nimbo pani

Once again, "Theist, the mind-reader." Theist, I can assure you that you are mistaken, and I find it offensive that you continue to propagate this misconception whenever Puru prabhu posts. He studies the works of many different Acaryas and Sadhus. He enjoys discussing siddhanta. Please allow him to do this without your constant barking that he has some agenda to promote or that he's only here to "tout" (as you say) one of his siksa gurus.

Mark wrote: Mark then subsequently engaged in dialogue with Puru prabhu utilizing a not-so-witty, (for someone with a self-described "sharp intellect"), dreadful collage of sarcasm, insults, projection, hubris, falsehoods, false accusations, and other not-so-humble, not-so-courteous, not-so-respectful words and phrases: And speaking of strawmen and putting words into someone's mouth, Mark wrote:

Originally Posted by SishirSaha (quoted from Urmila dasi's article on Chakra): Reply by Syamarani dasi: For the full reply by Syamarani dasi to this and other attempts to discredit Srila Maharaja: http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET0206/ET08-7376.html

...Grief. No, it will be about your imperfect conception of Supersoul. Besides, I rarely read your posts anymore. However, if you're going to quote me and then misrepresent me, then most likely I will read and respond. Please... do not be delusional and think for one moment that I wish for you to "entertain" me. My goodness. And oh, btw, you are free to not read my posts anymore as well. I would very much prefer this. I am not here to engage in irrational conversation with judgemental people. Thus spaketh Theist. Which point? Oh never mind, don't bother. Beggar made a reply to you by saying "From another angle of vision the guru's body is purely spiritual", in reply to your stating that the Guru is not his body. You have yet to respond, let alone acknowledge him. Again, which point? I never addressed your point one way or another. I was making a point about the hearing vs reading controversy and how I would rather receive the mantra in writing than from a rascal "devotee" who was having an affair with my wife. If you hadn't been so hasty to pass judgement, perhaps we could have explored your issue further. But I see by your proclamation above that this is not to be explored further, that you have already realized the truth.

So you fancy yourself as a mindreader now. I fully understand exactly where you are coming from, whether you believe it or not. After reading your posts for several years, they have become all too repetitive and oh so predictable. Maybe instead of accusing me of being too simple to understand, why not examine your own heart (with the help of Supersoul) and try to determine if perhaps there is still something yet for you to learn. You come across as if you have a monopoly on the truth, on nearly every issue, and then you are condescending with those who disagree. You know, it is quite possible that we could have explored this topic further, but if you are going to pass judgement and come across as a know-it-all, then obviously this isn't conducive for further discussion. BTW, I was replying more to Kulapavana prabhu's post than I was to yours. Had you been just a little patient, I would probably have addressed your post directly.

Being that there are a lot of devotees who believe hearing and reading to be exactly the same, despite evidence to the contrary from Bhagavata prabhu, then why not simply have the mantra written on a piece of paper and hand a photocopy to the initiate for him to read. Engage the photocopier (yukta vairagya.) I would rather receive the mantra in that method rather than hear it from the mouth of a rascal TP who was engaging in illicit sex with my wife. Kinko's ki jaya!

I've made carrot pakoras once or twice (at home) and they were pretty yukky, 3rd class, compared to other veggies such as cauliflower and broccoli. I can see why that head pujari would consider it horse food. I had a similar experience once where my Temple President chastised me for preparing an offering with a fairly common garden vegetable (can't remember what it was, turnips maybe) and said it was "horse food." I actually can't think of too many uses for carrots. I sometimes use them in split pea soup or kichari, although even then, it's 2nd class at best. I was mainly thinking along the lines of using them for juicing, as a health tonic. Anyway, that is nice to hear that our Acaryas have granted this concession for westerners. In the Dhama, naturally one would need to be more strict, especially on Ekadasis and during the months of Caturmasya. Thankyou again for your pakka feedback on these matters.

Dandavats Puru prabhu, Thankyou for all the valuable info. Regarding carrots, I asked a very close sisya of Srila Narayana Maharaja about this, and he told me that this referred to carrots grown in India, that those carrots are reddish and different from the orange-colored carrots grown in the West. He told me that it was okay to eat western grown carrots. Something similar to what Stonehearted prabhu was saying about cows; that the benefits attributed to milk in ayurveda actually apply to the milk of zebus, not the European cows such as Holsteins, Guernseys, Brown Swiss, etc. I was just wondering about your take on this.

