Remedial Measures

June 20, 2001

At 09:43 AM 6/20/01 +0800, you wrote:

>Dear Marcia,

>

>I have to say I don't know a great deal about the SA. I did watch their list

>(from the wings) for a little while but never really had enough time to

>follow it fully. Of course for Scorpio Asc. Saturn's moolatrikona is 4th hse

>of happiness & contentment and it's always good for that lord to be strong.

>Scripture also states that a malefic owning a kendra has the power to do

>good. However further comment suggests that this applies only if the malefic

>simultaneously owns a trine.

right....it seems as though there are some contradictions in many places.

>My judgement in a nutshell is that, if weak or afflicted, it would be

>advantageous to strengthen 4th lord Saturn. Due consideration should be

>given though to any planets aspected by Saturn...as you know 4th hse also

>governs "endings, close of life, graveside etc" and Saturn is the natural

>significator of these things...so caution!!

it is confusing in terms of how to advise others, as all lagnas have these

dilemmas. i personally would never advise scorpio lagna to wear blue

sapphire, but i guess it does depend on the individual chart.

thanks

marcia

>Regards, Wendy

>

> > hi wendy

> > regarding your statements below.

> > according to SA saturn is the Most Benefic Planet for scorpio lagna

> > 'would you recommend someone wearing sapphire then, if saturn were well

> > situated in the chart and not harming anything?

> > or even if?

> > this is confusing to me, as saturn seems a malefic, especially for lagnas

> > that it does not become raj yoga producing planet (ie: libra).

> > thanks

> > marcia

>

>gjlist-

>

>Your use of is subject to

June 20, 2001

At 10:41 AM 6/20/01 +0530, you wrote:

>Hello Marcia,

hi manoj

thanks for your reply.

i was asking about remedials for particular lagnas......

it gets confusing which planets are malefic and which are benefic, given the

differing systems that are out there. for example in SA because mercury's

MT is virgo, it is considered a

benefic for scorpio, even tho it rules the 8H.

prices for gems are usually too extraordinary to the average person anyway,

i was more interested in the philosophy behind the recommendation.

take care

marcia

>How are you doing ? Wendy was right. Normally I dont prescribe or use gems

>in my scheme of things. My scheme of things rest solely on what Parashara

>has advised in the "Shanti Adhyay" of Brihat Parashar Hora Shastra and there

>he says only three things can ameliorate one's sufferings and these are

>"Jap", "Tap" and "Daan". Saturn is Krishna devotee. So in case of Saturn, it

>is advisable to do Pooja for Lord Krishna.

>

>best regards,

>

>Manoj

>

June 20, 2001

Hi Manoj,

Please explain what "Jap", "Tap" and "Daan" mean.

Reagards and love,

Liliana

>"Manoj Pathak" <manojpathak

>gjlist

>Re: [gjlist] Remedial Measures

>Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:41:44 +0530

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>

>Hello Marcia,

>

>How are you doing ? Wendy was right. Normally I dont prescribe or use gems

>in my scheme of things. My scheme of things rest solely on what Parashara

>has advised in the "Shanti Adhyay" of Brihat Parashar Hora Shastra and

>there

>he says only three things can ameliorate one's sufferings and these are

>"Jap", "Tap" and "Daan". Saturn is Krishna devotee. So in case of Saturn,

>it

>is advisable to do Pooja for Lord Krishna.

>

>best regards,

>

>Manoj

>

> >Marcia <marcia

> >gjlist

> >Re: [gjlist] Remedial Measures

> >Tue, 19 Jun 2001 10:57:06 -0700

> >

> >hi wendy

> >regarding your statements below.

> >according to SA saturn is the Most Benefic Planet for scorpio lagna

> >'would you recommend someone wearing sapphire then, if saturn were well

> >situated in the chart and not harming anything?

> >or even if?

> >this is confusing to me, as saturn seems a malefic, especially for lagnas

> >that it does not become raj yoga producing planet (ie: libra).

> >thanks

> >marcia

> >

> >At 12:41 PM 6/19/01 +0800, you wrote:

> > >Hello Tulasi,

> > >

> > >The most important point is that strengthening and appeasing are two

> > >entirely different things. If a functional malefic is the harbinger of

> > >difficulties then one would donate (give away in charity) the things

> > >associated with that planet in order to appease his malefic tendencies.

> >On

> > >the other hand if a planet were a functional benefic then one would

>wish

> >to

> > >increase the benefic tendencies by wearing the gem or articles

>associated

> > >with that planet or reciting the appropriate mantra. Doing these things

> >will

> > >help to strengthen the planet...giving up the things ruled by a planet

>is

> > >appeasing or pacifying the planet, not strengthening it.

> > >

> > >Regards, Wendy

> > >

> >

> >gjlist-

> >

> >Your use of is subject to

> >

>

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>gjlist-

>

>Your use of is subject to

>

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June 20, 2001

Dear Narinder,

If my memory serves me correctly you are expert in kavach (amulet) therapy.

Whilst most of us have a fair knowledge of the appropriate mantras and gems

our knowledge of the use of amulets is somewhat lacking. I know mine is...I

know a little, but not enough to be comfortable about advising people about

these...they're also more affordable than gems, I believe. Could you, for

the benefit of all, tell us what you can about their use, scriptural

reference to their use, etc.

I have the chart of a native who is suffering a great deal in life. He would

never be able to afford gems, nor would he be inclined towards

mantras...could you suggest how a kavach could help in this instance. The

birth details are:

Male

28 Jan 1964

Melbourne, Australia.

Best Regards, Wendy

> Hello wendy & list members,

>

> Adoption of astral remedial measures depens on nativity, planet Jupiter,

> ascendant lord and trend of the coming periods. If these are severely

> afflicted and coming period is also not supportive then the native do not

> adopt the Astral remedial measures. You can say this is the fate of the

> native.

>

> With Best Wishes

>

> Narinder Juneja

> www.mywebastrologer.com

June 20, 2001

Whoops! Correct details...including time :-)

Male

28 Jan 1964

10.50 AM

Melbourne, Australia

> Dear Narinder,

>

> If my memory serves me correctly you are expert in kavach (amulet)

therapy.

> Whilst most of us have a fair knowledge of the appropriate mantras and

gems

> our knowledge of the use of amulets is somewhat lacking. I know mine

is...I

> know a little, but not enough to be comfortable about advising people

about

> these...they're also more affordable than gems, I believe. Could you, for

> the benefit of all, tell us what you can about their use, scriptural

> reference to their use, etc.

>

> I have the chart of a native who is suffering a great deal in life. He

would

> never be able to afford gems, nor would he be inclined towards

> mantras...could you suggest how a kavach could help in this instance. The

> birth details are:

>

> Male

> 28 Jan 1964

> Melbourne, Australia.

>

> Best Regards, Wendy

June 20, 2001

Dear Wendy,

What about his time of birth?

You can get a complete picture of amulets at

http://www.zodiaccomputers.com/Html/Yantras.htm

G Kumar

Vedic Astrologer

www.zodiaccomputers.com

-

Wendy Vasicek <wenvas

Thursday, June 21, 2001 8:11 AM

Re: [gjlist] Re: Remedial Measures

> Dear Narinder,

>

> If my memory serves me correctly you are expert in kavach (amulet)

therapy.

