Maitreya

Originally posted by jijaji:

 

 

 

Gaurachandra,

I think Bronner is a mystic universalist soap magi.It is hard to get a good read on the guy.I hear he is very suci. I will keep an eye out for pertinet info.None of his products contain rennet, I know that.And one should always dilute[though I never do].

MC

I know he likes to avoid the controversies and fly under the radar screen so to speak.They are somewhat isolated in that respect.But they concentrate on bringing new people into the kirtana-rasa, which is a good thing.Perhaps the internet was just not considered productive.

I would like his students to be a little more reachable though.Months back I e-mailed Vina asking why nothing of Siddhasvarupa's lectuures or the like appeared on Vina.No reply.I was disappointed as it seemed real impersonal.At least they could have responded telling me it was none of my business.

MC

Paul Bragg.What an interesting guy.He used to come in to Govinda's in Hawaii in 77.He would eat the sugarladen cookies.But he kept pretty strict usually.He liked Prasadam and would take a plate when there was distribution in Waikiki Beach.

When I saw him he was 98 yrs and look 60.He basically lived a life of veggie food and lots of fasting.One day a week without fail.Keep the cells clean and detoxified and the body will be healthy was his approach.He also advocated earning each meal through excercise.

Part of his protocol was Apple Cider Vinegar,aged in wood.He claimed it kept the joints clear of acid crystal build up.

Cool guy that Bragg.

Thanks amanpeter, but I avoid reading their conclusons.

I have tried to follow the recent debates between Satyaraja and shvu however.

When I read of the character of Prahlada or any realized soul from the SB my appreciation for the nature of all devotees is enhanced, including Lord Jesus Christ.That will have to do for now.

Hare Krishna

Yes it might be just speculation.But Haridas was an expantion/incarnation of Brahma.So it is not an unreasonable thought if Christ is also the same.

Jagat,

"Word is" sounds like a prelude to rumor and gossip.

The sites did go down right after the passing

of Tusta Krishna das who was running VINA which became stagnant for a long time after that.

If they feared communication why the big involvement with WVA?

Also since other Vaisnava societies have many sites up how would his disciples closing their stop them from being exposed to Narayan or whoever?

Gossip is poison.

Originally posted by rand0M aXiS:

MC: Shhhhhhhhh, methinks shvu=darwin.

 

<h1>;^)</h1>

Oh now I get it.yeah maybe, jijaji possibly too, that wilely one. But it's okay, I just respond as they present.

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

Some of our recent acaryas had considered Christ as an avatara of Brahmaji who had a mission to preach Vaisnava-dharma in West at that time.

 

Srila Prabhupada[AC] said that Jesus Christ had prepared the Western world for the coming of Lord Jagannatha.

 

There are also many sastric evidences to support this thesis in both camps, smrtis and Bible. By reading St John Gospel we clearly understand that Jesus is the son of God (a jiva) who spread the verb (Vedas) and he should be considered as the incarnation of the verb (Vedas) who had assumed a fleshly form and had descended among us.

 

In the first chapter of John it is clear he is accepting Jesus as Brahmaji.Visarga [secondary]creator is described as Jesus.

 

 

Who is Brahmaji dearest son who is eternally spreading bhakti? Sri Narada Muni, of course. We can clearly observe Sri Narada's personality in St. John's writings.

 

Now that is an interest thought, new to me.Is it just a thought or have you heard such from your guru maharja?

 

 

He was foreseen Sri Caitanya avatara's advent. And many sincere followers of Jesus could witness his prevision, and some even had been personally in India during Sri Caitanya's lila as some Jesuits had reported.

 

Satyaraja, I would like to hear much more on this.In it very intriguing.Also what refernces?This is all very new to me.I believe Haridas Thakur was Christ.Just look at the parralels in their lives.Beaten in the market place.Freely gave up their lives.Came back from samadhi in the same form.And more.Some see him also as Prahlada.Interesting topic.

 

If we consider Jesus Christ under this perspective, as an avatara of Brahmaji, he may be respected as the head of our own sampradaya, and Gaudiya-vaisnavas are eternally linked with him.

 

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa

YS MC

[This message has been edited by Maitreya (edited 05-18-2001).]

shvu, Perhaps its because you know that the suffering is higher for the animals than the plants, although the plants do also contain consciousness.So we are placed in the awkward position of choosing the lesser of two wrongs.Of diets I think fruits and nuts offer the best in ahimsic choices.

Fortunately Krishna will accept our vegetarian offerings and we can turn the negative into a positive by learning to offer with love.

Material world means compromised position for the soul at every turn.

