Greetings

[Guest guest]

Excedrin is VERY high in caffeine. To get off caffeine, you have to wean yourself, a little bit at a time. I find that taking the tablets is better than coffee, because coffee is very acidic which can make you feel weird in itself. Even decaf makes me feel a little weird, and I think it's the acidity. To get off caffeine, take a little less of a c. pill every day, or even every few days, till you're just having a minute fraction. Then ... nothing. Your friend might try that with the Excedrin tablets.

 

 

.... Bettina

 

 

 

 

Patrice Curry [patricecurry]Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:55 PM Subject: Re: Greetings

 

Hi Debra and Bettina,

Boy, you two have really been through it - awful. Migraines are crippling. I know that my friend, that has always suffered them and is having a terrible time getting free of caffeine, had trouble believing that she could be headache free after trying so many things and attending headache clinics, etc... I have found caffeine often to be a huge one for people to get away from, for improvement from migraines, but also a very difficult one to get off of as you have said Bettina - hugely so for many. None of the allopathic medicines or docs were able to help her, and she had done quite a bit over the years so it can feel defeating after trying it all. She relied on Excedrin to "just get through" these years for so long now. She has an addiction to it and it is very, very tough to break.

No Debra, I haven't ever had the nerve test done. I was though very freaked about needles, use to faint as a child when they gave me shots ;-) My experience though with the acupuncturist was that the needles were no problem whatsoever, not painful, hardly felt them. And I was freaked still about them a bit when I went in.

The frozen shoulder is what causes no sleep and I was just finally so exhausted, and then ran into this situation so I tried it. I had been getting messages from people regarding how it really worked for frozen shoulders, and other positive feedback regarding acupuncture was coming at me from all directions ;-) so I finally just did it. It truly was amazing to then immediately begin sleeping again and the shoulder so much improved, no pain. All that remained was to work it and exercise it to regain my complete range of movement, which I'm now doing. The movement was also better right away following the acupuncture. Thanks for your kind wishes.

Remarkably following acupuncture, as this is my 2nd frozen shoulder and I hadn't tried it with my first (went to physical therapy on that one and it lasted MUCH longer as they usually last a minimum of a year) my shoulder just got stronger and stronger and the atrophy that happens went away completely, which is what causes much of the pain. For this one, astrologically, Saturn in my 11H, left shoulder... My right shoulder happened yes! when Saturn was in my 9H aspecting 3rd...

A friend of mine wrote a couple of wonderful books on women's health, one on menopause and has traveled the world to attend women's health gatherings as a Women's Health promoter in NZ, where the government gives classes and courses regarding women's health. She said that frozen shoulders are in fact also a hormone related thing in many, many cases. Apparently in Japan where women don't suffer many of the symptoms that are common in the west of peri-menopause and menopause, interestingly they have a high incident of frozen shoulders... And as I spent important years for learning diet, cooking, etc. between 18 and 30 mostly in Hawaii, and am vegetarian, I very much have always had an Asian diet. I also haven't had the more common western symptoms.

I use homeopathy as well and have had good experience with it, especially in acute situations. It has also been helping my friend deal with the acute symptoms in giving up caffeine. Caffeine is actually a surprisingly amazingly strong drug after all, and she has experienced fevers, sick feeling, aching, etc.. and the homeopathy is helping her. I don't know if you've tried that as well Debra.

I will continue on another post regarding your questions on nakshatra books and medical astrology, some experiences and the way I started on it.. Yes! it's very exciting! I'm glad you found the info helpful and are getting the books, great! The purple one you mentioned is by Dennis Harness. Bepin Behari has written some good ones and also there are tapes. One of the best things too is in Parashara's Light, in the "Astrology Lessons", there is all kinds of wonderful info on them there, even descriptions of all the deities of the nakshatras. All the basic books also give good basic info on them, such as Ernst Wilhelm's Vault of the Heavens, and Defouw and Svoboda's Light on Life. More soon.

I must get to something here tonight so will return on this info asap.

Wise words Bettina... thank you so much for your sharing as well.

Kindest wishes,

Patrice

________________________________

Oh, Patrice, your report is fantastic!!!

Hope frozen shoulder and sleep continue to be well. Keep us posted to your welfare.

I’m racing off to order Amazon for your book recommendations. Also, yes, there is a ch. Med dr ½ hour away. I think I will try and acupuncture possibility. Have you ever had that nerve test done. It’s where they stick you with a bunch of needles (EMG) everywhere to see if your nerve function is still right on. Horrible. So, when it comes to acupuncture, I have been a little leery because of the needles and its ensuing pain. But you know, there is just too many good things going on in alternative meds that I just can’t ignore or not give priority attention too. Just think, pain free! Yeah! I’ll settle for relief J

Charak is good. I am going to order this book too! I am fascinated with you work with the Nashastras. This is an area that I have not really investigated. But, maybe I should for better understanding and prediction. Or event synthesis. I would like to hear more. How did you start and go about it. Is there a book or reference to understand the Nashastra stars. I have one book. It is very small. Purple cover. Nashastra title. Need to go look. Anyway, it is the only book I have come across that explains this Vedic meaning of it’s stars and I think there is something valid to it in deciphering Vedic charts and personalities along with events. Also you study and work into Medical Astrology. How you have helped, where you see a lot of things in the chart cropping up etc. it is a whole other area of exploration, isn’t it?!

Debra

Dear Deb and Patrice ...

 

Deb, so sorry to hear about your health probs. They sound wretched. I would recommend rotating, and in your case, rotating everything. That's what I used to do in my mid to late 40s and early 50s. Rotate grains, veggies, fruits, maybe even seasonings. Avoid anything with mold (strong cheeses, for example), mushrooms, vinegar, chocolate. Maybe no yeast. Maybe no sugar. I discovered all kinds of grains I'd never tried before ... quinoa, millet, amaranth. I ate roots like tarot for starch. You become adventurous and creative. Now I only have to rotate the meaty type things ... also I only eat a little chocolate once a week for a special treat. I also am careful with mushrooms and never eat strong cheeses like sharp cheddar and blue cheese ... anything aged. Never drink coffee but take a fraction of a caffiene tablet if I'm sleepy in the daytime. Caffiene is really, really hard to get of off. Tea once in a while. No alcohol ever.

 

Yes, molds are terrible for mig. sufferers. Have you ever been checked for candida (yeast in your system)? Perhaps you could go to a naturopath. I believe in allopathic AND alternative medicine. Whatever works. Life is too precious to have it ruined by chronic pain. Do you still live in the Chicago area? There's probably a huge selection of alternative medical practioners there.

 

Patrice, thank you so much for you good guidance. It's great to be able to help each other out.

 

If I could have one bit of advice to offer all women, it would be "Don't take the bc pill!". I think it's one thing that contributed to my migs, even thought I wasn't on it anymore when they starting getting really bad. My theory is that by adding extra hormones to your system, you become sensitized to those hormones ... even the ones you produce yourself. Then you develop, in effect, an autoimmune response to them. Then factor in allergies and you have a real problem.

 

 

.... Bettina

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Bettina and Debra,

 

Yes, exactly. Thanks for your advice and thoughts, this is what she is doing, and it's working best from all she has tried in her attempts to get off caffeine.

 

Astrologically, she has a Gandanta Moon and in Ashwini, in her Ashwini ascendant. Things to strengthen this Moon have also been helping. Interestingly, she was once a nun when young so her instincts towards chanting Hail Mary's were right on.

 

Many thanks,

Patrice

_______

Excedrin is VERY high in caffeine. To get off caffeine, you have to wean yourself, a little bit at a time. I find that taking the tablets is better than coffee, because coffee is very acidic which can make you feel weird in itself. Even decaf makes me feel a little weird, and I think it's the acidity. To get off caffeine, take a little less of a c. pill every day, or even every few days, till you're just having a minute fraction. Then ... nothing. Your friend might try that with the Excedrin tablets.

 

 

.... Bettina

[Guest guest]

Patrice, what is a Gandata Moon?

 

 

.... Bettina

 

 

 

Patrice Curry [patricecurry]Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:59 PM Subject: Re: Greetings

 

Hi Bettina and Debra,

 

Yes, exactly. Thanks for your advice and thoughts, this is what she is doing, and it's working best from all she has tried in her attempts to get off caffeine.

 

Astrologically, she has a Gandanta Moon and in Ashwini, in her Ashwini ascendant. Things to strengthen this Moon have also been helping. Interestingly, she was once a nun when young so her instincts towards chanting Hail Mary's were right on.

 

Many thanks,

Patrice

_______

Excedrin is VERY high in caffeine. To get off caffeine, you have to wean yourself, a little bit at a time. I find that taking the tablets is better than coffee, because coffee is very acidic which can make you feel weird in itself. Even decaf makes me feel a little weird, and I think it's the acidity. To get off caffeine, take a little less of a c. pill every day, or even every few days, till you're just having a minute fraction. Then ... nothing. Your friend might try that with the Excedrin tablets.

 

 

.... Bettina

[Guest guest]

Patrice,

 

Is there a possibility to study this chart of this yong woman? What

too ia a gandanta Moon? Are you refering to the chart from the

Nakshatra stars?

 

Debra

 

 

 

 

 

, " Patrice Curry "

<patricecurry@c...> wrote:

> Hi Bettina and Debra,

>

> Yes, exactly. Thanks for your advice and thoughts, this is what

she is doing, and it's working best from all she has tried in her

attempts to get off caffeine.

>

> Astrologically, she has a Gandanta Moon and in Ashwini, in her

Ashwini ascendant. Things to strengthen this Moon have also been

helping. Interestingly, she was once a nun when young so her

instincts towards chanting Hail Mary's were right on.

