Application of Amsas (Divisions)

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh ji,

My D-Chart means divisional charts only. They are only magnified aspect of life of Rashi chart.

I forgot to write that the divisional chart are prepared on the basis of division of the lagna.

It means that that division of the lagna of the rashi chart reflection that aspect of life for which the divisional chart is prepared, such as from the ninth part of lagna we prepare the navamsha chart and it reflects the marital bliss. Why? According to Indian philosophy, marriage is Dharma Karma which is the duty of every father to get marry his son or her daughter. So navamsha is for the spouce.

Again the 9th part of the horoscope indicates the luck of the native. So navamsha chart should indicate the luck of the native also.

It is the extension of the navamsha chart that we presently see the strength of the planets from the navamsha and treat the divisional chart as independent by eminent astrologers..It makes me laugh when one see the yoga and aspect in the divisional charts.--- On Sat, 10/10/09, sreesog <sreesog wrote:

sreesog <sreesog Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions) Date: Saturday, October 10, 2009, 1:17 PM

 

Dear Kursija ji, Ussssssch!! Please DON'T use the word "D-chart", please use the word "Division" or "Amsa" or even "Varga" only to avoid confusion! I was speaking against D-charts and in support of Divisions the whole day and now you say/understand that I was supporting the nasty D-charts!!! What can I do! If you mean - "Our base is natal chart. Divisions only magnify the different aspect of life." - then I

agree. If you mean the nasty "D-Charts" itself, then they don't magnify or clarify anything at all! They only vertulize, makes imaginary, complicate, and destroy the reality and sincerity of astrology only by providing a thousand ways for "explanation/post mortom" and "not a single way for result derivation prior hand"! Love and regards,Sreenadh , "S.C. Kursija" <sckursija wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> Nice example of magnifying glass. Our base is natal chart. D-chart only magnify the different aspect of life.> Regards

[Guest guest]

Dear Utkal ji, //> Luckily I have something in my kitty to share with all, I have got

two charts in which Pisces lagna rising, In both the charts - Sun,

Merc, Venu moved to lagna, their birth time is slightly different and

they are born in two different states, one is a girl born in New Delhi

and the other is a guy born in Bhopal in MP. The Guy

suffers a serious disorder of brain, which is a side effect of another

disease and the Girl suffers epilepsy, unpredictable epilptical attack

is ruining her carreer.// Can you share the birth details of both that boy and girl?Love and regards,Sreenadh , "utkal.panigrahi" <utkal.panigrahi wrote:>> Dear Mr. Axeplex,> > The Prime Importance given to Rasi or Lagna chart and suppliment importance given to D charts, beautifully explains people born in the window of that lagna.> > Luckily I have something in my kitty to share with all, I have got two charts in which Pisces lagna rising, In both the charts - Sun, Merc, Venu moved to lagna, their birth time is slightly different and they are born in two different states, one is a girl born in New Delhi and the other is a guy born in Bhopal in MP.> > The Guy suffers a serious disorder of brain, which is a side effect of another disease and the Girl suffers epilepsy, unpredictable epilptical attack is ruining her carreer.> > Hope it clarifies to your as well as other's confusions, Similar configuration of planets impacted similar organ, which was brain in this case, however, in a slight different manner, which D charts could explain.> > Utkal.

[Guest guest]

Dear Utkal ji, 2nd house is self study; 4th house is formal (school/collage) education; 5th house is intellect; 9th house is chance of higher education.Love and regards,Sreenadh , "utkal.panigrahi" <utkal.panigrahi wrote:>> Dear Srinadh/Deva Ji,> > Fourth shows assimilation (hridiyangam) of what we study in Fifth, Fifth is the house of studying or learning (education), Do not take fourth house as prime significator of study.> > regards,> Utkal.

[Guest guest]

No, 4'th is not formal education, 4'th is what you have within you, after you

get the education in 5'th house, 4'th is bossom.

 

thanks and regards,

Utkal.

 

, " sreesog " <sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Utkal ji,

> 2nd house is self study; 4th house is formal (school/collage)

> education; 5th house is intellect; 9th house is chance of higher

> education.

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " utkal.panigrahi "

> <utkal.panigrahi@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Srinadh/Deva Ji,

> >

> > Fourth shows assimilation (hridiyangam) of what we study in Fifth,

> Fifth is the house of studying or learning (education), Do not take

> fourth house as prime significator of study.

> >

> > regards,

> > Utkal.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh ji,//Divisions also should be read starting from Natal Lagna itself, by super imposing Divisions on top of Rasi chart. //thank you for a nice and educative at the same time understanding post.I think there is no dispute/argument about that.Love and regards,gopi. , "sreesog" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Kursija ji,> It is very similar opinion that I also hold. For me -> * There is only one chart and that is Rasi chart.> * We are supposed to use Divisions to determine the exact quolity and> nature of signs and planets placed in them. Divisions help us to> "modify" the base results derived based on Rasi chart. Divisions also> should be read starting from Natal Lagna itself, by super imposing> Divisions on top of Rasi chart. We should study the divisions as> supportive to rashi chart, not as an independent chart.> Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > , "S.C. Kursija"> sckursija@ wrote:> >> > Respected Vandana Mishra,> > I agree with your. We should study the divisional chart as supportive> to rashi chart, not as an independent chart..> > Regards>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh ji and All,Sharing some views with a take it or leave it tag.:-)I respect Sreenadh ji’s fundamentalist approach, as his chosen path. He is an excellent scholar and if he follows a certain line of thought, it is fine and I do not have any problem. This is just to say that anything new and different may not be ABSURD, especially when it is backed by solid research.

Every branch of knowledge has an origin somewhere. What you now call ancient astrology today must have come from somewhere for which we’ve lost track. Fragments of ancient Rishi Horas, available with us are cryptic and terse. Complete understanding may not be there of many of the principles, applications etc. For such knowledge to be useful, to be applicable, it must be well and rightly understood, it should grow and evolve.

So astrology did not stop there. Just like other branches of knowledge, astrology was continuously fed with new ideas, new knowledge and research. We see a slightly modified astrology when astrologers like Parashara came in. There we find a crisper and clearer use of ‘divisions’. And we see a ‘divisional’ chart being erected. Still a lot of it was under wraps and not fully understood.

Knowledge is universal since human beings are same everywhere. What is applicable to a Keralite is to a Tamilian is to an Andhraite or a Kashmiri. We do not have much knowledge about where the Rishis lived, but later day astrologers were nicely spread all over India. The era of BV Raman and now KN Rao opened new doors for both astrology and astrologers from all regions. It reached out to people and became more open for fresh ideas and research. They have proved the immense utility of finer divisions beyond doubt through various predictions as well as postmortems.

If you try to see with a slightly open mind, you would find that there is hardly any difference in what you call as ‘reading amshas in a natal chart’ or what we call as a divisional chart which some authors also call an amsha indicator chart. Different divisions are add-on tools to judge the finer details about planets, I am sure you would agree. 

In our modern approach, we lay the spread as two separate charts instead of making our khichri on one chart. When we need to check various amshas, such as navamsha, saptamsha, dahamsha, etc., they all cannot be marked on one rashi chart. It would be too much confusion, specially for new learners. Separate charts make even the beginners understand well, though experienced astrolgers may not need to cast such separate charts.

Divisional charts are supplementary to the Rashi chart and complementary to each other. Without a Rashi chart to show the main road to be taken, divisional chart cannot be used to locate the address.

Divisional charts indicate the amsha sign positions taken by the nine planets which is visible clearly and distinctly when a separate chart is cast. This chart may now be used more imaginatively with various factors of rashi chart. One can see the positions from natal lagna and fine tune the results.

But the natal lagna also has got certain amsha. How are planets placed from that amsha and how they support or weaken the lagna amsha also becomes an important examination. Planets when placed from lagna amsha constitute the divisional chart. But is really no different from divisions being seen in natal chart of being placed in a separate blank kundli

 One can then play with this chart and see from dashanath, how various amshas are placed from dashanath’s amsha. See from moon, Sun, karaka etc. Transits on navamsha is another way to look for timing of events. Aspects in navamsha charts is yet another exploration which has been done by many astrolgers like Kalyan Varma, Dhundi Raja etc.

Nadi Literature and Sri CS Patel have advocated extensive use of Navamsha which is easier to examine when a separate Navamsha chakra or chart is cast.If you must draw a line up to what extent you would use these wonderful tools, it is upto you. There are many ways to skin a cat, as they say, but the best is to let the cat grow beyond the skin!!

All areas are open to research for a mind which can observe and question. We do start our knowledgebase from somewhere, but we need not jog at the same place. We must be able to add on to the existing knowledge, only then we can justify our presence. A knowledge which cannot grow and bear fruits is dead.

I am always ready to experiment and learn, even make my own ABSURD rules :-).I have shared my views. Please feel free to agree or disagree.RegardsNeelam

[Guest guest]

Dear All,I am sorry you all had to suffer my long mail just because Sreenadh ji scoffed at the word CHARTS suffixed to Divisions.:-)I actually feel there is no big difference, except in the way we are able to access the information and draw our own conclusions.

Roots and trunk are most important, but without branches, leaves and flowers the tree cannot leave any fruit for posterity.RegardsNeelam

[Guest guest]

This is perfect as i am using this for a long time.

 

Regards,

Vijay

 

, " sreesog " <sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Utkal ji,

> 2nd house is self study; 4th house is formal (school/collage)

> education; 5th house is intellect; 9th house is chance of higher

> education.

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " utkal.panigrahi "

> <utkal.panigrahi@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Srinadh/Deva Ji,

> >

> > Fourth shows assimilation (hridiyangam) of what we study in Fifth,

> Fifth is the house of studying or learning (education), Do not take

> fourth house as prime significator of study.

> >

> > regards,

> > Utkal.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam ji, That was refreshing and informative - even though I don't agree to many of the views expressed. But I appreciate your individuality, sincerity and will to select own path and express it with confidence. - that too in a beautiful way. These approaches (i.e. accepting D-Charts and not accepting D-charts) conflict but if proved useful in prediction (and not 'explanation') then certainly it is ok. But I will never be taking that path (i.e. use of D-charts) - because my approach differ and too orthodox and traditional. As you know that rigidity (strict border lines) are intentional because purification of the current knowledge base - by rejecting the non-coherent knowledge and integration of only the coherent knowledge (i.e. knowledge that is in tune with the fundamentals) - is the purpose; and the base tone of my approach. The Kichadi approach (that is usually followed by good and successful astrologers in the group such as Sunil Nair ji, Madhu ji, and now pointed to by Neelam ji) is well and good and much useful for predictive purpose - because at times it provides you to reach the solutions/answers without completing the total logical circle - but may not be much useful from a structural perspective; were editing/organizing/compiling/purifying of the available knowledge plays the major role. The difference is that - * I don't want to become a successful astrologer by taking any shortcut. * But instead want to compile and present the ancient knowledge in a systematic way so that the whole effort would be much beneficial to the posterity. Possibly it is this basic approach difference that makes Neelam ji support D-charts and me reject D-charts. But as you could see both the approaches are useful - first one, usually providing short term benefits to ourselves (through successful prediction and satisfaction) and the second, usually providing long term benefits to others and posterity. It is the our individual approach to a subject that decides, decreases or increases the ultimate value of our contribution. Let us have a story - It was a very hot season in the desert city he felt he will die if not nourished with water, he approached a computational individual sitting in near by house. Water was not much available there as well. The waste water from the near by newly constructed drainage was flowing near by. The wise man of the house, knew a technique to quench such thirst and to purity drainage water. He went to drainage took a glass of water, (using his hard earned technique of putting in some chlorine) somewhat disinfected the drainage water and gave to the thirsty one. The technique worked, and the thirsty one saved. He was thankful, expressed his gratitude and went away. Ofcourse the effort and help worthy and technique mastered appreciable. But there was another man working hard nearby to clean the cluttered and unused roadside well. Another thirsty individual went near him, but he didn't even payed attention to that individual and continued his own work. Months and years passed again the hot season came, and by now road side well was becoming much useful and quenching the thirst of many. The hosehold wiseman passed on his 'chlorine technique' to his children and someone was doing research on that too afterwords- but due to the presence of well full of pure water, people were not paying much attention to it. The point is - I don't reject or blame any successful technique beyond limit, but I will prefer the orthodox work of purifying the well rather than to follow a temporary solution, that too based on the newborn drainage and self learned techniques - that will be never liked or appreciated by the thirty ones in a hurry initially. Note: Please take the story in a lighter vain, I was just trying to drive a point home. Love and regards,Sreenadh , neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh ji and All,> > Sharing some views with a take it or leave it tag.:-)> > I respect Sreenadh ji's fundamentalist approach, as his chosen path. He is> an excellent scholar and if he follows a certain line of thought, it is fine> and I do not have any problem. This is just to say that anything new and> different may not be ABSURD, especially when it is backed by solid research.> > Every branch of knowledge has an origin somewhere. What you now call ancient> astrology today must have come from somewhere for which we've lost track.> Fragments of ancient Rishi Horas, available with us are cryptic and terse.> Complete understanding may not be there of many of the principles,> applications etc. For such knowledge to be useful, to be applicable, it must> be well and rightly understood, it should grow and evolve.> > So astrology did not stop there. Just like other branches of knowledge,> astrology was continuously fed with new ideas, new knowledge and research.> We see a slightly modified astrology when astrologers like Parashara came> in. There we find a crisper and clearer use of `divisions'. And we see a> `divisional' chart being erected. Still a lot of it was under wraps and not> fully understood.> > Knowledge is universal since human beings are same everywhere. What is> applicable to a Keralite is to a Tamilian is to an Andhraite or a Kashmiri.> We do not have much knowledge about where the Rishis lived, but later day> astrologers were nicely spread all over India. The era of BV Raman and now> KN Rao opened new doors for both astrology and astrologers from all regions.> It reached out to people and became more open for fresh ideas and research.> They have proved the immense utility of finer divisions beyond doubt through> various predictions as well as postmortems.> > If you try to see with a slightly open mind, you would find that there is> hardly any difference in what you call as `reading amshas in a natal chart'> or what we call as a divisional chart which some authors also call an amsha> indicator chart. Different divisions are add-on tools to judge the finer> details about planets, I am sure you would agree.> > In our modern approach, we lay the spread as two separate charts instead of> making our khichri on one chart. When we need to check various amshas, such> as navamsha, saptamsha, dahamsha, etc., they all cannot be marked on one> rashi chart. It would be too much confusion, specially for new learners.> Separate charts make even the beginners understand well, though experienced> astrolgers may not need to cast such separate charts.> > *Divisional charts are supplementary to the Rashi chart and complementary to> each other. *Without a Rashi chart to show the main road to be taken,> divisional chart cannot be used to locate the address.> > Divisional charts indicate the amsha sign positions taken by the nine> planets which is visible clearly and distinctly when a separate chart is> cast. This chart may now be used more imaginatively with various factors of> rashi chart. One can see the positions from natal lagna and fine tune the> results.> > But the natal lagna also has got certain amsha. How are planets placed from> that amsha and how they support or weaken the lagna amsha also becomes an> important examination. Planets when placed from lagna amsha constitute the> divisional chart. But is really no different from divisions being seen in> natal chart of being placed in a separate blank kundli> > One can then play with this chart and see from dashanath, how various amshas> are placed from dashanath's amsha. See from moon, Sun, karaka etc. Transits> on navamsha is another way to look for timing of events. Aspects in navamsha> charts is yet another exploration which has been done by many astrolgers> like Kalyan Varma, Dhundi Raja etc.> > Nadi Literature and Sri CS Patel have advocated extensive use of Navamsha> which is easier to examine when a separate Navamsha chakra or chart is cast.> > *If you must draw a line up to what extent you would use these wonderful> tools, it is upto you. There are many ways to skin a cat, as they say, but> the best is to let the cat grow beyond the skin!!*> > All areas are open to research for a mind which can observe and question. We> do start our knowledgebase from somewhere, but we need not jog at the same> place. We must be able to add on to the existing knowledge, only then we can> justify our presence. A knowledge which cannot grow and bear fruits is dead.> > I am always ready to experiment and learn, even make my own ABSURD rules> :-).> I have shared my views. Please feel free to agree or disagree.> > Regards> Neelam>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh ji,Thanks for the beautiful story and your views. I greatly respect your approach. //But as you could see both

the approaches are useful - first one, usually providing short term

benefits to ourselves (through successful prediction and satisfaction)

and the second, usually providing long term benefits to others and

posterity. //I am wondering why do you think reading D-charts is a shortcut and gives short term benefits? And why is it not pure knowledge?It has grown on the ancient knowledge only, an extended research on divisions as given in ancient texts. Knowledge must be augmented with observation and research. And if you do that, does it not remain pure. If so, there will be no line to demarcate where impurity will start.

