A question on Krishna and Shiva

[Guruvani 0]

 

All Vedic literature agrees that Kṛṣṇa is the source of Brahmā, Śiva and all other demigods. In the Atharva Veda (Gopāla-tāpanī Upaniṣad 1.24) it is said, yo brahmāṇaḿ vidadhāti pūrvaḿ yo vai vedāḿś ca gāpayati sma kṛṣṇaḥ: "It was Kṛṣṇa who in the beginning instructed Brahmā in Vedic knowledge and who disseminated Vedic knowledge in the past."

 

 

Nārāyaṇa Upaniṣad (1) says, atha puruṣo ha vai nārāyaṇo 'kāmayata prajāḥ sṛjeyeti: "Then the Supreme Personality Nārāyaṇa desired to create living entities." The Upaniṣad continues, nārāyaṇād brahmā jāyate, nārāyaṇād prajāpatiḥ prajāyate, nārāyaṇād indro jāyate, nārāyaṇād aṣṭau vasavo jāyante, nārāyaṇād ekādaśa rudrā jāyante, nārāyaṇād dvādaśādityāḥ: "From Nārāyaṇa, Brahmā is born, and from Nārāyaṇa the patriarchs are also born. From Nārāyaṇa, Indra is born, from Nārāyaṇa the eight Vasus are born, from Nārāyaṇa the eleven Rudras are born, from Nārāyaṇa the twelve Ādityas are born." This Nārāyaṇa is an expansion of Kṛṣṇa.

 

 

It is said in the same Vedas, brahmaṇyo devakī-putraḥ: "The son of Devakī, Kṛṣṇa, is the Supreme Personality." (Nārāyaṇa Upaniṣad 4) Then it is said, eko vai nārāyaṇa āsīn na brahmā na īśāno nāpo nāgni-samau neme dyāv-āpṛthivī na nakṣatrāṇi na sūryaḥ: "In the beginning of the creation there was only the Supreme Personality Nārāyaṇa. There was no Brahmā, no Śiva, no water, no fire, no moon, no stars in the sky, no sun." (Mahā Upaniṣad 1) In the Mahā Upaniṣad it is also said that Lord Śiva was born from the forehead of the Supreme Lord. Thus the Vedas say that it is the Supreme Lord, the creator of Brahmā and Śiva, who is to be worshiped.

In the Mokṣa-dharma Kṛṣṇa also says,

prajāpatiḿ ca rudraḿ cāpy

aham eva sṛjāmi vai

tau hi māḿ na vijānīto

mama māyā-vimohitau

"The patriarchs, Śiva and others are created by Me, though they do not know that they are created by Me because they are deluded by My illusory energy." In the Varāha Purāṇa it is also said,

nārāyaṇaḥ paro devas

tasmāj jātaś caturmukhaḥ

tasmād rudro 'bhavad devaḥ

sa ca sarva-jñatāḿ gataḥ

"Nārāyaṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and from Him Brahmā was born, from whom Śiva was born."

Lord Kṛṣṇa is the source of all generations, and He is called the most efficient cause of everything. He says, "Because everything is born of Me, I am the original source of all. Everything is under Me; no one is above Me." There is no supreme controller other than Kṛṣṇa. One who understands Kṛṣṇa in such a way from a bona fide spiritual master, with references from Vedic literature, engages all his energy in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and becomes a truly learned man. In comparison to him, all others, who do not know Kṛṣṇa properly, are but fools. Only a fool would consider Kṛṣṇa to be an ordinary man. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person should not be bewildered by fools; he should avoid all unauthorized commentaries and interpretations on Bhagavad-gītā and proceed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness with determination and firmness.

 

[Bishadi 0]

As the singularity in total includes time then all mass and time is God.

It is the isolation of renditions that cause the isolations from the ‘total’ conscious. Be the fools who retain complacency withstanding truth.

The birth is of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, same as any who ever walked, but unless standing in full view, none have existed unless by the simulation of men in descriptions.

To know the ‘total’ as God allows knowledge to evolve by exploring the many renditions all based from the ‘time’ existing. The truth of comprehension is by identifying the ‘total’ represented by the rendition of many in time.

The responsibility to the <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> conscious, is in recognizing that what is being said is the collective conscious is what creates the beginning of existence itself.

So basically we are here now standing based from an event, ‘collective conscious’ which has not even occurred.

