Dead animal - eating its flesh (allowed or not?)

[theist]

 

Animal rights and non-violence to creatures needs to be taught through spiritual education, not through "activism".

Many of these activists don't have a clue.

They don't believe that animals have souls.

They just feel sympathetic to the pain and suffering of animals.

I speak out daily on animal rights forums and find that because animal right activists are sympathetic to the pain and suffering of animals (others) they are more open to the idea that concept that the actual experiencer of the of the pain is the soul. A great teaching field if approached properly.

 

 

I really doubt that "activism" has accomplished much in the way of animal rights.

Non-violence to animals comes naturally as people are educated about the Vedic spiritual knowledge.

It is a gigantic problem but on the front of animal rights I would say with no doubt they have accomplished more than the Hare Krsna's have, so why through stones?

 

Yes I agree the spiritual knowledge in the vedas points one to non-violence to animals as well as other humans. I wonder when the Hare Krsna's as the self proclaimed repository of the essence of this vedic knowledge will come to this understanding of ahimsa and renounce the cow killing industry in the form of commercial dairy products.

 

 

Even if they stop "activism" though laws, that will not stop the movement of non-violence to animals which spreads through education, not through protest and activism.

Activism is a result of and a promotion of education. Activism through civil disobedience is a tool for social change.

 

 

I don't believe that these protests do anything to actully further the cause of animal rights.

Non-violence to animals will come automatically as Vedic spiritual knowledge is spread through the dissemination of Bhagavad-gita around the world.

Yes by the spread of The KNOWLEDGE that is in such books as the Bhagavad-gita. Such as the verse about how the the humble sage sees with equal vision... There is a difference between selling Bhagavad-gitas around the world and spreading the knowledge of the Bhagavad-gita around the world.

 

Again the example of preaching cow protection while buying commercial milk by those who sell Bhagavad-gitas around the world. There is some serious inconsistency there that needs to be addressed.

 

 

...Violent protestors and activists are just giving the New Age spirituality of yoga and Eastern religions a bad image.

 

I am unaware of any violent animal rights protesters using violence in the name of Eastern religions. Can you give an example or two please?

 

BTW do you consider Maharaja Pariksit's raising his sword to stop the personality of Kali from treating a cow and bull with cruelty such an example?

 

 

If somebody wants to really further the cause of animal rights then they should open up a vegetarian restaurant and teach people through a positive approach rather than all this activism and protest.

What an odd idea. One needs to be in operation of a commercial enterprise before one can voice their opinion. Where did you get that idea? A brahman must be a vaisya before he can teach then? I think not.

 

 

If the government outlaws animal rights protests, that won't really do much of anything to stop the non-violence to animals that comes naturally with the spread of Vedic knowledge.

 

Your mistake is in not recognizing that the squealching of the ideals of ahimsa IS stopping the spreading of vedic knowledge.

 

It is akin to outlawing the preaching of simple living and high thinking on the grounds that it hurts the Capitalistic agenda.

 

This comes from thinking that vedic knowledge must be packaged within a certain limited setting. Broaden out Guruvani.

 

TRANSLATION BG 5.18

The humble sages, by virtue of true knowledge, see with equal vision a learned and gentle brähmaëa, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater [outcaste].

 

PURPORT

A Krsna conscious person does not make any distinction between species or castes. The brähmana and the outcaste may be different from the social point of view, or a dog, a cow, and an elephant may be different from the point of view of species, but these differences of body are meaningless from the viewpoint of a learned transcendentalist. This is due to their relationship to the Supreme, for the Supreme Lord, by His plenary portion as Paramätmä, is present in everyone's heart. Such an understanding of the Supreme is real knowledge. As far as the bodies are concerned in different castes or different species of life, the Lord is equally kind to everyone because He treats every living being as a friend yet maintains Himself as Paramätmä regardless of the circumstances of the living entities. The Lord as Paramätmä is present both in the outcaste and in the brähmaëa, although the body of a brähmana and that of an outcaste are not the same. The bodies are material productions of different modes of material nature, but the soul and the Supersoul within the body are of the same spiritual quality. The similarity in the quality of the soul and the Supersoul, however, does not make them equal in quantity, for the individual soul is present only in that particular body whereas the Paramätmä is present in each and every body. A Kåñëa conscious person has full knowledge of this, and therefore he is truly learned and has equal vision. The similar characteristics of the soul and Supersoul are that they are both conscious, eternal and blissful. But the difference is that the individual soul is conscious within the limited jurisdiction of the body whereas the Supersoul is conscious of all bodies. The Supersoul is present in all bodies without distinction.

