bija

Haribol,

What do you do with your radha krishna and gaur nitai vigraha when you go out on vacation. You can give it to a devotee , but if there are no devotee and you can not take them then ...

YS, DEV

I was just wondering Dev, have your Murtis been installed with ceremony etc asking the Lord's presence in Them?

If so, Stonehearted and Guruvani are quite correct in reference to your RadhaKrsna Deity. Krsna Deities need very conscientious service, following rules and regs. If they are not installed things may be simpler.

Service of Gaura-Nitai is much simpler. It is the nature of Lords Nityananda/Gauranga not to consider offences. They are very magnanimous.

Anyway, as this thread shows...many heads are better than one to get to the bottom of things.

Maybe you can put them to rest. Make up some nice beds or small blankets.

So they can rest nicely while you are away. When you come home, have a wonderful festival of waking them. I have a friend who is doing this presently, more or less.

Originally Posted by Runa999

Hail and Namaste,

Does the answer have to be one way or the other? You attack this issue as if it has to be either matter or spirit when that particular posiition is faulty at best. From the Vedic viewpoint, all things are imbued with spirit, soul, or God. From the Monist viewpoint all things are one soul, spirit, or God. God is ultimate scientist. Do you actually think that all spiritual happenings must be mystical or unnatural? Does it not make more sense that God would craft us in a way so that having mystical experiences would be natural, or induced in some way that relies on natural properties? It would be like asking the cable guy to give us TV with a banana and twizzlers. If the mechanics if you will, could not allow for it in the first place, then the reality of mystical experience would not even exist to talk about. The "God Spot" in the brain developed for a reason. It developed so that we would be able to know the Truth. The existence of these chemical and bio-electric reactions are not disproofs of the spirit or of God, but rather an undeniable glimpse into the mastermind of the Primal Soul...the ultimate scientist...of whom without, we would not be.

 

Does the answer have to be one way or the other? I don't think so.

From the standpoint that God has diverse energies, in a sense then, all is a part of God. So from material vision there is material verses spiritual, but from higher vision everything is spiritual. All energy is spiritual.

The other night I was watching a science show about 'dark energy' and 'dark matter'. I found it interesting that scientists use the word 'dark', in reference for something they do not have tangible proof of yet. But in spiritual terminology 'gross matter' could be termed 'dark', and this finer matter (as yet untangible to scientists) could actually be termed 'light'.

Somewhere it is quoted in Vedic texts that, the spiritual sky consists of 75% of all that be. These scientists by theory had come to conclusion that 'dark energy' consists of 75% of all that be, 'dark matter' makes up the balance to 95%, and then evening out with another 5% (matter that we know of). Strange coincidence?

So, could we say that energy can be described in simple terms as fine, finer, and finest.

Personally I have no problem with meditations, visions, or mystical experiences showing up on a brain scan. I feel this does not debunk the spiritual reality, and class all these mystical experiences as purely matter. But actually the opposite...that everything is spiritual energy in a higher sense, and that everything is spiritually connected. Even the tiny brain, to the greater reality.

As far as I know Tirisilex, there are 'no hard and fast' rules.

Any chords or melody springing from your heart would be divine I feel.

A quote from the inside cover of the newly re-issued George Harrison

album...'Living in the material world'.

"I think with us having all the material wealth that we need...you know, the average person feels that if they had a car and a telly and a house then that's where it's at. But if you get a car and a telly and a house...and even a lot of money...your life's still empty because it's still on this gross level. What we need isn't material, it's spiritual. We need some other form of peace and happiness."

 

'George Harrison said those words in September 1967. It was a remarkable insight from a 24-year old, whose recent investigation of Indian music had led to the discovery of a spiritual path that he would follow for the rest of his life.'

thanks for the videos, sruti.

It is a long long time since I have heard any espanol spoken.

Mahalo. Que lastima que no tiene mas cantas de Agnideva prabhu.

does this mean, 'what a pity we do not have more songs of Agnideva!'

and what does 'Mahalo' mean?

please don't leave us guessing stonehearted?

www.audarya-fellowship.com/forums/recommended-websites/417322-hare-krishna-mp3-player-1-5-1-4-4-4-a.html

This downloadable stream player has the Srimad Bhagavatam in the audio books section. Once the player is installed the Srimad Bhagavatam files are accessible in the HTTP link for download.

even among the disciples of the same guru there are various interpretations of guru's instructions, especially when these instructions are somewhat criptic or appear to contradict other instructions of the same guru. when guru has departed for Goloka, resolving of such controversies is no small matter.