And in every sect or faith of belief, most all have suggested a period when the truth will walk.

Guess who?

Ask questions but please my brothers of Love, Peace is the destination, find the road but only One has the truth and until Understanding is released; ask the questions all our brothers may wish to comprehend.

Be pure and know the truth, be the fool who doubts without conscious thought; Love.

Please, put up the test…. As even Srila knew the coming change would remove the need of religion and rituals …

Test me all you like but know the truth walks as the covenant is simply a thanks for being alive.

[Guest guest]

 

All Vedic literature agrees that Kṛṣṇa is the source of Brahmā, Śiva and all other demigods. In the Atharva Veda (Gopāla-tāpanī Upaniṣad 1.24) it is said, yo brahmāṇaḿ vidadhāti pūrvaḿ yo vai vedāḿś ca gāpayati sma kṛṣṇaḥ: "It was Kṛṣṇa who in the beginning instructed Brahmā in Vedic knowledge and who disseminated Vedic knowledge in the past."

 

Anyone claiming Lord Shiva to be a mere "DemiGod" is not worthy of any association, but despise!! Lord Shiva is NOT a DemiGod period!!

[Bishadi 0]

Wow ... the amount of names for God yet, God is no demi or anything god.

 

All things, all time; the total is God. The collective conscious began the whole existance. Comprehend this and know the truth which means contribute, not comply, just to be accepted.

[Guruvani 0]

 

Anyone claiming Lord Shiva to be a mere "DemiGod" is not worthy of any association, but despise!! Lord Shiva is NOT a DemiGod period!!

 

"From Nārāyaṇa, Brahmā is born, and from Nārāyaṇa the patriarchs are also born. From Nārāyaṇa, Indra is born, from Nārāyaṇa the eight Vasus are born, from Nārāyaṇa the eleven Rudras are born, from Nārāyaṇa the twelve Ādityas are born."

It's obvious that Narayana is the creator of Siva.

It is Vedic siddhanta.

So, in the way Srila Prabhupada translates, there must be a way to distinguish between the Parama-purusha and the gods he created.

So, there is nothing wrong with refering to these subordinate gods as demigods.

It helps eliminate the poly-theism that so many Hindus have wrongly been accepting for thousands of years.

Vedic Dharma is monotheistic- not polytheistic and Narayana or Lord Krishna is supreme above Siva, Indra and Brahma.

It is the Vedic siddhanta, despite what the Shaivas wrongly say about Siva being Supreme.

Siva is only supreme in Siva Purana etc., but in the Vedic Upanisads Lord Krishna or Lord Narayana is supreme.

Narayana is a form of Krishna for Vaikuntha.

[Guest guest]

 

It's obvious that Narayana is the creator of Siva.

It is Vedic siddhanta.

So, in the way Srila Prabhupada translates, there must be a way to distinguish between the Parama-purusha and the gods he created.

So, there is nothing wrong with refering to these subordinate gods as demigods.

It helps eliminate the poly-theism that so many Hindus have wrongly been accepting for thousands of years.

Vedic Dharma is monotheistic- not polytheistic and Narayana or Lord Krishna is supreme above Siva, Indra and Brahma.

It is the Vedic siddhanta, despite what the Shaivas wrongly say about Siva being Supreme.

Siva is only supreme in Siva Purana etc., but in the Vedic Upanisads Lord Krishna or Lord Narayana is supreme.

Narayana is a form of Krishna for Vaikuntha.

 

oh please...

 

All this is Gaudiya philosophy from Bengal. Mainstream Vaishnava groups will reject most of what you have written.

 

None of the ten major Upanishads cite Hari by name as the supreme. Narayana and Krishna are never mentioned at any point. The Supreme Brahman is interpreted as Vishnu by Vaishnavas and Shiva by Shaivas and each side provides ample justifications - take it or leave it.

 

Stop trying to project your Bengali concepts as applicable to the entire world. They most certainly are not.

 

Cheers

[Guruvani 0]

 

oh please...

 

All this is Gaudiya philosophy from Bengal.

 

Not at all that is your ignorance.

The Vedas and the Upanisads were around long before there was Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

The Vedas and the Upanishads pronounce Krishna and Narayana as supreme.

 

These Vedas are more original than your Siva Samhita that was tampered with by rishi Romaharsana Suta.

