Streetstraw

Pope to Bush: Go into Iraq and You Go Without God

Capitol Hill Blue

Wednesday 5 March 2003

Pope John Paul II has a strong message for President George W. Bush: God is not on your side if you invade Iraq.

But the President told the pope's envoy the leader of the world's Catholics is wrong.

Pleading for peace, an emissary from Pope John Paul II questioned Bush Wednesday on whether he was doing all he could to avert what the envoy called an "unjust" war with Iraq.

Bush said removing Saddam Hussein would make the world more peaceful.

The president met with Cardinal Pio Laghi, a former Vatican ambassador to the United States and a Bush family friend, on Ash Wednesday, the

I don't blame Bush alone because, like Reagan, bombastic billionaires had to choose/SELECT someone who was dumb enough to go along with so much ugra-karma, that is, take visible responsibility for leading Amerika down such dark destructive paths.

Rambo Ronny claimed he didn't know Colonel Oliver North was breaking Federal & International law literally right under his nose... in White House basement.

mattaH smRtir jnAnam apohanam ca (Gita 15.15)

Now Krishna has given Ronaldo something not to remember: EVERYTHING!

Most Amerikans think we lost only 144 soldiers in 1991 1st Gulf War.

Actually, 10,000 young Amerikans have died of Gulf War related diseases since then.

Plus our VA is looking at not less than 200,000 Gulf War related disability claims.

Depleted Uranium is nothing to sneeze at.

Amerika's Commercial Media will never reveal such facts, pig stool that they be.

Excuse me, I just insulted pigstool. Sorry.

Like Father, like Son...

PrabhupAd said: "Even if u take Krishna as an ordinary historical person, when u examine His Life carefully, no one can equal or surpass Krishna in any way.

Therefore even empirically u will conclude:

He is either God or the greatest person who ever walked upon this Earth Planet."

Our present DC occupiers, even more primitive and scary than Reagan's crew, are doing an SUPERexcellent job...

OF spreading anti-Imperialist sentiment.

Who starred in THE UGLY AMERIKAN? Marlon Brando?

BERLIN (March 3) - Horst Buchholz, a German actor whose film roles ranged from a gunslinger in ``The Magnificent Seven'' and a Nazi doctor in ``Life is Beautiful,'' died Monday of pneumonia. He was 69.

Buchholz, who was recovering from a broken thighbone, died in intensive care at the Charite hospital, spokeswoman Kerstin Ullrich said.

Dubbed the James Dean of German films for the rebellious teens he played in the late 1950s, Buchholz moved to the United States and scored his first Hollywood hit with a role in ``The Magnificent Seven,'' the 1960 western with Yul Brynner, Steve McQueen and James Coburn.

The next year, director Billy Wilder cast him alongside James Cagney in ``One, Two, Three.'' Set around the building of the Berlin Wall, the biting comedy features Cagney as a Coca-Cola executive who learns his boss' daughter has secretly married a communist, played by Buchholz.

He also made movies in Britain, Spain, Italy and France, and played a Nazi concentration camp doctor in Roberto Benigni's Oscar-winning 1997 film ``Life is Beautiful.''

Born Dec. 4, 1933, in Berlin's working-class Prenzlauer Berg district, the shoemaker's son survived World War II in the countryside where Nazi officials sent children to protect them from Allied bombing raids on the capital.

Buchholz landed his first stage role at 15 in a Berlin theater version of the German children's classic ``Emil and the Detectives.'' His Broadway debut came in 1959 in ``Cherie.''

He is survived by his wife, Myriam Bru, and two children. Funeral arrangements were pending.

03/03/03 19:39 EST

================

One may ask: what connects Buchholz to Gandhi?

Watch "NINE HOURS TO RAMA"; then you'll know.

It surpasses 1984 GANDHI film in many ways.

UNITED NATIONS (March 6) - France, China and Germany continued Thursday to resist the Bush administration's drive toward war in Iraq, and Secretary of State Colin Powell and other foreign ministers headed to New York for a crucial meeting with the chief U.N. weapons inspectors.

Seeking a compromise ahead of Friday's meeting, Britain floated the idea of attaching a short deadline to a U.S.-backed war resolution that would give Saddam Hussein a few days to prove he has no more banned weapons - or face war.