//The Kichadi approach (that

is usually followed by good and successful astrologers in the group

such as Sunil Nair ji, Madhu ji, and now pointed to by Neelam ji)//Sorry, by khichri I didn't mean mixing of different approaches. What I meant was putting all amshas on natal chart itself. What I mean was why not erect separate charts for separate divisions.

Let us take an example. How will you read the Lagna which falls in Third Navamsha of Aries and Mars is in Cancer in 4th Navamsha? How will you mark it on the natal chart? How will you refer to the lagna navamsha?I still feel that there may be no difference in how you read the divisions and how we read them through divisional charts. Just a difference in operating systems if I may say!:-)

I am trying to find a line of compatibilty for the two systems.RegardsNeelam2009/10/10 sreesog <sreesog

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Neelam ji,   That was refreshing and informative - even though I don't agree to many of the views expressed. But I appreciate your individuality, sincerity and will to select own path and express it with confidence. - that too in a beautiful way.

  These approaches (i.e. accepting D-Charts and not accepting D-charts) conflict but if proved useful in prediction (and not 'explanation') then certainly it is ok. But I will never be taking that path (i.e. use of D-charts) - because my approach differ and too orthodox and traditional. As you know that rigidity (strict border lines) are intentional because purification of the current knowledge base - by rejecting the non-coherent knowledge and integration of only the coherent knowledge (i.e. knowledge that is in tune with the fundamentals) - is the purpose; and the base tone of my approach. 

  The Kichadi approach (that is usually followed by good and successful astrologers in the group such as Sunil Nair ji, Madhu ji, and now pointed to by Neelam ji) is well and good and much useful for predictive purpose - because at times it provides you to reach the solutions/answers without completing the total logical circle -  but may not be much useful from a structural perspective; were editing/organizing/compiling/purifying of the available knowledge plays the major role. The difference is that -

   * I don't want to become a successful astrologer by taking any shortcut.   *  But instead want to compile and present the ancient knowledge in a systematic way so that the whole effort would be much beneficial to the posterity. 

  Possibly it is this basic approach difference that makes Neelam ji support D-charts and me reject D-charts.   But as you could see both the approaches are useful - first one, usually providing short term benefits to ourselves (through successful prediction and satisfaction) and the second, usually providing long term benefits to others and posterity.

  It is the our individual approach to a subject that decides, decreases or increases the ultimate value of our contribution.   Let us have a story  -  It was a very hot season in the desert city he felt he will die if not nourished with water, he approached a computational individual sitting in near by house. Water was not much available there as well. The waste water from the near by newly constructed drainage was flowing near by. The wise man of the house, knew a technique to quench such thirst and to purity drainage water. He went to drainage took a glass of water, (using his hard earned technique of putting in some chlorine)  somewhat disinfected the drainage water and gave to the thirsty one. The technique worked, and the thirsty one saved. He was thankful, expressed his gratitude and went away. Ofcourse the effort and help worthy and technique mastered appreciable.

  But there was another man working hard nearby to clean the cluttered and unused roadside well. Another thirsty individual went near him, but he didn't even payed attention to that individual and continued his own work. Months and years passed again the hot season came, and by now road side well was becoming much useful and quenching the thirst of many.

  The hosehold wiseman passed on his 'chlorine technique' to his children and someone was doing research on that too afterwords- but due to the presence of well full of pure water, people were not paying much attention to it.

 The point is - I don't reject or blame any successful technique beyond limit, but I will prefer the orthodox work of purifying the well rather than to follow a temporary solution, that too based on the newborn drainage and self learned techniques - that will be never liked or appreciated by the thirty ones in a hurry initially.

  Note: Please take the story in a lighter vain, I was just trying to drive a point home. Love and regards,Sreenadh

, neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote:>

> Dear Sreenadh ji and All,> > Sharing some views with a take it or leave it tag.:-)> > I respect Sreenadh ji's fundamentalist approach, as his chosen path. He is> an excellent scholar and if he follows a certain line of thought, it is fine

> and I do not have any problem. This is just to say that anything new and> different may not be ABSURD, especially when it is backed by solid research.> > Every branch of knowledge has an origin somewhere. What you now call ancient

> astrology today must have come from somewhere for which we've lost track.> Fragments of ancient Rishi Horas, available with us are cryptic and terse.> Complete understanding may not be there of many of the principles,

> applications etc. For such knowledge to be useful, to be applicable, it must> be well and rightly understood, it should grow and evolve.> > So astrology did not stop there. Just like other branches of knowledge,

> astrology was continuously fed with new ideas, new knowledge and research.> We see a slightly modified astrology when astrologers like Parashara came> in. There we find a crisper and clearer use of `divisions'. And we see a

> `divisional' chart being erected. Still a lot of it was under wraps and not> fully understood.> > Knowledge is universal since human beings are same everywhere. What is> applicable to a Keralite is to a Tamilian is to an Andhraite or a Kashmiri.

> We do not have much knowledge about where the Rishis lived, but later day> astrologers were nicely spread all over India. The era of BV Raman and now> KN Rao opened new doors for both astrology and astrologers from all regions.

> It reached out to people and became more open for fresh ideas and research.> They have proved the immense utility of finer divisions beyond doubt through> various predictions as well as postmortems.

> > If you try to see with a slightly open mind, you would find that there is> hardly any difference in what you call as `reading amshas in a natal chart'> or what we call as a divisional chart which some authors also call an amsha

> indicator chart. Different divisions are add-on tools to judge the finer> details about planets, I am sure you would agree.> > In our modern approach, we lay the spread as two separate charts instead of

> making our khichri on one chart. When we need to check various amshas, such> as navamsha, saptamsha, dahamsha, etc., they all cannot be marked on one> rashi chart. It would be too much confusion, specially for new learners.

> Separate charts make even the beginners understand well, though experienced> astrolgers may not need to cast such separate charts.> > *Divisional charts are supplementary to the Rashi chart and complementary to

> each other. *Without a Rashi chart to show the main road to be taken,> divisional chart cannot be used to locate the address.> > Divisional charts indicate the amsha sign positions taken by the nine

> planets which is visible clearly and distinctly when a separate chart is> cast. This chart may now be used more imaginatively with various factors of> rashi chart. One can see the positions from natal lagna and fine tune the

> results.> > But the natal lagna also has got certain amsha. How are planets placed from> that amsha and how they support or weaken the lagna amsha also becomes an> important examination. Planets when placed from lagna amsha constitute the

> divisional chart. But is really no different from divisions being seen in> natal chart of being placed in a separate blank kundli> > One can then play with this chart and see from dashanath, how various amshas

> are placed from dashanath's amsha. See from moon, Sun, karaka etc. Transits> on navamsha is another way to look for timing of events. Aspects in navamsha> charts is yet another exploration which has been done by many astrolgers

> like Kalyan Varma, Dhundi Raja etc.> > Nadi Literature and Sri CS Patel have advocated extensive use of Navamsha> which is easier to examine when a separate Navamsha chakra or chart is cast.>

> *If you must draw a line up to what extent you would use these wonderful> tools, it is upto you. There are many ways to skin a cat, as they say, but> the best is to let the cat grow beyond the skin!!*

> > All areas are open to research for a mind which can observe and question. We> do start our knowledgebase from somewhere, but we need not jog at the same> place. We must be able to add on to the existing knowledge, only then we can

> justify our presence. A knowledge which cannot grow and bear fruits is dead.> > I am always ready to experiment and learn, even make my own ABSURD rules> :-).> I have shared my views. Please feel free to agree or disagree.

> > Regards> Neelam>

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam Ji, Srinadh ji and All,

 

There is a scope for modification of the statement made - " Divisional

charts indicate the amsha sign positions taken by the nine planets which

is visible clearly and distinctly when a separate chart is cast " .

 

Take a lagna chart of choice, look at the amsha occupied by a planet,

now goto several D charts, you w'd find that same amsha creates

variations in various D charts, Like Sun at a certain amsha can be

exalted in a D chart but can also be in debilitation in another D

chart, D charts are virtual charts.

 

We are distracting a little.

 

Basically, D chart's first and formost application is to assess the

strength of a planet to better understand concerned area of life.

 

We should remember in the classics, reference to amshas like Parijaat,

Vaisheshika etc available, which is in fact, combined assessment of a

planet's strength in several D charts, and in classics predictive

application of such amshas are also given.

 

I understand, impact of angular distances, is studied in various ways to

learn various aspects of life through various D charts. Suppose, I wish

to study how Sun w'd contribute to my Knowledge when it's in 8th house

of Lagna chart, Sun is no way related to my study, I w'd look at Sun in

D9 and D20 etc, May be Sun is not related to my study in Lagna chart, It

might have an impact in life, Like, if 5'th and 5'th lord are good, I

may have good study, good knowedge, but, I may not be a topper of my

class, this might be understood with use of D charts, as a matter of

fact, all the planet's have some or other contribution to study.

 

D charts are virtuality for revealing reality but at the same time, w'd

emphasize, seperate existance of D charts is no reality.

 

regards,

Utkal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If any one of us or togather everybody can come up with reasoning of

objective of drawing a D chart that may enlighten us further, what I

asked is - Why a particular divisional chart (D7) should indicate

prospects of progeny,likewise, D20 should indicate knowlede quotiant.

 

regards,

Utkal

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, neelam gupta

<neelamgupta07 wrote:

>

> Dear Sreenadh ji and All,

>

> Sharing some views with a take it or leave it tag.:-)

>

> I respect Sreenadh ji's fundamentalist approach, as his chosen

path. He is

> an excellent scholar and if he follows a certain line of thought, it

is fine

> and I do not have any problem. This is just to say that anything new

and

> different may not be ABSURD, especially when it is backed by solid

research.

>

> Every branch of knowledge has an origin somewhere. What you now call

ancient

> astrology today must have come from somewhere for which we've lost

track.

> Fragments of ancient Rishi Horas, available with us are cryptic and

terse.

> Complete understanding may not be there of many of the principles,

> applications etc. For such knowledge to be useful, to be applicable,

it must

> be well and rightly understood, it should grow and evolve.

>

> So astrology did not stop there. Just like other branches of

knowledge,

> astrology was continuously fed with new ideas, new knowledge and

research.

> We see a slightly modified astrology when astrologers like Parashara

came

> in. There we find a crisper and clearer use of `divisions'.

And we see a

> `divisional' chart being erected. Still a lot of it was under

wraps and not

> fully understood.

>

> Knowledge is universal since human beings are same everywhere. What is

> applicable to a Keralite is to a Tamilian is to an Andhraite or a

Kashmiri.

> We do not have much knowledge about where the Rishis lived, but later

day

> astrologers were nicely spread all over India. The era of BV Raman and

now

> KN Rao opened new doors for both astrology and astrologers from all

regions.

> It reached out to people and became more open for fresh ideas and

research.

> They have proved the immense utility of finer divisions beyond doubt

through

> various predictions as well as postmortems.

>

> If you try to see with a slightly open mind, you would find that there

is

> hardly any difference in what you call as `reading amshas in a

natal chart'

> or what we call as a divisional chart which some authors also call an

amsha

> indicator chart. Different divisions are add-on tools to judge the

finer

> details about planets, I am sure you would agree.

>

> In our modern approach, we lay the spread as two separate charts

instead of

> making our khichri on one chart. When we need to check various amshas,

such

> as navamsha, saptamsha, dahamsha, etc., they all cannot be marked on

one

> rashi chart. It would be too much confusion, specially for new

learners.

> Separate charts make even the beginners understand well, though

experienced

> astrolgers may not need to cast such separate charts.

>

> *Divisional charts are supplementary to the Rashi chart and

complementary to

> each other. *Without a Rashi chart to show the main road to be taken,

> divisional chart cannot be used to locate the address.

>

> Divisional charts indicate the amsha sign positions taken by the nine

> planets which is visible clearly and distinctly when a separate chart

is

> cast. This chart may now be used more imaginatively with various

factors of

> rashi chart. One can see the positions from natal lagna and fine tune

the

> results.

>

> But the natal lagna also has got certain amsha. How are planets placed

from

> that amsha and how they support or weaken the lagna amsha also becomes

an

> important examination. Planets when placed from lagna amsha constitute

the

> divisional chart. But is really no different from divisions being seen

in

> natal chart of being placed in a separate blank kundli

>

> One can then play with this chart and see from dashanath, how various

amshas

> are placed from dashanath's amsha. See from moon, Sun, karaka etc.

Transits

> on navamsha is another way to look for timing of events. Aspects in

navamsha

> charts is yet another exploration which has been done by many

astrolgers

> like Kalyan Varma, Dhundi Raja etc.

>

> Nadi Literature and Sri CS Patel have advocated extensive use of

Navamsha

> which is easier to examine when a separate Navamsha chakra or chart is

cast.

>

> *If you must draw a line up to what extent you would use these

wonderful

> tools, it is upto you. There are many ways to skin a cat, as they say,

but

> the best is to let the cat grow beyond the skin!!*

>

> All areas are open to research for a mind which can observe and

question. We

> do start our knowledgebase from somewhere, but we need not jog at the

same

> place. We must be able to add on to the existing knowledge, only then

we can

> justify our presence. A knowledge which cannot grow and bear fruits is

dead.

>

> I am always ready to experiment and learn, even make my own ABSURD

rules

> :-).

> I have shared my views. Please feel free to agree or disagree.

>

> Regards

> Neelam

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelum,

//I am sorry you have to suffer my long mail// NOT AT ALL.so long you enrich us with your precious knowledge we are ready to savour every bit of it. I Congratulate you for your detailed discussion,i hope you might be able to explain sreesandhji what we meant when we talk about divisional chart.i am novice to the forum so he might not found me very convincing but you are too old for the forum to be ignored.instead of obstinate one should be receptive to the new ideas,even when not very convinced.especially when we are here more a follower than a preacher. Divisional charts are not our creation afterall.

Regards.

Vandana Mishra

--- On Sat, 10/10/09, neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote:

neelam gupta <neelamgupta07Re: Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions) Date: Saturday, October 10, 2009, 1:59 PM

Dear All,I am sorry you all had to suffer my long mail just because Sreenadh ji scoffed at the word CHARTS suffixed to Divisions.:- )I actually feel there is no big difference, except in the way we are able to access the information and draw our own conclusions. Roots and trunk are most important, but without branches, leaves and flowers the tree cannot leave any fruit for posterity.RegardsNeelam

[Guest guest]

Neelam ji, I too wonder, this is not right :

 

Srinadh ji's statement - " But as you could see both the approaches are useful -

first one, usually providing short term benefits to ourselves (through

successful prediction and satisfaction) and the second, usually providing long

term benefits to others and posterity "

 

There is no meaning of above statement.

