presence and diksa

[cbrahma]

Hopefully if I listen to my heart (Caitya guru) and use intelligence, I won't need luck.

 

I apologize if I offended you. Best of luck.

[AncientMariner]

 

Hopefully if I listen to my heart (Caitya guru) and use intelligence, I won't need luck.

 

 

 

true.

[Shakti-Fan]

 

What does Prabhupada mean by this statement?

 

"In my books the philosophy of Krsna Consciousness is explained fully so there is anything you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again. By reading daily the knowledge will be revealed to you and by this process your spiritual life will develop." (Letter to Brahmarupa Das, 22/11/74)

 

No offense but when Prabhupada contradicts what you say I am going to have to go with Prabhupada.

In the last few days a number of posters showed where Prabhupada himself appears to contradict the above quote. We need to get beyond semantics and harmonize the apparent contradictions. At least you must admit that once we read the books we will be taking in their content. The only content within the books is not just statements to read the books, although those statements are there within the books to encourage us to continue reading and come back tommorrow and everyday of our lives. Within the books we find the process of hearing from pure devotees glorified. We hear about the glories of the Holy Name of Krsna. We read or hear about Krsna's or Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhus pastimes. We read about the lives of the great devotees and many more topics. We are not impersonalists and everything in Prabhupada's books "is "an open secret" even the most confidential topics. "By reading daily the knowledge will be revealed to you and by this process your spiritual life will develop." Revelation from the Absolute comes down to us in the relativity of the different stages of the process of suddha bhakti. For one devotee, it is revealed that Krsna is God and that these books are non-different from Him.

On another level it is possible that Krsna can show that His Name is non-different from His form. He can reveal His divine form. He can reveal to your eternal form and service within His lila. There is so much variety and it is all contained within the passage from Srila Prabhupada's letter to Brahmarupa Prabhu that you have posted. Srila Sridhar Maharaja translated a phrase from Caitanya Caritamrta, eka bindu jagat dubaya, "one drop can inundate the entire universe, a drop of the infinite is infinite." So if you have so much of an attraction for Prabhupada's books then try to discuss what is in them. And try to give this in a positive way. The fighting and arguing over these issues is getting old and tiring. The real discussions of Krsna Consciousness are always enlivening and ever fresh like Krsna Himself.

[AncientMariner]

 

In the last few days a number of posters showed where Prabhupada himself appears to contradict the above quote. We need to get beyond semantics and harmonize the apparent contradictions. At least you must admit that once we read the books we will be taking in their content. The only content within the books is not just statements to read the books, although those statements are there within the books to encourage us to continue reading and come back tommorrow and everyday of our lives. Within the books we find the process of hearing from pure devotees glorified. We hear about the glories of the Holy Name of Krsna. We read or hear about Krsna's or Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhus pastimes. We read about the lives of the great devotees and many more topics. We are not impersonalists and everything in Prabhupada's books "is "an open secret" even the most confidential topics. "By reading daily the knowledge will be revealed to you and by this process your spiritual life will develop." Revelation from the Absolute comes down to us in the relativity of the different stages of the process of suddha bhakti. For one devotee, it is revealed that Krsna is God and that these books are non-different from Him.

On another level it is possible that Krsna can show that His Name is non-different from His form. He can reveal His divine form. He can reveal to your eternal form and service within His lila. There is so much variety and it is all contained within the passage from Srila Prabhupada's letter to Brahmarupa Prabhu that you have posted. Srila Sridhar Maharaja translated a phrase from Caitanya Caritamrta, eka bindu jagat dubaya, "one drop can inundate the entire universe, a drop of the infinite is infinite." So if you have so much of an attraction for Prabhupada's books then try to discuss what is in them. And try to give this in a positive way. The fighting and arguing over these issues is getting old and tiring. The real discussions of Krsna Consciousness are always enlivening and ever fresh like Krsna Himself.

 

 

It hasn't been my intention to fight and argue over these things. I admit I got a little harsh with the last guest and I have apologized for that but I sometimes get the sense people are trying to convince me their guru is better than Prabhupada and I admit that makes me defensive. Pretty much all I have been doing is posting Prabhupada quotes as to me they pretty much speak for themselves but if you find some other meaning or context in them then feel free to explain that meaning and I will be open to listen to you but I can't guarantee I will agree with your interpretations.

