Reading the books is like hearing the flute of Krishna

[Guruvani 0]

In the introduction to The Teachings of Lord Chaitanya, Srila Prabhupada ends the introduction with this statement.

 

 

Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami petitions the blessings of Lord Gopinatha. "May that Gopinatha, the master of the gopis, Krsna, bless you. May you become blessed by Gopinatha." Just as Krsna attracted the gopis by the sweet sound of His flute, the author of Caitanya-caritamrta prays that He will also attract the reader's mind by His transcendental vibration. It is the purpose of this book, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, to transmit the essence of that vibration in an easily readable summary study.

If we look at these words we will see that Krishnadas Kaviraja Goswami likened the reading of Sri Chaitanya Charitamrita to hearing the flute music of Krishna.

His goal in writing the book was to attract the mind of the readers in the same way that the flute music of Krishna attracts the minds of all who hear it.

So, we see the potency and potential of reading the books of the great devotees: it is very similar to hearing the flute music of Krishna - maybe even exactly the same for devotees.

 

Srila Prabhupada refers to the book as a "vibration".

 

He then goes on to say that his purpose in writing The Teachings of Lord Chaitanya was to TRANSMIT the essence of that vibration into an easily readable summary study.

 

So, the apparent implied meaning of these words is that the books are actually a form of transcendental vibration and the reading of these books is the form of receiving these transcendental vibrations of the pure devotees.

Script that describes the transcendental Lord and his devotees is transcendental script. It is not of this material world.

Spiritual books aren't just "books".

They are non-different than Krishna.

When we read these books we are connecting to this transcendental vibration and in turn chanting this vibration, even if in the mind.

We don't get love of Krishna from "books", but we get it from associating with the Lord and his devotees through the teachings and insructions they have given in those books.

 

Still, devotees always love and cherish the association of pure devotees and they always seek that and aspire for that.

 

But, the books are the flute music of Krishna and we all subsist off of that flute music.

Without the flute music of the books, our souls will chase after some physical form of guru in a sentimental search for affirmation.

 

[Guruvani 0]

In the preface of The Teachings of Lord Chaitanya, Srila Prabhupada writes:

 

 

In other words, those who are interested in attaining spiritual existence can be easily relieved from the clutches of maya by the grace of Lord Caitanya. These teachings presented in this book are nondifferent from the Lord.

 

So it is not "books" that can give us Krishna, but it is "the teachings presented in this book" that are the substance we need.

 

The teachings in the book are NON-different than the Lord.

 

It is not the book, but the teachings within it that is Krishna.

 

So, the worn-out slogan that "books cannot give us Krishna" is actually a deception and most usually a money-grab by preachers who need disciples and money.

Of course "books" can't give us Krishna, but the hearts of the pure devotees that have been poured-out in their books can give us Krishna.:crying2:

[Guruvani 0]

The fourth offense against the Holy Name is the blasphemy of Vedic literature and other authorized scriptures.

 

When some guru minimizes the spiritual literatures with some Vapavadi doctrine, because he needs disciples and money, then he is committing the fourth offense against the Holy Name.

 

To minimize the spiritual literatures and promote some "living guru" doctrine for financial gain or prestige is an offense against the Holy Name.

[Guruvani 0]

Mahaprabhu's instructions to his intimate disciple Srila Rupa Goswami was to write transcendental literature.

He didn't advise him to become Vapuvadi acharya, but to write books.

 

Therefore, the Rupanuga sampradaya is very much based upon the books of the authorized acharyas.

 

Rupa and Sanatan Goswami both were wholly dedicated to writing transcendental literature.

 

Mahaprabhu did not promote Vapuvada, but rather he wanted his most qualified disciples to write books for the future generations of devotees.

[Guruvani 0]

 

In the introduction to The Teachings of Lord Chaitanya, Srila Prabhupada ends the introduction with this statement.

 

 

If we look at these words we will see that Krishnadas Kaviraja Goswami likened the reading of Sri Chaitanya Charitamrita to hearing the flute music of Krishna.

His goal in writing the book was to attract the mind of the readers in the same way that the flute music of Krishna attracts the minds of all who hear it.

So, we see the potency and potential of reading the books of the great devotees: it is very similar to hearing the flute music of Krishna - maybe even exactly the same for devotees.

