Murali_Mohan_das
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Posts posted by Murali_Mohan_das
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other failures include the loss of properties, the loss of public trust, total failure of the primary educational system (gurukulas)...
I see people knocking the ISKCON gurukulas quite a bit. I cannot accept that the Gurukula education I received in ISKCON L.A., Bhaktivendanta Village and San Francisco was a "total failure" (though others on the forum may beg to differ).
Personally, the education prepared me to the point where, entering public school in 7th grade, I was reading at an 11th grade level. Due to the "tutorial" nature of the education, I was a bit behind on math (mid 5th grade level), but quickly was able to catch up. After a couple of weeks in the normal classes, I was placed into the "gifted" class.
My friend Bhakta Rupa (eldest son of Karandhar Prabhu) received a Gurukula education which was sufficiently competent to allow him to gain entry to the prestigious Harvard-Westlake Preparatory High School in L.A. (funded by Ramesvar Maharaj).
No doubt there are many more success stories (and certainly, some failures as well).
As for abuse, I feel I was very well-treated during my Gurukula years. Certainly, there was abuse in some places, but I never personally saw any behavior I'd characterize as abuse.
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even though the men in saffron often deride them as low-class sense enjoyers.
Well, I finished up my first reading of Sri Prapanna Jivanamritam over the weekend, and found these two verses particularly striking in this regard (though it's certainly a recurring theme in the book):
http://mandala.com.au/prapanna/ch-9.html
9.42prabala bhaktir ajitendriyan api visaya-bhogad-uddharati -
badhyamano 'pi mad-bhakto, visayair ajitendriyah
prayah pragalbhaya bhaktya, visayair nabhibhuyate
<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 106 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> tatraiva 11.14.18 </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Intense devotion delivers even persons of uncontrolled senses from worldly enjoyment -
"A person adopting the path of devotion may suffer the obstacle of his mind loitering somewhat in thoughts of mundanity, due to former habits of sensual dalliance. As he cultivates devotion, his service aptitude develops. And the more his boldness to serve increases, the more that materialistic devotee is gradually able to curb his attraction for the mundane. The only cause of failure for such aspirants is their lack of sincerity."
9.43-46
labdha-suddha-bhakti-bijasya nirvinnasyanubhuta-duhkhatmaka-
kama-svarupasyapi tat tyagasamarthya-garhana-silasya tatra niskapata-nistha-purvaka-yajita-bhakty-angasya bhaktasya sanair
bhagavan hrdayoditah san nikhilavidya tat karyani ca vidhvamsayanniravacchinna-nija-cinmaya-vilasa-dhamaivaviskaroti -
jata-sraddho mat-kathasu, nirvinnah sarva-karmasu
veda duhkhatmakan kaman, parityage 'py anisvarah
tato bhajeta mam pritah, sraddhalur drdha-niscayah
jusamanas ca tan kaman, duhkhodarkams ca garhayan
proktena bhakti-yogena, bhajato ma 'sakrn muneh
kama hrdaya nasyanti, sarve mayi hrdi sthite
bhidyate hrdaya-granthis, chidyante sarva-samsayah
ksiyante casya karmani, mayi drste 'khilatmani
<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 107 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> tatraiva 11.20.27-30 </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
For one who receives the seed of devotion, who is selfless and penitent, denouncing his inability to abandon mundane enjoyment despite realizing it to be the embodiment of suffering, and who sincerely gives himself incessantly to all the practices of devotion - in the heart of such a devotee, the Supreme Lord ascends like the rising sun to annihilate all ignorance with its reactions, revealing His divine personality in all its pristine glory -
"He who has imbibed heart's faith in the tidings of My name, nature, and pastimes; who has become indifferent to all kinds of fruitive work and its rewards; who has learnt that all forms of enjoyment of sensual passions ultimately transform into misery, yet he is unable to fully abandon such passions - such a faithful devotee, being determined that his shortcomings will be dispelled by the potency of devotion, gradually comes to abhor those evil passions that enslave him, knowing the havoc they wreak - and he serves Me with love: when his objective is pure and sincere, I give him My mercy.
"In this way, the introspective devotee unceasingly absorbs himself in all the practices of devotional service as enunciated by Me. And I, who am situated in the heart of My devotee, strike at the root of all the material urges that infect his heart, reducing them to oblivion.
"By bringing Me - the Soul of all souls - into his heart, no evil can remain there. Swiftly is the hard knot of mundane ego severed, all doubts are slashed, and all mundane action is exhausted for that earnestly aspiring devotee."
The real ascetics are working two jobs, raising their kids, distributing books to their friends and neighbors and co-workers and around the community, and donating to keep the local temple solvent.They are giving up their personal sense gratification, devoting their lives to the service of others. They neither seek nor receive prestige.
