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Everything posted by sevabhakta

  1. Yes, thus the difference between belief and faith-full knowledge. Hare Krsna
  2. The paradox I see here is that a person might claim that the conclusive statement at the end of the second letter, which includes and expands upon the truisms of the first letter, could be subject to falsity based upon an occurance that an acarya told us ALWAYS MAY HAPPEN, BUT NEVER DOES. So in this case 1+2 simply = 3. 1. USUALLY ANYONE WHO HAS DEVELOPED HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH KRSNA DOES NOT FALL DOWN IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, BUT BECAUSE THE INDEPENDENCE IS ALWAYS THERE, THE SOUL MAY FALL DOWN FROM ANY POSITION OR ANY RELATIONSHIP BY MISUSING HIS INDEPENDENCE. 2. SO THERE IS ALWAYS THE CHANCE OF FALLING DOWN BY MISUSE OF ONE'S INDEPENDENCE. BUT THOSE WHO ARE FIRMLY FIXED UP IN DEVOTIONAL SERVICE TO KRSNA ARE MAKING PROPER USE OF THEIR INDEPENDENCE AND SO THEY DO NOT FALL DOWN. 1+2= 3. USUALLY ANYONE WHO HAS DEVELOPED HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH KRSNA DOES NOT FALL DOWN IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, BUT BECAUSE THE INDEPENDENCE IS ALWAYS THERE, THE SOUL MAY FALL DOWN FROM ANY POSITION OR ANY RELATIONSHIP BY MISUSING HIS INDEPENDENCE.SO THERE IS ALWAYS THE CHANCE OF FALLING DOWN BY MISUSE OF ONE'S INDEPENDENCE.BUT THOSE WHO ARE FIRMLY FIXED UP IN DEVOTIONAL SERVICE TO KRSNA ARE MAKING PROPER USE OF THEIR INDEPENDENCE AND SO THEY DO NOT FALL DOWN. And to reiterate the value of 3... Because independence is there, the soul MAY fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence. So there is ALWAYS THAT CHANCE. BUT those who are firmly fixed up in devotional service to Krsna ARE MAKING PROPER USE OF THEIR INDEPENDENCE AND SO THEY DO NOT FALL DOWN. A fixed up soul May misuse his independence. That is what independence entails. But he does not. Ever. Chance is there, never happens. Devotee may reject Krsna, never happens. Ever. Unless you are just dreaming that it happens.
  3. Yeah, well the latest Mahabhagavat Acarya to grace the scene, who understood things a tad more than you do at this point, said that the option always exists to reject Krsna's active service but due to how outstandingly wonderful and blissful that service is, a devotee fixed up in such service DOES NOT EVER FALL. This appears to be your stumbling block. You sleepervadis cannot grok the fact that the desire to be the central enjoyer DOES NOT ARISE in a devotee fixed in pure devotional service to Krsna, and SIMULTANEOUSLY free will exists to do ANYTHING UNDER THE SUN. That does not mean that the POTENTIAL is there to use free-will in such a way in a perfected servant. Where there is potential for something to happen, it CAN HAPPEN. But in this case there is NO POTENTIAL PRESENT. ONLY FREE-WILL IS PRESENT. Thus an acarya, in describing the nature of eternal free will of each person, can explain to neophytes that "IF" the desire to be like Krsna, or to enjoy maya, arises, a person will fall. Examine the two letters to Jagadisa, in the sequence they were written to him. The first letter seems to directly back the sleeper vadi theory. The second letter, in logical and chronological sequence, is the higher understanding, and its definitive nature trumps the first letter and establishes the perfection of the use of free will in a liberated servant of Krsna. The only conclusion a reasonable student can come to is that the Acarya concluded that such fall down is NOT a real potential. Actually he clearly states the opposite. There is no potential. They are free to do it but NEVER will. I believe this should mark the End of this debate. It feels quite refreshing, and there is a very light drizzle falling on the field outside my humble (no exaggeration) abode. Begs for a japa walk. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada! Hare Krsna