RandOM, I can't shhhhhh, I'm out of control. If you are refering to another topic on another thread, I agree, I wasn't thinking.No harm so far.

MC

Originally posted by shvu:

Believe it or not, I do. I don't see a difference at all.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

MC

My animal was eel. Denmark and grey.I have got to reread this.

jijaji,

Christ, Mary and Vishnu on the same altar is not rasabhasa.If it exactly fits with the Gaudiya system of worship might be another question, but in spirit it is exactly in tune to Bhaktivinodes vision.

From Vaisnavism, real and apparent:

VAISHNAVA

Real Vaishnavism: The word "Vaishnavism' indicates the normal eternal and natural condition, functions and devotional characteristics of all individual souls in relation to Vishnu, the Supreme, the all-pervading Soul.But an unnatural, unpleasant and regrettable sense has been attributed to the word making one understand by the word, Vaishnava[literally a pure and selfless worshipper of Vishnu] a human form with twelve peculiar signs[Tilak] and dress on, worshipping many gods under the gard of a particular God and hating any other human form who marks himself with different signs, puts on a different dress and worships a different God in a different way and designated by the words'Shaiva', 'Shakta', 'Ganapatya', 'Jaina', 'Buddhist',Mahomedan', 'Christian'etc.[snip]

As the srevice of the master is the fundemental funtion of the servamt,so the service of Vishnu is natural and inherent in jiva and it is called Vaisnvata or Vaishnavism and every jiva is a Vaisnava.

This is why I think it natural for Vishnu Jesus and Mary to be on the same altar.Of course the present so-called Christians will never do it,but some with a deeper vision just might.

MC

Originally posted by Jagat:

 

Iskcon and any other Vaishnava organization established in the West has to create viable lay communities. This can only be done by placing spiritual value on occupational duties. Iskcon has become a hollow shell in most major North American cities because it totally devalued people working according to their guna and karma and contributing the results of their labor to the service of Krishna. Preaching has been exclusively geared to renunciation, even for those who are not prepared for it.

 

 

Whether these things are important or not is another question.

This is what Siddhasvarupa has been doing for decades.Out of any group a few brahmins will emerge naturally.Most will be better off maintaining an occupation to support those brahmins in their teaching/preaching efforts.

So many people 'converting', so few understand the nature of the soul and its eternal occupation.It can be taking to such extremes.Like here is an example of how it could be done to someone without their consent.Fanatic Muslims 'converting'some poor person and then the fanatic Hindu society would see the victim as an outcaste.Can 'religion' be more superfical than this.

“The next time I see someone performing such sankirtana, I shall certainly chastise him by not only confiscating all his property but also converting him into a Muslim.”

PURPORT

To convert a Hindu into a Muslim was an easy affair in those days. If a Muslim simply sprinkled water on the body of a Hindu, it was supposed that the Hindu had already become a Muslim. During the transition of the British in Bangladesh during the last Hindu-Muslim riots, many Hindus were converted into Muslims by having cows’ flesh forcibly pushed into their mouths. Hindu society was so rigid at the time of Lord Caitanya that if a Hindu were converted into a Muslim, there was no chance of his being reformed. In this way the Muslim population in India increased. None of the Muslims came from outside; social customs somehow or other forced Hindus to become Muslims, with no chance of returning to Hindu society. Emperor Aurangzeb also inaugurated a tax that Hindus had to pay because of their being Hindus. Thus all the poor Hindus of the lower class voluntarily became Muslims to avoid the tax. In this way the Muslim population in India increased. Chand Kazi threatened to convert the people into Muslims by the simple process of sprinkling water on their bodies.

Ädi 17.128

[This message has been edited by Maitreya (edited 05-17-2001).]

jndas,

The system you refer to is called affirmitive action here.Sorry to hear India has followed along with this most stupid of social plans.It has caused many more problems and solved none.Here it is applied to minority races.To apply it to religious affiliation is even one step further down the path of confusion.

Some years back there was this movie made about a young white man who wanted to get into college but his grades were sub-standard.So he dyed his body black and curled his hair and adopted black urban speech, and of course was accepted into college inspite of his bad grades.

The thought of applying this to religion is just too insane.I imagine some might be buying big crosses to wear around their necks when they seek job or educational oppurtunities.

Maybe even reversable pictures on the wall.Durga on one side and Mother Mary on the other in case of inspections to see if the conversion is a true one.Durga when the relatives visit, Mary for the employers.

I would love to see at least one large and celbrated temple where Christ, Mary and Visnu/Krishna were worshiped side by side.This would show that to accept Christ one needn't reject Bhagavad-gita and Srimad Bhagavatam.Srila Prabhupada was fine with it here and I believe it to be in the spirit of Bhaktivinode Thakur.