[bija]

 

Even if they stop "activism" though laws, that will not stop the movement of non-violence to animals which spreads through education, not through protest and activism. quote by guruvani

I can appreciate your comments and angle of vision somewhat, guruvani.

 

I have a friend who is very much, or was a very passionate activist. He was very concerned about things such as refugees, economics, pollution etc. Also a very intelligent, practical man.

He was always going to protests, sit-ins, marches, whatever. To the point eventually that he fell in with association that was quite radical. Eventually the law came down on him with accusations of criminal activity, for the cause.

 

Some years back now he questioned me, what my problem was. Why was I not active, why was I not doing anything for these causes. I recall some months after that I was watching May Day riots on television. All sorts of people protesting, hippies, punks, straights, greenies, all types.

 

I felt passionate also but this day I had a realisation which changed my whole outlook. I thought to myself, 'I can not change the world, until I change myself. What is needed is a personal revolution, an internal revolution. This will create change.'

So as it turned out, Krsna consciousness has become that revolution for me. A revolution with Sri Guru and Gauranga at the helm. A change of heart so profound in some areas, that even the idea of sitting at a table with someone, who is filling their belly with meat, is not so comfortable. Viva la revolucion!

[Guruvani]

 

So as it turned out, Krsna consciousness has become that revolution for me. A revolution with Sri Guru and Gauranga at the helm. A change of heart so profound in some areas, that even the idea of sitting at a table with someone, who is filling their belly with meat, is not so comfortable. Viva la revolucion!

Most of these "activists" were not converted to non-violence towards animals through the deeds of other "activists".

Most of these activists were converted to vegetaianism through exposure to Eastern philosophies.

Eastern philosophy will always be on the forefront of non-violence to animals and vegetarianism.

The spreading of Eastern philosophy will always be the most effective process of spreading vegetarianism and non-violence to animals around the world.

Animal rights activists who try to seperate animal rights from spirituality will never get anywhere without connecting animals rights to God consciousness.

[theist]

 

Most of these "activists" were not converted to non-violence towards animals through the deeds of other "activists".

Most of these activists were converted to vegetaianism through exposure to Eastern philosophies.

Eastern philosophy will always be on the forefront of non-violence to animals and vegetarianism.

The spreading of Eastern philosophy will always be the most effective process of spreading vegetarianism and non-violence to animals around the world.

Animal rights activists who try to seperate animal rights from spirituality will never get anywhere without connecting animals rights to God consciousness.

 

Alot of animal rights activists are atheists. Partially due I suspect to the "Christian" preaching of the acceptance of animal slaughter. I speak to these people everyday and have for years.

 

Nothing gets anywhere without connecting to God. Has anyone suggested otherwise? But how will that connecting be done without someone bringing God and spiritual life into the equation?

 

bija, I agree on the internal revolution point. But after one has experienced that internal revolution does he not then have some responsibility with sharing that with others? Another angle is that helping others gain knowledge is a way to place ourselves in a better position to please guru and Krsna.

 

I view movements like anti-abortion, anti-animal slaughter, responsible ecological projects as potential forms of karma-yoga. In Isopanishad I remember reading that altruistic activities when performed in the spirit of Isopanishad are another form of karma-yoga.

 

I don't suggest that they are karma-yoga in and of themselves without Krsna. So we must inject Krsna. One can even see it as becoming a sheep in wolves clothing although that example is rather exaggerated.

[bija]

 

bija, I agree on the internal revolution point. But after one has experienced that internal revolution does he not then have some responsibility with sharing that with others? Another angle is that helping others gain knowledge is a way to place ourselves in a better position to please guru and Krsna. quote by theist

 

Theist:), Absolutely. I think from a sharing perspective, it is good to share what we have some good realisation about. I have often fallen into the trap of bluff. You know, talking of things that are just a bunch of head knowledge. But if something is truly realised, when it is shared it is powerful. I think the hearer feels this too.

