Priitaa

Almost forgot this. I know one woman who shaved off all her hair and dressed like a total renunciant. Her temple president was not pleased with ths at all. I guess it made him feel uncomfortable, but his reasoning was different. (Something along the lines that only men can do these things.) So he wrote to Prabhuapda a letter. Prabhupada asked him how she lives her life, or if she is doing any service. The temple president replied that she does more service than darn near anyone in the temple. Then Prabhupada wrote back to say (I dont have exact quote but I DO remember the meaning) then it is all right. Like, no big deal. If she's serving Krishna, then it doesn't matter. So all these bodily rules of VAD are for the 'purpose' of getting us 'off' the bodily platform as well as to move us toward Krishna. But if those same rules are being misused or at least misunderstood to keep us on the bodly platform, or we if ourselves get stuck there, then we are missing the point. For one who is beyond them, there is no problem. Often we are mixed, or tinged, but at least we have to keep aiming in the direction of aham brahmasmi rather than 'I am my body.' /images/graemlins/smile.gif The more we serve Krishna and chant, the closer to that we become every day.

When I decided to research this topic, one thing I noticed is that we sometimes have different definitions for words from Prabhupada's. For example, I am on IWC (Internet/Iskcon Women's Conference). There the female devotees often talk about how they believe in equality but also in difference. That is, they don't want to be equal to men in the sense of turning into a man, what they want is to be "treated" equally. When I would read Prabhupada's words, for example one above says that a woman cannot be equal becuase she is different, or her function is different. This is really the same thing woman are saying, tho it needs to be looked at more closely due to our ways of using such words ourselves. So it appears to me anyhow, that Prabhupada is pointing out the difference between a male 'body' and a female 'body,' and that she can't turn into a male or do 'all' the things he can. Nor can a male do 'all' the things a woman can. Whereas when we look at how Prabhupada treated his female disciples, we see he always treated them with the utmost respect, treated them equally, never looked down on them or said "You can't drive because you're a woman," or "You can't preach or talk to strangers because you're a woman." He never even said, "I want you to become like Vedic woman of India. No. He gave us an even higher science, and therefore women would go out on sankirtana, or like Bibvati, wrote intelligent articles, had Jyotirmayi devi dasi give class, Jahnava dd (whom I still have contact with) was an artist, preformed drama and is in the Iskcon Ramayana movie, plus distributed books. Women cooked for the Deities (this is not allowed culturally), did Puja, and so on. That list can go on and on and on. Its not that he did two different things here. This part is clear. Therefore I feel we don't always understand the mind, or writings, of a pure Vaisnava and its why we need to read all of his books, more than once, before it even starts to seep in. ha Speaking from experience. (That is, still trying to get it to seep in.)

There is so much I could say here! Though I doubt I will cover it all. First, I agree with the devotee, I think it was Yasodhanandana, who said that Christ wasn't born on Dec 25th. The story I have heard is that the worship of a big oak tree was part of a Pagan religion. In order to convert them, they merged the appearnce day of Christ with the day of worshiping an oak tree. And so we have the Christmas tree! I always wondered what the heck that had to do with a manger. :-) Not sure if this is accurate but I also heard Christ was born in August! Anyway, as far as kids and Christmas are concerned, I agree with Kulapavana who mentioned how our children would feel if they didn't recieve any presents. Exactly. Even if living in the midst of a devotee community, they just 'know' that all children receive presents on Christmas. It would only help turn them away from Krishna consciousness if we were to deny them what everyone else around them is doing. When my children were little I use to try to dovetail things. We would get a tree, but would make some of our own ornaments out of construction paper, glitter, crayon, etc. and cut out pictures of Krishna, put him in the center of a cut out star for example. Then hang it on the tree with thread. I would also make sure they got some presents, but that our Deities did too. And we would unwrap the Deities presents first. Matter of fact, the children had to buy GouraNitai (our Deities) a present too. It was cute. Everyone got something, even Lord Caitnaya and Nityananda. :-) And yes, any excuse to get together and chant Hare Krishna is fine. I suspect one reason Prabhupada may have let us have Christmas and New Years celebrations is because in the beginning many were attached, since that's the way most were raised. Also, he wasn't so much out to change our culture or any bona fide spirutal attachments (as Jesus is shaktyavesha avatara), so he helped us dovetail them. Tho New years is another story, ha, but at least devotees get together to eat prasad and have bhajana/kirtana, whereas nondevotees get together to break as many of the 4 regulative principles they can. After I did research for my three web pages on Christ and Krishna, I was surprised how strict he was! Some of the things I would read, I began to feel I could not do. That many of us could not do. What we learn in Christian church is not so much what Christ actually taught. There, we are trained to focus on his merciful side, which he definitely had, but he was extremely strict. It made me appreciate him more, and also how fortunate I have been to discover Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada lets us do things Jesus did not let his disciples do. For example, and this one is even in the current Bible and not hidden, Christ said to one who wanted to be his follower, to "leave the dead to burry the dead." (His father had just passed away and the man wanted to join Christs movement, but to first burry his father.) I have heard several stories where Prabhupada let a devotee return to burry a parent or attend their funeral. ~~ I just realized this may be misuderstood. I am not saying Jesus wasn't merciful, not at all. What I am trying to express is that modern Christianity misrepresents him, and by so doing they don't have to pick up their own cross and do much of anything other than go to church on Sunday. Well, enough of this. :-) Back to chanting Hare Krishna. I bet Jesus is! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

