sailu Posted August 27, 2008 Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 Life So depressing, no hope, no love, mind restless, thinks negative, so many wants, likes, dislikes, anger, hate, sadness, guilt, worry, surfing internet for answers, hoping life to end fast, helplessness, fear, responsibilities, hurt, , dissatisfied, weak relations, its like being alone in a crowd, ever rising desires, never ending unhappiness………..where does this all take me I enquired and I found that it all lead me towards dispassion and I thank them all from my heart for all the experiences that they gave which made me enquire and try to see within !! -Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishadi Posted August 27, 2008 Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 Life .................. I found that it all lead me towards dispassion and I thank them all from my heart for all the experiences that they gave which made me enquire and try to see within !! -Thanks. That opener fits this idea Death creates dispassion in any person in any country. It's a reality of life which is seen. We struggle for our whole lives for possessions, for pleasure, and for self-gratification. And then what do we see? A person is dead. Perhaps the idea of dispassion is moot? If you live your whole life believing you are here for nothing than be nothing but if you understand ‘life’ then live. If you were on your death bed and knew you were still alive in all that you have done, then you would smile as if the change from life to death was just like sleeping. To know that the trees planted, the children raised, the flowering life of all your contributions were not in vain. That the energy of your life (existence) is alive within the gifts you contributed to others and life to continue; then you can experience the bliss of ever lasting life and know it, passionately. Dispassion is to remember you should not put selfish emotions or attachments to things over awareness of others or ‘the common’ first. But how can a choice be dispassionate? Meaning how can you take a step forward without intent? So without true understanding; be selfless and aware. (old school) With ‘understanding’ be most passionate about life. (the new) Live in what you do; the experienced choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailu Posted August 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 Its ture that dispassion arises from death but I believe that it is not the only thing that causes a person to draw within. All the pain and suffering which makes ones life a living hell changes that person to that extent that he would be indifferent even towards his body. one has to live life whether one understand it or not. understanding life doesn’t erase mental and physical suffering. one who wants to get away from the pain of this world take up the path of discrimination and dispassion. One living with thought of being nothing and being selfless....is a path laid for the him, by his experiences. So I don’t think dispassion/viragya is a choice but it’s a state of mind that one gets into with certain experiences. It’s not death that worries me but life. you said"With ‘understanding’ be most passionate about life. (the new)<u1:p></u1:p>…….” ??? Lets say a person close to one like life partner…. is brutally murdered in mass shootings for example…should he think that these things happen and be passionate about life? There is nothing passionate about life. All I can see is pain and suffering!! <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--> -no offence .....just my thoughts. bye! <!--[endif]--><u1:p></u1:p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Happel Posted August 27, 2008 Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 Just don’t be afraid to die. You can always die. And unless you have really (really) serious problems with life, don’t choose to die. If you do, then first make sure you are not afraid to die. Kind regards, Bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primate Posted August 27, 2008 Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 The Buddhist concept of 'bardo' referres to the period between one life and the next, this is its normal meaning when it is mentioned without any qualification. There has been considerable dispute over this theory during the early centuries of Buddhism, with one side arguing that rebirth (or conception) follows immediately after death, and the other saying that there must be an interval between the two. With the rise of mahayana, belief in a transitional period prevailed. Later Buddhism expanded the whole concept to distinguish six or more similar states, covering the whole cycle of life, death, and rebirth. But it can also be interpreted as any transitional experience, any state that lies between two other states. Its original meaning, the experience of being between death and rebirth, is the prototype of the bardo experience, while the six traditional bardos show how the essential qualities of that experience are also present in other transitional periods. By refining even further the understanding of the essence of bardo, it can then be applied to every moment of existence. The present moment, the now, is a continual bardo, always suspended between the past and the future. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bardo) Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bija Posted August 27, 2008 Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 So I don’t think dispassion/viragya is a choice but it’s a state of mind that one gets into with certain experiences. Drawing within is not the same as controlling the senses. Drawing within is trying to shut out an environement which one has found to be awful. But one will never find happiness that way, because the pain actually lies within. We need to move from naievity to innocence. The black time is like a transition stage from naievity to innocence (as our good friend here has given the example of bardo). In the naieve stage of childhood we thought everything was lovely, that all was there to serve us. And then we awoke...and found it was ghastly. That entities in the environment had little love like ourself, selfishness. So the child then decides to withdraw... We need to move through the black time, as quickly as we can. And move to the new child, who is not naieve any longer. 