 

So how to divise ways and means to inject God consciousness to the masses is something so perfectly performed by great teachers. But saying this, we do not have to be great teachers, super knowledgeable or anything like that really. If we are, great. But just sharing a tiny bit of one's

Self/self realisation can possibly have great effect I feel.

 

I take your advice on my head ol' mate. Jaya!

[Guruvani]

 

Alot of animal rights activists are atheists.

so, they only believe in killing the soul, but they object to killing the body?

There are alot of vegetarian primates as far as that goes.

Many monkeys and Gorillas are vegetarians also.

 

Why should any atheist who thinks that life is just a carbon based chain reaction have any objection to killing animals?

 

In the USA today they maintain thousands of slaughter houses for killing cows, chicken and pigs, but they will arrest you and put you in jail if somebody calls the law on you for kicking your dog for chewing up your furniture..

 

It's a crazy world for sure.

[theist]

 

so, they only believe in killing the soul, but they object to killing the body?

There are alot of vegetarian primates as far as that goes.

Many monkeys and Gorillas are vegetarians also.

 

Why should any atheist who thinks that life is just a carbon based chain reaction have any objection to killing animals?

 

In the USA today they maintain thousands of slaughter houses for killing cows, chicken and pigs, but they will arrest you and put you in jail if somebody calls the law on you for kicking your dog for chewing up your furniture..

 

It's a crazy world for sure.

 

Well they don't believe in the soul generally but they do have an inner sense that tells them animal slaughter is an abhorrent practice.

 

No philosophy that is not God based can be totally consistent. Christians are the backbone of the pro-life movement yet they don't have a philosophical answer that satisfactorially explains why it is is wronG

 

 

Why should any atheist who thinks that life is just a carbon based chain reaction have any objection to killing animals?

Exactly. Somehow there is a just a visceral reaction to wrong that we can't always necessarily explain. krsna consciousness offers the reasons why something is wrong. For instance on an abortion debate forum I put forward the point that if I was a materialist I would be a eugenicist full on. If there is no soul and all are just machines why not just try to perfect the production of those machines? From the materialistic angle eugenics makes perfect sense.

 

But the way I see it is is ok that people object to wrongs in the world even without a complete understanding. That leaves the service of filling in the why's to those that have been shown why. So we ahould strengthen the animal rights movement and abortion movements by injecting Krsna conscious truths into the argument. I believe this will be more productive then just dismissing the attempts of others outright.

[gHari]

If one doesn't eat flesh then they would not be able stomach the taste, the stench, the crunch, the blood of eating even already dead creatures. It is just abominable to even think about it. Barf!

 

Would I eat sand, even if it's free? The question is the same to me.

[bija]

 

the stench

the crunch

Yuk!

[Guest guest]

 

Dear Mexgil,

 

Nobody wish to die by eating meat of deceased animals. It is sometimes the tastes, habits & circumstances which force the people to eat meat.

 

An inocent child is habitual to eat the food what his parents feed him. Later when the child grows, he can not change his eating habits even if he wish to with some exceptions. A person who did not eat meat since childhood can not be able to eat meat with ease. He will have to practice it with tolerance.

 

Even the circumstances have bigger impact on the eating habbits. The people who kill the animals do so only to earn the money. If you do not buy the meat from them, the food will be wastage or will be bought by others. So what is wrong ?

 

Those who chose the path of sanyasi, must follow what is right for them, but condemning others who eat meat, is not correct eventhough it is obstacle for the spiritual growth. Everybody's goal is different in life. People must decide on their own what is right for them after realizing.

 

Bhakti is devotion. It is a means to the end which is attainment of Jnana. People of emotional temperament are fit for this path. It demands self-surrender or Atma-nivedan. It is the cat-Yoga. The kitten cries aloud and the mother cat runs at once to catch it by the mouth. So also, the devotee cries aloud like Draupadi and Gajendra and the Lord Krishna runs immediately to rescue him and shower His grace. The Bhakti Marga demands only sincere, intense devotion, blind faith and strong conviction as Prahlad had. There is no necessity for learning. Illiterate people like Tukaram who could not sign even their names had realized God. There is no need for vast learning or study. A Bhakta wants to eat sugar-candy. He wants to sit by the side of the Lord.

