brajeshwara das

Bhagavad-Gita by A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, 1972 edition, so Prabhupada's full potency comes through. Best place to start.

 

CB-R

So who decides? Who says 'you are there, you are there'?

There is never a good reason to reject the parampara.

 

CB-R

I think it may be more complex than you know, and again, you should be careful.

This so beneath an advanced vaisnava that it warrants no more reply.

 

CB-R

You are calling yourself an advanced vaisnava? I mean no disrespect, just looking for clarification.

This is the factual objection. Who chooses? The GBC??? OMG. All their friends are brahmanas and everyone else is to work for them. No thanks.

Yep, this is the major problem. There may be more also, Srila Govinda Maharaj etc are not doing this either, possibly there are other good reasons.

A couple of things today:

One project I manage is on Build 1.08

Another project I manage I'm entering results in a database that has test cases numbered 1-200. All pass except 108, so 108 is staying at the top of my window.

Anyway...

So, what are his explicit instructions on how to determine who is in what section? Do we choose this ourselves, concensus, GBC like body, who? Sorry, I don't have the book.

You didn't read the reference? Srila Prabhupada has said that His spitiual master said like this, to engage in DVD. I posted the reference. That means all of Gaudiya Maths. Or is the SCSMath now disconnected? No, of course not.

 

But you also have a point, if your guru says different then you should do like that. And I will continue to say all of Gaudiya sampradaya, based on the explanation of my Prabhupada that DVD is the mood of the PARAMPARA, you can not avoid this. And I have made no offence to you by repeating such!

 

Bhaktivinoda Thakur has also said.

 

This is a little waste of posts and time, let us go to implementation and what can be done NOW, please move on. With a little reserch the simple things can be answered.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-Raja

Sorry, I guess I jumped the gun a bit. And I never felt offended myself.

Very nice pictures!

In practical terms all this varnashrama talk is simply mental plane. There is no way of imposing it formaly on society. One has to get a grasp on his or hers own natural tendancies and try to use those propensities in Krsna's service.

 

What is the practical, down to earth plan you have in mind Cd? Without such a practical plan all this talk of implenting varnashrama is simply a fantasy.

Yes, what is the plan for implementing this? Did Srila Swami Maharaj outline one, and if not can ISKCON do so without guidance from the acharya?

Stop finding faults outside of ourselves and look to fix the ones on the inside.

I had to visit Shanghai a few times over the last few years. I learnt something curious about naming there which may be relevant to this thread.

 

The chinese have chinese names for every location and that is what the locals know. For example, the Radisson hotel is not known as Radisson among the locals of Shanghai. For every foreign name, they find a list of Chinese words which sound like the foreign name and then pick the one which has the most beautiful meaning. Telling a cab driver to take you to the Hyatt will not work. You will have to have the chinese name of the place written down in their script and that is the only way of communicating with the cab driver. This type of alternate naming is not found in India where Radission and the Hyatt are known to locals by their original names - most likely because english is more widely adopted in India than in PRC.

 

You may want to try something similar. Create a list of sanskrit nouns sounding similar to your name and then pick the one with the most beautiful meaning.

 

Cheers

I think this also has a lot to do with the fact Chinese isn't a phonetic alphabet, so you can't spell it like in other languages. You have to choose characters that sound like what you are trying to write. Also I think they try to avoid the bad more than look for the most beautiful, in line with Chinese 'luck' concepts. India has written English for so long, so no problem, but I think that is the key reason they do this in China.

If you are offended please excuse me. But Srila Prabhupada has said in no uncertain terms;

 

 

SB.5.1.24 purport

 

"Sometimes we are criticized because although I am a sannyasi, I have taken part in the marriage ceremonies of my disciples. It must be explained, however, that since we have started a Krishna conscious society and since a human society must also have ideal marriages, to correctly establish an ideal society we must take part in marrying some of its members, although we have taken to the path of renunciation. This may be astonishing to persons who are not very interested in establishing daiva-varnasrama, the transcendental system of four social orders and four spiritual orders. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, however, wanted to reestablish daiva-varnasrama. In daiva-varnasrama there cannot be acknowledgement of social status according to birthright because in Bhagavad-gita it is said that the determining considerations are guna and karma, one’s qualities and work. It is this daiva-varnasrama that should be established all over the world to continue a perfect society for Krishna consciousness. This may be astonishing to foolish critics, but it is one of the functions of a Krishna conscious society."

 

 

I hope we can move on from here with your blessing and support as you have said you would give if proven wrong.

 

CB-R

You do not listen well. I said I am not Srila Swami Maharaj's disciple, and you shouldn't make sweeping statements that we all should follow him or be deviating. He says he created his society and and in ISKCON is setting up the rules there, that is perfect and all who are initiates of him should follow. As I said I am not sure one way or the other what Srila Govinda Maharaj's view is on this, but I will follow that when I know. There was no 'proven wrong' here and if anything you should be more careful not to be offensive or assume Srila Swami Maharaj is the only authority and all others are deviants. This is offensive and you will suffer if you continue to think in this way. Let's get back to the topic at hand, but I want to be clear on this.

We should consider we are the rascals. That's my opinion. Srila Prabhupada was Guru, he can do that, you shouldn't.