> Whilst most of us have a fair knowledge of the appropriate mantras and

gems

> our knowledge of the use of amulets is somewhat lacking. I know mine

is...I

> know a little, but not enough to be comfortable about advising people

about

> these...they're also more affordable than gems, I believe. Could you, for

> the benefit of all, tell us what you can about their use, scriptural

> reference to their use, etc.

>

> I have the chart of a native who is suffering a great deal in life. He

would

> never be able to afford gems, nor would he be inclined towards

> mantras...could you suggest how a kavach could help in this instance. The

> birth details are:

>

> Male

> 28 Jan 1964

> Melbourne, Australia.

>

> Best Regards, Wendy

>

> > Hello wendy & list members,

> >

> > Adoption of astral remedial measures depens on nativity, planet Jupiter,

> > ascendant lord and trend of the coming periods. If these are severely

> > afflicted and coming period is also not supportive then the native do

not

> > adopt the Astral remedial measures. You can say this is the fate of the

> > native.

> >

> > With Best Wishes

> >

> > Narinder Juneja

> > www.mywebastrologer.com

>

> gjlist-

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

June 20, 2001

Dear Wendy,

The appropriate kavacha for him will be Sudarshana Yantra.

His Mercury is heavily afflicted and is ruling as the Dasa Ruler now.

G Kumar

Vedic Astrologer

www.zodiaccomputers.com

-

Wendy Vasicek <wenvas

Thursday, June 21, 2001 8:36 AM

Re: [gjlist] Re: Remedial Measures

> Whoops! Correct details...including time :-)

>

> Male

> 28 Jan 1964

> 10.50 AM

> Melbourne, Australia

>

> > Dear Narinder,

> >

> > If my memory serves me correctly you are expert in kavach (amulet)

> therapy.

> > Whilst most of us have a fair knowledge of the appropriate mantras and

> gems

> > our knowledge of the use of amulets is somewhat lacking. I know mine

> is...I

> > know a little, but not enough to be comfortable about advising people

> about

> > these...they're also more affordable than gems, I believe. Could you,

for

> > the benefit of all, tell us what you can about their use, scriptural

> > reference to their use, etc.

> >

> > I have the chart of a native who is suffering a great deal in life. He

> would

> > never be able to afford gems, nor would he be inclined towards

> > mantras...could you suggest how a kavach could help in this instance.

The

> > birth details are:

> >

> > Male

> > 28 Jan 1964

> > Melbourne, Australia.

> >

> > Best Regards, Wendy

>

> gjlist-

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

June 20, 2001

Hello Tulasi Devi,

Well said.

>Manoj,

>I am close in agreement with you, but I know many who are highly spiriutal,

>have chanted mantras "anyway," and still have had astrological problems.

>In those cases I am thinking something else may be needed for them,

>possibly something more materail as they are less on the material plane and

>do not deal with that as directly. What do you think?

>Tulasi

Tulasi. In their cases they need nothing because they know the importance of

suffering one's Prarabdh. They would continue to suffer and keep remembering

him because they know that the sins of one's past life have to be suffered

and cannot be postponed. Because they are spiritual they know it and those

who are not look for remedies elsewhere. These people (spiritual) know that

the one who has given sufferings is the only one empowered to obliterate it.

Therefore they keep praying to him and keep suffering. I have met a number

of them. One was a great person. Once after his devotee left his room, he

developed ulcer in his stomach. Before meeting his devotee he was perfectly

alright. He did not take any medicine. He told his followers that it is

better to suffer one's bad karmas rather than finding ways and means of

overcoming them or postponing them. They are not bothered with the

materialistic world and therefore take no materialistic remedies.

best wishes and regards,

Manoj

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June 21, 2001

Hello Marcia,

>i was asking about remedials for particular lagnas......it gets confusing

>which planets are malefic and which are benefic, given the differing

>systems that are out there. for example in SA because mercury's MT is

>virgo, it is considered a benefic for scorpio, even tho it rules the 8H.

>prices for gems are usually too extraordinary to the average person

>anyway, i was more interested in the philosophy behind the recommendation.

>take care

>marcia

First of all you know I dont believe in Systems Approach. I believe in

Systematic Approach and I have told Mr. Chowdhry also about it on a number

of occasions. How can it be that there is no malefic planet for Mithuna

lagna. Read Brihat Parashar Hora Shastra and you find that he has listed

good and bad planets for each lagna. If you need to prescribe a gem, at all,

(because I dont believe in gems) then go according to the running dasha. The

yogas present in the horoscope are there for one's entire life but give

results only when the proper dasha comes.

best wishes and regards,

Manoj

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June 21, 2001

Hi Liliana,

Let me try and explain these terms to you :

Jap : Japam means recitation of a particular mantra over and over again. We

keep reciting a mantra minimum for 108 times and it completes one Mala

(garland) and the continues recitation of any mantra, whether given to you

by your Guru or adopted by yourself is Japam. Japa is mental and is

controlled with Prana (respiration).

Tapa : Tapa means Tapasya or Penance. This is physical. One atones for his

sins in many ways. Tapasya is denying oneself the benefits and pleasures of

materialistic life and is akin to suffering. Like if I decide to sit in a

forest and keep doing a mantra or a specific religious or spiritual practice

there, far from the madding crowd.

Daan : Donations or Charity. Donations to needy constitute this third

component. Even if you are unable to carry out the first two components, the

third one, the donation or charity is again a very powerful tool and one

should continue doing it.

Hope it helps.

with best wishes and regards,

Manoj

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June 21, 2001

Dear Manoj/Tulasi,

Many people are not familiar with language of mantra due to their cultural

background, domicile, education. If you do some charity according to

functional nature of malefic planets or offer some part of breakfast to

birds which every person, religion, culture easily accepts and can perform

and have tremendous results in appeasing the malefic planets.

With Best Wishes

Narinder Juneja

Sr. Astrologer

www.mywebastrologer.com

-

Tulasi Devi <tulasidevi2000

Wednesday, June 20, 2001 8:47 PM

[gjlist] Re: Remedial Measures

> Hello List,

>

> Well, I certainly DID hit on a hot topic. lol Anyway,

> I thank everyone for their responses and hope I can

> reply to each, but if I can't, know

> that I do apprecaite it. - Tulasi devi dasi

> -------

>

> Narinder,

>

> Though I am new to the Remedial side of jyotish

> astrology, I never heard of mantra's going wrong the

> way I have with gems. Could you please elaborate?

>

> >> as mantra recitation could usually go wrong which

> can give adverse results.<

>

> ---------------

> Manoj,

>

> I am close in agreement with you, but I know many who

> are highly spiriutal, have chanted mantras "anyway,"

> and still have had astrological problems. In those

> cases I am thinking something else may be needed for

> them, possibly something more materail as they are

> less on the material plane and do not deal with that

> as directly. What do you think?

>

> Tulasi

>

> >>"Manoj Pathak" <manojpathak

> Re: Remedial Measures

>

> Hello friends,

>

> Tulasi has again raised an issue which has been

> debated for a long

> time. I am not going into it. But since this issue has

> cropped up, I would offer my views limited to daily

> usage of some mantras which if done regularly can ward

> off many evils.