There are plenty of herbal teas that also contain high levels of antioxidents, and I am pretty sure carob does too. I use to have an article about all the health benefits of carob. Tho I dont have it now, I remember it was packed! I bet if you do a netsearch for "carob antioxidents" you will find it is higher in them than chocolate. As for red wine, even Dr Weil said grape juice has the same antioxidents as the wine without the alcohol. Hope this helps.

In addition to all of the above, I also suspect that in English, the word "spirit" can also refer to ghots and not just a soul. But you put the word "soul" behind it, and that clarifies it.

Yes, we know there's no mixing of the sexes. Prabhupada has set up a standard for us, and its the one we should maintain.

In Krishna consciousness......... Srila Prabhuada has explained that when one commits suicide they must stay on this earthly plane in the form of a ghost. They are forced to wander the earth in that state until their natural life span would have ended. While here they still feel hunger in a ghost body, still thirst, even sex desire, but have no way to satisfy any such desires because the body they could do that in, they have destroyed. Therefore it is a very frustrating position at best. However if you put this post up because you know someone who has all ready committed suicide, there are ceremonies you can preform to help them. If it is you considering it, well, ceremonies work best for those who aren't counting on them or looking for a loophole. Or you may just be philosophically curious. In any case, should someone give you a gift, and you throw it on the floor and break it, that is very thankless. God has given us the gift of this body, so we need to be thankful for it and use it to "properly." The purpose of this human form of life is God Consciousness or Krishna consciousness. Animals cannot do it, only reincarnating to the point of human birth, then we are given this opportunity. Yes, life can be rough, but if we stick with it we can get through it and even out the other side. Can't rush or cheat the process. Gotta do it step by step, and then we achive the goal. Hare Krishna.

Nooooo lol I'm busy taking on the ISKCON hater guy. ha (Actually, I'm not exactly doing that.) You can have this one (topic). Ok, ok, I'll share. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Actually Thiest, I am glad you did make that post or I was going to, and I really don't feel like it. ha But this impersonalism confused to be the same as Krishna consciousness (Personalims) needs clearing up, regularly. And that is why Prabhupada came to the west. Well, one reason.

And again and again, until you learn to stop making offenses. You blaspheme Prabhupada, his books, his movement, his devotees, and his teachings. Yet try to claim you make no offenses. I am not afraid to say you are when you factually are.

I do not appreciate you using my post in the way you have. So I want to clear things up. You are lumping in all ISKCON devotees. I never said they are all like that. AND my complaint was for those who have also lived it, therefore ISKCON members, not for someone who loves to criticize ISKCON but glorify Hindu's. I have no problem with Hindus, but you clearly have problem with ISKCON. In any case, don't try to make it sound like serious problems do not exit with Hindus, because I could give you a list of those too. Stop using every chance you get to put us down and glorify yourself. I can tell you horrible things Hindus have also done, so don't force my hand. I myself do not discriminate, but you do. YS, Priitaa dd

Yes, ok, thats probably why They are in the center. Thanks for the lecture. I don't usually do downloads, tho I gave this one a shot and it was audio. I thought it was the written lecture. ha So, my comp gets clogged up with audio. Thats why I recently got an MP3 player. Its great! And now I'm getting spoiled. ha Hearing Prabhupada every day! That site you got the download from, I only recently discovered it and it looks very nice. I need to go back again.