 

Jnana is the Yoga of self-expansion. It demands self-reliance. Only people of an intellectual temperament with Vichara Sakti or the power of discrimination and ratiocination are fit for the path of Jnana or knowledge. It is the monkey-Yoga. The young monkey does not cry, but itself clings tenaciously to the body of its mother wherever the mother runs. This Yoga demands a vast study of Vedantic literature, a sharp intellect, bold understanding, gigantic will and courage. A Jnani wants to become an embodiment of sugar-candy, instead of tasting sugar-candy. A Jnani wants to become identical with the Existence (Eka Aikyam).

[Guest guest]

 

In the USA today they maintain thousands of slaughter houses for killing cows, chicken and pigs, but they will arrest you and put you in jail if somebody calls the law on you for kicking your dog for chewing up your furniture..

 

It's a crazy world for sure.

 

Hari OM

 

Yes i too agree fully , it's a crazy world for sure, eg., are

 

1) In India, recently all the medias went mad at one lawyer who tried to defended one man accused of murdering one woman, the same medias showed no reaction towards the lawyers of Terrorist who killed hundreds of people (women included) or corrupt guys running into billions of rupees

 

2) High-ranking ministers fly to have a full-fledged dinner with hard-code terrorists , proven of killing hundreds of people,but threatening "iron-hand" approach towards various working class people agitating for some genuine reason for the crime of breaking some glasses

 

3) After every major bomb blast a new bus route is opened to pakistan

 

4) High pitch propoganda against India's traiditonal medicinal and legal system which shows the western systems in positive light, this in spite of proven cases where hospitals and courts do criminal activities purely for money (including the most famous issuing a non bailable arrest warant against many prominent politicans in lieu of payment)

 

5) Trivial issues like hero/heroine or player-coach splits getting 98% media coverage compared to non-trivial issues like cultural destruction, demographic change, population and environmental issues all put together getting 2% coverage

 

The list is endless, not only the world is crazy, whoever tries to understand it goes mad, and whoever tries to react to it becomes bewildered

 

Thank God for the spiritual gurus for showing a way and light out of this madness , thanks and thanks again a million times

[Guest guest]

 

Dear Mexgil,

 

Nobody wish to die by eating meat of deceased animals. It is sometimes the tastes, habits & circumstances which force the people to eat meat.

 

An inocent child is habitual to eat the food what his parents feed him. Later when the child grows, he can not change his eating habits even if he wish to with some exceptions. A person who did not eat meat since childhood can not be able to eat meat with ease. He will have to practice it with tolerance.

 

Even the circumstances have bigger impact on the eating habbits. The people who kill the animals do so only to earn the money. If you do not buy the meat from them, the food will be wastage or will be bought by others. So what is wrong ?

 

Those who chose the path of sanyasi, must follow what is right for them, but condemning others who eat meat, is not correct eventhough it is obstacle for the spiritual growth. Everybody's goal is different in life. People must decide on their own what is right for them after realizing.

 

This is an ingenious trick of your mind to support your arguments and general philosophy which has passion and sexual gratification as its important tenets.

 

Lust is but a natural tendency of the mind. The best method to check the impulse is the way of intense and deep Vairagya by a study of religious books, by constant Satsang with Mahatmas (noble souls), by self-enquiry or "Who am I?" enquiry, by close observance of the ways of the world, and by an understanding of the diseases and the spiritual degradation that result from over-indulgence. If you happen to entertain lustful thoughts, if you live in the company of lustful persons, and if you do not take Sattvic food, how can you destroy your passion evenif you eat vegetarian food.

 

Communication with the dead and talking with the dead are all fads which have no connection with real spirituality. The purpose of life is different. The goal is to realize the essential imperishability of your Self.