  4. I am preaching from my temple here my friend. When I look around me I see nothing but my temple room, and my computer screen. The forum admin is gracious enough to offer this service so all us aspiring brahmanas can cut our teeth amongst each other from our little ashrams. If anything, I should be donating to them. Of course as Guruvani said, if anyone enjoys my schtick that much, send Gold, and I will travel. Hare Krsna
  5. Ditto. This is also Vaisnava 101. I have been stating, in similar paraphrase, what Guruvani just said, for years. All this Ritvik bashing is simply due to a lack of education regarding the etymology of the word Ritvik. I have posted exhaustive analysis on this subject in previous posts on this board. In essence one considered ritvik is the most highly qualified brahminical position. It is one who Knows The Time to Perform a Sacrifice. They gain this knowledge because they LISTENED TO AND HEARD THE INSTRUCTIONS OF THEIR ACARYA, and represent him perfectly when sacrificing. For vaisnava's in this age, such a qualification means this person is an expert at Sankirtana Yajna and their timing is perfect. If a Vaisnava is also a qualified Ritvik, such advancement is practically inconceivable to pea-brained conditioned souls. Oh well, at least a few people can appreciate this. That is nice. Too bad the rest will see this as an impediment to their megalomania. As far as Govinda Maharaja is concerned, I surmise Guruvani is not far from the mark at all, he probably renounced it just to have compassion on all the fools who were hanging around him chanting the Holy Name and thinking they knew something he didn't. He just didn't want to disturb their Uber-Neophyte minds. But I'll say it. They won't listen to me anyway, I doubt I will have an influence. If those luminaries come to me in a dream and chastise me, I will make a swift withdrawal from this position and carefully denounce ritvik, and noone will even remember how thoroughly I backed it. Yeah I'm puffed up, but this issue just eats me up because I can see what nice Gaudiya Vaisnava communities we could have here in America if more than 3 or 4 people could actually appreciate the instructions of such Great Ones. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhu stated that the Earth is no place for a gentleman in Kali Yuga, and this stark Vaisnava landscape here is ramming his point home like a battering ram, I should try to make some advancement out of this realization instead of bitching about it! Maybe they are ready to take the Ritvik defenders straight home, like a get out of jail free card, Krpa Siddha when we least expect it. I am such a monkey in so many ways, this is my best shot at a spot in Krsna's lila any time soon. Hare Krsna!!
  6. I had no idea Govinda Maharaja rejected the ritvik appointment of his Guru. In a recent post I glorified him in the same breath as Srila Sridhara Mahraja and Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami for their wisdom and chastity to the representative systems of their Gurus. Actually I am shocked, but do not doubt Guruvani would assert such an indictment without hard proof. Still I would like to see it for myself. Perhaps Guruvani was misinformed. Now THIS is interesting.
  7. Perhaps that is true about the story of Sudama and Tulsi devi. I have the story on a word file. I will have to examine it more closely. Only read it twice. I hope the questionable nature of that story doesn't detract from the rest of my post, because the rest is bona-fide verifiable Prabhupada nectar. I know I am more puffed up than Romaharsana could ever be, so please forgive me.
