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Posts posted by RadheRade1657


    Hey by the way, where do all the bhikshunies hide themselves ? I haven't seen many.


    In monasteries (called Sangha in Buddhism)... where all nuns live. There aren't many Bhikkunis (or even Bhikkus, for that matter) in India or in the West b/c there aren't as many Buddhists in these places, but there are many in East Asian countries. Some even live in joint-monasteries, where the monks and nuns live on the same grounds. ;)


    I meant to say enforce Ahimsa, ARJji.

    Thanks for your input however.

    The only reason the Dalai Lama is eating meat is because all these religions have become corrupt due to politics and the influence of Kali yuga.


    Hey Indulekha Ji! :)

    I think that the reason why H.H. Dalai Lama eats meat is b/c it's hard to come by vegetables in the mountains where he lives. I know that he's encouraged ppl who live in places where vegetables grow in abundance throughout the year to be full-time vegetarians, and for ppl who only have a season or so of a fertile period to be vegetarians during that season.

    But... you are very right... all religion has become corrupt during the Kali Yuga... we can even see it in our own blessed Sanatan Dharma. :(

    Jai Sita-Ram!


    What color flowers does Lord Narasimha prefer for his worship?

    I don't think it should matter what colors. Whatever color you prefer. Sri Krishna (who is Narasimha) says in the Gita, "If one offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, fruit or water, I will accept it with joy." He'll accept whatever you offer Him with love :)


    wow very inspiring words. Thanks a million...understanding the words, helps bring meaning to the chalisa.It's great when you can understand what you say or sing when praying.It brings much more heart felt feelings.

    Thanks again..If you can translate the hanuman chalisa in english that would be wonderful.

    You're so welcome! :D I, myself, usually say the Chalisa in English and then in Sanskrit. It helps me grasp the meaning better. So, here you go :) :

    Having cleansed the mirror of my mind with the dust of the lotus feet of Sri Gurudev, I now proceed to describe the untarnished glory of Sri Ram which bestows Dharma, Artha, Kama, and Moksha

    Realizing the inadequacy of my intellect, I meditate upon you Hanumanji, son of the Lord of Winds. Grant me strength, intelligence and true knowledge, and remove all my hardship and blemishes

    Victory to You O ! Hanumanji, ocean of wisdom and virtue.

    Victory to You O ! Hanumanji , enlightener of the three worlds.

    You are the messenger of Sri Rama, abode of immeasurable strength, and son of Anjani, known as Pavansuta

    You are a great hero of exceptional valor with a body as strong as a thunderbolt. You are the dispeller of wicked thoughts and a companion of good thoughts and wisdom

    You are golden color and wear fine clothes.

    You wear shining earrings and have beautiful curly hair.

    You have the thunderbolt and flag in hand, whilst the sacred thread across your shoulder is made of sacred grass

    You are the incarnation of Lord Shiva and son of Kesari, and you are adored by the whole world.

    You are learned, virtuous and extremely intelligent and you are always eager to do the work of Sri Rama

    You delight in listening to the glories of the Lord and you have Rama, Lakshaman, and Sita residing in your mind

    You assumed a subtle form when you revealed yourself to Sita ; and by assuming an awesome form you burnt the whole city of Lanka.

    Then you assumed a gigantic form and destroyed the demons, thereby accomplishing the mission of Lord Rama.

    When you brought the life-giving medicinal herb (sanjivini) and revived Lakshman, Sri Ram embraced you joyfully

    Sri Rama extolled you greatly and declared you to be as dear to Him as His brother Bharat

    Taking you into His embrace, Sri Rama stated that even Seshanag (the thousand headed serpent) sings praises of Your glory.

    The sages Sanak, Sanatan, Sanandan, and Sanat Kumar Brahma and other Gods, Lord Shiva, Narada, Saraswati and Sesnag, Yamaraja, Kuber, the guardian deities, poets and scholars have all failed to adequately describe your glory

    You rendered an invaluable service to Sugriva by introducing him to Sri Rama and restoring him to the throne.

