Murali_Mohan_das

So wonderful, Mahaksa Prabhu!! I feel very fallen and unqualified, and yet find myself blessed in this life beyond my wildest expectations!! For example. Over the Memorial Day weekend, I went down to L.A. to help my Dad move out of his current apartment. Keep in mind that my father is very attached to his appartment and is not at all keen on giving it up. Memorial Day weekend also happens to be when New Dwaraka holds its annual Prabhupada Festival. By Guru's grace, I was able to rise and get to the temple by 7 or so on Saturday and Sunday morning. I certainly needed some spiritual nourishment as my father has been a fountain of negativity of late. On Sunday, after Hari Sauri Prabhu's class, I was speaking with a friend. He asked after my father, and I explained the situation. Before I even thought to mention such a possibility, my friend insisted that he would like to sublet the apartment from my Dad. See!!!?!?! I went to Krishna for some spiritual nourishment, and He solves a big material problem for me (how can I see it any other way???). How does the saying go: solve your million dollar problem and all your $64 dollar problems go away (or something like that).

I see people knocking the ISKCON gurukulas quite a bit. I cannot accept that the Gurukula education I received in ISKCON L.A., Bhaktivendanta Village and San Francisco was a "total failure" (though others on the forum may beg to differ). Personally, the education prepared me to the point where, entering public school in 7th grade, I was reading at an 11th grade level. Due to the "tutorial" nature of the education, I was a bit behind on math (mid 5th grade level), but quickly was able to catch up. After a couple of weeks in the normal classes, I was placed into the "gifted" class. My friend Bhakta Rupa (eldest son of Karandhar Prabhu) received a Gurukula education which was sufficiently competent to allow him to gain entry to the prestigious Harvard-Westlake Preparatory High School in L.A. (funded by Ramesvar Maharaj). No doubt there are many more success stories (and certainly, some failures as well). As for abuse, I feel I was very well-treated during my Gurukula years. Certainly, there was abuse in some places, but I never personally saw any behavior I'd characterize as abuse.

Well, I finished up my first reading of Sri Prapanna Jivanamritam over the weekend, and found these two verses particularly striking in this regard (though it's certainly a recurring theme in the book): http://mandala.com.au/prapanna/ch-9.html

I think you're right about the number being 25, though, after looking around on the forum, I couldn't find any FAQ to give a definitive answer. Getting back on topic (or, for me, getting on topic for the first time), it might be a stretch to say that Vedic/Gaudiya Vaishnava philosophy has no conception of "sin". It *is* true that the word is not used very frequently (though you'll find it used from time to time here on these forums). Certainly the Vaishnava (GV) conception of sin is very different from the Judeo-Christian (JC) conception, wouldn't you say? Perhaps shame and guilt are not inherent in the JC conception of sin, but the focus on repentance certainly does open the door for shame and guilt to enter. With the concept of karma, there is not so much shame or guilt. Simply, an action will beget a reaction. Of course, the Lord is behind everything, but in the GV tradition, there isn't this image of God musing up the perfect punishment for a little boy who cheated on his mid-term. Of course, when Westerners such as myself--who are knowingly or unknowingly steeped in the Judeo-Christian culture--try to adopt the GV path, often we bring remnants (or even icebergs) of our conditioning with us. We can end up muddying up for ourselves (or others) the sweet, clear waters of the Vaishnava teachings. So, there are actions which are considered sinful by the Vaishnava/Vedic scriptures (killing a cow, for instance), but not so much focus on atonement. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atonement) In other words, nobody is saying that Krishna is dying for our sins (at least I hope they are not), as beautiful as the concept of God (or His Son) doing so might be.

I always assumed it was somewhere near Palo Alto

Maybe, when he said "half-baked", Vikram Prabhu meant something like Papa Murphy's "take and bake" pizza, where one takes the uncooked pizza home, puts it in their own oven and bakes it to perfection. Wouldn't that be a fair characterization of what Srila Prabhupada did? He gave us the raw materials in hopes that we would bake them to perfection with our sadhana and sadhu-sanga. The terminology used by Vikram-ji may be offensive to some, but, certainly no one would contest if it was phrased like so: Srila Prabhupada presented the sweetest conception of Divinity to his Western disciples in a manner which might be comprehensible to them given their particular conditioning. He gave them everything they needed if not everything that exists.