 

Srila Prabhupada refers to the book as a "vibration".

 

He then goes on to say that his purpose in writing The Teachings of Lord Chaitanya was to TRANSMIT the essence of that vibration into an easily readable summary study.

 

So, the apparent implied meaning of these words is that the books are actually a form of transcendental vibration and the reading of these books is the form of receiving these transcendental vibrations of the pure devotees.

Script that describes the transcendental Lord and his devotees is transcendental script. It is not of this material world.

Spiritual books aren't just "books".

They are non-different than Krishna.

When we read these books we are connecting to this transcendental vibration and in turn chanting this vibration, even if in the mind.

We don't get love of Krishna from "books", but we get it from associating with the Lord and his devotees through the teachings and instructions they have given in those books.

 

Still, devotees always love and cherish the association of pure devotees and they always seek that and aspire for that.

 

But, the books are the flute music of Krishna and we all subsist off of that flute music.

Without the flute music of the books, our souls will chase after some physical form of guru in a sentimental search for affirmation.

 

[Beggar 0]

Suppose, the only post you gave on this thread was #1 and you edited out this:

 

Without the flute music of the books, our souls will chase after some physical form of guru in a sentimental search for affirmation.

Every devotee and aspiring devotee would have to agree with you and relish what you wrote and quoted. But noooooooooo, you have to write:

 

Without the flute music of the books, our souls will chase after some physical form of guru in a sentimental search for affirmation.

...and flip out every practioner who has a living siksa or diksa guru. Or are you suggesting say that the followers of Guru "A" (for example) turn down their guru's invitation to meet with them and snuggle up to a good sastric book on a warm night with a cup of hot milk or soynog? Roasting chestnuts before an open fire? What are you saying that the Vapuvadis are offenders at the feet of St. Nick? Do your kids get presents from Santa Claus from his books or does he have to come down the chimney to deliver them? I hope you are not one of those who speculate that Santa Claus is in santa rasa. Actually there is no sastric evidence of this. Also be careful driving around the roads and highways of Alachua and surrounding counties. There are many young adult and teenage children of devotees driving their vehicles under the influence of alchohol. Sad but true. Merry Krishnamas and a Happy Blue Krishna Year!

[cbrahma 0]

I don't see the logic. Affirming the vibration , the vani, over physical presence, vapu shouldn't flip anybody out if they are listening to a bona fide authority, living or otherwise.

 

 

Suppose, the only post you gave on this thread was #1 and you edited out this:

 

Every devotee and aspiring devotee would have to agree with you and relish what you wrote and quoted. But noooooooooo, you have to write:

 

...and flip out every practioner who has a living siksa or diksa guru!

[Beggar 0]

 

I don't see the logic. Affirming the vibration , the vani, over physical presence, vapu shouldn't flip anybody out if they are listening to a bona fide authority, living or otherwise.

I'm just saying that all the devotees on all sides of this ongoing debate would agree with Guruvani's post and become very happy (by reading the post) if he left out his attack on the "vapuvadis". Tis the season to be jolly and not attack the vapuvadis tra la la la la, la la la la! (Wait a minute are you sure that was non-alchoholic soynog?)

[cbrahma 0]

Oh I can think of worse things than upsetting vapuvadis. I think it's their natural state anyway.

 

 

I'm just saying that all the devotees on all sides of this ongoing debate would agree with Guruvani's post and become very happy (by reading the post) if he left out his attack on the "vapuvadis". Tis the season to be jolly and not attack the vapuvadis tra la la la la, la la la la! (Wait a minute are you sure that was non-alchoholic soynog?)

[Beggar 0]

Why stir up the dung all the time? We see the truth in a particular way. We are all conditioned so we want reassurance of our little reality. When we don't get it we try to influence or control others to come to our way of thinking. I do it too, and I'm addicted to it. But you know, sometimes it gets old unlike the Holy Name of Krsna which is ever fresh. Unfortunately I have no realization of that so I have no attraction for Krsna Nama. But instead of following the instructions of the saints as a remedy, I just take out my frustrations on others and try to control. Such is the disease of material consciousness.

[cbrahma 0]

We stir up our own dung. We should be fixed in happiness-distress. If our peace is that fragile, then we need to revisit our spritual center.