    The whole world knows that Vibhishana heeded your advice and became the lord of Lanka

    You swallowed the sun from a distance of sixteen thousand miles, considering it to be a sweet fruit

    Carrying the Lord’s ring in your mouth, you crossed the ocean, there is no wonder in that all the difficult tasks of the world are rendered easily possible by your grace

    You are the gate-keeper of Sri Rama’s kingdom, where none may enter without your permission

    He who seeks refuge in you enjoys happiness. What is there to be afraid of if you are the protector ?

    You alone are able to control your energy ; all three worlds tremble before it.

    No evil spirits dare approach one who utters your name as Mahavir, the Great Warrior.

    All diseases are destroyed and pains vanish when your powerful name is repeated incessantly

    Hanumanji frees from difficulties all those who contemplate upon him in thought, word and deed

    You fulfilled all the missions of Lord Rama who fulfills the divine desires of the devotees engaged in penance and together with any other desires any devotee may have, they will ultimately secure the imperishable fruit.

    Your glory prevails throughout the four ages of Satya Yuga, Treta Yuga, Dwarapa Yuga, and Kali Yuga; and your fame radiates throughout the world

    You are the protector of the holy saints and sages, and, beloved of Rama, you destroy demons and all other evil forces.

    Mother Sita granted you the boon that you will be the bestower of the eight supernatural powers and the nine forms of wealth

    The essence of devotion to Sri Rama is with you, may you always be the servant of the Lord.

    Through devotion to you one obtains Sri Rama and the sorrows of Samsara are culminated.

    At the end of a lifespan of such devotion one goes to the abode of Sri Rama and is there known as a devotee of the Lord .

    All happiness is granted even to that devotee who worships no other deity apart from Hanumanji.

    All difficulties and pains are removed for those who contemplate on the all powerful Hanumanji

    Victory, victory, victory to you O Hanumanji, as our supreme Guru, give us your grace .

    He who recites this chalisa a hundred times is sure to be freed from worldly bondage and enjoy great happiness

    He who reads Hanuman chalisa will become perfect, as Lord Shiva is the witness.

    Tulasidas, the eternal servant of the Lord, prays that the Lord take residence in his heart.

    May Hanumanji, who removes difficulties, who has an auspicious form and is king of the Gods, dwell in my heart along with Sri Rama, Sri Lakshman and Sita Ma.


    Jai Sita Ram :) Jai Hanuman :) Jai Lakshman :) Jai Mata Ji :)

  5. Jayati mahakali jayati, adya kali mata | Jai karala vadane jayati, jagata matu vikhyata ||

    Jai jai rupa pracandika, mahakalika devi |

    Jayati jayati siva-candrika, sura nara munijana sevi ||

    Jayati jayati raktasana, raudramukhi rudrani |

    ari sonita khappara bharani, khaRaga dharini suci pani ||

    jai jai jai maiya sri kali | jayati khaRaga kara khappara vali ||

    jayati mahamaya vikarla | rudra-sakti kalahum ko kala ||

    mam madhu kaitabha ke vadha hetu | pragati sri hari ke tana se tu ||

    syamala gata mata tava sohata | ravi sama chavi lakhi chavipati mohata ||

    dasa mukha tisa netra mana bhavana | bhala bala sasi mukuta suhavana ||

    ko chavi varani sakai mam teri | syama kesa janu ghata sugheri ||

    ura ari mundamala chavi chajata | astra sastra dasa hasta virajata ||

    khappara khaRaga trisula kuthari | gada cakra dhanu samkha sudhari ||

    ari kra katana ghamghara rajai | amga-amga suci bhusana sajai ||

    ramjita rakta dasa carana karala | jihi visala rupa vikarala ||

    jabahim attahasa mam karati | kampata thara-thara thara-thara dharati ||

    adi sakti dhani jaga dhatri | maha pralaya ki adhisthatri ||

    mam tava carana pragata sri samkara | rasana bahara vadana bhayamkara ||

    dhani dhani kalakatte ke kali | sahasabhuji sri sivapura vali ||

    tu hi kali siya dashamukha naashyo | sri raghupati pada vijaya vilaaso ||

    Jaga sukha shaanti hetu kalyaanaa | kariin ruupa dhaarana vidhi naanaa ||

    tu hi sri krsna rupa ki kali | candrahasa murali kara vali ||

    caturbhuji tanu astabhuji dhari | kahum dasabhuja astadasakari ||

    kahun battisa causatha bhuja dharata | kahun sahasra bhuja kri ari marata ||

    tu hari sakti ardha nisi vali | tiksnadanta rasana risi vali ||

    raktacandika kahRaga dharini | rudra candrika khala samharini ||

    sri satasrmgi adya kali | kali khoha nivasini vali ||

    adi matu tuhi nara siramali | tumhim kamsa hanani vaiatali ||

    tumhim bhadrakali kailasi | sada khalana ke rakta ki pyasi ||

    khaca-khaca-khaca sira kati satru kara | bhara-bhara-bhara sonita khappara bhara ||

