Hindu Pujari, Hindu Cook

[theist 1]

Article from Sampradaya Sun

 

Hindu Pujari, Hindu Cook

BY: KURMA DASA

 

Jan 20, AUSTRALIA (SUN) —

Mahavidya dasa's recent article, "

A Hindu Temple?

", raises a phenomenon that seems to be occurring at ISKCON temples around the world.

 

With all due respect to the Indian community, who have a natural affinity with Krishna and the many things they find in common within ISKCON and their place of birth, we have a problem (at least in this part of the world) in that the authorities here view the Indian community simply as a source of money. Because of this, the strict standards and guidelines set by Srila Prabhupada are being overlooked to accommodate this newly found source of money.

 

Much of the Indian community that come to the temples here in Australia still eat meat, and outside of their temple visits do all the things we criticize western karmis for doing.

 

This raises some interesting subjects, for example: lets say you're a Ritvik, or one of the more unusually "termed" followers, (by ISKCON's unusual leaders) of Srila Prabhupada. The authorities will not display the same compassion or accommodations they will find for the donating, meat-eating members of the Indian community.

 

You may follow all the principles and rules as given by Srila Prabhupada, but if your opinion is out of clout with the authorities here, you will be ostracized, demonized, and kicked out. The staunch brahmacharis and upper echelon members will find plenty of time to discuss how to demonize you, the unusual devotee follower. Conversely they will also find plenty of time to compromise their own principles and Srila Prabhupada's ideals to accommodate the Indian donators, in whatever manner the donator pleases.

 

I'm not to sure of exactly what is going on at the Bhaktivedanta Manor, although here in Australia we have paid cooks and pujaris who were imported from India to work at the temple and the City restaurant. The local temple is Radha Krishna, installed by Srila Prabhupada.

 

On a Saturday we have a special feast day at 4.30 pm for the Indian community, just like the Sunday feast. Whilst anyone is welcome to attend, it is a fact it is done to favor the Indian community. Sometimes the pujaris at this Saturday feast are outside members who only attend the temple during this time, so it is hard to know what they do for the rest of the week.

 

One guru who frequents here runs a special retreat farm program when in town, for Indian students

only

, which is pretty odd considering the lack of real preaching being given to westerners. Did Srila Prabhupada come to this country with God's message, wanting this to be our ideal of preaching?

 

Some may see this post as Indian bashing, but I have no desire for that, as many within the Indian community are my friends. This is more about the odd behavior of ISKCON's authorities and what they will and will not accommodate.

 

It really does seem that for money and the Indian community, ISKCON's authorities will compromise anything, and have plenty of time to think up ideas. In regard to westerners they have no plans for preaching. The westerners can just go to hell!

 

Kurma dasa (not the chef)

 

 

[raghu 2]

 

Because of this, the strict standards and guidelines set by Srila Prabhupada are being overlooked to accommodate this newly found source of money.

 

Much of the Indian community that come to the temples here in Australia still eat meat, and outside of their temple visits do all the things we criticize western karmis for doing.

 

At the iskcon temple near where I live, all of the initiated (and mostly NOT Indian) devotees eat at hotels/restaurants, watch television and movies, and eat chocolate. Their marriages often do not stay intact. They divorce, remarry, and allow men and women to mix freely. They are quite shameless about it in fact. There is even a movement among them to allow homosexual people to have marriage.

 

I just recently read something about an iskcon guru and sannyasi who admitted to having been degraded in his bhakti with a woman and then admitted to lying about it to cover his rear end. And he is now being allowed to remain in the society on "retirement" status or something like that.

 

It's strange to me that when iskcon people speak of individuals who don't follow their principles, they always look outward, as if it were a distinctly Indian phenomenon, rather than looking at the leaders and initiated members within their ranks who took vows to follow the rules. How do you expect others to follow your example when your example is no example to be followed?

 

 

You may follow all the principles and rules as given by Srila Prabhupada, but if your opinion is out of clout with the authorities here, you will be ostracized, demonized, and kicked out.

 

That's truly unfortunate. Perhaps iskcon society can learn lessons on tolerance and open-mindedeness from the members of this forum. After all, where else can you raise a controversial subject and be responded to with intelligent, thought-provoking comments that are based entirely on the merits of what is discussed instead of on one's status or membership within certain societies?