 

It is not Gaudiya only.

It is Vedic.

[Guest guest]

 

Not at all that is your ignorance.

The Vedas and the Upanisads were around long before there was Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

The Vedas and the Upanishads pronounce Krishna and Narayana as supreme.

 

These Vedas are more original than your Siva Samhita that was tampered with by rishi Romaharsana Suta.

 

It is not Gaudiya only.

It is Vedic.

 

It is also a widespread Gaudiya Bengali practice of passing their own versions of scriptures and point of view as "vedic". In the Shiv Swayamvara with Pravati Brahma performs the Yagya ceremony as the purohit and asks for Lord Shiva's 'Gotra'. He asks who is Shiva's father. Shiva says, it is him - Lord Brahma. Then Lord Brahma asks, who is his grandfather, Shiva says its Vishnu and then he asks who is his great grandfather, Shiva says I myself! And most Vaishnava scriptures translate this up to the Vishnu part only. Shiva is Adi-anadi! He has no birth and no ending. If Shiva Samhita was "tampered" then Bhagwatam is more than tampered and still some more shlokas added to the last chapter by the BBT. What about Nectar of Devotion and Chaitanya Charitamrita? They are no scriptures. I've read Nectar of Devotion where Srila P. mentions yogis as materialists concentrating on material parts of their body viz - Muladhara and swadhishthan chakras (large and small intestines)!!! No where does the lower chakras correspond to intestines, nor are the chakras a material concept. Anyways, the point is Bengali Gaudiyas do not represent Lord Shiva in the right light. Reject Shiv Purana and Shivas glory. And when tackled, say that they do respect him etc. But they never visit Shiva temple or glorify him properly.

[Guest guest]

 

Not at all that is your ignorance.

The Vedas and the Upanisads were around long before there was Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

The Vedas and the Upanishads pronounce Krishna and Narayana as supreme.

These Vedas are more original than your Siva Samhita that was tampered with by rishi Romaharsana Suta.

It is not Gaudiya only.

It is Vedic.

 

How many Vedas do the Gaudiyas study? All they study is Bhagwatam and CC mainly. Do you even study Rigveda?, Yajurveda. Do you study Samveda?

[Guruvani 0]

 

How many Vedas do the Gaudiyas study? All they study is Bhagwatam and CC mainly. Do you even study Rigveda?, Yajurveda. Do you study Samveda?

The disciples of Mahaprabhu studied all the Vedas and extracted the essence of the Vedas and added many Vedic verses in the commentaries and books.

 

Jiva Goswami, Rupa Goswami, Gopal Bhatta Goswami, Sanatan Goswami and many other followers of Sri Caitanya studied the Vedas and took the essential verses that establish the supreme absolute truth.

 

there are many quotes and Vedic verses in the Gaudiya shastra.

 

the followers of Mahaprabhu studied all the Vedas.

[Guest guest]

 

The disciples of Mahaprabhu studied all the Vedas and extracted the essence of the Vedas and added many Vedic verses in the commentaries and books.

 

Jiva Goswami, Rupa Goswami, Gopal Bhatta Goswami, Sanatan Goswami and many other followers of Sri Caitanya studied the Vedas and took the essential verses that establish the supreme absolute truth.

 

there are many quotes and Vedic verses in the Gaudiya shastra.

 

the followers of Mahaprabhu studied all the Vedas.

 

What was the need to extract? Yes they took the versus that they thought were essential to their line of philosophy only and left the other parts. And this is the key to understanding gaudiya culture. They didn't take the complete picture. For example a place where Narayan was being glorified, they took it. Where Shiva was being glorified, they ignored it! And further translated and purported it again from their own perspective and in their own light. That's why they had to do all this work of taking out the verses and remodeling, retranslating, re-purporting and re publishing them. And this holds true to any scripture they have published. Bhagwatam - where Brahma hails Shiva as Supreme controller is ignored. Where he glorifies Krsna, is repeated again and again. Same is true for Padma Purana. Almost all Scriptures glorifying Lord Shiva are declared as either "tempered", "Fabricated", "tamsik" or non-authoritative"!! This is well known stance.

[Guruvani 0]

 

What was the need to extract? Yes they took the versus that they thought were essential to their line of philosophy only and left the other parts.

 

So you are saying that in one place the Vedas say that Narayana or Krishna is supreme and somewhere says something different?