>

> Many thanks,

> Patrice

> _______

> Excedrin is VERY high in caffeine. To get off caffeine, you have

to wean yourself, a little bit at a time. I find that taking the

tablets is better than coffee, because coffee is very acidic which

can make you feel weird in itself. Even decaf makes me feel a

little weird, and I think it's the acidity. To get off caffeine,

take a little less of a c. pill every day, or even every few days,

till you're just having a minute fraction. Then ... nothing. Your

friend might try that with the Excedrin tablets.

>

>

> .... Bettina

[Guest guest]

Hello Dear Professor,

 

And to you and the members as well.

 

I thought I would include an article that speaks to the origins of the

Christian holidays being celebrated around the Winter Sostice.

 

Aloha,

 

Sally

 

 

Season's greetings and Merry Christmas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Christmas and Yule, Are They the Same?

By Godhi Adam Wycoff

 

 

 

From the below article in short:

 

 

"The trees were decorated to insure the tree spirits stayed instead

of leaving because of the cold winter. By decorating the trees with

bits of food, colored cloth, carved runes, small statues of the gods,

etc., our ancestors soothed the feelings

 

of the tree spirits, made the trees more attractive, and assured the

spirits continued presence.

 

 

Gifts were given in case friends or family didn't have enough

provisions for the winter. Exceptional gifts were given for good luck.

 

A feast was had to celebrate the fact that they made it this far

through the winter.

 

 

A boar was killed to sacrifice in order to have a good spring. Today we

have the boar's head with an apple in it's mouth.

 

 

Father Christmas, was Old Man Winter, and to give us a gentle

winter he was decorated and treated well to ensure an easy winter.

Actually "Santa Claus", as he is most commonly known, started out as a

Christian Monk who died in 345 C.E., and who eventually gained

sainthood.

 

Today the fat, jolly, red suited Old Man is actually an invention of

the Coca-Cola Company.

 

 

 

Before Clement Moore wrote his famous poem in 1822, Father

Christmas traveled by food or by giant white horse (Odin's horse

Sleipnir?). But

 

Moore, a very learned man and professor of Literature, changed all of

that forever when he

 

introduced the idea of reindeer pulling Santa's sleigh. This was

not done on a casual whim, but came from an ancient Finish legend about

"Old Man Winter". The ancient Finns believed that Old Man Winter drove

the reindeer down

 

the mountains, into the lowlands each year with the coming of the

cold (food source?). Moore grafted part of this Finnish legend onto

existing Father Christmas. Why eight reindeer? Some scholars have

speculated that the professor was

 

having some fun with the general populace by perking up his tale with a

scholarly

 

reference to Odin, who rides an eight legged horse.

 

In the fourth century C.E. Pope Julius I officially set the date of

Christ's

 

birth to December 25th, after a brief investigation. The truth is, no

one

 

had the faintest idea as to the actual date of his birth... they

weren't even certain about the year! "

 

 

Why do we celebrate a seemingly Christian holiday, "Christmas" or

"Yule", in

 

the religion of Asátrú?

 

 

Let us begin by clarifying something... Except for the Nativity Scene

and

 

Christmas Mass, everything celebrated, practiced, and observed by

Christians at the "Yule" season, or so- called "Christmas", was

appropriated from

 

Heathen/Pagan sources, i.e. the ancient Northern European

religion, in its various forms. This is a fact that any historian, of

even mediocre expertise, can discover by a brief study of the past.

This knowledge, although quite common

 

amongst scholars, is generally concealed from the Christian populace.

 

 

Yule or the Winter Solstice is possibly the most important

celebration of the year for those who follow the ancient religion of

Asátrú. It begins on

 

the Mother Night (Dec. 20th) and ends on the 12th Night (Dec.

31st). During these twelve sacred days, Asátrúar around Vinland,

Europe, or wherever they find themselves, celebrate this special time

of the year. Feasting, giving of the

 

gift, tree decorating, visiting with relatives and close friends,

religious observances and more- are all part of this magical twelve day

period, and

 

have been observed by millions of our ancestors for tens of

thousands of years-long before the appearance of the Judiac-based

religion of Christianity.

 

 

Why is Yule so important?

 

 

It is an end... and a beginning. Like life itself. The old year

ends... the new year begins, and it is the official beginning of

Winter. A time to take

 

stock of the past, and plan for the future. Some feel that the 12

days of Yule can be viewed as microcosms of the previous 12 months,

giving the

 

practitioner a chance to review and meditate upon the current year

that's about to end.

 

In this way, the Trú man or woman can also us this time to lay

plans for the coming year. Hence, the first day of 12 days of Yule,

gives us a chance to review January or "Snowmoon", of the current year,

and also lay plans for the up coming month. This proceeds through the

12 days of Yule and through the 12 months as well, in miniature, until

the last of the 12 days of Yule, which

 

is also the last day of the month of Yule and the last day of the

year in question. A magical time to end old things and begin anew!

 

 

This is the time of the Winter Solstice... An astronomical event

that has been preceded by a period of lengthening nights and short,

dark days. A time of deep darkness and cold. In fact, on the actual day

of the Winter Solstice,

 

there are fewer minutes of daylight than on any other day of the

year. A very dark time for our ancestors, and dim light- exactly the

opposite of Mid Summer Festival. However, on the day after the 21st

(Winter Solstice), the daylight

 

begins to lengthen, only by seconds at first, but now the Sun, the

giver of life, is returning and it is a time for celebration! It is a

testimony to

 

our ancestors intelligence and awareness that they were able to

pinpoint this particular occurrence, and realize the significance of

this time of year. You can't grow crops in the dark, shortened days of

winter... you can't plant

 

seeds in the frozen ground. All of this was cause for tremendous

celebration when the Winter's back was finally broken, and the warm,

green days of Spring lay just ahead!

 

 

It was also a time for contact with those who had gone before. With

the dead ancestors of the celebrant. Maybe its the extreme length of

darkness each night, maybe it's the cold, death- like grip of Winter.

Maybe its the fact that

 

"death" reins supreme at this time of year, as all the plants of

summer have either died or become dormant. Whatever the reason, those

who follow the old religion know, from personal experience, that is a

time of magic, and contact with

 

the spirits of our ancestors and even the gods and goddesses

themselves. It is a good time to cast the runes for the coming year. It

is an end, like the end of life. And it is at the same time a

beginning, like birth. A magical time!

 

 

Why do we feast so much at this time of year?

 

 

The idea of the Yule Feast is to celebrate the return of light and

warmth is obvious... but there is more. Before canned or frozen food...

before Super Markets... before 5,000 acre farms... long before all of

this modern technology, our ancestors had to be very careful, or they

just might succumb to the cold and dark of Winter. Food had to be

harvested, in one way or another.

 

Then it had to be stored. The Folk had to plan carefully for the

whole winter. Sure, they might get a deer or elk, during a Winter hunt,

but they needed other provisions as well, and a perilous Winter hunt

wasn't always a guaranteed

 

source of food. Winter was a difficult time for our ancestors, and

often they did not survive the dark and cold. So why the feast?

Simple... if they

 

had survived to the Winter Solstice, then they would likely make

it till spring... it was the halfway point of the cold and the dark,

and the

 

beginning of the returning light and warmth- they had crossed a

major milestone of the year! Now the remaining provisions were easier

to ration out for the rest of the winter. Whereas they might have been

holding back on the consumption of

 

their precious food stores before the Yuletide, now it was a time to

celebrate with a Feast!

 

 

Why do most Asátrúar eat pork or ham at the Yule Feast?

 

 

Originally this was a time to sacrifice to the god Frey for a

bountiful Spring and eventual harvest. Our ancient ancestors did this

by ritually

 

killing a wild boar. This was one of the main aspects of the Mid-Winter

Festival in

 

Northern Europe. Its cooked flesh was then eaten at a great Feast.

This activity was often combined with the burning of a giant Sunwheel,

which was then rolled down a hill, to entice Sunna to return. This

Pagan practice continued, in Europe, well into the 12th century C.E.

When the wild boar began to vanish, they were replaced with domestic

pigs, of which there was ample supply.

 

Eventually this was replaced by a token offering of a Boar's Head, and

apple or an

 

orange in it's mouth. To this day, this ancient heathen tradition is

still observed

 

by many Christians at "Christmas". Many colleges in Europe present

the "boars head" at the Yule Feast, as a long standing tradition. Today

most

 

Asátrúar will simply have a slice of ham at the Yule Feast, but in

doing so they are keeping alive a tradition that goes back for many

thousands of years... when to chew on a juicy piece of pork, was to

ensure that Nature would become

 

bountiful once again.

 

 

Why do we give gifts at this time of year?

 

 

Besides the obvious feelings of joy and jubilation at the impending

return of light and warmth... a great gift granted by Sunna herself,

the Giver of

 

Life to us all... it was a time to give to any Kin who might be

short on provisions. Who might not have enough to survive the rest of

the winter.

 

Many were not always successful at the hunt or the harvest, while

others did well. It

 

was common to share your provisions with your blood relatives and

"tried friends",

 

at this time of the year... especially if they came up short on

supplies. It

 

was a matter of survival. Obviously, you would not give gifts to an

enemy or to outright strangers. That kind of action might endanger the

future of your tribe. It was a time to share, and thereby ensure the

future of your

 

clan. This was often the food given and used at the Feast. Another

reason to

 

Feast! Over time, the items given as gifts, increased and began to

include

 

things other than food. In ancient, Pagan Rome, gift giving became

extremely elaborate and superstitious at the Winter Solstice. So much

so, that failure to give certain gifts of quality and substance, could

mean bad luck in the coming

 

year! After the arrival of the "Christ", the early Christians

tried desperately t suppress the giving of gifts at the Yuletide,

because of its clearly Pagan origins. However its appeal was too great,

and they failed repeatedly to stamp out this Heathen tradition.

Finally, as they always do, they gave up and absorbed it into their

religion... made it their own. Twisted it around until

 

it no longer appeared to be Pagan. So next time you see all those

people, lined up at the check-out counter of the local department

store... their arms filled with gifts, chocolates, wrapping paper and

more... a week before Yule... remember- they are participating in an

ancient Pagan tradition!