[theist 1]

 

It's strange to me that when iskcon people speak of individuals who don't follow their principles, they always look outward, as if it were a distinctly Indian phenomenon, rather than looking at the leaders and initiated members within their ranks who took vows to follow the rules. How do you expect others to follow your example when your example is no example to be followed?

I am not a member of Iskcon and you know little or next to nothing about Iskcon and those devotees. There has been a lot of challenging their entrenched leaders over the past couple of decades.

[shvu 1]

Theist,

 

You are getting clobbered for one or more of these reasons.

 

1. Trying to bring Jesus under the Vaishnava umbrella.

2. Offering custom meanings to Sanatana Dharma and Vaishnavism.

3. Derogatory views on Hinduism.

 

None of the above topics are relevant to your spiritual progress in any way. You would be better off sticking to spiritual topics and not get embroiled in mundane issues concering labels. Yes...Vaishnava is just another label and you gain exactly nothing by trying to change its meaning.

 

Humility is the start and end of spiritual progress and faulting another man's belief is not being humble. Addressing people as Prabhu and signing off posts with "Humbly yours", "your servant", etc is not humility.

 

 

Cheers

[Beggar 0]

I don't understand why intelligent Indians would be so attached to the Hindu label. Hindus have many different belief systems but are connected by a culture which has much of it's roots in Varnasrama Dharma. One of the preaching thrusts of Prabhupada's own guru, Srila Saraswati Thakur was to show that varna position that one has should be based on qualities not birth. He needed to show this in order to create the solid bases for giving the sacred thread to those not born in brahmana families.

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 7.11.35

yasya yal lakṣaṇaḿ proktaḿ

puḿso varṇābhivyañjakam

yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta

tat tenaiva vinirdiśet

 

TRANSLATION

If one shows the symptoms of being a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya or śūdra, as described above, even if he has appeared in a different class, he should be accepted according to those symptoms of classification.

 

 

Also Mahaprabhu Himself said,

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 13.80

nāhaḿ vipro na ca nara-patir nāpi vaiśyo na śūdro

nāhaḿ varṇī na ca gṛha-patir no vanastho yatir vā

kintu prodyan-nikhila-paramānanda-pūrnāmṛtābdher

gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ

 

 

 

TRANSLATION

"'I am not a brāhmaṇa, I am not a kṣatriya, I am not a vaiśya or a śūdra. Nor am I a brahmacārī, a householder, a vānaprastha or a sannyāsī. I identify Myself only as the servant of the servant of the servant of the lotus feet of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the maintainer of the gopīs. He is like an ocean of nectar, and He is the cause of universal transcendental bliss. He is always existing with brilliance.'"

 

 

 

So in India in the 1920's-30's amongst the educated elite, traditional Hinduism was equated with the caste system which was quite oppressive at the time. This is another reason that the British educated elite were beginning to reject "Hindu" culture.

 

For these two related reasons Srila Saraswati Thakur tried to show that sanatana dharma as preached by Mahaprabhu is not Hinduism. In the 1960's Srila Prabhupada used the same approach but also had another reason. No one in the American Hippy movement would have wanted to convert to Hinduism. It wouldn't have made any sense to them for they were wanting to get beyond labels.

[indulekhadasi 0]

Seriously, just chant Nityananda's name and pray for devotion to Sri Sri Radha Krishna!

 

One should not be attached to the name "Hindu" for that will get you nowhere. Chant the names of Nitai Gaura and Radha Krishna!

[shvu 1]

 

Seriously, just chant Nityananda's name and pray for devotion to Sri Sri Radha Krishna!

 

One should not be attached to the name "Hindu" for that will get you nowhere. Chant the names of Nitai Gaura and Radha Krishna!

 

Seriously, just chant Nityananda's name and pray for devotion to Sri Sri Radha Krishna!

 

One should not be attached to the name "Vaishnava" for that will get you nowhere. Chant the names of Nitai Gaura and Radha Krishna!

 

Cheers

[Beggar 0]

 

Seriously, just chant Nityananda's name and pray for devotion to Sri Sri Radha Krishna!

 

One should not be attached to the name "Vaishnava" for that will get you nowhere. Chant the names of Nitai Gaura and Radha Krishna!