They don't have big travel budgets, or admirers who give them Rolexes and fancy silks, or exotic specially-prepared health-food diets. You probably don't even know their names. But THEY are the pure devotees, quietly holding Krishna Consciousness in the West together, even though the men in saffron often deride them as low-class sense enjoyers.
If you tried to approach one of them for diksa, they would probably say "no" -- not feeling themselves qualified, and not likely to win ecclesiastical approval from an organization that rewards a certain "in" club of old cronies. But they are gurus, and all who take their siksa are fortunate indeed.
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Oh yeah your right. I did forget reading about that. What's the number of posts someone needs...25 was it?
I think you're right about the number being 25, though, after looking around on the forum, I couldn't find any FAQ to give a definitive answer.
Getting back on topic (or, for me, getting on topic for the first time), it might be a stretch to say that Vedic/Gaudiya Vaishnava philosophy has no conception of "sin". It *is* true that the word is not used very frequently (though you'll find it used from time to time here on these forums).
Certainly the Vaishnava (GV) conception of sin is very different from the Judeo-Christian (JC) conception, wouldn't you say?
Perhaps shame and guilt are not inherent in the JC conception of sin, but the focus on repentance certainly does open the door for shame and guilt to enter.
With the concept of karma, there is not so much shame or guilt. Simply, an action will beget a reaction. Of course, the Lord is behind everything, but in the GV tradition, there isn't this image of God musing up the perfect punishment for a little boy who cheated on his mid-term.
Of course, when Westerners such as myself--who are knowingly or unknowingly steeped in the Judeo-Christian culture--try to adopt the GV path, often we bring remnants (or even icebergs) of our conditioning with us. We can end up muddying up for ourselves (or others) the sweet, clear waters of the Vaishnava teachings.
So, there are actions which are considered sinful by the Vaishnava/Vedic scriptures (killing a cow, for instance), but not so much focus on atonement. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atonement)
In other words, nobody is saying that Krishna is dying for our sins (at least I hope they are not), as beautiful as the concept of God (or His Son) doing so might be.
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Any ideas, where is it?
I always assumed it was somewhere near Palo Alto
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Maybe, when he said "half-baked", Vikram Prabhu meant something like Papa Murphy's "take and bake" pizza, where one takes the uncooked pizza home, puts it in their own oven and bakes it to perfection. Wouldn't that be a fair characterization of what Srila Prabhupada did? He gave us the raw materials in hopes that we would bake them to perfection with our sadhana and sadhu-sanga.
The terminology used by Vikram-ji may be offensive to some, but, certainly no one would contest if it was phrased like so: Srila Prabhupada presented the sweetest conception of Divinity to his Western disciples in a manner which might be comprehensible to them given their particular conditioning. He gave them everything they needed if not everything that exists.
So really it's not just me that your venom and hatred is aimed at.You also have the audacity to presume to know better than the siddha Maha-Bhagavat.
Like they say:" A fool goes undetected as long as he doesn't speak, but as soon as he speaks his ignorance is exposed".
Vikram babu has shown the darkness that haunts his own soul with his foolish criticism of an empowered acharya who is actually svarup-siddha.
A rotten grhamedhi like Vikram certainly has no position to be making such critical assessments of AN ACHARYA.
Such filthy talk as that is simply the babbling of an asura.
Half-baked version of Sanatan-Dharma?
As if India isn't the empire of pseudo-gurus, swamis and yogis?
Most Hindus in India are so confused and befuddled with the kaleidoscope of bogus avatars that they don't know Sanatan Dharma from a hole in the ground.
In India there is an avatar on every street corner begging for a rupee.
Trying to find a Hindu that knows Sanatan Dharma is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
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Thank you Prabhu, for taking my words as they were intended. I also beg you to do the same for me (to quote a Red Hot Chili Peppers song, "If you see me getting mighty, If you see me getting high, Knock me down, I'm not bigger than life"). No doubt, I am a far greater offender than most.
We are both young (in these bodies). I pray our elders forgive our occasional youthful petulance. I also hope they see that, despite our relative lack of experience, we may, at times, have valuable contributions to make to the discussions here (call it wisdom born of naivete, if you will).
To quote another song (CSNY):
And you, of tender years,Can't know the fears that your elders grew by,
And so please help them with your youth,
They seek the truth before they can die.
Teach your parents well,
Their children's hell will slowly go by,
And feed them on your dreams
The one they picked, the one you'll know by.
Don't you ever ask them why, if they told you, you would cry,
So just look at them and sigh and know they love you.
Truly, you exhibit great learning and comprehension of what you have learned. I'm happy you have chosen to stick around and join the forum!
I wish you all health, happiness, and facility on your spiritual journey!
Nitai Gauranga!!