 

 

This was also a time to share something with the "land spirits".

Beings who could often effect the success or failure of the tribe...

especially where

 

crops and domesticated animals were concerned. Unlike the gods and

goddesses of Asgard, these "lesser" deities, or spirits, were strictly

known on a "regional" or tribal basis. Each tribe or clan were aware of

the land spirits of their particular area and knew of their abilities

or attributes. The giving of gifts, in the form of food, to the land

spirits, at this time of the year, was to assure a bountiful harvest

next fall... to ensure the continued good luck of the clan. This

practice was quite common throughout all ancient

 

civilizations, and is till practiced today in many areas of the world.

In modern-day Asátrú

 

it is common for Asátrúar to offer nuts, fruits, cookies, mead and

other treats who occupy the land where they live. This is another

example of gift giving at Yuletide.

 

 

Why do we decorate a Yule Tree in our house?

 

 

The decorating of the Yule Tree, is also related to the land or

"tree" sprits. The purpose was to assure that the spirits that attached

themselves

 

to the trees, would not leave because of the cold and dark of winter.

The sacred

 

Oak, Elm, or Ash were probably the original trees for Yule

decorating. But, with the appearance of Christianity, this activity was

greatly discouraged by the Christian monks & missionaries. They

soon realized that they would not be

 

able to stem this ancient tradition, so they changed it, and

convinced our ancestors to decorate an evergreen tree instead of the

Oak, Ash, or Elm. This tactic worked but it's success was limited. As

we know from the ancient

 

Sagas and Eddas of our Folk, the evergreen tree is Sunna's promise

that she will return, that summer will come again. All the other trees

have lost their

 

leaves and appear to be dead... but not the evergreen! At this point in

our history,

 

many of our ancestors switched from the Oak, Ash, or Elm to the

evergreen,

 

as the main tree of the Yule season. By decorating that "always green"

tree,

 

our ancestors assured that the spirits associated with it would not

succumb to the winter's spell and abandon the trees, which could mean

bad luck for the clan. By decorating the trees with bits of food,

colored cloth, carved runes, small statues of the gods, etc., our

ancestors soothed the feelings

 

of the tree spirits, made the trees more attractive, and assured

the spirits continued presence. Thus the Christian Monk's attempt to

remove a Pagan tradition, backfired, and it continues to this day.

 

 

With the dominance of Christianity in Northern Europe, our Heathen

Ancestors

 

were eventually forced "underground" or indoors... and they brought

their tree with them. Of course, as we all know, this tradition was

eventually adopted by the Church, after they realized that they could

not rid the population of

 

this "disgusting pagan habit". Only then did they adopt it as

their own, and thereby set the stage for duping our ancestors into

becoming part of their Judaic-based religion.

 

 

What about Santa Claus, Father Christmas, and Old Man Winter?

 

 

In ancient times our ancestors found it difficult to deal with the

harsh Winter season... obviously without the modern comforts we all

enjoy. A mild

 

winter was always something they longed for, and they often tried

to appease the forces of Nature with various religious activities. The

pagan Vikings would dress someone up to represent Old Man Winter, and

then make him as welcome as

 

possible. The British eventually adopted this custom, and after the

advent of Christianity,

 

called him Old Father Christmas. He was welcomed into each

household to enjoy all the Feasting and festivities. He was piled with

mead and food to try and keep him in a good mood. It was hoped that

these activities would make

 

for a mild winter and a good spring. Much later, this ancient

heathen figure, was confused with Santa Claus, and today most think of

them as one and the same. Actually "Santa Claus", as he is most

commonly known, started out as a Christian Monk who died in 345 C.E.,

and who eventually gained sainthood.

 

Needless to say, he eventually became more popular than "the Christ",

and

 

was burned in effigy by the French Clergy in the middle part of the

20th century! Finally in 1969 C.E. Pope Paul VI demoted him to

non-saint status!

 

Today the fat, jolly, red suited Old Man is actually an invention

of the Coca-Cola Company. Strange, but true! In 1931, Coca-Cola hired

an artist to redesign Santa Claus for their winter advertising

campaign. Red and white are the official colors of Coca-Cola, hence the

Old Man's new outfit. Since that time, the look of Santa Claus has been

carved in stone. Years ago Father Christmas

 

or Old Man Winter, would appear in green, purple, blue,

blue-black, or even brown, often trimmed with brown, black or white

furs. Sometimes even covered head to toe in fur or skins. But no more!

True to Corporate America's goals, now all see him as the fat, jolly

man in the red suit, with lots of goodies from everyone.

 

 

Before Clement Moore wrote his famous poem in 1822, Father

Christmas traveled by food or by giant white horse (Odin's horse

Sleipnir?). But

 

Moore, a very learned man and professor of Literature, changed all of

that forever when he

 

introduced the idea of reindeer pulling Santa's sleigh. This was

not done on a casual whim, but came from an ancient Finish legend about

"Old Man Winter". The ancient Finns believed that Old Man Winter drove

the reindeer down

 

the mountains, into the lowlands each year with the coming of the

cold (food source?). Moore grafted part of this Finnish legend onto

existing Father Christmas. Why eight reindeer? Some scholars have

speculated that the professor was

 

having some fun with the general populace by perking up his tale with a

scholarly

 

reference to Odin, who rides an eight legged horse. As well known

author, Desmond Mooris has stated: "Odin's horse carried the god around

when, clad in a large cloak and hat, he set out to meet his people,

dispensing rewards and

 

punishments as they were due. There are clearly elements there

suggesting that Odin was a precursor of the Father Christmas- Santa

Claus figure, and it may have amused Moore to incorporate at least on

Odin feature in his new

 

creation." So again we find that much of what we consider to be

strictly

 

Christian phenomenon... is again based in pagan reality.

 

 

Why do Christians celebrate the birth of Christ during the Yuletide?

 

 

In the fourth century C.E. Pope Julius I officially set the date of

Christ's birth to December 25th, after a brief investigation. The truth

is, no one

 

had the faintest idea as to the actual date of his birth... they

weren't even certain about the year! All of which lead to endless

arguments amongst their faithful. Today scholars know on thing for

certain- the Christ was not born in the year 0, on December 25th! That

they all agree on. Many had speculated as to the exact date of birth of

this religious figure. Some say they have proof that he was born in

May... others have suggested April. Still others have championed

January... March... and September. In reality no one knows- and

 

they never will! But certain historical evidence has shown that he

definitely was not born during the Yule Festival.

 

 

So why December 25th? Again... it was that old "if you can't beat

them, then convert them by deceiving them." By placing the birth of

their Christ in the middle of the ancient Mid-Winter heathen festival,

the church hoped to

 

convert, and thereby absorb the Pagans into their belief system.

It was a limited success. For although the Yuletide became "Christmas",

all the Pagan traditions stayed on. and the Nativity ended up taking a

back seat to the rest. The

 

ancient heathen practices never died out, but lingered on right up

to the present time- lucky for us! And the traditions of Feasting,

drinking,

 

dancing, gift-giving, the lighting of fires, the holding of

parties and general merriment and revelry... stayed on in their mostly

original Pagan forms, with very little change. Over the years the

church tried to stamp out the celebration

 

of Christmas or Yule, and even made it illegal to observe it, at

various times in history. It was officially abolished in England on the

3rd of June, 1647 C.E.! The puritans couldn't stand all the Pagan

revelry, obviously having to do wit the birth of their "Christ", and so

they too tried to stamp it

 

out! When that failed, they tried to make the whole Christmas idea

non-appealing and eventually illegal! However, this attempt to remove

the Mid-Winter Festival from the hearts of people failed. And there

were even riots against

 

this law. It got absurd to the point where the mayors of cities,

were forced by law, to go out an burn all Yule decorations they found!

But the law could not remove it and it went underground, and was

practiced behind closed doors. In 1660 the puritans were ousted and the

Festival was returned to its former glory. The same thing happened in

what would soon be the United States of America, and the observance of

"Christmas" was banned, by law, between 1659

 

and 1681 C.E.. Again, this attempt to suppress the celebration of the

return of the light and warmth of the Sun -failed!

 

 

The Christian attempt to change, by deception, the "rebirth of the

Sun God" into the "birth of the Son of God", was never complete. And it

goes to prove that it is ingrained so deeply in the hearts and spirits

of the people, that is derived from their natural history, their

ancestral faiths will

 

always prevail!

 

 

Today...

 

 

Today the Yule Festival is observed by Asátrúar and Odinists with much

 

Feasting and revelry. Blot ( symbolic ritual sacrifice) is

traditionally performed

 

to one of several gods. Some believe Thor is the god of the

Yuletide... some think Balder, as the god of light... Some feel that

Odin is the original Old Man of Winter, and therefore the god of Yule.

We know for certain that Frey was honored at this time of year by our

Heathen ancestors. But whoever you choose as the god of the Mid-Winter

Festival- observe it well. For it is

 

certainly one of the most potent times of the year. Feasting,

giving of gifts, tree decorating, visiting with relatives and close

friends, religious

 

observances and more... fill the twelve days of Yule with as many

special

 

activities as you can. Rediscover the joy and anticipation of this

wonderful time of year. Watch the Christians around you, as they go

about, unknowingly performing ancient pagan rites... and celebrate!

Realize that the excitement that

 

everyone feels at this time of the year has nothing, whatsoever to do

with the birth

 

of the Son of God... but rather, has everything to do with the rebirth

of the SUN GOD!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SIHA wrote:

 

 

Hello dear list members,

 

Season's greetings and Merry Christmas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--

signature

Sally Spencer

Enlightened Living Services

http://www.Devi3.byregion.net

[Guest guest]

Dear Professor & all list members,

 

Season’s greetings and best wishes

for the new year. Also belated birthday congratulations to SAMVA and the

tireless, Thor, Jorge, and others.