>

> 1. recitation of Navgraha stotra regularly.

> 2. recitation of hanuman chalisa.

> 3. recitation of vishnu sahastranaam.

> 4. recitation of mrityunjaya mantra.

>

> regular recitation of these mantras can work wonders.

> Those who wish

> can try it out and see for themselves. And if one

> starts doing it on a regular basis, there is no need

> for any gem, kavach, talisman or things like that.

>

> Manoj<<

> --------

>

> Zodiac,

>

> You make a very good point how, if we don't get it

> right, we ourself could incur karma. Something I

> suspect we all need to think more about.

>

> Tulasi devi dasi

>

> -----

> Hello das Goravani,

>

> Thank you for the very informative letter.

>

> >>Das Goravani <>

> Re: Remedial Measures

>

> Planetary mantras: http://www.p-g-a.org/mantra.html

> <<

>

> Though I do not have the time to look at this site

> right now, as I am about to go out, I am very

> interested in it. Now here is my constant dilema. It

> feels too close to demi-god worship. The lady I am

> doing the chart for is a nondevotee, so maybe it would

> be ok for her, but in general I am not sure what way

> to go with this concept of chanting mantras to the

> demi-gods. ?

>

> >> It is in fact, the plant on Earth which gives off

> the most oxygen of any plant weighed against it's size

> etc. <

>

> I never knew that. How interesting!

>

> I am sure there are many opinions on whether or not

> one should prescribe/use remedial measures or not. I

> have thought about this long and hard. My conclusion

> has been, thus far, that it would be like telling

> someone not to go to a medical doctor when they are

> ill but just flow with their karma. Of course, at the

> time of death that is all very different, but on a

> day-to-day life basis, I feel that it is good to help

> someone.

>

> I too believe mantra is the most potent of all for a

> remedial measure. That does bring one to a duality.

> One the one hand, she is a nondevotee, though it is

> true she might chant anyway but I am also speaking of

> the nondevotees charts we sometimes do who might not.

> So thats out. And then there is the devotee who, as I

> explained in a letter above, chants all the time

> anyway. They seem to need something on a more material

> level, so they can get more spiritual. That is, heal

> the body or mind so they can get back with their

> devotional service. So this is a dilema for me at the

> moment, mantra.

>

> Tulasi devi dasi

>

> >>Hello Tulasi Devi Dasi,

>

> That name, Tulasi, comes from an old Vedic story,

> about how a great

> eternal associate of Vishnu has been essentially

> placed into a plant

> form here on Earth, the Tulasi plant, and who's leaves

> fall upon the

> Salagram Sila stone (a representation of Vishnu on

> Earth), and thus

> here too she is serving the lord, providing solace to

> Him here, and so,

> offerings to Krishna are not accepted unless Tulasi

> leaves are present

> (so to speak). So in Krishna temples in India, we find

> Tulasi leaves

> are placed on the food offered to Krishna on the

> altar. The prasadam or

> foods that come off such Krishna altars are often

> covered in fresh

> Tulasi leaves. Tulasi is an amazing plant on the

> scientific external

> platform as well, with many fine properties. It is in

> fact, the plant

> on Earth which gives off the most oxygen of any plant

> weighed against it's size etc. So it's a potent plant

> on the material level as well. It is said that walking

> clockwise around a Tulasi plant in the proper mood

> removes all sin. So your name is a remedial measure in

> a sense!

>

> Remedial Measures means taking steps to alleviate

> something we don't

> desire to experience. This is a complex subject

> because of the

> complexity of the components of this endevour, which

> includes:

>

> the identity of the seer or native, who wishes to

> alleviate something

> the thing wishing to be improved or changed

> the motivation for such a desire

> the nature or the identity of the cause of the

> negative

> the negative itself, and it's necessity in their life

> already

> (or it's place in their lesson set)

> the practice, technique or structure of the remedial

> measure

>

> and even more things...

>

> So there are many factors to examine and question

> here.

>

> In some cases of consciousness, the meer thought of

> "remedial measure"

> becomes difficult to believe, such as in the case of

> the absolutist

> vision of the necessity and perfection of karma

> itself, which is

> arguably the highest vision to hold, in which case, no

> such measure are

> desired or believed in at all.

>

> Perhaps better than that is when the seer believes

> that the penultimate

> remedial measure is either complete disassociation

> with the cause of

> the connection of the seer to the karma, as in the

> case of those

> philosophically tracking with Adi Sankaracarya.

>

> Similar to that is how it is with those tracking with

> Vaisnava thought

> Acaryas, who recommend seeing all such negative karmas

> as perfect mercy

> for our detachment from matter, and who thus use only

> attachment to

> Vishnu Bhakti as the one and only necessary remedial

> measure, and thus,

> use elements of such Bhakti as their only measure,

> doing more sadhana,

> doing more praying, etc., in all negative cases in

> life. This is why

> advanced Vaisnavas for example hardly care about their

> charts or dashas

> etc., except in a whimsical passing fashion like a

> passtime for fun or

> passing interest.

>

> Then there are those who are seeing on the platform of

> Karma Khanda, or

> Mimansha, and other karmic operating philosophical

> views, and these

> persons (which include most Westerners) have so many

> options to look

> into. This is where we usually discuss on this list-

> from the level of

> "it's my karma, and I can change it myself through

> thought, action,

> puja, yoga, etc".

>

> Many of the advanced Jyotishis on this list and

> elsewhere are halfway

> or more involved in one of the two first mentioned

> philosophical paths,

> knowingly or unknowingly, and thus we sometimes see

> that responses from

> them are mixed between karmic corrective methods, and

> the methods

> coming from their higher philosophical views, which

> are growing in them.

>

> At the time of death, there isn't much time left to

> arrange for yagyas.

> So, many materially based measures are dependent upon

> a certain set of

> material conditions in order to be started or carried

> out. Thus, they

> are by definition of the material plane moreso than

> say prayer.

>

> The ultimate measure is an attitude adjustment.

> Indeed, a Saint is a

> person who primarily has a different attitude and

> belief about life

> than a regular person. It's not so much what they do,

> puja, yagya, etc., so much as how they think and feel

> spontaneously, all the time. Saints

> have no problem with negativities. This is one of

> their hallmarks. They are "surrendered" to Divine

> Will. Whereas, the normal person, is not, and trys to

> fix perceived negativities in various ways.

>

> So the ultimate remedial measure is the one that

> removes us from

> interest in the negativities at all.

>

> For the attached person, remedial measures are the

> most interesting.

>

> Generally, a remedial measure consists of appeasing a

> Planetary God who

> is currently poised in this life to do negative harm

> to the positive

> material life of the native. So, some authorized puja

> or yagya is

> performed in honorific fashion of the God involved,

> and the native is

> the beneficiary. It's basically like filling out a

> "mercy request

> application" and submitting it. That's what a yagya

> essentially is. The

> priests are helping you to "fill in the form" in the

> proper way. In

> this sense, the puja or yagya is the "proper form" to

> fill out, "the one

> that will be heard" in the heavens.

>

> However, karma is very balanced to begin with. So, if

> you try to change

> one side, it won't work unless you change the other.