 

regards,

Utkal.

 

 

, neelam gupta

<neelamgupta07 wrote:

>

> Dear Sreenadh ji,

>

> Thanks for the beautiful story and your views. I greatly respect your

> approach.

>

> //But as you could see both the approaches are useful - first one, usually

> providing short term benefits to ourselves (through successful prediction

> and satisfaction) and the second, usually providing long term benefits to

> others and posterity. //

> I am wondering why do you think reading D-charts is a shortcut and gives

> short term benefits? And why is it not pure knowledge?

> It has grown on the ancient knowledge only, an extended research on

> divisions as given in ancient texts. Knowledge must be augmented with

> observation and research. And if you do that, does it not remain pure. If

> so, there will be no line to demarcate where impurity will start.

>

> //The Kichadi approach (that is usually followed by good and successful

> astrologers in the group such as Sunil Nair ji, Madhu ji, and now pointed to

> by Neelam ji)//

> Sorry, by khichri I didn't mean mixing of different approaches. What I meant

> was putting all amshas on natal chart itself. What I mean was why not erect

> separate charts for separate divisions.

>

> Let us take an example. How will you read the Lagna which falls in Third

> Navamsha of Aries and Mars is in Cancer in 4th Navamsha? How will you mark

> it on the natal chart? How will you refer to the lagna navamsha?

> I still feel that there may be no difference in how you read the divisions

> and how we read them through divisional charts. Just a difference in

> operating systems if I may say!:-)

> I am trying to find a line of compatibilty for the two systems.

>

> Regards

> Neelam

>

>

>

> 2009/10/10 sreesog <sreesog

>

> >

> >

> > Dear Neelam ji,

> > That was refreshing and informative - even though I don't agree to many

> > of the views expressed. But I appreciate your individuality, sincerity and

> > will to select own path and express it with confidence. - that too in a

> > beautiful way. [image: ]

> > These approaches (i.e. accepting D-Charts and not accepting D-charts)

> > conflict but if proved useful in prediction (and not 'explanation') then

> > certainly it is ok. But I will never be taking that path (i.e. use of

> > D-charts) - because my approach differ and too orthodox and traditional. As

> > you know that rigidity (strict border lines) are intentional because

> > purification of the current knowledge base - by rejecting the non-coherent

> > knowledge and integration of only the coherent knowledge (i.e. knowledge

> > that is in tune with the fundamentals) - is the purpose; and the base tone

> > of my approach.

> > The Kichadi approach (that is usually followed by good and successful

> > astrologers in the group such as Sunil Nair ji, Madhu ji, and now pointed to

> > by Neelam ji) is well and good and much useful for predictive purpose -

> > because at times it provides you to reach the solutions/answers without

> > completing the total logical circle - but may not be much useful from a

> > structural perspective; were editing/organizing/compiling/purifying of the

> > available knowledge plays the major role. The difference is that -

> > * I don't want to become a successful astrologer by taking any shortcut.

> >

> > * But instead want to compile and present the ancient knowledge in a

> > systematic way so that the whole effort would be much beneficial to the

> > posterity.

> > Possibly it is this basic approach difference that makes Neelam ji

> > support D-charts and me reject D-charts.

> > But as you could see both the approaches are useful - first one, usually

> > providing short term benefits to ourselves (through successful prediction

> > and satisfaction) and the second, usually providing long term benefits to

> > others and posterity.

> > It is the our individual approach to a subject that decides, decreases or

> > increases the ultimate value of our contribution.

> > Let us have a story -

> > It was a very hot season in the desert city he felt he will die if not

> > nourished with water, he approached a computational individual sitting in

> > near by house. Water was not much available there as well. The waste water

> > from the near by newly constructed drainage was flowing near by. The wise

> > man of the house, knew a technique to quench such thirst and to purity

> > drainage water. He went to drainage took a glass of water, (using his hard

> > earned technique of putting in some chlorine) somewhat disinfected the

> > drainage water and gave to the thirsty one. The technique worked, and the

> > thirsty one saved. He was thankful, expressed his gratitude and went away.

> > Ofcourse the effort and help worthy and technique mastered appreciable.

> > But there was another man working hard nearby to clean the cluttered and

> > unused roadside well. Another thirsty individual went near him, but he

> > didn't even payed attention to that individual and continued his own work.

> > Months and years passed again the hot season came, and by now road side well

> > was becoming much useful and quenching the thirst of many.

> > The hosehold wiseman passed on his 'chlorine technique' to his children

> > and someone was doing research on that too afterwords- but due to the

> > presence of well full of pure water, people were not paying much attention

> > to it.

> > The point is - I don't reject or blame any successful technique beyond

> > limit, but I will prefer the orthodox work of purifying the well rather than

> > to follow a temporary solution, that too based on the newborn drainage and

> > self learned techniques - that will be never liked or appreciated by the

> > thirty ones in a hurry initially.

> > Note: Please take the story in a lighter vain, I was just trying to drive

> > a point home. [image: ]

> > Love and regards,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , neelam gupta

> > <neelamgupta07@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Sreenadh ji and All,

> > >

> > > Sharing some views with a take it or leave it tag.:-)

> > >

> > > I respect Sreenadh ji's fundamentalist approach, as his chosen path. He

> > is

> > > an excellent scholar and if he follows a certain line of thought, it is

> > fine

> > > and I do not have any problem. This is just to say that anything new and

> > > different may not be ABSURD, especially when it is backed by solid

> > research.

> > >

> > > Every branch of knowledge has an origin somewhere. What you now call

> > ancient

> > > astrology today must have come from somewhere for which we've lost track.

> > > Fragments of ancient Rishi Horas, available with us are cryptic and

> > terse.

> > > Complete understanding may not be there of many of the principles,

> > > applications etc. For such knowledge to be useful, to be applicable, it

> > must

> > > be well and rightly understood, it should grow and evolve.

> > >

> > > So astrology did not stop there. Just like other branches of knowledge,

> > > astrology was continuously fed with new ideas, new knowledge and

> > research.

> > > We see a slightly modified astrology when astrologers like Parashara came

> > > in. There we find a crisper and clearer use of `divisions'. And we see a

> > > `divisional' chart being erected. Still a lot of it was under wraps and

> > not

> > > fully understood.

> > >

> > > Knowledge is universal since human beings are same everywhere. What is

> > > applicable to a Keralite is to a Tamilian is to an Andhraite or a

> > Kashmiri.

> > > We do not have much knowledge about where the Rishis lived, but later day

> > > astrologers were nicely spread all over India. The era of BV Raman and

> > now

> > > KN Rao opened new doors for both astrology and astrologers from all

> > regions.

> > > It reached out to people and became more open for fresh ideas and

> > research.

> > > They have proved the immense utility of finer divisions beyond doubt

> > through

> > > various predictions as well as postmortems.

> > >

> > > If you try to see with a slightly open mind, you would find that there is

> > > hardly any difference in what you call as `reading amshas in a natal

> > chart'

> > > or what we call as a divisional chart which some authors also call an

> > amsha

> > > indicator chart. Different divisions are add-on tools to judge the finer

> > > details about planets, I am sure you would agree.

> > >

> > > In our modern approach, we lay the spread as two separate charts instead

> > of

> > > making our khichri on one chart. When we need to check various amshas,

> > such

> > > as navamsha, saptamsha, dahamsha, etc., they all cannot be marked on one

> > > rashi chart. It would be too much confusion, specially for new learners.

> > > Separate charts make even the beginners understand well, though

> > experienced

> > > astrolgers may not need to cast such separate charts.

> > >

> > > *Divisional charts are supplementary to the Rashi chart and complementary

> > to

> > > each other. *Without a Rashi chart to show the main road to be taken,

> > > divisional chart cannot be used to locate the address.

> > >

> > > Divisional charts indicate the amsha sign positions taken by the nine

> > > planets which is visible clearly and distinctly when a separate chart is

> > > cast. This chart may now be used more imaginatively with various factors

> > of

> > > rashi chart. One can see the positions from natal lagna and fine tune the

> > > results.

> > >

> > > But the natal lagna also has got certain amsha. How are planets placed

> > from

> > > that amsha and how they support or weaken the lagna amsha also becomes an

> > > important examination. Planets when placed from lagna amsha constitute

> > the

> > > divisional chart. But is really no different from divisions being seen in

> > > natal chart of being placed in a separate blank kundli

> > >

> > > One can then play with this chart and see from dashanath, how various

> > amshas

> > > are placed from dashanath's amsha. See from moon, Sun, karaka etc.

> > Transits

> > > on navamsha is another way to look for timing of events. Aspects in

> > navamsha

> > > charts is yet another exploration which has been done by many astrolgers

> > > like Kalyan Varma, Dhundi Raja etc.

> > >

> > > Nadi Literature and Sri CS Patel have advocated extensive use of Navamsha

> > > which is easier to examine when a separate Navamsha chakra or chart is

> > cast.

> > >

> > > *If you must draw a line up to what extent you would use these wonderful

> > > tools, it is upto you. There are many ways to skin a cat, as they say,

> > but

> > > the best is to let the cat grow beyond the skin!!*

> > >

> > > All areas are open to research for a mind which can observe and question.

> > We

> > > do start our knowledgebase from somewhere, but we need not jog at the

> > same

> > > place. We must be able to add on to the existing knowledge, only then we

> > can

> > > justify our presence. A knowledge which cannot grow and bear fruits is

> > dead.

> > >

> > > I am always ready to experiment and learn, even make my own ABSURD rules

> > > :-).

> > > I have shared my views. Please feel free to agree or disagree.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > > Neelam

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam ji, //Let us take an example. How will you read the Lagna which falls in

Third Navamsha of Aries and Mars is in Cancer in 4th Navamsha? How will

you mark it on the natal chart? How will you refer to the lagna

navamsha?// In this example since the Natal chart Lagna is lacking it doesn't make sense at all, because the Navamsa should be counted from Natal Lagna. Let us assume that Lagna is Aries 3rd Navamsa (thus Lagna Navamsaka falls in Gemini - i.e. in 3rd house); The lord of Aries Mars is placed in Cancer 4th Navamsa (thus Mars Navamsaka falls in Libra - i.e. in 7th house). Thus we have - * Aries Lagna with lagnamsaka in Gemini AND * Lagna lord Mars in Cancer with Mars Navamsaka in Libra. This is the combination for which I am supposed to give the possible results. But before that there are two questions - 1) How will

you mark it on the natal chart? What is the problem here?! Just use the mixed chart view (even in JHora it is pesent) with Natal chart inside and Navamsaka marked outside. This itself is the style we use to read/understand Natal chart along with navamsaka marked. 2) How will you refer to the lagna

navamsha? Again, what is the problem here? It is Aries lagna Gemini Navamsaka and Mars in Cancer lagna with Libra navamsaka. Here Lagna is placed in Aries 3rd Navamsa and Mars is is placed in Cancer in Cancer 4th navamsa. No confusion at all! Now let us go to the results - * Start with general results for Aries Lagna and Mars in Cancer - such as round honey colered eyes, interest in eating hot cooked vegetables, easily becoming angry and easily becoming happy, likes to travel, like sex, taking elder like responsibility at home, systematic, probability of having a heart attack (due to the presence of Mars in 4th) etc etc. Elaborate as much you can based on standard texts and techniques. Now coming to results considering Navamsas -1) Lagna Navamsa (3rd Navamsa of Aries) * Native took birth in the 3rd Navamsa of Aries. As per Saravali - Vyaplupta kesa gauro vyastabhujascharu nayana nasascha Vakpanditastriteeye jatastu krisorujanu jankhascha Meaning, white hair here and their, long arms, beautiful eyes and nose, knowledgeable, thin legs compared to the proportion of the body. 2) Lagana Navamsaka (Gemini Navamsaka) As per Brihat Jataka - "Lagna Navamsaka tulya tanu syat" (body would be indicated by Lagna navamsaka). Here since the lagna navamsaka falls in Gemini the general characteristics of Gemini sign will get mixed with the original nature of Aries Lagna. Fun filled eyes (while viewing), lowered shoulders, moderate physique (not too high, not too fat) etc example. Improve on this anyway you want based on your capability to add the nature of Gemini sign with the original nature of Aries sign - your articulation capability could be better than me in this case. Lagna navamsaka falls in 3rd house means that 3rd house related things/matters such as co-borns, writing, publishing, helping others, small journeys etc could play a major role in his life - a possibility. Since the Lagna Navamsaka falls in Mercury's sign the quotes such as - Soumyasya bhage navame sasankaH karoti soumyam satatam sukhadhyam Nityam suhrid devaguruprasaktam mahadhanam panditamapremeyam Meaning, He would be compationate, will live a happy life, will respect friends-relatives-deities-teachers, will be wealthy and knowledgeable etc - become applicable. Or in short, the point that native is Aries 3rd navamsa born itself indicate that the chart is good and that the native is most possibly going to lead a good life. Mars as Lagna Lord:============= Mars the lagna lord is placed in 4th navamsa of Cancer. Cancer is the 4th sign indicating heart, education, mind, maternal family and relatives and much more. Plenty of results such as possibility of heart attach, goddess worship in maternal family, extra importance to mother in family, gradual destruction of maternal family, untimely deaths and disseases happening among maternal family relatives etc are all predictable based on Mars in 4th in debilitation itself. It is well evident that Mars Dasa won't be much beneficial to this native if it comes. As you know - during Mars dasa and antara bad results as told by Phaladeepika such as - "Neecha grahe adhapatanam swavrittair Dainyam duracharam Rinaptipamahu Neechasrayam keekata desavasam Bhrityadhvam adhvanyanarthakaryam" etc will become applicable. But Mars dasa does not come there is not much to worry. The nature ascribed to 4th Navamsa of Cancer as per Saravali is - syamaschavir natabhru vilasa peenonnataH sunasakshaH KsheenaH purusho data sujatikaryaschaturthe syat Meaning, an individual with not much fair skin, one who likes enjoyment, heavy body, good face with good eyes and nose, weak, helping others, puts efforts for the upliftment of own caste etc. Since Mars is the significator of brother you can ascribe these natures to native's brother (if he have one as indicated by other combinations). Further some amount of these characteristics can be ascribed to mother as well. Further the terminology " KsheenaH purusho" (Weak individual) for Mars in Cancer 3rd navama again indicate that if Mars dasa comes the period won't be positive for the native healthwise and will make him weak (during that period). Further since it a malefic Mars in 4th Prasnamarga 14th chapter 54th sloka such as - "Matur matula bhagineya suhridam go vesma sayyasana .........." etc mentioning - problems to mother, maternal uncles, relatives, loss of property, heart disease, vehicle accident etc all becomes important in this chart. But ofcourse those results will materialize only in Dasas and Antaras proper to them such as either in Mars dasa, or in Moon dasa or so. Since the Navamsaka of Mars - a malefic - falls in 7th house indicating hip area we will have to say that the hip area of the native is not much beautiful as compared to his upper body. Further there could be some marks as well in that area as indicated by Mars Navamsaka. Aries native is usually much interested in sex, but a Mars navamsa in 7th in Venus's house gives almost an opposite effect. For example if Mars navamsaka is in a sing owned by Venus, then the results told are - Sukrasya bhage navame to bhaumaH karoti martyam ratilubdhasoukhyam Suhrid guru preetikaram suvakyam Sudharma raktam bahu britya yuktam Meaning, if Mars navamsaka is in Venus's sign, then the native will have less happiness only from sex (especially with wife). He would be good natured having good relationship with his friends, relatives, teachers, deities etc. He will have many servents as well (i.e. many will work under him). This result can be ascribed not only to the native, but also to his brother (since Mars is the indicator of co-borns) , to his wife, and to his mother to an extent. 7th house is 4th from 4th house (i.e. near house property of maternal family), and Libra is a human sign. As per Brihat Jataka "Nrilagnagam preshya kuja smasane" (if Mars is in Human sign burial place results) . Thus it is evident that many of maternal relatives are cremated in property near maternal family and also that some symbols indicting the same is still present there (i.e. in property near maternal house). Venus indicate vehicles, 4th maternal relatives, Mars in human sign a cremation gourd - all pointing to the untimely death of some maternal relative in a vehicle accident and also that proper after death rituals not yet conducted properly - an unsatisfied soul, whose memory is still present among the native's maternal relatives. And so and so it goes . You can derive many many such derivations based on this much understanding about the horoscope itself. You can look at the Mars in Cancer as 8th lord, and think what results to be predicted if 8th lord is in cancer 4th navamsa, or that what to be predicted if 8th lord's navamsaka is in 7th hosue and so on. I just want to give a glimpse of the system only - and so I stop. Hope this helps.Love and regards,Sreenadh , neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> > Thanks for the beautiful story and your views. I greatly respect your> approach.> > //But as you could see both the approaches are useful - first one, usually> providing short term benefits to ourselves (through successful prediction> and satisfaction) and the second, usually providing long term benefits to> others and posterity. //> I am wondering why do you think reading D-charts is a shortcut and gives> short term benefits? And why is it not pure knowledge?> It has grown on the ancient knowledge only, an extended research on> divisions as given in ancient texts. Knowledge must be augmented with> observation and research. And if you do that, does it not remain pure. If> so, there will be no line to demarcate where impurity will start.> > //The Kichadi approach (that is usually followed by good and successful> astrologers in the group such as Sunil Nair ji, Madhu ji, and now pointed to> by Neelam ji)//> Sorry, by khichri I didn't mean mixing of different approaches. What I meant> was putting all amshas on natal chart itself. What I mean was why not erect> separate charts for separate divisions.> > Let us take an example. How will you read the Lagna which falls in Third> Navamsha of Aries and Mars is in Cancer in 4th Navamsha? How will you mark> it on the natal chart? How will you refer to the lagna navamsha?> I still feel that there may be no difference in how you read the divisions> and how we read them through divisional charts. Just a difference in> operating systems if I may say!:-)> I am trying to find a line of compatibilty for the two systems.> > Regards> Neelam

