Somesh Kumar

I am very impressed by your addressing of Thanks for addressing like this and reminding everyone about their REAL identity!

I am very impressed by your addressing of Thanks for addressing like this and reminding everyone about their REAL identity!

Your answers are EXACT and to the point. Especially this one Quote by Cheers (Shvu?) I agree cent percent with what you've said! That's why Srila Rupa Gosvami says in His prayer about Pure Bhakti as: <c> Anyabhilashita shunyam, Jnyana Karmaadi Anavrtam, Anukuulyena Krishnaanushilanam, Bhaktir Uchyate</c> Meaning that Pure Bhakti is devoid of any other desires (which are dharma (religiosity), artha(economic development), kaama(sense gratification) and even moksha (liberation)), and it even does not take into consideration the Jnyana (knowledge) and Karmaa (action) part of spirituality. What else? It should be favourable towards Krishna (Anukuulyena Krishnaanushilanam). And how can it be favourable towards Krishna? By following Krishna's instruction: <c>Man mana bhava,Mad Bhakta, Mad Yaji,Mam Namaskuru, Mamevaishyasi, Satyam Te, Prati Jaane, Priyosi Me.</c> Meaning - "Give your mind to Me, Become My devotee, Offer respects and obesisances to Me. Then surely You'll come to Me. I am telling this to You because You are Dear to Me." Hare Krishna!

Your answers are EXACT and to the point. Especially this one Quote by Cheers (Shvu?) I agree cent percent with what you've said! That's why Srila Rupa Gosvami says in His prayer about Pure Bhakti as: <c> Anyabhilashita shunyam, Jnyana Karmaadi Anavrtam, Anukuulyena Krishnaanushilanam, Bhaktir Uchyate</c> Meaning that Pure Bhakti is devoid of any other desires (which are dharma (religiosity), artha(economic development), kaama(sense gratification) and even moksha (liberation)), and it even does not take into consideration the Jnyana (knowledge) and Karmaa (action) part of spirituality. What else? It should be favourable towards Krishna (Anukuulyena Krishnaanushilanam). And how can it be favourable towards Krishna? By following Krishna's instruction: <c>Man mana bhava,Mad Bhakta, Mad Yaji,Mam Namaskuru, Mamevaishyasi, Satyam Te, Prati Jaane, Priyosi Me.</c> Meaning - "Give your mind to Me, Become My devotee, Offer respects and obesisances to Me. Then surely You'll come to Me. I am telling this to You because You are Dear to Me." Hare Krishna!

Previous post done by this "Gopi bharthur . Kamalayor Dasa Dasaanudaas" - Aspiring to be Krishna's servant's servant's servant !!!

Previous post done by this "Gopi bharthur . Kamalayor Dasa Dasaanudaas" - Aspiring to be Krishna's servant's servant's servant !!!

As usual very nice inputs Theist. As an input to this: From Srimad Bhagavatam: sa vai pumsam paro dharma yato bhaktir adhokshaje ahiatuki aprtihatata yayatma suprasidati The supreme dharma or occupational duty of human being is to render devotional service to the Lord (who cannot be known by the blunt senses). This devotion should be without any consideration of benefit and without any consideration of the circumstance, which leads to the satisfaction and happiness of the self!

My two cents in: Jignasu or Inquistive is the person who does'nt have knowledge but is interested to know about God. Gyaani or the Seeker of knowledge is the person who has some knowledge. He might even have the knowledge of Brhaman (for example the Kumaras and Sukadev Goswami intially before developing the prema for Krishna) but does'nt know about the Personality of Godhead Sri Krishna! The enlightened assembly of respectful devotees here may correct me if I am wrong. Hare Krsna

