INNOCENT

I have found this extract written by someone in a website. In my perspective, I do respect and understand some of what he is trying to convey, but what I am most confused about is the inclusion of Yamraj and Shani Dev. “sangili karupan madurai veeran and muneeswaran are brothers and they have nine sisters muneswaan is also known as the moon gazer he will c sitting on the curv of the quarter moon he also has a job for all deamons he catches them between his legs and crushes them his other names are munespring baba he form when you will offer him rum and ciggarette sangili karupan rides a black bird chariot when he takes the form as shani dev also in the ramayan they showed hanuman flying with the mountain but when hanuman passed the bramuta triangle shani dev shot him down thats when they had the battle and hanuman chained his foot by the river and when hanuman left shani dev burst the chain and hanged it on his hand thats when he became the black chain master and after he went into the water and lived there for many yearswhen the gods in the water and vishnu and maha lakshmi crowned hin the king of the ocean and he became sangili karupan and after when maha kali mariamman took the form as badra kali and fighted the demons in lanka when sangili karupan came out of the ocean and help her fight her batle after the fight sangili karupan became the gaurd master for the doors of some homes and his name became sanganie baba the door master and now i'll move on to kaal bhairo kaal bhairo is the one who is the potecter of mother kali and mother durga there was a war once against a amn named durgam and kaal bhairo and hanuman stood behind her all through ou the battle after that maa got her name as durga maa after as kal bhairo helped his sister he took the head of durgam and kept it in his hand because durgam got a boon from bramha no matter who killed hin he would kave life in his head so thats why kaal bhairo holds the head in his hand after there was a war in the valley madurai and kaal bhairo defeated them and got his name as madurai veeran the highiest form of kaal bhairo where durga maa and maha kali took the form as kamachi and meenakshi where they ride on the horse with the warrior madurai veeran also here were deamons who were died and haunting areas so thats when kaal bhairo took the form as yam raj the king of death and collected them and the ones who diden't want to go he came with a scary face and his hair messy his vaines poping out of his eyes and he sat on a bull and draged them by there neck and sat and watched them so now people worshin him as pitri dev" Anybody is free to analyse the literature in which the person chose to support his perceptions of the masters. Please, anyone, elighten me, tell me what you think Jai Maha Kali..... Jai Maha Kala....

.........And then there was pujarie five o.... to enlighten me once more...... thanks again! I have not heard from you in a while. I know my inquistiveness and constant questioning is becoming very annoying. SORRY ABOUT THAT! That is how the Devis and Devtas have me.......I'm intoxicated by their love.............. ............... SITA RAMA

Sitarama, Just adding to the 'dutch' topic, I was once briefed on a type of worship called dutch form. An old pujarie once told me that offering buscuit and butter, even cigars along with rum is 'a dutch form of worship'. Based on what he has said, to my belief when some worshippers say they are offering buscuit and butter, cigars and rum to the three masters (sangali, muneshwaran and kala bhairava), I believe that they are offering those things to a Bhuth instead. I really am convinced here that many are being misguided by those who are ignorant to truth and the right way to do devotion. Seriously, logically, .....is it right to call upon the name of the devta and offer things, that most of us, may not want for ourselves? Are there any evidence to support this offering, or prove that offering these things, is a right way to perform devotion. Can anyone enlighten me?

PUJARIE FIVE O, SITARAMA, I AM AFRAID. IS THAT WRONG? I DON'T LIKE TO SPEAK THINGS THAT AM NOT SURE OFF. PLEASE UNDERSTAND 'they will not cause shame then to come on you by being the way you are.' PLEASE EXPLAIN FURTHER

I Know This Mantra For Dharti Mata, I Learnt It On My Own. U Can Learn It Once U Meditate And Concentrate On Dharti Mata. By The Way Pujarie Five O, Is Dharti Mata A From Of Lakshmi Mata?

PUJARIE FIVE 0, THANKS FOR THE CORRECTION. ALTHOUGH I DO USE THE CALENDAR IN THE KASHI KA PANCHANG, FOR GUIDANCE AS TO THE MOST AUSPICIOUS DAYS . U REALLY DON'T LET ANYTHING PASS BY WITH OUT QUESTION OR CRITIQUE? LOL!!! I AM VERY BUSY THESE DAYS!!! DO TAKE CARE. SITARAMA.