The idea, first discussed by London and Washington several weeks ago, re-emerged as France, Russia and Germany - the leading voices of opposition to the U.S. resolution - warned they would block any U.N. authorization for military action.

Key swing states on the council seemed unwilling to commit to the U.S. position.

Complicating matters for the Bush administration were comments Wednesday from chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix, who said Iraq is now showing ''a great deal more'' cooperation.

Despite intense lobbying, the United States has been unable to muster the nine votes required to adopt a resolution approving war against Iraq and opposition remains strong.

Chinese President Jiang Zemin told Jacques Chirac of France in a phone call Thursday that a new U.N. resolution was not necessary and that he supports using ''political means'' to solve the crisis. ''The door of peace should not be closed,'' the official Xinhua News Agency quoted Jiang as saying.

German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer also spoke of the ''great importance'' of continuing weapons inspections. Fischer is to arrive in New York later Thursday along with Powell who begins a final diplomatic drive to convince war-wary council members to back the use of force.

Foreign ministers on a newly appointed Arab League committee were also expected at the United Nations Thursday for talks with Secretary-General Kofi Annan.

Throughout Wednesday, clusters of Security Council diplomats met in the delegates' lounge at the United Nations, drinking coffee from paper cups and going over compromise options.

Russian Ambassador Sergey Lavrov met with Canadian Ambassador Paul Heinbecker, who proposed setting an end-of-March deadline for Iraqi compliance. The ambassadors of Mexico, Chile and Pakistan discussed the merits of the British idea.

Iraqi Ambassador Mohammed Al-Douri stood at the middle of the room fingering a strand of worry beads. At the end of the day, Washington announced that it was expelling two of Al-Douri's staffers, accusing them of engaging ''in activities outside the scope of their official function.''

Al-Douri described the two men as security personnel, who live in the basement of the Iraqi mission. According to Al-Douri, the men have until Friday to leave the country.

Annan appealed Thursday to arriving foreign ministers to discuss the Iraq crisis calmly. ''The positions are very hard now. I am encouraging people to strive for a compromise to seek common ground,'' he said.

On Wednesday, Britain, under intense pressure at home to win U.N. support, began tentatively talking about the possibilities of imposing a deadline on Iraq.

Diplomats, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the ideas would not alter the wording of the U.S.-British-Spanish draft resolution. Instead it would tack on verbally, or in writing, a warning to Saddam to prove within a specific time frame that he has given up weapons of mass destruction.

While Washington and London believe they already have the authority from previous resolutions to wage war against Iraq, new U.N. support would mean international legitimacy and the chance to share the costs of humanitarian relief and reconstruction.

British Ambassador Jeremy Greenstock told council members last week that the while the current draft resolution would authorize war, adoption didn't mean that war was imminent.

Powell and others will then attend a Security Council meeting on Friday where Blix and his counterpart, Mohamed ElBaradei, will brief members on Iraqi cooperation with inspections and disarmament. For many council members, Friday's reports will be key in deciding whether to vote for the U.S.-backed resolution.

Although the Bush administration has sent mixed signals in recent days about when or whether it would call for a vote on the resolution, diplomats said one was expected by March 13.

In a preview of his report Wednesday, Blix painted a more positive picture of Iraq's disarmament efforts than he did a week ago, and his comments were in sharp contrast to those delivered minutes later in Washington by Powell.

Powell called inspections futile and said Iraq's ''too-little, too-late gestures are meant not just to deceive and delay action by the international community'' but rather to create divisions.

Speaking at the United Nations, Blix said he would welcome the continuation of U.N. inspections for several more months and mapped out plans well into the summer.

In a written report to the council last Friday, Blix said Baghdad's disarmament efforts had been ''very limited so far.'' But since that report was written Iraq has made greater efforts, he said.

Destruction of Iraq's Al Samoud 2 missiles, which began Saturday, ''is the most spectacular and the most important and tangible'' evidence of real disarmament, he said.

In addition, Iraq also ''took the initiative'' to dig up a site where it said it neutralized and buried 157 R-400 bombs filled with biological agents in 1991 ''and they are showing there are more bombs'' than previous U.N. inspectors established, he said.