 

Cheers

The word "Vaishnava" contains the word (name of) Visnu. Ajamila chanted the name of Lord Narayana but thought that he was crying out to his son whom he had named Narayana. In his chanting of Narayana there was no aparadha or offense but rather there was namabhasa and it was powerful enough for the Visnu Duttas to come and ward off the Yamaduttas. IOW he was liberated, and bhakti came latter. So what will you get if you chant "Hindu" at the time of death?

[shvu 1]

 

The word "Vaishnava" contains the word (name of) Visnu. Ajamila chanted the name of Lord Narayana but thought that he was crying out to his son whom he had named Narayana. In his chanting of Narayana there was no aparadha or offense but rather there was namabhasa and it was powerful enough for the Visnu Duttas to come and ward off the Yamaduttas. IOW he was liberated, and bhakti came latter. So what will you get if you chant "Hindu" at the time of death?

 

Which book tells you to chant the name Vaishnava?

 

These labels were not made for chanting. That was not the intent as everyone ought to know. Feel free to correct me.

 

Cheers

[shvu 1]

 

I don't understand why intelligent Indians would be so attached to the Hindu label.

 

Why is intelligence a factor here? Prabhupada takes a political position on Hinduism in the west and now the intellgience of Hindus is called into question. If you are attached to the label Hindu in anyway, you are not intelligent!

 

 

Hindus have many different belief systems...

 

So do Vaishnavas, Christians, you name it...

 

 

So in India in the 1920's-30's amongst the educated elite, traditional Hinduism was equated with the caste system which was quite oppressive at the time. This is another reason that the British educated elite were beginning to reject "Hindu" culture.

 

I never heard of such a thing. If you have some evidence, please bring it forth.

 

 

For these two related reasons Srila Saraswati Thakur tried to show that sanatana dharma as preached by Mahaprabhu is not Hinduism. In the 1960's Srila Prabhupada used the same approach but also had another reason. No one in the American Hippy movement would have wanted to convert to Hinduism. It wouldn't have made any sense to them for they were wanting to get beyond labels.

 

They all had their agendas to break tradition.

 

This has been discussed before. Varna is by birth only no matter how many neophyte Gurus object to this. It is not about right or wrong..it is just the way it has been for 1000s of years.

 

A Brahmin has to have a Gotra (the Y-chromosome line) and a converted Brahmin has none. He will have to make up one which would be a prevarication and therefore his Brahmin status is invalid in the traditional sense.

 

Cheers

[indulekhadasi 0]

 

Seriously, just chant Nityananda's name and pray for devotion to Sri Sri Radha Krishna!

 

One should not be attached to the name "Vaishnava" for that will get you nowhere. Chant the names of Nitai Gaura and Radha Krishna!

 

Cheers

 

Ohe Vaishnava thakura! Doyara sagoro ei dase koruna kori.

Oh great Vaishnava! Oh ocean of mercy, please be merciful unto me.

[Beggar 0]

 

This has been discussed before. Varna is by birth only no matter how many neophyte Gurus object to this. It is not about right or wrong..it is just the way it has been for 1000s of years.

 

Here you are soundly refuted. Can you give a sastric reference to prove that varna is only by birth?

 

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 7.11.35

yasya yal lakṣaṇaḿ proktaḿ

puḿso varṇābhivyañjakam

yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta

tat tenaiva vinirdiśet

 

TRANSLATION

If one shows the symptoms of being a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya or śūdra, as described above, even if he has appeared in a different class, he should be accepted according to those symptoms of classification.

[matarisvan 0]

 

Here you are soundly refuted. Can you give a sastric reference to prove that ffice:smarttags" />varna is only by birth?

The four varnas come from the Vedas. The rules and regulations come from dharma, grihya and shrauta sutras. There are many sutras and each Brahmin community is affiliated to one set of dharma sutras. The Apastamba (of Yajur-veda) sutras are available on sacred texts. The first 10 verses clarify that <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<st1:place w:st=" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">varna</st1:place></st1:City> is by birth. It is not changeable during the course of one’s life as it is believed that one is born into a certain <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">varna</st1:place></st1:City> for a reason. Brahmins are patrilineal descendants of any of these eight Rishis. Agastya, Atri, Gautam, Jamadagni, Kashyapa, Vasishtha, Vishwamitra and Bharadvaja. The name of the Rishi is the gotra of a Brahmin as the Rishi was his ancestor.