Guruvani being a hopeless case who draws practically all he knows about Sanatana Dharma from the half-baked version of Vaisnavism that ISKCON's founder presented to the Western world, I shall not waste one single more word trying to get him to shed some of his extreme bigotry.I am rather more interested in what Murali_Mohan_das Prabhu wrote. Of course, his criticism of me is valid and welcome. Thank you for reminding me of my fallen position, Prabhu. I pray that sincere persons like yourself keep doing that so that I always remain on my guard and never let false pride and its associated negative qualities fill my head. What I wrote to Guest 3 on the other thread was a disgrace, and I am certainly not proud of the words I used then. If you scroll down to the last post of the thread in question, you will see that I repented for being such a boor (to use your own words), and thanked HariShibdas Prabhu profusely for imparting a few very valuable instructions to me. To Guest 3's credit, he did write a brief message also apologising for letting things get out of hand. However, I notice that his message has been deleted for whatever reason. This is plainly disingenuous of the part of the moderators. At the very least, it shows that there are many pseudo-devotees posing as Vaisnavas in contemporary society.
Radhe Radhe
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Note to guest108. If you just copy and paste the url into the reply box it will automaticaly br turned into a direct link to the site you are referring to.
Example. Here is a link to the index page of the site you referrenced.
This is not true for guests--or for new members, for that matter. Since you joined five years ago, perhaps you forgot (or, perhaps the forum had a different policy then).
I joined this forum recently and was not able to insert URLs until I had posted a certain number of posts. I'll look for the exact policy.
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Guruvaniji,
Do you agree with me that your behaviour falls short of what Mahaprabhu demanded of practitioners in His line? You certainly cannot claim to be evincing tolerance and humility.
Vikram Prabhu. I like what you have to say very much. Also, you are not immune (nor am I) to "superior-itis".
Perhaps there is more than one Vikram Ramsundar, but this appears to be you apologizing for picking a fistfight with another visitor to these forums:
Guest 3, just to get back to one of your many, idiotic remarks full of sarcasm, which do demonstrate how perfected a soul you are for sure - regarding getting pissed off, I reserve that right to myself, and at the tender age of 33, I consider that to be quite normal.Here you are, apparently, speaking not so kindly (from the same page):
This is an open forum in which everybody can take part. Who cares to whom you were replying? And trust me, buddy, you don't wanna confront me on a battlefield, because if you were to do so, you wouldn't have your feet on which to stand anymore. By the way, your words sound like those of a eunuch to me. At least I have the guts to write my own name prior to posting, and not hide behind a bland, unimaginative username like Guest 3!Now, my body is only a year older than yours, but I pray I never use my age as an excuse for acting like a boor (I have plenty of other excuses
).Let us both refrain from deluding ourselves into believing that our (meager) intelligence and knowledge somewhow grant us superiority over those with less of those qualities (or simply a different type of intelligence or knowledge).
Keep on speaking truth, Prabhu, in as (genuinely) humble manner as possible.
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I perfectly agree with the tenor and spirit of the following:
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I've said before on this forum, that my rational mind cannot accept (despite what is said in scripture) that a Guru is absolutely required to attain salvation
:smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: and that, by sincerity alone, a person stranded on a desert isle could not attain the sweetest destination. Krsna Prabhu. Thanks for your support, but I'm not sure if you counted all the negatives in that statement of mine. I may not have been saying exactly what you thought I said
Hoping to attain your service,
--MMd
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Fascinating, Prabhu!! Thanks for taking the time to satisfy my curiosity!
My family's claim to music fame is a late Great-Uncle Sol who co-wrote "I Don't Want to Set the World on Fire", which I'm too young to remember (and it's not in Dad's record collection). I wouldn't know the song if not for the relative who plays it at each family gathering
I don't know why I've got music on the brain for the last few days...a God-Cousin of mine described his final LSD trip to me once. He had attended a concert in Berkeley, and, afterwards found that everything he thought or heard was reminding him of classic rock songs!!
This freaked him out, so he quite dropping acid and soon afterwards joined up with the devotees.
My aunt Edda went to NZ and married, hence Tim and Neil.No I never met them but when I was a little kid we used to hear about them from time to time.
There was trouble in the family because they were all ethnic Germans - my Grandmother was born in Fiji, after the British took over the German colony of Samoa and deported the Germans. Most of the family ended up in Sydney.
In homes of my relatives I used to see pictures of the islands like this picture I posted.
New Zealand used to look like that too, once upon a time.
Tim and Neil are supposed to be really nice guys, but they move in a different circle from me. Music, bands, movie star girl friends, that sort of life. I never bothered trying to contact them, but I really do like some of their songs.
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Looks like most of the major points are being covered here. I like the bit about personal service to Gurudev. That's one thing that's not inherently present in "submissive aural [or visual] reception".