Iraqi scientists are also submitting to private interviews on inspectors' terms.

''You have a greater measure of cooperation on interviews in general,'' Blix said, noting that seven scientists had recently been questioned privately inside Iraq.

AP-NY-03-06-03 1241EST

So far I've heard, Turkey's Parliament just voted against falling prey to US bribery and coersion, that is, against facilitating US troops ALONG Turkey's Iraqi border.

Somewhere it's written: CONVINCE

1) brahmanas with logic

2) ksatriyas with praise, flattery

3) vaisyas with payola = envelopes under the table

4) sudras with argumentum vaculum - a stick

---------------------------

Turkey Delays Vote on Allowing In U.S. Troops for Iraq War

By Dexter Filkins

New York Times

Thursday 27 February 2003

ISTANBUL — Turkey's leaders postponed a scheduled parliamentary vote today on whether to allow American combat troops to use the country as a base against Iraq. The move came amid indications that the ruling party was having difficulty mustering the necessary support.

Turkish officials said the vote would be held on Saturday. That would allow time for Prime Minister Abdullah Gul and other senior leaders to meet with the country's senior military leaders, who are believed to support the American plan.

The decision to delay the vote on American troops followed statements made today by a spokesman for Turkey's president, Ahmet Necdet Sezer, that the Constitution required Parliament to find that the operation involving the deployment of American troops had "international legitimacy." Many Turks have interpreted that as a call for Parliament to wait for a second United Nations Security Council resolution authorizing the use of force against Iraq.

Turkey's president cannot veto a parliamentary resolution authorizing troops, but his opinion is considered important here. One senior Turkish official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said his country's leadership was so worried about the potential political fallout from a vote to allow American troops that the president's comments had prompted the delay until after a meeting of Turkey's national security council, which the president chairs.

"They are worried about the day after the vote," the Turkish official said.

Turkey's military, which has intervened in domestic politics repeatedly over the years, is thought to favor allowing American troops. The Turkish official said the country's elected leaders might be trying to use the meeting to protect themselves politically, by suggesting that it was the generals who suggested that they support the measure.

Tayyip Erdogan, the leader of the governing Justice and Development Party, has signaled his support for the resolution and predicted that his party will come together for the vote. But there were indications that many members of the party, which commands a large majority, might not be willing to go along.

"I don't think it is correct for Turkey to be part of such an American invasion," Ibrahim Hakki Askar, a legislator from the Justice and Development Party, said in an interview. "A serious group of electors are against this war."

The United States has been trying for weeks to persuade Turkey's leaders to open up its bases to American troops for an invasion of Iraq. But the agreement has bogged down on a number of issues, including economic aid and the possible intervention of Turkish troops in northern Iraq.

Today, Turkey's defense minister, Vecdi Gonul, said his government had reached an agreement with the Americans on military issues, including the deployment of soldiers into northern Iraq.

The issue is a sensitive one, with the deployment opposed by the Kurds of northern Iraq, where they have set up an autonomous region apart from that ruled by President Saddam Hussein of Iraq.

Turkey wants to send troops into the region to prevent refugees from fleeing to Turkey from Iraq, and to prevent the Iraqi Kurds from setting up their own state. The Turks fear that a Kurdish state in Iraq may stoke similar designs in their own Kurdish regions.

Under the agreement, according to Turkish officials, Turkish soldiers would venture no deeper than about 12 miles into Iraq and would be under Turkish command.

The agreement also allows Turkish soldiers to observe the disarmament of Kurdish militias, which would be expected to follow the defeat of Saddam Hussein and the establishment of a new national army. The Turkish soldiers would also observe the arming of any Kurdish soldiers carried out, presumably, by the American military in preparation for an attack war against Mr. Hussein's forces.

A Turkish government official said the Turks had given up a demand that they take part in the disarming of the Kurds, which Kurdish leaders in Iraq had vowed to resist.

Under the agreement, the Turkish military would also stay away from the northern Iraqi cities of Kirkuk and Mosel. They would be left to the American forces.