Krishna says: Kaamesha krodhesha rajoguna samudbhavam mahaashano mahapaapma vidhyeha iha vairinam. Krishna says that lust and anger which is the product of the mode of passion should be considered the greatest enemy of a person. So, a person does wrong knowingly because he/she is under the infuence of the mode of passion. The answer lies again in the previous answer. Also there's one more verse which explains this: prakrti kriyamanani gunai karmani sarvasha So the gunamayi prakrti is forcing the person to become absorbed in that guna (passion/ignorance) This is because the strength of Gunamyi Maya is very strong as Krishna says: daivi hy esha gunamyi, mama maaya duratyaya, maam eva ye prapadyante, maayaa metaam taranti te. Krishna says My maaya(illusory energy) is gunamayi (with modes of ignorance/passion and goodness) and it's very difficult to overcome it! But whoever comes to me, I help them to cross over this maaya. This is because as Krishna says: Ye yatha maam prapdyante, taams tathaiva bhajaami aham, Krishna says that "Whoever approaches me in a particular way, I also approach him similarly". So if a person does'nt want to approach Krishna His senses will be covered by material intelligence i.e., covered by the veil of maaya. But if the person decides to approach Krishna and starts his journey towards Him, He slowly starts removing the veil of maaya. The very fact that you're asking these questions implies that you are able to see through it! In fact, the solution to the problem starts from the point where you start realising that there's a problem! As Krishna says: chatur vidha bhajante maam, jana sukrtir arjuna, artho, jignasur, artharthi, gyaani cha bharatarshabha. So you have already started your approach to Krishna, because you're a jignasu (who wants to know about Krishna and maayaa). So, Krishna will surely help you because of your inquisiteveness!

Krishna has the answer for this as well.. Udhdhred atmana aatmaanam naatmaanam vasadayed, aatmaiva aatmane bandhur, aatmaiva ripuraatmana. Krishna says to Arjuna and through him to all of us that "You have to conquer your mind(lower mind) using mind (higher mind - which is actually Paramatma - upadrshta, anumanta) And then He continues that mind is itself the greatest enemy or friend of the person depending on whether the lower mind has been conquered by the higher mind or not. So, the first step towards acheiving that is conquering the lower mind and that can be done by keeping the mind engaged in Krishna (man mana bhava).. To get the unflinching devotion really requires the mercy of Krishna and mercy of Krishna depends on devotion... As Krishna says: tesham satata yuktaanaam, bhajataam priti purvakam, daddhami buddhi yogam tam, yena maam upaayanti te. To those who are engaged in my devotion constantly (if it's not constant at start, even if a person tries sincerely) to him I give them the knowledge by which he'll come to Me!

yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana sarvair gunais tatra samasate surah harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna mano-rathenasati dhavato bahih "One who has unflinching devotion for the Personality of Godhead has all the good qualities of the demigods. But one who is not a devotee of the Lord has only material qualifications that are of little value. This is because he is hovering on the mental plane and is certain to be attracted by the glaring material energy." (Bhag. 5.18.12)

Krishna says: Yastvaatma ratireva syadaatma triptashcha maanava, Aaatmanyeva cha santushta, tasya karyam na vidyate. Meaning that The person who is satisfied in His own Self (aatmanyeva cha santushta)- he has no work to do. which in turn means that he's never bored. There's another verse which Shankaracharya says in Bhaja Govindam. Yogarato va bhogarato va, Sangarato va sangavihina, yasya brahmani ramate chittam, nandati nandati nandatyeva. If a person wants to enjoy, or leave enjoyment(being bored in mundane terms!!!). If a person is in company of others or devoid of company of others (bored). Only they enjoy the real happiness of life whose mind dwells in the Brahman (in our case it's Sri Krishna!) There's one more famous verse which Srila Prabhupada always quotes: Ramante yogina anante, Satyaanande chidatmani, Iti Rama padenashu, Parambrahma abhdiyate. That is a yogi enjoys(ramante) real pleasure (satyaananda) continuously(anante) from the mind by thinking of God (Rama). Therefore Parabrahman is also called as Rama(Pleasure giver). So the best way to avert boredom is to actually note that that's the time when mind is peaceful (believe it or not!) and also to use it in the smaranam of Krishna!