  8. Let us not forget the fact that is illustrated in the last part of the purport to There is a difference between the service of Sri Narayana and Sri Krsna. The 4 types of liberation in service to Sri Narayana are not aspired to by Krsna bhaktas. Those 4 types manifest their features in the Vaikunthas. This is the lynchpin to this debate. I believe that subtly, we want to become God, so we get one of the 4 types of liberation in Vaikuntha, but there is another stage to get to, and the crucible ground for realizing this is in the material world, amidst Krsna's lila. Srila Prabhupada used the word "fall" down in the above quote. (Which is presented without proper references by the way, but what else is new from the Snoozevadis). But if we look at all quotes from SP regarding this issue, we find that this is the only time fall is used to describe what an eternal associate of Lord Visnu does when descending to the material world in order to have a chance to learn about Krsna bhakti. If we adjust our sense of proportion, speaking relative to the phenomenon of purely spontaneous loving service to Sri Krsna Proper, descending from Vaikuntha due to wanting to be Krsna can also be considered a fall, as it is an offense, Just like Jaya and Vijaya committed an offense, though it was manufactured by the will of Lord Narayana, it was still an offense and thus technically a fall, but not the same type of fall that a conditioned soul makes when falling from sadhana, or leaning toward the material world from the tatastha so long ago. So what about the offenses committed in Goloka? What about the descent from Goloka into the body of a demon by Sudama, who became Sankachuda and married Tulsi on Earth? He offended Srimati Radharani, and was cursed to descend to earth. Or should I say fell to earth? So maybe we are all present in Goloka, and just think we have fallen into demonic bodies here in the material world, if the Cowherds can do it, maybe we are all here on a mission to increase the Lord's pleasure?? The real question is, are you going to let the fact that we are simultaneously existing in our eternal swarupa in Goloka keep you puffed up and stuck in the other side of that simultaneous coin, that you are just a bumbling conditioned soul who can't even follow the four regs properly and are a long way from realizing and enjoying your "already existing" eternal relationship with Krsna?? Apparently some are very close to fitting that description. Beware. It is inconceivable for a reason. Hear it, accept it, but don't dwell on it, or you will make ZERO advancement toward LIVING it. Hare Krsna
  9. Well, if you examine Srila Prabhupada's system that he put in place, if anyone were to have been staunch enough to FOLLOW it, he required grhastas, as of 1974, to live amongst themselves in farm communities in order to support all devotees who were able to live in the temples. In otherwords, he wanted everyone to reach for self sufficiency, only entering into karmi zones to trade surplus from the farming and cottage industries, distribute books, and Harinam Sankirtana/preaching parties. Also in his system were senior representatives who one was to live amongst or at least be monitored by when they came to that community to see that the spiritual standards were being upheld. Those senior representatives were to hold "aspirants" to Srila Prabhupada's standards, since the Acarya was "departed", his books and instructions were to be the basis, and no-one was to pick and choose, because a monitor would chastise and or excommunicate such. So many of HIS VERY OWN DISCIPLES WHO HE NEVER MET IN HIS ABHAY CARAN BODY, were discipled by him through the senior men who monitored and guided them on his behalf. This was the way it was when he was "present". Nothing was to change when he "departed". He said so. It is still possible to do this, and I predict that his system will be the one to eventually win the day, and for many years the Sankirtana villages will send out Sankirtana parties to all the places where it has not been yet, I am certain there are a few "towns and villages" in South Dakota yet to be canvassed. Many many Siksa Guru representatives of the founder Acarya. And those independent of his system who are empowered to form their own movements will certainly never try to convince anyone still under his discipline to give it up and follow them. Hare Krsna