'Be as children' said Christ, 'to see the kingdom'. A new child. Full of 'innocence' and joy. Searching for the kingdom, which is found in the 'other'. When we begin to see 'the other' we have moved beyond the world of selfishness...and taken the first step toward love. We are all born with some degree of autism. The baby tries to survive, and sees with limited vision all around it, a food source. The baby grows in imagination to a child. The child imagines to become an adolescent. Then we become adult... We need to re-imagine what is outside of ourself. Then we will begin to see what is outside is the same as what is inside of ourself...'the need to love the other'. If we can by some good fortune awaken to see Krsna everywhere...black days will not remain. That has been my experience of life when I became a man. Take care sailu...search for truth...you will find! From 'naievity to innocence'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amlesh Posted August 28, 2008 Report Share Posted August 28, 2008 See yourself eternal; see the same in others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailu Posted August 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2008 Drawing within is not the same as controlling the senses. Drawing within is trying to shut out an environement which one has found to be awful. But one will never find happiness that way, because the pain actually lies within. '...pain actually lies within' should be ended like this....pain actually lies within the mind. 'By Drawing within' i ment to draw oneself from the mind towards the self. i hope to achieve it with in this life time..... -S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishadi Posted August 28, 2008 Report Share Posted August 28, 2008 <?xml:namespace prefix = o /> Its ture that dispassion arises from death but I believe that it is not the only thing that causes a person to draw within. the idea was that to see death upon the face of another allows each to observe dispassion that the human form upon physical death has no selfish desires, loss or gain in choices to make; they are no longer on the take. To observe the death of another, offers a mind a chance to open their eyes to what life is, rather than what we have culturally been taught to believe. Most all of mankind has a moment of awakening when recognizing death of another. Many begin to self reflect. All the pain and suffering which makes ones life a living hell changes that person to that extent that he would be indifferent even towards his body.<?xml:namespace prefix = u1 /><u1:p></u1:p> That hell is self prescribed. Many do not wake up with needs and desires upon the mind. Words upon the mind and prescribed responsibilities often create them attachments. Hence why in some teachings they suggest; ‘remove the entanglements.’ To remove them responsibilities often sheds the desires of needs. one has to live life whether one understand it or not. agreed as instinct takes over; survival within an environment understanding life doesn’t erase mental and physical suffering. if you knew your life after death is real, rather than believed or of hope, then where is the suffering with realizing nothing is yours to begin with? Meaning all them desires, needs and wants are self prescribed when without cloths, food, or water, you can still live in what you do. one who wants to get away from the pain of this world take up the path of discrimination and dispassion.<u1:p></u1:p> but then we are back to understanding life. Meaning; to simply sit and do nothing like a monk in the mountain caves; is selfish in a sense as that knowledge may die with the teacher as well what life is continued, created or living beyond the choice? Doing nothing brings little gain or loss; a safe bet but perhaps also a loss to the common. Just imagine how many great teachers never had a child to nurture and teach all that they learned or never wrote down with words to share what was realized One living with thought of being nothing and being selfless....is a path laid for the him, by his experiences. So I don’t think dispassion/viragya is a choice but it’s a state of mind that one gets into with certain experiences. Which is easy; remove the self as the priority and follow the rules; Good: supports life Bad: loss to the common It’s not death that worries me but life.<u1:p></u1:p> hence the wisdom; ‘do little if not understanding’ but then another; ‘if the bowl is dirty, wash it’ Such that if you have the thought, ‘to cross the river’ perhaps observe why you wish too. It is for the good of life to continue, or for a selfish desire? <u1:p></u1:p>you said"With ‘understanding’ be most passionate about life. (the new)<U1:P></U1:P>…….” ???<u1:p></u1:p> to know that to take your shirt off for your brothers warmth will save his life; then as you shiver; your choice was of passion You chose to support life over the self! Lets say a person close to one like life partner…. is brutally murdered in mass shootings for example…should he think that these things happen and be passionate about life?