Hare Krsna gHari, Vaishnava dasa and Manjari dasi were from his first marriage. I knew them briefly at one time and if I had to guess their ages, it would be 34 and 32 respectively, give or take a year. I know very little about his post-Iskcon marriage or any kids since that time. I'm sure I could find out more if you like, although it might take a week or two. Yes, Bhagavan prabhu was a very special devotee during Srila Prabhupada's manifest pastimes. He had a true pioneer spirit, and was an excellent preacher. The first BTG I ever received, a few months before I joined the Movement, contained a photo on the inside cover with Srila Prabhupada walking down a path, and Bhagavan prabhu and a few other devotees behind him, walking single file. I recall that this photo really struck me at the time.

Hello gHari, This is from a personal email I received from a devotee who lives in the Badger, California area, regarding Bhagavan prabhu: ***Every single year he comes for at least 2 or 3 days of the festival and each year gurudev is very kind and affectionate to him. He says that because he served Prabhupada so much therefore, "I like him." Last year he said that and everyone laughed. Gurudev always offers him a chair and calls him up to sit close. Last year bhagavan would not accept the chair but at least he is very respectful to gurudev. All of his kids and his ex-wife and her current husband are all followers of gurudev-the kids are diksha and the others are of course siksa.*** nb: I believe that his 2 kids, Manjari dasi and Vaishnava dasa are in their early 30's now.

Dear Trying, I believe I understand the dilemma which you are trying to express: that due to your regular and fairly extensive association with your Gurudeva, and even becoming somewhat "familiar", you wish to clarify the proper etiquette. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) Your situation is somewhat unique, as most of us probably have not had that kind of close, daily interraction with our Spiritual Masters. The tendency to become familiar is probably fairly common amongst those who are or who have been in your situation. How to maintain a mood of awe and reverence? Most likely it is easier said than done. However, praying, (as you mentioned), and especially reciting prayers from previous Acharyas (recommended in NOD) such as Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur and Srila Narottama das Thakur will surely help. There are some sweet songs devoted towards internalizing one's faith in Sri Guru, as well as towards Sri Nityananda Prabhu. As you know, the Guru is a manifestation of Nityananda Prabhu's causeless mercy and compassion. Remembering your devotional mood of awe and reverence for Lord Nityananda, you can transfer that same mood towards your Gurudeva and overcome these feelings of familiarity. Sometimes the tendency may exist whereby we overcompensate our feelings of familiarity by overglorifying (externally) our Gurudeva while in his physical presence. However, he knows our hearts, which is why it is more important to internalize our moods. Then, when we offer obeisances and say "Jai Srila Gurudeva", it will be genuine, and the Guru will surely sense what is heartfelt and what is not.

It sounds as though you have a fairly close relationship with your Guru, being that you are able to speak with him regularly. I would think that you could offer your obeisances to him when you see him, and when you arise, with hands folded, say something simple like "Jai Srila Gurudeva". And perhaps upon leaving his darshan, say something like "You are an ocean of mercy." I wouldn't think that it would be necessary to overdo it, as his time is most likely limited and he would probably rather preach and interract with other devotees as well. If he visits your home, or on special days like Guru Puja, then those are times when you may glorify your Guru further, expressing your gratitude and appreciation, along with offering flowers at his lotus feet, and perhaps bathing his lotus feet. I doubt that he's expecting personal lavish praise on a daily basis. When one chants the mangal arotika prayers, as well as Gayatri mantra and other prayers, this is also a form of offering respects to one's Gurudeva. As long as he knows that you respect him, he's probably far more interested that you perform your daily sadhana and service to the best of your abilities. Hope this helps somewhat.

One could easily conclude that you are the one engaging in "propaganda." In fact, that is exactly the way I take it. I have read Srila Sridhara Maharaja's books several times, and his mood was that of "harmonizing." You obviously do not share this mood. Judging by your disrespectful, (if not down-right inimical) tone, I seriously doubt that any answer (or refutation) would meet your approval.