 

No, the Vedas aren't like that.

The Vedas are consistent.

They don't contradict themselves.

They all agree on the same thing that Narayana/Krishna is supreme and the creator of Siva, Brahma and all the devatas.

 

In Jnana-kanda Siva is supreme.

In karma-kanda Brahma or Lord Indra is supreme.

In Upasana-kanda Lord Vishnu is supreme.

 

Upasana means the closet and purest knowledge.

Upanisad means "to come closer".

 

The closest to God is Upasana-kanda - Vishnu bhakti.

[Guest guest]

 

So you are saying that in one place the Vedas say that Narayana or Krishna is supreme and somewhere says something different?

 

No, the Vedas aren't like that.

The Vedas are consistent.

They don't contradict themselves.

They all agree on the same thing that Narayana/Krishna is supreme and the creator of Siva, Brahma and all the devatas.

 

In Jnana-kanda Siva is supreme.

In karma-kanda Brahma or Lord Indra is supreme.

In Upasana-kanda Lord Vishnu is supreme.

 

Upasana means the closet and purest knowledge.

Upanisad means "to come closer".

 

The closest to God is Upasana-kanda - Vishnu bhakti.

 

oh really??? then Do you accept Samveda?

And are you by any chance trying to suggest that Shiv upasana is NOT upasana and is not 'close' enough or 'pure' enough??

[Guruvani 0]

 

oh really??? then Do you accept Samveda?

And are you by any chance trying to suggest that Shiv upasana is NOT upasana and is not 'close' enough or 'pure' enough??

then please tell us what is the sambhanda jnana, abhideya and prayojan tattva of Siva Bhakti?

 

I have always wanted to know what is that in the Shaivism.

 

Siva Bhakti must contain these three aspects or it has no siddhanta.

So, please explain to us what is this all about in Shaivism.

[Guest guest]

 

then please tell us what is the sambhanda jnana, abhideya and prayojan tattva of Siva Bhakti?

 

I have always wanted to know what is that in the Shaivism.

 

Siva Bhakti must contain these three aspects or it has no siddhanta.

So, please explain to us what is this all about in Shaivism.

 

Did the great Bhakta of Lord Shiva Kannapa care of this siddhanta terminology? Still he was one of the greatest shiv bhakta!! The Gaudiyas cooked up these terminologies to fog up the masses n establish their authority!

Did Raskhan or Mira Bai discuss these too? Did Radha or any of the other Gopies who got Krsna's bhakti prema discuss these? Nope. Who is discussing this? We know! And did Krsna or Rama appear before them? nope! But they are keeping the various organizations listening to them through these fundas is all. IN order to have pure bhakti, these intricate definitions of these terms are not important.

[Guest guest]

 

then please tell us what is the sambhanda jnana, abhideya and prayojan tattva of Siva Bhakti?

 

I have always wanted to know what is that in the Shaivism.

 

Siva Bhakti must contain these three aspects or it has no siddhanta.

So, please explain to us what is this all about in Shaivism.

 

Besides you are not in the least interested in Shiva Bhakti. You are interested in Shiva showing off as a mere demiGod n bashing most Shiva Bhaktas on a forum.

If you want pure bhakti, why bother about definitions, classifications and politics?

[Guruvani 0]

 

Besides you are not in the least interested in Shiva Bhakti. You are interested in Shiva showing off as a mere demiGod n bashing most Shiva Bhaktas on a forum.

If you want pure bhakti, why bother about definitions, classifications and politics?

 

in other words you are just sentimentalist and you don't know Shaiva siddhanta and the proper doctrines of Shaivism - the relationship, the means to the end or the ultimate perfection of Shiva Bhakti.

[Guest guest]

 

in other words you are just sentimentalist and you don't know Shaiva siddhanta and the proper doctrines of Shaivism - the relationship, the means to the end or the ultimate perfection of Shiva Bhakti.

 

Yes you can imply the word 'Sentimentalist' to pure bhakti since putting down people is your agenda - sentimentalist like Mirabai, or Kanappa, or Raskhan or Radha. But not like someone who impounded doctrines after doctrines to all called himself Prabhupada and others as rascals, but never attained the perfection of Shiva Bhakti! Nor did Lord Krsna appear before him as he did for Mira Bai or as Lord Shiva appeared before Kanappa or as Lord Sri Rama appeared before Sri Goswami Tulsidas!

