign or its trines. Clear and crisp - no issues. Is there anything new here? This is the same concept that we see - * When some one ask us to multiply lagna sputa by 81 and then say that the our Nakshatra would be in longitudinal agreement with this or its trines. * When some one say that, when some malefic planet travel through the trines of Trisphuta trouble is indicated. Or there are many many such instances and examples. To

be general either some Varga longitude or some special sputa (e.g. Trisputa in prashna) would be considered, and when benefic or malefic planet travels through that or its trines IN NATAL CHART positive or negative results would be predicted. Even though the transit of planet in the Natal Chart is the base, since the Divisional longitude (varga longitude) is also under consideration in such cases - THE HELP OF the Divisional longitude is a must in such cases. For example in the case of "Saturn in the trines of NavamsaKA longitude of 8th lord providing longevity problems" - even though the transit is happening in the Natal chart, considering NavamsaKA placement is a must. That is why CSP states - "All these transits discussed in this chapter can be observed WITH THE HELP OF the Navamsa chart only and not from the Rasi chart which should be noted". What he forgot to add is, "But not that the starting point of

transit should be Moon's position in Natal chart or of other planets in Natal chart". The people unfamiliar with the system failed to grasp this point and started arguing that CSP is speaking about transit in Navamsa charts! Alas! If they knew that it is a standard technique used in many places in traditional astrology, if they knew that what CSP told is absolutely right but what he didn't tell is what causing the problem, if they knew the traditional system from other sources other than CSP as well, if they could understand CSP better - If so any of these ifs where true this simple single sentence by CSP should not have caused confusion to scholars like Neelam ji! Yes, this must be one of the root statements that makes Neelam ji think that CSP is speaking about Transit in Navamsa chart. By the way, the correct wording to use should be NavamsaKA chart and NOT Navamsa chart. Why? Think that Sun is in 2nd navamsa of

Aries - i.e. Sun NavamsaKA is Taurus, or in other words the 2nd Navamsa of Aries falls in Taurus. So when we are marking Sun in Taurus, what do we mark? Are we marking Navamsa or Navamsaka? If we are marking "All the signs on which the Navamsas having planets is falling - i.e. if we are marking NavamsaKA positions of planets" what should we call it - Navamsa chart or NavamsaKA chart? I think technically speaking, "NavamsaKA chart is the correct terminology to be used". Anyway, this is not much important. So in short - the problem is not with the CSP's words, but about the way in which people understand it. CSP has direct knowledge about the system and tradition so his words convey clear meaning to the traditionalists. But for those don't have that direct access, the system is new and just like they do with some quotes of traditional system, they start misinterpretting CSP's words as well! Neelam ji asks -

// He (CSP ji) has hardly talked about results of planets in particular Navamshas. Why? Did he not know the traditional system which talked about such results?// I wonder what she think about the subject matter dealt with in chapter 17 to 20 in CSP's book! Are thy not results?! Anyway, there are hundreds of things and quotes CSP has not included in his book - some of them may not have come to him while writing the book, and some of them may not have been available to him while writing that book, and some of them he might thought that not suitable for the book and so on. There could be numerous reasons for something being not present in the book - CSP's book is not intended to be an encyclopedia on Navamsa, but only a helping/guiding tool. If someone demands that everything (here, related to Navamsa) should

be present in CSP's book itself, then it is his/her problem and not CSP's. Yes, there are NUMEROUS quotes on Navamsa and its application that are very much useful but not present in CSP's book. Let us not try to ascribe our own misunderstanding to CSP, but instead utilize CSP's book in the best possible way, and also assimilate all the other available results and concepts related to Navamsa; so that this or similar techniques can be applied to other Divsions and Dvisional longitudes as well. Love and regards,Sreenadh ancient_indian_ astrology, "sreesog" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Neelam ji, > Please permit me to address these points one by one.> //> There is liberal use of reckonings from lagna amshas by CS Patel. Trasits and aspects are also discussed

in details. Please check these from his book Navamsha in Astrology. They are all accompanied by quotes.//> We will cross check that and his references.> > Point -1> =========> //> (pls refer to pp 13-17) 22nd Dreshkan is reckoned from lagna Dreshkan. 64th Navamsha from lagna and moon navamsha and is called Sanghatika. There should be no planet in the 55th Navamsha from lagna navamsha at the time of marriage. What we broadly recommend as no planet in 7H. Certain other places from lagna/moon's navamsha have been recommended which can be better seen in a chart erected with rising navamsa. These are 36th Nav (square), 72nd Navamsha (called Vainashiskam) , 96th Navamsha (Manasam) etc.///> We are not at all against any of these points. For example - He is speaking about "Lagna NAVAMSA" and not about Lagna NAVAMSAKA.> Please note that it is all about - > * 22nd Drekkana from Lagana Drekkana - i.e.