GuestCBhakti: Please, please withold from assuming that we all are following Srila Swami Maharaj Prabhupada's instructions directly, and if not we are deviating. He is a tree of the Gaudiya Math, but my particular line is from Srila Sridhar Maharaj, and I'm not aware of specific instructions to implement varnashramdharma in our Math. If so then I will happily follow as I feel naturally there are these tendencies. But please be clear and respectful. We are not in the parampara of Srila Swami Maharaj. We are not deviating and for you to say so is an offense to the exalted vaisnavas of SCSMath.

Just try and please the devotees, don't worry if they like you, even be extra nice to the ones you have problems with. Try and make Krsna your friend, everyone else make your master. They are Prabhus. Serve them, even if they are harsh with you. You will attract your best friend thisway, Krsna is attracted to the negative. And try not and call them names, even in your own mind. That is offensive and will do you great harm.

"The Socialists see the everyone as workers. That's an improvement from the capitalists' view that all are exploiters, but better to see everyone as a servants of the Lord"

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I would think that since many people would become socialists because they see how the people in general can get exploited by those who have poweer, they may be inclined to fear such tendencies (to exploit those under you) could be in God, and as such might be less inclined to trust and turn to religion (which unfortunately is often not the same as turning to God) but instead trust themselves to try to fix things in the world around them. All to often tho, those who rise to the top in such groups (be it comunism or simple unions) may end up primarily making a better life for themselves and think of those "under" them a distant second.

Yes, very good point.

I think the best thing for Vaisnavas is not to compromise our philosophy to make it acceptable to the general public. Work on the packaging of course, make it attractive, but nothing is missing from it that needs to be supplemented with Socialism.

Similarly, the guru you recognize as self-effulgent will probably not be recognized as such by a majority of the people around you. It's a heart-to-heart transaction, and you won't be able to make any other. If you settle instead for the guru "everybody else" TELLS you is self-effulgent, you'll be cheated. Follow your heart, and don't expect to follow a crowd, and you'll do fine.

Besides your heart, follow this very sound advice!

DVD seems so natural to me that some people can easily be identified in thier particular roles and I could never see them doing otherwise. For instance I'm pretty sure I'm a ksatriya even though my false ego always wants to be a brahman. I know I'm no vaisha as I will give everything away for free, I just can't do business. I always end up in administrative roles even when I fight it. I don't see another way than to try and follow it, but am a bit afraid of how it could be implemented wrongly. It could be abused.

Why are you surprised that people seeking to get rid of thier materialistic problems have problems? I think that is what he means. It is better that we focus on tolerance, humility, and offering honor to others and avoid seeing the faults in the devotees as who they are. Those faults in others are also in us to a degree, more or less who can say? We should pray they and we receive the mercy from Guru to overcome these anarthas. It isn't self-hatred to acknowledge the fault in ourselves, but the first step towards healing. And healing means becoming more tolerant, more humble, and more respectful. Feeling the way you do about others should indicate to you a deep problem in yourself. Those feelings are materialistic, you are caught up in them and that is understandable, most of us do that constantly. But see them for what they are, your enemy, not the devotees you are feeling them about. You can even learn from those devotees by not following thier negative examples, so it is mercy coming to you. Just do the right thing, be good, don't worry if others are good. You have enough to work out on your own.

I like to remember that an ashram is like a hospital, it is for the sick in need of mercy. I try and see everyone else there as fellow patients with similar conditions to be healed. And remember I am a patient, not the doctor.

There are mariages in Krishna Loka, right? Krsna has a father and mother etc. I would have to think that there is some form of partnerships in service. This material world is a perverted reflection, but it is a reflection. If there is not a root there in that plane, how can there reflection here?

So then the debate became so heated that they both dropped dead while clasping hands?

 

Jai

That's the mental speculation, yes. If I say it enough times I'll believe it's true, that's how that works for me anyway

Maybe they were two panditas (philosophers) in heated debate.

 

Yes, and we know what the question is, don't we - orgin of the soul, spiritual world or marginal plane?

Or maybe it's a couple of men in love in that way.

 

Jai

They might just be a couple of men

Who's trying to impersonate me? Oh, that would be me.

It could turn out to be a couple of men who were also in love, but not in that way

Haribol!

 

Who says those skeletons were not devotees? Obviously this is all just speculation but simply because they loved each other does not mean they did not love god. Do we not have devis in our scriptures who were satis? Are there not purusha in our shastra who sacrificed everything to protect their wives? ie Rama and Sita.

 

If those two skeletons turn out to be a woman and a man, how do we know she did not love him as Krishna? How do we know he did not love her as Radha?

 

I think that picture is very romantic and sad and beautiful. We should see the good in the world, not the deficiencies. And I hope that if I ever get married then I love my husband that way too, like he is Krishna come to me in human form and I could never bear to be parted from him, even in death.

 

Jai

I think the point is it is speculation exactly what they are doing, and that people romanticize the death and are making a big deal about it without knowing what's really going on. We're just having some speculation of our own, and using it to contrast spiritual love with what is normally known as love in the material world. Of course there is often a spiritual element in many unions, so I mean no disrespect.