 

Now you will probably call me a Prabhupada onlyite or a ritvik or a fanatic. I don't have the hatred of ritviks that some have but I am officially neutral on the issue. I don't know anything about any other spiritual masters other than Prabhupada so I am not at all qualified to determine the standing of other spiritual masters so my official stance on that is that I wish all spiritual masters the best but the one I have most natural affection for is Prabhupada, so I don't think it is fair to call me a Prabhupada onlyite.

[Sridas]

 

In the last few days a number of posters showed where Prabhupada himself appears to contradict the above quote. We need to get beyond semantics and harmonize the apparent contradictions. At least you must admit that once we read the books we will be taking in their content. The only content within the books is not just statements to read the books, although those statements are there within the books to encourage us to continue reading and come back tommorrow and everyday of our lives. Within the books we find the process of hearing from pure devotees glorified. We hear about the glories of the Holy Name of Krsna. We read or hear about Krsna's or Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhus pastimes. We read about the lives of the great devotees and many more topics. We are not impersonalists and everything in Prabhupada's books "is "an open secret" even the most confidential topics. "By reading daily the knowledge will be revealed to you and by this process your spiritual life will develop." Revelation from the Absolute comes down to us in the relativity of the different stages of the process of suddha bhakti. For one devotee, it is revealed that Krsna is God and that these books are non-different from Him.

On another level it is possible that Krsna can show that His Name is non-different from His form. He can reveal His divine form. He can reveal to your eternal form and service within His lila. There is so much variety and it is all contained within the passage from Srila Prabhupada's letter to Brahmarupa Prabhu that you have posted. Srila Sridhar Maharaja translated a phrase from Caitanya Caritamrta, eka bindu jagat dubaya, "one drop can inundate the entire universe, a drop of the infinite is infinite." So if you have so much of an attraction for Prabhupada's books then try to discuss what is in them. And try to give this in a positive way. The fighting and arguing over these issues is getting old and tiring. The real discussions of Krsna Consciousness are always enlivening and ever fresh like Krsna Himself.

 

 

Dandavats and good advice, keep it coming,

Regarding your story of the prison guru elsewhere you rang a bell in my own experience Shakti Prabhu, funny but simultaneously tragic. In the earlier days of my devotional life I remember convincing a cousin of mine to take to Krsna consciousness, he was truly a genius in the worldly sense but also had a very strong attachment to intoxication among other habits but he did recognize the Gita as it is and did genuinely appreciate Srila Prabhupad's teachings, and also my pathetic aspirations to become a devotee but he was very gnana oriented.

As it turned out he withdrew more and more from association, and therefore took to a non practicing life, but he just couldn’t give up his philosophical conviction in Prabhupad's Gita. And was determined to preach even though he didn't practice what he preached as the books advised.

So every time we met he told me how he believed he was being used by Krsna to preach in the bars to the drunks and the most fallen. Unfortunately he ended up becoming a chronic alcoholic and addicted to other intoxicants, sadly he never did take higher association and died from liver failure. As Srila Sridara Maharaj would say "we must be careful that we don't fall from down to down."

My thoughts were that in his world he saw himself as somewhat of a guru or savior, on that turf where no devotees ventured, no one could ever challenge or question his knowledge which I know he spoke from Prabhupad’s books as at one time he was very sharp and had a brilliant recollection.

But God knows how it translated after a flagon of vino and cocktails.

So the point being is that it is mind boggling how many bogus misconceptions can come from one statement what to speak of volumes of books, unless we have a mahabhagavat God realized devotee to give confirmation of controversial issues. Your post just made me realize just how wrong we can get 'perfect knowledge' without our guardians vigilant perception, correction and affection.

I do hope Krsna and Prabhupad bless his efforts to extend to others, be they ever so misdirected. We did help give him a Krsna conscious departure ceremony.

 

I tend to see certain devotees are just like water purifiers filtering the dross of misconception from contaminating the Vaisnava environment as Srila Sridhara Maharaj's glorious ode to Srila Bhaktivinode Thakure expresses.

Whatever one may regard as the disciplic succession we must continually detect where that quintessential Truth is living. Where the dhara is flowing.

aher iva gatih premnah svabhava-kutila bhavet

i.e. the Lord of Gokul doesn't tread the same predictable path every day, His nature is whimsical, and He's been known to make a few costume changes. Yet still we need to have some reference point when so many use the scriptural injunctions to justify there position as representitive of the Truth

jivadyair abhiraksitam suka-siva-brahmadi-sammanitam

sri-radha-pada-sevanamrtam aho tad-datum iso bhavan

What was distributed by Rupa and tasted by Raghunatha was protected by Sri Jiva Goswami, who lent support to its divinity with scriptural evidence.