  10. If we just keep in mind that LORD Krsna used his transparent Bhakta Acarya to appeal to the entire bell curve of souls who would even attempt to chant and follow... We can then see the transcendental justification for every word he spoke. Lord Krsna did not care one iota what a few bhaktas might "wish" Iskcon would be like now "if only" Srila Prabhupada did not say things which attracted and appealed to cheaters and their cheated. Lord Krsna inspired/dictated/directed (whatever you want to call it) because Lord Krsna wanted them chanting his name. He even gave them an institution to destroy just to hook em on the basics. Can we get over that? I say only if we wake up to see how everything such an acarya said is perfect, and as some have pointed out, this accptance will lead to maturing to the stage of being able to harmonize "apparent" contradictions with this truism in mind. Doubts arise from the inherent nature of material conditioning. We don't want Krsna, we want the material world to fit our needs, and the transcendental path leaves alot of holes in our material plan, so we doubt, and pick the first contradiction we see to justify a lesser attempt at sadhana. Those who gripe and groan, and plan how to remove these doubts from these people are beating their heads against a wall, perhaps with good intentions, but they too are succumbing to be cheated by wasting their energy in a futile effort, which is actually working AGAINST KRSNA'S PLAN TO KEEP THEM CHEATED JUST THE WAY THEY LIKE IT, FOR AS LONG AS THEY WANT IT. The only solution is to seek out association of those who thoroughly grasp this truth, and let it permeate your consciousness, and then and only then might Krsna actually use you to make a change in a cheater/cheated type when they are ready to come around. Otherwise, it is the drowning trying to save the drowning. Please forgive me for seeming to do exactly what I am asking everyone else not to do, I am still being pulled up by the life preserver I am holding on to and using my best discrimination as to who might possibly grab on also without pulling me back under. See, it is not so easy to let go of misguided sentiment, but I just can't believe that some people who seem so close, so so close, can't just come around. Thy will be done. Hare Krsna
  11. Prevarication and obfuscation are the only things you don't have to "try" to do, they seem to come quite naturally. But I am satisfied that if there was anyone reading this exchange with a modicum of intelligence, who was on the fence, will certainly reject you as an authority, and honestly, that makes my day. A new person, by definition, doesn't have a CLUE IN REALITY what they are looking for anyway, they are of 4 types, and only the wise has an INKLING that there must be some absolute truth behind all relative truths, and that maybe someone can help CLUE them in on it, but someone like that doesn't give a rat's ass whether the person with the answer left it written in a book and has "departed" for greener pastures. They just want the truth. The discipline is Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's anyway, but he is departed to, so I guess all anyone is left is... Kulapavana??? And as for people being "full of doubts" due to Prabhupada's words... The only contradictions in anything Srila Prabhupada said are contradictions in your conditioned mind because you don't have the full picture in order to harmonize what APPEAR TO YOU OR ANY DOUBTER, AT FIRST, to be contradictions. Anything that seems to be a contradiction is due to the Acintya principle that something can be bedha and abedha. We are to EVENTUALLY stop analyzing Sri Krsna and the methods behind his madness, and just love him unconditionally and accept all his ways. The rest of the population of devotees will stay mired in the level of philisophical "contradiction" until they actually get humble enough to accept Krsna and his service plan "as it is", and then they get the intelligence to IMMEDIATELY see through any SEEMING CONTRADICTION THAT ARISES through the DESCENT OF UNDERSTANDING WHICH COMES DIRECTLY THROUGH THE INTERNAL POTENCY. You can have the sandbox back for a while now and be King of the Doubters, there is an unlimited supply of them to rule around here, I need some rest. Hare Krsna
  12. Karma is a bitch for every Jiva in the material world. Taking birth as an animal, or child, who is killed in ignorance in order to balance the karmic scales, will never feel good for the one whose body is killed. However, the killing and eating of animal flesh after being offered to the goddess Kali, is acceptable under certain exact conditions according to the revealed scriptures for those in the mode of ignorance. It is done so to get them thinking about God while doing what they were going to do anyway. Imagine that. However, Lord Jagannatha is not the Diety who accepts such offerings. He accepts offerings made in the mode of goodness by those qualified to do so. And as far as I know, killing a human child and making it an "offering" is a total abomination and no Deity accepts such nonsense as dovetailed desire. Local sadhus concur that if the banning of Krsna Bhaktas because of their country of origin was not already enough to cause Lord Jagganatha to skip out on the Puri temple, this latest fiasco would be the straw that broke the camels back.