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh ji,

You sure are a vast reservoir and we must keep coming back to you for more! 

 

Thanks for the beautiful glimpse of the system. Please allow me to

tell you through this glimpse that WE do not become alien just by using a

separate chart for the concerned amshas. It is just about the same with all its

‘purity’.

 I am sorry I didn’t say which lagna, but as you know that was immaterial

and you fixed something. Thanks.

 Let us see where we diverge from the ancient Horas. This is just to

clear our understanding of two approaches as you say.

 

//Thus we have -

  * Aries Lagna with lagnamsaka in Gemini AND

  * Lagna lord Mars in Cancer with Mars Navamsaka in Libra.

 This is the combination for which I am supposed to give the possible

results.

  But before that there are two questions -

 1) How will you mark it on the natal chart?

  What is the problem here?! Just use the mixed chart view (even in JHora

it is pesent) with Natal chart inside and

Navamsaka marked outside. This itself is the style we use to read/understand Natal chart along with

navamsaka marked.

  2)   How will you refer to the lagna navamsha?

  Again, what is the problem here? It is Aries lagna Gemini Navamsaka and

Mars in Cancer lagna with Libra navamsaka. Here  Lagna is placed in Aries

3rd Navamsa and Mars is placed in Cancer in Cancer 4th navamsa. No confusion at

all! //

What is the difference in the two approaches? Except, you are using

mixed chart of JHora and we are using separate charts of Jhora with same

placements. Only difference is that in the separate 'amsha bodhak' chart we have placed lagnamsha, instead of lagna. Though later both charts are maneouvered variously to check from different points. Reading is the same.

 

// 

Now let us go to the results -

  * Start with general results for Aries Lagna and Mars in Cancer - such

as round honey colered eyes, interest in eating hot cooked vegetables, easily

becoming angry and easily becoming happy, likes to travel, like sex,

taking elder like responsibility at home, systematic, probability of having a

heart attack (due to the presence of Mars in 4th)  etc etc. 

Elaborate as much you can based on standard texts and techniques.//

No difference

 

//  Now coming to results considering Navamsas -

1) Lagna Navamsa (3rd Navamsa of Aries)

 * Native took birth in the 3rd Navamsa of Aries. As per Saravali -

  Vyaplupta kesa gauro vyastabhujascharu nayana nasascha

  Vakpanditastriteeye jatastu krisorujanu jankhascha

Meaning, white hair here and their, long arms, beautiful eyes and nose,

knowledgeable, thin legs compared to the proportion of the body.//

No difference. That is how we must proceed too. If some is not doing so, it is astrologer's problem.

 

//2) Lagana Navamsaka (Gemini Navamsaka)

 As per Brihat Jataka - " Lagna Navamsaka tulya tanu syat " (body

would be indicated by Lagna navamsaka). Here since the lagna navamsaka falls in

Gemini the general characteristics of Gemini sign will get mixed with the

original nature of Aries Lagna.  Fun filled eyes (while viewing), lowered

shoulders, moderate physique (not too high, not too fat) etc

example.  Improve on this anyway you want based on your capability to add

the nature of Gemini sign with the original nature of Aries sign - your

articulation capability could be better than me in this case.

Lagna navamsaka falls in 3rd house means that 3rd house related

things/matters  such as co-borns, writing, publishing, helping others,

small journeys  etc could play a major role in his life - a possibility.

Since the Lagna Navamsaka falls in Mercury's sign the quotes such as -

 Soumyasya bhage navame sasankaH karoti soumyam satatam sukhadhyam

 Nityam suhrid devaguruprasaktam mahadhanam panditamapremeyam

 Meaning, He would be compationate, will live a happy life, will respect

friends-relatives-deities-teachers, will be wealthy and knowledgeable etc

- become applicable.

  Or in short, the point that native is Aries 3rd navamsa born itself

indicate that the chart is good and that the native is most possibly going to

lead a good life. //

Absolutely. No difference of opinion here too. In a divisional chart, we also see which

house of rashi and which sign rises and gets to play a larger

role in the canvas of life. In fact, putting lagnamsha as lagna of the divisional chart makes this a focus point.

 

//Mars as Lagna Lord:

=============

 Mars the lagna lord is placed in 4th navamsa of Cancer.

 Cancer is the 4th sign indicating heart, education, mind, maternal family

and relatives and much more. Plenty of results such as possibility of heart

attach, goddess worship in maternal family, extra importance to mother in

family, gradual destruction of maternal family, untimely deaths and disseases

happening among maternal family relatives etc are all predictable based on Mars

in 4th in debilitation itself. It is well evident that Mars Dasa won't be much

beneficial to this native if it comes.

   As you know - during Mars dasa and antara bad results

as told by Phaladeepika such as -

  " Neecha grahe adhapatanam swavrittair

  Dainyam duracharam Rinaptipamahu

  Neechasrayam keekata desavasam

  Bhrityadhvam adhvanyanarthakaryam " etc will become applicable.

  But Mars dasa does not come there is not much to worry.

  The nature ascribed to 4th Navamsa of Cancer as per Saravali is -

  syamaschavir natabhru vilasa peenonnataH sunasakshaH

  KsheenaH purusho data sujatikaryaschaturthe syat

  Meaning, an individual with not much fair skin, one who likes enjoyment,

heavy body, good face with good eyes and nose, weak, helping others, puts

efforts for the upliftment of own caste  etc.

  Since Mars is the significator of brother you can ascribe these natures

to native's brother (if he have one as indicated by other combinations).

Further some amount of these characteristics can be  ascribed to mother as

well.

  Further the terminology "   KsheenaH purusho " (Weak

individual) for Mars in Cancer 3rd navama again indicate that if Mars dasa

comes the period won't be positive for the native healthwise and will make him

weak (during that period).

 

Further since it a malefic Mars in 4th  Prasnamarga 14th chapter 54th

sloka such as -

  " Matur matula bhagineya suhridam go vesma sayyasana

........... "    etc mentioning - problems to mother, maternal

uncles, relatives, loss of property, heart disease, vehicle accident etc all

becomes important in this chart.  But ofcourse those results will

materialize only in Dasas and Antaras proper to them such as either in Mars

dasa, or in Moon dasa or so. //

Sure and beautiful. How enriching! I wish I could ask you for every

combination. We too study like that, though competence of astrologer cannot be

vouched for. The system surely advocates so.

 

//Since the Navamsaka of Mars - a malefic - falls in 7th house

indicating hip area we will have to say that the hip area of the native is not

much beautiful as compared to his upper body. Further there could be some marks

as well in that area as indicated by Mars Navamsaka.

Aries native is usually much interested in sex, but a Mars navamsa

in 7th in Venus's house gives almost an opposite effect. For example if Mars

navamsaka is in a sing owned by Venus, then the results told are -

  Sukrasya bhage navame to bhaumaH karoti martyam ratilubdhasoukhyam

  Suhrid guru preetikaram suvakyam Sudharma raktam bahu britya yuktam

 Meaning, if Mars navamsaka is in Venus's sign, then the native will have

less happiness only from sex (especially with wife).  He would be good

natured having good relationship with his friends, relatives, teachers, deities

etc. He will have many servents as well (i.e. many will work under him). 

  This result can be ascribed not only to the native, but also to his

brother (since Mars is the indicator of co-borns) , to his wife, and to his

mother to an extent.

  7th house is 4th from 4th house (i.e. near house property of maternal

family), and Libra is a human sign. As per Brihat Jataka " Nrilagnagam

preshya kuja smasane " (if Mars is in Human sign burial place results) .

Thus it is evident that many of maternal relatives are cremated in property

near maternal family and also that some symbols indicting the same is still

present there (i.e. in property near maternal house).

   Venus indicate vehicles, 4th maternal relatives, Mars in human

sign a cremation gourd - all pointing to the untimely death of some maternal

relative in a vehicle accident and also that proper after death rituals not yet

conducted properly - an unsatisfied soul, whose memory is still present among

the native's maternal relatives.//

Your explanations are beautiful and in-depth, but what makes you

think that in Navamsha chart we are not supposed to see all that? We must, in

fact. That many do not go to such depths is the problem of the astrologer, not

the divisional chart.

 

//And so and so it goes . You can derive many many such derivations based on this

much understanding about the horoscope itself. You can look at the Mars in

Cancer as 8th lord, and think what results to be predicted if 8th lord is in

cancer 4th navamsa, or that what to be predicted if 8th lord's navamsaka is in

7th house and so on.//

Absolutely

 

Now you must tell us what is different in the two approaches except

the use of a single chart and two separate charts?

 

 

If there are some innovative applications under study and research, that

is a separate issue, which must be done to enhance and built upon our existing knowledgebase. RegardsNeelam

2009/10/11 sreesog <sreesog

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Neelam ji, //Let us take an example. How will you read the Lagna which falls in

Third Navamsha of Aries and Mars is in Cancer in 4th Navamsha? How will

you mark it on the natal chart? How will you refer to the lagna

navamsha?//   In this example since the Natal chart Lagna is lacking it doesn't make sense at all, because the Navamsa should be counted from Natal Lagna.    Let us assume that Lagna is Aries 3rd Navamsa (thus Lagna Navamsaka falls in Gemini - i.e. in 3rd house); The lord of Aries Mars is placed in Cancer 4th Navamsa (thus Mars Navamsaka falls in Libra - i.e. in 7th house).

  Thus we have -   * Aries Lagna with lagnamsaka in Gemini AND  * Lagna lord Mars in Cancer with Mars Navamsaka in Libra. This is the combination for which I am supposed to give the possible results.   But before that there are two  questions -

 1) How will

you mark it on the natal chart?  What is the problem here?! Just use the mixed chart view (even in JHora it is pesent) with Natal chart inside and Navamsaka marked outside. This itself is the style we use to read/understand Natal chart along with navamsaka marked.

  2)   How will you refer to the lagna

navamsha?  Again, what is the problem here? It is Aries lagna Gemini Navamsaka and Mars in Cancer lagna with Libra navamsaka. Here  Lagna is placed in Aries 3rd Navamsa and Mars is is placed in Cancer in Cancer 4th navamsa. No confusion at all!

  Now let us go to the results -   * Start with general results for Aries Lagna and Mars in Cancer - such as round honey colered eyes, interest in eating hot cooked vegetables, easily becoming angry and easily becoming happy, likes to travel,  like sex, taking elder like responsibility at home, systematic, probability of having a heart attack (due to the presence of Mars in 4th)  etc etc.  Elaborate as much you can based on standard texts and techniques.

  Now coming to results considering Navamsas -1) Lagna Navamsa (3rd Navamsa of Aries) * Native took birth in the 3rd Navamsa of Aries. As per Saravali -  Vyaplupta kesa gauro vyastabhujascharu nayana nasascha

  Vakpanditastriteeye jatastu krisorujanu jankhascha  Meaning, white hair here and their, long arms, beautiful eyes and nose, knowledgeable, thin legs compared to the proportion of the body.   2) Lagana Navamsaka (Gemini Navamsaka)

  As per Brihat Jataka - " Lagna Navamsaka tulya tanu syat " (body would be indicated by Lagna navamsaka). Here since the lagna navamsaka falls in Gemini the general characteristics of Gemini sign will get mixed with the original nature of Aries Lagna.  Fun filled eyes (while viewing), lowered shoulders,  moderate physique (not too high, not too fat) etc example.  Improve on this anyway you want based on your capability to add the nature of Gemini sign with the original nature of Aries sign - your articulation capability could be better than me in this case.

   Lagna navamsaka falls in 3rd house means that 3rd house related things/matters  such as co-borns, writing, publishing, helping others, small journeys  etc could play a major role in his life - a possibility.   Since the Lagna Navamsaka falls in Mercury's sign the quotes such as -

 Soumyasya bhage navame sasankaH karoti soumyam satatam sukhadhyam Nityam suhrid devaguruprasaktam mahadhanam panditamapremeyam  Meaning, He would be compationate, will live a happy life, will respect friends-relatives-deities-teachers, will be wealthy and knowledgeable etc - become applicable.

  Or in short, the point that native is Aries 3rd navamsa born itself indicate that the chart is good and that the native is most possibly going to lead a good life. Mars as Lagna Lord:============= Mars the lagna lord is placed in 4th navamsa of Cancer.

 Cancer is the 4th sign indicating heart, education, mind, maternal family and relatives and much more. Plenty of results such as possibility of heart attach, goddess worship in maternal family, extra importance to mother in family, gradual destruction of maternal family, untimely deaths and disseases happening among maternal family relatives etc are all predictable based on Mars in 4th in debilitation itself. It is well evident that Mars Dasa won't be much beneficial to this native if it comes.

   As you know - during Mars dasa and antara bad results as told by Phaladeepika such as -  " Neecha grahe adhapatanam swavrittair  Dainyam duracharam Rinaptipamahu  Neechasrayam keekata desavasam   Bhrityadhvam adhvanyanarthakaryam " etc will become applicable.