It is one thing to debate controversial issues. Yet another to engage in smear tactics to win your argument. That was totally unecessary. How does this in any way, shape, or form encourage lively, healthy discussion amongst Vaishnavas? Paraphrasing an (alleged) account from an anonymous source, (3rd hand? 5th hand?), taken out of context (assuming there WAS any context), and supposedly "verified" by RSwarupa and Prthu, both of whom have dark histories of engaging in smear tactics against "Gaudiya Math" Vaishnavas, and have even been caught lying, lends them (and their story) zero credibility as far as I'm concerned. What are you trying to do, Krsna das, instigate wars between Vaishnava groups? During the 80's, I knew a (well-known) devotee who worked himself into a violent rage when he repeated, out of context, something that Srila Sridhara Maharaja had said. He threatened physical violence towards a great saint. And all because of what: hearsay, quotes taken out of context, unwillingness to understand and bridge the gaps... Srila Narayana Maharaja would never say anything like that. He would never try to break one's faith in Srila Prabhupada. He uses Srila Prabhupada's books to give classes. He considers Srila Prabhupada his Siksa Guru. He already has a few thousand disciples. Does anyone really believe that he is so "desparate" to make another disciple that he would grab someone's arm and try to break someone's faith in Srila Prabhupada? That is simply outrageous. The people who propagate such malarky are offenders extraordinaire. And here I thought that relations amongst the various sangas were improving. As long as dishonesty prevails, (and we know what Mother Bhumi has to say about that), there will never be harmony amongst Vaishnava groups. How sad. Vaishnavas are so rare. And if we can't get along with one another despite relative differences, then what chance do we have of spreading the Sankirtan Movement in a big way, as Srila Prabhupada had hoped.

gHari prabhu, please don't take this that I'm trying to give you a hard time. I'm just curious about some of your above statements. In regards to Satsvarupa M., do you feel that he is still qualified to edit, given his rather long history of illness which has required psychotropics and an avoidance-behaviour pattern regarding devotees? I don't mean this as a criticism of Maharaja, I'm sure he's still a very sincere devotee, I just wonder if Srila Prabhupada's instruction was intended for the time at hand, or for the duration of Maharaja's life. Also, in regards to critics always being wrong, which you later stated was not only for the editing issue, it should probably be mentioned that Jayadvaita Maharaja himself has been a critic. We've all been critics at one time or another. We'd still have a Zonal Acharya system were it not for Jayadvaita Swami and many of his godbrothers. I'm not suggesting that one criticize for criticism's sake. Clearly, some people overdo it. At the same time, positive change will never be realized without someone stepping forward as a critic. Maybe it's not just the critics who are "tearing Prabhupada's army apart." Perhaps the "status quo" folks, along with the critics, and the critics of the critics, are all to blame to some degree or another. It depends upon the issue or challenge at hand, I would guess. Again, no offense intended. I normally enjoy your posts. I was simply curious as to some of your comments.

That is an interesting point which I hadn't considered. I'm definitely open to that possibility. If true, then what are we to conclude? Perhaps he did commit suicide, but the factual details of this account were doctored up? I vaguely remember that we were told that Srila Prabhupada had said that "Vishnujana is hiding." I can't remember the timeline on this, whether he said this before or after he said "He should not have done this." (Suicide.) I consider it highly doubtful that he is still alive. I mean, it's been 30 years now. Surely he would have surfaced by now and contacted devotees during this time, whether in Iskcon or in some other Vaishnava association. Maybe TKG knew more than he was telling? I guess we'll never know for sure. During that era, most word-of-mouth info from GBC members was accepted as gospel. And during that time, I recall many of the members of the Radha Damodara TSKP saying that TKG was "GBC of the world." (Perhaps this was just a preaching tactic for recruiting brahmacaris from the Temples which the busses were visiting.)

Thankyou Suchandra prabhu. This account of his disappearance is exactly as I had remembered it. Ironically, I had the good fortune of his association just a month or two before he left for Mayapura. He was in the U.S. at the time. The Radha Damodara busses were doing heavy book distribution, and Maharaja would often stay back and serve the book distributors by being "on call" at the telephone, whenever any devotees were in "maya" or simply needing encouragement. (He would also cook a daily feast for them, for when they returned in the evening.) I recall one instance when the phone rang for Maharaja, and he promptly brought his harmonium to the phone and began to sing an absolutely beautiful bhajana (I think it was "Chintamani") over the phone, which could be heard throughout the Temple. About 9 or 10 years later, I mentioned this to a devotee who used to be on that party, (Damodara dasa), and we were both amazed, as he said that it was he who had phoned Maharaja and became enlivened upon hearing that sweet bhajana over the phone. What a great soul Vishnujana Maharaja was. I mean, how many of us would actually consider, let alone, commit suicide over a falldown. And a relatively minor falldown at that (simply speaking for 1 hour with his ex-wife, which was forbidden being that he was a sannyasi.) I have other sweet memories of Maharaja, as he was the first sannyasi I met when I joined the Movement. He was genuinely advanced. One could feel the ecstasy when he performed harinama on the streets, on college campuses, (with Hasyagrami and MahaMantra prabhus), as well as his blissful kirtans in the Temples. A special, special devotee.