Here we see the need for all those guardians who are like multiple lenses in a telescopic system that clarifies the substantial and real Truth.

Through those who've gone before us and others who are presently monitoring and protecting that precious conclusion sri-radha-pada-sevanamrtam..... The ambrosia of service at the feet of Srimate Thakurani.

It is this that Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur could give and that Srila Bhaktisiddanta Saraswati Thakur came to extend and establish in the darkness of all this modern hybrid misconception that proliforates further by dint of the confusing climate of defiant controversy where the voice of authority is drowned in the quagmire of misinformed babel.

And that Srila Guru Maharaj spent much of his life guarding and clarifying what wasn't that Radha Dasyam.

[Guest guest]

The first step in solving a problem is to acknoweldge it , not sweep it under the rug. As for book distribution, what's the point if those who follow the books have nobody to go to who will encourage and guide them. That is those who distribute the books who have read them and put them into practice to the point of displaying spiritual qualities. New Dwarka distributes books but when you go there you wonder 'this is the result of following these teachings? I guess it doesn't work.'

 

 

There are many things but you've been in this movement far longer. Why don't you tell us about how we can spread the Holy Name and we can have some quality discussion rather than this worthless talk about fallen gurus.

 

Door to door book distribution, for a start

[Guest guest]

From the Upadesavali Of Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada"

 

#18 Krsna's darsan can only be attained through the medium of the ear as one hears Hari-katha from pure Vaisnavas; there is no other way.

 

 

From S.B. canto 4 chapter 9 verse 11, Sri Srimad A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada's purport:

 

PURPORT

 

The significant point in Dhruva Maharaja's statement is that he wanted the association of pure devotees.Transcendental devotional service cannot be complete and cannot be relishable without the association of devotees. We have therefore established the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. Anyone who is trying to be aloof from this Krishna Consciousness Society and yet engage in Krsna consciousness is living in a great hallucination, for this is not possible. From this statement by Dhruva Maharaja it is clear that unless one is associated with devotees, his devotional service does not mature; it does not become distinct from material activities. The Lord says, satam prasangan mama virya-samvido bhavanti hrt-karna-rasayanah (Bhag. 3.25.25). Only in the association of pure devotees can the words of Lord Krsna be fully potent and relishable to the heart and ear. Dhruva Maharaja explicitly wanted the association of devotees. That association in devotional activities is just like the waves of an incessantly flowing river. In our Krishna Consciousness Society we have full engagement twenty-four hours a day. Every moment of our time is always busily engaged in the service of the Lord. This is called the incessant flow of devotional service.

 

A Mayavadi philosopher may question us, "You may be very happy in the association of devotees, but what is your plan for crossing the ocean of material existence?" Dhruva Maharaja's answer is that it is not very difficult. He clearly says that this ocean can be crossed very easily if one simply becomes mad to hear the glories of the Lord. Bhavad-guna-katha: for anyone who persistently engages in hearing the topics of the Lord from Srimad Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam and Caitanya-caritamrta and who is actually addicted to this process, just as one becomes addicted to intoxicants, it is very easy to cross the nescience of material existence. The ocean of material nescience is compared to a blazing fire, but to a devotee this blazing fire is insignificant because he is completely absorbed in devotional service. Although the material world is blazing fire, to a devotee it appears full of pleasure (visvam purna-sukhayate).

 

The purport of this statement by Dhruva Maharaja is that devotional service in the association of devotees is the cause of the development of further devotional service. By devotional service only is one elevated to the transcendental planet Goloka Vrndavana, and there also there is only devotional service, for the activities of devotional service both in this world and in the spiritual world are one and the same. Devotional service does not change. The example of a mango can be given here. If one gets an unripe mango, it is still a mango, and when it is ripe it remains the same mango, but it has become more tasteful and relishable. Similarly, there is devotional service performed according to the direction of the spiritual master and the injunctions and regulative principles of sastra, and there is devotional service in the spiritual world, rendered directly in association with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But they are both the same. There is no change. The difference is that one stage is unripe and the other is ripe and more relishable. It is possible to mature in devotional service only in the association of devotees.