  But Mars dasa does not come there is not much to worry.   The nature ascribed to 4th Navamsa of Cancer as per Saravali is -  syamaschavir natabhru vilasa peenonnataH sunasakshaH  KsheenaH purusho data sujatikaryaschaturthe syat

  Meaning, an individual with not much fair skin, one who likes enjoyment, heavy body, good face with good eyes and nose, weak, helping others, puts efforts for the upliftment of own caste  etc.   Since Mars is the significator of brother you can ascribe these natures to native's brother (if he have one as indicated by other combinations). Further some amount of these characteristics can be  ascribed to mother as well.

  Further the terminology "   KsheenaH purusho " (Weak individual) for Mars in Cancer 3rd navama again indicate that if Mars dasa comes the period won't be positive for the native healthwise and will make him weak (during that period).

 Further since it a malefic Mars in 4th  Prasnamarga 14th chapter 54th sloka such as -  " Matur matula bhagineya suhridam go vesma sayyasana .......... "    etc mentioning - problems to mother, maternal uncles, relatives, loss of property, heart disease, vehicle accident etc all becomes important in this chart.  But ofcourse those results will materialize only in Dasas and Antaras proper to them such as either in Mars dasa, or in Moon dasa or so.

  Since the Navamsaka of Mars - a malefic - falls in 7th house indicating hip area we will have to say that the hip area of the native is not much beautiful as compared to his upper body. Further there could be some marks as well in that area  as indicated by Mars Navamsaka.

  Aries native is usually much interested in sex, but a Mars navamsa in 7th in Venus's house gives almost an opposite effect. For example if Mars navamsaka is in a sing owned by Venus, then the results told are -

  Sukrasya bhage navame to bhaumaH karoti martyam ratilubdhasoukhyam  Suhrid guru preetikaram suvakyam Sudharma raktam bahu britya yuktam Meaning, if Mars navamsaka is in Venus's sign, then the native will have less happiness only from sex (especially with wife).  He would be good natured having good relationship with his friends, relatives, teachers, deities etc. He will have many servents as well (i.e. many will work under him). 

  This result can be ascribed not only to the native, but also to his brother (since Mars is the indicator of co-borns) , to his wife, and to his mother to an extent.   7th house is 4th from 4th house (i.e. near house property of maternal family), and Libra is a human sign. As per Brihat Jataka " Nrilagnagam preshya kuja smasane " (if Mars is in Human sign burial place results) . Thus it is evident that many of maternal relatives are cremated in property near maternal family and also that some symbols indicting the same is still present there (i.e. in property near maternal house).

   Venus indicate vehicles, 4th maternal relatives, Mars in human sign a cremation gourd - all pointing to the untimely death of some maternal relative in a vehicle accident and also that proper after death rituals not yet conducted properly - an unsatisfied soul, whose memory is still present among the native's maternal relatives.

  And so and so it goes . You can derive many many such derivations based on this much understanding about the horoscope itself. You can look at the Mars in Cancer as 8th lord, and think what results to be predicted if 8th lord is in cancer 4th navamsa, or that what to be predicted if 8th lord's navamsaka is in 7th hosue and so on.

  I just want to give a glimpse of the system only - and so I stop. Hope this helps.Love and regards,Sreenadh , neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote:

>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> > Thanks for the beautiful story and your views. I greatly respect your> approach.> > //But as you could see both the approaches are useful - first one, usually

> providing short term benefits to ourselves (through successful prediction> and satisfaction) and the second, usually providing long term benefits to> others and posterity. //> I am wondering why do you think reading D-charts is a shortcut and gives

> short term benefits? And why is it not pure knowledge?> It has grown on the ancient knowledge only, an extended research on> divisions as given in ancient texts. Knowledge must be augmented with> observation and research. And if you do that, does it not remain pure. If

> so, there will be no line to demarcate where impurity will start.> > //The Kichadi approach (that is usually followed by good and successful> astrologers in the group such as Sunil Nair ji, Madhu ji, and now pointed to

> by Neelam ji)//> Sorry, by khichri I didn't mean mixing of different approaches. What I meant> was putting all amshas on natal chart itself. What I mean was why not erect> separate charts for separate divisions.

> > Let us take an example. How will you read the Lagna which falls in Third> Navamsha of Aries and Mars is in Cancer in 4th Navamsha? How will you mark> it on the natal chart? How will you refer to the lagna navamsha?

> I still feel that there may be no difference in how you read the divisions> and how we read them through divisional charts. Just a difference in> operating systems if I may say!:-)> I am trying to find a line of compatibilty for the two systems.

> > Regards> Neelam

[Guest guest]

Dear Vandana ji,Thanks for your good words. I am confident that while using the divisional charts we are not deviating from the principles prescribed in the classical texts.I also understand that in South the practice is to mark the amshas on the rashi chart itself. But in no way did I ever feel that there was any difference in interpretation.

Many astrologers do not go beyond the Navamsha for divisions. That is a separate matter. Since the advent of Parashari, use of various other divisions have come into practice. We must test and do researc on all available knowledge. Nadi systems are nothing but finer and finest divisions. Astrological research is the most difficult one. The object of experiments, a human being, itself is extremely complex and we work under severe limitations of various kinds. I would digress if I get into that. But we all, as sincere scholars, must try to raise our level of understanding day by day. We must be able to see the unity in diverse approaches.

Raaste juda juda hain, par manzil to ek hai!RegardsNeelam2009/10/11 Vandna Misra <vandana_mishra_91

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Neelum,

//I am sorry you have to suffer my long mail// NOT AT ALL.so long you enrich us with your precious knowledge we are ready to savour every bit of it. I Congratulate you for  your detailed discussion,i hope you might be able to explain sreesandhji what we meant when we talk about divisional chart.i am novice to the forum so he might not found me very convincing but you are too old for the forum to be ignored.instead of obstinate one should be receptive to the  new ideas,even when not very convinced.especially when we are here more a follower  than a preacher. Divisional charts are not our creation afterall.

Regards.

Vandana Mishra

--- On Sat, 10/10/09, neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote:

neelam gupta <neelamgupta07Re: Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

Date: Saturday, October 10, 2009, 1:59 PM

 

Dear All,I am sorry you all had to suffer my long mail just because Sreenadh ji scoffed at the word CHARTS suffixed to Divisions.:- )I actually feel there is no big difference, except in the way we are able to access the information and draw our own conclusions.

Roots and trunk are most important, but without branches, leaves and flowers the tree cannot leave any fruit for posterity.RegardsNeelam

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh ji,

 

I would love to see some examples if you can explain it with.

By Amsaka, what I understand is sign in which Amsa falls. Correct me if I am

wrong.

 

To me , amsaka shall not change for 4th lord in ASC (Rasi chart) window. Amsaka

of 4th house shall change.

 

Regarding some doubts raised by members, I agree with you that 4th is for formal

education, 5th for Intellect, 9th for higher eucation ....

 

regds

Dev

 

, " sreesog " <sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Dev ji,

> Thinks that we are trying to understand the 4th house nature of

> education and considering the forth lord. Let us assume that Lagna is

> 10th degree in some sign. The basic trend of the education would be

> clear from the Rasi chart itself. But all people born in that Rasi chart

> window (Lagna window of 2 hours) WILL NOT be of the same

> caliber/excellence in education. Why? Because the Amsas change.

> //> Let us say as per conditions of Rasi chart, one is supposed to be

> excellent in education, How Amsas shall decide whether it shall fructify

> or not ?//

> * You can look at the Amsaka position of 4th lord, as well as the

> Amsas of 10th degree of 4th house for clarification. The results that

> should be ascribed to various amsakas are given in traditional

> astro-classics. (so learning the possible results ascribed to Amsaka

> positions as per classics is always important to get a better

> understanding)

> For example, simply put, assume that -

> * For 1 chart most of the amsaka lords for 4th lord are in malefic

> planets - he will do poor in education.

> * For the other chart most of the amsaka lords of 4th lord are benefic

> planets - he will do good in education.

> But there would be some underlying similiarty between the general

> education trend (subject lines they choose, their interests and learning

> habits etc) for both the individuals since their 4th house and 4th lord

> are similar at Natal chart level.

> Hope this helps.

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " axeplex " <axeplex@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sreesandh ji,

> >

> > Further to my last post, I would like to learn how you decide

> education.

> > Let us say as per conditions of Rasi chart, one is supposed to be

> excellent in education, How Amsas shall decide whether it shall

> fructify or not ?

> > And do all the persons born in that RASi chart window shall be

> excellent in education.

> >

> > regds

> > Dev

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam Ji,

 

// I also understand that in South the practice is to mark the amshas on the rashi chart itself. But in no way did I ever feel that there was any difference in interpretation. //

 

Not so in Tamil Nadu. All the chennai astrologers my family has been to (and God knows they have been to several) always show the Rashi Chart juxtaposed with the Navamsha Chart. However, NONE of the astrologers I know in South India, take house ruler ship in the Navamsha chart. That is, they DONT consider the Navamsha chart as a separate stand alone chart with its own houses, rulerships etc, but, definitely erect a Navamsha chart, side by side, the Rashi Chart.

 

In essence their interpretation method is just like what Sreenadh Ji explained, only they use the visual aid of a separate chart (which is what you are implying I think).

 

Regards,

-Manoj

 

 

 

 

 

neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 Sent: Sun, October 11, 2009 4:02:42 AMRe: Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

Dear Vandana ji,Thanks for your good words. I am confident that while using the divisional charts we are not deviating from the principles prescribed in the classical texts.I also understand that in South the practice is to mark the amshas on the rashi chart itself. But in no way did I ever feel that there was any difference in interpretation. Many astrologers do not go beyond the Navamsha for divisions. That is a separate matter. Since the advent of Parashari, use of various other divisions have come into practice. We must test and do researc on all available knowledge. Nadi systems are nothing but finer and finest divisions. Astrological research is the most difficult one. The object of experiments, a human being, itself is extremely complex and we work under severe limitations of various kinds. I would digress if I get into that. But we all, as sincere scholars, must try to raise our level of understanding day by day. We must be

able to see the unity in diverse approaches.Raaste juda juda hain, par manzil to ek hai!RegardsNeelam

2009/10/11 Vandna Misra <vandana_mishra_ 91 >

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Neelum,

//I am sorry you have to suffer my long mail// NOT AT ALL.so long you enrich us with your precious knowledge we are ready to savour every bit of it. I Congratulate you for your detailed discussion,i hope you might be able to explain sreesandhji what we meant when we talk about divisional chart.i am novice to the forum so he might not found me very convincing but you are too old for the forum to be ignored.instead of obstinate one should be receptive to the new ideas,even when not very convinced.especiall y when we are here more a follower than a preacher. Divisional charts are not our creation afterall.

Regards.

Vandana Mishra

--- On Sat, 10/10/09, neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ gmail.com> wrote:

neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ gmail.com>Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

ancient_indian_ astrologySaturday, October 10, 2009, 1:59 PM

 

 

 

Dear All,I am sorry you all had to suffer my long mail just because Sreenadh ji scoffed at the word CHARTS suffixed to Divisions.:- )I actually feel there is no big difference, except in the way we are able to access the information and draw our own conclusions. Roots and trunk are most important, but without branches, leaves and flowers the tree cannot leave any fruit for posterity.RegardsNeelam

[Guest guest]

Dear Manoj ji,I am just trying to understand why Sreenadh ji feels and says that Divisional Charts are absurd and thy do not belong to pure ancient astrology.While we see these charts just as per pure ancient principles too, except that we use a separate chart may be for ease of handling.

Sreenadh ji has also used relative house positions and rulerships of amshas, but in the natal chart only. I guess he does not take various amshas from lagna amsha and their house-wise distribution. E.g. mars is in Libra navamsha which is 5H from lagna navamsha of Gemini. We use it as a significant factor saying in navamsha LL Mars is in 5H and will have something to do with 5H. There lies the major difference. But I guess it is an additional perspective and much research has proved its worth beyond doubt. If astrology is logical and planets behave logically, then one can see their working in many ways.

RegardsNeelam2009/10/11 Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Neelam Ji,

 

// I also understand that in South the practice is to mark the amshas on the rashi chart itself. But in no way did I ever feel that there was any difference in interpretation. //

 

Not so in Tamil Nadu. All the chennai astrologers my family has been to (and God knows they have been to several) always show the Rashi Chart juxtaposed with the Navamsha Chart. However, NONE of the astrologers I know in South India, take house ruler ship in the Navamsha chart. That is, they DONT consider the Navamsha chart as a separate stand alone chart with its own houses, rulerships etc, but, definitely erect a Navamsha chart, side by side, the Rashi Chart.

 

In essence their interpretation method is just like what Sreenadh Ji explained, only they use the visual aid of a separate chart (which is what you are implying I think).

 

Regards,

 -Manoj

 

 

 

 

 

neelam gupta <neelamgupta07

Sun, October 11, 2009 4:02:42 AMRe: Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

 

Dear Vandana ji,Thanks for your good words. I am confident that while using the divisional charts we are not deviating from the principles prescribed in the classical texts.I also understand that in South the practice is to mark the amshas on the rashi chart itself. But in no way did I ever feel that there was any difference in interpretation.

Many astrologers do not go beyond the Navamsha for divisions. That is a separate matter. Since the advent of Parashari, use of various other divisions have come into practice. We must test and do researc on all available knowledge. Nadi systems are nothing but finer and finest divisions. Astrological research is the most difficult one. The object of experiments, a human being, itself is extremely complex and we work under severe limitations of various kinds. I would digress if I get into that. But we all, as sincere scholars, must try to raise our level of understanding day by day. We must be

able to see the unity in diverse approaches.Raaste juda juda hain, par manzil to ek hai!RegardsNeelam

2009/10/11 Vandna Misra <vandana_mishra_ 91 >

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Neelum,

//I am sorry you have to suffer my long mail// NOT AT ALL.so long you enrich us with your precious knowledge we are ready to savour every bit of it. I Congratulate you for  your detailed discussion,i hope you might be able to explain sreesandhji what we meant when we talk about divisional chart.i am novice to the forum so he might not found me very convincing but you are too old for the forum to be ignored.instead of obstinate one should be receptive to the  new ideas,even when not very convinced.especiall y when we are here more a follower  than a preacher. Divisional charts are not our creation afterall.

 

Regards.

Vandana Mishra

--- On Sat, 10/10/09, neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ gmail.com> wrote:

neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ gmail.com>Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

ancient_indian_ astrologySaturday, October 10, 2009, 1:59 PM

 

 

 

 

Dear All,I am sorry you all had to suffer my long mail just because Sreenadh ji scoffed at the word CHARTS suffixed to Divisions.:- )I actually feel there is no big difference, except in the way we are able to access the information and draw our own conclusions.

Roots and trunk are most important, but without branches, leaves and flowers the tree cannot leave any fruit for posterity.RegardsNeelam

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam ji, You want to see the differences here? Here are some -//What

is the difference in the two approaches? Except, you are using

mixed chart of JHora and we are using separate charts of Jhora with

same

placements. Only difference is that in the separate 'amsha bodhak'

chart we have placed lagnamsha, instead of lagna. Though later both

charts are maneouvered variously to check from different points.

