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One life, or many lives?

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Tomasso

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One attraction "one-life-only" possesses is that, if you 'get right with God', then this is your only lifetime on earth, and you have eternity in heaven.

 

One attraction "many-lives-possible" possesses is that, if you don't 'get right with God', then this isn't your only lifetime, and you don't have to spend eternity in hell.

 

The synthesis of both is this: God transcends both heaven and hell -- thus, take your stand in the presence of God right now!

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One attraction "one-life-only" possesses is that, if you 'get right with God', then this is your only lifetime on earth, and you have eternity in heaven.

 

One attraction "many-lives-possible" possesses is that, if you don't 'get right with God', then this isn't your only lifetime, and you don't have to spend eternity in hell.

 

The synthesis of both is this: God transcends both heaven and hell -- thus, take your stand in the presence of God right now!

 

A major problem with this "get right with God" and you go to His eternal kingdom in one life is that those who say this have no working definition of what it means to get right with God. So we have animal killers who are working hard to get more material enjoyment thinking they are right with God. Being right with God is not such a cheap thing, it requires a total change of heart.

 

The many lives possible group understand this and that by the grace of Krsna even a little advancement protects us from hell and carries over with us to be built upon by our succeeding lifetimes so that we have an oppurtunity to build on that foundation until at some future lifetime we fullfill it. Then it will appear we have done it in that lifetime.

 

God consiousness can be had in a moment but 99.9% of us require more time.

 

From another angle it is a fact we only live once, that once though has no beginning or end, and all these so-called births and deaths are simply a temporary bad dream.

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Well we have the modes of passion and ignorance.

 

Dying for more, more, now, now!, the rajo guna lusty person might be tempted to just put off turning to God until another life if they thought it all just goes on and on - party hardy today and worry about it all tomorrow.

 

Similarly, to wake him up, the man in tamo guna needs the adrenalin boosting fear that eternal hell, fire and brimstone harbour for him.

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Well we have the modes of passion and ignorance.

 

Dying for more, more, now, now!, the rajo guna lusty person might be tempted to just put off turning to God until another life if they thought it all just goes on and on - party hardy today and worry about it all tomorrow.

 

Similarly, to wake him up, the man in tamo guna needs the adrenalin boosting fear that eternal hell, fire and brimstone harbour for him.

 

 

That's a good point. Maybe the hell fire and damnation Christian need that fear to motivate them. Never thought of it that way. Only problem I see is sometimes that fear and hellfire causes them to get maybe too riled up and do things that possibly makes it worse for them in next life. Don't know for sure.

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That's a good point. Maybe the hell fire and damnation Christian need that fear to motivate them. Never thought of it that way. Only problem I see is sometimes that fear and hellfire causes them to get maybe too riled up and do things that possibly makes it worse for them in next life. Don't know for sure.

 

It has been said that way back when the church father's were deciding what to include in the Holy Bible as we know it now - the decision was made to leave out the part where Jesus teaches that there is no eternal damnation in hell and that we get to come back again after punishments have been served.

 

Why did they leave this out? The church decided that if the people knew they get other chances and don't rot in hell for eternity then they would sin all the more knowing they would come back and get other chances to redeem themselves. Basically, it was left out to control the masses.

 

I don't remember which book this teaching was in but apparently Peter asked Jesus why God who is our loving father and whom we are to love would punish His children so severely forever. Jesus answered him by saying that is the secret. Hell is not for eternity.

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Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"

 

Absolutely true. After each death one's life is evaluated/judged and one is assigned to his next birth to work out that particular karma.

 

As we were talking above if one becomes Krana conscious in any particular life then he has no karma to drag him back into another incarnation. So each time theoretically he is appoint just once to die.

 

We see this same principle in our own justice system.

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Matthew 17

 

1And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

2And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

3And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

4Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

5While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

6And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.

7And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.

8And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.

9And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

10And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?

11And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

12But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

13Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

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It has been said that way back when the church father's were deciding what to include in the Holy Bible as we know it now - the decision was made to leave out the part where Jesus teaches that there is no eternal damnation in hell and that we get to come back again after punishments have been served.