Another consideration that might not occur to those on this forum (since all are literate (or at least semi-literate, considering some of the spelling and grammar seen here
))--many aspiring Bhaktas have little inclination for reading.Even for me, after sitting in front of a computer monitor all day, the last thing I want to do when I get home is crack open a book (but, lately, the sweet call of Prapanna Jivanamritam has overwhelmed me).
For those not inclined to read, there is practical seva, and of practical sevas, what could be sweeter than to directly serve Gurudev?
In Gurudev Srila Govinda Maharaja's sanga, there are a number of devotees who have come from the "Rainbow Family" ( http://www.welcomehome.org/ ) due to the tireless efforts of Nitya Hari Prabhu's annual Simply Wonderful kitchen at the US National Rainbow Gathering.
These persons are happily engaged in making garlands, preparing bhoga for offering to the deities, distributing the mercy of Gurudev, etc.
In repsonse to Theist's (consciously not appending anything to your handle per your request) challenge regarding the CC quotes:
The question is: just what is Mahaprabhu promising? Is he promising that, by chanting the names of the Lord without ever surrendering to the feet of Gurudev, we will be liberated?
I believe the generally accepted reading is that: one can get benefit from chanting the Holy Names regardless of the circumstances or manner of the chanting ("sex-o-rama" as a case in point). How much benefit, though?
The analogy of shooting blanks is often used in relation to japa. When we have not been given the holy name by Guru, we are shooting blanks. There is some effect, to be sure, but it is mostly sound and smoke. There is no projectile fired (though you wouldn't want to put a gun loaded with blanks right up to your head and pull the trigger).
I've said before on this forum, that my rational mind cannot accept (despite what is said in scripture) that a Guru is absolutely required to attain salvation and that, by sincerity alone, a person stranded on a desert isle could not attain the sweetest destination.
However, a good friend would not send one into the Sahara with a compass and a map. A good friend would recommend a qualified guide.
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Your cousin really wrote this song, Murali-ji? You've got one talented family!
It's such a smooth song--I must have heard it countless times, but never caught the lyrics (except for the chorus). It's actually quite incisive.
So, no doubt Neil has heard of Sri Krishna?
This reminds me of a song my cousin Neil wroteNow I'm towing my car, there's a hole in the roof
My possessions are causing me suspicion but there's no proof
In the paper today tales of war and of waste
But you turn right over to the T.V. page
Now I'm walking again to the beat of a drum
And I'm counting the steps to the door of your heart
Only shadows ahead barely clearing the roof
Get to know the feeling of liberation and relief
Hey now, hey now
Don't dream it's over
Hey now, hey now
When the world comes in
They come, they come
To build a wall between us
Don't ever let them win
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Well I'm not perfect and you know a lot more than me. So clarification may be needed here.
Puri. Guest of Melodies meant to say "Jagannath Puri", methinks. He's too intoxicated by Krishna Prem--he is seeing Puri everywhere.
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...and now is probably a good time for me to shut my big mouth and sit in a corner for a while.
Allow me to pass on this book recommendation from my senior Godbrother for those with an interest in learning more about how crooked the markets are.
It's an old book, but the markets are the same. If anything, it's harder to make an "honest living" trading because all the major firms hire Computer Science PhD's to write trading software for them.
The book is called:
"Reminiscences of a Stock Operator" by Edwin Lef́aevre
You can read a few pages of it on Google Books:
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nice.....
then I offer you all respect and fatherly love as a second generation of the Krishna consciousness movement.
Thank you for your blessing, Uncle!!
I ran into Raghavendu at the New Ramanreti temple a few years ago here and it was really sweet to talk to him.He clued me in on some of the west coast goings on.
I have to say that I really enjoyed talking to him and I was very sad to have to part company that afternoon.
I know what you are talking about now in regards to someone getting his head blown off with a shotgun.
What threw me was that I always thought Raghavendu killed that idiot with a pistol and not a shotgun.
It's good he only had to do a few years in prison for that and got out really quick on a homicide conviction.
It's obvious you hold Raghavendu Prabhu in high regard. Surely you see how sincere and good-hearted he is. Since you mention this bit of history, perhaps more of the story should be told here (another cautionary tale)...
I don't recall mentioning anything about anybody and a shotgun.
This is the story to the best of my recollection:
Raghavendu and his first wife were living in the Miami ISKCON temple in the mid to late 70's as new, young devotees. Somehow, the (married, with a daughter) temple president got involved romantically with Raghavendu Prabhu's wife.
In an effort to remedy the situation, Raghavendu moved with his family to L.A. The Miami temple president headed west and ended up living with Raghavendu's wife a couple hour's drive from L.A.
Raghavendu Prabhu got much advice from other relatively new bhaktas as to what the "Vedic" thing to do in the situation would be. The advice involved violence. Somebody left a gun (it *was* a pistol) on a dresser for Raghavendu to find.