    dala-dala-dala danava bhaksana kara | chala-chala-chala-chala rakta khalana kara ||

    gani-gani-gani ari karahu nipata | dhani-dhani-dhani sri kali mata ||

    yahi aradasa dasa kaham mai | purahu asa tu hou sahai ||

    paryo garha samkata aba bhari | kehi ka maiya aja pukari ||

    cari cora lagyo maga mohi | karana cahata raghupati ko drohi ||

    hai yehi satruna ka bhupa | kama krodha moha lobha sarupa ||

    inhim dehum yadi anta pachari | tabahim milahim bhagavanta murari ||

    dujo ika arja yaha mata | toRahu sapadi khalana ke tamta ||

    jete dusta maha aparadhi | badakarmi pamara baka vyadhi ||

    jo nita binu aparadha satavata | dharma karma subha ho na pavata ||

    tinhim matu tu caki ja hali | bacana putra ki hoya na khali ||

    puni bani aindri avahu mata | adbhuta sakti dikhavahu mata ||

    jhatapata lehu khalahim samhari | mori matu jani karahu abari ||

    bharahu santi sukha dhana jana dhama | ati ananda hoi yaha grama ||

    puni puni vinavahi sundaradasa | maiya pura karahu abhilasa ||

    mahakalika carita yaha, ika prakara ka mamtra |

    sarva kamana purana prati, manahu yantra aru tantra ||

    kali calisa parhai, lali cahai ju koi | kali ari ka nasa ho, khali vacana na hoi ||

    kali hari ka teja haim, ari ko nasana hara | hari ki purana sakti haim, karata hetu samhara ||

    jehi sumirata saba asa, lahata purana jaga narinara |

    gavata sundaradasa, pavata ati subha sahaja phala ||


    Victory to you, O Mahakali ! Victory to you, O primordial source of

    all beings ! Victory to you, O formidable looking goddess, who are

    renowned as the very mother of the world !

    Victory, all victory to you, O great goddess Mahakalika, of terrible

    and frightening aspect ! Victory to you, O Moon on the locks of Siva,

    who are ever adored by gods, men, hermits, and devotees.

    Victory, all victory to you, O consort of Rudra; you are fearsome to

    look at and prefer a drink of hot blood; you are described as having

    a sword in your hollowed hand and as one who fills her cranial bowl

    with the blood of her victim.

    Glory, glory, all glory to you, O Kali, the bearer of a cranial bowl

    and a sword in your hands. Victory to you, O terrible Delusion, the

    might of Rudra, and the very death of Death.

    O Mother, it is for the slaughter of the demons Madhu and Kaitabha

    that you appeared from the body of Hari. O Mother, your dark form

    radiant as the sun looks so splendidly winsome that the god of beauty

    himself cannot but succumb to its charm

    You are ten-faced with thirty attractive eyes, the crescent moon and

    a lovely coronet on your head, O Divine Mother; who can describe your

    comeliness and your dark hair like massed clouds?

    The beauty of the garland made of your victims' skulls looks splendid

    as do the weapons and missiles in all your ten hands. You carry a

    cranial bowl, a sword, a three-progned trident, an axe, a club, a

    disc, a bow and a conch, all in their proper places.

    The beautiful skirt made of the severed arms of your enemies looks so

    becoming like the sacred ornaments adorning every part of your body.

    Your ten dread feet are all smeared with blood and your long tongue

    sticks out, rendering your appearance frightening.

    When, O Mother, you laugh aloud, the earth shivers (like one suffering

    from shaking chills). Blessed are you, O Primordial Energy and foster-

    mother of the world, you are presiding deity of Doom (who causes

    universal destruction).