As Krishna says: sraddhaval labhate jnanam tat-parah samyatendriyah jnanam labdhva param santim acirenadhigacchati A faithful person gains knowledge and then controls his senses and after that he gets everlasting peace! So, initially faith in Krishna is the most important. Leaving aside all the thoughts about how the world is created etc.. Once this is firm, all other knowledge will be given by Krishna himself! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Rather, the person will not be interested to know anything else other than Krishna! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

This was a very good analysis of the religion and it's followers. I think pure devotees see everything in respect to Krishna and hence the description of Christ as Krishna... Though it does make sense. Is'nt it??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Krishna says : Api cet suduracharo, bhajate maam ananya bhak, sadhur eva sa mantavyak, samyag vyavasthitho hi sah. Even if a person who has bad habits (duracharo) takes up to remembering and serving Krishna (Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau - serving Krishna with his tongue!), then he has to be considered a Sadhu! Why? Krishna continues .... Kshipram bhavati dharmatma, Sashvachchantim gachchati, Kaunteya prati janihi, na me bhakta pranashyati. Because by continuing to serve Krishna he soon becomes a very saintly person and attains peacefulness. And then Krishna says "Arjuna declare to everyone that My devotee never perishes" Such merciful is our dear Lord! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

But the attribute here does'nt mean that any kind of attributes. Attribute means "guna". Is'nt it? And what are the gunas - sattva, rajas and tamas. As Krishna says: traigunya vishaya veda, nishtraigunya bhavarjuna. This means that Krishna is asking to overcome the sattva/rajas/tamo guna to come to the shuddha sattva platform. One more place as Krishna says: naanyam gunebhya kartaaram, yadaa drshtanu pashyanti, gunebhyashcha param vetti, madbhaavam sodhi gachchati. When a person sees that only the three gunas are being manifest and then He sees Me above the three gunas then He attains My nature! Therefore the feelings of contentment and discontentment with respect to spiritual nature can never be compared with the material nature which is always influenced by the three gunas! If Veda Vyasa is not self-realised then no one in this whole universe is self-realised!

Yes, It means that when a hunter/robber says your name continuously, He'll become Valmiki! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Because, Valmiki (as instructed by Narada Ji) said "mara" (in Hindi it means to kill) or in your case -> "amar" (in Hindi/Sanskrit it means eternal) continously and finally he was able to say "rama" or in your case it becomes "ram"!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Dear Spiritualsri, Hare Krishna. Your query is very nice. I'll try to answer this according to the little knowledge that I have. Yes, this is true. Krishna says about Paramatma as: Upadrshta anumanta ca, bharta bhokta maheshwara, Parmatmeti ca api yukto, dehesmin purushah parah. This means that he is the witness (Upadrshta) and gives consent to the activites (anumanta). Also he is the maintainer (bharta) and enjoyer (bhokta) and the Supreme God (Maheshwara) and he resides in the body (dehesmin) and finally he is the transcendental person (purushah parah). Regarding your second part of question: People go against it due to their covering by the material energy. The more the covering of the material energy, the less the person will be able to hear Paramatma's voice! As Krishna says Yatha dhumen avrtam agni, yatha adarsanam malena ca, yatha benavrtam garbhas, tatha tenedam avrtam. This means that there are three kinds of material covering over the Paramatma. They are: (1) The smoke covering the fire. (2) The dust covering the mirror . (3) The embryo covering the foetus. As you can see the covering (1) is the least and the covering (3) is the most difficult to overcome. So a person whose covering is (1), He/She can easliy hear what the paramtama is saying and He/She even tries to implement it as much as possible, where as for a person with covering (3), it's very difficult to hear the paramatma's voice. The enlightened assembly here would be able to answer you in a better way and they can also correct me if I am wrong. Hari Hari!

I'd like to take this opportunity to appreciate Madhavananda Das Ji of Raganuga.com fame, as well! Also, JN Das Ji's contribution is superb. All glories to you all!

Good to see an agreement over some issue here! After all mama vartamanuvartante, manushya partha sarvasha So at some point we all will surely understand Krishna, as we did for this topic!!!

This discontentment of Veda Vyasa was not material discontentent! How can He be materially discontent? He has written so many vedic literatures recognised by everyone as the <u>REAL TRUTH</u> and still you say that He is not realised? Do you really think so? This is the spiritual discontentment and Narada Ji, the great bhakta of Krishna, advised Him to write SB, which gave Him the real bliss for which He was looking for! And that's the reason He wrote this: dharma svanushtitha pumsam, visvaksena kathasu ya, notpadyet yadi ratim, <u>srama eva hi kevalam</u> "<u>If one does not develop attachment to activities of Hari, then it's just hard labour, nothing else</u>"