 

what settles such debates? quote by kulapavana

What settles such debates? I guess qualification of the disciple/practicioner would be a factor. The experience of gradual devotion should come into account. The subjective experience of progression through stages such as faith, steadiness, taste, attachment etc. would confirm the Guru's instruction and essence has been comprehended.

This approach may be perceived as risky though. Ofcourse, who is qualified to know such an experience is bonafide. I feel this is why the guidance of an advanced siksha guru would be of importance. Even if the siksha guru's implementations were somewhat different than the departed diksha guru.

These are just some thoughts, Kulapavana, I am not qualified to give an answer supported by scriptural quotes.

....there are various interpretations of guru's instructions, especially when these instructions are somewhat criptic or appear to contradict other instructions of the same guru. quote kulapavana

So to attempt to answer your quote in a more direct way, could it be possible that these apparent criptic or contradictory instructions are actually not so. But infact, that the guru may give instruction in a diverse way, but only implement some of the instructions practically. Practicality for time place and circumstance you might say. In that some particular instructions may not be implemented, but be left to a qualifided guru, further down the line in the parampara to implement at a later date when appropriate.

Just some thoughts.

Can't hold those everfresh youths with white beards back from a good festival. quote by Sridas

Thank you Prabhu. I feel today's purpose is complete, upon hearing such wonders. Blessings to you.

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Speaking of feet dust, take a look at the homepage of mandala . com .au for some images of several great souls whose feet dust you will find at Giri Govardhana. quote by guest

www.mandala.com.au

We can only aspire to somehow mingle in the feetdust of the suddha bhaktas and thru their example eventually their infectious affection may infuse us with that current of loving exchange.

Yes when will that time come our way? quote by Sridas

I hope it comes soon. Thank you Sridas for easing my heart about the post header.

I could ask you all day to please share more about the Glories of Guru Maharaja. I remember three years ago, I was most fortunate to receive a copy of the Hidden Treasure of the Absolute Gita. This was a turning point for me. Very personal...upon reading it I became enlightened of the all-comprehensive nature of God. Really I am such a fool...I did not perceive such a thing before this. So in my house I keep a photo of His Holiness, as an expression of gratitude. Sincerely I feel his writings are wonderful. Consider me a dog...begging morsels at your table.

I have seen the link to HH BS Govinda's tour in St Petersburgh that you posted in another thread. I don't think I have seen a friendlier face for some time. Have you met him? Is he nice?

Below is an entry from my spiritual journal....I love this little story, please enjoy...

I have been reading a small book called 'Golden Reflections' that tells the stories of BR Sridhar Maharaja and the early days and developments of the Sri Caitanya Saraswat Math. I would like to share a sweet story from the book about HH BR Sridhara Maharaja and his disciple Srila BS Govinda Maharaja, and two red-eyed buffaloes. It is a very sweet story, warm, and blissful.

Reading about the early days of HH BR Sridhara Maharaja and Sri Caitanya Saraswat Math has warmed my heart and makes me reflect on our own little developing community here at our home. My dear friends, we are also in the beginning of a sweet transcendental adventure together.

I hope you enjoy this pastime from the book, "Golden Reflections"...I have called it....

*****Two Red-eyed Buffaloes*****

 

Question: are labourers hired to cultivate the field at the Math?

 

Start Quote: Srila BS Govinda Maharaja: Generally the cultivation is done by the brahmacaris of the Math, but at certain times extra labour is hired. Around 1962 we purchased two very big and strong male buffaloes to help with the cultivation. I was the driver of the buffaloes and they were very happy with me. They were very broad and strong, and they were so big it is not easy to imagine. The cross-bars on the cart were especially wide for the buffaloes to fit in.

Those buffaloes would play with me here, but Srila Guru Maharaja would be afraid they may kill me. They were big, strong, and young, and Guru Maharaja did not like that I would always mix with them.

In order to feed them grass I would take them to the pasture in front of Mahaprabhu's Temple. One day I was with them there and Srila Guru Maharaja told me, "Don't go close to the buffaloes." But I assured him, "These buffaloes will not attack me." He objected, "These are beasts, they can attack you."

I replied, "No Maharaja, these are not like beasts." Then I went in front of the biggest buffalo, then I quickly went to his rear and thumped him on his leg. Then, like a kid goat, he quickly turned, and with his horns he put his head against my body, but very carefully. Seeing this, Srila Guru Maharaja said, "Oh, he will not attack you?" And I reassured him that he would not. Again I did it many times. Srila Guru Maharaja watched and was surprised to see that each time the buffalo appeared to be quickly going to attack I would raise my arm slightly and he would put his horns carefully there by my side in a playing way. Srila Guru Maharaja was surprised to see that such a strong 'red-eyed buffalo' of whom everyone was fearful, was playing with me.