 

Why did they leave this out? The church decided that if the people knew they get other chances and don't rot in hell for eternity then they would sin all the more knowing they would come back and get other chances to redeem themselves. Basically, it was left out to control the masses.

 

I don't remember which book this teaching was in but apparently Peter asked Jesus why God who is our loving father and whom we are to love would punish His children so severely forever. Jesus answered him by saying that is the secret. Hell is not for eternity.

 

I've always thought the same thing, but recently read something in a general-religions type book that suggested a different point of view: The one-lifetime, eternal damnation scenario was actually a no-brainer solution for the masses, as long as they accepted Christ and the Church as savior and adhered to a nominal standard of decent behavior. Fear was not involved to any great extent, the reason being that most people gave(give) little serious thought to philosophical questions and spiritual matters anyway, and will accept the easiest answer and go on with their lives...abstract mystical concepts and strict spiritual practices are a bothersome and generally ridiculous proposition for most. This outlook also promised the masses of poor and oppressed people eternal happiness after one short life of suffering, with the rich and powerful ruling classes getting their just dues in hell. I never quite understood why Karl Marx referred to religion as "the opiate of the people" until considering the question from this angle.

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Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"

 

This is the Biblical verse I've most often heard used to diss reincarnation. As-phrased, it is open to either a one-life or many-lives interpretation.

 

As far as I know the subject isn't directly addressed at any other place in the Bible, and I consider the often-quoted Biblical "references" to reincarnation to be cryptic at best.

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The below is from a poster on the Eastern Orthodoxy (Christian) site (monachos.net), concerning reincarnation and life-after-death:

 

From the book "Gifts of the Desert" by Kyriacos C. Markides (pg 248):

St. Silouan wrote: "My soul knows the mercy of God towards sinful humanity. Standing faced to face with Gode I am writing the truth: that every one of us sinful human beings will be saved. Not even a single soul will be lost, if it undergoes metanoia. It is so because the Lord is so infintely Good in His very nature that it is impossible to described with whatever words". (emphasis mine)

The author of the post then gives his commentary on St. Silouan's quote:

 

The point being that life after death 'must imply an eternal evolutionary process of purification', that all souls will sooner or later mature spiritually and undergo genuine metanoia which will open the gates for them to experience the eternal love of the Creator.

The author of the post then relates a story from "Gifts of the Desert" about the famous religious studies scholar Huston Smith and Smith's experience in India:

 

He then goes on to write about a story of Huston Smith, who, in 1964, while at the foothills of the Himalayas in India, he met a missionary of the Eastern Orthodox Church named Father Lazarus who had made an incredible impression on him. Mr. Smith went on to tell Father Lazarus that he was attracted to Hinduism because of its doctrine of universal salvation.

"Brother Lazarus responded by telling me his views on that matter. They took off from the passage in Second Corinthians where St. Paul tells of knowing someone who twelve years earlier had been caught up into the third heaven, whether in the body or out of the body he did not know... in that heaven the man 'heard things that were not to be told, that no mortal is permitted to repeat.'... Paul was speaking of himself, Father Lazarus was convinced, and the secret he was told in the third heaven was that ultimately everyone in saved. That is the fact of the matter, Father Lazarus believed, but it must not be told because the uncomprehending would take it as a license for irresponsibility. If they are going to be saved eventually, why bother? That exegesis solved my problem and has stayed in place ever since."

The poster finally shares his uneasiness with openly discussing "apokatastasis ton panton", or "the final restoration/salvation of all":

 

I do hesitate in quoting this, being that the idea of apokatastasis ton panton can be spiritually damaging and Lord have mercy on me if it strays people form the correct path by reading this. Many Church Fathers have spoken against this idea and I am only a simple laymen. I can't imagine it being a sin, however, to pray for such an outcome and hope that in the end all of us sinners will reach theosis. I know ultimately, such things are left for the mystery of God, though I hope one of our members could correct me if I am wrong in thinking this way.

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