Reading is the same.// No - you got it all wrong. Please note the following points - 1) It is not JHora which started first but traditional astrology. As per traditional system we mark Navamsa outside the natal chart but ofcourse there is no system of drawing a chart outside. But ofcourse this immaterial, as JHora mixed chart style reflects the arrangement we use somewhat closely. So there is not much difference in this. 2) But when someone start drawing the Namava chart separately the whole thing changes! Because now "the starting point itself is different"! For the traditionalists the Natal Lagna itself was the starting point, but for the D-chartists the Lagna navamsaka becomes the starting point! If the starting point itself changes what to say about the result interpretation there off! All the slokas would be mis-interpreted there of to suit the erroneous starting point chosen! For the D-chartists ignorance the sages would be blamed! 3) Further - * Drishti is NOT considered in Namamsaka (But the D-chartists bring in this concept which was unknown to sages) * Transit is NEVER considered in Navamsaka (But the D-chartists bring in this concept as well, which was unknown to the sages) For traditionalists Drishti and Transit applies only to the natal chart, because there is only one chart that is Natal Rasi chart. Navamsaka is an amplification of the underlying reality itself and NOT a new vertual reality (virtual world) created - where you can apply all the rules of the real world such as Drishti and Trasit. If someone starts seeing Navamsaka as something which has something that has independent existance, where Dirishti and Transit can be considered there certainly he is NOT following traditional astrology, but instead is either creating or following a newborn absurd system. If somebody wants to do that - it is ok. But that is there path, and I won't see it as part of traditional ancient indian astrology. However they try to misinterpret the quotes, then it is also evident that there is not even a single support for their approach in ancient indian astrological classics. //In a divisional chart, we also see which

house of rashi and which sign rises and gets to play a larger

role in the canvas of life. In fact, putting lagnamsha as lagna of the divisional chart makes this a focus point.// Yes! This was the pitfall I was mentioning! Now by fixing the Lagnamsaka as the new starting point you have made the whole system upside down, and started committing all the mistakes I have mentioned above. In short destroying the traditional system, like a neo-convert! "Putting lagnamsha as lagna"!! Isn't that enough! This is the very reason I am against it - because it (D-charts) misleads even the knowledgeable! //Now you must tell us what is different in the two approaches except

the use of a single chart and two separate charts? // Can't you see the difference - from the explanations given above?! Even after this explanation you cannot see it, I wonder how can I make you understand this point! Love and regards,Sreenadh , neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote:Dear Sreenadh ji,

You sure are a vast reservoir and we must keep coming back to you for more!

 

Thanks for the beautiful glimpse of the system. Please allow me to

tell you through this glimpse that WE do not become alien just by using a

separate chart for the concerned amshas. It is just about the same with all its

`purity'.

I am sorry I didn't say which lagna, but as you know that was immaterial

and you fixed something. Thanks.

Let us see where we diverge from the ancient Horas. This is just to

clear our understanding of two approaches as you say.

 

//Thus we have -

* Aries Lagna with lagnamsaka in Gemini AND

* Lagna lord Mars in Cancer with Mars Navamsaka in Libra.

This is the combination for which I am supposed to give the possible

results.

But before that there are two questions -

1) How will you mark it on the natal chart?

What is the problem here?! Just use the mixed chart view (even in JHora

it is pesent) with Natal chart inside and

Navamsaka marked outside. This itself is the style we use to read/understand Natal chart along with

navamsaka marked.

2) How will you refer to the lagna navamsha?

Again, what is the problem here? It is Aries lagna Gemini Navamsaka and

Mars in Cancer lagna with Libra navamsaka. Here Lagna is placed in Aries

3rd Navamsa and Mars is placed in Cancer in Cancer 4th navamsa. No confusion at

all! //

What

is the difference in the two approaches? Except, you are using

mixed chart of JHora and we are using separate charts of Jhora with

same

placements. Only difference is that in the separate 'amsha bodhak'

chart we have placed lagnamsha, instead of lagna. Though later both

charts are maneouvered variously to check from different points.

Reading is the same.

 

//

Now let us go to the results -

* Start with general results for Aries Lagna and Mars in Cancer - such

as round honey colered eyes, interest in eating hot cooked vegetables, easily

becoming angry and easily becoming happy, likes to travel, like sex,

taking elder like responsibility at home, systematic, probability of having a

heart attack (due to the presence of Mars in 4th) etc etc.

Elaborate as much you can based on standard texts and techniques.//

No difference

 

// Now coming to results considering Navamsas -

1) Lagna Navamsa (3rd Navamsa of Aries)

* Native took birth in the 3rd Navamsa of Aries. As per Saravali -

Vyaplupta kesa gauro vyastabhujascharu nayana nasascha

Vakpanditastriteeye jatastu krisorujanu jankhascha

Meaning, white hair here and their, long arms, beautiful eyes and nose,

knowledgeable, thin legs compared to the proportion of the body.//

No difference. That is how we must proceed too. If some is not doing so, it is astrologer's problem.

//2) Lagana Navamsaka (Gemini Navamsaka)

As per Brihat Jataka - "Lagna Navamsaka tulya tanu syat" (body

would be indicated by Lagna navamsaka). Here since the lagna navamsaka falls in

Gemini the general characteristics of Gemini sign will get mixed with the

original nature of Aries Lagna. Fun filled eyes (while viewing), lowered

shoulders, moderate physique (not too high, not too fat) etc

example. Improve on this anyway you want based on your capability to add

the nature of Gemini sign with the original nature of Aries sign - your

articulation capability could be better than me in this case.

Lagna navamsaka falls in 3rd house means that 3rd house related

things/matters such as co-borns, writing, publishing, helping others,

small journeys etc could play a major role in his life - a possibility.

Since the Lagna Navamsaka falls in Mercury's sign the quotes such as -

Soumyasya bhage navame sasankaH karoti soumyam satatam sukhadhyam

Nityam suhrid devaguruprasaktam mahadhanam panditamapremeyam

Meaning, He would be compationate, will live a happy life, will respect

friends-relatives-deities-teachers, will be wealthy and knowledgeable etc

- become applicable.

Or in short, the point that native is Aries 3rd navamsa born itself

indicate that the chart is good and that the native is most possibly going to

lead a good life. //

Absolutely. No difference of opinion here too. In a divisional chart, we also see which

house of rashi and which sign rises and gets to play a larger

role in the canvas of life. In fact, putting lagnamsha as lagna of the divisional chart makes this a focus point.

 

//Mars as Lagna Lord:

=============

Mars the lagna lord is placed in 4th navamsa of Cancer.

Cancer is the 4th sign indicating heart, education, mind, maternal family

and relatives and much more. Plenty of results such as possibility of heart

attach, goddess worship in maternal family, extra importance to mother in

family, gradual destruction of maternal family, untimely deaths and disseases

happening among maternal family relatives etc are all predictable based on Mars

in 4th in debilitation itself. It is well evident that Mars Dasa won't be much

beneficial to this native if it comes.

As you know - during Mars dasa and antara bad results

as told by Phaladeepika such as -

"Neecha grahe adhapatanam swavrittair

Dainyam duracharam Rinaptipamahu

Neechasrayam keekata desavasam

Bhrityadhvam adhvanyanarthakaryam" etc will become applicable.

But Mars dasa does not come there is not much to worry.

The nature ascribed to 4th Navamsa of Cancer as per Saravali is -

syamaschavir natabhru vilasa peenonnataH sunasakshaH

KsheenaH purusho data sujatikaryaschaturthe syat

Meaning, an individual with not much fair skin, one who likes enjoyment,

heavy body, good face with good eyes and nose, weak, helping others, puts

efforts for the upliftment of own caste etc.

Since Mars is the significator of brother you can ascribe these natures

to native's brother (if he have one as indicated by other combinations).

Further some amount of these characteristics can be ascribed to mother as

well.

Further the terminology " KsheenaH purusho" (Weak

individual) for Mars in Cancer 3rd navama again indicate that if Mars dasa

comes the period won't be positive for the native healthwise and will make him

weak (during that period).

 

Further since it a malefic Mars in 4th Prasnamarga 14th chapter 54th

sloka such as -

"Matur matula bhagineya suhridam go vesma sayyasana

..........." etc mentioning - problems to mother, maternal

uncles, relatives, loss of property, heart disease, vehicle accident etc all

becomes important in this chart. But ofcourse those results will

materialize only in Dasas and Antaras proper to them such as either in Mars

dasa, or in Moon dasa or so. //

Sure and beautiful. How enriching! I wish I could ask you for every

combination. We too study like that, though competence of astrologer cannot be

vouched for. The system surely advocates so.

 

//Since the Navamsaka of Mars - a malefic - falls in 7th house

indicating hip area we will have to say that the hip area of the native is not

much beautiful as compared to his upper body. Further there could be some marks

as well in that area as indicated by Mars Navamsaka.

Aries native is usually much interested in sex, but a Mars navamsa

in 7th in Venus's house gives almost an opposite effect. For example if Mars

navamsaka is in a sing owned by Venus, then the results told are -

Sukrasya bhage navame to bhaumaH karoti martyam ratilubdhasoukhyam

Suhrid guru preetikaram suvakyam Sudharma raktam bahu britya yuktam

Meaning, if Mars navamsaka is in Venus's sign, then the native will have

less happiness only from sex (especially with wife). He would be good

natured having good relationship with his friends, relatives, teachers, deities

etc. He will have many servents as well (i.e. many will work under him).

This result can be ascribed not only to the native, but also to his

brother (since Mars is the indicator of co-borns) , to his wife, and to his

mother to an extent.

7th house is 4th from 4th house (i.e. near house property of maternal

family), and Libra is a human sign. As per Brihat Jataka "Nrilagnagam

preshya kuja smasane" (if Mars is in Human sign burial place results) .

Thus it is evident that many of maternal relatives are cremated in property

near maternal family and also that some symbols indicting the same is still

present there (i.e. in property near maternal house).

Venus indicate vehicles, 4th maternal relatives, Mars in human

sign a cremation gourd - all pointing to the untimely death of some maternal

relative in a vehicle accident and also that proper after death rituals not yet

conducted properly - an unsatisfied soul, whose memory is still present among

the native's maternal relatives.//

Your explanations are beautiful and in-depth, but what makes you

think that in Navamsha chart we are not supposed to see all that? We must, in

fact. That many do not go to such depths is the problem of the astrologer, not

the divisional chart.

 

//And so and so it goes . You can derive many many such derivations based on this

much understanding about the horoscope itself. You can look at the Mars in

Cancer as 8th lord, and think what results to be predicted if 8th lord is in

cancer 4th navamsa, or that what to be predicted if 8th lord's navamsaka is in

7th house and so on.//

Absolutely

 

Now you must tell us what is different in the two approaches except

the use of a single chart and two separate charts?

 

 

If there are some innovative applications under study and research, that

is a separate issue, which must be done to enhance and built upon our existing knowledgebase. RegardsNeelam

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh ji,Thanks for taking pains to explain it further. I get your point and see what you mean. But why do you see this as a pitfall? A separate chart does not change

anything but gives us a liberty to view it from various angles.

Lagnamsha gains importance but it IS important in any case. One has to see how different amshkas are placed from lagna amsha.//Now by fixing the Lagnamsaka as the new starting point you have made

the whole system upside down, and started committing all the mistakes I

have mentioned above.  In short destroying the traditional system, like

a neo-convert! " Putting lagnamsha as lagna " !! Isn't that enough! This

is the very reason I am against it - because it (D-charts) misleads

even the knowledgeable!//The perspective changes, the system does not become upside down. It is not rashi chart that one is viewing, but the particular division. As you say, the house where lagnamsha fall gains importance. One might just say, the house which rises as lagnamsha gains importance.

Regarding the aspects and transits in Navamsha, I take your word that it is not mentioned in ancient rishi horas, but many later medieval astrologers have mentioned aspects which are possible only in amshas. Transits on amshas are what Nadi literature is all about. I wonder why you do not consider it ancient enough? However, I have not read all ancient works, so I cannot comment on that.

Having been convinced about the working of divisional charts, I would like you to think of them with respect and not like some BATS hanging in dark corners!! :-)I would love to find one day, some literature older than what you've handled, which would've mentioned the aspects and transits on amshas and make you believe that true knowledge is what is proven through impirical evidence and research. And even when thus proven, there may not be anything new, same old facts and findings rediscovered by mankind in various eras.

Thanks for the wonderful sharings!RegardsNeelam2009/10/11 sreesog <sreesog

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Neelam ji,   You want to see the differences here? Here are some -//What

is the difference in the two approaches? Except, you are using

mixed chart of JHora and we are using separate charts of Jhora with

same

placements. Only difference is that in the separate 'amsha bodhak'

chart we have placed lagnamsha, instead of lagna. Though later both

charts are maneouvered variously to check from different points.

Reading is the same.// No - you got it all wrong.  Please note the following points - 1) It is not JHora which started first but traditional astrology.  As per traditional system we mark Navamsa outside the natal chart but ofcourse there is no system of drawing a chart outside. But ofcourse this immaterial,  as JHora mixed chart style reflects the arrangement we use somewhat closely.  So there is not much difference in this.

2) But when someone start drawing the Namava chart separately the whole thing changes! Because now " the starting point itself is different " ! For the traditionalists the Natal Lagna itself was the starting point, but for  the D-chartists the Lagna navamsaka becomes the starting point! If the starting point itself changes what to say about the result interpretation there off! All the slokas would be mis-interpreted there of to suit the erroneous starting point chosen! For the D-chartists ignorance the sages would be blamed!

  3) Further -                   * Drishti is NOT considered in Namamsaka (But the D-chartists bring in this concept which was unknown  to sages)                * Transit is NEVER considered in Navamsaka (But the D-chartists bring in this concept as well, which was unknown to the sages)

         For traditionalists Drishti and Transit applies only to the natal chart, because there is only one chart that is Natal Rasi chart.  Navamsaka is an amplification of the underlying reality itself and NOT a new vertual reality (virtual world) created - where you can apply all the rules of the real world such as Drishti and Trasit. If someone starts seeing Navamsaka as something which has something that has independent existance, where Dirishti and Transit can be considered there certainly he is NOT following traditional astrology, but instead is either creating or following a newborn absurd system.

     If somebody wants to do that - it is ok. But that is there path, and I won't see it as part of traditional ancient indian astrology.     However they try to misinterpret the quotes, then it is also evident that there is not even a single support for their approach in ancient indian astrological classics.

//In a divisional chart, we also see which

house of rashi and which sign rises and gets to play a larger

role in the canvas of life. In fact, putting lagnamsha as lagna of the divisional chart makes this a focus point.//    Yes! This was the pitfall I was mentioning!  Now by fixing the Lagnamsaka as the new starting point you have made the whole system upside down, and started committing all the mistakes I have mentioned above.  In short destroying the traditional system, like a neo-convert! " Putting lagnamsha as lagna " !! Isn't that enough! This is the very reason I am against it - because it (D-charts) misleads even the knowledgeable!

//Now you must tell us what is different in the two approaches except

the use of a single chart and two separate charts? //  Can't you see  the difference - from the explanations given above?!   Even after this explanation you cannot see it, I wonder how can I make you understand this point!

Love and regards,Sreenadh , neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote:

Dear Sreenadh ji,

You sure are a vast reservoir and we must keep coming back to you for more! 

 

Thanks for the beautiful glimpse of the system. Please allow me to

tell you through this glimpse that WE do not become alien just by using a

separate chart for the concerned amshas. It is just about the same with all its

`purity'.

 I am sorry I didn't say which lagna, but as you know that was immaterial

and you fixed something. Thanks.

 Let us see where we diverge from the ancient Horas. This is just to

clear our understanding of two approaches as you say.

 

//Thus we have -

  * Aries Lagna with lagnamsaka in Gemini AND

  * Lagna lord Mars in Cancer with Mars Navamsaka in Libra.