That buffaloes name was Ramdas. The other buffalo was called Syamdas. When Syamdas died, I purchased another, named Haridas. They were very strong and they ploughed the field, pulled carts, etc. End Quote....

 

 

Nityananda Prabu's mercy comes in many ways, and today was very special. I feel warmed and light after reading this small story of the 'red-eyed buffaloes'. You see...Nitai's mercy is endless. Nitai-Gaurahari bol.

More harmony for the great ful.quote by sridas

Prabhu may I humbly ask you, what this post header means? So that I may understand the purport.

So sacrifice, dedication in its highest degree, will be of such nature that it can accommodate and tolerate all difference. Therefore by tolerance, harmony will increase. The highest type of harmony can tolerate any type of opposition, it is all-accommodating. words of HH BR Sridhara Maharaja quoted by Sridas

And thanks for the post. Such dedication to the centre. And the wondeful thing is Srila Sridhara Maharaja practiced what he preached. A true saint.

Only if we could realize such things, in heart, thought, and deed. That will be an awesome day. It's funny isn't...we read such things and feel bliss. And relish how all diversity has it's place (absolute and relative).

But when someone steps on our toes...look out!

Receiving even slight help he will feel, "Yes, I am very thankful for your guidance."

We are to learn the theory and science of gratitude. "I am to be grateful to you and to everyone in the environment," the very domain is of that character. quoted by sridas from the words of HH BR Sridhara Maharaja

Thanks for posting this article Sridas. Srila Sridhara Maharaja's words are wonderful and perfect.

I especially appreciate how he says Krsna consciousness is not stagnant, but is a science based on relationship and diversity. And entry into that atmosphere is possible with a heart full of gratitude. That we have to learn the theory and science of gratitude.

Some years ago a young missionary used to come and visit me regularly. We used to pray together. He was a nineteen year old gentleman. 'Constantly' in his prayers he used the words..."I am so grateful Lord".

I used to listen to his grateful heart and be enchanted with his humility. This young man's association was something very special. I often think of him.

Jaya gHari! Thanks for this very nice report and multi-media.

My best friend where I live (the only other Hare Krsna devotee in town), has been practicing Krsna consciousness in association with Iskcon for thirty years this year. I asked her one time what it was like to meet Srila Prabhupada. She said she was just a bundle of nerves:).

Well anyway, she is now retiring from grhastha life and is moving moving into an Iskcon ashrama at the end of next month. I am overjoyed for her, and grateful for her friendship and faithfullness over the last five years. I will miss her heaps.

Why am I sharing all this? Because I live some hours away from devotees and association for me is very minimal. Due to various reasons I do not get to go to the city very much. So, what you have posted here...the story and the multi-media is like pure nectar. Thank you Gary.

So you have to realize that whether the argument is how to serve better Lord Chaitannya Mohaprabhu or something related to material nature. If material nature defeat that argument with your whole strength. Vaisanava never gets defeated in Philosophy since it is related to Supreme Personality of Godhead. quote by Srimanta

That's a great realization, Prabhu.

from Caitanya-Bhagavata Madhya-khanda chapter 6

 

Advaita Acarya Prabhu then ran to Lord Caitanya's side. Seeing Lord Nityananda, He buckled His eyebrows, and Nityananda began to laugh. Advaita Acarya Prabhu said, "It is wonderful that you are here Nitai. For a long time, I have seen no trace of you. Now, if you try to go anywhere, I will tie you up." Sometimes, Advaita addressed Nityananda as 'Prabhu' and sometimes as 'drunkard'.......Only the most fortunate can understand that in this incarnation Nityananda Prabhu and Advaita Acarya Prabhu are non-different. In the course of Their pastimes, whatever argument, or differences They had between Themselves are all the inconceivable and transcendental behaviour of the Supreme Lord.

Inconceivable. We are surrendering to a God who is truly wonderful.

May Lords Nityananda and Gauranga remove all trace of offences from the heart....so we can become truly happy and dance together in joy, relishing the bliss of transcendental relationship.

[Note to self: take your writings to heart too, my friend. If guru moves your fingers, then the eyes, mind and heart must respect their service]quote by gHari

That is so very beautiful gHari. So beautiful!

differences of opinion exist even among the topmost gopis. if we all thought the same, why would Shyam like it?

 

what counts is true service and devotion. who cares if we disagree even on siddhanta? quote by Kulapavana

This is how I feel also. Difference of opinion exists among the gopis,( )why would Shyam like it? In our heart of hearts, we know why Prabhu.