> For example, you

> cannot kill your neighbors and expect them to like

> you. So, if you want

> their forgiveness for past agressions, it's best to

> stop agressing. So

> with our karma, if we wish to remove the

>

> RE-ACTION

>

> we have to also remove the original cause or

>

> ACTION

>

> that causes the reaction.

>

> This is generally the case.

>

> If one just removes the ACTION, then the RE-action

> will also dissipate

> in due order.

>

> So therefore the most thoughtful of all persons will

> recommend always

> soul searching for your inner connection to the action

> itself, and then

> removing that with means of inner work, one then

> removes the re-action

> as well. This is going on in all of us always. When we

> try to excercise

> for example, we are hoping for a certain result, but

> really what we're

> doing is trying to remove the action or element in us

> of laziness, and

> as laziness goes on every cell level in us, then our

> body visibly

> transforms externally, and we achieve the result our

> attachment wants.

> But what really happened was through tapasya and

> austerity (the

> excercise) we changed our inner nature on the bodily

> level, and thus we

> got the fruit of a transformed body.

>

> On a very subtle level, if one feels that a planet

> overall is harming

> them repeatedly throughout life, they may wish to

> apply for a "break"

> from that God, through Yagya. Japa is also a yagya, as

> are many other

> practices one can do for free, for oneself.

>

> Yesterday I received an email from Richard Brown, head

> of a Gemological

> Study group here on Earth, who is also a Gem Dealer.

> Richard is always

> pushing the science of Jyotish forward, especially in

> relation to Gems

> and these types of matters in general. So he has

> published on his

> website a listing of the 108 names of each planet. One

> can chant the

> names of the planet(s) they wish to appease. I

> personally think this is

> a very HIGH way of remedial measure, with maximum

> potent effect. Sound

> is very powerful and subtle. Chanting the names of a

> planet with whom

> you are currently misaligned is certainly the quickest

> way to reallign

> oneself properly with that division of Gods energies.

>

> I noticed for example that one of Ketu's names is

> "Bhakta Rakshaka".

> This stood out to me as it was the name of my Gurudev

> as well, or his

> was Bhakti Rakshaka, or the protector of Bhakti.

> Bhakta Rakshaka means

> the "Guardian of the devoted". So, Ketu protects the

> devoted. If

> someone is misaligned with Ketu, they therefore may

> not be very well aligned with protection of the

> devoted persons. They may not therefore properly

> understand devotion. Chanting this mantra will help

> them to accept devotion and devotees as something

> needing protection. This will help their heart for

> example.

>

> I highly believe mantra is the most powerful of

> practices. It is

> practical, and can be started even with a hardened

> heart. It is not

> something you have to be qualified to do, you just

> have to do it. It's

> free, Vedic without question, harmless without

> question, and if done

> sincerely, possibly the most fruitful of all attempts.

>

> Krishna also says that if we devote ourselvs to

> getting fruits from the

> Gods, like removal of bad karma, we will quickly get

> results. He

> implies this is done as a part of nature to increase

> one's faith and

> invovlement in the process of reciprocating with Gods

> in general but that the ultimate problem and need of

> the soul is a little higher than that preoccupation.

> After all, generally speaking, we are, with

> "remedials" aiming to fix something in one life, and

> not trying to fix the whole process of our involvement

> with matter, which is spoken of in Gita and Bhagavatam

> as something higher than pursuing "fixing this one

> life".

>

> I personally am not able to sort out all these things

> so well

> personally. It's a huge mess, this science of life.

> Wow. However, the

> basic inner attitude of service, surrender, and

> detachment from

> specific desires is I find always helpful in

> tolerating life in a more positive way.

>

> For a person on an expansive karmic path, that is, one

> who is seeking

> still fulfillment of desires in this world, there is

> not choice but to

> make deals with Gods, through remedials, and try to

> move on towards

> one's goal. The retractive or exiting path is

> different, in which case

> one seeks to improve their tolerance of what is,

> rather than trying to

> change it. This is why we hear of leppers who "put the

> worms back into

> their wounds when they fall out onto the ground". When

> we hear of such

> things, we know we are dealing with a person who is of

> the mind that

> they are leaving this plane. They have little interest

> left in

> maintaining body and soul together for some material

> aim.

>

> Hinduism can be very confusing in this way, as there

> are teachers and

> preachers on many different levels of realization.

>

> Therefore, before proceeding with such a discussion,

> it is good to nail

> down a few things, namely, what do you believe, and

> what is your honest

> hope and aim. These will at least establish which

> field, plane, or

> level you are operating on truly, and thus you can

> make real progress forward from that point honestly,

> and will more likely find your way to the practices

> which really work for where you're really at.

>

> Like if one is out and out materialistically aiming,

> and really doesn't

> have interest or time for liberation, surrender,

> devotion, etc., then

> yagyas and pujas you pay others to do on your behalf

> may be the best

> option, along with Gems, etc. These are things that

> don't necessarily

> require a change of heart, but which may align you in

> a subtly

> mechanistic way with higher forces. Yogic practices

> were supposedly

> used by "Rakshashas" in scriptures to achieve their

> aims, though they were opposed to Vishnu's dominion in

> general. So the Vedas seem to imply

> that even evil person can use yoga, yagya, yantra,

> tantra, etc., in order to improve their experience in

> the material energy. I believe this is so,knowing God

> to be such an unbiased providor of whatever we desire.

>

> So by applying in a sincere way, usually results can

> be had. Even those

> who are essentially materialistic will be "heard" if

> they perform such

> applications for alleviation of negatives. This is

> Krishnas implied

> promise. So go for it, by whatever means makes the

> most sense to you.

>

> Know that Yagya is essentially formed by proper mantra

> chanting. So

> again, mantra chanting is such a potent force. Then

> with that use the

> directions, the days of the week, the hours of the

> day, and so on, all

> related to the planet(s) in question. Articles and

> artifacts, mantras,

> directions, times, and so on, are what make up yagya.

>

> If you were going to "get a loan" from a bank, you

> would "dress up"

> before going to the bank, in order to "show them

> you're worthy" of the

> loan, and able to "handle repayment". Yagya is like

> that- you dress

> up, you gather the articles of your application,

> things that prove you are ready for the change or

> loan, and then you make your application, and hope for

> the right result. If it is not granted, you try again

> later

> after re-gathering the same things, but maybe

> hopefully in a little

> better way this time around. So you try, try, try

> again, to get what

> you want.

>

> Or you back off and try to go with the flow of your

> karma without

> changing it. Yoga is more so this approach in general.

> Yoga is more a

> process of working with, rather than changing.

>

> Since most of us are mixed between karmic and

> devotional paths and

> methods indeed, so therefore some of each may seem to

> be the right mix

> to propel us forward nicely, ie, a gem may help with

> things which help

> with devotion, which helps with the other, and thus

> they ying yang

> together in an upward spiral. Eventually, some

> practices are left off

> in ones life as it improves, and others are taken up.

> Progressive and

> positive spiritual movement forward will be the result

> of the right

> mix. Our mood should improve. That is the ultimate

> aim. The ultimate aim is "happiness at all times" or

> at least a peacefulness filling the

> consciousness, despite all circumstances.

>

> I hope I am somewhat correct in this forward attempt

> at explaining this

> subject according to my learning thus far. I am humble

> that I may need

> correction on many levels.