Of course, there are people who get their kicks by disturbing others but the poster you questioned has a lot more to offer than that.

 

 

Why stir up the dung all the time. We see the truth in a particular way. We are all conditioned so we want reassurance of our little reality. When we don't get it we try to influence or control others to come to our way of thinking. I do it too, and I'm addicted to it. But you know, sometimes it gets old unlike the Holy Name of Krsna which is ever fresh. Unfortunately I have no realization of that so I have no attraction for Krsna Nama. But instead of following the instructions of the saints as a remedy, I just take out my frustrations of others and try to control. Such is the disease of material consciousness.

[Guruvani 0]

 

Suppose, the only post you gave on this thread was #1 and you edited out this:

 

Every devotee and aspiring devotee would have to agree with you and relish what you wrote and quoted. But noooooooooo, you have to write:

 

...and flip out every practioner who has a living siksa or diksa guru. Or are you suggesting say that the followers of Guru "A" (for example) turn down their guru's invitation to meet with them and snuggle up to a good sastric book on a warm night with a cup of hot milk or soynog? Roasting chestnuts before an open fire? What are you saying that the Vapuvadis are offenders at the feet of St. Nick? Do your kids get presents from Santa Claus from his books or does he have to come down the chimney to deliver them? I hope you are not one of those who speculate that Santa Claus is in santa rasa. Actually there is no sastric evidence of this. Also be careful driving around the roads and highways of Alachua and surrounding counties. There are many young adult and teenage children of devotees driving their vehicles under the influence of alchohol. Sad but true. Merry Krishnamas and a Happy Blue Krishna Year!

I probabaly could have left out the Vapuvadi comments without losing anyything in the post.

But, I was reading a book last night and writing down certain things that stood out as I read the book and also tried to sprinkle in some of my own realizations about what I was reading.

 

What I was trying to convery is not to smite and smash the "love of Vapu" crowd, but to show that the books are also vibrational as much as what comes out of the "lips" of the Vapu Guru.

In essence, the books ARE the lips of the spiritual master.

 

Since the human body is actually a machine, the Vapuvadis and their physical guru theory are saying that we can get something special out of these machines that is somehow more special that what we can get out of the books.

 

The whole idea is to get "spiritual understanding".

 

Whether we get "spiritual understanding" from a book or a machine doesn't matter as long as we get spiritual understanding.

 

I don't believe that there is any special magic coming from the Vapu machine. The real magic is in getting spiritual understanding.

We can read books and get spriitual understanding.

We don't have to be next a machine with a stool-bag in it to get get spiritual understanding.

We can read the books of the pure devotees and get spiritual understanding from their transcendental vibration.

 

We can't get prema from a stool-bag machine.

Neither do we get diksha from a stool-bag machine, but from the vibration of the spiritual master.

The books are also a form of that vibration.

[Beggar 0]

 

We can't get prema from a stool-bag machine.

Neither do we get diksha from a stool-bag machine, but from the vibration of the spiritual master.

The books are also a form of that vibration.

In Prabhupada's case I think you will agree that he did not have a material (stool-bag) body, rather it only appeared like that from the superficial position.

[Guruvani 0]

 

In Prabhupada's case I think you will agree that he did not have a material (stool-bag) body, rather it only appeared like that from the superficial position.

 

A pure devotee can use anything, even stool bags, in the service of Krishna.

The form of Srila Prabhupada had a stool bag aspect and a spriitual form as well.

The stool bag was given proper burial and the spiritual form of Srila Prabhupada is still existing and manfesting sometimes to certain souls whom he chooses to maninfest to.

 

Srila Prabhupada did not abandon his movement or the devotees of ISKCON.

He is still very much alive and trying to serve his spiritual master and preach Krishna consciousness through his ISKCON.

 

There are a certain number of people that are trying to stop that.

[Guruvani 0]

What can reading Srimad Bhagavatam do?

Srila Prabhupada explains what it can do in the very first verse.

 

SB 1.1.1 purport,

This Srimad-Bhagavatam will gradually elevate the unbiased reader to the highest perfectional stage of transcendence. It will enable him to transcend the three modes of material activities: fruitive actions, speculative philosophy, and worship of functional deities as inculcated in Vedic verses.

[Guruvani 0]

Sometimes we hear some preachers say that one must HEAR from the guru in his Vapu form to get the real effect.