Mr. Erdogan said in a television interview that the number of Turkish troops entering northern Iraq would be double those sent in by the Americans. He suggested that they might venture deeper into the country if the need arose.

"They may go further down if necessary; it is not certain," Mr. Erdogan said.

Some pseudo-Aryans r about to invade a former Vedic land & people.

Symptoms of Kaliyuga: "Take the Laxmi & Run"

Some pseudo-Aryans r about to invade a former Vedic land & people.

Symptoms of Kaliyuga: "Take the Laxmi & Run"

EDITOR'S NOTE: What follows is a letter of resignation written by John Brady Kiesling, a member of Bush's Foreign Service Corps and Political Counselor to the American embassy in Greece. Kiesling has been a diplomat for twenty years, a civil servant to four Presidents. The letter below, delivered to Secretary of State Colin Powell, is quite possibly the most eloquent statement of dissent thus far put forth regarding the issue of Iraq. The New York Times story which reports on this remarkable event can be found after Kiesling's letter. - wrp

Go to Original

t r u t h o u t | Letter

U.S. Diplomat John Brady Kiesling

Letter of Resignation, to:

Secretary of State Colin L. Powell

ATHENS | Thursday 27 February 2003

Dear Mr. Secretary:

I am writing you to submit my resignation from the Foreign Service of the United States and from my position as Political Counselor in U.S. Embassy Athens, effective March 7. I do so with a heavy heart. The baggage of my upbringing included a felt obligation to give something back to my country. Service as a U.S. diplomat was a dream job. I was paid to understand foreign languages and cultures, to seek out diplomats, politicians, scholars and journalists, and to persuade them that U.S. interests and theirs fundamentally coincided. My faith in my country and its values was the most powerful weapon in my diplomatic arsenal.

It is inevitable that during twenty years with the State Department I would become more sophisticated and cynical about the narrow and selfish bureaucratic motives that sometimes shaped our policies. Human nature is what it is, and I was rewarded and promoted for understanding human nature. But until this Administration it had been possible to believe that by upholding the policies of my president I was also upholding the interests of the American people and the world. I believe it no longer.

The policies we are now asked to advance are incompatible not only with American values but also with American interests. Our fervent pursuit of war with Iraq is driving us to squander the international legitimacy that has been America’s most potent weapon of both offense and defense since the days of Woodrow Wilson. We have begun to dismantle the largest and most effective web of international relationships the world has ever known. Our current course will bring instability and danger, not security.

The sacrifice of global interests to domestic politics and to bureaucratic self-interest is nothing new, and it is certainly not a uniquely American problem. Still, we have not seen such systematic distortion of intelligence, such systematic manipulation of American opinion, since the war in Vietnam. The September 11 tragedy left us stronger than before, rallying around us a vast international coalition to cooperate for the first time in a systematic way against the threat of terrorism. But rather than take credit for those successes and build on them, this Administration has chosen to make terrorism a domestic political tool, enlisting a scattered and largely defeated Al Qaeda as its bureaucratic ally. We spread disproportionate terror and confusion in the public mind, arbitrarily linking the unrelated problems of terrorism and Iraq. The result, and perhaps the motive, is to justify a vast misallocation of shrinking public wealth to the military and to weaken the safeguards that protect American citizens from the heavy hand of government. September 11 did not do as much damage to the fabric of American society as we seem determined to so to ourselves. Is the Russia of the late Romanovs really our model, a selfish, superstitious empire thrashing toward self-destruction in the name of a doomed status quo?

We should ask ourselves why we have failed to persuade more of the world that a war with Iraq is necessary. We have over the past two years done too much to assert to our world partners that narrow and mercenary U.S. interests override the cherished values of our partners. Even where our aims were not in question, our consistency is at issue. The model of Afghanistan is little comfort to allies wondering on what basis we plan to rebuild the Middle East, and in whose image and interests. Have we indeed become blind, as Russia is blind in Chechnya, as Israel is blind in the Occupied Territories, to our own advice, that overwhelming military power is not the answer to terrorism? After the shambles of post-war Iraq joins the shambles in Grozny and Ramallah, it will be a brave foreigner who forms ranks with Micronesia to follow where we lead.