 

 

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 7.11.35

yasya yal lakṣaṇaḿ proktaḿ

puḿso varṇābhivyañjakam

yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta

tat tenaiva vinirdiśet

TRANSLATION

If one shows the symptoms of being a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya or śūdra, as described above, even if he has appeared in a different class, he should be accepted according to those symptoms of classification.

The Manu Smriti says molten lead should be poured into the ears of a Shudra who hears the vedas. Writing about something and practicing it in real life are two different things. In practice lead was not poured into shudra ears and varnas were not interchangable.

[matarisvan 0]

There are many examples establishing varna was by birth only.

 

Karna lied to Parashurama about his varna as Parashurama hated Kshatriyas. He told him he was a Brahmin. How did Prashurama determine his varna? It was by ancestry...not through an aptitude test taken by Karna. After the bee incident again Karna's varna is correctly established by his birth. Traditional temples in India which have been existing since long ago identify Brahmins by gotra and other details which are not available to one who has converted unless he is making up a false id.

 

It is possible that some recent religious factions may think they understand the varna system better than Parashurama and better than what Indians have followed for thousands of years. Like some people think without evidence christians were meant to to be vegetarians though in practice christians have not been vegetarians for 2000 years.

 

The best thing to do is to ignore such radical views.

[Beggar 0]

In Search of the Ultimate Goal of Life

by Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada

 

http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/prabhupada/in_search_ultimate_goal/prabhupada-3.html

 

The method of approach and the manner of humility exhibited by Lord Caitanya to Ramananda is the ideal for approaching a bona fide tattva-darsi or a master of transcendental knowledge. This is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita (4.34):

 

tad viddhi pranipatena

pariprasnena sevaya

upadeksyanti te jnanam

jnaninas tattva-darsinah

In the Bhagavad-gita, it is recommended that one approach the spiritual master for supramundane knowledge under the protection of service and surrender accompanied by relevant inquiries. Lord Caitanya, as the ideal teacher and practical demonstrator of the teachings of the Bhagavad-gita, teaches us by His approach to Ramananda Raya. He shows that a person desirous of knowing the transcendental science must not be proud of his material acquisitions of education and wealth, which are very insignificant to the transcendentally situated spiritual master from whom we should be very keen to understand the science of devotion.

If somebody approaches the bona fide spiritual master with the vanity of mundane pride in respect to his heredity, wealth, education, or personal beauty and without the necessary qualifications of surrender, service, and relevant inquiry, surely such a person will be honored outwardly by the spiritual master, but the spiritual master will decline to bestow transcendental knowledge upon the student who by his attitude of mundane vanity is rendered unqualified. Such a proud student is actually a sudra and he has no access to spiritual knowledge for want of the necessary qualifications mentioned above. Thus the sudra student, instead of availing himself to the mercy of the spiritual master, goes to hell as a result of his mundane vanity.

Ramananda Raya was born in the family of a sudra and was also a grhasta in terms of the system of varnasrama-dharma. Lord Caitanya appeared in the family of a highly cultured brahmana of Navadvipa and was in the topmost rank of the sannyasa asrama. Therefore, in terms of the varnasrama system, Ramananda Raya was in the lowest status while Lord Caitanya was in the highest status; yet, because Ramananda was a master in the art of transcendental knowledge, Lord Caitanya approached him as one should approach a guru. He did so for the benefit of us all.

 

 

 

[matarisvan 0]

 

In Search of the Ultimate Goal of Life

by Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada

 

http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/prabhupada/in_search_ultimate_goal/prabhupada-3.html

 

 

 

 

If this Ramananda was a shudra then there is no way he was a vedic Guru.

 

if chaitanya saw him as a master it was definitely not to study the vedas. It must have been some field of knowledge otuside the 3 vedas which are not restricted for specific varnas. Only the study of vedas was limited to the high varnas...puranas and such were not a problem.

[theist 1]

We won't interfer if someone wants to accept the son of a liberated brahmana as a spiritual teacher based on birth if they wish. Of course that same son may be the town drunk and debauch but that is their business.