1/3rd of Sign within Lagna sign (and NOT about Drekkana AmsaKA - i.e. The sign on which Drekkana amsa falls)> * 66th Navamsa from Lagna Navamsa i.e. Lagnamsa - i.e. 1/9 of Sign within Lagna sign (and NOT about LagnamsaKA - i.e. The sign on which the Lagna navamsa - lagnamsa - falls)> The same is true for all the other Amsas he speak about. This is in tune with the traditional approach and NOT COUNTING FROM LagnamsaKA is required. What is under consideration is the divisions of Signs such as Navamsa, Drakkana etc and NOT the sign on which it falls (or the sign to which the lordship is ascribed to). > When you consider the sign on which the amsa falls (i.e. when you consider the AmsaKA instead of Amsa) - you are shifting the starting point (focal point) itself - and then the derivations are not in tune with and not as guided by the classics. Hope I have clarified this issue. The sign of which Amsa is part of and the sign to which its

lorship is ascribed to are entirely different. For example Aries 2nd amsa is part of Aried, but the sign to which its lordship is ascribed to is Taurus - hope you see the difference. All the references above given by CSP is to Amsa and NOT to AmsaKA.> > Point -2> ========> //> Transit of planets on all these points have also been described. In fact, the author recommends the use of 64th navamsha from all planets. Use of terms like Bhavottama ad trikonge/trikonke (pp 20)//> > This is well and good and as in tune with the tradition and is "about the transit of planets in Rasi chart itself"! What is wrong in it. Let us take an example.> For an Aries 2nd Navamsa born (Taurus NavamsaKa) native, 64th Navamsa is 2nd Navamsa of Scorpio (and navamsaKA of of 2nd navamsa of Scorpio is Leo - i.e. 2nd navamsa of Scorpio falls in Leo). Now the transit a malefic planet through 8th house, especially through the 64th

navamsa from lagnamsa (i.e. through Scorpio second navamsa) would OBVIOUSLY be dangerous! Because the malefic planet is not only in his 8th house, but in exactly the sharp 8th house navamsa (64th namamsa) of the native! This is what CSP is speaking about. Please note that here the transit is happening in the Rasi chart itself. The point is if the malefic planet is traversing through 8th house, and there also through the 64th navamsa it would be deadly. Clear and crisp. > Actually traditional astrology puts forward one more point - even if the transit of the malefic planet is through Leo in the above example (i.e. through the 64th NavamsaKA sign) then too some bad results can be predicted - even though not strong as while the transit is through 64th navamsa - i.e. 8th house. > Thus in this case also CSP is speaking nothing against Traditional astrology; and nothing about considering transit in navamsaKA chart (D-9 chart) starting from

LagnamsaKA. The above discussion is NOT about transit in Navamaka chart at all, but about transit in Natal chart (through navamsas).> //> Transits of planets on Navamshas occupied by various lords are well described with quotes, specially chapter 10.//> This statement is also from the same confusion, clarified above.> > Point -3> ========> //> Aspects in Navamsha (pp 178-180)//> The whole section is a translation of quotes present in Brihat Jataka, Saravali and Meeraja hora and nothing else. For example let us take the first sentence from that chapter itself.> "If the Moon is at the time of a person's birth be conjoined in the Navamsa of Aries or Scorpio and be at the same time aspected by the Sun, he will be courageous, will punish thieves, will be reputed and will be protector of a city".> This is nothing but the elaboration of the first word of the quote "Arakshako vadharuchi kusalo

niyudhe...." in Brihat Jataka 16th chapter, by considering the results provided by Meenaraja hora as well. > [i am speaking from memory here, and mistakes, if any, I will correct later]> Here a minor mistake is committed by CSP in not using the word NavamsaKA instead of the word Navamsa. Here is the quote is about Moon's navamsa falling in Aries NavamsaKA. It is better to modify the above statement of CSP as follows for better understanding -> "If the Moon is at the time of a person's birth be conjoined in the NavamsaKA of Aries or Scorpio and be at the same time (Moon is) aspected by the Sun, he will be courageous, will punish thieves, will be reputed and will be protector of a city".> Here the point to be noted is that - it is Moon who is aspected by Sun and it is Moon's navamsaKA that is Aries (i.e. Moon Navamsa falls in Aries). > Let us try to understand what it really means (Let us consider Aries only for better