Thank you Prabhu, for taking my words as they were intended. I also beg you to do the same for me (to quote a Red Hot Chili Peppers song, "If you see me getting mighty, If you see me getting high, Knock me down, I'm not bigger than life"). No doubt, I am a far greater offender than most. We are both young (in these bodies). I pray our elders forgive our occasional youthful petulance. I also hope they see that, despite our relative lack of experience, we may, at times, have valuable contributions to make to the discussions here (call it wisdom born of naivete, if you will). To quote another song (CSNY): Truly, you exhibit great learning and comprehension of what you have learned. I'm happy you have chosen to stick around and join the forum! I wish you all health, happiness, and facility on your spiritual journey! Nitai Gauranga!!

This is not true for guests--or for new members, for that matter. Since you joined five years ago, perhaps you forgot (or, perhaps the forum had a different policy then). I joined this forum recently and was not able to insert URLs until I had posted a certain number of posts. I'll look for the exact policy.

Vikram Prabhu. I like what you have to say very much. Also, you are not immune (nor am I) to "superior-itis". Perhaps there is more than one Vikram Ramsundar, but this appears to be you apologizing for picking a fistfight with another visitor to these forums: http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/spiritual-discussions/443119-lord-shiva-son-brahma-3.html?highlight=ramsundar Here you are, apparently, speaking not so kindly (from the same page): Now, my body is only a year older than yours, but I pray I never use my age as an excuse for acting like a boor (I have plenty of other excuses ). Let us both refrain from deluding ourselves into believing that our (meager) intelligence and knowledge somewhow grant us superiority over those with less of those qualities (or simply a different type of intelligence or knowledge). Keep on speaking truth, Prabhu, in as (genuinely) humble manner as possible.

Krsna Prabhu. Thanks for your support, but I'm not sure if you counted all the negatives in that statement of mine. I may not have been saying exactly what you thought I said Hoping to attain your service, --MMd

Fascinating, Prabhu!! Thanks for taking the time to satisfy my curiosity! My family's claim to music fame is a late Great-Uncle Sol who co-wrote "I Don't Want to Set the World on Fire", which I'm too young to remember (and it's not in Dad's record collection). I wouldn't know the song if not for the relative who plays it at each family gathering I don't know why I've got music on the brain for the last few days...a God-Cousin of mine described his final LSD trip to me once. He had attended a concert in Berkeley, and, afterwards found that everything he thought or heard was reminding him of classic rock songs!! This freaked him out, so he quite dropping acid and soon afterwards joined up with the devotees.

Looks like most of the major points are being covered here. I like the bit about personal service to Gurudev. That's one thing that's not inherently present in "submissive aural [or visual] reception". Another consideration that might not occur to those on this forum (since all are literate (or at least semi-literate, considering some of the spelling and grammar seen here ))--many aspiring Bhaktas have little inclination for reading. Even for me, after sitting in front of a computer monitor all day, the last thing I want to do when I get home is crack open a book (but, lately, the sweet call of Prapanna Jivanamritam has overwhelmed me). For those not inclined to read, there is practical seva, and of practical sevas, what could be sweeter than to directly serve Gurudev? In Gurudev Srila Govinda Maharaja's sanga, there are a number of devotees who have come from the "Rainbow Family" ( http://www.welcomehome.org/ ) due to the tireless efforts of Nitya Hari Prabhu's annual Simply Wonderful kitchen at the US National Rainbow Gathering. These persons are happily engaged in making garlands, preparing bhoga for offering to the deities, distributing the mercy of Gurudev, etc. In repsonse to Theist's (consciously not appending anything to your handle per your request) challenge regarding the CC quotes: The question is: just what is Mahaprabhu promising? Is he promising that, by chanting the names of the Lord without ever surrendering to the feet of Gurudev, we will be liberated? I believe the generally accepted reading is that: one can get benefit from chanting the Holy Names regardless of the circumstances or manner of the chanting ("sex-o-rama" as a case in point). How much benefit, though? The analogy of shooting blanks is often used in relation to japa. When we have not been given the holy name by Guru, we are shooting blanks. There is some effect, to be sure, but it is mostly sound and smoke. There is no projectile fired (though you wouldn't want to put a gun loaded with blanks right up to your head and pull the trigger). I've said before on this forum, that my rational mind cannot accept (despite what is said in scripture) that a Guru is absolutely required to attain salvation and that, by sincerity alone, a person stranded on a desert isle could not attain the sweetest destination. However, a good friend would not send one into the Sahara with a compass and a map. A good friend would recommend a qualified guide.