We have a coalition still, a good one. The loyalty of many of our friends is impressive, a tribute to American moral capital built up over a century. But our closest allies are persuaded less that war is justified than that it would be perilous to allow the U.S. to drift into complete solipsism. Loyalty should be reciprocal. Why does our President condone the swaggering and contemptuous approach to our friends and allies this Administration is fostering, including among its most senior officials. Has “oderint dum metuant” really become our motto?

I urge you to listen to America’s friends around the world. Even here in Greece, purported hotbed of European anti-Americanism, we have more and closer friends than the American newspaper reader can possibly imagine. Even when they complain about American arrogance, Greeks know that the world is a difficult and dangerous place, and they want a strong international system, with the U.S. and EU in close partnership. When our friends are afraid of us rather than for us, it is time to worry. And now they are afraid. Who will tell them convincingly that the United States is as it was, a beacon of liberty, security, and justice for the planet?

Mr. Secretary, I have enormous respect for your character and ability. You have preserved more international credibility for us than our policy deserves, and salvaged something positive from the excesses of an ideological and self-serving Administration. But your loyalty to the President goes too far. We are straining beyond its limits an international system we built with such toil and treasure, a web of laws, treaties, organizations, and shared values that sets limits on our foes far more effectively than it ever constrained America’s ability to defend its interests.

I am resigning because I have tried and failed to reconcile my conscience with my ability to represent the current U.S. Administration. I have confidence that our democratic process is ultimately self-correcting, and hope that in a small way I can contribute from outside to shaping policies that better serve the security and prosperity of the American people and the world we share.

John Brady Kiesling

Go to Original

U.S. Diplomat Resigns, Protesting 'Our Fervent Pursuit of War'

By Felicity Barringer

New York Times

Thursday 27 February 2003

UNITED NATIONS — A career diplomat who has served in United States embassies from Tel Aviv to Casablanca to Yerevan resigned this week in protest against the country's policies on Iraq.

The diplomat, John Brady Kiesling, the political counselor at the United States Embassy in Athens, said in his resignation letter, "Our fervent pursuit of war with Iraq is driving us to squander the international legitimacy that has been America's most potent weapon of both offense and defense since the days of Woodrow Wilson."

Mr. Kiesling, 45, who has been a diplomat for about 20 years, said in a telephone interview tonight that he faxed the letter to Secretary of State Colin L, Powell on Monday after informing Thomas Miller, the ambassador in Athens, of his decision.

He said he had acted alone, but "I've been comforted by the expressions of support I've gotten afterward" from colleagues.

"No one has any illusions that the policy will be changed," he said. "Too much has been invested in the war."

Louis Fintor, a State Department spokesman, said he had no information on Mr. Kiesling's decision and it was department policy not to comment on personnel matters.

In his letter, a copy of which was provided to The New York Times by a friend of Mr. Kiesling's, the diplomat wrote Mr. Powell: "We should ask ourselves why we have failed to persuade more of the world that a war with Iraq is necessary. We have over the past two years done too much to assert to our world partners that narrow and mercenary U.S. interests override the cherished values of our partners."

His letter continued: "Even where our aims were not in question, our consistency is at issue. The model of Afghanistan is little comfort to allies wondering on what basis we plan to rebuild the Middle East, and in whose image and interests."

It is rare but not unheard-of for a diplomat, immersed in the State Department's culture of public support for policy, regardless of private feelings, to resign with this kind of public blast. From 1992 to 1994, five State Department officials quit out of frustration with the Clinton administration's Balkans policy.

Asked if his views were widely shared among his diplomatic colleagues, Mr. Kiesling said: "No one of my colleagues is comfortable with our policy. Everyone is moving ahead with it as good and loyal. The State Department is loaded with people who want to play the team game — we have a very strong premium on loyalty."

Organized religion fares no better.

Shocking to see how many self-proclaimed devotees r neither Buddhist, Christian or Jew, i.e., NOT EVEN as in HAVE NOT YET ADVANCED TO THE LEVEL OF true Buddhists, Christians or Jews. And what to speak of vaisnavas.

Or at least their ineloquent spokesperson.

U can't miss him. R shark fish?

Y was biggest Al-qaeda meeting held in 1995... in Houston?