They do not consider that reading the books of the Acharyas is the same as hearing them in person.

In the books of Srila Prabhupada we are informed that reading the books is the same thing as hearing and in fact IS hearing from the pure devotee in person.

 

SB 1.2.5 purport

 

Because the Srimad-Bhagavatam deals with questions and answers that are related to Krsna, we can derive the highest satisfaction only by reading and hearing this transcendental literature.

[Guruvani 0]

 

TEXT 40 <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

TEXT

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idam bhagavatam nama

puranam brahma-sammitam

uttama-sloka-caritam

cakara bhagavan rsih

nihsreyasaya lokasya

dhanyam svasty-ayanam mahat

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SYNONYMS

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idam--this; bhagavatam--book containing the narration of the Personality of Godhead and His pure devotees; nama--of the name; puranam--supplementary to the Vedas; brahma-sammitam--incarnation of Lord Sri Krsna; uttama-sloka--of the Personality of Godhead; caritam--activities; cakara--compiled; bhagavan--incarnation of the Personality of Godhead; rsih--Sri Vyasadeva; nihsreyasaya--for the ultimate good; lokasya--of all people; dhanyam--fully successful; svasti-ayanam--all-blissful; mahat--all-perfect.

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TRANSLATION

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This Srimad-Bhagavatam is the literary incarnation of God, and it is compiled by Srila Vyasadeva, the incarnation of God. It is meant for the ultimate good of all people, and it is all-successful, all-blissful and all-perfect.

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

PURPORT

Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu declared that Srimad-Bhagavatam is the spotless sound representation of all Vedic knowledge and history. There are selected histories of great devotees who are in direct contact with the Personality of Godhead. Srimad-Bhagavatam is the literary incarnation of Lord Sri Krsna and is therefore nondifferent from Him. Srimad-Bhagavatam should be worshiped as respectfully as we worship the Lord. Thereby we can derive the ultimate blessings of the Lord through its careful and patient study. As God is all light, all bliss and all perfection, so also is Srimad-Bhagavatam. We can have all the transcendental light of the Supreme Brahman, Sri Krsna, from the recitation of Srimad-Bhagavatam, provided it is received through the medium of the transparent spiritual master. Lord Caitanya's private secretary Srila Svarupa Damodara Gosvami advised all intending visitors who came to see the Lord at Puri to make a study of the Bhagavatam from the person Bhagavatam Person Bhagavatam is the self-realized bona fide spiritual master, and through him only can one understand the lessons of Bhagavatam in order to receive the desired result. <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--> One can derive from the study of the Bhagavatam all benefits that are possible to be derived from the personal presence of the Lord. It carries with it all the transcendental blessings of Lord Sri Krsna that we can expect from His personal contact.

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[Guruvani 0]

SB 1.5.11 purport

Under the circumstances, transcendental literature like Srimad-Bhagavatam will not only diminish the activities of the corrupt mind of the people in general, but also it will supply food for their hankering after reading some interesting literature. In the beginning they may not like it because one suffering from jaundice is reluctant to take sugar candy, but we should know that sugar candy is the only remedy for jaundice. Similarly, let there be systematic propaganda for popularizing reading of the Bhagavad-gita and the Srimad-Bhagavatam, which will act like sugar candy for the jaundicelike condition of sense gratification. When men have a taste for this literature, the other literatures, which are catering poison to society, will then automatically cease.

[Guest guest]

I hope this doesn't extend all the way up to the forms of Krsna will they also be considered stool bags? There seems to be some kind of obsession here with form.

It's fine for Srila Prabhupad to see his material body as a bag of stool, but it doesn't exactly paint a pretty picture for the disciple to keep obsessing on his gurus physical form in this way. I think Srila Prabhupad had one of the most unique forms I'd ever seen, even other worldly in a sense. He was rather hypnotic.

I once heard a story of Srila Prabhupad looking in a full length mirror and remarking "What a gem". When i first heard this I thought that doesn't sound very humble, but I was told that he qualified it by saying to his disciples that "what I have done you can't imitate," and that he was remarking on what Krsna had achieved through him. That this is a 'spiritual pride' of a self realized soul.