 

Jonathan

 

 

 

 

 

SIHA [siha]

Sunday, December 12, 2004

4:41 AM

satva

Cc: SAMVA

[satva] GREETINGS

 

 

 

Hello dear list members,

 

Season's greetings and Merry Christmas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Post

message: satva

Subscribe: satva-

Un: satva-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear List Members,

 

Merry Christmas to all of you.

 

Jorge

 

-----Original

Message-----

Sally Spencer

[sally234]

domingo, 12 de Dezembro de

2004 19:37

SAMVA ; Satva

Re: GREETINGS

 

Hello Dear Professor,

 

And to you and the members as well.

 

I thought I would include an article that speaks to the origins of the

Christian holidays being celebrated around the Winter Sostice.

 

Aloha,

 

Sally

 

 

 

 

Season's greetings and Merry Christmas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Christmas and Yule, Are

They the Same?

By Godhi Adam

Wycoff

 

 

From the below article in short:

 

" The trees were decorated to insure the tree spirits stayed instead of

leaving because of the cold winter. By decorating the trees with bits of

food, colored cloth, carved runes, small statues of the gods, etc., our

ancestors soothed the feelings

of the tree spirits, made the trees more attractive, and assured the spirits

continued presence.

 

Gifts were given in case friends or family didn't have enough provisions for

the winter. Exceptional gifts were given for good luck.

A feast was had to celebrate the fact that they made it this far through the

winter.

 

A boar was killed to sacrifice in order to have a good spring. Today we have

the boar's head with an apple in it's mouth.

 

Father Christmas, was Old Man Winter, and to give us a gentle winter he was

decorated and treated well to ensure an easy winter. Actually " Santa

Claus " , as he is most commonly known, started out as a Christian Monk

who died in 345 C.E., and who eventually gained sainthood.

Today the fat, jolly, red suited Old Man is actually an invention of the

Coca-Cola Company.

 

 

Before Clement Moore wrote his famous poem in 1822, Father Christmas traveled

by food or by giant white horse (Odin's horse Sleipnir?). But

Moore, a very learned man and professor of Literature, changed all of that

forever when he

introduced the idea of reindeer pulling Santa's sleigh. This was not done on

a casual whim, but came from an ancient Finish legend about " Old Man

Winter " . The ancient Finns believed that Old Man Winter drove the

reindeer down

the mountains, into the lowlands each year with the coming of the cold (food

source?). Moore grafted part of this Finnish legend onto existing Father

Christmas. Why eight reindeer? Some scholars have speculated that the

professor was

having some fun with the general populace by perking up his tale with a

scholarly

reference to Odin, who rides an eight legged horse.

 

In the fourth century C.E. Pope Julius I officially set the date of Christ's

birth to December 25th, after a brief investigation. The truth is, no one

had the faintest idea as to the actual date of his birth... they weren't even

certain about the year! "

 

Why do we celebrate a seemingly Christian holiday, " Christmas " or

" Yule " , in

the religion of Asátrú?

 

Let us begin by clarifying something... Except for the Nativity Scene and

Christmas Mass, everything celebrated, practiced, and observed by Christians

at the " Yule " season, or so- called " Christmas " , was

appropriated from

Heathen/Pagan sources, i.e. the ancient Northern European religion, in its

various forms. This is a fact that any historian, of even mediocre expertise,

can discover by a brief study of the past. This knowledge, although quite

common

amongst scholars, is generally concealed from the Christian populace.

 

Yule or the Winter Solstice is possibly the most important celebration of the

year for those who follow the ancient religion of Asátrú. It begins on

the Mother Night (Dec. 20th) and ends on the 12th Night (Dec. 31st). During

these twelve sacred days, Asátrúar around Vinland, Europe, or wherever they

find themselves, celebrate this special time of the year. Feasting, giving of

the

gift, tree decorating, visiting with relatives and close friends, religious

observances and more- are all part of this magical twelve day period, and

have been observed by millions of our ancestors for tens of thousands of

years-long before the appearance of the Judiac-based religion of

Christianity.

 

Why is Yule so important?

 

It is an end... and a beginning. Like life itself. The old year ends... the

new year begins, and it is the official beginning of Winter. A time to take

stock of the past, and plan for the future. Some feel that the 12 days of

Yule can be viewed as microcosms of the previous 12 months, giving the

practitioner a chance to review and meditate upon the current year that's

about to end.

In this way, the Trú man or woman can also us this time to lay plans for the

coming year. Hence, the first day of 12 days of Yule, gives us a chance to

review January or " Snowmoon " , of the current year, and also lay

plans for the up coming month. This proceeds through the 12 days of Yule and

through the 12 months as well, in miniature, until the last of the 12 days of

Yule, which

is also the last day of the month of Yule and the last day of the year in

question. A magical time to end old things and begin anew!

 

This is the time of the Winter Solstice... An astronomical event that has

been preceded by a period of lengthening nights and short, dark days. A time

of deep darkness and cold. In fact, on the actual day of the Winter Solstice,

 

there are fewer minutes of daylight than on any other day of the year. A very

dark time for our ancestors, and dim light- exactly the opposite of Mid

Summer Festival. However, on the day after the 21st (Winter Solstice), the

daylight

begins to lengthen, only by seconds at first, but now the Sun, the giver of

life, is returning and it is a time for celebration! It is a testimony to

our ancestors intelligence and awareness that they were able to pinpoint this

particular occurrence, and realize the significance of this time of year. You

can't grow crops in the dark, shortened days of winter... you can't plant

seeds in the frozen ground. All of this was cause for tremendous celebration

when the Winter's back was finally broken, and the warm, green days of Spring

lay just ahead!

 

It was also a time for contact with those who had gone before. With the dead

ancestors of the celebrant. Maybe its the extreme length of darkness each

night, maybe it's the cold, death- like grip of Winter. Maybe its the fact

that

" death " reins supreme at this time of year, as all the plants of

summer have either died or become dormant. Whatever the reason, those who

follow the old religion know, from personal experience, that is a time of

magic, and contact with

the spirits of our ancestors and even the gods and goddesses themselves. It

is a good time to cast the runes for the coming year. It is an end, like the

end of life. And it is at the same time a beginning, like birth. A magical

time!

 

Why do we feast so much at this time of year?

 

The idea of the Yule Feast is to celebrate the return of light and warmth is

obvious... but there is more. Before canned or frozen food... before Super

Markets... before 5,000 acre farms... long before all of this modern

technology, our ancestors had to be very careful, or they just might succumb

to the cold and dark of Winter. Food had to be harvested, in one way or

another.

Then it had to be stored. The Folk had to plan carefully for the whole

winter. Sure, they might get a deer or elk, during a Winter hunt, but they

needed other provisions as well, and a perilous Winter hunt wasn't always a

guaranteed

source of food. Winter was a difficult time for our ancestors, and often they

did not survive the dark and cold. So why the feast? Simple... if they

had survived to the Winter Solstice, then they would likely make it till

spring... it was the halfway point of the cold and the dark, and the

beginning of the returning light and warmth- they had crossed a major

milestone of the year! Now the remaining provisions were easier to ration out

for the rest of the winter. Whereas they might have been holding back on the

consumption of

their precious food stores before the Yuletide, now it was a time to

celebrate with a Feast!

 

Why do most Asátrúar eat pork or ham at the Yule Feast?

 

Originally this was a time to sacrifice to the god Frey for a bountiful

Spring and eventual harvest. Our ancient ancestors did this by ritually

killing a wild boar. This was one of the main aspects of the Mid-Winter

Festival in

Northern Europe. Its cooked flesh was then eaten at a great Feast. This

activity was often combined with the burning of a giant Sunwheel, which was

then rolled down a hill, to entice Sunna to return. This Pagan practice

continued, in Europe, well into the 12th century C.E. When the wild boar

began to vanish, they were replaced with domestic pigs, of which there was

ample supply.

Eventually this was replaced by a token offering of a Boar's Head, and apple

or an

orange in it's mouth. To this day, this ancient heathen tradition is still observed

 

by many Christians at " Christmas " . Many colleges in Europe present

the " boars head " at the Yule Feast, as a long standing tradition.

Today most

Asátrúar will simply have a slice of ham at the Yule Feast, but in doing so

they are keeping alive a tradition that goes back for many thousands of

years... when to chew on a juicy piece of pork, was to ensure that Nature

would become

bountiful once again.

 

Why do we give gifts at this time of year?

 

Besides the obvious feelings of joy and jubilation at the impending return of

light and warmth... a great gift granted by Sunna herself, the Giver of

Life to us all... it was a time to give to any Kin who might be short on

provisions. Who might not have enough to survive the rest of the winter.

Many were not always successful at the hunt or the harvest, while others did

well. It

was common to share your provisions with your blood relatives and " tried

friends " ,

at this time of the year... especially if they came up short on supplies. It

was a matter of survival. Obviously, you would not give gifts to an enemy or

to outright strangers. That kind of action might endanger the future of your

tribe. It was a time to share, and thereby ensure the future of your

clan. This was often the food given and used at the Feast. Another reason to

Feast! Over time, the items given as gifts, increased and began to include

things other than food. In ancient, Pagan Rome, gift giving became extremely

elaborate and superstitious at the Winter Solstice. So much so, that failure

to give certain gifts of quality and substance, could mean bad luck in the

coming

year! After the arrival of the " Christ " , the early Christians tried

desperately t suppress the giving of gifts at the Yuletide, because of its

clearly Pagan origins. However its appeal was too great, and they failed

repeatedly to stamp out this Heathen tradition. Finally, as they always do,

they gave up and absorbed it into their religion... made it their own.

Twisted it around until

it no longer appeared to be Pagan. So next time you see all those people,

lined up at the check-out counter of the local department store... their arms

filled with gifts, chocolates, wrapping paper and more... a week before

Yule... remember- they are participating in an ancient Pagan tradition!

 

This was also a time to share something with the " land spirits " .