[Guest guest]

 

then please tell us what is the sambhanda jnana, abhideya and prayojan tattva of Siva Bhakti?

 

I have always wanted to know what is that in the Shaivism.

 

Siva Bhakti must contain these three aspects or it has no siddhanta.

So, please explain to us what is this all about in Shaivism.

 

Ok. Here it goes for your knowledge. In short:

Sambandha Gyan is knowledge of one’s original relation with Shiva

Sambandha-jnana or knowledge of the eternal connection between the Lord and his energies.. The sruti points out abhideya, which is the means to achieve prayojana, the supreme goal.. Abhideya is devotional service

.

.... The nine limbs of devotional service are: hearing, chanting, remembering, worshiping, praying, rendering service, carrying out the orders of the Lord, being a friend of the Lord and completely surrendering to the Lord.. The chanting of the holy name is an important devotional activity, and for this reason the Vedas glorify the chanting of the syllable OM.. Devotional service (sadhanabhakti) has two divisions: vaidhi and raga.. Abhideya, the ninefold process of sadhanabhakti, is the eighth prameya.

.

Prayojana is Shivaprema

.

.... By the mercy of Lord Shiva, the jiva who takes shelter of abhideya will attain Shivaprema or love of Godhead.. Shiva prema is the prayojana (necessity and ultimate goal) of the jiva; it is the ninth prameya.

But Shiv sadhna also contains more than that. Yogis meditating on Lord Shiva through the yogic processes of Kriya are far more superior than mere sankirtana process. Since its a process of a much higher order. Here yogis develop higher realms of bhakti and prema while realizing their original position and relationship with the Lord in transcendental state of being or samadhi. Lord Shiva in Shiv Samhita says this yoga should be given to a bhakta, which emphasizes bhaktis importance. But the yoga of bhakti and Kriya can be given to a bhakta to attain the highest order and mukti.

[Guest guest]

 

in other words you are just sentimentalist and you don't know Shaiva siddhanta and the proper doctrines of Shaivism - the relationship, the means to the end or the ultimate perfection of Shiva Bhakti.

 

Here something on Prameya. You may notice however, that the Prameya is may appear similar to the understanding of prameya in Krishna bhakti too.

 

The first of the nine prameyas is that Shiva, is the only Supreme Absolute Truth.. The second is that He is omnipotent.. The third is that He is Rasamurti, the embodiment of all spiritual mellows.. He is the source of bliss for all living entities and He eternally resides in His abode in the spiritual sky.. These first three teaching pertain to the Supreme Lord, Shiva.

.

The second three pertain to the position of the jiva

..................

.... The fourth prameya is that the jiva is the Lord's separated part and parcel.. The jivas are the infintesimal eternal spiritual sparks of pure consciousness who comprise the innumerable living entities.. The jiva is of two types: eternally conditioned, who populate the material world, and eternally liberated, who populate the spiritual world..

.

..... The fifth prameya is that the conditioned souls are enamored by the glitter of maya's illusory potency. They have forgotten Shiva and remain eternally in this phenomenal world, enjoying and suffering material existence..

.

..... The sixth prameya is that the eternally liberated jivas are associates of Lord Shiva.. They reside in the spiritual world and enjoy transcendental loving relationships with the Lord.. These three, then, are the teachings about the jiva found in the sruti.

.

The seventh prameya is the position of the Lord Shiva over and beyond all the three gunas of material energy. That he is the wielder of Maya and all three gunas but himself is not affected by them.

.

.... Everything material and spiritual is under his control.. The jivas and matter are inconceivably manifested from Lord Shiva's internal potency. Once knowing this, the jiva understands that he is the servant of Shiva and is like the spark or ray of the spiritual sun that is Shiva..

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..... The transformations of the Lord's energy are beyond the mind's grasp (acintya), says the sruti. But the socalled transformations of the Supreme Lord Himself that some propounders of Bengali schools would like to have us all believe in are only mischievious and offensive postulations.

.

.... Thus, so far, the above seven prameyas comprise sambandha-jyan or knowledge of the eternal connection between the Lord and his energies.. The sruti further points out abhideya, which is the means to acheive prayojana, the supreme goal.. Abhideya is devotional service

.