  13. At least I take responsibility for my ego, and proud to do it, I like to be an individual. Just by "telling these people" like you say, puts you directly in the middle between him and them. How transparent you are is what counts. Except in your example you pretend to be merged into the Brahmajyoti and tell this person to examine the person who they are considering to be their spiritual teacher (de facto and in facto who you are to them already due to the circumstance of you "telling them" anything about their spiritual life) and see if they meet the qualifications of a spiritual master while LIVING WITH THEM AND SERVING THEM FOR A WHILE). And of course this is what all the Iskcon gurus say. As they send someone to LIVE WITH AND SERVE their "good" self, or one of their Godbrothers. And since this person does not have access to Srila Prabhupada's original books, such as the CC where the original version said if the society seems filled with false devotees you can take shelter of the spiritual master, and the changed version says that you must stick to the society regardless of what you think of the other "disciples". And because you are a madhyama or a kanistha learning how to be a qualified brahmana and preach a little, there ain't know way you are going to fit the bill, so I dare say a smart kanistha or madhyama will do something similar to what I suggest and call the spades spades, the acaryas acaryas, and be a good madyhama monkey middle man for an Acarya who is light years more advanced in his devotional mood and preaching capability through his books than you will probably be in this lifetime, and then maybe his mercy and grace will bring out the self-effulgent acarya in you sometime, but let us not put the cart in front of the horse. If this advice were followed by more of the folks I speak with, including some finishing touches on my part, there would be alot less debate and discussion with this tinge of passion, and lots more Sankirtana and cooperation between us since the factions are simply a creation of lack of chastity to A MAHABHAGAVAT ACARYA'S INSTRUCTIONS, whichever one YOU choose to take on your head. I would be fine and silent if a person was just going off and starting his own movement from scratch, having no more interaction with Iskcon or Srila Prabhupada's disciples than sharing Hari Nama and formal affairs, in other words NEVER casting doubt in the minds of a disciple of SP by contradicting him or criticizing him wherever they MIGHT be present, like this internet forum for example, except that some people are here actually trolling for such disaffected disciples and aspirants to discipleship of His Divine Grace, and offering their "ALTERNATE PLAN" and suchness. So despite the confusion of some of our young friends in the audience, I continue to point out the truth, as a middle man, and that is if you are going to apply any spirit of examination to any of the lost sheep of Iskcon, or anyone preaching on this board, match what they say to either of the three great spiritual teachers, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, Bhakti Raksak Sridhara Maharaja, and their protege Srila Govinda Maharaja, in order to confirm that the person you are examining is properly representing the conclusions of the founding duo of the Saraswata Parampara, the father son team of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhu, in terms of how a Harinama Sankirtana mission is to be conducted among the most fallen of the "Western" world. Hare Krsna
  14. Sorry, sometimes I forget that some of the audience isn't attempting to, or directly, using Srila Prabhupada's Iskcon to spread the holy name in such a careless way, setting themselves up as authorities beyond their pay grade. As far as I am concerned, those qualified by their devotion to present Gaudiya Vaisnavism in a way that does not contradict the Saraswata Parivar is Siksa Guru to me, and I consider them Srila Prabhupada to their disciples whoever you may be. My comments were made for the disciples of H.D.G. A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, those who aspire to that line, and the aforementioned young souls who are still using their Real Daddy as a crutch for their lukewarm attempts at harmonizing with him at the expense of their big egos. Hare Krsna Hare Krsna
  15. Srila Prabhupada is not a past acarya to those who he is still the current acarya. Sorry you can't see that. And I am pushing nothing on you. Yet. I am pushing your nonsense philosophy about Vaisnava acaryas AWAY FROM anyone who might be lured by your own attempt to do what you are saying I am doing, which is to place yourself between anyone in the west seeking to understand Gaudiya Vaisnavism and the only person who came to the west who understood it. I do the same, yet I guide them to Srila Prabhupada as the ultimate authority, especially in cases where I am less than knowledgeable about how to proceed. You are claiming the buck stops with your puny interpretive mind. Big difference. Just see you are such a speculator that in your last post you wrote, 1. "Disciples of Prabhupada like yourself now insist that you have to understand Srila Prabhupada through them." Can't Prove it. Cause it Never happened. I have repeatedly said that he presents himself clearly, and THAT is all someone needs to understand through ME. 2. "If you think I need to understand Srila Prabhupada based on your purports..." If is your favorite word. Why don't you find out the truth instead of speculating. For I never said or implied any of the above. But the truth is, according to your misconceptions, you would do well to consider me as acarya for this one moment, and READ MY PURPORT... Srila Prabhupada is the final authority on Gaudiya Vaisnava Philosophy, it is all in his books. My first and last purport as acarya. Hope it helps. Hare Krsna
