presence and diksa

[theist 1]

 

Effulgent is not a mystery. The sun is effulgent. Can anyone not see that? In the seventies, everyone was effulgent.

 

Really folks. It is as simple as gHari states. Quit making an unsolvable mystery out of the obvious.

 

With material eyes we can observed the sun and it's sunlight.

 

With divine eyes we perceive the effulgence of the acarya, God's representative.

 

Where to get spiritual eyes? Krsna gave Arjuna divine eyes to see His universal form. In the same way Krsna grants the eyes to see His devotee. There is no other way.

 

Of course we all have problems adjusting to this spiritual vision. Like walking out of the total darkness of a cave into the high noon sunlight. But even then we perceive the effulgence as effulgence and would never consider it darkness like in the cave. That adjusting period is the kanista stage which will lead to the uttama stage unless we crawl back into the cave for some reason.

[Guruvani 0]

Self-effulgent means self-manifested.

It doesn't mean that the person glows like a light bulb or gives off visible light.

The light that a self-effulgent spiritual master gives off is the light of spiritual knowledge. That light is not visible to the naked eye but is visible to the soul through sound.

 

The light that the spiritual master gives off is not seen with material eyes.

It is appreciated by the eyes of the soul in the form of enLIGHTenment.

 

Self-effulgent means self-manifested.

Spiritual masters are not elected or appointed.

They are self-manifested in the giving off the light of spiritual knowledge.

 

I don't know of any acharya or spiritual master in modern times that has been said to give off visible light to the naked eye.

[Kulapavana 0]

even here, on this impersonal internet site, some posters shine like diamonds by the virtue of the obvious wisdom in their posts. they are the self-effulgent lot

 

others, like me, just try to imitate them.

[cbrahma 0]

There must be direct experience. The final authority must be internal otherwise cheaters are empowered.

 

 

even here, on this impersonal internet site, some posters shine like diamonds by the virtue of the obvious wisdom in their posts. they are the self-effulgent lot

 

others, like me, just try to imitate them.

[Kulapavana 0]

 

There must be direct experience. The final authority must be internal otherwise cheaters are empowered.

 

yes, to his disciples Prabhupada was a self-effulgent acharya. and even his Godbrothers eventually saw him in that light when he came back to India with his western disciples. some of them commented that they have noticed some profound change in him.

[Guest guest]

Thank you prabhu. Judging by what I've gleaned from your posts in the past, I think you're already doing some nice service. The objective should be to follow in the footsteps of devotees such as yourself.

 

There are many great vaisnavas, not just in the ISKCON camp, but in other camps such as the ones that you have mentioned. The vision of the ritviks & the Prabhupada-only'ites is much too narrow for my liking. May anyone, regardless of which camp, engaged in the service of the Lord be empowered to carry forward His mission.

 

 

yes, I very much agree with that. that is why I am ready to cooperate with any Vaishnava group that actually serves in the spreading of Mahaprabhu's mission, not merely engaging in turf wars. I see many qualified Vaishnavas in all the camps: Iskcon, SCSM, Narayana Maharaja's group, and I'm sure great preaching is a reality. We just need more of it - more preaching, less infighting.

 

I dont care what your idea of diksha may be, as long as you are doing actual service for Mahaprabhu's mission.

 

It is mind boggling to me that such a simple idea like diksha can morph into such a controversy among Prabhupada's followers

[Guest guest]

Thank you and no offence taken.

 

As regards you point about exploitation, how can the association be genuine Vaisnava association if there is exploitation and control? I was referrring to the association with sincere devotees who by their very definition have nothing to do with exploitation & control but whose sole purpose is to ensure our deliverance from the material world.

 

 

I don't mean to be so harsh on you bro and there is nothing wrong with devotee association just as long as it isn't exploitation and control etc. if you know what I mean. best of luck and sorry if I am too harsh.

[Guest guest]

But have you elevated yourself beyond the modes of material nature? I mean ... whilst impure ourselves, we want to identify and fix other problems?

 

And also ... according to some on this forum, books are enough to deliver a person! So why worry about "what's the point if those who follow the books have nobody to go to who will encourage and guide them" ?!!!

 

What's wrong with New Dwarka? can you give some details?

 

 

The first step in solving a problem is to acknoweldge it , not sweep it under the rug. As for book distribution, what's the point if those who follow the books have nobody to go to who will encourage and guide them. That is those who distribute the books who have read them and put them into practice to the point of displaying spiritual qualities. New Dwarka distributes books but when you go there you wonder 'this is the result of following these teachings? I guess it doesn't work.'

[Kulapavana 0]

 

May anyone, regardless of which camp, engaged in the service of the Lord be empowered to carry forward His mission.

 

He is the embodiment of all rasa. Why would He enjoy just one flavor?

 

The malpura devotees should not criticize the rasa-gula devotees and should not see themselves superior. After all, we are all just straw on the street, aren't we?

 

He empowered prophets like Jesus and Muhammad. Why would he not empower devotees in another branch of Lord Chaitanya's tree?

 

This constant bickering is quite distracting to existing devotees and very discouraging to newcomers. Each one of us should look at our own behavior and at least be kind and polite to ALL Vaishnavas.

 

The real problem is lack of humility. We rarely see ourself as insignificant straw on the street.

[Guest guest]

I have to agree with Shakti-fan. Where ins this thread or any other thread has someone tried to convince you that his guru is better than yours? I just don't see any such posts.

 

Most devotees go with the established parampara system of seeking out a genuine Guru. The ritviks should just stay out of that and not try to disrupt it. They're free to stick to their philosophy.

 

 

I sometimes get the sense people are trying to convince me their guru is better than Prabhupada and I admit that makes me defensive.

 

Now you will probably call me a Prabhupada onlyite or a ritvik or a fanatic. I don't have the hatred of ritviks that some have but I am officially neutral on the issue. I don't know anything about any other spiritual masters other than Prabhupada so I am not at all qualified to determine the standing of other spiritual masters so my official stance on that is that I wish all spiritual masters the best but the one I have most natural affection for is Prabhupada, so I don't think it is fair to call me a Prabhupada onlyite.