understanding) -> * "Moon at the time of birth is conjoned in the Navamsa of Aries" Meaning, Moon is placed in some sign, and Moon's Navamsa falls in Aries. "at the same time aspected by the Sun" Meaning 2 conditions should be met at the same. First, Moon's NavamsaKa should be Aries, and Second, Sun should aspect Moon. It is simple and straight. This is the combination.> * "he will be courageous, will punish thieves, will be reputed and will be protector of a city". OK - that is the result to be predicted.> Now Moon can have Aries NavamsaKA -> 1) If it is placed in the 1st navamsa of Aries> 2) If it is placed in the 4th navamsa of Taurus and so on.> Thus in short, here also it is evident that CSP is speaking about the Drishti of planets in Natal chart only (and NOT in a chart with LagnamsaKA as starting point). But the extra point is that two conditions are considered in the classics, out of which one is about

Drishti between planets in natal chart, and the other is about their NavamsaKA in various signs. > Hope I have clarified this confusion. > > Point -4> ========> //> Last page: please see his explanation on own navamsha and rashi chart and how he's read it.//> Ha..Ha... In the whole book CSP was speaking based on his horoscope itself. But at the end he also says the following, since the same is NOT supported by any classics, that - "From research point of view, students may try" (Ref. P.203). And then he goes on to speak about - and to give an example for - How to read Divisional chart starting from Lagnamsaka as done by neelam ji and all now a days. Actually at the end CSP points to two things he couldn't find even a single reference to -> 1) Applying Ashtaka varga to Navamsa> 2) Navamsa chart reading (as popular today) starting from LagnamsaKA> In his own words - "The author, during

his study of last 50 years has not come across any authority in classical texts, about applying Ashtakavarga to navamsa or any other Varga Chart. From research pont of view, students may try"; Then he goes on to give the "navamsa chart reading starting from lagnamsaKA" as pointed out by Neelam ji. > So the point is -> * CSP was a very sincere astrologer, and he won't approve something if he couldn't find a clear reference to the same. He couldn't find any reference to BOTH Ashtaka varga to navamsa or to the popular practice of reading navamsa chart starting from lagnamsaKA and so he moved it to the end of his book - with a note "From research point of view, students may try". Ha..Ha.. Clever he is! > Any way the point to be accepted is that - He was not against drawing Navamsaka planetary placement as a separate chart; but he never read it as an independent chart. This is the very reason for 2 statements kept him thinking for 40+

years (Ref. P.1). The statements under question are - "Prayo navamsa akhilam" [ALMOST all results can be predicted by considering Navamsa alone] and "Jatakaphalam navamse" [(Almsot all)Horoscope results can be predicted using Navamsa (alone)]. He was keep thinking how is it possible when Navamsa is just a depended component of the Rasi chart (and NOT independent) ? I will elaborate a bit more on this later in another mail. > Love and regards,> Sreenadh

[Guest guest]

Dear Manoj Chandran ji,

Most possibly there is no classical reference available for the term

" Bhavottam " . Then how could come into existence? I will try to explain.

Most possibly for all including Geol ji, collects this word from CSP's book

" Navamsa In Astrology " . In this book CSP states -

//Bhavottam:Bhavottam means a planet in same house in Rasi and Navamsa charts.

It enhances the good results of the house occupied. Research on this point is

necessary.//

This is nothing but the " Vargottama " concept in traditional astrology! Then

what is the difference? Vargottama means, a planet and its navamsa is in the

same SIGN. For traditionalists SIGN and HOUSE were the same (Every SIGN starting

from Lagna was considered as a HOUSE), and there was no need for any Bhavottam

concept. Vargottam concept in itself was well and good enough.

Now coming to CSP - He was a who would look into things from a mathematical

perspective; on the basis of longitudes. For him -

1) The Sign position of a planet meant the exact planetary longitude of

planet.

2) The Navamsa position of the planet meant the exact navamsaka longitude of

planet. Arrived at by using the calculation, Planetary longitude x 9 = Navamsaka

longitude of the planet.