[Guest guest]

It's interesting to note when ever I've had dreams of Srila Prabhupad they were an illuminated version of his earthly form but I take it that may have been to identify him, but there was no doubt they are spiritual dreams or realities however one may relate to him.

[Guruvani 0]

h

I once heard a story of Srila Prabhupad looking in a full length mirror and remarking "What a gem".

That is some really second-hand information that could be coming from any one of a number of proven lunatics who had some physical proximity to Srila Prabhupada.

Really, such rubbish rumors should never be accepted or repeated.

 

I never accept any of these "my lila with Prabhupada" tales that the neophytes of early ISKCON proudly boast.

 

Such a tale is pure rubbish in my mind.

 

I don't accept these stories about Prabhupada by these nut-job disciples.

 

I have heard my share of miracle stories and other tales and rumors that these crackpot disciples have told, but I never buy into any of it.

 

It's all fiction to me.

 

These clowns that had some physical proximity to Srla Prabhupada have always tried to use that for their own prestige and position.

Most often, the best thing to do is just not pay any attention to them.

 

You really shouldn't broadcast that kind of nonsense on the web.

[Guest guest]

Why? Because it's not written in the books and it's only some disciples personal experience that may not have been taped. I had better not share my dreams well. The dream police may be in town too!

especially when there is only one authority on Srila Prabhupad here.

No imposters welcome.

Get out of MY dream.

[Guruvani 0]

 

I hope this doesn't extend all the way up to the forms of Krsna will they also be considered stool bags? There seems to be some kind of obsession here with form.

It's fine for Srila Prabhupad to see his material body as a bag of stool, but it doesn't exactly paint a pretty picture for the disciple to keep obsessing on his gurus physical form in this way.

 

The physical body of the pure devotee becomes like a red-hot iron in contact with fire.

When the iron gets hot it acts exactly like fire, but it is not fire.

The iron is still iron, but it becomes heated and acts like fire.

 

So, the body of the pure devotee like Srila Prabhupada is a material body but it is acting like a spiritual body.

 

Srila Prabhupada passed stool.

He had a material body that got diseased and old.

But, because he used that material body in devotional service it acted just like a spiritual body.

 

A red hot iron is still iron, but it acts like fire if you touch it.

[Guruvani 0]

 

Why? Because it's not written in the books and it's only some disciples personal experience that may not have been taped. I had better not share my dreams well. The dream police may be in town too!

especially when there is only one authority on Srila Prabhupad here.

No imposters welcome.

Get out of MY dream.

 

I'm just telling you that I have heard a number of tales and stories from various devotees, but I prefer to hear what Srila Prabhupada says, than what is said about Srila Prabhupada.

 

Because the tale you told presented Srila Prabhupada as arrogant and proud, I certainly do not accept such ridiculous tales.

 

If it hadn't been so racy and questionable I wouldn't have bothered to say anything.

[Guest guest]

I would have thought that if a disciple hears his guru say he is a gem he would be more than happy to accept everything that comes from his mouth,

especially seeing as we know it's true, that is it gets confirmed in our heart by the Lord himself.

 

Pride on the higher levels is completely different to that on this plane, like greed it can all be used in the service of Guru and Gauranga. But like he said if his disciples were to imitate him it would rather be the cause for falldown, as so many found out trying to do just that. So also it is extremley dangerous to judge the higher agents of divinity by our own polluted actions and assessment of this lower world. This is the root of sahajyaism and should constantly be guarded against while we are still engaged in material sense gratification. So there is a good lesson he is teaching in it, unfortunately it sailed right past some.

 

We've all seen so many disciples come so called guru doing their arrogant best imitation of their gurudev reprimanding young neophytes or criticising anyone that dares ask a question in a public audience, only to be embarrassingly cut down in public and have to wimper out like the proverbial wounded karmi dog that they were sometimes labelled.

 

That's the way you handle those who challenge our authority Bhakta Harry,

give them a barrage of insult so they're shellshot. And some day you may get a chance in the shooting gallery. This attitude isn't advisable especially if we're loaded with blanks.

 

There are various conscious gems that rest on the breast of the Lord. You don't know everything of a siddha purush's vision. I don't believe that was a tale. It was told by someone that was very sober and realistic.

It sits fine with me, I know Srila Prabhupads humility was always in tact. But this has to do with Divine dignity, and those who know nothing about it.

 

I don't know what racy means.