.... The nine limbs of devotional service are: hearing, chanting, remembering, worshiping, praying, rendering service, carrying out the orders of the Lord, being a friend of the Lord and completely surrendering to the Lord.. The chanting of the holy name is the most important devotional activity, and for this reason the Vedas glorify the chanting of the syllable om.. Devotional service (sadhanabhakti) has two divisions: vaidhi and raga.. Abhideya, the ninefold process of sadhanabhakti, is the eighth prameya.

[Guest guest]

 

It's obvious that Narayana is the creator of Siva.

It is Vedic siddhanta.

So, in the way Srila Prabhupada translates, there must be a way to distinguish between the Parama-purusha and the gods he created.

So, there is nothing wrong with refering to these subordinate gods as demigods.

It helps eliminate the poly-theism that so many Hindus have wrongly been accepting for thousands of years.

Vedic Dharma is monotheistic- not polytheistic and Narayana or Lord Krishna is supreme above Siva, Indra and Brahma.

It is the Vedic siddhanta, despite what the Shaivas wrongly say about Siva being Supreme.

Siva is only supreme in Siva Purana etc., but in the Vedic Upanisads Lord Krishna or Lord Narayana is supreme.

Narayana is a form of Krishna for Vaikuntha.

Krishna is Narayan manifested as Krishna. And this Krishna worships Shiva!

Narayana is not any creator of Shiva. This is not Vedic siddhanta. this is Gaudiya interpretation and understanding of Vedic Siddhanta. I think the Bengali sects should remain limited to themselves alone, rather then covering up and trying to represent the Vedas as a whole with their own limited thinking. They are doing a nice job with their own interpretations and representations of Bhagwatam and Chaitanya Charitamrita. What's the need to go into vedas?

[Guest guest]

Every fortnight, Guruvani picks up on a Shiva bashing thread and relentlessly pours his Hare Krishna nonsense on everyone.

 

It is best people ignore him on this topic.

[Guest guest]

 

Every fortnight, Guruvani picks up on a Shiva bashing thread and relentlessly pours his Hare Krishna nonsense on everyone.

 

It is best people ignore him on this topic.

 

LOL! Well said guestabc!!!

[Guest guest]

 

Every fortnight, Guruvani picks up on a Shiva bashing thread and relentlessly pours his Hare Krishna nonsense on everyone.

 

It is best people ignore him on this topic.

 

 

Yes GURUVANI is ignorant and trying to divide Hinduism with his monotheistic views,GURUVANI go read my posting about Ganapathi and realize your knowledge(or lack there of)is totally wrong and you do sound like know all been there type,i appreciate the fact that despite not being born in India(as per your picture in profile i presume you are a american) you try to be a Hindu,but you are just a ISKCONI and not a Hindu,dont dare to comment on our gods and make them look inferior to Krsna,if you like Krsna be it,but you got no right to call Shiva inferior,what do you know of Hinduism if you talk this way?

Be happy you are not in India,if you talk this way there then ShivSena will punish you so much that even your Krsna cant help you.

If you want Monotheism go back to your Christian religion again,please leave Hindus alone...We are tired of your Shiva Bashing.

[Guest guest]

 

Yes GURUVANI is ignorant and trying to divide Hinduism with his monotheistic views,GURUVANI go read my posting about Ganapathi and realize your knowledge(or lack there of)is totally wrong and you do sound like know all been there type,i appreciate the fact that despite not being born in India(as per your picture in profile i presume you are a american) you try to be a Hindu,but you are just a ISKCONI and not a Hindu,dont dare to comment on our gods and make them look inferior to Krsna,if you like Krsna be it,but you got no right to call Shiva inferior,what do you know of Hinduism if you talk this way?

Be happy you are not in India,if you talk this way there then ShivSena will punish you so much that even your Krsna cant help you.

If you want Monotheism go back to your Christian religion again,please leave Hindus alone...We are tired of your Shiva Bashing.

 

Very appreciable post. I think Guruvani is not even a pure Iskcon, but more of a Ritvik - a break away from Iskcon sub cult. Its still the same ideology and Hindus, Hinduism and Shiva bashing tactics. Their agenda is to put Hinduism down claiming that Indian gods are not property of Hindus and that they are the only one preaching so called 'Krsna consciousness' and rest is BS. Hinduism is hodge-podge trash. This is what they preach and I'm witness to it a hundred times in different places by different people. How pathetic!!