 

You may be convinced intellectually that the world is false, only Krishna is real and all the sense-enjoyments bring misery only. But this conviction is not strong. You may think, "Let me enjoy the sense-pleasures for five minutes". Thus you are deceived by Maya. All sense-pleasures are sugar-coated pills made by Maya.

 

He who is pure in thought, speech and action, who fears sin and Adharma, who is pious, God-fearing and equanimous, who is balanced and capable of maintaining equilibrium, will have his conscience in an unblemished state. He who has abundant Sattva (quality of purity) will always have an unmarred conscience. Expansion of heart gives rise to the hearing of the voice of conscience. Inner guidance will always be to that individual who has Sattva in abundant measure by way of Japa, Svadhyaya, Pranayam, selfless service and other elevative works (Yajna).

 

"Killing of conscience" means killing of what is divine in man, killing of the enviable quality of Sattva, expenditure of the laudable wealth of Dharma, the praiseworthy treasure of spiritual progress. He who is God-fearing can never commit anything that debases him or degrades him in moral evolution. To kill the conscience means to kill the God in man, to make an end of all Daivi Sampat (wealth of divine qualities) and equal oneself to a brute and reduce oneself to a spiritual cannibal. True conscience is another name for the Antaratma or Inner Soul.

[Guest guest]

 

In keeping with the spirit of your own post I can ask... Why do you say the Vedas are eternal? Just because someone told you?

 

Are animal sacrifice and man/animal sacrifice eternal?

 

What do you call eternal? I believe Vaisnavism is the only eternal activity of the soul and I see no place for animal sacrifice or human sacrifice in Vaisnavism.

I THINK IT IS MENTIONED IN THE BHAGAVAT THAT THE VEDAS ARE ETERNAL AND KRISHNA PROTECTS THE VEDAS WHENEVER THE NEED ARISES - - (MASIYA AVTAAR (FISH))

 

What do you call eternal?... THAT WHICH DOES NOT PARISH E.G THE SOUL

KRISHNA SAYS IN THE GITA THAT THE SOUL IS ETERNAL

 

..WHAT I AM TRYING TO GET AT IS THAT THERE ARE ANIMAL SACRIFICES THAT IS RECOMENDED IN THE VEDAS FOR CERTAIN TIME AND PLACE ECT. ECT

 

THEREFORE U CANNOT IGNORE THAT PATH JUST BECAUSE YOU DO NOT FOLLOW IT,IT ISTHERE -

 

VAISNAVASIM IS ONE OF THE PATHS THAT THE VEDAS RECOMENDS ANOTHER FOR EXAMPLE WOULD BE SHAVISM WHICH IS ALSO ETERNAL !

 

AND SO ARE THE SACRIFICES

 

ANIMAL SACRIFICES ARE GOING ON IN THE WORLD --- NOT ONLY IN THIS UNIVERSE BUT OTHERS ONES AS WELL AND IT WILL CONTINUE ....

 

WHAT NEEDS TO BE EXPLAINED IS WHY THESE SACRIFICES ARE RECOMENDED IN THE VEDAS- - AND UNDER WHICH CIRCUMSTANCES ARE THEY RECOMENDED

[theist]

JASWANT,

 

I don't deny such sacrifices are found in the Vedas. I just don't accept them as eternal. I find them adhorrent. Cultures around the world engaged in such things and they are just in mode of ignorance in my estimation.

 

Varnashrama is also prescribed in vedic texts, but I don't accept it as an eternal activity.

 

Just because brahmana priests are sacrificing animals in Vrndavan even while Krsna is present is no indication to me that such things take place in Goloka.

 

The word eternal I think gets used different ways. In one sense hell is also eternal because the universes are forever being manifested. Yet the activity of hell is never considered eternal activity. I view animal /human sacrifice to be a hellish activity although polished and dressed up in religious garb. I know this view may not be accepted here but I am just being honest about my views.

[Avinash]

It is true that Vedas prescribe animal sacrifice. But, we must see why. In other words, what do we gain by animal sacrifice. And do we really want to gain that?

 

To take an analogy, various studies have shown that some kind of meat is good for health. I know many in this forum will oppose this and say that meat-eating can never be good for health. But I am not arguing over whether meat-eating is really good for health or not. What I am asking is the following : -

"If it is true that meat-eating is good for health, does it prove that it is good to eat meat?"