    O Mother Kali ! It is your divine feet that made Siva's appearance

    possible in the world; you have long protruding tongue and a

    frightening look. Blessed, all blessed are you, O Mother Kali of

    Calcutta, who are thousand-armed and who have your abode in Sivapura.

    O Kali ! as Sita you were instrumental in bringing about Ravana's

    destruction and Raghupati's which, appearing, became amorous of the

    Lord's feet. You assumed manifold forms for the well-being, peace and

    happiness of the world.

    You manifested yourself in the form of Krishna and let your sword be

    mysteriously transformed into a flute in his hand. Sometimes you take

    on the form of Visnu with his four arms, at other times of one

    (Durga, for example) having eight arms, at still other one having ten

    or eighteen arms.

    You sometimes appear with thirty-two arms, at other times with just

    the double of this number, and at still others multiply your arms

    into a thousand in order to slay your enemies. You are the very power

    of Hari invoked with prayer at midnight; you have long sharp fangs

    and a protruding tongue showing your blood-thirsty and fearsome


    You are furious combatant (raktacandika) with a sword in your hand

    (you are usually shown on the battlefield or in a cremation ground

    where you sit on a corpse surrounded by jackals and goblins); you are

    at once soothing like the moon and fearsome like Rudra and the slayer

    of the wicked. You are sublime as a hundred peaked mountain and a

    primordial deity of black or dark complexion. You dwell amongst dark,

    untrodden caverns.

    You are the original mother (of all beings) and at the same time a

    dread deity with human heads for your garland; you're the very slayer

    of Kamsa and subduer of ghosts and goblins; you're Bhadrakali, a

    dweller on Kailasa and one who thirsts for the blood of the wicked.

    Again and again you strike off the heads of your enemies (with your

    slashing sword) and fill your cranial bowl with blood (oozing from

    corpses). You gorge yourself on the demon host one after another and

    rushing on and on shed their wicked blood.

    Blessed, blessed, all blessed are you, O Mother Kali, who cause your

    enemies to lick the dust one after another. I entreat you, O Mother,

    to fulfil your votary's expectations and grant him your favour.

    I am in a perilous predicament, O Mother, and know not whom to call

    for help. I am being pursued on the rough roads of life by four

    robbers who are bent upon turning me against the lord of the house of

    Raghus, Rama.

    These are my prime enemies, the sovereign lords of all the deadly

    evils; lust, anger, infatuation and avarice. If you overthrow them

    (and abandon me not to my troubles), I would be blessed with devotion

    to Lord Krishna.

    I also urge you, Mother, to put an end to the unending string of the

    wicked (bent on vexing me) immediately. All those wicked souls, who

    are confirmed sinners, evil-doers, mean, and suffer from idle

    volubility and vain chattering.

    Those who cause vexation without being provoked, and who render all

    religious observances propitious activities fruitless, you pick up, O

    Mother, and slaughter them without delay; let not this prayer of your

    son go in vain.

    I entreat you, O Mother, to reveal yourself as the power of Indra (or

    as Indrani or as Durga) and display your wondrous might. Slay the

    villains promptly without further delay.

    Fill the homes of your devotees with peace, happiness and prosperity,

    so that this countryside becomes seat of growing exultation and

    felicity. Sundardasa bows to you again and again, O Mother, and

    supplicates you to fulfil his expectation.

    This hymn to the acts of the formidable Kali is like a sacred formula

    capable of fulfilling every wish as if it were a magic talisman and a

    charm. He who wishes to attain brilliance should read this hymn to

    Kali; for it will ensure the destruction of all those who are hostile

    to Kali promise which would never go in vain. Kai incarnates the very

    vital force and power of Hari with which she destroys her enemies for

    the well-being of the world.

    Every man and woman who seeks refuge in Mother's protective grace

    and, abandoning all other support, meditates on her, reaps all the

    auspicious rewards without any effort, so sings Sundaradasa.


    I feel so alone here because I know of noone else who follows Krishna.. I wish I had some like minded people to hang out with.. to practice with.. I'm soooo alone..