 

 

 

I certainly hope this has gotten all those fervent propagators out of their hallucinatory idea that they only need the books of the pure devotee.

[Guruvani]

 

I certainly hope this has gotten all those fervent propagators out of their hallucinatory idea that they only need the books of the pure devotee.

 

See, this is where you get into your straw-man program to create an enemy who doesn't exist and then destroy him.

 

Who is it that you see is promoting "books only"?

 

Please tell us who that is.

 

Association with devotees is vital, but that still doesn't support the vapuvadi concept that you can only get knowledge and inspiration from a guru who possesses a bag of stool.

 

Since when does a guru have to have a stool-bag to offer instruction and guidance to a disciple?

 

Please tell us who the "books only" demon is?

[AncientMariner]

 

From the Upadesavali Of Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada"

 

#18 Krsna's darsan can only be attained through the medium of the ear as one hears Hari-katha from pure Vaisnavas; there is no other way.

 

 

From S.B. canto 4 chapter 9 verse 11, Sri Srimad A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada's purport:

 

PURPORT

 

The significant point in Dhruva Maharaja's statement is that he wanted the association of pure devotees.Transcendental devotional service cannot be complete and cannot be relishable without the association of devotees. We have therefore established the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. Anyone who is trying to be aloof from this Krishna Consciousness Society and yet engage in Krsna consciousness is living in a great hallucination, for this is not possible. From this statement by Dhruva Maharaja it is clear that unless one is associated with devotees, his devotional service does not mature; it does not become distinct from material activities. The Lord says, satam prasangan mama virya-samvido bhavanti hrt-karna-rasayanah (Bhag. 3.25.25). Only in the association of pure devotees can the words of Lord Krsna be fully potent and relishable to the heart and ear. Dhruva Maharaja explicitly wanted the association of devotees. That association in devotional activities is just like the waves of an incessantly flowing river. In our Krishna Consciousness Society we have full engagement twenty-four hours a day. Every moment of our time is always busily engaged in the service of the Lord. This is called the incessant flow of devotional service.

 

A Mayavadi philosopher may question us, "You may be very happy in the association of devotees, but what is your plan for crossing the ocean of material existence?" Dhruva Maharaja's answer is that it is not very difficult. He clearly says that this ocean can be crossed very easily if one simply becomes mad to hear the glories of the Lord. Bhavad-guna-katha: for anyone who persistently engages in hearing the topics of the Lord from Srimad Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam and Caitanya-caritamrta and who is actually addicted to this process, just as one becomes addicted to intoxicants, it is very easy to cross the nescience of material existence. The ocean of material nescience is compared to a blazing fire, but to a devotee this blazing fire is insignificant because he is completely absorbed in devotional service. Although the material world is blazing fire, to a devotee it appears full of pleasure (visvam purna-sukhayate).

 

The purport of this statement by Dhruva Maharaja is that devotional service in the association of devotees is the cause of the development of further devotional service. By devotional service only is one elevated to the transcendental planet Goloka Vrndavana, and there also there is only devotional service, for the activities of devotional service both in this world and in the spiritual world are one and the same. Devotional service does not change. The example of a mango can be given here. If one gets an unripe mango, it is still a mango, and when it is ripe it remains the same mango, but it has become more tasteful and relishable. Similarly, there is devotional service performed according to the direction of the spiritual master and the injunctions and regulative principles of sastra, and there is devotional service in the spiritual world, rendered directly in association with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But they are both the same. There is no change. The difference is that one stage is unripe and the other is ripe and more relishable. It is possible to mature in devotional service only in the association of devotees.

 

 

 

I certainly hope this has gotten all those fervent propagators out of their hallucinatory idea that they only need the books of the pure devotee.

 

 

I am not sure anyone is saying you only need the books. I know I was only saying the book bhagavata and person bhagavata are identical and both or either of them are competent remedies to clear the impediments to self realization and mostly just quoting Prabhupada. What I am opposed to is you trying to dictate to me who I should associate with in Krsna Consciousness and pushing your guru on me. You are free to share your enthusiam for your guru no problem there but just because I don't necessarily want to associate with your guru it is not your right to try and cast me into hell, cast me out of Krishna Consciousness or at least that is my opinion. If Krishna wants to do that he surely is going to do that but you are not the one who gets to do that. I haven't been calling any gurus any names and have said all along I wish them the best. Best of luck.