Beings who could often effect the success or failure of the tribe...

especially where

crops and domesticated animals were concerned. Unlike the gods and goddesses

of Asgard, these " lesser " deities, or spirits, were strictly known

on a " regional " or tribal basis. Each tribe or clan were aware of

the land spirits of their particular area and knew of their abilities or

attributes. The giving of gifts, in the form of food, to the land spirits, at

this time of the year, was to assure a bountiful harvest next fall... to

ensure the continued good luck of the clan. This practice was quite common

throughout all ancient

civilizations, and is till practiced today in many areas of the world. In

modern-day Asátrú

it is common for Asátrúar to offer nuts, fruits, cookies, mead and other

treats who occupy the land where they live. This is another example of gift

giving at Yuletide.

 

Why do we decorate a Yule Tree in our house?

 

The decorating of the Yule Tree, is also related to the land or

" tree " sprits. The purpose was to assure that the spirits that

attached themselves

to the trees, would not leave because of the cold and dark of winter. The

sacred

Oak, Elm, or Ash were probably the original trees for Yule decorating. But,

with the appearance of Christianity, this activity was greatly discouraged by

the Christian monks & missionaries. They soon realized that they would

not be

able to stem this ancient tradition, so they changed it, and convinced our

ancestors to decorate an evergreen tree instead of the Oak, Ash, or Elm. This

tactic worked but it's success was limited. As we know from the ancient

Sagas and Eddas of our Folk, the evergreen tree is Sunna's promise that she

will return, that summer will come again. All the other trees have lost their

 

leaves and appear to be dead... but not the evergreen! At this point in our

history,

many of our ancestors switched from the Oak, Ash, or Elm to the evergreen,

as the main tree of the Yule season. By decorating that " always

green " tree,

our ancestors assured that the spirits associated with it would not succumb

to the winter's spell and abandon the trees, which could mean bad luck for

the clan. By decorating the trees with bits of food, colored cloth, carved

runes, small statues of the gods, etc., our ancestors soothed the feelings

of the tree spirits, made the trees more attractive, and assured the spirits

continued presence. Thus the Christian Monk's attempt to remove a Pagan

tradition, backfired, and it continues to this day.

 

With the dominance of Christianity in Northern Europe, our Heathen Ancestors

were eventually forced " underground " or indoors... and they brought

their tree with them. Of course, as we all know, this tradition was

eventually adopted by the Church, after they realized that they could not rid

the population of

this " disgusting pagan habit " . Only then did they adopt it as their

own, and thereby set the stage for duping our ancestors into becoming part of

their Judaic-based religion.

 

What about Santa Claus, Father Christmas, and Old Man Winter?

 

In ancient times our ancestors found it difficult to deal with the harsh

Winter season... obviously without the modern comforts we all enjoy. A mild

winter was always something they longed for, and they often tried to appease

the forces of Nature with various religious activities. The pagan Vikings

would dress someone up to represent Old Man Winter, and then make him as

welcome as

possible. The British eventually adopted this custom, and after the advent of

Christianity,

called him Old Father Christmas. He was welcomed into each household to enjoy

all the Feasting and festivities. He was piled with mead and food to try and

keep him in a good mood. It was hoped that these activities would make

for a mild winter and a good spring. Much later, this ancient heathen figure,

was confused with Santa Claus, and today most think of them as one and the

same. Actually " Santa Claus " , as he is most commonly known, started

out as a Christian Monk who died in 345 C.E., and who eventually gained

sainthood.

Needless to say, he eventually became more popular than " the

Christ " , and

was burned in effigy by the French Clergy in the middle part of the 20th

century! Finally in 1969 C.E. Pope Paul VI demoted him to non-saint status!

Today the fat, jolly, red suited Old Man is actually an invention of the

Coca-Cola Company. Strange, but true! In 1931, Coca-Cola hired an artist to

redesign Santa Claus for their winter advertising campaign. Red and white are

the official colors of Coca-Cola, hence the Old Man's new outfit. Since that

time, the look of Santa Claus has been carved in stone. Years ago Father

Christmas

or Old Man Winter, would appear in green, purple, blue, blue-black, or even

brown, often trimmed with brown, black or white furs. Sometimes even covered

head to toe in fur or skins. But no more! True to Corporate America's goals,

now all see him as the fat, jolly man in the red suit, with lots of goodies

from everyone.

 

Before Clement Moore wrote his famous poem in 1822, Father Christmas traveled

by food or by giant white horse (Odin's horse Sleipnir?). But

Moore, a very learned man and professor of Literature, changed all of that

forever when he

introduced the idea of reindeer pulling Santa's sleigh. This was not done on

a casual whim, but came from an ancient Finish legend about " Old Man

Winter " . The ancient Finns believed that Old Man Winter drove the

reindeer down

the mountains, into the lowlands each year with the coming of the cold (food

source?). Moore grafted part of this Finnish legend onto existing Father

Christmas. Why eight reindeer? Some scholars have speculated that the

professor was

having some fun with the general populace by perking up his tale with a

scholarly

reference to Odin, who rides an eight legged horse. As well known author,

Desmond Mooris has stated: " Odin's horse carried the god around when,

clad in a large cloak and hat, he set out to meet his people, dispensing

rewards and

punishments as they were due. There are clearly elements there suggesting

that Odin was a precursor of the Father Christmas- Santa Claus figure, and it

may have amused Moore to incorporate at least on Odin feature in his new

creation. " So again we find that much of what we consider to be strictly

 

Christian phenomenon... is again based in pagan reality.

 

Why do Christians celebrate the birth of Christ during the Yuletide?

 

In the fourth century C.E. Pope Julius I officially set the date of Christ's

birth to December 25th, after a brief investigation. The truth is, no one

had the faintest idea as to the actual date of his birth... they weren't even

certain about the year! All of which lead to endless arguments amongst their

faithful. Today scholars know on thing for certain- the Christ was not born

in the year 0, on December 25th! That they all agree on. Many had speculated

as to the exact date of birth of this religious figure. Some say they have

proof that he was born in May... others have suggested April. Still others

have championed January... March... and September. In reality no one knows-

and

they never will! But certain historical evidence has shown that he definitely

was not born during the Yule Festival.

 

So why December 25th? Again... it was that old " if you can't beat them,

then convert them by deceiving them. " By placing the birth of their

Christ in the middle of the ancient Mid-Winter heathen festival, the church

hoped to

convert, and thereby absorb the Pagans into their belief system. It was a

limited success. For although the Yuletide became " Christmas " , all

the Pagan traditions stayed on. and the Nativity ended up taking a back seat

to the rest. The

ancient heathen practices never died out, but lingered on right up to the

present time- lucky for us! And the traditions of Feasting, drinking,

dancing, gift-giving, the lighting of fires, the holding of parties and

general merriment and revelry... stayed on in their mostly original Pagan

forms, with very little change. Over the years the church tried to stamp out

the celebration

of Christmas or Yule, and even made it illegal to observe it, at various

times in history. It was officially abolished in England on the 3rd of June,

1647 C.E.! The puritans couldn't stand all the Pagan revelry, obviously

having to do wit the birth of their " Christ " , and so they too tried

to stamp it

out! When that failed, they tried to make the whole Christmas idea

non-appealing and eventually illegal! However, this attempt to remove the

Mid-Winter Festival from the hearts of people failed. And there were even riots

against

this law. It got absurd to the point where the mayors of cities, were forced

by law, to go out an burn all Yule decorations they found! But the law could

not remove it and it went underground, and was practiced behind closed doors.

In 1660 the puritans were ousted and the Festival was returned to its former

glory. The same thing happened in what would soon be the United States of

America, and the observance of " Christmas " was banned, by law,

between 1659

and 1681 C.E.. Again, this attempt to suppress the celebration of the return

of the light and warmth of the Sun -failed!

 

The Christian attempt to change, by deception, the " rebirth of the Sun

God " into the " birth of the Son of God " , was never complete.

And it goes to prove that it is ingrained so deeply in the hearts and spirits

of the people, that is derived from their natural history, their ancestral

faiths will

always prevail!

 

Today...

 

Today the Yule Festival is observed by Asátrúar and Odinists with much

Feasting and revelry. Blot ( symbolic ritual sacrifice) is traditionally

performed

to one of several gods. Some believe Thor is the god of the Yuletide... some

think Balder, as the god of light... Some feel that Odin is the original Old

Man of Winter, and therefore the god of Yule. We know for certain that Frey

was honored at this time of year by our Heathen ancestors. But whoever you

choose as the god of the Mid-Winter Festival- observe it well. For it is

certainly one of the most potent times of the year. Feasting, giving of

gifts, tree decorating, visiting with relatives and close friends, religious

observances and more... fill the twelve days of Yule with as many special

activities as you can. Rediscover the joy and anticipation of this wonderful

time of year. Watch the Christians around you, as they go about, unknowingly

performing ancient pagan rites... and celebrate! Realize that the excitement

that

everyone feels at this time of the year has nothing, whatsoever to do with

the birth

of the Son of God... but rather, has everything to do with the rebirth of the

SUN GOD!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SIHA wrote:

 

 

 

Hello dear list members,

 

Season's greetings and Merry Christmas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--

Sally Spencer

Enlightened Living Services

http://www.Devi3.byregion.net

[Guest guest]

thank you for the article Sally..

 

Very interesting indeed!

 

david Hawthorne

 

-

Sally Spencer

SAMVA ; Satva

Sunday, December 12, 2004 1:37 PM

Re: GREETINGS

Hello Dear Professor, And to you and the members as well.I thought I would include an article that speaks to the origins of the Christian holidays being celebrated around the Winter Sostice. Aloha, Sally

Season's greetings and Merry Christmas.

 

 

 

 

 

Christmas and Yule, Are They the Same?