    I know how you feel. Where I live, there isn't even one Hindu temple... let alone a Krishna temple. :( I'm sorry you feel so alone :(


    What is light for one is darkness for another. Srimati Kuntidevi is successful because she is thoroughly defeated.


    When one is winning, it is impossible to even think of surrender, so if surrender to higher truth is desired (ie Krsna consciousness), one must accept thorough defeat in all attempts in winning anything at all.


    Srimati Kunthi is the embodiment of surrender, and her success is that she is defeated thoroughly. The Teachings of Queen Kunti is the best book in describing the process of surrender, defeat, and ultimate success in what has any value at all.


    haribol, ys, mahaksadasa


    I think She's more of His devotion-potency... Her very name means "to invoke/pray".

    Jai Sri Kunti Mata :)


    What an amazing archaeological find! And it was right there on the internet all along.


    By the way, here is an excerpt from the intro of that home page:




    This sounds like Christian propaganda to me. And that last part - help the poor, sustain the feeble, etc. Is this "pure devotional service?"


    They took the written word (you can get it at any website that sells books) and typed it on their website. It's not only on the internet.

    Sounds more like the truth to me. Vaishas and Shudras are treated horribly even today in India. They were treated horribly in Buddha's time (only 500 years before Jesus' birth) as well... that's why he preached against the Varna system so much. So, it's Christian propaganda if they point out bad things that Hindus have done in the past, but it's not Vaishnava propaganda if you point out things like the Inquisition? You're such a hypocrite, it's almost funny!

    How is helping the poor not a part of devotional sevice? Does the Bhagavatam not say, "Relieving others of their suffering is the highest worship of God" (Srimad Bhagavatam 8.7.44)?


    As I recall, when Surya Dev gave Kunti his baby who later became known as Karna, she protested and said that she couldn't have a child as she was unmarried. He told her that her virginity would remain intact and her chastity would never be doubted.


    Jai Kunti Maharani!




    Thank you for the quote from the Mahabharata! I started reading part of an abridged version, and it said that Surya Dev restored Her virginity... after. I threw it out after I read that b/c I didn't think it made sense that he'd be able to restore Her virginity, but not have Her conceive virginally.

    Jai Sri Kunti Mata! :)

  10. Haribol!

    I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to cause anymore of an upstart, but I found something kind of interesting that has a lot to do with this thread.

    It's a lost gospel that talks about a man named Isha who came from Israel following a caravan going to India, studied in the Jagannatha Temple in Puri, was thrown out by the priests for associating too much with the "Shudras" (I like Gandhi's name for them better... Harijans... but I digress), and went into the mountains where he learned the message of the Buddha and, after leaving the Buddhist monastery, went to study and meditate with Shaiva gurus. It says that after he went back to the west, he was crucified and the heavens cried out and blackness covered the earth. It says that while he was interred, his guru came to him and raised him up, and he went back to India to initiate others in the cult of the Linga. It's in a Buddhist monastery in the Himalayas... kinda weird... Here's the document:


    Another thing that I found very interesting was that there is a tomb of a certain Isha, who is regarded as a great prophet by the local people, in Kashmir (there's also a tomb of the Virgin in Pakistan called "Mai Mari da Ashtan"):



    So maybe Jesus wasn't a Vaishnava after all... maybe he was a Shaiva! Or maybe, since he studied at the Jagannatha temple and studied with Shaiva gurus, he was something of a Vai-Shaiva (LOL).

    Hare Krishna! Radhe Radhe! :)


    But Christianity today universally accepts the old testament as the word of God. So it seems you are basically agreeing with Raghu that 99% of all Christians in the world follow a fake religion, as their religion in based on the old testiment. Also when you say you don't believe in the old testiment you are basically agreeing with Raghu that the bible is corrupted. The only difference in opinion seems to be the degree. He feels there is nothing valid, and you feel there are some things valid in the bible.