  16. Vaisnava standard 101. Understand the past acaryas through the current acarya. If Srila Prabhupada and Lord Nityananda did not consider Srila Prabhupada competent to represent Guru and Sadhu, the following would HAVE TO HAVE BEEN ARRANGED by Sri Krsna. 1. Sri Krsna would have had to install a saintly vaisnava (sadhu), everywhere Srila Prabhupada's disciples were, so that after everything he told them, or read in his books, they could consult that sadhu for confirmation. 2. Sri Krsna would have made Srila Prabhupada travel with a constant companion who was near his level of advancement to perform the same function. Anymore Ludicrous arguements, or are you tired enough to accept silence for a while? You know, perhaps help stem the tide of these endless debates you are engaging in due to your own reluctance to accept higher authority than your own meager intelligence. Hare Krsna
  17. Those who are looking for any reason to reject Srila Prabhupada's authority will do things like believe that a transcription of a room conversation between Srila Prabhupada and those mentioned above was allowed by those mentioned above to be transcribed accurately. And even if it was, he was speaking to "leaders" who had... Already deviated multiple times to SP's knowledge. Were proven ambitious and reckless to SP. Who would eventually lead others away from SP. So Sri Paramatma, dictating and directing through his transparent via media (the acarya), MAY have told those "leading men" that they MAY consult Sridhara Maharaja on philisophical issues, for HIS own reasons. Possibilities. 1. Lord Paramatma knew exactly who he had to lead away from the simple exposition of the philosophy given by his acarya. You know, those who wanted to stay tangled in their speculation for another few eons. 2. Lord Paramatma knew which ones would use Sridhara's nice guidance in a twisted way to continue their charade, and wanted to make sure all the cheaters had proper ammunition. 3. Lord Paramatma knew which persons would, after rejecting Srila Prabhupada's version of the philosophy, would later wise up under Sridhara Maharaja's nice guidance, and actually make some advancement. Broaden your mind, and the possibilities become evident. Hare Krsna
  18. I have nothing to sell. I simply offer the truth. Thus I simply repeating my Guru's method, and whether you are convinced or not is up to your free will to accept or reject the truth, based on your free will desire to continue to Lord over materiality or not. I am disappointed that you reject the simple method. Disappointed because I can see you choose to suffer your own limits for a longer period. But I have faith in Sri Guru and Gauranga that your choice to extend your suffering is perfectly in line with their plan to win you over some other time. Hare Krsna
  19. Please prove your "Srila Prabhupada said" that you offer here. The one where Srila Prabhupada instructed "His disciples" (implying all) to take shelter of Sridhara Maharaja on "philisophical matters" (aka the Gaudiya Siddhanta which he claims were covered fully in his books). Since I know this is an impossibility for you, I will get to the point and label this just another one of Kulapavana's delerious attempts at directly implying that Srila Prabhupada is an incompetent hypocrite. “In my books the philosophy of Krsna Consciousness is explained fully so if there is anything you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again. By reading daily the knowledge will be revealed to you and by this process your spiritual life will develop.” (Letter to Brahmarupa Dasa, 22/11/74) "After 80 years, no one can be expected to live long. My life is almost ended. So you have to carry on, and these books will do everything." (Room Conversation, 18/2/76) "I shall remain your personal guidance, physically present or not physically present, as I am getting guidance from my Guru Maharaja." (Room Conversation, Vrindavan, 14/7/77) So utilise whatever time you find to make a thorough study of my books. Then all your questions will be answered. (Letter to Upendra, 7/1/76) Can anyone reading this imagine Srila Prabhupada writing personal letters to his disciples explaining the entire philosophy is in his books, and then tellling others that they can't get it from his books? That is an insane proposition. Hare Krsna