Your cousin really wrote this song, Murali-ji? You've got one talented family! It's such a smooth song--I must have heard it countless times, but never caught the lyrics (except for the chorus). It's actually quite incisive. So, no doubt Neil has heard of Sri Krishna?

Puri. Guest of Melodies meant to say "Jagannath Puri", methinks. He's too intoxicated by Krishna Prem--he is seeing Puri everywhere.

...and now is probably a good time for me to shut my big mouth and sit in a corner for a while. Allow me to pass on this book recommendation from my senior Godbrother for those with an interest in learning more about how crooked the markets are. It's an old book, but the markets are the same. If anything, it's harder to make an "honest living" trading because all the major firms hire Computer Science PhD's to write trading software for them. The book is called: "Reminiscences of a Stock Operator" by Edwin Lef́aevre You can read a few pages of it on Google Books: http://books.google.com/books?id=HT5c4rPK59EC&pg=PA111&dq=confessions+of+a+stock+operator&psp=1&sig=rU_RGrAAzk-HDQX4GVsDIY-PVMo#PPA113,M1

Thank you for your blessing, Uncle!! It's obvious you hold Raghavendu Prabhu in high regard. Surely you see how sincere and good-hearted he is. Since you mention this bit of history, perhaps more of the story should be told here (another cautionary tale)... I don't recall mentioning anything about anybody and a shotgun. This is the story to the best of my recollection: Raghavendu and his first wife were living in the Miami ISKCON temple in the mid to late 70's as new, young devotees. Somehow, the (married, with a daughter) temple president got involved romantically with Raghavendu Prabhu's wife. In an effort to remedy the situation, Raghavendu moved with his family to L.A. The Miami temple president headed west and ended up living with Raghavendu's wife a couple hour's drive from L.A. Raghavendu Prabhu got much advice from other relatively new bhaktas as to what the "Vedic" thing to do in the situation would be. The advice involved violence. Somebody left a gun (it *was* a pistol) on a dresser for Raghavendu to find. When R. went to confront his wife and her lover (with the gun for protection), the lover shot at R. through the front door. R. shot back and the man was killed. Considering that it was a "crime of passion" Raghavendu Prabhu served 3 years for manslaughter (not "murder"). I have, on a number of occasions, seen Raghavendu Prabhu happily conversing with the widow and daughter of the man whom he delivered from his body (it was the widow's brother that furnished the gun). They seem to bear him no ill-will. Raghavendu Prabhu and my mother have been married since 1980'ish and they have two grown children together. When the children were young, we wished to shield them from this unsavory tale, but, as adults they know, so, while not a palatable topic of conversation, it's not a secret. My stepfather is called "Grandpa" by my kids and I love him as if he were my own birth father. He has shown me so much kindness over the years and has shared so much enlivening katha. All glories to that illustrious servant of the Vaishnavas, Sripad Raghavendu Prabhu!!!

I gleefully celebrate my anarthas. For, when I stumble and fall over them, some kind Vaishnava like yourself always seems to come along to lift me back up onto my feet. I ("I am that I am not"--not "I am that I am") am dark, bitter and angry. I have no fear of the "dark place" (mainframe (tech) reference). No offense was intended to the Vaishnavas, though. My attack was on a behavior, not a person. The person I name remains my master and free to caress or abuse me as he likes. Of course, if offense was taken, I am certainly to blame. Hari!!!!

Did you hear the one about the two brahmacharis walking in the forest...

In my view, day-trading is all smoke and no fire.