I am in no way trying to discourage the original poster. Mystic perfections may indeed be attained by worshipping Sri Krsna via a bona fide Guru. However, be forewarned: when one develops prema for Lord Sri Krsna, those mystic siddhis will seem rather insignificant in comparison to the ecstasy of serving Krsna's lotus feet. The example of Dhruva Maharaja is there: he told his Guru, Sri Narada Muni: "I want to have the darsana of Sri Hari and I want to be the emperor of this whole world." When his desire was fulfilled, he wept, saying: "What I was desiring for was simply useless. I was looking for a broken piece of glass, and what I had achieved was - a diamond."

Lord Krsna speaks on mystical perfections, from Srimad Bhagavatam, 11th Canto: SB 11.15.1: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Uddhava, the mystic perfections of yoga are acquired by a yogi who has conquered his senses, steadied his mind, conquered the breathing process and fixed his mind on Me. SB 11.15.2: Sri Uddhava said: My dear Lord Acyuta, by what process can mystic perfection be achieved, and what is the nature of such perfection? How many mystic perfections are there? Please explain these things to me. Indeed, You are the bestower of all mystic perfections. SB 11.15.3: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: The masters of the yoga system have declared that there are eighteen types of mystic perfection and meditation, of which eight are primary, having their shelter in Me, and ten are secondary, appearing from the material mode of goodness. SB 11.15.4-5: Among the eight primary mystic perfections, the three by which one transforms one's own body are anima, becoming smaller than the smallest; mahima, becoming greater than the greatest; and laghima, becoming lighter than the lightest. Through the perfection of prapti one acquires whatever one desires, and through prakamya-siddhi one experiences any enjoyable object, either in this world or the next. Through isita-siddhi one can manipulate the subpotencies of maya, and through the controlling potency called vasita-siddhi one is unimpeded by the three modes of nature. One who has acquired kamavasayita-siddhi can obtain anything from anywhere, to the highest possible limit. My dear gentle Uddhava, these eight mystic perfections are considered to be naturally existing and unexcelled within this world. SB 11.15.6-7: The ten secondary mystic perfections arising from the modes of nature are the powers of freeing oneself from hunger and thirst and other bodily disturbances, hearing and seeing things far away, moving the body at the speed of the mind, assuming any form one desires, entering the bodies of others, dying when one desires, witnessing the pastimes between the demigods and the celestial girls called Apsaras, completely executing one's determination and giving orders whose fulfillment is unimpeded. SB 11.15.8-9: The power to know past, present and future; tolerance of heat, cold and other dualities; knowing the minds of others; checking the influence of fire, sun, water, poison, and so on; and remaining unconquered by others -- these constitute five perfections of the mystic process of yoga and meditation. I am simply listing these here according to their names and characteristics. Now please learn from Me how specific mystic perfections arise from specific meditations and also of the particular processes involved. SB 11.15.10: One who worships Me in My atomic form pervading all subtle elements, fixing his mind on that alone, obtains the mystic perfection called anima. SB 11.15.11: One who absorbs his mind in the particular form of the mahat-tattva and thus meditates upon Me as the Supreme Soul of the total material existence achieves the mystic perfection called mahima. By further absorbing the mind in the situation of each individual element such as the sky, air, fire, and so on, one progressively acquires the greatness of each material element. SB 11.15.12: I exist within everything, and I am therefore the essence of the atomic constituents of material elements. By attaching his mind to Me in this form, the yogi may achieve the perfection called laghima, by which he realizes the subtle atomic substance of time. SB 11.15.13: Fixing his mind completely in Me within the element of false ego generated from the mode of goodness, the yogi obtains the power of mystic acquisition, by which he becomes the proprietor of the senses of all living entities. He obtains such perfection because his mind is absorbed in Me. SB 11.15.14: One who concentrates all mental activities in Me as the Supersoul of that phase of the mahat-tattva which manifests the chain of fruitive activities obtains from Me, whose appearance is beyond material perception, the most excellent mystic perfection called prakamya. SB 11.15.15: One who places his consciousness on Vishnu, the Supersoul, the prime mover and Supreme Lord of the external energy consisting of three modes, obtains the mystic perfection of controlling other conditioned souls, their material bodies and their bodily designations. SB 11.15.16: The yogi who places his mind in My form of Narayana, known as the fourth factor, full of all opulences, becomes endowed with My nature and thus obtains the mystic perfection called vasita. SB 11.15.17: One who fixes his pure mind on Me in My manifestation as the impersonal Brahman obtains the greatest happiness, wherein all his desires are completely fulfilled. SB 11.15.18: A human being who concentrates on Me as the upholder of religious principles, the personification of purity and the Lord of Svetadvipa obtains the pure existence in