    He thinks that anyone who tries to follow Jesus' message is wrong and are following a fake being, while only providing evidence from atheist scholarship that can easily be applied to any god/form of God, not just Jesus, and then uses that as his reason for not following Jesus' message, since he can't be proved by atheist scholarship (while following Krishna, who also doesn't stand up to such atheistic scholarship). He's stated that the message of Jesus can't be considered as a valuable source of knowledge without ever stating why it's not. It's simple to see why the Old Testament isn't the word of God. Jesus, on the other hand, preached compassion and love of your neighbor as yourself, so I don't see how his message is 'corrupt' or non-valuable as Raghu has claimed. When I ask him to please quote a part of Jesus' message that supports his view, he can't find one and starts quoting the OT. So, if you take that away from him, what does he have left? Jesus' message. I want him to list the complaints he has with this message he's never read, and make cites in which his complaints are seen in the historical Jesus Christ's message.



    As far as I am aware (and I could be uninformed) there are no well known Christian groups that only accept the new testiment.

    The organized religion, in itself, doesn't acknowledge such a point of view, but there are many people within those relgious groups that see the Old Testament's many faults and deny it's validity.




    Indra is not God, nor a perfect being. So there is no comparison. You would have to cite cases of Vishnu acting cruelly in order for there to be a valid comparison.

    But the authors of the Vedas treated him as the ultimate reality and even praise him above all other gods in some hymns. How do we know this same misconception wasn't applied to Yahweh, if we want to go in that direction?


    1) Because Jesus is a pure Vaishnava, his teachings (i.e. Christianity) are also valid in their own context.

    His teachings are valid. Modern Christianity isn’t always a valid path (Spanish Inquisition, etc…). But, Hinduism isn’t always a valid path either (attacks on Muslims, etc…) if you want to judge only by what it’s followers do.



    2) Since Christianity is a valid religion and Christian scriptures do not forbid cow-slaughter, cows need not be regarded as sacred by everyone - it is ok for Christians to kill and eat cows because their religion is bona fide and does not forbid this.

    Just because Jesus didn’t expressly mention the killing of cows doesn’t mean that all Christians are cow murdering maniacs. I know many Christian vegetarians. They think that several of Jesus’ teachings and Biblical passages validate their view.



    3) Because Christianity is valid, it is acceptable for Vaishnavas to cozy up with the Christians while being extremely hostile to other Hindus. Thus, in iskcon a very pious brahmana who is vegetarian, a teetotaler, and who does his sandhya vandana religiously every morning during the brahma-muhurta is regarded with contempt and derision if he is not a Vaishnava, while a hamburger-eating Christian who is attracted to drinking liquor and watching nonsense on television is seen as a peer and treated as an equal.

    I don’t treat Shaivas, Shaktas, Advaitans, or, for that matter, Muslims, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Sikhs, or Taoists any differently than I would anyone else. I have friends from all these groups, and I treat them all equally. I treat people the way I treat them based on their personality, not their religion. You, on the other hand, seem to have a stereotype about Christians and hate them based on your own logic. I know this may come as a shock, but many Hindus smoke bhang, eat chicken and fish, and sit around watching nonsense all day. I think we should all treat everyone equal, regardless of religion or lack-thereof.



    4) Because nothing can be known conclusively about Jesus and Christianity due to the historic reality of Christianity, iskcon followers must now assert that nothing can be known about Vaishnava Vedanta either. We can't really "know" anything, they say - one of the cardinal teachings of ATHEISM.

    It’s true! No one can physically or historically prove ANYTHING that is based in faith! We can provide as much evidence about Jesus as we can about Sri Krishna… which is slim to none. If you reject Jesus based on lack of historical evidence, then how can you accept Krishna or Rama, when They also can’t be proven physically or historically? And, you claim that we take too much from atheists? Ha! That’s a laugh! You’re the once that LOVES quoting atheist scholarship all the time in order to disprove others religious beliefs!



    5) Christians preach the idea that one must have "faith," and that the validity of belief is directly proportional to the strength of one's "faith" in it. Consequently, iskcon vaishnavas who are very taken with Christianity preach the same thing - we shouldn't question stupid ideas masquerading as Vaishnavism - we have to just have "faith" in them.

    I hold my beliefs on my own accord. It isn’t just blind faith.



