jijaji

Madhava, Can you give a brief explanation on japa that is 'upamsu' (muttered)...? namaskar

Very nice presentation Madhava, thank you! jijaji

The camps are like different planets...

give me an email address coolio...

Raga, You misunderstand me, I appreciate all the quotes you came up with, my intention in asking about Goloka was not to belittle any quotes anyone might come up with at all. My question was directed towards Shiva...I wanted to see his responce as master of the shastras. You can put your guns down sonny, you look for battle where there is none.! [This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 05-26-2002).]

dalitist fundamentaism... I would avoid, very extreme...

Where's that Rati dude..? [This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 05-15-2002).]

From Chopra Board....similar topic. Deepak Chopra posted 05-08-2002 -- Question: Deepak, I wanted to ask if you if you consider yourself a guru? It seems the guru-disciple relationship doesn’t work very well in the Western world. What do you think? Answer: No, I don’t consider myself a guru in the traditional role it has in India where a teacher takes on disciples under his personal care. The classical sense of being a guru is a huge responsibility in which an enlightened teacher agrees to instruct individuals until they become enlightened. The word “guru” means remover of darkness. It’s based on the simple idea that if one wants to gain enlightenment, then you get instruction from one who has already attained it, just as when you want to learn calculus you learn from someone who knows calculus. In the truest sense, the guru is not limited to the individual teacher or even to God; the guru is the higher self that is awakened deep within the heart. The higher self is already enlightened and always has been, and it is what leads the rest of you to that awakening. A human guru is there to skillfully assist that illumination of the Self. Ultimately, pure consciousness must awaken to its own nature on its own terms, the guru or God, is just an outer representation of that guidance toward its awakening. In a more general sense, the guru can be anyone or anything that assists the process of self-realization. Vedic literature tells of an individual who attained enlightenment by observing and absorbing the lessons of nature around him and using that as a guru. When one is ready for knowledge, the guidance of the guru can come from anywhere--through a child’s casual remark, or an overheard fragment of a TV ad. It’s a question of being receptive and heeding the voice of wisdom beyond the ego. As for whether the formal guru-disciple relationship is viable in the West—it probably isn’t in a culturally acceptable way. Individually there are certainly many students capable in the west of effectively utilizing that relationship with a guru, but modern society as a whole places such a high value on the power and rights of the individual (ego) that any person even suggesting a deeper knowledge is regarded by society as suspicious at best and at worst dangerous. This mindset is often dressed up by otherwise bright people as the need to “question authority.” Quite often all they are doing is doubting the validity of their own ability to see the truth inside themselves, and favoring their self-satisfied ego conceptions. The deeper value of questioning authority has always been a foundation of spiritual instruction. Genuine gurus have always encouraged their students to test the authority of traditional wisdom against their own inner experience because that is the only way to make knowledge practical and personal. Love, Deepak

IN THE NAME OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST Whereas, Most Christian, High, Excellent, and Powerful Princes, King and Queen of Spain and of the Islands of the Sea, our Sovereigns, this present year 1492, after your Highnesses had terminated the war with the Moors reigning in Europe, the same having been brought to an end in the great city of Granada, where on the second day of January, this present year, I saw the royal banners of your Highnesses planted by force of arms upon the towers of the Alhambra, which is the fortress of that city, and saw the Moorish king come out at the gate of the city and kiss the hands of your Highnesses, and of the Prince my Sovereign; and in the present month, in consequence of the information which I had given your Highnesses respecting the countries of India and of a Prince, called Great Can, which in our language signifies King of Kings, how, at many times he, and his predecessors had sent to Rome soliciting instructors who might teach him our holy faith, and the holy Father had never granted his request, whereby great numbers of people were lost, believing in idolatry and doctrines of perdition. Your Highnesses, as Catholic Christians, and princes who love and promote the holy Christian faith, and are enemies of the doctrine of Mahomet, and of all idolatry and heresy, determined to send me, Christopher Columbus, to the above-mentioned countries of India, to see the said princes, people, and territories, and to learn their disposition and the proper method of converting them to our holy faith; and furthermore directed that I should not proceed by land to the East, as is customary, but by a Westerly route, in which direction we have hitherto no certain evidence that any one has gone. So after having expelled the Jews from your dominions, your Highnesses, in the same month of January, ordered me to proceed with a sufficient armament to the said regions of India.. From the 1st part of the journal of Columbus [This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 05-14-2002).]