 This is the combination for which I am supposed to give the possible

results.

  But before that there are two questions -

 1) How will you mark it on the natal chart?

  What is the problem here?! Just use the mixed chart view (even in JHora

it is pesent) with Natal chart inside and

Navamsaka marked outside. This itself is the style we use to read/understand Natal chart along with

navamsaka marked.

  2)   How will you refer to the lagna navamsha?

  Again, what is the problem here? It is Aries lagna Gemini Navamsaka and

Mars in Cancer lagna with Libra navamsaka. Here  Lagna is placed in Aries

3rd Navamsa and Mars is placed in Cancer in Cancer 4th navamsa. No confusion at

all! //

What

is the difference in the two approaches? Except, you are using

mixed chart of JHora and we are using separate charts of Jhora with

same

placements. Only difference is that in the separate 'amsha bodhak'

chart we have placed lagnamsha, instead of lagna. Though later both

charts are maneouvered variously to check from different points.

Reading is the same.

 

// 

Now let us go to the results -

  * Start with general results for Aries Lagna and Mars in Cancer - such

as round honey colered eyes, interest in eating hot cooked vegetables, easily

becoming angry and easily becoming happy, likes to travel, like sex,

taking elder like responsibility at home, systematic, probability of having a

heart attack (due to the presence of Mars in 4th)  etc etc. 

Elaborate as much you can based on standard texts and techniques.//

No difference

 

//  Now coming to results considering Navamsas -

1) Lagna Navamsa (3rd Navamsa of Aries)

 * Native took birth in the 3rd Navamsa of Aries. As per Saravali -

  Vyaplupta kesa gauro vyastabhujascharu nayana nasascha

  Vakpanditastriteeye jatastu krisorujanu jankhascha

Meaning, white hair here and their, long arms, beautiful eyes and nose,

knowledgeable, thin legs compared to the proportion of the body.//

No difference. That is how we must proceed too. If some is not doing so, it is astrologer's problem.

 

//2) Lagana Navamsaka (Gemini Navamsaka)

 As per Brihat Jataka - " Lagna Navamsaka tulya tanu syat " (body

would be indicated by Lagna navamsaka). Here since the lagna navamsaka falls in

Gemini the general characteristics of Gemini sign will get mixed with the

original nature of Aries Lagna.  Fun filled eyes (while viewing), lowered

shoulders, moderate physique (not too high, not too fat) etc

example.  Improve on this anyway you want based on your capability to add

the nature of Gemini sign with the original nature of Aries sign - your

articulation capability could be better than me in this case.

Lagna navamsaka falls in 3rd house means that 3rd house related

things/matters  such as co-borns, writing, publishing, helping others,

small journeys  etc could play a major role in his life - a possibility.

Since the Lagna Navamsaka falls in Mercury's sign the quotes such as -

 Soumyasya bhage navame sasankaH karoti soumyam satatam sukhadhyam

 Nityam suhrid devaguruprasaktam mahadhanam panditamapremeyam

 Meaning, He would be compationate, will live a happy life, will respect

friends-relatives-deities-teachers, will be wealthy and knowledgeable etc

- become applicable.

  Or in short, the point that native is Aries 3rd navamsa born itself

indicate that the chart is good and that the native is most possibly going to

lead a good life. //

Absolutely. No difference of opinion here too. In a divisional chart, we also see which

house of rashi and which sign rises and gets to play a larger

role in the canvas of life. In fact, putting lagnamsha as lagna of the divisional chart makes this a focus point.

 

//Mars as Lagna Lord:

=============

 Mars the lagna lord is placed in 4th navamsa of Cancer.

 Cancer is the 4th sign indicating heart, education, mind, maternal family

and relatives and much more. Plenty of results such as possibility of heart

attach, goddess worship in maternal family, extra importance to mother in

family, gradual destruction of maternal family, untimely deaths and disseases

happening among maternal family relatives etc are all predictable based on Mars

in 4th in debilitation itself. It is well evident that Mars Dasa won't be much

beneficial to this native if it comes.

   As you know - during Mars dasa and antara bad results

as told by Phaladeepika such as -

  " Neecha grahe adhapatanam swavrittair

  Dainyam duracharam Rinaptipamahu

  Neechasrayam keekata desavasam

  Bhrityadhvam adhvanyanarthakaryam " etc will become applicable.

  But Mars dasa does not come there is not much to worry.

  The nature ascribed to 4th Navamsa of Cancer as per Saravali is -

  syamaschavir natabhru vilasa peenonnataH sunasakshaH

  KsheenaH purusho data sujatikaryaschaturthe syat

  Meaning, an individual with not much fair skin, one who likes enjoyment,

heavy body, good face with good eyes and nose, weak, helping others, puts

efforts for the upliftment of own caste  etc.

  Since Mars is the significator of brother you can ascribe these natures

to native's brother (if he have one as indicated by other combinations).

Further some amount of these characteristics can be  ascribed to mother as

well.

  Further the terminology "   KsheenaH purusho " (Weak

individual) for Mars in Cancer 3rd navama again indicate that if Mars dasa

comes the period won't be positive for the native healthwise and will make him

weak (during that period).

 

Further since it a malefic Mars in 4th  Prasnamarga 14th chapter 54th

sloka such as -

  " Matur matula bhagineya suhridam go vesma sayyasana

........... "    etc mentioning - problems to mother, maternal

uncles, relatives, loss of property, heart disease, vehicle accident etc all

becomes important in this chart.  But ofcourse those results will

materialize only in Dasas and Antaras proper to them such as either in Mars

dasa, or in Moon dasa or so. //

Sure and beautiful. How enriching! I wish I could ask you for every

combination. We too study like that, though competence of astrologer cannot be

vouched for. The system surely advocates so.

 

//Since the Navamsaka of Mars - a malefic - falls in 7th house

indicating hip area we will have to say that the hip area of the native is not

much beautiful as compared to his upper body. Further there could be some marks

as well in that area as indicated by Mars Navamsaka.

Aries native is usually much interested in sex, but a Mars navamsa

in 7th in Venus's house gives almost an opposite effect. For example if Mars

navamsaka is in a sing owned by Venus, then the results told are -

  Sukrasya bhage navame to bhaumaH karoti martyam ratilubdhasoukhyam

  Suhrid guru preetikaram suvakyam Sudharma raktam bahu britya yuktam

 Meaning, if Mars navamsaka is in Venus's sign, then the native will have

less happiness only from sex (especially with wife).  He would be good

natured having good relationship with his friends, relatives, teachers, deities

etc. He will have many servents as well (i.e. many will work under him). 

  This result can be ascribed not only to the native, but also to his

brother (since Mars is the indicator of co-borns) , to his wife, and to his

mother to an extent.

  7th house is 4th from 4th house (i.e. near house property of maternal

family), and Libra is a human sign. As per Brihat Jataka " Nrilagnagam

preshya kuja smasane " (if Mars is in Human sign burial place results) .

Thus it is evident that many of maternal relatives are cremated in property

near maternal family and also that some symbols indicting the same is still

present there (i.e. in property near maternal house).

   Venus indicate vehicles, 4th maternal relatives, Mars in human

sign a cremation gourd - all pointing to the untimely death of some maternal

relative in a vehicle accident and also that proper after death rituals not yet

conducted properly - an unsatisfied soul, whose memory is still present among

the native's maternal relatives.//

Your explanations are beautiful and in-depth, but what makes you

think that in Navamsha chart we are not supposed to see all that? We must, in

fact. That many do not go to such depths is the problem of the astrologer, not

the divisional chart.

 

//And so and so it goes . You can derive many many such derivations based on this

much understanding about the horoscope itself. You can look at the Mars in

Cancer as 8th lord, and think what results to be predicted if 8th lord is in

cancer 4th navamsa, or that what to be predicted if 8th lord's navamsaka is in

7th house and so on.//

Absolutely

 

Now you must tell us what is different in the two approaches except

the use of a single chart and two separate charts?

 

 

If there are some innovative applications under study and research, that

is a separate issue, which must be done to enhance and built upon our existing knowledgebase. RegardsNeelam

[Guest guest]

Dear Dev ji, //> By Amsaka, what I understand is sign in which Amsa falls. Correct me if I am wrong.// You understanding is correct.//> To me , amsaka shall not change for 4th lord in ASC (Rasi chart) window. Amsaka of 4th house shall change.// I couldn't understand this sentence. If you are speaking about Lagnamsa and Lagnamsaka then, * Lagna stays in a sign for 2 hours approx. * Lagnamsa (position within sign where Asc is present) changes in 13 min 20 sec each (approx) * When the Lagnamsa change naturally the Lagnamsaka (Sign in which Lagnamsa falls) will also change. That means Lagnamsa also changes after each 13 min 20 sec time. But for other planets, since the speed of planets differ, the duration within which the planet changes the Amsa and Amsaka will depend on the speed of the planet. Love and regards,Sreenadh , "axeplex" <axeplex wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> > I would love to see some examples if you can explain it with.> By Amsaka, what I understand is sign in which Amsa falls. Correct me if I am wrong.> > To me , amsaka shall not change for 4th lord in ASC (Rasi chart) window. Amsaka of 4th house shall change.> > Regarding some doubts raised by members, I agree with you that 4th is for formal education, 5th for Intellect, 9th for higher eucation ....> > regds> Dev

[Guest guest]

Dear Srinadh and Neelam Ji,

 

The aspects that people apply in D charts for reading planetary strength don't

exist in reality, it's a way of using a virtual tool ( " D " chart) for exhaustive

understandig.

 

Seem's proposed " traditional system " has some vagueness or it's not properly

being stated or at least i m not able to understand what's being proposed as

" ancient traditional system " and where is the base for that, W'd like to get

references of this ancient " traditional amsha system " , which seems yesterday's

baby, is it different then what's drawn in the form of various " D " charts, pls

help ?

 

However, I understood what Neelam ji has said in following para -

 

" A separate chart does not change anything but gives us a liberty to view it

from various angles, Lagnamsha gains importance but it IS important in any case.

One has to see how different amshkas are placed from lagna amsha " .

 

regards,

Utkal.

 

, neelam gupta

<neelamgupta07 wrote:

>

> Dear Sreenadh ji,

>

> Thanks for taking pains to explain it further. I get your point and see what

> you mean. But why do you see this as a pitfall? A separate chart does not

> change anything but gives us a liberty to view it from various angles.

> Lagnamsha gains importance but it IS important in any case. One has to see

> how different amshkas are placed from lagna amsha.

>

> //Now by fixing the Lagnamsaka as the new starting point you have made the

> whole system upside down, and started committing all the mistakes I have

> mentioned above. In short destroying the traditional system, like a

> neo-convert! " Putting lagnamsha as lagna " !! Isn't that enough! This is the

> very reason I am against it - because it (D-charts) misleads even the

> knowledgeable!//

>

> The perspective changes, the system does not become upside down. It is not

> rashi chart that one is viewing, but the particular division. As you say,

> the house where lagnamsha fall gains importance. One might just say, the

> house which rises as lagnamsha gains importance.

>

> Regarding the aspects and transits in Navamsha, I take your word that it is

> not mentioned in ancient rishi horas, but many later medieval astrologers

> have mentioned aspects which are possible only in amshas. Transits on amshas

> are what Nadi literature is all about. I wonder why you do not consider it

> ancient enough? However, I have not read all ancient works, so I cannot

> comment on that.

>

> Having been convinced about the working of divisional charts, I would like

> you to think of them with respect and not like some BATS hanging in dark

> corners!! :-)

> I would love to find one day, some literature older than what you've

> handled, which would've mentioned the aspects and transits on amshas and

> make you believe that *true knowledge is what is proven through impirical

> evidence and research*. And even when thus proven, there may not be anything

> new, same old facts and findings rediscovered by mankind in various eras.

>

> Thanks for the wonderful sharings!

>

> Regards

> Neelam

>

>

>

> 2009/10/11 sreesog <sreesog

>

> >

> >

> > Dear Neelam ji,

> > You want to see the differences here? Here are some -

> > //What is the difference in the two approaches? Except, you are using

> > mixed chart of JHora and we are using separate charts of Jhora with same

> > placements. Only difference is that in the separate 'amsha bodhak' chart we

> > have placed lagnamsha, instead of lagna. Though later both charts are

> > maneouvered variously to check from different points. Reading is the same.

> > //

> > No - you got it all wrong. Please note the following points -

> > 1) It is not JHora which started first but traditional astrology. As per

> > traditional system we mark Navamsa outside the natal chart but ofcourse

> > there is no system of drawing a chart outside. But ofcourse this

> > immaterial, as JHora mixed chart style reflects the arrangement we use

> > somewhat closely. So there is not much difference in this.

> > 2) But when someone start drawing the Namava chart separately the whole

> > thing changes! Because now " the starting point itself is different " ! For the

> > traditionalists the Natal Lagna itself was the starting point, but for the

> > D-chartists the Lagna navamsaka becomes the starting point! If the starting

> > point itself changes what to say about the result interpretation there off!

> > All the slokas would be mis-interpreted there of to suit the erroneous

> > starting point chosen! For the D-chartists ignorance the sages would be

> > blamed!

> > 3) Further -

> > * Drishti is NOT considered in Namamsaka (But the

> > D-chartists bring in this concept which was unknown to sages)

> > * Transit is NEVER considered in Navamsaka (But the

> > D-chartists bring in this concept as well, which was unknown to the sages)

> > For traditionalists Drishti and Transit applies only to the natal

> > chart, because there is only one chart that is Natal Rasi chart. Navamsaka

> > is an amplification of the underlying reality itself and NOT a new vertual

> > reality (virtual world) created - where you can apply all the rules of the

> > real world such as Drishti and Trasit. If someone starts seeing Navamsaka as

> > something which has something that has independent existance, where Dirishti

> > and Transit can be considered there certainly he is NOT following

> > traditional astrology, but instead is either creating or following a newborn

> > absurd system.

> > If somebody wants to do that - it is ok. But that is there path, and I

> > won't see it as part of traditional ancient indian astrology.

> > However they try to misinterpret the quotes, then it is also evident

> > that there is not even a single support for their approach in ancient indian

> > astrological classics.

> > //In a divisional chart, we also see which house of rashi and which sign

> > rises and gets to play a larger role in the canvas of life. In fact, putting

> > lagnamsha as lagna of the divisional chart makes this a focus point.//

> > Yes! This was the pitfall I was mentioning! Now by fixing the Lagnamsaka

> > as the new starting point you have made the whole system upside down, and

> > started committing all the mistakes I have mentioned above. In short

> > destroying the traditional system, like a neo-convert! " Putting lagnamsha as

> > lagna " !! Isn't that enough! This is the very reason I am against it -

> > because it (D-charts) misleads even the knowledgeable!

> > //Now you must tell us what is different in the two approaches except the

> > use of a single chart and two separate charts? //

> > Can't you see the difference - from the explanations given above?!

> > Even after this explanation you cannot see it, I wonder how can I make

> > you understand this point!

> > Love and regards,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , neelam gupta

> > <neelamgupta07@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sreenadh ji,

> >

> >

> > You sure are a vast reservoir and we must keep coming back to you for

> > more!

> >

> > Thanks for the beautiful glimpse of the system. Please allow me to tell you

> > through this glimpse that WE do not become alien just by using a separate

> > chart for the concerned amshas. It is just about the same with all its

> > `purity'.

> >

> > I am sorry I didn't say which lagna, but as you know that was immaterial

> > and you fixed something. Thanks.