Sita Rama Bhairo Child, Kala Bhairava Asthami is on Saturday. Some will begin celebrations on Friday, however if you already prepared to celebrate tomorrow, perhaps Kala Bhairava wishes that you perform puja to him on Wednesday, and so it may happen. However if it is not to late perhaps you should wait till Friday or Saturday. Anyways, nevertheless devotion to Maha Kala Bhairava, any day and at anytime, would please him jus the same, as long as you don't forget his love. JAI MAHA KALA BHAIRAVA!!!!!

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 7.5pt" vAlign=top><TD class=DEFINITION width=17>1. </TD><TD class=DEFINITION style="PADDING-LEFT: 1pt">abstaining from sex: abstaining from sex on moral grounds </TD></TR><TR style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 7.5pt" vAlign=top><TD class=DEFINITION width=17>2. </TD><TD class=DEFINITION style="PADDING-LEFT: 1pt">sexually faithful: not having extramarital sexual relations </TD></TR><TR style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 7.5pt" vAlign=top><TD class=DEFINITION width=17>3. </TD><TD class=DEFINITION style="PADDING-LEFT: 1pt">pure in thought and deed: behaving in a pure way, with no immoral thoughts </TD></TR><TR style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 7.5pt" vAlign=top><TD class=DEFINITION width=17>4. </TD><TD class=DEFINITION style="PADDING-LEFT: 1pt">plain: plain, simple, and unadorned in style from what I perceived, devtas will present themselves to you in ways depending on how an individual presents themselves to the devtas, be it spiritually, physically and mentally. Not so? So devtas are attracted to chastity (physical, mental and spiritual purity). That is why we aim for chastity in our fast in preparation for devotion to them. But it is more correct and beneficial to maintain chastity as often as possible in order to attain eternal blessings and liberation. </TD></TR>Okay pujarie, let me try to understand. the meaning of chastity involves the following right? </TBODY></TABLE>

HEY EVERYONE! Now and then, I do visit many other temples in the country, I like the atmosphere very much, for gracing my presence at any temple, makes me happy and excited. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> I know that there will be people with negative characteristics in all temples. (That of which will tell u alone that mother disowns no one, despite their ignorance and wrong doings).<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> However, it must be remembered, that any where u go u will always meet all sorts of people! The greatest test for all of us is to learn how to live with these people AND ACCOMODATE EACH OTHER'S DIFFERENCES. Life is all about socialization. And socialization involves learning how to practice good ethics and teach the younger generation the value of sharing, respect, caring, appreciation, love, discipline and tolerance etc. Many of our religious leaders are so caught up in ego and riches. Temples and other religious shrines seem not to be a place of worship anymore but a growing business. The religious leaders are so concerned about the structure and status of temples, churches, mosques and are hardly concerned about the cognitive and spiritual development of those that they are leading. We need to grasp reality and set an example for our future. If our religious leaders are failing to lead us towards the right path of self actualization and living a decent life on earth, then we need to take control of our lives and be passionate for one another. We need to do something positive now. All of us have different forms of knowledge. All of us are gifted. All of us are unique. And all of us have strenghts. We therefore need to pull our knowledge, strenghts, and giftedness together. We must refrain from dwelling on one anothers weaknesses and mistakes. We must create our own destiny. We have to make a change. <o:p></o:p> <o:p>JAI MAHA DURGA!</o:p> <o:p>JAI MAHA KALI! </o:p>

hey bhairo child, How are u? Well, I pray alot and do alot of devotion. The devtas are merciful to my family. I really don't want them to suffer and I fear for the land that I dwell, but maybe my grandparents did what they did for a reason. I will not be at any haste to make any serious decision pertaining to the land but I will continue my own devotion. I perform temple duties at the mandir, but I don't do much devotion there. I prefer to do my own thing home. I do my best to rely on the guidance of the devtas and devis. All I need is faith, trust and belief in them. And most importantly I need to love them. So I do my best to be a great devotee and child to them. Thanks for being concern Sitarama........