which he is freed from the six waves of material disturbance, namely hunger, thirst, decay, death, grief and illusion. SB 11.15.19: That purified living entity who fixes his mind on the extraordinary sound vibrations occurring within Me as the personified sky and total life air is then able to perceive within the sky the speaking of all living entities. SB 11.15.20: Merging one's sight into the sun planet and then the sun planet into one's eyes, one should meditate on Me as existing within the combination of sun and vision; thus one acquires the power to see any distant thing. SB 11.15.21: The yogi who completely absorbs his mind in Me, and who then makes use of the wind that follows the mind to absorb the material body in Me, obtains through the potency of meditation on Me the mystic perfection by which his body immediately follows his mind wherever it goes. SB 11.15.22: When the yogi, applying his mind in a certain way, desires to assume a particular form, that very form immediately appears. Such perfection is possible by absorbing the mind in the shelter of My inconceivable mystic potency, by which I assume innumerable forms. SB 11.15.23: When a perfect yogi desires to enter another's body, he should meditate upon himself within the other body, and then, giving up his own gross body, he should enter the other's body through the pathways of air, as easily as a bee leaves one flower and flies into another. SB 11.15.24: The yogi who has achieved the mystic perfection called svacchanda-mrityu blocks the anus with the heel of the foot and then lifts the soul from the heart to the chest, to the neck and finally to the head. Situated within the brahma-randhra, the yogi then gives up his material body and guides the spirit soul to the selected destination. SB 11.15.25: The yogi who desires to enjoy in the pleasure gardens of the demigods should meditate on the purified mode of goodness, which is situated within Me, and then the heavenly women, generated from the mode of goodness, will approach him in airplanes. SB 11.15.26: A yogi who has faith in Me, absorbing his mind in Me and knowing that My purpose is always fulfilled, will always achieve his purpose by the very means he has determined to follow. SB 11.15.27: A person who perfectly meditates on Me acquires My nature of being the supreme ruler and controller. His order, like Mine, can never be frustrated by any means. SB 11.15.28: A yogi who has purified his existence by devotion to Me and who thus expertly knows the process of meditation obtains knowledge of past, present and future. He can therefore see the birth and death of himself and others. SB 11.15.29: Just as the bodies of aquatics cannot be injured by water, similarly, the body of a yogi whose consciousness is pacified by devotion to Me and who is fully developed in yoga science cannot be injured by fire, sun, water, poison, and so forth. SB 11.15.30: My devotee becomes unconquerable by meditating on My opulent incarnations, which are decorated with Srivatsa and various weapons and are endowed with imperial paraphernalia such as flags, ornamental umbrellas and fans. SB 11.15.31: A learned devotee who worships Me through yoga meditation certainly obtains in all respects the mystic perfections that I have described. SB 11.15.32: For a sage who has conquered his senses, breathing and mind, who is self-controlled and always absorbed in meditation on Me, what mystic perfection could possibly be difficult to achieve? SB 11.15.33: Learned experts in devotional service state that the mystic perfections of yoga that I have mentioned are actually impediments and are a waste of time for one who is practicing the supreme yoga, by which one achieves all perfection in life directly from Me. SB 11.15.34: Whatever mystic perfections can be achieved by good birth, herbs, austerities and mantras can all be achieved by devotional service to Me; indeed, one cannot achieve the actual perfection of yoga by any other means. SB 11.15.35: My dear Uddhava, I am the cause, the protector and the Lord of all mystic perfections, of the yoga system, of analytic knowledge, of pure activity and of the community of learned Vedic teachers. SB 11.15.36: Just as the same material elements exist within and outside of all material bodies, similarly, I cannot be covered by anything else. I exist within everything as the Supersoul and outside of everything in My all-pervading feature. A parable, to put things in perspective: One man, he went out of his village and after ten years he came back. He advertised himself, "I have become successful in yoga practice." So naturally villagers surrounded him. "Oh you have? What yoga practice you have learnt?" they asked him. "I can walk on the water," he replied. "Oh? Let us see this!" So a big arrangement was made that he'll walk across the river, and then one old man came. He said, "Sir, it is very wonderful, but it is only two paise worth.Why is that?" the so-called yogi asked. "Now you will walk to the other side of the river. I will take a boat and pay the man two paise. I'll do the same thing, so what is your credit?" MORAL: Those who are actually intelligent men, they will see like that. "What actual profit have you made? You spend millions and millions of dollars, and you are bringing some rocks back from the moon."

The scripture would be Ayurveda. I haven't studied this scripture, so I can't really point you in the right direction. It's amazing how powerful our thoughts and emotions are, and the effects they have even on inanimate objects. If you're able to find out more during your research, please share with us. Thankyou. nimbo