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Everything posted by SishirSaha

  1. Raga the word diksa has a range of meanings and it is important for us to see the usage of the word in terms of the actual context it is being presented in. The Upanisads speak of sanyasa-diksa as one kind of diksa. Again there is diksa of a student accepting a particular vow or discipline (diksa) undertaken to get the vision of a demigod by a student performing a fire yagna. kim-devato’syam udicyam disy asiti. soma-devata iti sa somah kasmin pratisthita iti. Diksayam iti. Kasmin nu diksa pratisthita iti. Satya iti. Tasmad api diksitam ahuh, satyam vada iti: satye hy eva diksa pratisthita iti. kasmin nu satyam pratisthitam iti, hrdaye iti hovaca, hrdayena hi satyam janati hrdaye hy eva satyam pratisthitam bhavatiti. evam evaitat, yajnavalkya. Yagnavalkya says realization of the truth or the reality (Satyam) is the basis or diksa. In other words you get diksa and do a fire sacrifice so you can attain a vision of a demigod and get boons from them. There is also usage of the word diksa where diksa is meaning to take on a particular "vow". This usage is found in Caitanya Caritamrta. Haridas Thakur said to the prostitute, koti-nama-grahana-yajna kari eka-mase ei diksa kariyachi, haila asi sese :: "I have vowed to chant ten million names in a month." Again, Mahaprabhu said "no diksam na ca sat-kriyam na ca purascaryam manag iksate mantro yam rasana-sprg eva phalati sri-krsna-namatmakah" which Srila Prabhupada translates as "Chanting the holy name does not depend on initiation, pious activities or the purascarya regulative principles generally observed before initiation. The holy name does not wait for all these activities. It is self-sufficient." Again, "diksa-purascarya-vidhi apeksa na kare jihva-sparse a-candala sabare uddhare" or "One does not have to undergo initiation or execute the activities required before initiation. One simply has to vibrate the holy name with his lips. Thus even a man in the lowest class can be delivered." So statements in Haribhaktivilasa about diska do need to be seen in terms of these other important statements about diksa which are given in bonafide scriptures.
  2. Could you also provide the references for these things you say. I have Bhakti Sandarbha here on my bookshelf and I would like to check what you say for myself.
  3. Could you please provide these quotations.
  4. Raga asked if I have any knowledge or familiarity with the philosophy of Jagabandhu. Yes I do. Through my relatives I know what his ideas are. They say he is Mahaprabhu reborn and that you do not have to get diksa initiation from a authentic Guru in parampara. So for us they are like Swaminarayana or Sathya Sai Baba who are also supposed to be an incarnations and teach the Nirakara Brahma has been born as an incarnation. They are mayavadis. This talk about so called traditional gaudiya vaisnavas leaves me a bit puzzled. I am wondering what constitutes a traditional gaudiya vaisnava in your view. My family are from Chittagong in Bangladesh. In Sri Caitanya Caritamrta (Madhya Lila Chapter 7) Srila Krishnadas Kaviraj Goswami describes Sri Caitanya's tour of south india. It clearly says there that when Mahaprabhu was in south india he empowered many acaryas who became mahabhagavatas and who later accepted disciples themselves and that those disciples had their second and subsequent generations of their guru parampara. Their guru parampara came from Mahaprabhu directly. In their guru parampara they received the Harinama mantra and then they gave the Harinama mantra and Krsna Consciousness -- worship of Krsna and not Narayana - to their followers and disciples. They did not get given the diksa mantras which old devotees in Bengal have given to their disciples. In East Bengal there are also many devotees who receive the Hare Krsna mantra when they become initiated into the sampraday. From Caitanya Caritamrta we can see that receiving Harinama mahamantra was practiced in the time of Mahaprabhu but we find in Bengal some high caste individuals make many claims about how we need to get the diksa mantras from some high caste guru who is in the family of Nityananda. But in our ISKCON we also think of Harinama as initiatino and that idea is supported in Caitanya Caritamrta. So what do you have to say to that?
  5. It seems a bit of a stretch to call Premananda Bharati a Vaisnava. I have always thought real Gaudiya Vaisnavas would call him a Mayavadi or maybe a sahajiya since he is a follower of Jagabandhu, not Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
  6. This is incorrect. There are thousands of things in Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur's Bengali purports which are not in Srila Prabhupad's Caitanya Caritamarta. There are also a large number of comments in Srila Prabhupad's purports to Caritamrta which are not in Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur's translation or his anubhasya commentary. Maybe in the future an ISKCON devotee will translate the anubhasya into English so non Indian devotees can study haktisiddhanta Thakur's translation. We are lucky we have both translations and not just one.
  7. Narayana Maharaja: “Your Prabhupada, Srila Swami Maharaja, only changed the name into English. He is not the founder-acarya of that eternal ISKCON… I am ISKCON. I'm not different from ISKCON. I am 'Bhaktivedanta' [srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja]. Like father, like son. I am the real successor of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja, and there is no other. You should know this very openly. I am Bhaktivedanta and he is Bhaktivedanta, but he received this name after I did. I'm senior to him in this regard… I'm Bhaktivedanta, and I’m also ISKCON. Don't think that I'm out of ISKCON.” Murwillumbah, Australia: Feb. 18, 2002 (eve)
  8. Srila Jayapataka Swami didn't write that poem Vaisnava Ke. It is a poem of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Thakura translated by Srila Jayapataka Swami
  9. I strongly disagree with Narayana Maharaja's so called preaching. But it is important to recognize that he has a right to preach in his own style, which is certainly different from Srila Prabhupada's style. One emphasizes gopi bhava, the other emphasizes book distribution and street sankirtan. So I see no fault in somebody posting this article where Srila Gour Govinda Swami speaks out about Narayana Maharaja's preaching style. As a senior disciple of Srila Prabhupada it was necessary for him to speak out, even if it meant that he was challenging other senior disciples of Srila Prabhupada such as Giriraja Swami and Tamal Krishna Goswami (or Narayana Maharaja).