    6) Since Bible is considered valid pramana by iskcon vaishnavas, and Bible is clearly not apaurusheya, the whole concept of apaurusheyatva is abandoned and unappreciated by iskcon vaishnavas. Iskcon vaishnavas consequently accept many degraded literatures as religious scriptures, such as Koran which teaches its followers to violently suppress all other religions and even Kama-Sutra which teaches people about prostitution and enjoying the senses without restriction. I have personally witnessed that some iskcon people think very highly of Kama-Sutra and think that because Vedanta-Sutra and Kama-Sutra both end in "Sutra," therefore Kama-Sutra is one of the "bona fide" kama-shastras of post-Vedic literature. This is the logical result of watering down Vaishnava standards of epistemology with Christian ideas on what constitutes scripture.


    “Apaurusheya” means “un-authored”. It applies only to the Vedas. The Bhagavata Purana is claimed by Hindus to have been written by Vyasa, and the Mahbharata is said to be dictated by Vyasa and written down by Sri Ganesh. Does that mean that we shouldn’t accept them either, since they aren’t apaurusheya either? There are many scriptures that any Hindu can accept within Hinduism that don’t have to be accepted by all devotees as well! Why can’t the Kama Sutra and Koran go right up there with the Skanda Purana, the Linga Purana, the Devi Mahatmaya, and all the many other scriptures that make Hinduism as diverse as it has come to be?



    7) Since Bible is bona fide even though it preaches hatred of certain ethnic groups and depicts a "God" who is partial and cruel, the Vedas must also have mantras that depict God as partial and cruel, because after all Vedas can't be any better than Bible! So iskcon people will happily go to Jihadi website and lookup where those cruel Veda mantras are so that they can smear the Vedas and satisfy their Christian insecurities.

    I don’t believe in the Old Testament (it has nothing to do with Jesus’ message). Why don’t you start using the message of Jesus to attack those who believe in Jesus, rather than the message of Yahweh in the Old Testament? Oh, and, yes the Vedas often do portray very cruel incidents acted out by Indra and friends. Sorry if you don’t want to read the whole scripture. I’ve only read the Rig, and it’s, not only overtly sexual in many places, but also very war-like.



    8) Since Christianity is a "bona fide" religion and its followers identify themselves as disciples of Christ, so it is also ok for Vaishnavas to just identify themselves as disciples of some guru with whom they have never had contact and not go through the process of actually submitting to a qualified, living guru (case in point, most of the so-called "vaishnavas" who have been flaming me who are not even initiated).

    I don’t claim to be anyone’s disciple. I’m a devotee of Krishna… that’s it.



    9) Jesus is an incarnation of Sri Balarama!


    Hmmm… I didn’t realize that everyone on this thread made that claim. I know I never did.



    10) Because other Vaishnavas do not accept iskcon's theories about Christianity and Islam, iskcon followers treat those sampradayas and their followers as less enlightened. I have personally seen iskcon people who have not even read one shloka out of bhagavad-gita but will nevertheless criticize stalwart Vaishnava acharyas like Sri Madhvacharya and Sri Ramanuja.


    I’ve seen you criticize Jesus’ message and his followers without even reading even one word of his message!



    11) "Falldown from Vaikuntha" Does this nonsense sound familiar? Sure it does - the Christians also have their concept of "Fall from Heaven" or "Fall From Grace." This is yet another way in which sympathy with Christianity leads one to adopt beliefs that are not in line with pure Vaishnavism.

    The Christian “Fall from Heaven” describes the fall of Satan from Heaven into Hell. It has nothing to do with human souls. The “Fall from Grace” describes the human condition as some Christians claim was caused by Adam and Eve on EARTH. The fall of us jivas from Vaikuntha describes how our souls have fallen into worldly bodies. All three concepts are completely different and can hardly be compared to each other. Maybe you should try to learn a little bit more about each of these concepts before grouping them together.



    12) Not only other sampradayas, but even iskcon vaishnavas disrespect any gaudiya vaishnava gurus who do not agree with their Jesus theories. The Narasingha Swami whose writings I quoted here was denounced as a "fool" by certain so-called Vaishnavas who are not even initiated.

    You do know that gurus, while self-realized people, are still just that, people… right? And it’s okay to find fault in human teaching (believe it or not).



    13) Many Vedic practices such as archana, yagna, tapasya, etc are denounced as sectarian "Hindu" rituals because Christianity has no room in its worldview for them. Even much of the Vedas is regarded by iskcon christian sympathizers as too "Hindu" for their taste - real Vaishnavism is then regarded as something completely beyond the Vedas.