Thank you marimuthu, You are indeed a blessing. It makes me very happy to be able to reconcile many things that I am unaware of. I am truly grateful for the knowledge shared May God Bless You!

marimuthu, we are grateful for enlightening our understanding. Please tell us more about the Dravidian cultures, especially the one/ones that are associated with manifestations of shakti and playing of the tapou drum. thank you, May God Bless You

HEY PUJARE FIVE O, BOY U REALLY KNOW HOW TO DROP IT ON AH MAN!!! ANY WAYS, I AM GRATEFUL FOR YOUR TIME WELL SPENT AND EFFORTS TO SHARE YOUR EXPLANATIONS. AND JUST FOR THE RECORD, I ALONG WITH OTHERS NOT CHASTISING ANYONE BRO, CAUSE.......... WE'RE JUST STILL LEARNING , OUR HEARTS WON'T STOP BURNING, CAUSE MANY OF US ARE HURTING.... JUS CAUSE WE'RE INNOCENT AND UNKNOWING............. sitarama, God Bless!

thanks Bhairo Child, I am grateful for your advice. I would do my best to see how i will make things work. Seetarama

hey marimathu, thanks for sharing this with me. So accepting the fact that Sanganee Baba is actually Sangili Karupan, then are you implying that it is wrong to say that our ancestors and others now are making a terrible mistake of performing devotion to this sub-deity?...................... hey well in my perspective i don't think it should be wrong cause, there have been those who were once alive and still alive and are prayed too, up to this date. Maybe when Sangili Karuppan was alive he performed great deeds and was blessed by the devtas to serve as a sub-deity. Perhaps he has a duty, like all other devtas to perform. I'm just trying to reason out here..... I mean, God is a great God in all forms. I believe that a sub deity is like a subordinate under a manager. In this case the manager is Lord Shiva.