Christopher Columbus: Extracts from Journal This document is the from the journal of Columbus in his voyage of 1492. The meaning of this voyage is highly contested. http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/columbus1.html Also here is a list of saints who lived in India in and around the time (1492) Columbus headed our for India... 1380- 1460 Kabir, a famous mystic poet, 1469- 1538 Guru Nanak, a famous Saint, found Sikhism. 1483-1563 Surdas, a renowned poet, contribtued to the revival of devotionalism 1486 - 1533 Chaitanya, the most revered Vaishnava saint and believed to be an incarnation Vallabhacarya was born in 1479 not sure when he passed away 1498 - 1546 Mira Bai, a famous female poet saint, strengthened the bhakti tradition 1503 - 1623 Tulsi Das, one of the popular mystic poets, composed the Hindi version of Ramayana I say he went to see Mira Bai and was fortold her coming in a dream..he just got there a little early. Or maybe he came to See Guru Nanak?? He was alive then.... Or maybe it was the entire vibe of India and that vibe was made up of many many traditions and sampradayas..would that be a bad thing Rati..? But in reality it seems Columbus thought he was on a mission to convert heathens to the 'One & Only Faith' of as he says "Our Lord Jesus Christ". So this... "Oh Columbus was drawn to India at that time because Chaitanya appeared" are subtle ways of stroking your own ego because that is the sect you identify with...get real! [This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 05-14-2002).]

Huh Huh... Very enlightening weekend here....

I appreciate your posting ji, I don't mean to offend jndas..it just seems lately he has gotten so damm controlling with his deleting and yes maybe responding with some demeaning words that has gotten me saying ..HEY WAIT A SECOND... His age of course means nothing...but many of us here have been around the block on these issues when he was like not even a teenager! I believe those who have do not deserve these classic moron responces like... "That's nonsense"... damm get some new vocabulary

Difference equals envy huh..? Very dysfunctional way to think. A lot of enmeshment going on here! Very common in dogmatic elitist missionary groups!

If your speakin to me jndas about never reading Mahabharata, you are most inaccurate in your assumption, which is a chance you take in assuming. But the matter at hand here is not if I have read the Mahabharata or not but if all 100,000 verses of the present edition are original or not. Most mahabharata scholars agree on the point that it was originaly much much smaller than it's present form. Madhva himself said that most of the Mahabharata of his time was interpolated.

I'm not sayig that being young is a disqualification. In jndas's case perhaps

Like I said..This is part of the problem.... A twenty six year old kid who moderates and deletes anything and everything to his limited liking... Boy OH Boy has this been an eye-opener tonight! THE GOOSE IS OUT...!!!!!!!! [This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 05-10-2002).]

jndas is 26 years old...? boy THAT explains alot here... I became a Gaudiya vaishnav before you were born... And you have the nasty attitude to say... "I seriously doubt if you ever read Mahabharata" ha ha ha.. Please pay no attention to that man (boy) behind the curtain. [This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 05-10-2002).]

Not just a 'WEBSITE'.. I visited jndas! ha ha, how cute jndas But the Link was to nothing less than AN ENTIRE BOOK ON THE SUBJECT by some of the most noteworthy scholars on the subject in our present times.... Always some litte snide remark from you these days, gettin a little grumpy in your old age perhaps..? I don't care nothing is good enough to those blinded by their dogma only! Interpolation in the Mahabharata is something that has a lot of support outside your 'one and only view' and something I myself have studied from various sources... here's another.. The Mahabharata translated by L.A.B van Buitenen. see the introduction, page xxiii Authorship & Date (but of course van Buitenen is an idiot huh?) BTW..Did I mention that Madhavacarya said the majority of Mahabharata was interpolated in his own time..? There ya go that should keep ya busy for a few minutes... You really need to get out more! [This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 05-10-2002).]

Here's a very good link to this subject. An entire book on the subject in fact with many scholars from both sides of the fence. Make sure to look at the names of the participants who contributed in this book. They are not a bunch of 'Idiots' as some closed-minded here would have you believe but very qualified as their credentials show. Just because some of them do not accept everything on face value and doesn't mean their points of view should be dogmaticaly cast aside. link... http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/maha/ you will have to download a djva viewer (no biggie) Seems lately anything said that jndas disagrees with is meet with some angry response with something belittling added i.e "I doubt if you ever read mahabharataThat's nonsense" how original.. gimme a break.

That is a most illogical argument.... Why would Madhva comment on the 10th canto of SB (songs of the gopis) and not mention Radha ?? If in fact he accepted her...? shvu is correct in stating that Madhva never accepted or rejected Radha because it just never came up in the time/space/reality tunnel he lived in! [This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 05-08-2002).]

Your wrong sorry..

Madhavacarya did not accept Radha and the gopis the way the later Gaudiyas did. He in fact said the gopi's were 'apsaras' from the heavenly planets, descended to give service to Krishna avatar. But 'Radha' is not accepted by Madhva. Also note that Madhva considered the Mahabharata of his period to have been made up mostly of interpolation.

"Takin it to the Streets"