When R. went to confront his wife and her lover (with the gun for protection), the lover shot at R. through the front door. R. shot back and the man was killed.
Considering that it was a "crime of passion" Raghavendu Prabhu served 3 years for manslaughter (not "murder").
I have, on a number of occasions, seen Raghavendu Prabhu happily conversing with the widow and daughter of the man whom he delivered from his body (it was the widow's brother that furnished the gun). They seem to bear him no ill-will.
Raghavendu Prabhu and my mother have been married since 1980'ish and they have two grown children together. When the children were young, we wished to shield them from this unsavory tale, but, as adults they know, so, while not a palatable topic of conversation, it's not a secret.
My stepfather is called "Grandpa" by my kids and I love him as if he were my own birth father. He has shown me so much kindness over the years and has shared so much enlivening katha.
All glories to that illustrious servant of the Vaishnavas, Sripad Raghavendu Prabhu!!!
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I gleefully celebrate my anarthas. For, when I stumble and fall over them, some kind Vaishnava like yourself always seems to come along to lift me back up onto my feet.
I ("I am that I am not"--not "I am that I am") am dark, bitter and angry. I have no fear of the "dark place" (mainframe (tech) reference).
No offense was intended to the Vaishnavas, though. My attack was on a behavior, not a person. The person I name remains my master and free to caress or abuse me as he likes. Of course, if offense was taken, I am certainly to blame.
Hari!!!!
Murali_Mohan_das,You are dark mate. You have a lot of inner enermies (ant shatrus) you need to deal with, Irsha (envy) and Maan (pride) being just two of them.
No-one is faultless except for Sri Krsna. Insulting the devotees of Sri Krsna is like insulting the saints (santos) of Sri Krsna and Sri Krsna does not forgive for this.
Before you speak/write, think of if Sri Krsna is going to like what you have to say/write and then speak/write.
Jay Sri Hari
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lighten up guys
Did you hear the one about the two brahmacharis walking in the forest...
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In my view, day-trading is all smoke and no fire.
TRANSLATIONEvery endeavor is covered by some fault, just as fire is covered by smoke. Therefore one should not give up the work born of his nature, O son of Kunti, even if such work is full of fault.
PURPORT
In conditioned life, all work is contaminated by the material modes of nature. Even if one is a brahmana, he has to perform sacrifices in which animal killing is necessary. Similarly, a kshatriya, however pious he may be, has to fight enemies. He cannot avoid it. Similarly, a merchant, however pious he may be, must sometimes hide his profit to stay in business, or he may sometimes have to do business on the black market. These things are necessary; one cannot avoid them. Similarly, even though a man is a sudra serving a bad master, he has to carry out the order of the master, even though it should not be done. Despite these flaws, one should continue to carry out his prescribed duties, for they are born out of his own nature.
A very nice example is given herein. Although fire is pure, still there is smoke. Yet smoke does not make the fire impure. Even though there is smoke in the fire, fire is still considered to be the purest of all elements. If one prefers to give up the work of a kshatriya and take up the occupation of a brahmana, he is not assured that in the occupation of a brahmana there are no unpleasant duties. One may then conclude that in the material world no one can be completely free from the contamination of material nature. This example of fire and smoke is very appropriate in this connection. When in wintertime one takes a stone from the fire, sometimes smoke disturbs the eyes and other parts of the body, but still one must make use of the fire despite disturbing conditions. Similarly, one should not give up his natural occupation because there are some disturbing elements. Rather, one should be determined to serve the Supreme Lord by his occupational duty in Krishna consciousness. That is the perfectional point. When a particular type of occupation is performed for the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord, all the defects in that particular occupation are purified. When the results of work are purified, when connected with devotional service, one becomes perfect in seeing the self within, and that is self-realization.
Bg 18.48
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I serious could not care less about how you spend your time. I just wanted to perhaps awaken you to the fact that your work may not be absolutely pure yourself. Obviously a wasted effort.
Thanks for the efforts. I am often deluded. Also, I am a firm believer in declaring our faults for all to see and learn from. This approach has served me well at work as well--when I make a mistake, rather than playing CYA (cover your a$$), I share it with all in hopes they will not make the same mistake.
I never advocated it for anyone vaisnavas or otherwise. I just mentioned it in passing in one post and it seemed to set you off. It is perfectly clear why. I should have known better then to say anything about my low class life on a forum like this and open myself to being sucked in to the great Hare Krsna soap opera.Ah, so the Ford recommendation was part of your humor (like the lottery ticket mention). In my agitation, I must have missed that.
I apologize again for addressing you by name to start this forum. As I said before, it's a sign of my envy. You can accept my apologies or reject them as false. May I continue (or start to as the case might be) to feel remorse.