 

If you say no, then I can as well say that animal sacrifice is not good even though it is prescribed in Vedas. Let us see why: -

 

Vedas say that demigods become happy because of animal sacrifice and they let us spend some time in heavenly planets. But is it good to kill animals just to get chance to spend some time in heavenly planets? It is similar to asking if it is good to kill animals if we find that eating meat is good for health? Let us see what Lord Krsna Himself says in this regard: -

 

In Uddhava Gita Krsna says to Uddhava, "SB 11.21.23:Those statements of scripture promising fruitive rewards do not prescribe the ultimate good for men hut are merely enticements for executing beneficial religious duties, like promises of candy spoken to induce a child to take beneficial medicine."

 

If you read this verse in context, you will find that Lord Krsna is talking about karma-knda portion of Vedas. Animal sacrifice is a part of karma-kanda. Lord Krsna clearly says that these rituals prescribed in karma-kanda do not prescribe the ultimate good.

 

SB 11.21.26:"Persons with perverted intelligence do not understand this actual purpose of Vedic knowledge and instead propagate as the highest Vedic truth the flowery statements of the Vedas that promise material rewards. Those in actual knowledge of the Vedas never speak in that way."

 

Here Krsna says that material rewards mentioned in Vedas do not constitute the highest Vedic truth. Spending some time in heavenly planets is also a kind of material reward because we do not stay in these planets for ever.

 

The following verses of Uddhava Gita bring this point very clearly: -

 

SB 11.21.29-30: Those who are sworn to sense gratification cannot understand the confidential conclusion of Vedic knowledge as explained by Me. Taking pleasure in violence, they cruelly slaughter innocent animals in sacrifice for their own sense gratification and thus worship demigods, forefathers and leaders among ghostly creatures. Such passion for violence, however, is never encouraged within the process of Vedic sacrifice.

SB 11.21.31: Just as a foolish businessman gives up his real wealth in useless business speculation, foolish persons give up all that is actually valuable in life and instead pursue promotion to material heaven, which although pleasing to hear about is actually unreal, like a dream. Such bewildered persons imagine within their hearts that they will achieve all material blessings.

SB 11.21.32: Those established in material passion, goodness and ignorance worship the particular demigods and other deities, headed by Indra, who manifest the same modes of passion, goodness or ignorance. They fail, however, to properly worship Me.

SB 11.21.33-34: The worshipers of demigods think, "We shall worship the demigods in this life, and by our sacrifices we shall go to heaven and enjoy there. When that enjoyment is finished we shall return to this world and take birth as great householders in aristocratic families." Being excessively proud and greedy, such persons are bewildered by the flowery words of the Vedas. They are not attracted to topics about Me, the Supreme Lord.

 

Also see what Krsna says to Arjuna in Bhagavad Gita in this respect: -

 

BG 2.42-43: "Men of small knowledge are very much attached to the flowery words of the Vedas, which recommend various fruitive activities for elevation to heavenly planets, resultant good birth, power, and so forth. Being desirous of sense gratification and opulent life, they say that there is nothing more than this."

[Guest guest]

Theist & Avinash ,

 

..MY REASONING IS THIS - THAT THERE IS NEVER A TIME WHEN ALL THE SOULS ARE FREE FROM BONDAGE AND THEREFORE THE LORD APPEARS IN THE MATERIAL UNIVERSE ON A REGULAR BASIS TO HELP FREE THE SOULS....I BELIVE THAT THE VEDAS IS ETERNAL AND THE VEDAS HOLD TRUE FOR OUR UNIVERSE WITH BRAHMA HAVINF 3 HEADS & ALSO HOLDS TRUE IN OTHER UNIVERSES WITH DIF. BRAHMAS RULLING BUT ITS THE SAME VEDAS.