Personally my teachers approach is somewhat unique and different, and other other Gaudiya's tend to disagree with the siddhanta in some areas. A couple of years ago this was such an issue for me, considering my spiritual qualification (a young one).

But by following instructions my heart began to awaken to spiritual feelings and faith as never before (steadiness). Similar feelings and taste (devotion) as other (gaudiya) devotees were experiencing. The path to love of Godhead slowly awakening. I find it very interesting to see the subtle differences and moods of different Guru's and their spiritual children. Especially reading their writings. The Gaudiya tradition will surely grow and grow for many centuries to come, I am sure.

So I really appreciate alot of your perspective on things Kulapavana.

The main teaching that has been pressed home to me over the last few years is to be very careful about blaspheming a devotee. It is ironic though isn't it....the magnanimous advanced devotee never considers offence! His heart is completely generous and he even wishes never to disturb the mind of any living entity. A true friend of the fallen.

In a higher sense I feel, that the advanced devotee, because of spiritual vision, never takes offence. But if my critical mind wishes to offend another (which is it's conditioned tendency), really I am offending myself as the Lord resides in the heart. And am responsible for the consequent reaction.

Caitanya Bhagavata Madhya-khanda chapter 5

 

Text 137

All the Vaishnavas are eternally pure and full of transcendental knowledge. Sometimes you may see that they disagree about some point. There disagreements are only their pastimes.

Text 138

Persons who do not understand this find that their intelligence becomes destroyed. Persons who praise one Vaishnava and criticize another perish.

Text 139

This is described in the following words of Sri Narada Purana:

 

abhyarcayitva pratimasu vishnum

nindan jane sarva-gatam tam eva

abhyarcya padau hi dvijasya murdhni

druhyann ivajno narakam prayati

 

"A fool who worships the Deity of Lord Vishnu but blasphemes the Supersoul present in all beings, or who worships the feet of a brahmana, but then attacks the brahmana's head, goes to hell."

 

Text 140

Therefore, you should stay far away from persons whose talk harms the Vaishnavas and from persons who givepain to ordinary living entities.

Text 141

A person who gives pain to other living beings and then worships Lord Vishnu, worships in vain. In death he suffers.

Text 142

A person attached to material things may, unaware that Lord Vishnu is the Supersoul present in everyone's heart, still worship Lord Vishnu.

Text 143

On the one hand he washes a brahmana's feet, and on the other hand he kicks the brahmana's head.

Text 144

How can such a person attain auspiciousness for even a moment? What will become of him? Please think about this in your heart.

Text 145

Blaspheming a Vaishnava is a hundred times more sinful than harming an ordinary living being.

Text 146

A person who faithfully worships the Deity of the Lord, but then neither respects the devotees nor shows mercy to the fallen conditioned souls is a degraded fool.

Text 147

Such a person worships one incarnation of the Lord but does not worship the other incarnations. He thinks that Lord Krishna and Lord Ramacandra are different persons.

Text 148

The scriptures affirm that a devotee who has no love and devotion for Lord Balarama is the lowest of devotees.

Text 149

This is described in the following words of Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.2.47):

 

arcayam eva haraye

pujam yah sraddhayehate

na tad-bhakteshu canyeshu

sa bhaktah prakritah smritah

 

"A prakrta or materialistic devotee does not purposefully study the sastra and try to understand the actual standard of pure devotional service. Consequently he does not show proper respect to advanced devotees. He may, however, follow the regulative principles learned from his spiritual master or from his family who worships the Deity. He is to be considered on the material platform, although he is trying to advance in devotional service. Such a person is a bhakta-praya (neophyte devotee), or bhaktabhasa, for he is a little enlightened by Vaishnava philosophy."*

 

Caitanya-Bhagavata Madhya-khanda

Translation by Sarvabhavana dasa pg 295-296

 

Spoken by Vrindavan Dasa Thakura...

The Vaisnava devotees of the Lord are eternally pure and realized souls. Sometimes there are differences of opinion amongst them, which might appear like arguments. However, in fact, there is an amazing relationship between devotees. Foolish rascals, who do not understand this exchange, praise one Vaisnava and denounce the other. Such a mentality will lead to destruction of faith and knowledge.......Such foolish persons do not know what is most beneficial for them. To criticize a Vaisnava devotee is a thousand times more sinful than offending an ordinary living entity.

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mercy and distribution of love of Godhead is overwhelmingly unlimited. But he considers it a grave sin to criticize His devotees, especially criticism of Nityananda Prabhu.

In dealing with devotees, I would hope to be able keep the above verses constantly in the forefront of my mind, and raise myself above the neophyte devotee stage. To be able to appreciate the transcendental relationship of devotees, even with apparent differences of opinion.