  10. A Guest put this on another thread. If the Guest who has this tape of His Holiness Jayapataka Swami talking with Sridhara Swami can make it available I can translate the Bengali sections. Damodara dasa *********************************************** Guest In a talk from 1979 between Jaya Pataka Swami and Srila Sridhar Maharaj... It is half in English and half in bangla.... Jayapataka: (Starts explaining/asking his question in bengali...from what I can make out by my very limited knowlege of Bengali he says: "In the months of june and July in 1977 Srila Prabhupada was in Vrndavan....in gaura Purnima of that year he had stopped giving diksha because he was no longer physically well enogh to do so...then in june july he appointed some ritviks..around this time [i don't know whether it was before or after the appointment of the ritviks] 5 or 8 boys from Bihar came and wanted diksha from him. Jayapataka: (now speaking english) Prabhupada said to them "You are all my disciples...you are all very good boys....you are all my disciples" but he never gave them any mala or any new name.Then they all went back to their village and gave themselves mala and name. Srila Guru Maharaja: (In english) Then he has accepted them, he gave admittion, now shiksha guru is necessary. When has accepted them direct, face to face, then they're direct disciple, now siksha guru is necessary to guide them in the details. Acceptance..acceptance is of more value (more value than actual formal initiation..I think this is what is being implied by Guru Maharaja) Jayapataka: Thats what I thought...that those boys who actually went to him amd Prabhupada said "You are my sisya"..that that acceptance means that they are directly his disciple.(Jayapataka starts speaking in begali again here, I think he says - ...but those who did not go there to him those that remained in there village they are not in the same position) Srila Guru Maharaja: (In bengali) Yes those that heard directly from Swami Maharaja's mouth, they were directly accepted by him (as his disciples) they got his recognition..but those that did not go to him and hear from him, they will have to go through the proper channel. The talk goes on in bengali ...but then there is more english from Srila Guru Maharaja: "Mantra is formal encouched expression but what is embodied there (in the mantra) that is to be opened (revealed) and that tattva jnana is not an easy thing or non important factor...REAL DIKSHA IS THERE in tattva jnana (in the revealing of what is there couched in the mantra..i.e. siksa is the important thing) Then Guru Maharaja (again in Bengali) talks about the jati Gosai giving "bifala mantras" ("fruitless mantras" or as in Sri Guru and his Grace "Dead mantras")..also I think he says how these Jati Gosai will give mantras but don't themselves know what is in that mantra (i.e can't give siksa sufficiently to make diksa fruitful...again pointing to the idea that siksha is the most important thing) Jayapataka: Yes..that clears up the point.
  11. If someone is prepared to accept someone as their Guru when they know he is not liberated or a pure Vaisnava, then IT IS their own decision that causes them to get into this sort of difficulty. A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master. NOI - Purport to verse 5
  12. Some relatives of mine who live in Kolkata took me to the Tarapith once. It is near Shantiniketan. At the Tarapith I saw one woman sadhu in an ochre sari with matted hair and a snake on her shoulder and I think she was the most beautiful woman I ever saw. It wasn't a good thing for a teenage boy to see.
  13. Friend if you pray to Goddess Parameshwari and study Sri Sri Chandi so Goddess will be pleased with you then Goddess will show the Guru to you. But do you understand how difficult the kriyas are? You may go mad. Just chant Hare Krsna instead.
  14. I am testing to see if
  15. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura is not treated with the respect he deserves by the people on that web site you put the link to. The modern Krsna Consciousness Movement was started by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Srila Prabhupada but those people commit Vaisnava aparadha againts them.
  16. When Vana Maharaj was in Germany he gave Harinama initiation to a man called Herr Schultz who became Sadananada das (Swami). Vana Maharaj returned to India and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja was not happy with him. Not for giving initiation but for other things. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja then sent Bhakti Saranga Goswami to London to preach and said Bhakti Saranga Goswami was "preacher in charge". At Haora station Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja came to say farewell to Bhakti Saranga Goswami. In front of many devotees Bhakti Saranga Goswami asked what he should do if someone in England wanted to take diksa. In front of all the disciples Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja said to Bhakti Saranga Goswami "you can give them initiation". Bhakti Saranga Goswami initiated one Australian man who he brought back from England to meet Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja. This is in the new (unpublished) book about Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja written by Bhakti Vikasa Swami.
  17. When Srila Prabhupada approached Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur asking for initiation was his attitude that he was taking initiation from a madhyam adhikari or an uttama adhikari. From Srila Prabhupada's writings we see he regarded his Guru as an uttama adhikari. We should all follow in Srila Prabhupada's footsteps and take shelter at the feet of an uttama adhikari Guru. That is what Srila Prabhupada wanted us to do. <hr> A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master. NOI - Purport to verse 5
  18. Thanks I will take a look at that web site Damodara Dasa
  19. Haribol, Do the devotees here know any references about fire yajnas being performed by Sri Caitanya's devotees such as Advaita Acarya and the Rupa Goswami. In ISKCON we have fire sacrifices when devotees take initiation but I can't find any refernces for fire yagnas in the Caitanya Caritamrta. I also read through the Caitanya Bhagavata but I didn't see anything there either. thanks in advance, Damodara Dasa
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