By Godhi Adam Wycoff >From the below article in short: "The trees were decorated to insure the tree spirits stayed instead of leaving because of the cold winter. By decorating the trees with bits of food, colored cloth, carved runes, small statues of the gods, etc., our ancestors soothed the feelings of the tree spirits, made the trees more attractive, and assured the spirits continued presence. Gifts were given in case friends or family didn't have enough provisions for the winter. Exceptional gifts were given for good luck. A feast was had to celebrate the fact that they made it this far through the winter. A boar was killed to sacrifice in order to have a good spring. Today we have the boar's head with an apple in it's mouth. Father Christmas, was Old Man Winter, and to give us a gentle winter he was decorated and treated well to ensure an easy winter. Actually "Santa Claus", as he is most commonly known, started out as a Christian Monk who died in 345 C.E., and who eventually gained sainthood. Today the fat, jolly, red suited Old Man is actually an invention of the Coca-Cola Company. Before Clement Moore wrote his famous poem in 1822, Father Christmas traveled by food or by giant white horse (Odin's horse Sleipnir?). But Moore, a very learned man and professor of Literature, changed all of that forever when he introduced the idea of reindeer pulling Santa's sleigh. This was not done on a casual whim, but came from an ancient Finish legend about "Old Man Winter". The ancient Finns believed that Old Man Winter drove the reindeer down the mountains, into the lowlands each year with the coming of the cold (food source?). Moore grafted part of this Finnish legend onto existing Father Christmas. Why eight reindeer? Some scholars have speculated that the professor was having some fun with the general populace by perking up his tale with a scholarly reference to Odin, who rides an eight legged horse. In the fourth century C.E. Pope Julius I officially set the date of Christ's birth to December 25th, after a brief investigation. The truth is, no one had the faintest idea as to the actual date of his birth... they weren't even certain about the year! " Why do we celebrate a seemingly Christian holiday, "Christmas" or "Yule", in the religion of Asátrú? Let us begin by clarifying something... Except for the Nativity Scene and Christmas Mass, everything celebrated, practiced, and observed by Christians at the "Yule" season, or so- called "Christmas", was appropriated from Heathen/Pagan sources, i.e. the ancient Northern European religion, in its various forms. This is a fact that any historian, of even mediocre expertise, can discover by a brief study of the past. This knowledge, although quite common amongst scholars, is generally concealed from the Christian populace. Yule or the Winter Solstice is possibly the most important celebration of the year for those who follow the ancient religion of Asátrú. It begins on the Mother Night (Dec. 20th) and ends on the 12th Night (Dec. 31st). During these twelve sacred days, Asátrúar around Vinland, Europe, or wherever they find themselves, celebrate this special time of the year. Feasting, giving of the gift, tree decorating, visiting with relatives and close friends, religious observances and more- are all part of this magical twelve day period, and have been observed by millions of our ancestors for tens of thousands of years-long before the appearance of the Judiac-based religion of Christianity. Why is Yule so important? It is an end... and a beginning. Like life itself. The old year ends... the new year begins, and it is the official beginning of Winter. A time to take stock of the past, and plan for the future. Some feel that the 12 days of Yule can be viewed as microcosms of the previous 12 months, giving the practitioner a chance to review and meditate upon the current year that's about to end. In this way, the Trú man or woman can also us this time to lay plans for the coming year. Hence, the first day of 12 days of Yule, gives us a chance to review January or "Snowmoon", of the current year, and also lay plans for the up coming month. This proceeds through the 12 days of Yule and through the 12 months as well, in miniature, until the last of the 12 days of Yule, which is also the last day of the month of Yule and the last day of the year in question. A magical time to end old things and begin anew! This is the time of the Winter Solstice... An astronomical event that has been preceded by a period of lengthening nights and short, dark days. A time of deep darkness and cold. In fact, on the actual day of the Winter Solstice, there are fewer minutes of daylight than on any other day of the year. A very dark time for our ancestors, and dim light- exactly the opposite of Mid Summer Festival. However, on the day after the 21st (Winter Solstice), the daylight begins to lengthen, only by seconds at first, but now the Sun, the giver of life, is returning and it is a time for celebration! It is a testimony to our ancestors intelligence and awareness that they were able to pinpoint this particular occurrence, and realize the significance of this time of year. You can't grow crops in the dark, shortened days of winter... you can't plant seeds in the frozen ground. All of this was cause for tremendous celebration when the Winter's back was finally broken, and the warm, green days of Spring lay just ahead! It was also a time for contact with those who had gone before. With the dead ancestors of the celebrant. Maybe its the extreme length of darkness each night, maybe it's the cold, death- like grip of Winter. Maybe its the fact that "death" reins supreme at this time of year, as all the plants of summer have either died or become dormant. Whatever the reason, those who follow the old religion know, from personal experience, that is a time of magic, and contact with the spirits of our ancestors and even the gods and goddesses themselves. It is a good time to cast the runes for the coming year. It is an end, like the end of life. And it is at the same time a beginning, like birth. A magical time! Why do we feast so much at this time of year? The idea of the Yule Feast is to celebrate the return of light and warmth is obvious... but there is more. Before canned or frozen food... before Super Markets... before 5,000 acre farms... long before all of this modern technology, our ancestors had to be very careful, or they just might succumb to the cold and dark of Winter. Food had to be harvested, in one way or another. Then it had to be stored. The Folk had to plan carefully for the whole winter. Sure, they might get a deer or elk, during a Winter hunt, but they needed other provisions as well, and a perilous Winter hunt wasn't always a guaranteed source of food. Winter was a difficult time for our ancestors, and often they did not survive the dark and cold. So why the feast? Simple... if they had survived to the Winter Solstice, then they would likely make it till spring... it was the halfway point of the cold and the dark, and the beginning of the returning light and warmth- they had crossed a major milestone of the year! Now the remaining provisions were easier to ration out for the rest of the winter. Whereas they might have been holding back on the consumption of their precious food stores before the Yuletide, now it was a time to celebrate with a Feast! Why do most Asátrúar eat pork or ham at the Yule Feast? Originally this was a time to sacrifice to the god Frey for a bountiful Spring and eventual harvest. Our ancient ancestors did this by ritually killing a wild boar. This was one of the main aspects of the Mid-Winter Festival in Northern Europe. Its cooked flesh was then eaten at a great Feast. This activity was often combined with the burning of a giant Sunwheel, which was then rolled down a hill, to entice Sunna to return. This Pagan practice continued, in Europe, well into the 12th century C.E. When the wild boar began to vanish, they were replaced with domestic pigs, of which there was ample supply. Eventually this was replaced by a token offering of a Boar's Head, and apple or an orange in it's mouth. To this day, this ancient heathen tradition is still observed by many Christians at "Christmas". Many colleges in Europe present the "boars head" at the Yule Feast, as a long standing tradition. Today most Asátrúar will simply have a slice of ham at the Yule Feast, but in doing so they are keeping alive a tradition that goes back for many thousands of years... when to chew on a juicy piece of pork, was to ensure that Nature would become bountiful once again. Why do we give gifts at this time of year? Besides the obvious feelings of joy and jubilation at the impending return of light and warmth... a great gift granted by Sunna herself, the Giver of Life to us all... it was a time to give to any Kin who might be short on provisions. Who might not have enough to survive the rest of the winter. Many were not always successful at the hunt or the harvest, while others did well. It was common to share your provisions with your blood relatives and "tried friends", at this time of the year... especially if they came up short on supplies. It was a matter of survival. Obviously, you would not give gifts to an enemy or to outright strangers. That kind of action might endanger the future of your tribe. It was a time to share, and thereby ensure the future of your clan. This was often the food given and used at the Feast. Another reason to Feast! Over time, the items given as gifts, increased and began to include things other than food. In ancient, Pagan Rome, gift giving became extremely elaborate and superstitious at the Winter Solstice. So much so, that failure to give certain gifts of quality and substance, could mean bad luck in the coming year! After the arrival of the "Christ", the early Christians tried desperately t suppress the giving of gifts at the Yuletide, because of its clearly Pagan origins. However its appeal was too great, and they failed repeatedly to stamp out this Heathen tradition. Finally, as they always do, they gave up and absorbed it into their religion... made it their own. Twisted it around until it no longer appeared to be Pagan. So next time you see all those people, lined up at the check-out counter of the local department store... their arms filled with gifts, chocolates, wrapping paper and more... a week before Yule... remember- they are participating in an ancient Pagan tradition! This was also a time to share something with the "land spirits". Beings who could often effect the success or failure of the tribe... especially where crops and domesticated animals were concerned. Unlike the gods and goddesses of Asgard, these "lesser" deities, or spirits, were strictly known on a "regional" or tribal basis. Each tribe or clan were aware of the land spirits of their particular area and knew of their abilities or attributes. The giving of gifts, in the form of food, to the land spirits, at this time of the year, was to assure a bountiful harvest next fall... to ensure the continued good luck of the clan. This practice was quite common throughout all ancient civilizations, and is till practiced today in many areas of the world. In modern-day Asátrú it is common for Asátrúar to offer nuts, fruits, cookies, mead and other treats who occupy the land where they live. This is another example of gift giving at Yuletide. Why do we decorate a Yule Tree in our house? The decorating of the Yule Tree, is also related to the land or "tree" sprits. The purpose was to assure that the spirits that attached themselves to the trees, would not leave because of the cold and dark of winter. The sacred Oak, Elm, or Ash were probably the original trees for Yule decorating. But, with the appearance of Christianity, this activity was greatly discouraged by the Christian monks & missionaries. They soon realized that they would not be able to stem this ancient tradition, so they changed it, and convinced our ancestors to decorate an evergreen tree instead of the Oak, Ash, or Elm. This tactic worked but it's success was limited. As we know from the ancient Sagas and Eddas of our Folk, the evergreen tree is Sunna's promise that she will return, that summer will come again. All the other trees have lost their leaves and appear to be dead... but not the evergreen! At this point in our history, many of our ancestors switched from the Oak, Ash, or Elm to the evergreen, as the main tree of the Yule season. By decorating that "always green" tree, our ancestors assured that the spirits associated with it would not succumb to the winter's spell and abandon the trees, which could mean bad luck for the clan. By decorating the trees with bits of food, colored cloth, carved runes, small statues of the gods, etc., our ancestors soothed the feelings of the tree spirits, made the trees more attractive, and assured the spirits continued presence. Thus the Christian Monk's attempt to remove a Pagan tradition, backfired, and it continues to this day. With the dominance of Christianity in Northern Europe, our Heathen Ancestors were eventually forced "underground" or indoors... and they brought their tree with them. Of course, as we all know, this tradition was eventually adopted by the Church, after they realized that they could not rid the population of this "disgusting pagan habit". Only then did they adopt it as their own, and thereby set the stage for duping our ancestors into becoming part of their Judaic-based religion. What about Santa Claus, Father Christmas, and Old Man Winter? In ancient times our ancestors found it difficult to deal with the harsh Winter season... obviously without the modern comforts we all enjoy. A mild winter was always something they longed for, and they often tried to appease the forces of Nature with various religious activities. The pagan Vikings would dress someone up to represent Old Man Winter, and then make him as welcome as possible. The British eventually adopted this custom, and after the advent of Christianity, called him Old Father Christmas. He was welcomed into each household to enjoy all the Feasting and festivities. He was piled with mead and food to try and keep him in a good mood. It was hoped that these activities would make for a mild winter and a good spring. Much later, this ancient heathen figure, was confused with Santa Claus, and today most think of them as one and the same. Actually "Santa Claus", as he is most commonly known, started out as a Christian Monk who died in 345 C.E., and who eventually gained sainthood. Needless to say, he eventually became more popular than "the Christ", and was burned in effigy by the French Clergy in the middle part of the 20th century! Finally in 1969 C.E. Pope Paul VI demoted him to non-saint status! Today the fat, jolly, red suited Old Man is actually an invention of the Coca-Cola Company. Strange, but true! In 1931, Coca-Cola hired an artist to redesign Santa Claus for their winter advertising campaign. Red and white are the official colors of Coca-Cola, hence the Old Man's new outfit. Since that time, the look of Santa Claus has been carved in stone. Years ago Father Christmas or Old Man Winter, would appear in green, purple, blue, blue-black, or even brown, often trimmed with brown, black or white furs. Sometimes even covered head to toe in fur or skins. But no more! True to Corporate America's goals, now all see him as the fat, jolly man in the red suit, with lots of goodies from everyone. Before Clement Moore wrote his famous poem in 1822, Father Christmas traveled by food or by giant white horse (Odin's horse Sleipnir?). But Moore, a very learned man and professor of Literature, changed all of that forever when he introduced the idea of reindeer pulling Santa's sleigh. This was not done on a casual whim, but came from an ancient Finish legend about "Old Man Winter". The ancient Finns believed that Old Man Winter drove the reindeer down the mountains, into the lowlands each year with the coming of the cold (food source?). Moore grafted part of this Finnish legend onto existing Father Christmas. Why eight reindeer? Some scholars have speculated that the professor was having some fun with the general populace by perking up his tale with a scholarly reference to Odin, who rides an eight legged horse. As well known author, Desmond Mooris has stated: "Odin's horse carried the god around when, clad in a large cloak and hat, he set out to meet his people, dispensing rewards and punishments as they were due. There are clearly elements there suggesting that Odin was a precursor of the Father Christmas- Santa Claus figure, and it may have amused Moore to incorporate at least on Odin feature in his new creation." So again we find that much of what we consider to be strictly Christian phenomenon... is again based in pagan reality. Why do Christians celebrate the birth of Christ during the Yuletide? In the fourth century C.E. Pope Julius I officially set the date of Christ's birth to December 25th, after a brief investigation. The truth is, no one had the faintest idea as to the actual date of his birth... they weren't even certain about the year! All of which lead to endless arguments amongst their faithful. Today scholars know on thing for certain- the Christ was not born in the year 0, on December 25th! That they all agree on. Many had speculated as to the exact date of birth of this religious figure. Some say they have proof that he was born in May... others have suggested April. Still others have championed January... March... and September. In reality no one knows- and they never will! But certain historical evidence has shown that he definitely was not born during the Yule Festival. So why December 25th? Again... it was that old "if you can't beat them, then convert them by deceiving them." By placing the birth of their Christ in the middle of the ancient Mid-Winter heathen festival, the church hoped to convert, and thereby absorb the Pagans into their belief system. It was a limited success. For although the Yuletide became "Christmas", all the Pagan traditions stayed on. and the Nativity ended up taking a back seat to the rest. The ancient heathen practices never died out, but lingered on right up to the present time- lucky for us! And the traditions of Feasting, drinking, dancing, gift-giving, the lighting of fires, the holding of parties and general merriment and revelry... stayed on in their mostly original Pagan forms, with very little change. Over the years the church tried to stamp out the celebration of Christmas or Yule, and even made it illegal to observe it, at various times in history. It was officially abolished in England on the 3rd of June, 1647 C.E.! The puritans couldn't stand all the Pagan revelry, obviously having to do wit the birth of their "Christ", and so they too tried to stamp it out! When that failed, they tried to make the whole Christmas idea non-appealing and eventually illegal! However, this attempt to remove the Mid-Winter Festival from the hearts of people failed. And there were even riots against this law. It got absurd to the point where the mayors of cities, were forced by law, to go out an burn all Yule decorations they found! But the law could not remove it and it went underground, and was practiced behind closed doors. In 1660 the puritans were ousted and the Festival was returned to its former glory. The same thing happened in what would soon be the United States of America, and the observance of "Christmas" was banned, by law, between 1659 and 1681 C.E.. Again, this attempt to suppress the celebration of the return of the light and warmth of the Sun -failed! The Christian attempt to change, by deception, the "rebirth of the Sun God" into the "birth of the Son of God", was never complete. And it goes to prove that it is ingrained so deeply in the hearts and spirits of the people, that is derived from their natural history, their ancestral faiths will always prevail! Today... Today the Yule Festival is observed by Asátrúar and Odinists with much Feasting and revelry. Blot ( symbolic ritual sacrifice) is traditionally performed to one of several gods. Some believe Thor is the god of the Yuletide... some think Balder, as the god of light... Some feel that Odin is the original Old Man of Winter, and therefore the god of Yule. We know for certain that Frey was honored at this time of year by our Heathen ancestors. But whoever you choose as the god of the Mid-Winter Festival- observe it well. For it is certainly one of the most potent times of the year. Feasting, giving of gifts, tree decorating, visiting with relatives and close friends, religious observances and more... fill the twelve days of Yule with as many special activities as you can. Rediscover the joy and anticipation of this wonderful time of year. Watch the Christians around you, as they go about, unknowingly performing ancient pagan rites... and celebrate! Realize that the excitement that everyone feels at this time of the year has nothing, whatsoever to do with the birth of the Son of God... but rather, has everything to do with the rebirth of the SUN GOD! SIHA wrote:

Hello dear list members,Season's greetings and Merry Christmas.

-- Sally SpencerEnlightened Living Serviceshttp://www.Devi3.byregion.net

[Guest guest]

Thank you Iqbal ji

 

MAY THE NEW YEAR BE GOOD AND HAPPY FOR ALL THE LIST MEMBERS AND THEIR

FAMILIES.

 

BEST REGARDS

 

RITU LALIT

 

 

 

, " Iqbal " <punjabilovebug>

wrote:

>

> Namaskar to all Members!

>

> I am pleased to join this group following the recommendation to

read

> through the messages by my friend Gullu. I have had the distinct

> pleasure of having interacted with many of you (Prabhakar Ji,

Kondal

> Ji, Bains Ji, Khattar Ji, Ritu Ji) from the other board with

> extensive offline conversations about Lal Kitab, and unique upayes

> for treatement.

>

> I am looking forward to learning more from you all, in helping to

> unlock the secrets of Lal Kitab even further.

>

> Jai Gurudev!

>

> Iqbal,

> Toronto, Canada

[Guest guest]

Respected, Iqbal Ji

 

I, on the behalf of all the group members welcome uoy to this group of LaKitab

Researchers. We feel lucky to have another Intelligent Researcher in our

group.

Your guidance will help all of us to achieve our goal

 

Best regards

 

Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

Moderator

nk

 

 

======= At 2004-12-20, 22:05:43 you wrote: =======

 

>

>

>Namaskar to all Members!

>

>I am pleased to join this group following the recommendation to read

>through the messages by my friend Gullu. I have had the distinct

>pleasure of having interacted with many of you (Prabhakar Ji, Kondal

>Ji, Bains Ji, Khattar Ji, Ritu Ji) from the other board with

>extensive offline conversations about Lal Kitab, and unique upayes

>for treatement.

>

>I am looking forward to learning more from you all, in helping to

>unlock the secrets of Lal Kitab even further.

>

>Jai Gurudev!

>

>Iqbal,

>Toronto, Canada

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Iqbaal ji,

I am highly oblized to you for your joining the group. Definately

group members will be beneficial from your knowledge.

Thanks

Umesh Sharma

lalkitab , " Iqbal "

<punjabilovebug> wrote:

>

> Namaskar to all Forum Members,

>

> I am pleased to join this group at the invitation of Sh. Umesh

> Sharma Ji. I look forward to helping others with their problems.

>

> Iqbal

> Toronto, Canada

[Guest guest]

Hello

Happy New Year to u too.I am just curious to know how do we pick the #.