>

> peace

>

> das goravani<<

> -----------------

>

> Zoran,

>

> I would like to ask you about fasting. The book I am

> reading requires many fasts for a long time. It seems

> impractical in this country. You said you have had

> success with it. Could you share how long, on average,

> you suggest a fast?

>

> Thank you.

>

> Tulasi devi dasi

>

> >> ahimsa

> Re: Remedial Measures

>

> Namaste jyotisha friends,

> You are all right in your views. That is why I said

> that one should be

> quite cautious when prescribing gems. Also such gems

> are too expensive even for the people living in

> high-standard countries. Let's say for example that

> good yellow sapphire costs at first hand dealer around

> 2500 US$, while it belongs to a cheaper stone. That is

> why, one has to work a lot to afford a stone.. So

> he/she inputs their own work and effort in the form of

> money earned. Other type of

> stones have a role of jewlery only. I personally tend

> to advice

> mantras, which

> is in my own part with the strong Ortodox Christian

> tradition very

> complicated.

> Consequently, most often I advise fasting on the days

> ruled by certain

> grahas.

> For example in case of any marital disourd fasting on

> days ruled by

> lord of

> Upapada Lagna brings immediate releif and wanders

> happen. In my own

> experience

> of advicing fast in the course of two previous years,

> many people felt

> tremendous benefit by fasting. So it is somehow, most

> acceptable to

> general

> population.

> Best wishes

> Zoran

> ----------

>

> Hello Lilina,

>

> Thank you. As I asked Zoran so I will ask you. How

> long to you prescribe a fast?

>

> Tulasi

>

> >> Tue, 19 Jun 2001 23:56:22 +0200

> "Liliana Sucur Perisic"

> <astrolila

> Re: Remedial Measures

>

> Dear Tulasi Devi,

> as far as I know, afflicted or weak BENEFICS should be

> strangthened (by

> wearing certain gems etc.), and Malefics should NOT be

> strangthened but

> APPEASED, by CHANTING MANTRAS performing sacrifices on

> that planet's

> weekday

> and so on.

> This is logical, if you strengthen something which is

> doing you harm,

> then

> it can do even more harm.

> Love,

> Lilina<<

> -------

>

> Pursottam,

>

> You make a valid point. The concern is, where to draw

> the line? Do we tell the nondevotee or even the novice

> they are not qualified to chant? Do we say its ok?

> What are your suggestions on this? As I have

> considered prescribing a little bit of mantra for this

> lady but she can only do so much.

>

> Tulasi

>

> > say "Om Namo Narayanaya" or "Om Namo Shivaya". If

> you have a Guru,

> then

> > you will have so many mantras already to start with

> undoubtedly.

> >

>

> If and when reciting it, be careful with the

> pronouciation of the

> latter

> mantra - Lord Shiva's pancaksari (without the "Om")

> mantra. The correct

> pronounciation is "Om Namah Shivaya", which simply

> tranlates to "Om. I

> offer

> my respectful obeisances unto Lord Shiva." I once

> heard it said that

> when

> people mistakenly say "Om Namo Shivaya" they are

> actually saying that

> Lord

> Shiva should bow to them! Don't know if it's true or

> not, but everytime

> I've

> seen it written in Roman/Devanagari, it's always "Om

> Namah Shivaya".

> "Om

> Namo Narayanaya" is, I believe, the correct way of

> pronouncing the

> astaksari

> mantra of Lord Narayana.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Pursottam

>

> ----------------

> Hello Das Goravani,

>

> Thank you for all the information on the Tulasi plant.

> Actually, I have taken care of her, both in temple and

> at home. Not now though but maybe one day, again.

> Would be nice if she was a Remedial measure. Never

> know.

>

> Tulasi

>

> >> Das Goravani <>

> Srimati Tulasi Maharani, details of care etc

>

> Srimati Tulasi Devi

>

> Caring for a pure devotee in a plant body...

>

> For proper worship of Vishnu Tattva Deities, which

> includes Sri

> Krishna,

> one must have Tulasi leaf and flower to sprinkle on

> the offering plates

> before bringing them on the altar. So growing Tulasi

> plants goes on at

> most temples, if the plants are not available locally

> commonly.

>

> In India, one often sees Tulasi growing on a raised

> pillar in the

> middle

> of the temple courtyards, etc.

>

> Serious Vishnu Bhaktas, like the folks at all Hare

> Krishna centers,

> will

> be growing Tulasi as a regular course of their lives.

> They will have

> seeds and or small plants to share.

>

> However, they are protective about the plants. Some

> will not give them

> out to outsiders who are not "initiated" in Vishnu

> Bhakti through

> surrender to Guru etc. This is to protect Srimati

> Tulasi Devi from

> abuse.

>

> You can find Tulasi as an ingredient in many Ayurvedic

> medicines.

> Strict

> Vaisnavas get great pains seeing that Tulasi is being

> slaughtered for

> medicine.

>

> The only time Vaisnavas will eat Tulasi leaf or flower

> is after is has

> been offered to Vishnu or Krishna on the altar,

> otherwise they consider

> her STRICTLY to be the property of Krishna, like other

> divine

> paraphanelia or personalities, and therefore, not to

> be "taken"

> whimsically by us at any time.

>

> So if one seeks to own a Tulasi plant, one will have

> to acquire seeds

> or

> a small plant. This should be done. Everyone should

> grow Tulasi if

> possible. You can approach the devotees or seek a seed

> source.

>

> The Tulasi plant is scientifically a type of Basil

> plant. It is NOT the

> kinds of Basil you can buy in stores in the West.

> There are many types

> of Basil, and some look an awful lot like Tulasi but

> still are not.

> Tulasi itself comes in a couple minor varieties or sub

> species I guess

> you could say.

>

> It is considered that the Tulasi plant is an expansion

> of the soul of

> Srimati Tulasi Devi, an exalted devotee in Heaven (the

> eternal

> spiritual

> world of the Vedic scriptures telling), and that

> therefore any offense

> towards the plant is to be avoided. The Vaisnavas bow

> to the plant,

> treat it like a deity essentially, worship it

> everyday, give it special

> treatment. In Hare Krishna temples, they sew skirts

> for the pots (as if

> it's a lady with a dress on so to speak). VERY CUTE.

> Very Devotional.

> This is so good for people to see and feel.

>

> It may look weird, but think about it, who the heck

> are you to say!

>

> The final step in installing a Vishnu or Krishna

> deitie is to stick a

> Tulasi leaf on the foot of the deity with Sandalwood

> paste, as if to

> signify,

>

> THIS deitie is now GOD HIMSELF, therefore, we can

> STICK A TULASI LEAF

> on

> it's foot and be CORRECT.

>

> It's the final step in Pran Pratishta, or inviting the

> breath of God

> into the deity. From this, one can grasp the high

> place Tulasi holds in

> Hindu Vaisnava Thought.

>

> The beads worn around the neck and chanted on are made

> from expired

> Tulasi bushes. In Vrndavan India, Krishnas city, many

> are engaged in

> making beeds from old expired Tulasi trunks. The bush

> can grow to be

> large, like a person say, but is usually a small bush,

> only knee high

> from the Earth say. Generally, a Tulasi plant is a

> small bush with a

> firm woody stem and twigs, very soft small almond

> shaped leaves, bushy

> long flowers, and an incredible aroma and taste

> overall. Indeed, the

> leaves are very very tasty, as either a spice or

> whatever, and the

> smell

> of the plant is something else. It's very special.