 

THEIST IF YOU BELIVE THAT GOLOK IS ETERNAL THAN VARNASHRAM IS ALSO ETERNAL... ITS PRACTISED IN GOLOK -- IN GOLOK YOU HAVE BRAHMANS SUDRAS ECT ECT - - BUT THEY ARE ENGAGED IN THE ABSOLUTE.... I UNDERSTAND YOUR VIEW THAT ANIMAL SACRIFICES ARE HELLISH AND I AGREE WITH THAT-- BUT AS AVINASH POINTS OUT IT IS THERE FOR THE PEOPLE OF LOWER UNDERSTANDING-AND IT WILL ALWAYS BE THERE

 

..."SB 11.21.23:Those statements of scripture promising fruitive rewards do not prescribe the ultimate good for men hut are merely enticements for executing beneficial religious duties, like promises of candy spoken to induce a child to take beneficial medicine."

 

..LETS FACE CAN YOU IMMAGINE A WORLD WITH ALL ADULTS !! THERE WILL ALWAYS BE SOME KIDS AROUND TO ENTICE TO MOVE IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION...THE MATERIAL UNIVERSE IS NEVER DESTROYED IT IS ETERNAL THAT IS ITS EVER EXISTANT JUST LIKE THE LORD...THE LORD MAY SUSPENDS ITS ACTIVITIES AND KEEP IT IN HIMSELF FOR A WHILE BUT IT REMAINS AND THE ACTIVIES START WHEN THE LORD WILLS IT

 

AVINASH,THANKS FOR YOUR POST...THAT WAS WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET AT IS "THERE IS THESE ANIMAL SACRIFICES BUT WHY ARE THEY PRESCRIBED"

 

THANKS

JASWANT

[Guest guest]

SB 4.25.7 P The Descriptions of the Characteristics of King Puranjana

 

Because animal sacrifice is recommended in the Vedas, there are animal sacrifices in almost all religious rituals. However, one should not be satisfied simply by killing animals according to the directions of the scriptures. One should transcend the ritualistic ceremonies and try to understand the actual truth, the purpose of life.

 

SB 4.25.8 P The Descriptions of the Characteristics of King Puranjana

 

Narada Muni wanted to draw King Pracinabarhisat's attention to the excesses of killing animals in sacrifices. It is said in the sastras that by killing animals in a sacrifice, one immediately promotes them to human birth. Similarly, by killing their enemies on a battlefield, the ksatriyas who fight for a right cause are elevated to the heavenly planets after death. In Manu-samhita it is stated that it is necessary for a king to execute a murderer so that the murderer will not suffer for his criminal actions in his next life. On the basis of such understanding, Narada Muni warns the King that the animals killed in sacrifices by the King await him at his death in order to avenge themselves. Narada Muni is not contradicting himself here. Narada Muni wanted to convince the King that overindulgence in animal sacrifice is risky because as soon as there is a small discrepancy in the execution of such a sacrifice, the slaughtered animal may not be promoted to a human form of life. Consequently, the person performing sacrifice will be responsible for the death of the animal, just as much as a murderer is responsible for killing another man. When animals are killed in a slaughterhouse, six people connected with the killing are responsible for the murder. The person who gives permission for the killing, the person who kills, the person who helps, the person who purchases the meat, the person who cooks the flesh and the person who eats it, all become entangled in the killing. Narada Muni wanted to draw the King's attention to this fact. Thus animal-killing is not encouraged even in a sacrifice.

[Guest guest]

What has Lord Rama got to do with this? He did not eat meat in any jungle. If you believe He did, well then he also made heavy stones float on the ocean surface. Let's not try to imitate Him.

 

But the fact remains, He did not eat meat. No father eats the flesh of his own children. It's an absurd claim.

 

 

And what about Rama in the Dandaka jungle? How does a warrior stay at the peak of his physical state without eating meat?

[Bishadi]

I am going to interupt on this.

 

If a life is purposed to acheive the highest state of living, 'growth towards evolving'. And it is a fact that our physical body is made of a huge organization of living things all assembled to sustain this 'life' geared to accept the sustainance of the evolved species, then the thought would return that the total, (God) measured it this way.

 

Just because our personal compassion offers refraining from consumptions, the process of thought is good but the absolute neccessity for the quality of functioning processes that enable each step is a part of the required path.