[cbrahma]

Association of 'devotees' those who have realized what's in the books. Association is a completely different issue from initiation. It doesn't argue for living guru no more than Prabhupada did. (I don't want to have to copy those quotes again.

[Shakti-Fan]

 

What I am opposed to is you trying to dictate to me who I should associate with in Krsna Consciousness and pushing your guru on me.

I first noticed you raising this point I think about a couple of weeks ago. Everytime I see it I look at the several posts done before yours and I don't see anybody promoting a particular guru to you. What your motive is exactly its hard to determine although you obviously have an axe to grind with persons who promote their guru. It appears that the tactic you are employing is the classic "straw man argument". Here's what wikipedia says about it:

A straw man argument is a logical fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent. A straw-man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it is in fact misleading, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.

Its name is derived from the practice of using straw men in combat training. In such training, a scarecrow is made in the image of the enemy with the single intent of attacking it.<sup id="_ref-0" class="reference">[1]</sup> It is occasionally called a straw dog fallacy<sup id="_ref-1" class="reference">[2]</sup> or a scarecrow argument.

[AncientMariner]

 

I first noticed you raising this point I think about a couple of weeks ago. Everytime I see it I look at the several posts done before yours and I don't see anybody promoting a particular guru to you. What your motive is exactly its hard to determine although you obviously have an axe to grind with persons who promote their guru. It appears that the tactic you are employing is the classic "straw man argument". Here's what wikipedia says about it:

A straw man argument is a logical fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent. A straw-man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it is in fact misleading, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.

Its name is derived from the practice of using straw men in combat training. In such training, a scarecrow is made in the image of the enemy with the single intent of attacking it.<SUP class=reference id=_ref-0>[1]</SUP> It is occasionally called a straw dog fallacy<SUP class=reference id=_ref-1>[2]</SUP> or a scarecrow argument.

 

 

I apologize if that is how you see it and I admit I am probably paranoid that people are trying to push their version of guru on me. Best of luck.

[cbrahma]

Nobody has ever tried to push their guru on me. They just look down their noses at my not being initiated. A condition they are quite content with and I am content not to change.

[AncientMariner]

 

Nobody has ever tried to push their guru on me. They just look down their noses at my not being initiated. A condition they are quite content with and I am content not to change.

 

Obviously initiation doesn't solve everthing otherwise why did people that were initiated with spiritual names and everything end up committing the abuses they did in Iskcon. So there must be more to initiation than just some ritualistic ceremony and giving of a name.

[AncientMariner]

 

Nobody has ever tried to push their guru on me. They just look down their noses at my not being initiated. A condition they are quite content with and I am content not to change.

 

Well I guess you can't be initiated by Prabhupada anymore so I guess I am going to have to wait for the next self effulgent acarya to come along.

[cbrahma]

If you favor initiation, that's the only way to go. I for one do not need a human master.

 

 

Well I guess you can't be initiated by Prabhupada anymore so I guess I am going to have to wait for the next self effulgent acarya to come along.

[AncientMariner]

 

If you favor initiation, that's the only way to go. I for one do not need a human master.

 

 

Personally I like the version of initiation where initiation is when spritual knowledge is transfered from the master to the disciple. I hope to get that kind of initiation someday not really interested in any of these other versions of initiation.

[Shakti-Fan]

 

Well I guess you can't be initiated by Prabhupada anymore so I guess I am going to have to wait for the next self effulgent acarya to come along.

I see the smile symbol and I know that you are not completely serious. But how do you know you would recognize a self effulgent acarya if you saw or heard him? Self effulgence is like beauty, its in the eye of the beholder.

[AncientMariner]

 

I see the smile symbol and I know that you are not completely serious. But how do you know you would recognize a self effulgent acarya if you saw or heard him? Self effulgence is like beauty, its in the eye of the beholder.

 

 

Thanks for the psychoanalysis. It was even free of charge.

[theist]

 

.... But how do you know you would recognize a self effulgent acarya if you saw or heard him? Self effulgence is like beauty, its in the eye of the beholder.

This should not be a question for such an experienced devotee as yourself Shakti-fan so I take as rhetorical.

 

Caitya-guru reveals His own external manifestation. He gives the divine eyes to perceive the divinity of His devotee. There is no other way. If Krsna does not reveal His devotee then we have no way to truly perceive Him.

[Guest guest]

I would like to share that in my opinion there are at least two good things about at least one ISKCON temple.