>

> Note that Vrndavan is considered to be essentially a

> forest of Tulasi

> plants, in subtle essence anyway, don't expect to see

> that now on

> Earth,

> but there are places in India and Hawaii where there

> are TONS of Tulasi

> growing wild.

>

> The Tulasi plant prefers warmth and humidity. I have

> raised Tulasi

> houses successfully in Portland Oregon and Londong

> England, two places

> that don't naturally qualify at all. She'll die

> outside in such places.

>

> So for most of america and most of the Western World,

> you have to raise

> her indoors, but she's not an indoor plant. So, you

> have to give her

> special circumstances. The best thing is a small

> indoor greenhouse, so

> that you can control the humidity and warmth. If she

> is warm and damp,

> like as if in a jungle, then she'll grow like crazy

> and be bright green

> and healthy. This is such a pleasure to see. She is an

> incredibly

> beautiful and stunning plant. Really. It's a sweet

> feeling to raise

> Tulasi.

>

> But if she dies in your care, it's not a sweet feeling

> at all. It's

> rather sad, and it happens. It's best to take this

> seriously.

>

> I generally build an indoor greenhouse, from floor to

> ceiling, but it

> can be as small as 3 ft high deep and wide, simply by

> putting up strips

> of wide thick plastic, like plastic tarps or whatever,

> glass is best,

> get as fancy as you want. I put in shelves and full

> spectrum plant

> lights. Everything you need is available in all modern

> places. Then I

> bring in She. I spray her a few times a day, and keep

> her soil moist.

> She likes loam, not acidic soil. Forget what they say

> about making it

> sandy, no, make it light, as her tender roots will

> then go crazy in

> that

> nice black rich light soil as she grows. She'll be

> happy.

>

> If you care about her, you'll be able to feel her.

> She's very

> sensitive.

> She's soft and supple. She's not at all agressive. Not

> too wet, but not

> too dry, just right, and with nice light, she can

> handle alot of light

> in the right temperature and humidity.

>

> She dies usually from cold drafts, drying up, dry air,

> spiders, white

> flies, spider mites, other types of plant mites, the

> presence of dogs

> or

> cats or other ignorant innocently abusive animals,

> neglect of spirit,

> and bad vibes in the home which don't welcome her Lord

> Sri Vishnu

> (purity in the home is good). She's a Bhakti

> Barometer. She is so tasty

> and good and kind that all forms of bugs love to eat

> her. You must not

> let them, but you must not use harsh anything around

> her. We used to

> pick off small bugs of all types one by one by hand to

> avoid poisons or

> making her watch carnage of critters, which she also

> doesnt like to

> see.

>

> You can pick a few leaves each day, the ones that want

> to mature and

> fall off come off easily, and you place them on top of

> the food just

> before you offer it. You do not use her in the

> cooking. You set the

> fresh leaves right on top of the food as you bring it

> to Krishna. Just

> lightly wash off each leaf first, that's all. You can

> also pick the

> flowers and use them in the exact same way. You can

> also just give

> these

> to Krishna, or God, directly, by placing them on the

> altar, and

> offering

> them with a prayer, or on Krishnas feet, or make a

> garland of them and

> put it on Krishna.

>

> After these leaf and flowers are offered, you may and

> should eat them.

> They are tasty, good for you, and good for devotion.

> Never treat them

> bad in any way.

>

> To learn more about Tulasi, hang out with the Tulasi

> Pujari (caretaker)

> at any Hare Krishna or other Vaisnava temple, or place

> where Tulasi is

> grown and worshipped fully. There are books in

> Sanskrit, Hindi and

> English just on the matter of her Divinity and Care.

>

> Jai Srimati Tulasi Maharani<<

> -------------------------

>

> I have to agree with Chirs here, not so much for

> myself but for those I would give this remedial

> measure to. How does one get them to chant this much?

> Or, are there lesser numbers one can chant?

>

> Tulasi

>

> ckevill

> Re: Planetary Mantras

>

> >

> >Yes, one chants the whole list.

>

> Whoa! That's a lot of chanting! :-) I know there is

> a difference of

> opinion out there about pronounciation, but how close

> should one be to

> the "correct" one?

>

> Thanks again.

>

> Chris

> --------------------

>

> Manoj,

>

> I very much liked your approach, and I too am not so

> inclined toward SA. Though what you are saying seems

> to leave some of the things out that have been

> described on the list as helpful. Do you have any

> ideas on these?

>

> Tulasi

>

> >Hello Marcia,

>

> How are you doing ? Wendy was right. Normally I dont

> prescribe or use

> gems in my scheme of things. My scheme of things rest

> solely on what

> Parashara has advised in the "Shanti Adhyay" of Brihat

> Parashar Hora Shastra and there he says only three

> things can ameliorate one's sufferings and these are

> "Jap", "Tap" and "Daan". Saturn is Krishna devotee. So

> in case of Saturn, it is advisable to do Pooja for

> Lord Krishna.

>

> best regards,

>

> Manoj

>

> --------------------

>

> Hello Nitin,

>

> >>I had a general quesiton regarding the

> recommendation of stones to the

> native. Is there a difference between having a stone

> on the chest (on a

> chain) as opposed to say, a stone on a ring?<

>

> I have often wondered this myself and hope some

> answers are sent in.

>

> Tulasi devi dasi

> ----------------

>

> Hello Wendy,

>

> Some of the astrological sanskrit still behooves me.

> (pratyantar dasa)??

> What I am getting is that she is at the end of her

> SUN/jupiter period, and yes, soon to change over into

> her SUN/saturn period, which should be much better for

> her. I too was thinking it was her Mars causing

> accidents (lord of 7th in 4th). Her job, in my humble

> opinion, it is good she is changing it as this is how

> she is starting to feel. She has told me she is not

> really happy in it. I also told her to make sure she

> is doing what is her natural propensity as in general,

> she should be doing ok. I thank you for the suggested

> remedial measures!

>

> Tulasi

>

> >>> Hello Tulasi,

>

> Provided I have the data correct, this native is

> currently in a vidasa

> (pratyantar dasa) of Asc lord Venus. Venus is in 4th

> house of home/home

> comforts and is conjunct 12th lord of expenses

> (Mars)...also, as you

> stated is the case, Mars can result in

> injuries...particularly as transiting Mars

> is aspecting Ascendant. The question mark hovering

> over her job

> (career) is

> evident with 10th lord Saturn transiting Ascendant,

> aspected by 12th

> lord

> Mars. Further to this is the influence of Ketu on

> vidasa lord VE. Ketu

> signifies accidental incidents/unexpected, unusual

> happenings etc. Ketu

> is

> currently transiting 8th house...and she's in KE

> sookshmantar dasa.

>

> So a few things need to be addressed: 1) Mars needs to

> be propitiated,

> i.e.