I've quoted this before as Krishna says this: Yoginam api sarvesham, mad gatenantar atmana, sradhdhavaan bhajate yo mam, sa me yuktatamo matah Among all the yogis (who want to acheive me bby Brahman knwoledge or through Karma) the person who fixes his mind in me and the one who <u>worships</u> Me with faith I consider him to be The Topmost (Best) Yogi Krishna said this in SB: Aham bhakta paradhino, hi asvatantra iha dvija, sadhubhir grasta hrdyor, bhaktair bhakta jana priya "I am under the control of My devotees and I love the person who is <u>bhakta of My bhakta</u>" You can find innumerable instances where Krishna says that, but ofcourse, if there in no faith in Krishna then a person cannot understand this. Asradhanah prushah, dharma syaysya parantapa, aprapya mam vartanti, mrtyu sansara vartmani "A person without faith never attains Me (Krishna) and comes back to the place of death" I accept this comment by Adi Shankaracarya! But again the point remains the same. I can say many personal examples which justifies BG 18.54 where in the great Advaitin saints do Bhajan and enjoy the transcendental bliss of Hari kirtan and Hari katha! Why do they find bliss in that? <u>Because it is not material. </u> <u>They have left everything material and are in the Brahman realisation stage and still they enjoy Hari katha and kirtan.</u> Why? <u>Because transcendental bliss in Hari katha and kirtan is a stage which comes after the Brahma bhuta prsannatma stage!</u>

Shvu, You'll surely feel better Prabhu Shvu because it is eaten by Krishna's nectarean lips: patram pushpam , phalam toyam, yo me bhakta prayachchati, tad aham bhakti upahrtam, asnami pryatatmanah This is the concept behind it Shvu prabhu ji. By the way How did Shankaracharya explain this verse???

Dear Karthik, Analogy is the best way of understanding complex situations. So, it's good to have an analogy. Though I agree with you that in this subject analogy cannot be taken cent percent. No, she is not fulfilling her dharma. But please do understand what I posted before as well. The forgetfulness of dharma on part of the girl is again because of Krishna. Why? This verse will answer it which I quoted before: sarvasya chaham, hrdi sannivishtam, mattah smritir, gyanam apohanam cha "I am present in the heart of everyone and rememberance, forgetfulness and knowledge is due to Me" Also the forgetfulness is based on the wish of the person as the Paramatma consents to the wish of the person as I quoted the verse before: updrshta anumanta cha bharta bhokta mahesvara pamatmeti capyukto dehesmin purusha parah So Krishna is consenting to the wish of the person - anumanta. The point I am trying to make here by repeating from the previous post is that It's because of Krishna's and Jiva's wish that someone wants to stop at Brahman realisation and someone comes to the realisation of the stage above Brahman which is <u>Paramatma</u> and <u>Bhagavaan</u>. Sukadeva Gosvami was a Brahma-gyaani and what was His enjoyment after attaining that? Singing Hari katha Talking about Hari's pastimes and enjoying in that blissful ocean of Hari's sweetness!!! Veda Vyasa, father of Sukadev Gosvami, who wrote all the Vedas and so many philosophical treatises. He felt that even though He has written so much about Brahman etc. etc. but still He was lacking something. And what gave Him satisfaction? Glorifying Hari and His activities in Srimad Bhagavatam By considering the above examples don't you think that Vaishnavism is superior? Please don't consider this as fanaticism or something like that...

Forgetting and rememberence is due to Krishna as He says in BG sarvasya chaham hrdi sannivishtam mattah smritir gyanam apohanam cha <u>I am situated in heart of everyone and rememberance, forgetfulness and knowledge is due to Me!</u> No. This is her dharma, if I can say so! So there's no question of betrayal here. Rather the parents are happy to get her married! Sorry, I don't agree with you here. You mean to say that girl has to forget her parents after marriage??? Is this correct??? The same question arises in case of Sadguna Brahman who is our everything- tvameva mata cha pita tvameva tvameva bandhush cha sakha tvameva tvameva vidya dravinam tvameva tvameva sarvam mama deva deva Is it fair on the part of the jiva to forget Bhagavaan after he realises his goal??? Of course, finally forgetfulness and rememberance is again given by Bhagavaan basing on the desire of the jiva. updrshta anumanta bharta bhokta mahesvara paramtmeti capyukto dehesmin purusa parah! Are you trying to get this point? But finally as Shvu said we have to agree to disagree now.