Foley's not what it used to be? What's really coming down the pike?

Bhagavatam says: if your son is neither devotee nor hero, u passed urine, not semen.

I stopped buying ice cream. definitely not in season. Even Miami's cool these days.

I did notice devotees have so much trouble keeping cows.

It just doesn't seem to work. Is there some cow protection info we are all missing here? About how to keep them after they stop producing milk?

If it's so difficult, is it any wonder why...?

Not that I'm advocating in any way. shape or form, but usually the natural, pious, religious way is also easiest.

Yes, anyone who knows Koran knows Almighty Allah wants his worshippers to avoid dead carcass, only Halal, and rotting flesh can never, ever be Halal. period.

"There r lives in the Balance" - there's a shadow on the faces.. Jackson Brown

PrabhupAd described again and again their mentality:

we have these weapons so we have to test them, we have to use them, they must be used.

To hell with our domestic economy.

To hell with all international economies.

Such people, engulfed by unlimited desires, remain blind 24/7 at every step.

Such people know not a word of Ramayan, Mahabharat, Torah, Buddha, Jesus, Koran, nothing.

Someone else above quoted "by any means necessary"

If u & your neighbors r constantly being raped & lynched, what would u do?

Yell out: "Hey! Here's my neck! Hang me next!?"

One Richie Havens song is worth more than all these sub-animal warmongers put together.

Beef can be honored if cow first dies naturally or is sacrificed by mantra, thus given new younger body visible to all = gomedha. Otherwise not.

C if u can tell which encourages, humours which:

1) www.lol.com/flash_0203/bomb_iraq.cfm

2) www.lol.com/flash_0203/bigbombs.cfm

In 2nd canto, Sukadev Goswami explains who can understand KC... and who canNOT.

O Theistic One, can u quote even one line wherein X preached violence? Have u ever even heard him speak one paragraph? If so, quote it right here & now. This u cannot do, of course.

Jst because our president-select, vice-president select, attorney general and cabinet secretaries do not NOW understand artha, bhakti, business, dharma, economics, history, kama, karma-phalam, mathematics, moksa, philosophy, politics, religion, science... does NOT mean they cannot in future.

that America is a demoniac civilization based on hi-tech self-deception.

Better Bush surrounds himself with clear thinking rsis, people who can see past, present & future, not blatant rascals legally blind at every step.

Kill their false egos, not their physical bodies.

In this Kaliyuga, we r already dead, condemned to extremely short lifespan.

Except for extreme self-defense cases, killing can only result in horrific reactions for all killers directly or indirectly involved.

That goes for all taxpayers too.

Genuine sadhus know how to kill false ego sans damaging real ego.

Government and militia must be guided by highly advanced brahmanas, not cow-killing, oil-drilling Raksasa-vaisyas.

=============

Streetstraw: good morning - Hare Krishna

seaquiverfour: so you are still trying to convert me to hinduism ?

seaquiverfour: do you know what jennah is ?

Streetstraw: no

seaquiverfour: oh thats a shame

seaquiverfour: I have been analising your iadas and those of many religions

Streetstraw: Many churchgoers claim the cause of the Virgin Mary's tears is recent outbreaks of violence in Bangladesh.

They point out that she has had a lot to be upset about in the last week alone.

On Monday, five people were gunned down in local election violence in the south-western district of Jhenida and, before that, there were a series of bomb explosions in the northern town of Dinajpur.

Scientists have already said that one possible explanation for the tears is the fact that the marble statue is kept in a glass case, which could lead to condensation appearing on the Virgin Mary's face.

...take the essence...SP letter to Krsnadasa 1972

Post Extras:

seaquiverfour: and have come up with a similarity that is very sad

seaquiverfour: In islam it is forbidden to make statues of people and wosrhip them and it is al;so tols that shatian is your biggest enemy who will deceive all he can this is one of those deceptions nothng more

Streetstraw: Mata Mary weeps?

02/19/03 03:51 AM Edit Reply

By Alastair Lawson

BBC correspondent in Dhaka

Thousands of people in the Bangladeshi port city of Chittagong are flocking to a Roman Catholic church where tears are reported to have been seen on a statue of the Virgin Mary.