How much? None of your business again. But here we come to it. You are blaming me for showing a net whereas you father lost "your" $140,000 causing you to have to take out a student loan and pay it back. So you on some very near surface level are angry for what you see as my taking your 140,000.None of my business. Just as it is none of my business (or anybody else's) how much my father lost (or how he got the money to lose in the first place--which I'd happily volunteer). But, if someone can benefit from the tale of his woe, why should I not shout it from atop the mountain?
My college career was finished five or more years before my Dad ever started day-trading. I never expected him to pay off the loans. I'd have to be rather dense to not make the connection in my mind, though, that the amount he lost is ten times what I owe.
Gain comes from Krsna. Loss comes from Krsna. Roll with it.I'm doing my best, Merciful Prabhu. I can do better.
No I have no interest. You apparently still think your governmental bueracratic work is not covered by any fault but Krsna says differently in the Gita where he tells us EVERY endeavor is covered by some kind of fault. And for sure wherever there is a fault a fault finder is sure to follow.You may recall my claim that Maya Devi is deluding me into believing my work is honorable. I know first hand how much waste and cheating happens in the government sector.
The bottom line is: I can do this work and sleep well at night. If you can day-trade and sleep well, bless you!!
I certainly could not sleep well at night knowing I had an opportunity to warn others about the risks of speculative investment and failed to take that opportunity.
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then maybe you remember that I was Narada Muni in the play that time?
You probably ate some of my cooking then....?
that means I am somethings like a god to you?
then who's brat are you?
Sadly, I can't remember that play.
No doubt, I had the great fortune of attempting to honor the remnants of the foodstuffs you had prepared for the Lord.
You *are* something like a god to me Dear Uncle (if an irreverent and sometimes vengeful god).
I'm Rasangi Devi Dasi's brat. Raghavendu Prabhu is my step-father. Dharmadhyaksa Prabhu is my birth father.
wow..... I loved that San Jose temple.It's damn shame I had to bloop because Sudhira Maharaja kept stepping on my toes as head cook and kitchen manager.
No doubt, we are all saddened. I see Sripad Bhakti Sudhir Goswami Maharaj as a god much as I see you as a god. His splendor is brilliant and undeniable, and I must retreat to a safe distance before I can view it through slitted eyes.
Not only was I the head cook who set up that kitchen there, but I also was the first pujari to establish a regular program of deity worship and keep it up till I convinced my old friend Ramai to come and take over the deity worship so I could focus on the kitchen that was getting more and more demanding all the time.Well, Ramai Prabhu is still one of the pillars of our community, lovingly executing all of the arcana (with the occasional break provided by young Nilamani Prabhu (son of Srutasrava Prabhu)). We pray for his safe passage up and down Rodeo Gulch Road each afternoon while he goes for a bike ride during Their Lordships' naptimes.
Knowing that you brought dear Ramai to this community places me eternally in your debt. I hope I have the chance to embrace your feet before leaving this body!
I am sure you don't remember me, Kshamabuddhi, the head cook and head pujari for the first two years there?did you ever try any of my special Hare Krishna Pizza?
With my sieve-like memory, I'm ashamed to say I don't remember you, Prabhu, but others have praised you to me.
Some Hare Krishna Pizza sounds really good right now!! Can you Express Mail some? Just be sure to use soy cheese so we don't offend Theist Prabhu.
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Santu Cruz?
Hey...... I was in Santa Cruz when you were just a sparkle in your Dad's eye.
Well, I was there in the early eighties before the earthquake destroyed downtown and changed Santa Cruz forever.
Not quite. You once mentioned being at the 13th Street San Jose Temple in 1982. I would have been the snot-nosed 10-year old running around in the back-yard during the class.
What do you mean? I'm not wearing any underwear at allDon't get your panties all in a bunch now!But, now my son and I operate a computer repair and Network Administration business out of my home in beautiful North Florida.My son could dance circles around you as far as IT is concerned and he is self taught........ (I guess he gets his genius from his dad?)
That sounds divine. I hope you put Earthlink out of business
I sure *hope* your son can dance circles around me. I'm only "special" by government standards.
When you grow up and wise-up you maybe you will realize that California is for losers and move to sunny Florida where the ocean currents are warm and the Carribean is just a few hours away....
You know, my step-dad keeps telling me the exact same thing. Chances are I'll never own a home here in Santa Cruz (unless it's a code-violating Yurt on an empty piece of already harvested timber-land in Lompico).
oooops................. maybe I am talking too much?
Call me crazy, but I can't get enough of your rich, dusky words.
You Hare Krishnas are crazy................
Aw, now you're shamelessly flattering me. I'm such a sucker.
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Bad leaders are more of an issue than bad congregationals.