  20. Quite simply. If someone was attracted to chanting the holy name as a result of my Sankirtana activities, and approached me to gain more knowledge about how they could get more involved, I would tell them That a pure saint is my master, and that I am doing my best to accept his discipline and represent his wishes. That in order to understand that discipline most fully, they should read Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad Gita. That they could continue to chant congregationally with me and my associates, and witness our other activities. Over time, they would read and understand the criteria that Srila Prabhupada, and the past Acarya's, offer to the aspiring disciple. Over time associating with me, they would see that I am not an advanced devotee on the level of Srila Prabhupada. They would see me doing my best to represent him. They would infer that they have the same opportunity to represent him, and simultaneously they would have some faith in my adhikari, knowing that I did not MIS-represent myself, nor Srila Prabhupada. Thus through watching me and my associates WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY READING SRILA PRABHUPADA'S GITA AND THEN BHAGAVATAM, THEY CAN UNDERSTAND FULLY WELL WHO THE MAHABHAGAVAT ACARYA IS BY OBSERVING HIS QUALIFICATIONS, WHICH IN RELATION TO HIS POSITION AS JAGAD GURU WERE NEVER ANYTHING BUT HIS PURPORTS AND INSTRUCTIONS. In addition, by behaving this way, they can come to their own conclusion about my mastery of discipleship and treat me accordingly. Ah hah!!! Hare Krsna
  21. Yes, in the same way that Lord Brahma had the plan originally, and then bore sages, progenitors, demigods, demons etc, and gave them all instructions according to their potentials and capacities according to guna and karma... We may as well consider ourselves in the same position, Srila Prabhupada was the Lord Brahma or Spiritual Master of what type of societal living was to occur on those parcels of earth and structures built thereon which he claimed ownership of in Krsna's Service. Srila Prabhupada was given the vision of what to create by dint of his concentrated meditation on his Guru's order, and Sri Krnsa's lotus feet. Unlike Lord Brahma, none of us dare consider ourselves a kumara who when ordered to implement varnasrama dharma into the society claims higher taste and walks away, but if one is so daring, let's see what they got, MINUS Srila Prabhupada's properties of every variety. Those who will succeed to please Srila Prabhupada will become pure devotees through implementing his order, which seems impossible, just like Srila Prabhupada faced climbing off the Jaladuta into the Bowery NYC. For decades Srila Prabhupada was on the stump in India, meaning amidst the Kirtana and prasadam (literature included) distribution he constantly did he also preached tirelessly with the aim of organizing people into a cohesive unit, and was rebuked time and time again, simply patronized with enough donation to keep his saintly aura blessing the homes and districts he frequented, but that did not and could not hold him there, for he was looking to radically upset and revise the current social order as part and parcel of his Sankirtana Yajna. Just read the letters he wrote to politicians and great thinkers. He wanted them all to take advice from him about how to proceed in their lives!! He wanted to engage everyone he could reach out to. He had to come to America to get anyone to seriously consider what he was offering, and that only because some of us actually realized we needed what he had to give. There is no Vaisnava tradition current in India that is designed to engage a broad spectrum of western conditioned Jivas in some sadhana schedule of gradual purification. Designed to reach out to the most fallen and give each one the opportunity, if their heart desires, to begin their path of bhakti yoga starting from their current position in Guna and Karma. Srila Prabhupada's instructions are the traditions for the Sankirtana based society he envisioned for the time place and circumstance he was empowered to preach in. Time: End of Kali Yuga transitioning to mini Golden Age of Sankirtana Yajna. Place: Earth. Circumstance: Bring Sankirtana to 90% of the world. Every town and village. Under his blueprint, there was plenty of room for strong dynamic independent brahminical types to guide the gradual emergence of a Vaisnava village as result of successful Harinama Sankirtana and the needs commensurate with the people who perform Sankirtana for many decades. Those who claim to follow his authority, but can never seem to engage in group activities because everyone in the potential group seems to have a different interpretation of what Srila Prabhupada really wanted, are themselves likely doing the same thing. Change starts within. A sure sign you need change is if you are preaching in Iskcon temples, while harboring doubts about Srila Prabhupada. I hope some of us can meet up after we realize that we must look to the transcendentally descended instructions of the Acarya to resolve ALL difference of opinion on how to proceed cooperatively in trancendentally situated social activity. And pray for enough humility that we can faithfully see and accept his instructions as they are. Hare Krsna!