The marble statue is kept in a glass case which scientists say could lead to condensation appearing on the Virgin Mary's face

Many of those visiting the church are Muslims, eager to see what some locals believe is a sign of the Virgin's dismay over the recent outbreak of violence in the country and elsewhere in the world.

Roman Catholic believers say it is the first time in Bangladesh that tears have been seen on a statue of the Virgin Mary.

seaquiverfour: I have been to the famious tear drop church in sicily where the staue there cries

seaquiverfour: the people there were very sad and lost many obese who could not control their food intack and wanted to believe in myths

seaquiverfour: intake sorry

seaquiverfour: So do you believe that you will one day go back to the state of perfection you should have but have forgotten through ignorance ?

Streetstraw: In a country which is overwhelmingly Muslim, it is unusual for a symbol of the Christian faith to attract much interest.

But so many people are gathering outside the Chittagong church that police have been deployed to ensure law and order is maintained.

'Inquisitive'

Muslims are queuing to see the statue even though the Koran warns believers against showing an interest in religious idols.

Roman Catholics in Chittagong say that most people are queuing up to see the statue because they are inquisitive.

Around 90% of Bangladesh's 130 million population is Muslim.

In Chittagong, the second-largest city in the country, there are only around 8,000 Christians in a city of over four million people.

Many churchgoers claim the cause of the Virgin Mary's tears is recen

seaquiverfour: Even the bible states not to make statues and Jesus peace be apon him never made them or kneeled to them either but christians have reverted to paganism

seaquiverfour: just as the hindu do

Streetstraw: Many churchgoers claim the cause of the Virgin Mary's tears is recent outbreaks of violence in Bangladesh. They point out that she has had a lot to be upset about in the last week alone.

On Monday, five people were gunned down in local election violence in the south-western district of Jhenida and, before that, there were a series of bomb explosions in the northern town of Dinajpur. Scientists have already said that one possible explanation for the tears is the fact that the marble statue is kept in a glass case, which could lead to condensation appearing on the Virgin Mary's face.

...take the essence...SP letter to Krsnadasa 1972

Post Extras:

Streetstraw

Member

Reged: 08/16/02

Posts: 167

Loc: Miami, Florida

So-called scientists really

seaquiverfour: and as the buhdist do buhda didnt bow down to statues either he choose nature as his way

S: Problem is u do not know how powerful Allah can be

S: u like to limit Allah

S: Allah can do this, but Allah canNOT do that

S: therefore your interpretation of God & mystic power is faulty

S: deficient

S: Allah can appear in any form He likes

S: Allah is not bound by your nonsensical boundaries

seaquiverfour: I do not limit Allah in any way you are mistaken . You are actually a hipocrit who i have been told not to even speak with goodbye I do not want to speak with you again please do not bother me any more you have nothing of value to offer me

S: u do not know Allah's unlimited Nature

S: Allah can appear in any statue He likes

S: Allah's power is everywhere, no?

seaquiverfour: please leave me alone ort I will block you again i have nothing to say to you go take to someone else

S: u cannot defend your limited conception, that is all

S: when u develop full faith in Allah's unlimited nature, write to me, otherwise not

seaquiverfour: I can defend myself very well actually it is you who are limited but think you are some angel not yet realised

S: good morning - Hare Krishna

seaquiverfour: so you are still trying to convert me to hinduism ?

seaquiverfour: do you know what jennah is ?

S: no

seaquiverfour: oh thats a shame

seaquiverfour: I have been analising your iadas and those of many religions

Streetstraw: Many churchgoers claim the cause of the Virgin Mary's tears is recent outbreaks of violence in Bangladesh.

They point out that she has had a lot to be upset about in the last week alone.

On Monday, five people were gunned down in local election violence in the south-western district of Jhenida and, before that, there were a series of bomb explosions in the northern town of Dinajpur.

Scientists have already said that one possible explanation for the tears is the fact that the marble statue is kept in a glass case, which could lead to condensation appearing on the Virgin Mary's face.