Bad leaders are the most serious issue facing the movement.
http://www.mandala.com.au/prapanna/ch-4.html
4.5vyavaharika-gurvadayo 'pi pratikulam ced varjjaniya eva -
gurur na sa syat svajano na sa syat
pita na sa syaj janani na sa syat
daivam na tat syan na patis ca sa syan
na mocayed yah samupeta-mrtyam
<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 07 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> Sri Rsabhasya </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
When the traditional guru and guardians are found to be unfavorable, they too must surely be abandoned -
"One who cannot save other souls from the world of impending death - that is, one who cannot teach the path of devotion - he cannot be a teacher, although he may be called 'guru'; he cannot be a relative - he is not worthy of the designation; he cannot be a father - he is not qualified to beget a son; she cannot be a mother - she should not bear a child; he cannot be a god - the demigods who cannot deliver others from material bondage are not entitled to accept worship from human society; and he cannot be a husband - his hand is not fit to accept in marriage."
<!-- Table 08 Row 01 --> <table width="95%"><tbody><tr><td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> Sri Rsabhadeva</td></tr></tbody></table>
But, *also*!!!
4.14cit-tattve jada-buddhir jadadhina-buddhir va aparadhatvena parivarjjaniya -
arcye visnau sila-dhir gurusu nara-matir vaisnave jati-buddhir
visnor va vaisnavanam kali-mala-mathane pada-tirthe 'mbu-buddhih
sri-visnor-namni-mantre sakala-kalusa-he sabda-samanya-buddhir
visnau sarvesvarese tad-itara-sama-dhir yasya va naraki sah
<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 32 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> Sri Vyasapadanam </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
The offensive mentality of considering worshippable, conscious divine forms to be mundane or subordinate to mundanity must be totally abandoned -
"Anyone who considers the worshippable Deity to be stone; who considers the Vaisnava Guru to be a mortal man; who considers a Vaisnava to be limited by the confines of caste, lineage, or creed; who considers the holy foot-wash of Lord Visnu or a Vaisnava to be ordinary water; who considers the holy name and mantra of Lord Visnu, which vanquish all sins, to be common sound vibration; and who considers the God of gods, Lord Visnu, to be merely on the level of the demigods - such a person is a diabolical devil."
<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 33 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> Sri Vyasadeva </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
4.15
tapah prabhrtinam pratikulyam -
rahuganaitat tapasa na yati
na cejyaya nirvapanad grhad va
na cchandasa naiva jalagni-suryair
vine mahat-pada-rajo 'bhisekam
<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 34 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> Sri Jadabharatasya </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
The adversity of all attempts based on austerity, etc. -
"O Rahugana, without one's head being adorned with the dust of the holy feet of a pure devotee, one can never attain devotion for the Supreme Lord by austerity, by Vedic worship and religiosity, by following the vow of monkhood, by following the religious duties of married life, by study and recitation of the Vedas, or by worshipping water, fire, or sun."
<!-- Table 35 Row 01 --> <table width="95%"><tbody><tr><td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> Sri Jadabharata</td></tr></tbody></table>
But, HERE IS THE PUNCHLINE:
4.25aikantika-bhaktasya ksayavasista-dosa-darsanagraho varjjaniyah -
drstaih svabhava-janitair vapusas ca dosair
na prakrtatvam iha bhakta-janasya pasyet
gangambhasam na khalu bud-buda-phena-pankair
brahma-dravatvam apagacchah nira-dharmaih
<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 65 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> Sri Rupapadanam </td> </tr> <!-- Table 65 Row 02 --> <tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> Sri Rupa Goswami </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
The tendency to find the dying remnants of personal defects in an exclusive devotee must be abandoned -
svabhava janita ara vapu-dose ksane, anadara nahi kara suddha bhakta-jane
pankadi jaliya dose kabhu ganga-jale, cinmayatva lopa nahe sarva-sastre bale
aprakrta bhakta-jana papa nahi kare, avasista papa yaya kichu-dina pare
<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 66 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> (Bengali verse by Sri Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura) </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
"For defects in his nature, or defects in his body,
<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 67 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> one should never disrespect Lord Krsna's pure devotee. </td> </tr> </tbody></table> If mud, foam, and bubbles appear in Ganges water,
<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 68 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> it never loses divinity - so says the Scripture. </td> </tr> </tbody></table> The devotee of divinity - he does never sin,
<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 69 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> and if a remnant does remain, soon that too is gone." </td> </tr> <!-- Table 69 Row 02 --> <tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> (Bengali verse translation) </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
4.26
para-dosanusilanam varjjaniyam -
para-svabhava-karmani, yah prasamsati nindati
sa asu bhrasyate svarthad, asatyabhinivesatah
<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 70 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> Sri Sri Bhagavatah </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
The practice of finding faults in others must be abandoned -
"To pointlessly judge others is a defect, and therefore such a practice must be abandoned. O Uddhava, you should neither praise nor abuse the nature and actions of others, because you will become preoccupied with falsehood and your best self-interest will be lost."