> >

> > Let us see where we diverge from the ancient Horas. This is just to clear

> > our understanding of two approaches as you say.

> >

> >

> >

> > //Thus we have -

> > * Aries Lagna with lagnamsaka in Gemini AND

> > * Lagna lord Mars in Cancer with Mars Navamsaka in Libra.

> > This is the combination for which I am supposed to give the possible

> > results.

> > But before that there are two questions -

> > 1) How will you mark it on the natal chart?

> > What is the problem here?! Just use the mixed chart view (even in JHora

> > it is pesent) with Natal chart inside and Navamsaka marked outside. This

> > itself is the style we use to read/understand Natal chart along with

> > navamsaka marked.

> > 2) How will you refer to the lagna navamsha?

> > Again, what is the problem here? It is Aries lagna Gemini Navamsaka and

> > Mars in Cancer lagna with Libra navamsaka. Here Lagna is placed in Aries

> > 3rd Navamsa and Mars is placed in Cancer in Cancer 4th navamsa. No confusion

> > at all! //

> >

> >

> > What is the difference in the two approaches? Except, you are using mixed

> > chart of JHora and we are using separate charts of Jhora with same

> > placements. Only difference is that in the separate 'amsha bodhak' chart we

> > have placed lagnamsha, instead of lagna. Though later both charts are

> > maneouvered variously to check from different points. Reading is the same.

> >

> >

> > // Now let us go to the results -

> > * Start with general results for Aries Lagna and Mars in Cancer - such as

> > round honey colered eyes, interest in eating hot cooked vegetables, easily

> > becoming angry and easily becoming happy, likes to travel, like sex, taking

> > elder like responsibility at home, systematic, probability of having a heart

> > attack (due to the presence of Mars in 4th) etc etc. Elaborate as much you

> > can based on standard texts and techniques.//

> >

> > No difference

> >

> >

> > // Now coming to results considering Navamsas -

> > 1) Lagna Navamsa (3rd Navamsa of Aries)

> > * Native took birth in the 3rd Navamsa of Aries. As per Saravali -

> > Vyaplupta kesa gauro vyastabhujascharu nayana nasascha

> > Vakpanditastriteeye jatastu krisorujanu jankhascha

> > Meaning, white hair here and their, long arms, beautiful eyes and nose,

> > knowledgeable, thin legs compared to the proportion of the body.//

> >

> > No difference. That is how we must proceed too. If some is not doing so,

> > it is astrologer's problem.

> >

> > //2) Lagana Navamsaka (Gemini Navamsaka)

> > As per Brihat Jataka - " Lagna Navamsaka tulya tanu syat " (body would be

> > indicated by Lagna navamsaka). Here since the lagna navamsaka falls in

> > Gemini the general characteristics of Gemini sign will get mixed with the

> > original nature of Aries Lagna. Fun filled eyes (while viewing), lowered

> > shoulders, moderate physique (not too high, not too fat) etc example.

> > Improve on this anyway you want based on your capability to add the nature

> > of Gemini sign with the original nature of Aries sign - your articulation

> > capability could be better than me in this case.

> > Lagna navamsaka falls in 3rd house means that 3rd house related

> > things/matters such as co-borns, writing, publishing, helping others, small

> > journeys etc could play a major role in his life - a possibility.

> > Since the Lagna Navamsaka falls in Mercury's sign the quotes such as -

> > Soumyasya bhage navame sasankaH karoti soumyam satatam sukhadhyam

> > Nityam suhrid devaguruprasaktam mahadhanam panditamapremeyam

> > Meaning, He would be compationate, will live a happy life, will respect

> > friends-relatives-deities-teachers, will be wealthy and knowledgeable etc -

> > become applicable.

> > Or in short, the point that native is Aries 3rd navamsa born itself

> > indicate that the chart is good and that the native is most possibly going

> > to lead a good life. //

> >

> > Absolutely. No difference of opinion here too. In a divisional chart, we

> > also see which house of rashi and which sign rises and gets to play a larger

> > role in the canvas of life. In fact, putting lagnamsha as lagna of the

> > divisional chart makes this a focus point.

> >

> >

> > //Mars as Lagna Lord:

> > =============

> > Mars the lagna lord is placed in 4th navamsa of Cancer.

> > Cancer is the 4th sign indicating heart, education, mind, maternal family

> > and relatives and much more. Plenty of results such as possibility of heart

> > attach, goddess worship in maternal family, extra importance to mother in

> > family, gradual destruction of maternal family, untimely deaths and

> > disseases happening among maternal family relatives etc are all predictable

> > based on Mars in 4th in debilitation itself. It is well evident that Mars

> > Dasa won't be much beneficial to this native if it comes.

> >

> > As you know - during Mars dasa and antara bad results as told by

> > Phaladeepika such as -

> > " Neecha grahe adhapatanam swavrittair

> > Dainyam duracharam Rinaptipamahu

> > Neechasrayam keekata desavasam

> > Bhrityadhvam adhvanyanarthakaryam " etc will become applicable.

> > But Mars dasa does not come there is not much to worry.

> > The nature ascribed to 4th Navamsa of Cancer as per Saravali is -

> > syamaschavir natabhru vilasa peenonnataH sunasakshaH

> > KsheenaH purusho data sujatikaryaschaturthe syat

> > Meaning, an individual with not much fair skin, one who likes enjoyment,

> > heavy body, good face with good eyes and nose, weak, helping others, puts

> > efforts for the upliftment of own caste etc.

> > Since Mars is the significator of brother you can ascribe these natures

> > to native's brother (if he have one as indicated by other combinations).

> > Further some amount of these characteristics can be ascribed to mother as

> > well.

> > Further the terminology " KsheenaH purusho " (Weak individual) for Mars

> > in Cancer 3rd navama again indicate that if Mars dasa comes the period won't

> > be positive for the native healthwise and will make him weak (during that

> > period).

> >

> >

> > Further since it a malefic Mars in 4th Prasnamarga 14th chapter 54th sloka

> > such as -

> > " Matur matula bhagineya suhridam go vesma sayyasana .......... " etc

> > mentioning - problems to mother, maternal uncles, relatives, loss of

> > property, heart disease, vehicle accident etc all becomes important in this

> > chart. But ofcourse those results will materialize only in Dasas and

> > Antaras proper to them such as either in Mars dasa, or in Moon dasa or so.

> > //

> >

> > Sure and beautiful. How enriching! I wish I could ask you for every

> > combination. We too study like that, though competence of astrologer cannot

> > be vouched for. The system surely advocates so.

> >

> >

> > //Since the Navamsaka of Mars - a malefic - falls in 7th house indicating

> > hip area we will have to say that the hip area of the native is not much

> > beautiful as compared to his upper body. Further there could be some marks

> > as well in that area as indicated by Mars Navamsaka.

> >

> > Aries native is usually much interested in sex, but a Mars navamsa in 7th

> > in Venus's house gives almost an opposite effect. For example if Mars

> > navamsaka is in a sing owned by Venus, then the results told are -

> > Sukrasya bhage navame to bhaumaH karoti martyam ratilubdhasoukhyam

> > Suhrid guru preetikaram suvakyam Sudharma raktam bahu britya yuktam

> > Meaning, if Mars navamsaka is in Venus's sign, then the native will have

> > less happiness only from sex (especially with wife). He would be good

> > natured having good relationship with his friends, relatives, teachers,

> > deities etc. He will have many servents as well (i.e. many will work under

> > him).

> > This result can be ascribed not only to the native, but also to his

> > brother (since Mars is the indicator of co-borns) , to his wife, and to his

> > mother to an extent.

> > 7th house is 4th from 4th house (i.e. near house property of maternal

> > family), and Libra is a human sign. As per Brihat Jataka " Nrilagnagam

> > preshya kuja smasane " (if Mars is in Human sign burial place results) . Thus

> > it is evident that many of maternal relatives are cremated in property near

> > maternal family and also that some symbols indicting the same is still

> > present there (i.e. in property near maternal house).

> > Venus indicate vehicles, 4th maternal relatives, Mars in human sign a

> > cremation gourd - all pointing to the untimely death of some maternal

> > relative in a vehicle accident and also that proper after death rituals not

> > yet conducted properly - an unsatisfied soul, whose memory is still present

> > among the native's maternal relatives.//

> >

> > Your explanations are beautiful and in-depth, but what makes you think that

> > in Navamsha chart we are not supposed to see all that? We must, in fact.

> > That many do not go to such depths is the problem of the astrologer, not the

> > divisional chart.

> >

> >

> > //And so and so it goes . You can derive many many such derivations based

> > on this much understanding about the horoscope itself. You can look at the

> > Mars in Cancer as 8th lord, and think what results to be predicted if 8th

> > lord is in cancer 4th navamsa, or that what to be predicted if 8th lord's

> > navamsaka is in 7th house and so on.//

> >

> > Absolutely

> >

> >

> >

> > Now you must tell us what is different in the two approaches except the use

> > of a single chart and two separate charts?

> >

> > If there are some innovative applications under study and research, that

> > is a separate issue, which must be done to enhance and built upon our

> > existing knowledgebase.

> >

> >

> > Regards

> > Neelam

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam ji, //One has to see how different amshkas are placed from lagna amsha.// No - we don't have to! This itself is the idea not supported and not dealt with by the ancient asto classics. The point is relative distance of other amsas from lagnamsa is IRRELEVANT. Please try to grasp this point, and understand absurdity of D-charts. I will try to explain with an example - Think that Sun is in Aries first navamsa (Thus, Sun navamsaka falls in Aries itself) and Saturn in Libra 9th navamsa (Thus Saturn navamsaka falls in Gemini). * It is relevant that, Sun is placed in Aries sign, in an area within Aries sign that is ascribed to Aries and mars. * It is relevant that Saturn is placed in Libra sign, in an area within Libra sign that is ascribed to Gemini and mercury. * Saturn navamsaka is in Gemini, 3rd house from Natal Lagna. This is

relevant because Saturn is placed in an area (with in Libra sign) that

is ascribed to Gemini and mercury. Thus that Saturn will definitely

affect the qualities of Gemini and its lord mercury. So this is

relevant. * But what relevance the statement "Saturn navamsaka is third from Lagnamsaka in Aries" has? What is the meaning it conveys? Does it convey any meaning at all?! So this is IRRELEVANT. (Try to see this point). What will you "understand" if someone says that saturn's amsa is in 3rd house from lagnamsaka? Do you have any quotes with you to tell the results for the same? No Can you come to any conclusion about the REAL position (producing same result) of Lagna or Saturn from the same? No. Does any astrological classic advice you to look at other amsa positions from lagnamsaka? No The why this stupidity? Are we trying to learn ancient indian astrology as guided/taught by the ancient astrological classics or are we trying to build a new (but illogical) system? If we are "trying to learn the ancient indian astrology as taught by the sages", then definitely D-charts is not the path to take. Hope I have clarified my stand point.//> Having been convinced about the working of divisional charts, I would like> you to think of them with respect and not like some BATS hanging in dark> corners!! :-)// They are not even bats in dark corners - but mere darkness! //> I would love to find one day, some literature older than what you've> handled, which would've mentioned the aspects and transits on amshas and> make you believe that *true knowledge is what is proven through impirical> evidence and research*.// Something is generally called research only when we have found something valuable, or when at least we are in the path. If "I would love to find some way" - then that is a mere wish and not research. Anyway, all the best in your search for the wish fulfillment. But I have a simple question - If possibility of something like that was present - why there is at least a glimpse of the same some where in the vast amount of books and quotes survived? Is it not clear evidence for the fact that - it is a wrong path? Why can't we first study, what we have already at hand, and try to understand it in a better way; than running after a wishful thinking? Love and regards,Sreenadh , neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> > Thanks for taking pains to explain it further. I get your point and see what> you mean. But why do you see this as a pitfall? A separate chart does not> change anything but gives us a liberty to view it from various angles.> Lagnamsha gains importance but it IS important in any case. One has to see> how different amshkas are placed from lagna amsha.> > //Now by fixing the Lagnamsaka as the new starting point you have made the> whole system upside down, and started committing all the mistakes I have> mentioned above. In short destroying the traditional system, like a> neo-convert! "Putting lagnamsha as lagna"!! Isn't that enough! This is the> very reason I am against it - because it (D-charts) misleads even the> knowledgeable!//> > The perspective changes, the system does not become upside down. It is not> rashi chart that one is viewing, but the particular division. As you say,> the house where lagnamsha fall gains importance. One might just say, the> house which rises as lagnamsha gains importance.> > Regarding the aspects and transits in Navamsha, I take your word that it is> not mentioned in ancient rishi horas, but many later medieval astrologers> have mentioned aspects which are possible only in amshas. Transits on amshas> are what Nadi literature is all about. I wonder why you do not consider it> ancient enough? However, I have not read all ancient works, so I cannot> comment on that.> > Having been convinced about the working of divisional charts, I would like> you to think of them with respect and not like some BATS hanging in dark> corners!! :-)> I would love to find one day, some literature older than what you've> handled, which would've mentioned the aspects and transits on amshas and> make you believe that *true knowledge is what is proven through impirical> evidence and research*. And even when thus proven, there may not be anything> new, same old facts and findings rediscovered by mankind in various eras.> > Thanks for the wonderful sharings!> > Regards> Neelam

[Guest guest]

Dear Utkal ji, //> The aspects that people apply in D charts for reading planetary

strength don't exist in reality, it's a way of using a virtual tool

("D" chart) for exhaustive understandig.// From something that doesn't exist in reality what "understanding" by using a virtual tool we will get? Are we not speaking about the reality of planetary aspect and transit? To see the absurdity involved in looking at this "virtual tool" with lagnamsaka as starting point is clarified in the message: /message/26179//> Seem's proposed "traditional system" has some vagueness or it's

not properly being stated or at least i m not able to understand what's

being proposed as "ancient traditional system" and where is the base

for that, W'd like to get references of this ancient "traditional amsha

system", which seems yesterday's baby, is it different then what's

drawn in the form of various "D" charts, pls help ?// What is its base? The quotes available in various astro classics. Traditional approach DOES NOT deviate from the ancient astro classics, and USES and DEPENDS UPON quotes from the ancient astro classics itself. Check the following message for clarification with an example: /message/26134 What is the difference? You are asking the same question as neelam ji asks. Please follow the thread response to her questions. You will get the answer in the message: /message/26170(Please ask questions that haven't answered already. It is difficult to always clarify separately)//> However, I understood what Neelam ji has said in following para - >

"A separate chart does not change anything but gives us a liberty to

view it from various angles, Lagnamsha gains importance but it IS

important in any case. One has to see how different amshkas are placed

from lagna amsha".// Good that I have to give only one answer to You and Neelam ji. Bat because the statement and assumption is wrong. Please refer the above message itself. i.e to: /message/26170Love and regards,Sreeandh , "utkal.panigrahi" <utkal.panigrahi wrote:>> Dear Srinadh and Neelam Ji,> > The aspects that people apply in D charts for reading planetary strength don't exist in reality, it's a way of using a virtual tool ("D" chart) for exhaustive understandig.> > Seem's proposed "traditional system" has some vagueness or it's not properly being stated or at least i m not able to understand what's being proposed as "ancient traditional system" and where is the base for that, W'd like to get references of this ancient "traditional amsha system", which seems yesterday's baby, is it different then what's drawn in the form of various "D" charts, pls help ?> > However, I understood what Neelam ji has said in following para - > "A separate chart does not change anything but gives us a liberty to view it from various angles, Lagnamsha gains importance but it IS important in any case. One has to see how different amshkas are placed from lagna amsha".> > regards,> Utkal.