 

How I view ISKCON in general is: it is sort of like a a spiritual fast food franchise, i.e. you know that you are going to get a certain type of product there and individual franchises may have certain unique attributes. It may even help some individuals in an emergency situation.

 

Here is one good thing about at least one ISKCON temple: in one community there is a federal and state funded program to help homeless people. This program publishes a newsletter that tells you where you can get a free meal each and every day of the week. Guess what? ISKCON is one of the very few and rare programs in that community providing a meal to anyone who wants one at least 3x a week.

 

I am very proud of this as ISKCON is probably less than 0.005% of the population where this temple exists. I would like to say God bless the devotees who do this and who finance it. God bless ACBSP for setting it up. I think it is very nice and I don't see any other Gaudiya groups doing this in that newsletter. I feel happy that this is being done. I think it is wonderful.

 

Some people enjoy ranting about how bad ISKCON is but I ask you this: are you feeding whoever wants food in your community yourself at least 3x a week? If you are, only then do I think you are in a position to do a blanket critique of ISKCON; but if not then I would like to see your action plan how you propose to provide vegetarian meals for the 10,000 homeless people in the area that at least one ISKCON temple services three times a week to make up for the incompetence of the State and County and federal programs.

 

The second thing that I appreciate about ISKCON is that I know one grieving mother her son committed suicide and no one would do a funeral service for her son as they did not belong to any church, synogogue, or temple. The mother was almost insane from grief and that no clergyperson in her area would do a final blessing for her son was magnifying her grief by 1000x.

 

Someone suggested to this lady to call ISKCON temple and the person who spent the most hours of their time counselling this lady, all of the relatives, as well as assisting the priest to perform the yajna was a volunteer lay member of the congregation uninitiated by any guru and no spiritual name or anything who has the total respect and admiration of many initiated devotees: disciples of ACBSP as well as many other gurus including GM.

 

So if you say that people look down their nose at you, I am wondering exactly what kinds of things you are doing, or perhaps not doing, that would cause people to perceive you that way. In my experience, if you are a quiet, helpful and kind all-around nice person who looks for the good in others and tries to encourage the religious sentiment in man regardless of camp then usually not every single person in the world looks down at such people. I've found that usually the nice people who quietly do good things think that other people who are also quietly doing helpful and kind things are nice.

 

I just wanted to say at least two things that I have experienced are nice about ISKCON. I think it is set up somewhat like a fast food franchise. Fast food franchises have their place, like I have travelled with senior devotees including sannyasis in foreign countries and sometimes because there is no other place open and the sannyasis/ devotees had not eaten in a long time they had to eat milkshake or something from a fast food restaurant. So I have seen that even a fast food place has its place.

 

When we are all sophisto and advanced then perhaps we no longer wish to eat at fast food place. Maybe we only want to have the $58 Vegetarian Kaiseki dinner at Sugiyama NYC, which requires advance reservations. Or maybe we only want our private chef to prepare a vegan raw foods meal for us on our private yacht or in our private jet because Madonna and Guy, Trudie and Sting are coming over for dinner.

 

Still, even those who can afford private jet may appreciate fast food in an emergency situation or with nostalgia as a teen rite of passage. Others learn how to pick the right fast food place and/or things on the menu. So too with ISKCON, some people learn the art of how to engage with it in such a way as they do not make themselves ill from it. Still it is your right to even protest ISKCON the same way as some people make film like Supersize Me! or write a book Fast Food Nation or make a documentary McLibel.

 

All of this is your right, I would just like to point out at least two good things about ISKCON: at least one temple that I know of regularly feeds vegetarian meals to the homeless and hungry for decades now and at least one temple that I know of once helped someone that no one else would help. Hare Krsna!

[gHari]

Effulgent is not a mystery. The sun is effulgent. Can anyone not see that? In the seventies, everyone was effulgent.

[Sridas]

I thought they were all just stoned seeing everyone else as beautiful:)

I don't think they look for beauty anymore.

What Happened?

[Guest guest]

 

I thought they were all just stoned seeing everyone else as beautiful:)

I don't think they look for beauty anymore.

What Happened?

Not having the association of a higher Vaisnava who sets the example by "seeing everyone else as beautiful".

[gHari]

I should have said that all temple devotees were effulgent. It was Srila Prabhupada's effulgence. He was the self-effulgent one.