 

To us such a choice based on birth is about as foolish as accepting a neurosurgeons son as a neurosurgeon himself even if he has flunked out of high school.

 

I won't let him operate on me but you real Hindus feel free to go right ahead.

[matarisvan 0]

 

We won't interfer if someone wants to accept the son of a liberated brahmana as a spiritual teacher based on birth if they wish. Of course that same son may be the town drunk and debauch but that is their business.

 

To us such a choice based on birth is about as foolish as accepting a neurosurgeons son as a neurosurgeon himself even if he has flunked out of high school.

 

I won't let him operate on me but you real Hindus feel free to go right ahead.

 

Was expecting something aliong these lines from the foreigner.

 

If it were not for these foolish Hindus there would be no Vedas, Mahabharata and you would never have heard of Krishna in your life.

 

The good thing is your opinions do not change anything.

[Beggar 0]

 

Was expecting something aliong these lines from the foreigner.

 

[Beggar 0]

 

 

In Search of the Ultimate Goal of Life

by Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada

Beyond Varna and Asrama

 

In the teachings of Lord Caitanya, especially in this perverted age of Kali, the passage mentioned above, wherein it says that it does not matter whether a person is a brahmana, sannyasi, or a sudra, is important. The qualification for a spiritual master is that he must be thoroughly conversant in the art and science of devotional service. This is revolutionary to the stereotyped, so-called spiritual mastership prevailing among the masses in India. The exploitative method is herein dealt a deadly blow and this truth is established by the devout followers of Sri Caitanya Maha- prabhu’s conception.

The fact is that a person who is thoroughly conversant about Sri Krsna can become a spiritual master either as an initiator or an instructor. It does not matter whether such a person is a brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, or a sudra. Nor does it matter whether he is a brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha, or a sannyasi. The only qualification of a spiritual master is his knowledge of the truth about Sri Krsna. The qualification certainly does not rest on his particular situation in terms of the system of varnasrama-dharma.

This order of Lord Caitanya, although apparently revolutionary to the non-progressive opportunists, is not at all against the injunctions of the scriptures. Following this principle, Lord Caitanya Himself took initiation from Sripad ˆsvara Puri, and Lord Nityananda Prabhu and Advaita Prabhu took initiation from Sripad Madhavendra Puri Goswami. Rasikananda Prabhu took initiation from Srila Shyamananda Prabhu, who appeared in the family of a non-brahmana, and Sri Ganga Narayana Cakravarti and Sri Ramakrsna Bhattacarya took initiation from Srila Narottama dasa hakura, who also happened to appear in the family of a non-brahmana. In the ancient literatures, it is written that there are no hereditary considerations for becoming a spiritual master.

[theist 1]

 

Was expecting something aliong these lines from the foreigner.

 

If it were not for these foolish Hindus there would be no Vedas, Mahabharata and you would never have heard of Krishna in your life.

 

The good thing is your opinions do not change anything.

 

I am in debt to the Vaisnavas for telling me about Krsna and not the Hindus.

 

Actually the use of the word foreigner is quite telling. You are Hindu-centric or India-centric and think everything outside your own little bubble is therefore foreign.

 

The truth is however that God is everywhere present and all souls are an intimate particle of His very Self. Considering this, who could be a foreigner?

[matarisvan 0]

 

I am in debt to the Vaisnavas for telling me about Krsna and not the Hindus.

 

These little games are fooling no one. funny that vaishnava brahmins follow gotra the same way as "hindu" brahmins.

 

 

Actually the use of the word foreigner is quite telling. You are Hindu-centric or India-centric and think everything outside your own little bubble is therefore foreign.

 

check the dictonary for the meaning of a foreigner.

 

 

The truth is however that God is everywhere present and all souls are an intimate particle of His very Self. Considering this, who could be a foreigner?

 

soul and foreigner are unrelated words and you would know this if you had been to school. In the end you are just showing yourself for what you are...an arrogant and ignorant westerner who has his head stuck firmly in the sand and will not take it out at any cost.

 

pathetic....