  22. Exercising the intellect cannot give us faith in transcendental realities. One will never experience transcendental realities as a direct result of intellectually speculating about that reality which is transcendental to intellect. So one either has faith in their identity as a false ego and active intellectual materialist, or faith in their spiritual identity and that realm. By the Grace of Guru do we gain some transcendental perception of ourselves and reality which we then forever have faith in. Then reality faithfully guides our intellect. If there is any tendency to use the intellect to try and reduce God to its constraints, I am both happy and sorry to say that Krsna reserves the right to be himself regardless of what anyone uses their conditioned mind to "think" he is. Of course God comprehends and sympathizes with the scientific mindset, it is one of the 81 material manifestations of false ego and other elements. It may appear that it was the strong scientific method applied and executed by an inquiring person that revealed God to them, but actually God was revealling himself in a way took advantage of that bad habit, and eventually exhausted the useless material-based speculative scientific method. Mercy. Just as there are many ways to approach and understand the Lord, Bhakti mixed with Jnana, Karma, etc., just remember those methods were based in temporary material conditioning, one use only, discard and do not recycle.
  23. For those who accept His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada as an authority on what is and what is not in Bhakti yoga, and accept his books and other preaching mechanisms to be fully revelatory, here are two separate paragraphs from the same lecture which point to, in theory, exactly how submissive to spiritual authority we must be and what rewards await such as Dictation from Krsna within the material realm, and yes the kind where HE TALKS TO YOU. Note also the classic and fully satisfying definition of disciplic succession. Success is when the disciple accepts because the Saintly person accepts. It is a matter of faith.
  24. Here! Here! Hari Bol! Look here, that may as well have been a point of order, and I second the motion, are there any moderators out there who can strike all these slaps at Krsna's face from the record? Or perhaps lock down this topic and mark it with skull and cross bones as a twisted memorial to the Slumber-Vadi's who slept through Vaisnava 101 and are truly infering blasphemous things about the Sweetness and Love of our Krsna for his devotees.
  25. Well Murali, I have yet to find anything so sublime and inconceivably wonderful than the discovery that I can freely choose to accept descending authority from someone I trust. My choice. It is also inconceivable good fortune that such trust and recognition was born in me, and all I can say on that is that the experience is worth a thousand words. Preaching about it to those who haven't let it in yet is another story. The defenses they put up are actually painful to my sensual perception on that level, and it is the greatest irony that we can mistake what is really a gift for an attack, and reject it. And we can experiencing someone rejecting something we KNOW would be better for them then what they are holding on to, and be truly disappointed FOR them, and then just resort to the shelter of knowing Krsna isn't done with them yet! And for those cheated by incompetent pretenders to spiritual mastership... They are once bitten, twice shy, but ultimately this steels a persons resolve against the shysters who would make one their b!+(# and keeps one focused inward until nice and ripe for the plucking by lucky number 3, a True Guru who admits only to be a willing disciple of his Guru, a servant of the servant, embodied in the form of a personal confidante, mentor, and well wisher, who never deviated from the order of his Guru. Some call it idealistic and not realistic, but hey, Krsna consciousness is real idealism, if we believe in Krsna originating all possibilities for pleasures drawn from the simultaneous fulfillment of his devotees greatest desires in that realm of service. Win win. All glories to Sri Guru and Gauranga.
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