...take the essence...SP letter to Krsnadasa 1972

Post Extras:

================

seaquiverfour: and have come up with a similarity that is very sad

seaquiverfour: In islam it is forbidden to make statues of people and wosrhip them and it is al;so tols that shatian is your biggest enemy who will deceive all he can this is one of those deceptions nothng more

==============

Streetstraw: Mata Mary weeps?

02/19/03 03:51 AM Edit Reply

By Alastair Lawson

BBC correspondent in Dhaka

Thousands of people in the Bangladeshi port city of Chittagong are flocking to a Roman Catholic church where tears are reported to have been seen on a statue of the Virgin Mary.

The marble statue is kept in a glass case which scientists say could lead to condensation appearing on the Virgin Mary's face

Many of those visiting the church are Muslims, eager to see what some locals believe is a sign of the Virgin's dismay over the recent outbreak of violence in the country and elsewhere in the world.

Roman Catholic believers say it is the first time in Bangladesh that tears have been seen on a statue of the Virgin Mary.

seaquiverfour: I have been to the famious tear drop church in sicily where the staue there cries

seaquiverfour: the people there were very sad and lost many obese who could not control their food intack and wanted to believe in myths

seaquiverfour: intake sorry

seaquiverfour: So do you believe that you will one day go back to the state of perfection you should have but have forgotten through ignorance ?

S: In a country which is overwhelmingly Muslim, it is unusual for a symbol of the Christian faith to attract much interest.

But so many people are gathering outside the Chittagong church that police have been deployed to ensure law and order is maintained.

'Inquisitive'

Muslims are queuing to see the statue even though the Koran warns believers against showing an interest in religious idols.

Roman Catholics in Chittagong say that most people are queuing up to see the statue because they are inquisitive.

Around 90% of Bangladesh's 130 million population is Muslim.

In Chittagong, the second-largest city in the country, there are only around 8,000 Christians in a city of over four million people.

Many churchgoers claim the cause of the Virgin Mary's tears is recen

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seaquiverfour: Even the bible states not to make statues and Jesus peace be apon him never made them or kneeled to them either but christians have reverted to paganism

seaquiverfour: just as the hindu do

Streetstraw: Many churchgoers claim the cause of the Virgin Mary's tears is recent outbreaks of violence in Bangladesh. They point out that she has had a lot to be upset about in the last week alone.

On Monday, five people were gunned down in local election violence in the south-western district of Jhenida and, before that, there were a series of bomb explosions in the northern town of Dinajpur. Scientists have already said that one possible explanation for the tears is the fact that the marble statue is kept in a glass case, which could lead to condensation appearing on the Virgin Mary's face.

...take the essence...SP letter to Krsnadasa 1972

Post Extras:

Streetstraw

Member

Reged: 08/16/02

Posts: 167

Loc: Miami, Florida

So-called scientists really

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seaquiverfour: and as the buhdist do buhda didnt bow down to statues either he choose nature as his way

S: Problem is u do not know how powerful Allah can be

S: u like to limit Allah

Streetstraw: Allah can do this, but Allah canNOT do that

S: therefore your interpretation of God & mystic power is faulty:

S: deficient

S: Allah can appear in any form He likes

S: Allah is not bound by your nonsensical boundaries

seaquiverfour: I do not limit Allah in any way you are mistaken . You are actually a hipocrit who i have been told not to even speak with goodbye I do not want to speak with you again please do not bother me any more you have nothing of value to offer me

S: u do not know Allah's unlimited Nature

Streetstraw: Allah can appear in any statue He likes

S: Allah's power is everywhere, no?

seaquiverfour: please leave me alone ort I will block you again i have nothing to say to you go take to someone else

S: u cannot defend your limited conception, that is all

S: when u develop full faith in Allah's unlimited nature, write to me, otherwise not

seaquiverfour: I can defend myself very well actually it is you who are limited but think you are some angel not yet realised

oh thats a shame

seaquiverfour: I have been analising your iadas and those of many religions

Many churchgoers claim the cause of the Virgin Mary's tears is recent outbreaks of violence in Bangladesh.

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I sent entire article + show how their limited Allah = anta-Allah conception just won't suffice.

good morning - Hare Krishna

seaquiverfour: so you are still trying to convert me to hinduism ?

seaquiverfour: do you know what jennah is ?

no