Thanks for the efforts. I am often deluded. Also, I am a firm believer in declaring our faults for all to see and learn from. This approach has served me well at work as well--when I make a mistake, rather than playing CYA (cover your a$$), I share it with all in hopes they will not make the same mistake. Ah, so the Ford recommendation was part of your humor (like the lottery ticket mention). In my agitation, I must have missed that. I apologize again for addressing you by name to start this forum. As I said before, it's a sign of my envy. You can accept my apologies or reject them as false. May I continue (or start to as the case might be) to feel remorse. None of my business. Just as it is none of my business (or anybody else's) how much my father lost (or how he got the money to lose in the first place--which I'd happily volunteer). But, if someone can benefit from the tale of his woe, why should I not shout it from atop the mountain? My college career was finished five or more years before my Dad ever started day-trading. I never expected him to pay off the loans. I'd have to be rather dense to not make the connection in my mind, though, that the amount he lost is ten times what I owe. I'm doing my best, Merciful Prabhu. I can do better. You may recall my claim that Maya Devi is deluding me into believing my work is honorable. I know first hand how much waste and cheating happens in the government sector. The bottom line is: I can do this work and sleep well at night. If you can day-trade and sleep well, bless you!! I certainly could not sleep well at night knowing I had an opportunity to warn others about the risks of speculative investment and failed to take that opportunity.

Sadly, I can't remember that play. No doubt, I had the great fortune of attempting to honor the remnants of the foodstuffs you had prepared for the Lord. You *are* something like a god to me Dear Uncle (if an irreverent and sometimes vengeful god). I'm Rasangi Devi Dasi's brat. Raghavendu Prabhu is my step-father. Dharmadhyaksa Prabhu is my birth father. No doubt, we are all saddened. I see Sripad Bhakti Sudhir Goswami Maharaj as a god much as I see you as a god. His splendor is brilliant and undeniable, and I must retreat to a safe distance before I can view it through slitted eyes. Well, Ramai Prabhu is still one of the pillars of our community, lovingly executing all of the arcana (with the occasional break provided by young Nilamani Prabhu (son of Srutasrava Prabhu)). We pray for his safe passage up and down Rodeo Gulch Road each afternoon while he goes for a bike ride during Their Lordships' naptimes. Knowing that you brought dear Ramai to this community places me eternally in your debt. I hope I have the chance to embrace your feet before leaving this body! With my sieve-like memory, I'm ashamed to say I don't remember you, Prabhu, but others have praised you to me. Some Hare Krishna Pizza sounds really good right now!! Can you Express Mail some? Just be sure to use soy cheese so we don't offend Theist Prabhu.

Not quite. You once mentioned being at the 13th Street San Jose Temple in 1982. I would have been the snot-nosed 10-year old running around in the back-yard during the class. What do you mean? I'm not wearing any underwear at all That sounds divine. I hope you put Earthlink out of business I sure *hope* your son can dance circles around me. I'm only "special" by government standards. You know, my step-dad keeps telling me the exact same thing. Chances are I'll never own a home here in Santa Cruz (unless it's a code-violating Yurt on an empty piece of already harvested timber-land in Lompico). Call me crazy, but I can't get enough of your rich, dusky words. Aw, now you're shamelessly flattering me. I'm such a sucker.

http://www.mandala.com.au/prapanna/ch-4.html But, *also*!!! But, HERE IS THE PUNCHLINE: I plead guilty to praising and abusing the nature and actions of others, and, sure enough, I'm preoccupied with falsehood...

You may not like how I spend my time, Theist Prabhu, but none of my supervisors have had any issue with my job performance. If you really believe that day-trading is a good way for Vaishnavas to make a living, why not reveal just how much you've made from day-trading since your big windfall in 1999 (the height of the first tech bubble)? For that matter, why not reveal just how much you made at that time (on the backs of other less-fortunate (or "accute" if we're being generous) investors)? For 8 years now, you have been living on the fruit of others' misery, isn't it? Is there any other personal information of mine which I may furnish to you for the purpose of reprisals?

Sorry, Guruvani Prabhu, but I won't grant you your Social Darwinism. I ranted about that on a recent thread of Suchandra-ji's. "Survival of the fittest" is an utterly materialistic bastard child of Darwin's scientific theory. It ignores the all-too-natural (and mundane for that matter) qualities of cooperation, compassion, attraction, friendship, etc. By your logic, if I get fired for posting on Audarya all day, I can just go down to the Safeway and get a job as a butcher, no? Speaking of cooperation. If more aspiring Vaishnavas like ourselves could see past our petty differences and cooperate instead of engaging in a struggle with one another for survival, wouldn't we thrive? Here in Santa Cruz, the disciples of Baba Hari Das own a number of well-established legitimate businesses. I understand that the Internet Service Provider (ISP) Earthlink is owned by Scientologists (wouldn't it be safe to assume that the Scientologists applying for jobs there might get some special consideration?).