[Beggar 0]

<tt>Sri Guru & His Grace

</tt>Srila B. R. Sridhara Maharaja

Chapter Three

Descent of the Revealed Truth

 

So, the very gist of the guru parampara, the disciplic succession, is siksa, the spiritual teaching, and wherever it is to be traced, there is guru. One who has the transcendental eye, the divine eye, will recognize the guru wherever he appears. One who possesses knowledge of absolute divine love in purity--he is guru. Otherwise the guru parampara is only a body parampara: a succession of bodies. Then the caste brahmanas, the caste goswamis, will continue with their trade, because body after body, they are getting the mantra. But their mantra is dead. We are after a living mantra, and wherever we can trace the living tendency for a higher type of devotional service, we shall find that there is our guru. One who has that sort of vision awakened will be able to recognize the guru wherever he may appear.

[theist 1]

Jut see how the Srimad Bhagavatam glories the oppurtunity to take birth in Bharata-varsa. It offers the best chance for a soul to transcend the false designations of race,religion,caste, land of birth etc.

 

How sad it is that one who has taken such a fortunate birth wastes it entirely by becoming even more attached to the above mentioned false designations and thus wastes his chance.

 

 

 

TRANSLATION SB 5.19.23

A short life in the land of Bharata-varsha is preferable to a life achieved in Brahmaloka for millions and billions of years because even if one is elevated to Brahmaloka, he must return to repeated birth and death. Although life in Bharata-varsha, in a lower planetary system, is very short, one who lives there can elevate himself to full Krishna consciousness and achieve the highest perfection, even in this short life, by fully surrendering unto the lotus feet of the Lord. Thus one attains Vaikunthaloka, where there is neither anxiety nor repeated birth in a material body.

 

PURPORT

This is further confirmation of the statement given by Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu:

bharata-bhumite haila manushya-janma yara

janma sarthaka kari' kara para-upakara

[Cc. Adi 9.41]

One who has taken birth in the land of Bharata-varsha has a full opportunity to study the direct instructions given by Krishna in Bhagavad-gita and thus finally decide what to do in his human form of life. One should certainly give up all other propositions and surrender to Krishna. Krishna will then immediately take charge and relieve one of the results of past sinful life (aham tvam sarva-papebhyo mokshayishyami ma sucah [bg. 18.66]). Therefore one should take to Krishna consciousness, as Krishna Himself recommends. Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru: [bg. 18.65] "Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer Me obeisances." This is very easy, even for a child. Why not take this path? One should try to follow the instructions of Krishna exactly and thus become fully eligible to be promoted to the kingdom of God (tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti so'rjuna [bg. 4.9]). One should go directly to Krishna and engage in His service. This is the best opportunity offered to the inhabitants of Bharata-varsha. One who is fit to return home, back to Godhead, is no longer liable to the results of karma, good or bad.

 

[Ganeshprasad 0]

Pranam

As I see it, this whole debate is unhelpful, we are presented with a scenario and as we protest we get branded, as attached to labels, try hard as we may it becomes impossible.

 

On one hand, birth is glorified and then we get castigated for upholding varna, a system given by no other then the Lord himself. Birth is not something to be scoffed at, it is no accident, higher or lower species, it is a result of our previous sukruti. being born in good family, or Goswami or a brahmna is not an accident.

 

The Supreme Lord said: There is no destruction, O Arjuna, for such a yogi either here or hereafter. A transcendentalist is never put to grief (or bad state), My dear friend. (6.40)

 

The unsuccessful yogi is reborn, after attaining heaven and living there for many years, in the house of the pure and prosperous; or (6.41)

 

Such a yogi is born in a family of wise transcendentalists. A birth like this is very difficult, indeed, to obtain in this world. (6.42)

 

After taking such a birth, O Arjuna, one regains the knowledge acquired in the previous life, and strives again to achieve perfection. (6.43)

 

 

But this debate is not about varna or birth or Hindu people but it is about Hindu Dharma and it being constantly portrayed in bad taste, trying to put a wedge between Vaisnva and hindu as if to say vaishnav has never been a part of Hindu dharma.

Vedic dharma has many school of thoughts it has existed in the past and it is a reality now, the objection, the Hindu dharma has many different views does not wash.

 

There is no difference in Hindu or Vedic Dharma, that is how it is and has been for yonks. Wonderful Hindu Dharma that our ancestors fought so hard to preserve at unimaginable cost.

 

Jai Shree Krishna