    I don’t have a problem with any Hindu rituals (other than certain temples that still practice animal sacrifice according to VEDIC injunctions). I perform puja and have much respect for brahmacharyas and the like that practice tapas. Stop applying what a minority thinks to the majority.



    14) Since Christianity is supposed to represent "abridged Vaishnavism" or just essentials of Vaishnavism, Bible is given great weight by iskcon vaishnavas while Vedas are denounced as ritualistic writings of Hindu priests. The Bhagavata Purana by contrast treats the Vedas as devotees of Sri Vishnu!


    There is much wisdom in the Vedas, but there IS also much ritualistic nonsense, such as sacrifice to Indra (which Sri Krishna Himself criticized!), violence, and overt sexuality.



    15) Jesus is the "Holy Spirit" of God and he suffered and died on the cross. Therefore, God incarnates in a body of flesh and blood - one of the disgusting and offensive tenets of mayavada!


    Take a look at Gnosticism. The Gnostics didn’t think that Jesus took a human body, but was rather role-playing on the cross. It’s like how when Krishna was hit by the arrow that killed Him, He took a form that looked like He was bleeding. That’s what early Christians believed. Besides that, Jesus never claims to be the “Holy Spirit of God”. He claims to be the son of God. Once again, read the message of Jesus and then get back to us on why you hate him and why his message is so terrible and must be discarded.


    Let us just bring up the undisputed facts and leave it at that:


    1) There are numerous versions of the Bible which differ from each other in content. There is no objective way to conclude which one is supposedly the "original" Bible representing what Jesus taught.


    2) The Bible as we know it is not the original writing of Jesus or even of one writing during the time of Jesus. It is a hasty reconstruction of what Jesus was deemed to have taught by widely divergent (and mutually antagonistic) parties at the 4th century Council of Nicea.


    3) Points #1 and #2 cast doubt on the authority of the Bible even from a Christian perspective, for they obviously refute the idea that the Bible survives as a single, unaltered edition from the time of Jesus to today.


    The only difference between one version of the Bible and another are:

    a) Some include Apochryphon in the Old Testament (the one that doesn't deal with Jesus, so it doesn't have any affect on him or his teaching),

    b) The way the language is used. The King James Version and other older versions use more formal language, while the New International Version uses less formal language,

    c) The church that hires a company to print their 'version' of the Bible (basically asking for them to put "Catholic Bible", "Baptist Bible", etc... on the cover, while not changing the contents).

    That said, none of these have a direct affect on the overall message that Jesus taught.


    But, just so you know, you're logic (once again) can easily be applied to Sri Krishna and His Lila:


    1) There are multiple translations of the Bhagavad Gita which differ from translation to translation and guru to guru. Each translation and guru claim to be teaching exactly what Krishna meant. Anyone can claim that this means that Krishna's message changes from translation to translation (especially if they haven't read His message, like how you haven't read Jesus'),


    2) The Srimad Bhagavata Purana is not the original writing of Krishna (written by Krishna). Neither is the Mahabharata (which includes the Gita). It could easily be claimed that they are hasty reconstructions by people who lived some 200 years after Krishna (and that's according to the orthodox Hindu timeline... most atheist scholars estimate that the Mahabharata was written around 700 BCE (some claim that the Bhagavad Gita was added into it later (circa 550 BCE), as well), and that the Srimad Bhagavatam was written in the 9th or 10th century CE).


    3) Points #1 and #2 could easily be used by atheist scholars to claim that Sri Krishna never existed and that His teaching should be considered the collective words of translators and gurus over the ages.


    Yes. I find it frustrating and amusing when the person telling me there is no proof Jesus existed then tells me he accepts the reality of Varaha lifting the earth from the Garbhodaksaya ocean with His tusks.:)


    LOL... agreed! Or that Parashuram killed all the Kshatriyas, that Sri Ram broke a huge bow in half, etc... We accept all of these stories based solely on faith... we have no physical evidence that they happened... and that's fine, but, according to Raghu, it's somehow wrong to accept the stories of Jesus based solely on faith. Why? Well... I guess he'll have to answer that sooner of later (unless he just keeps pussyfooting around and making random atheistic quotes).

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