> fasting on Tuesdays and giving away in charity the

> things connected

> with

> Mars,

> 2) Ketu also needs pacifying being in very tight

> conjunction with

> VE

> and

> 3) Ascendant lord Venus himself needs

> assistance...this is

> singularly

> the most important issue. For this native, with 5/9

> lords conjunct 4th

> lord Sun in 5th I would suggest the Venus Mantra:

>

> "hima-kunda mrnalabham daityanam paramam gurum

> sarva-sastra-pravaktaram bhargavam pranamamy aham"

>

> Chanting should begin on Friday and the mantra should

> be chanted 16,000

> times. Usually one recites 108 times per day (one

> mala) and continues

> every day (without a break) until the prescribed

> number have been completed.

>

> Having said all that I see that her VE vidasa is

> almost at an end

> (finishes June 22)...so some improvement on the

> homefront is likely. Also Sun vidasa would be a

> favourable time for success with mantras etc....

>

> Regards, Wendy<<<

>

> Get personalized email addresses from Mail - only $35

> a year! http://personal.mail./

>

> gjlist-

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

June 21, 2001

Hello Zodiac,

Thank you for your reply, but I was looking for more of an explanation as to

how one actually chose the particular kavach...I think the process is a bit

different from how one chooses gems, etc...not sure, very not sure!

For the native spoken of, his greatest difficulty (I see), is Saturn bhukti.

I've seen him through his entire Mercury dasa and whilst I agree Mercury is

heavily afflicted and the dasa as a whole is not easy for him, his current

Saturn bhukti has brought dreadful suffering in it's wake...dreadful! I was

looking for some easing of this bhukti in particular.

Best Regards, Wendy

> Dear Wendy,

>

> The appropriate kavacha for him will be Sudarshana Yantra.

>

> His Mercury is heavily afflicted and is ruling as the Dasa Ruler now.

>

> G Kumar

> Vedic Astrologer

> www.zodiaccomputers.com

June 21, 2001

Dear Wendy,

The chart you submit is Piscean ascendant, most of Piscean suffer in

relationship & marital compatibility as their 7th lord Mercury(lord of

spouse)frequently conjunct with malefic planets Sun & Venus in transit. In

this case his Mercury is under influence of malefic Rahu,Ketu. Emotion &

children lord Moon is weak due to in the state of infancy, bed comfort lord

Saturn is also 0 deg. and marital tie lord Venus is placed in house of

losses. These are the reasons for obstruction in relationship & marital

compatibility.

Generally People ruin their life due to hasty decisions therefore one should

utilize the experience of a competent astrologer for success in life thru

Astral remedies. In his case strengthening of benefic Mercury & Moon by

wearing of Kavach will help a great deal.

I am elaborating about complete Astral remedial measures below:-

There are two parts of remedial measures.

1.ASTRAL REMEDIES- To appease the malefic planets by the way of doing

charities & propitiations. Through these certain & ritual charities both the

transit and natal malefic planets will appease. You know in transit the

planets are on their path, they make aspect and conjunction to each other.

Whenever the malefic transit planets form an aspect & conjunction in the

transit & nativity, it creates hurdles & obstructions in giving the results

of the benefic planets. If any person do these certain ritual remedies every

morning (it will take only 5-10 minutes only) it will help in reducing the

evil malefic impact of the malefic

planets and allow the benefic planets to shower their significance on the

native.

2.-KAVACH/AMULET- This is the second part of the Astral remedial measure.

Whenever in the native chart the benefic planets are weak due to its

placement, strength, in the term of debilitation(weakness)and afflicted by

malefic

planets. In this situation the benefic planets cannot promote their

significance in getting the desired results by native. For strengthening the

benefic planets we advice to wear the Kavach/Amulet. The Kavach is made in

Silver worn like a pendant around the neck in the elected auspicious time

and it contains mystical numbers of

benefic planets on it, according to their planet. It will be worn in next

elected auspicious time. The

auspicious time will be elected as per the geographical

location(longitude-latitude) of the place of wearing Kavach by the native.

Kavach is beneficial for all benefic planets in the nativity.

The auspicious time is elected according to certain parameters ,i.e

a) When the benefic planets in transit are not in the sign of debilitation

and their placement are not in the bad houses(6th, 8th & 12th). Those houses

which promote

dispute, disease, theft, fire, arson, obstruction, denial, accidents,

addiction, hospitalization, losses, etc.

b) The placement of malefic planets should be in good houses and not near

the midpoint of the ascendant, also not afflicting any benefic planets and

there should be no affliction to any malefic planets.

These remedies are not only recommended for the bad periods in life but also

recommended for good periods because due to these remedies native gets

maximum result, which will be more than the actual results of the benefic

planets.

As far as our research & studies goes whosoever has adopted and performed

the complete Astral remedies he has definitely achieved his desires and has

enjoyed his life.

Generally people confuse in only functional nature of planets in other

systems, this is very easy in system approach, if someone consider the

functional nature of planet & its strength, he can analyse whole chart in

less than 3 minutes and tell the problem without asking the quarrant. This

skill will come after practicing SA regularly.

Hope this helps.

With Best Wishes

Narinder Juneja

Sr. Astrologer

www.mywebastrologer.com

-

Wendy Vasicek <wenvas

Thursday, June 21, 2001 8:36 AM

Re: [gjlist] Re: Remedial Measures

> Whoops! Correct details...including time :-)

>

> Male

> 28 Jan 1964

> 10.50 AM

> Melbourne, Australia

>

> > Dear Narinder,

> >

> > If my memory serves me correctly you are expert in kavach (amulet)

> therapy.

> > Whilst most of us have a fair knowledge of the appropriate mantras and

> gems

> > our knowledge of the use of amulets is somewhat lacking. I know mine

> is...I

> > know a little, but not enough to be comfortable about advising people

> about

> > these...they're also more affordable than gems, I believe. Could you,

for

> > the benefit of all, tell us what you can about their use, scriptural

> > reference to their use, etc.

> >

> > I have the chart of a native who is suffering a great deal in life. He

> would

> > never be able to afford gems, nor would he be inclined towards

> > mantras...could you suggest how a kavach could help in this instance.

The

> > birth details are:

> >

> > Male

> > 28 Jan 1964

> > Melbourne, Australia.

> >

> > Best Regards, Wendy

>

> gjlist-

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

June 21, 2001

I'm sorry Manoj,

But I have to disagree with you strongly. What you're saying is that a

native suffering stomach ulcers should not take any medication, but rather

suffer his karma, otherwise he's not spiritual, but materialistic...this is

terribly draconic! This line of thinking would also bar diabetics from

taking any medication (remedy), or the surgeon from removing a cancerous

tumour. I feel very strongly that a remedy is a remedy, is a

remedy...whether it's in the form of ulcer medication, diabetic insulin,

surgical operation, kavach, mantra or gem...a remedy is a remedy pure and

simple!

A native suffering pain will find it very difficult to turn his thoughts to

the divine. A man struggling to provide for his family has no time for the

divine...it's a fallacy that one needs to suffer to be spiritual. Help to

eleviate man's suffering and you help him to turn within.

Regards, Wendy

> In their cases they need nothing because they know the importance of

> suffering one's Prarabdh. They would continue to suffer and keep

remembering

> him because they know that the sins of one's past life have to be suffered

> and cannot be postponed. Because they are spiritual they know it and those

> who are not look for remedies elsewhere. These people (spiritual) know

that

> the one who has given sufferings is the only one empowered to obliterate

it.