This is well, ok, perfect - No conflict with the traditionalists.

Now He was a man who believed in the concept of House division; House as

different from Sign; like those which got proposed by Sripati or the like. A

deviation from the strict traditionalists! (For strict traditionalists Sign and

House meant the same; but for those who accepted Sripati Sign and House meant

different things covering different areas of the Zodiac!)

Here comes a problem! Take an example, where CSP would be looking into an

example Planetary longitude and its Navamsaka longitude. For example Lagna ins

Pisces 5th degree and Sun in Aries 1st degree.

(As an example case) For him the fist house starts from 5th degree of Pisces

upto 5th degree of Aries and not beyond.

 

Bust when he looks at what would he see?

* Planetary longitude of Sun = 00-01-00

* Navamsa longitude of Sun = (0-01-00) x 9 = 00-09-00

 

Certainly the the longitudes 00-01-00 (1st degree of Aries) and 00-09-00 (9th

degree of Aries), falls in Aries itself and thus the planet is in Vargottam. But

what about its Bhava (House) position? Since at 5th degree of Aries 1st house

ends, he may find that while Sun is in 1st house, Sun's Navamsa is in 2nd house!

Therefore Sun is NOT in " Vargottam " in the Bhava Chakra! So he found a new

terminology to point to such planetary placements - Bhavottam! i.e. " If planet

is in same BHAVA (HOUSE) in Rasi and Navamsa charts - it is in Bhavottam " !

Please note the following -

* A planet can be in Vargottam but not in Bhavottam

* A planet can be in Bhavottam but not in Vargottam

* A planet can be in Vargottam as well as in Bhavottam

It is an innovative concept, and this is the very reason for the statement

" Research on this point is necessary " .

I wonder whether he would have found, even a single reference in support of the

use of the word " Bhavottam " - he may or may not - I don't know. But most

possibly, he may not have is my opinion. Why?

Because if we reject the concept of Bhava (House) as separate from Sign; if we

accept the traditional view that " Sign and House mean the same " - then there is

no need for a concept like Bhavottam. Or in other words, even the ABSENCE of a

concept like Bhavottam in astro classics itself is a pointer to the fact that

for the sages - " Sign and House meant the same " .

Hope your doubt got clarified adequately.

Note 1: If Goel ji could provide a reference to the use of the word

" Bhavottam " - it would be a pleasure to see that. Then at least it can be said

that CSP had a traditional reference in support of in this case.

Note 2: For me the concept of Bhavottam is irrelevant since I trust that from

the traditional perspective " Sign and House meant the same " .

Love and regards,

Sreeandh

 

, Manoj Chandran

<chandran_manoj wrote:

>

> Dear Dhananjayan Ji,

>

> If you read Goel Ji's article you will realize that he is not talking about

Lagan Vargottam and all the " Bhavas " being hence Vargottam. What he refers to as

" Bhava Vargottam "  is a different concept.

>

>  For example if a Graha is in the 4th house from Lagna in Rashi Chart and

also in the 4th house from Lagna in a Varga chart (even if Lagna is not

Vargottam in that Varga), then according to him, that Graha is " 4th house

Vargottam " for that Varga and hence is supposed to enhance the traits of that

Bhava related to that Varga. Goel Ji can correct me if I am wrong.

>

> This is a novel concept because Vargottam is usually only associated with

Rashis and not with Bhavas.

>  

> Regards,

>  -Manoj

>  

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> Dhananjayan Brahma <abhanaya

>

> Cc: chandran_manoj

> Tue, October 13, 2009 9:02:16 PM

> Re: Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

>

>  

> Pranams,

> Mr.Manoj Chandran ji and Goel ji,

> I think Lagna vargothma is in vogue;when Lagna attains vargothma it goes

without saying all Bhavas naturally becomes vargothma - am I right,Sir?

>

> Regards/Dhananjayan

>

> --- On Wed, 14/10/09, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj@ > wrote:

>

>

> >Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj@ >

> >Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

> >ancient_indian_ astrology

> >Wednesday, 14 October, 2009, 5:19 AM

> >

> >

> > 

> >Dear Goel Ji,

> >

> >Regarding your articles, could you kindly let us know which classic talks

about the Bhava Vargottam concept? It seems like a brand new concept. Is

this some thing that you have developed yourself from your research?

> > 

> >Regards,

> > -Manoj

>