Were GauraNitai the first Deities ever in the Atlanta temple? That could be why They are in the center.

Yeah, in New Vrndavana the Jagannatha Deities are on the left and the total other side (tho left side) of the room. Then up in the front are GaruaNitai (etc). Prabhupada is on the right side of the room (opposite Jagannatha Deities), whereasn at most temples he's in the back or in a few cases on the left & before all Deities. Go figure. ha Thats why in my last post I said GauraNitai is on the left and Jagannatha is on the right at "most" ISKCON temples. Because I think these (and a few others) are really the exceptions.

In most ISKCON temples you will see GauraNitai on the left, and the Jagannatha Deities on the right. Yes, side by side and not one in front, one in back. Hope this helps.

I just wanted to say, don't let your mom get to you. Its true that I dont know her point of view from her, but I have often heard how good Hindu's become angry when children take Krishna conscioiusnes seriously. In any case, its best not to irriate her, as sometimes in our effort to gain approval, we are really upsetting someone by keeping at the same topic over and over. You can still get along with her and just do your saddhna in private. She may be scared due to seeing you taking it into every area of life, tho you are correct in this. If we want to get out of the mateiral world, how do we think that can be achieved if we are not finding some way to meditate on Krishna's Holy Name in one way or another? Yet, there is no reason to unnecessarily agitate her mind. If you can do these things in a way that would keep the peace, thats a good idea. BUT don't give them up. Simply, chant Hare Krishna and be happy. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

LOL You are right. It is late, I am tired, so my tolerance level is low. Thanks for making me laugh about it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Therefore you shouldn't be commenting. You know nothing of how qualified or unqualified I am, or any devotee here. I suggest you stop judging. My post was directed to those who accept Srila Prabhupada as a pure deovtee, thus his translations as the Absolute Truth. That is who I was asking and they will also be the ones who understand my question. Your reply shows you do not.

Prabhu, its not so much how I feel, its just the way it usually plays out. More devotees develop an interest in the books that are banned. I've seen it happen over and over.

Gaurasundara prabhu, Thanks for the reply. You gave me a clear cut answer, unlike anonymous "Guest," who tore my post apart to make personal points, many which had nothing to do with my question.

WOW Thanks! I'm going to order this today or tomorrow at the latest!

gH, I feel it is normal for our kids to question and even to not think about all this for a period of time. After all, we joined, whereas they were born into it. Sometimes they have to go out into the material world and get kicked in order to appreciate what they had, or to "join" too. It takes time tho, and can also take repeated kicks. I have one kid who gives me harder time than the other, but I see gradual advancement. And at least has Deities in the home, etc. But philosphical points need clarification. Ddue to all the nonsense that went down which unforuntaly was prested as if it were Krishna consciousness, it takes a long time to get it thru to them that it was not Krishna consciousness at all. Gradually though, it does get through. We just have to remain their friend (yet, parent) as no one will be there for them the way we will, and when they are feeling affection for us, we can sometimes throw in a little, mellow preaching. I have heard even professional therapist say, 'Don't think your kids dont have you when you talk, they do! So give them good morals and guidelines.' IMHO, that applies to giving them Krishna consciousness too.

I also have a question. I consider the translating of Sanskrit scripture to be very important, should be done well, and by spiritually qualified persons. For this reason, I first would want to know some of the translator's life. Is he a strict (not fanatical) devotee? Did he learn Sanskrit from a personalist or impersonalist, or from where? Does he rely on Prabhupada's word-per-word, etc., translations for his own translations? Please pardon me, as its not about juding him or anyone. Simply, before I am going to accept something on the level of the Absolute, I first need to know these things.

gHari, I know so little on skating, but I do know what it's like to be a parent. Raising children in kali yuga is so hard that whenever kids do good, we should show appreciation. So I want to say CONGRATULATIONS!

You took the words right out of my mouth. What I didn't put in my last post, but it had crossed my mind, was, "If someone were to tell me a book is on the ISKCON "bad" list, I would KNOW its a good book!" lol Yes, that is the best advertising they can do - ban a book. LOL Right.