> Therefore they keep praying to him and keep suffering. I have met a number

> of them. One was a great person. Once after his devotee left his room, he

> developed ulcer in his stomach. Before meeting his devotee he was

perfectly

> alright. He did not take any medicine. He told his followers that it is

> better to suffer one's bad karmas rather than finding ways and means of

> overcoming them or postponing them. They are not bothered with the

> materialistic world and therefore take no materialistic remedies.

>

> best wishes and regards,

>

> Manoj

June 21, 2001

No problems Wendy,

The one who suffered this was no ordinary soul. He was an enlightened one.

He was the one who did not take any solid food for 2 years before he left

his body. He was taking only a "tulsi" leaf and water. Thats all. Such

enlightened ones know the importance of suffering one's Prarabdh, that is

the Karmas of the previous life rather than tagging it along for the next

life.

I have seen it happen. I fought with him out of anguish. But his advise was

: Suffer your Prarabdh. Because if you try and remove it with some remedy,

it would not be destroyed but would manifest in some other way in life. It

has to manifest. So better suffer happily. He accepted money from no one. It

is easier said than done because no ordinary soul can do such a thing. Or in

other words you can say that it is easy to preach than to follow. In fact,

in other words, it means total surrender to God for everything in life. And

believe me, I have seen miracles happening in his presence. Earlier I also

used to use the same logic and the same reasoning which you have given. But

it was his presence and watching him closely that changed my views totally.

They are Yogis, Sadhus in real sense. Very difficult to find in today's

society and today's India. There may be some but they are not known to

majority.

And yes, in today's terms such people are taken as strangers, total

strangers to the way of life we normally lead.

And I am happy that you raised this point. You know, my way of doing things

by now. Accept what appeals to you and reject what does not.

with best wishes,

Manoj

_______________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

June 21, 2001

Dear Manoj,

Where is your atmakarak graha(charkarak)? The bad karma would certainly

manifest, but the main point is to have strong mind, since the mind carries

impressions of grief and happiness When such mind finds its real home, no bad

karma can touch it and create greif.. However, for ordinary people grief is very

real, and we should strengthen their minds by advising them, and thereby help

them reach their spiritual goal.. It may take time, but it is important that the

process commences..When atmakarak is strong and tapaswi yogas are found in the

chart, the person has strength to suffer and endure his/her own bad karma..Look

at my own chart, dhanu lagna with exalted venus in 4th house, with shani and

rahu, while guru and ketu are placed in 10th house. Venus being influenced by

jupiter, ketu and shani gives Tapaswi yoga, and shani being atmakarak varghotama

in pisces gives strength to endure hardships. Rahu with shani create bondage of

the soul by material wishes, however, shani dominates being atmakarak. I am

enduring my harships and agree with what you previously said.. however, one

should have tremendous strength and understanding. It cannot be expected from

all people..I was blessed enough to be given Dharmakarmaadhipati Yog coupled

with Saraswati Yog formed by budh and surya in 2nd house and chandra in the 1st

decanate in 8th house in cancer. This knowledge of jyotisha(2/8th axis) helped

me accept my destiny and bad karmas.. Other people should first of all raise

their level of consciousness by mantras and prayers and then they can accept

what you are saying., and which is ultimetly true..However, I personally beleive

that most jyotisha would agree with you as far as their own lives are

concerened..

Best wishes,

Zoran

Manoj Pathak wrote:

> No problems Wendy,

>

> The one who suffered this was no ordinary soul. He was an enlightened one.

> He was the one who did not take any solid food for 2 years before he left

> his body. He was taking only a "tulsi" leaf and water. Thats all. Such

> enlightened ones know the importance of suffering one's Prarabdh, that is

> the Karmas of the previous life rather than tagging it along for the next

> life.

>

> I have seen it happen. I fought with him out of anguish. But his advise was

> : Suffer your Prarabdh. Because if you try and remove it with some remedy,

> it would not be destroyed but would manifest in some other way in life. It

> has to manifest. So better suffer happily. He accepted money from no one. It

> is easier said than done because no ordinary soul can do such a thing. Or in

> other words you can say that it is easy to preach than to follow. In fact,

> in other words, it means total surrender to God for everything in life. And

> believe me, I have seen miracles happening in his presence. Earlier I also

> used to use the same logic and the same reasoning which you have given. But

> it was his presence and watching him closely that changed my views totally.

> They are Yogis, Sadhus in real sense. Very difficult to find in today's

> society and today's India. There may be some but they are not known to

> majority.

>

> And yes, in today's terms such people are taken as strangers, total

> strangers to the way of life we normally lead.

>

> And I am happy that you raised this point. You know, my way of doing things

> by now. Accept what appeals to you and reject what does not.

>

> with best wishes,

>

> Manoj

>

> _______________________

> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

>

> gjlist-

>

> Your use of is subject to

June 21, 2001

Dear Zoran,

I understand Charkarakas. And I understand Atmakarak and the strength of

Atmakarak but out of the seven karaka scheme not the eight one as one person

in Delhi advocates. And most of us take support behind Brihat Parashar Hora

Shastra that it also recommends eight Karakas. But those of them have not

read one translation of BPHS which is quite an old one, much much before

G.C. Sharma or Santhanam and it gives only seven Karakas and the scheme of

computing Padas which is different from the eighth karaka scheme.

Coming back to the subject. I agree that one has to have great inner

strength. And where does that strength comes from. It comes from one's own

horoscope. I am also a Dhanur lagna, (the finest sublimation point of

energy) and have Dharma-karmadhipati yoga. My dear friend, I understand

these yogas well. And so only, I was worried when the war had broken out in

your country. My Atmakarak is also Saturn. These days, I see that the moment

a person starts reading elementary astrology, he starts talking of

spirituality. Especially in the West. Please note, these are general

comments and not meant for anyone on the list. These are my musings.

My views are quite different from most of the people but I take pride in

that these views are mine and I do conform to them. I do try to adopt them.

I do try to understand astrology in the right spirit. And therefore, I

strongly believe in the Karma theory. I know, the use of gems, kavachs,

talisman or things like that do no good in the long run. They are short term

medicines. What one has to strive in life is long term remedies and these

long term remedies can be achieved only through "JapTap" and "Daan". But

then those believe in reincarnation would only buy this theory because they

are ones who would like to improve their future births.

I agree with you that one has to be strong to understand these things. I

pray to god to always grant me strength to be able to withstand the vagaries

of life with his benediction. I bow to him. Let me stop here. Hope you

understand what I am trying to say.

I dont know how many of you have had a reading done by Bhrigu Shastris in

India or Palm leaf readers of Orissa. The readings in such Shastras would

make you understand the futility of such remedies like gems, kavachs,

talisman etc.

I will quote a reading tomorrow done by Bhrigu Shastri which astonished me

and made my belief in Karma theory stronger and also made me to understand

the futility of short term remedies.

with best wishes and best regards,

Manoj

_______________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

June 21, 2001

Dear Manjo,

Do you have the contact information on Bhrigu Shastris in order to get a

reading?

Thank you, Theresa

Manoj Pathak [manojpathak]

Thursday, June 21, 2001 9:37 AM

gjlist