[attach]1295[/attach]

"I'm just crazy, not stupid."

You know...one of the real pleasures of taking up spiritual life is that this false ego thing gradually starts to lose it's grip. We can begin to laugh at ourselves and our carry on.

Words: Human/humour. The great cure-all!

Bhagavad Gita 6:41

The unsuccessful yogi, after many, many years of enjoyment on the planets of the pious living entities, is born into a family of righteous people, or into a family of rich aristocracy.

Purport

The unsuccessful yogis are divided into two classes: one is fallen after very little progress, and one is fallen after long practice of yoga. The yogi who falls after a short period of practice goes to the higher planets, where pious living entities are allowed to enter. After prolonged life there, one is sent back again to this planet, to take birth in the family of a righteous brahmana vaisnava or of aristocratic merchants.

The real purpose of yoga practice is to achieve the highest perfection of Krsna consciousness, as explained in the last verse of this chapter. But those who do not persevere to such an extent and who fail because of material allurements are allowed, by the grace of the Lord, to make full utilization of their material propensities. And after that, they are given opportunities to live prosperous lives in righteous or aristocratic families. Those who are born in such families may take advantage of the facilities and try to elevate themselves to full Krsna consciousness.

29 July 1969

"The boys and girls of America are generally GOOD SOULS, that is why they have taken birth in SUCH A NICE COUNTRY." Prabhupada quoted by guest

Maybe Srila Prabhupada had this section of the Gita in mind when making this quote.

Once I was talking to a young friend of mine from Mumbai. I was despondent about living in the west and not having association of any devotees in a Hare Krsna sense.

His response was why? You have so much good oppurtunity to practice bhakti-yoga? Then he listed many reasons why.

His chastisement was much needed at the time.

Yes Kulupavana. Srila Prabhupada in the following verse is calling us to apply good intelligence in preaching. Actually such skill in preaching as mentioned below is a sign of an Acarya. Prabhupada in another commentary in his Bhagavatam purports says, "an Acarya does not have to conform to a stereotype."

Srimad Bhagavatam Canto One verse five.

TRANSLATION

The Supreme Lord is unlimited. Only a very expert personality, retired from the activities of material happiness, deserves to understand this knowledge of spiritual values. Therefore those who are not so well situated, due to material attachment, should be shown the ways of transcendental realization, by Your Goodness, through descriptions of the transcendental activities of the Supreme Lord.

PURPORT

Theological science is a difficult subject, especially when it deals with the transcendental nature of God. It is not a subject matter to be understood by persons who are too much attached to material activities. Only the very expert, who have almost retired from materialistic activities by culture of spiritual knowledge, can be admitted to the study of this great science. In the Bhagavad-gita it is clearly stated that out of many hundreds and thousands of men only one person deserves to enter into transcendental realization. And out of many thousands of such transcendentally realized persons, only a few can understand the theological science specifically dealing with God as a person. Sri Vyasadeva is therefore advised by Narada to describe the science of God directly by relating His transcendental activities. Vyasadeva is himself a personality expert in this science, and he is unattached to material enjoyment. Therefore he is the right person to describe it, and Sukadeva Goswami, the son of Vyasadeva, is the right person to receive it.

Srimad-Bhagavatam is the topmost theological science, and therefore it can react on the laymen as medicinal doses. Because it contains the transcendental activities of the Lord, there is no difference between the Lord and the literature. The literature is the factual literary incarnation of the Lord. So the laymen can hear the narration of the activities of the Lord. Thereby they are able to associate with the Lord and thus gradually become purified from material diseases. The expert devotees also can discover novel ways and means to convert the nondevotees in terms of particular time and circumstance. Devotional service is dynamic activity, and the expert devotees can find out competent means to inject it into the dull brains of the materialistic population. Such transcendental activities of the devotees for the service of the Lord can bring a new order of life to the foolish society of materialistic men. Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His subsequent followers exhibited expert dexterity in this connection. By following the same method, one can bring the materialistic men of this age of quarrel into order for peaceful life and transcendental realization.

SB 1.5.17

Krsna consciousness is not stagnant, so I feel it would be no offence to Srila Prabhupada to be wiser in using his comments as such which started this thread. Actually I feel it would be service to him. Time, place, and circumstance. The message is still the same, but inject into the masses consciousness in a way suitable for the audience.

In fact, why do we go on the defense and attack some posters, if they do not want to chew such statements as 'western culture is abominable'? Our position as preachers is to guide the innocent away from total absorption in material life, so that they may be qualified to understand the transcendental reality. Not to turn them away or turn them off.