 

Be thankful and be knowing that there is purpose for the beasts and there evolution just the same, the path is shown both in the beasts and man, as we are of the same fabric which needs the other as we are of the same total but consciousness is the achievement of the total to be acknowledged.

[theist]

 

THEIST IF YOU BELIVE THAT GOLOK IS ETERNAL THAN VARNASHRAM IS ALSO ETERNAL... ITS PRACTISED IN GOLOK -- IN GOLOK YOU HAVE BRAHMANS SUDRAS ECT ECT - - BUT THEY ARE ENGAGED IN THE ABSOLUTE.... I UNDERSTAND YOUR VIEW THAT ANIMAL SACRIFICES ARE HELLISH AND I AGREE WITH THAT-- BUT AS AVINASH POINTS OUT IT IS THERE FOR THE PEOPLE OF LOWER UNDERSTANDING-AND IT WILL ALWAYS BE THERE

 

By Goloka I meant to refer to the Earthly manifestaion. Do you mean to say that you believe in the Spiritual Sky there is need of varnashram and animal sacrifice?

[Nrsinghadev]

 

How does a warrior stay at the peak of his physical state without eating meat?

 

Not speaking of as it is today, but the Shaolin monks of yore did not seem to have a problem staying at the peak of their physical condition!

They were strict vegetarians. As in, they, apart from meat, also shunned fish and eggs, and they also avoided garlic and onions and other spicy foodstuffs.

Yet despite what modern "food experts" dictate, their physical condition was simply astounding. You can still see it today, as there are still traditional monks out there who live the pure vegetarian diet (despite Kali taking it's toll there), and are doing handclap push-ups up and down a mountain staircase right after a one hour jogging excercise in the early morning as a daily routine which is but one of many daily excercises.

In my worthless opinion, it's all about your state of mind. That is, if you believe that you need meat to keep your strength up, then that belief will carry on through to your body and vice versa.

 

Haribol!

[theist]

 

By Goloka I meant to refer to the Earthly manifestaion. Do you mean to say that you believe in the Spiritual Sky there is need of varnashram and animal sacrifice?

 

 

"By Goloka I meant to refer to the Earthly manifestaion."

 

Should have read ..........Original Spiritual manifestation.

 

See young ones. This is why you should not bombard your brains with pyschedelic drugs in your youth.

[Guruvani]

 

"By Goloka I meant to refer to the Earthly manifestaion."

 

Should have read ..........Original Spiritual manifestation.

 

See young ones. This is why you should not bombard your brains with pyschedelic drugs in your youth.

 

I did my share of the psychedelics.

Don't blame anything on some good ol' LSD.

 

The Earthly manifestation of Goloka is known as Gokula.

 

Actually, I read somewhere that Goloka was actually modeled after Gokula.

Can you imagine that?

 

Goloka aspires to be like Gokula?

 

When dealing with the infinite, don't EVER think you have it all in your grasp.

[theist]

 

I did my share of the psychedelics.

Don't blame anything on some good ol' LSD.

 

The Earthly manifestation of Goloka is known as Gokula.

 

Actually, I read somewhere that Goloka was actually modeled after Gokula.

Can you imagine that?

 

Goloka aspires to be like Gokula?

 

When dealing with the infinite, don't EVER think you have it all in your grasp.

 

My problem is that I took way too much way too often.

 

Yes I know Gokula.

 

No I can't imagine that Goloka was modeled after Gokula. Nor do I believe it.

 

Good advice, if we can properly assimilate just one crumb of the infinite we will find our full satisfaction.

[Guest guest]

 

The whole world has been in 'Kill or be killed' mode for uncountable years and so the cycle perpetuates, and the planet has steadilly degraded through war after war of endless killing, by those caught up in this apprehention of defence and offence to survive.

It seems that those who gain enough intelligence to see through this stumbling block evolve to living and let living (vegetarianism)and then start to evolve spiritually to another level of consciousness that opens up channels to infinitely better realms of existence. But the meat eater will never never know unlessl they ever ever go there.

 

What saddens me is to see alot of these fortunate Indians born as vegetarians, coming to the west or looking to the west thinking that by drinking and meat eating they are somehow liberated.

 

 

Here Here. I totally agree.