<!-- Table 71 Row 01 --> <table width="95%"><tbody><tr><td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> - the Supreme Personality of Godhead</td></tr></tbody></table>
I plead guilty to praising and abusing the nature and actions of others, and, sure enough, I'm preoccupied with falsehood...
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Now are you reading this on the taxpayers time you naughty boy. Get back to work.
You may not like how I spend my time, Theist Prabhu, but none of my supervisors have had any issue with my job performance.
If you really believe that day-trading is a good way for Vaishnavas to make a living, why not reveal just how much you've made from day-trading since your big windfall in 1999 (the height of the first tech bubble)?
For that matter, why not reveal just how much you made at that time (on the backs of other less-fortunate (or "accute" if we're being generous) investors)? For 8 years now, you have been living on the fruit of others' misery, isn't it?
Is there any other personal information of mine which I may furnish to you for the purpose of reprisals?
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Sorry, Guruvani Prabhu, but I won't grant you your Social Darwinism. I ranted about that on a recent thread of Suchandra-ji's.
"Survival of the fittest" is an utterly materialistic bastard child of Darwin's scientific theory. It ignores the all-too-natural (and mundane for that matter) qualities of cooperation, compassion, attraction, friendship, etc.
By your logic, if I get fired for posting on Audarya all day, I can just go down to the Safeway and get a job as a butcher, no?
Speaking of cooperation. If more aspiring Vaishnavas like ourselves could see past our petty differences and cooperate instead of engaging in a struggle with one another for survival, wouldn't we thrive?
Here in Santa Cruz, the disciples of Baba Hari Das own a number of well-established legitimate businesses.
I understand that the Internet Service Provider (ISP) Earthlink is owned by Scientologists (wouldn't it be safe to assume that the Scientologists applying for jobs there might get some special consideration?).
I think the "idealism" of not engaging in any speculative enterprise is fine and dandy if you have a viable communal economy founded on spiritual culture.Unfortunatly, many "devotees" have found themselves out on the street and struggling in the secular world to make a buck and support themselves and their families they have created.
At that point it's "every man for himself" and "survival of the fittest", much like the law of the animal kingdom.
The idealistic Vaishnava culture is not a luxury than the majority of "devotees" in the western world can afford.
Actually, the majority of "devotees" live outside the sect in the secular world.
They have a right to survive and prosper by any means possible.
It's the law of the jungle!!
Maybe within an institution that is founded on idealism there is some need to stick to the "principles", but when the sect fails the majority and they end up on the streets of the world trying to survive, then why should they try to play by the rules that nobody else recognizes?
Without a proper sanctuary to shelter "devotees" and give them facility to live by the ideals they cherish, all we have is wishful thinking and make-believe.
That is why the failure of ISKCON is such a horrendous and terrible blow to the international society of devotees.
With the failure of ISKCON thousands of sincere devotees ended up on the streets of the world fending for themselves and they have a right to survive by any means possible.
In modern society if you don't have retirement, health coverage and real estate you have to live in poverty and scarcity in your old age.
My dream is to develop a retirement community for devotees here in Florida where we can come together and support each other in our golden years and help each other die with some semblance of Krishna consciousness.
I think a devotee reitrement community with absolutely NO GBC or "guru" interference is vital for the aging devotees in the United States.
We need to get past these juvenile tendencies and learn how to live together peacefully without some "guru" or GBC creating a disturbance.
Until then........... survival of the fittest is the rule.
GBC Never Authorized to Terminate Ritvik System
in Spiritual Discussions
Posted
So wonderful, Mahaksa Prabhu!!
I feel very fallen and unqualified, and yet find myself blessed in this life beyond my wildest expectations!!
For example. Over the Memorial Day weekend, I went down to L.A. to help my Dad move out of his current apartment. Keep in mind that my father is very attached to his appartment and is not at all keen on giving it up.
Memorial Day weekend also happens to be when New Dwaraka holds its annual Prabhupada Festival.
By Guru's grace, I was able to rise and get to the temple by 7 or so on Saturday and Sunday morning. I certainly needed some spiritual nourishment as my father has been a fountain of negativity of late.
On Sunday, after Hari Sauri Prabhu's class, I was speaking with a friend. He asked after my father, and I explained the situation. Before I even thought to mention such a possibility, my friend insisted that he would like to sublet the apartment from my Dad.
See!!!?!?! I went to Krishna for some spiritual nourishment, and He solves a big material problem for me (how can I see it any other way???).
How does the saying go: solve your million dollar problem and all your $64 dollar problems go away (or something like that).