Thanks

Alena"Gopalachary P.M." <maripmgg wrote:

Dear Friend,Good Morning,Wish you a Happy & Prosperous New Year.Today is Hindu New year day as per Chandra Mana.Thank You Good LuckpmgBeware: People will contact you on your personal mail offering remedies, far from transparency of this group. The risk is yours. Trust only if you initiate correspondence.Please select "No email" option to avoid mails to your mailbox.Please be patient. Effort is to answer all queries systematically, queue wise. Do remind if your message is missed. Generally, an answer to your query should happen within one week.Umesh Sharma, a professional astrologer, has most of the day consumed by his clients. Hence lag in answering queries.Post in group for free limited guidance. Send private mails to Umeshji only if ready to pay

for full professional consultation.INSTRUCTION:- 1. DO ONLY ONE REMEDY IN ONE DAY, DURING DAY TIME.2. SEND FEED BACK AFTER 15/43DAYS, AFTER HAVING PERFORMED THE REMEDIES.CAUTION: Although utmost care has been taken to select and suggest the remedies, remedies suggested are in good faith with the view to do welfare of Humanity. Consultees should observe and perform these only at their own will, accord and risk. Mobile- Download the latest ringtones, games, and more!

[Guest guest]

Hello Happy New Year to you too!

Hugs

Ree

>"Gopalachary P.M." <maripmgg

>lalkitab

>lalkitab

>[lalkitab] Greetings

>Sat, 09 Apr 2005 04:05:28 -0000

>

>

>Dear Friend,

>

>Good Morning,

>

>

>Wish you a Happy & Prosperous New Year.

>

>Today is Hindu New year day as per Chandra Mana.

>

>

>Thank You

>

>Good Luck

>

>pmg

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Good Afternoon to All,

Thanks for the Greeting, I didn't even know about this New Year!! ... I want to extend my best wishes to everyone on this New Year's Celebration ... and lots of Blessings and Good Health for the coming year!!

Angelica

 

 

 

 

"Gopalachary P.M." <maripmgg wrote: Dear Friend,Good Morning,Wish you a Happy & Prosperous New Year.Today is Hindu New year day as per Chandra Mana.Thank You Good LuckpmgBeware: People will contact you on your personal mail offering remedies, far from transparency of this group. The risk is yours. Trust only if you initiate correspondence.Please select "No email" option to avoid mails to your mailbox.Please be patient. Effort is to answer all queries systematically, queue wise. Do remind if your message is missed. Generally, an answer to your query should happen within one week.Umesh Sharma, a professional astrologer, has most of the day consumed by his clients. Hence lag in answering queries.Post in group for free limited guidance. Send private mails to Umeshji only if ready to pay

for full professional consultation.INSTRUCTION:- 1. DO ONLY ONE REMEDY IN ONE DAY, DURING DAY TIME.2. SEND FEED BACK AFTER 15/43DAYS, AFTER HAVING PERFORMED THE REMEDIES.CAUTION: Although utmost care has been taken to select and suggest the remedies, remedies suggested are in good faith with the view to do welfare of Humanity. Consultees should observe and perform these only at their own will, accord and risk. Post your free ad now! Canada Personals

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the wishes Mr.Anant.

 

I wish you the same to you and your family.

Regards

Balu sosale

FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

[Guest guest]

II Om Namo Bhagawate Vaasudevaaya II Respected all Guruji, Jyotishis , SJC students and the members of the group and their friends and family, Please accept my hearty greetings on the eve of new year 2006. May GOD the almighty shower his blessings forever so that the students like me may have privilege to learn something from you all. May almighty bless you " JIVEM SHARDAH SATAM". Thanks and regards, Ramesh MishraSend instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger.

[Guest guest]

DEar Shri. Ramesh Mishraji.,

 

I heartily reciprocate your greetings.

 

Blessed be.

 

 

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 ramesh mishra wrote :

>II Om Namo Bhagawate Vaasudevaaya II

> Respected all Guruji, Jyotishis , SJC students and the members of the group and their friends and family,

> Please accept my hearty greetings on the eve of new year 2006. May GOD the almighty shower his blessings forever so that the students like me may have privilege to learn something from you all. May almighty bless you " JIVEM SHARDAH SATAM " .

> Thanks and regards,

> Ramesh Mishra

>

>Send instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger.

 

Pandit.R.DAKSHINAMOORTHI

Plot. NO.1/29,

Eleventh Street,

Babanagar,

Villivakkam,

Chennai 600 049.

[Guest guest]

, ramesh mishra

<aarceemastro2002> wrote:

>

> II Om Namo Bhagawate Vaasudevaaya II

> Respected all Guruji, Jyotishis , SJC students and the members of

the group and their friends and family,

> Please accept my hearty greetings on the eve of new year 2006. May

GOD the almighty shower his blessings forever so that the students

like me may have privilege to learn something from you all. May

almighty bless you " JIVEM SHARDAH SATAM " .

> Thanks and regards,

> Ramesh Mishra

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends

http://in.messenger.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Selvaraj I reciprocate your good wishes, and hope and wish, that all members will gain prosperity, by increasing there knowledge in days to come. Please do not address me as Guruji, I am not a GURU, nor have I the capacity to accept the responsibility of a real GURU. Raichurji is good enough."C.Selvaraj" <cselvaraj1 wrote: Respected GurujiKindly accept my Heartiest Diwali Greetingsand bless me and fellow studentsfor the propertity of KP Astro knowledge.NamaskarsStudentSelvarajGood LuckRaichur A RBombay Tel 2506 2609

How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

[Guest guest]

raichur ji kanak bai, ly rao ji and all the esteemed members of the group happy diwali and best wishes takecare godbless. raj k.Raichur-a-r <raichurar wrote: Dear Selvaraj I reciprocate your good wishes, and hope and wish, that all members will gain prosperity, by increasing there knowledge in days to come. Please do not address me as Guruji, I am not a GURU, nor have I the capacity to accept the responsibility of a real GURU. Raichurji is good

enough."C.Selvaraj" <cselvaraj1 (AT) eth (DOT) net> wrote: Respected GurujiKindly accept my Heartiest Diwali Greetingsand bless me and fellow studentsfor the propertity of KP Astro knowledge.NamaskarsStudentSelvarajGood LuckRaichur A RBombay Tel 2506 2609 How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

[Guest guest]

Deall all group members, Wishing you all happy and joyous life full with light on the eve of Deepawali. Thanks and regards. Ramesh Mishra

Find out what India is talking about on - Answers India Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Messenger Version 8. Get it NOW

[Guest guest]

Dear Raichurji, Wish you and all the list members a happy diwali. Thanks, KumarRaichur-a-r <raichurar wrote: Dear Selvaraj I reciprocate your good wishes, and hope and wish, that all members will gain prosperity, by increasing there knowledge in days to come. Please do not address me as Guruji, I am not a GURU, nor have I the capacity to accept the responsibility of a real GURU. Raichurji is good enough."C.Selvaraj" <cselvaraj1 (AT) eth (DOT) net> wrote: Respected GurujiKindly accept my Heartiest Diwali Greetingsand bless me and fellow studentsfor the propertity of KP Astro knowledge.NamaskarsStudentSelvarajGood LuckRaichur A RBombay Tel 2506 2609 How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Small Business.

[Guest guest]

prof. vk choudhry ji happy diwali and bestwishes to u and all the members of

this group takecare godbless raj k

 

siha wrote:

Hello Vita,

 

I add my replies/comments to your questions in your message appended below.

 

Best wishes,

 

 

 

-

" Vita S-W " <uttarashada

 

Saturday, October 21, 2006 8:16 AM

Transit of Jupiter for Capricorn

 

> Dear Prof. Choudry,

>

> I have just visited your website and was reading your general predictions

> for Capricorn and I have a few questions, which I was wondering if you

> could

> clarify for me.

>

> You say: " When strong and unafflicting it [Jupiter] provides comforts. "

>

> 1. Strength: Do you refer to Jupiter's natal and/or transit strength?

 

TRANSIT STRENGTH IS REFERRED.

 

>I think it is natal, but not sure because if Jupiter is transiting the

>early

> degrees of Scorpio, then this makes Jupiter weak in transit, so should we

> assume Jupiter's transit will generally be bad during the first 5 degrees

> of

> Scorpio?

 

JUPITER WILL FAIL TO PROTECT POSITIVE IMAPCT OF 12TH HOUSE WHEN WEAK.

>

> 2. Affliction: Would Jupiter for Capricorn only be afflicting when

> transiting the house MEP's and planets's orbs?

 

YES.

But would Jupiter's transit

> be beneficial for the house it is placed in and the houses it aspects when

> it is away from those orbs/MEP, thus provinding comforts?

>

THEN IT WOULD PROMOTE THE SIGNIFICATIONS OF THE 12TH HOUSE.

 

> Thanks and best wishes and Happy New Year to you, dear Professor, and all

> members of SATVA.

>

HAPPY NEW TO YOU AND I JOIN YOU TO WISH HAPPY NEW YEAR TO DEAR LIST MEMBERS.

 

> Vita.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

happy diwali to guru ji sanjay rath and esteemed members of sohamsa group and sarbani ji visti ji freedom ji narasimha ji bestwishes for the new year takecare godbless raj k.ramesh mishra <aarceemastro2002 wrote: Deall all group members, Wishing you all happy and joyous life full with light on the eve of Deepawali. Thanks and regards. Ramesh Mishra Find out what India is talking about on - Answers India Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Messenger Version 8. Get it NOW

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Thank you Sir, Wishing A prosperous new year and a happy Eid to all KP members Regards C.K. Anand kumar kumar <kumar07306 wrote: raichur ji kanak bai, ly rao ji and all the esteemed members of the group happy diwali and best wishes takecare godbless. raj k.Raichur-a-r <raichurar > wrote: Dear Selvaraj I reciprocate your good wishes, and hope and wish, that all members will gain prosperity, by increasing there knowledge in days to come. Please do not address me as Guruji, I am not a GURU, nor have I the capacity to accept the responsibility of a real GURU. Raichurji is good enough."C.Selvaraj" <cselvaraj1 (AT) eth (DOT) net> wrote: Respected GurujiKindly accept my Heartiest Diwali Greetingsand bless me and fellow studentsfor the propertity of KP Astro knowledge.NamaskarsStudentSelvarajGood LuckRaichur A RBombay Tel 2506 2609 How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

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