DEAR marimuthu, SINCE I AND MANY OTHERS ARE CONTINOUSLY IN THE PROCESS OF LEARNING, I AM KEEPING A HUMBLE AND OPEN MIND, CONSIDERING WHAT U HAVE ATTEMPTED TO EXPLAIN PERTAINING TO THESE DISCREPANCIES AMONG THESE DEITIES. (KEEP IN MIND THAT I AM NOT TRYING TO CONTRADICT YOUR WORDS, I AM JUST TRYING TO CLARIFY....) MY BUDDIES AND I WORSHIP THREE MASTERS (THEY ARE ACKNOWLEDEGED BY DIFFERENT NAMES), (FORGIVE THE SPELLINGS): 1. SANGANEE BABA, DI BABA, KARPU SHAKTI DEVTA....... 2. KAL BHAIRO, MADURAI VEREN, VADU KATHNA (FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH) 3. MUNESH PREM, MUNGEZA BABA, PUNWHAL DEVTA, MUNI SPRING BABA.... (FORGIVE ME IF I AM NOT CORRECT, BUT THIS IS WHAT I HAVE LEARNT THROUGHOUT MY EXPERIENCE IN THIS WORSHIP). ALL THESE ARE DIFFERENT VARIATIONS THESE MASTERS ARE ACKNOWLEDGED BY.........NOW THE THREE MASTERS IS CONSIDERED THE GATEKEEPERS OF KALI MA'S GRACE AND ARE ACKNOWLEDGED AS THREE FORMS OF SHIVA. LIKE OTHER DEITES, MY SUPERIORS HAVE LINKED THEM WITH PARTICULAR CHARACTERISTICS AND BOONS OR JOBS THAT THEY PROVIDE FOR THEIR DEVOTEES. SANGANEE BABA IS LINKED WITH SPIRITUAL PROBLEMS ON LAND MAINLY. HE WORKS HAND IN HAND, WITH KATAYANI MATA OR KATERI MATA (I AM STILL TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHY THEY CALL HER KATERI). ANYWAYS HE IS ALSO THE MASTER OF JUSTICE AND THE MASTER OF THE MIND. IT IS SAID BY SOME THAT HE IS KATERI'S BROTHER. IT IS ALSO SAID THAT SHIVA TOOK THAT FORM IN A MEDITATIVE STATE, WHEN DHARTI MATA (MOTHER EARTH) CRIED OUT BECAUSE SHE COULD NOT BEAR THE SINS OF MEN. THEREFORE SANGANEE BABA CAME, ........HE HAS A SWORD, HIS CHARIOT IS A WHITE HORSE, AND HE IS ALL DRESSED IN CHAINS. SOME SAY THAT HE ROAMS ALL LANDS, IN MANY VARIOUS FORMS TO RID THE LANDS OF SINS AND EVIL SPIRITS. I WAS ALSO TOLD THAT HE WAS THE SON OF DHARTI MATA. AS FOR MUNESH PREM, HE IS MAINLY THE MASTER THAT BLESSES PEOPLE WITH FINANCE. I BELIEVE SOME PRAY TO HIM FOR A GIFT OF A CHILD AND EVEN FOR SMOOTH RUNNING RELATIONSHIPS. .........I WAS ALSO TOLD THAT HE COULD BE MUNESHWAR OR MUNESHWARAN, A FIERCE FORM OF SHIVA....(I AM NOT SURE).. MUNESH PREM DOES HOLDS A TRIANGLE IN HIS HAND AND A SWORD. IN THE PALM OF HIS BOTH HANDS HE HAS A STAR AND A CRESENT SHAPED MOON. AS FOR KAL BHAIRO, I WILL ACCEPT THAT HE IS NOT MADURAI VEREN, BECAUSE FROM MY RESEARCH I DO NOT SEE ANY LINKS TO KAL BHAIRO. I BELIEVE THAT HE IS KALABHAIRAVA AND IS JUS CALLED KAL BHAIRO HERE IN THE CARRIBBEAN. I ALSO HAVE A FAIR IDEA OF THE VAST FORMS THAT KALA BHAIRAVA TAKES. ( SOME EVEN SAY THAT ONE OF KAL BHAIRO'S FORMS IS MADURAI VEREN.... OKAY WELL THAT IS A DESCRIPTION AND SOME CHARACTERISTICS OF THESE DEITES. NOW THESE MASTERS ARE WORSHIPPED IN MANY TEMPLES IN THE CARRIBBEAN AND IN MANY WAYS.....MANY PRAY TO THEM IN THE SAME WAYS AS OTHER DEITES OFFERING FRUITS AND MILK ETC (I PRAY TO THEM IN THIS WAY). OTHERS CHOOSE TO PRAY IN OTHER WAYS LIKE OFFERING OF RUM, CIGARS AND MEAT (I STILL AM TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE PHILOSOPY BEHIND THESE TYPES OF OFFERINGS). NOW AT MOST INSTANCES THESE THREE MASTERS ARE PLACED ON AN ASTAN TOGETHER, AND AT A NORMAL SUNDAY SERVICE BEFORE PERFORMIN PUJAN TO MAINLY MOTHER KALI, THESE THREE MASTERS ARE ENTERTAINED, STARTING FROM SANGANEE BABA, FOLLOWED BY MUNESH PREM AND KAL BHAIRO WOULD BE THE LAST. (BEAR WITH ME BUT I AM JUST EXPLAINING THINGS HERE, TO GIVE YOU A FAIR IDEA OF WHATS BEEN GOING ON HERE AND THE PERCEPTIONS MANY HAS ABOUT THESE THREE MASTERS). NOW IN EXPLAINING THIS AND IN CONSIDERATION OF WHAT U SAID, I DO BELIEVE SO FAR THAT KAL BAIRO IS NOT MADURAI VEREN, IN RELATION TO EVIDENCE AS SUCH,...... BUT WHAT OF SANGANEE AND MUNESH PREM? AM I CORRECT TO SAY THAT MUNESH PREM BABA IS MUNESHWARAN? OR IS HE JUST LIKE MADURAI VEREN? CAN SANGANEE BABA REALLY BE SANGALINI KARRUPAN? WHAT DOES 'MATYRS' MEAN? PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND DO FEEL FREE TO SAY WHAT IS TRUE TO YOU, I WONT BE UPSET.............

Thank you rlachman2, i am glad that you are positively contributing to my understandings pertaining to this worship. I came into this worship as a blank slate with no knowledge or experience. Its nice to know that there are open-minded and concerned people out there.! Thanks for helping a stranger.................

Okay then rlachman2, Very harsh...... but I feel your beat bro ....... Blessings and guidance to you............

Thanks again Rlachman2, But a pusari? So those under the guidance and teachings of a Pujari is a Pusari?

ammmm sorry guest and members ........i had no idea one single message appeared so many times.................... do take care now and be kind and good to alll...... sita rama...........

Fellow devotees, pujaris, Please do not lash out on those that worship the devis and devtas differently. sitaram...

thank you passionate one........ i am grateful for the knowledge shared. take care... sitaram

thank you passionate one........ i am grateful for the knowledge shared and

thank you passionate one........ i am grateful for the knowledge shared

thank you passionate one........ i am grateful for the knowledge shared. take care... sitaram