<u1:p></u1:p> Did you do it (kill the partner)…. ? Then what choice is best; to learn from the experience or maintain a hate which can harm each moment thereof in pain and suffering. Only by maintaining a possession (which is not yours) can you suffer any loss. i.e… in the stead of mourning a deceased, praise their life so they live longer but to hate a feeling of loss is self prescribed. They didn’t leave you but helped you become a nourished soul. They live in you and what Love you experienced. Love them back by planting a tree in memory of that Love; give back. As well perhaps teach a lesson to another that you learned from them; give again and contribute to their continued life. Life is not simply making choices; that is ‘the experience’ not the life of their being. See the difference? Choice is the experience; life is what was imposed to existence; whether good or bad. There is nothing passionate about life. All I can see is pain and suffering!! Perhaps to understand Life purely then perhaps that suffering can be understood by even a child before their parents ever pass that period of choice. IN such that to Love each moment and never be in a mind of ‘unfinished business’ as if to not have taken for granted each moment and remember to give back that Love while both still have that choice. My better half held the hands of both parents when they left and never cried but said ‘thank you,’ for giving. Her Mother was a born again Christian and a few months before leaving, spent almost 3 weeks in our home and to see the change in her as the lady played with our dogs and laughed more than most elderly you would ever see; She learned the truth of life from the words learned and shared and from that point forth began to understand what her life is and what the ever after is; she began to live with truth and know bliss for the last months of her life. It was the most beautiful change this I had ever seen from a single person beginning to understand. All based in Understanding Life removing the ideas and guise of religious beliefs and grounding the truth to comprehension of what ‘life’ is. She became aware! Kind of strange me talking about life, and use a deceased person within the example. Perhaps Gloria lives within all of us now! Another ‘thank you’ for the Love that still lives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailu Posted August 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2008 As i analysed i found that suffering was not during sleep even though there is the same surrounding environment. but suffering was known in the awakend state.which means that when there is ego there was pain. That ego is often hurt ....when one realises that the root cause of pain is ego one tries to find a way where it doesn't hurt. that is when one reflects on true self. Not all experiences take a person to the same path.....one standing near a window might watch the ground or the sky or could not be see either of it even with eyes open wide. some experiences make a person to help others while some make one to avenge for their loss, some make one to live carelessly while some make one withdraw to self reflect. what can i help others when i am in need of help. only if i am devoid of pain and suffering that i can make it go away for them! unless i win over my ego which is the root cause of everything there is no peace or happiness for me. Thanks Bishadi ...its nice chatting with you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amlesh Posted August 28, 2008 Report Share Posted August 28, 2008 Thanks Bishadi ...its nice chatting with you! Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bija Posted August 28, 2008 Report Share Posted August 28, 2008 '...pain actually lies within' should be ended like this....pain actually lies within the mind.'By Drawing within' i ment to draw oneself from the mind towards the self. i hope to achieve it with in this life time..... -S. Yes, thank you sailu, me too. The suffering is the mind. Srila BR Sridhara Dev Goswami said one time, 'the environment is all nurturing, try to see the environment as fully nurturing'. The self by its very nature is equiped for the spiritual environment, as we become more liberated the field also becomes more spiritual. Even then we can fall back to the ghastly world, but with determination and practice we will become steady in realization. And one day dear friend, we will look out and see the kingdom of God. And we will be over-joyed. Gurudeva said to me onetime something that helped alot and became a meditation in my mind. 'Try to see Lord GaurangaKrsna everywhere'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bija Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 56) Chanakya Pandit said, "At night the sky becomes beau.tiful in intimate association with the moon. A state is orga.nized by a good government. A young lady appears very beau.tiful in the presence of her husband. And even an ugly person can appear beautiful if he is learned." Prabhupada says, "Similarly, everything becomes attractive if Krishna is there." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Life So depressing, no hope, no love, mind restless, thinks negative, so many wants, likes, dislikes, anger, hate, sadness, guilt, worry, surfing internet for answers, hoping life to end fast, helplessness, fear, responsibilities, hurt, , dissatisfied, weak relations, its like being alone in a crowd, ever rising desires, never ending unhappiness………..where does this all take me I enquired and I found that it all lead me towards dispassion and I thank them all from my heart for all the experiences that they gave which made me enquire and try to see within !! -Thanks. Kirtan is sadhana, it is musical japa, and if it is done as a discipline, it can take you all the way. As Swami Sivananda says: “Kirtan is singing of the Lord’s glories. The devotee is thrilled with divine emotion. He loses himself in the love of God. His hair stands on end due to extreme love for God. He weeps in the middle when thinking of the glory of God. His voice becomes choked, and he flies into a state of divine bhava. One can realize God through kirtan alone.“ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srikanthdk71 Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Great Bishadi, you have almost written a word-to-word Bhashya to clear off all misusings by the original poster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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