Jaya Jesus Jaya Krishna

Now why would I think that this atma is presently in female form?

Thanks for the offer to post it jndas.I was able to find it though @ Krishna Culture ph# 800-829-2579.The price is $7.00 and they have 30 copies in stock.

Haribol

animesh, may hope was that the influence from contact with established religious forms would filter into the churchs worldwide and have an uplifting effect on Christian worship.

I have no doubt that you are correct to be suspicious of the leaders of these programs.They are sectarianists to be sure.

In the same way I think contact with Indian religious practice could benefit the Christian church by teaching offerings to God rather than just always thanking Him for what he has given to us,I fear that same contact could infect Christianity with Impersonalist idealogy.The Christian Bible doesnot give a very detailed look at the Person of the Godhead, and so I see them as vulnerable.Not just in India but everywhere.

Your next question, no I do not think the aim of the missionaries is much more then sentimental head counting.On some level they may mean well I suppose.But philosophically they are sure to cause needless discord.

I also know their motives fall short.But rather than oppose the establishing of worship of Mary and Christ, vaisnavas could just teach Vishnu-tattva along with it.In my dreams I would like to see vaisnavas open temples with murtis of Mary, Christ and Vishnu or Krishna and steal the thunder from the missionaries.As I say in my dreams.

Yes they will try to gradually try to extingush knowledge of the transmigrating soul and so many things.This is the danger.And they bring so much capital for schools and charity.They are dangerous in that respect.And of course they are dis-respectfull to others beliefs.

The story you told of the statues of Christ and Krishna reminded me of the communists coming into a poor township and asking everyone to pray to God for bread.No bread would come and then they would come in with trucks of bread and pass it out in the name of the communist party.

Sectarianists always cause trouble wherever they go it seems.

You are there seeing how it plays out.I don't have more than a distant spectators perspective.But in my own life I offer to Christ and Krishna but avoid the local Christians completely.So I understand how you feel.

Originally posted by animesh:

<Quote>Better the teachings of Christ than Buddhism or Impersonalism.</Quote>

 

Maitreya ji,

This statement can take the discussion out of topic.

What I mean is the teachings of Christ are devotional,whereas Buddhism and Impersonalism are not and therefore they are the real threat.

Originally posted by rand0M aXiS:

<h2>Monkey mystery baffles cops</h2>

 

Pramod Kumar Singh/New Delhi

The much hyped mystery 'Tarzan' theory appears to have been floated by

anti-national elements, says Delhi Police. This, say senior police officials, is

being done at the behest of the Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence (ISI).

 

Gorilla warfare?Sorry.

 

 

 

"It is an acute situational reaction of the sudden onset of hallucinations. A casual

cat, a monkey, a moving shadow of a tree or even a person's scream can trigger

off group panic and subsequent hallucinations", he added.

 

A "casual" cat.LOL

 

Any injury or scratch or wound inflicted on their body, craving pathologically for

attention could be taken as injuries caused by monkey-man.

 

These are cases of an extreme form of pathological lying, consisting of telling

stories without discernible or adequate motive. This state of mind is called

'pseudologia fantastica', Mr Edamaruku added.

 

I just love that high brow terminology;"pseudologia fantastica".

 

Anyone wanting to see some real monkey-men are invited to visit my neighborhood here in Berserkeley Ca.

 

Night must have just passed in Dehli.I wonder if monkey-man returned.

 

 

I just saw a news report on hynovision[tv]that New Dehli is being plaqued by a half-man half monkey.People are being attacked, they showed bite wounds and arms length scratches.It is reported to be about 4 ft. tall.Attacks at night by jumping from roof to roof where most people are sleeping due to the scorching heat.

It chased a pregnant woman who fell to her death.

Any forum readers from Delhi?

What is up with this?

[This message has been edited by Maitreya (edited 05-16-2001).]

Thanks for the tips prabhus.Mosquitos.I know citronela works and nets of course.The fact that they wait for lurking in the showers is rather distressing.I didn't know they were that organized and clever.jndas, why do I have to feed them?Is it true they are especially fond of tourist blood?

In Hawaii I noticed that they wouldn't bother me when I was consuming large amounts of brewers yeast.I think it may have been due to the vit b-12.Any experience with b-12 to keep them at bay.Can I get nets and citronela oil in Vrndaban?I would think so.I want to travel as light as possible.

Who will tell some stories of their travels?Adventures and mis-adventures in the Holy Land.Who did you meet there?Been blessed? Been robbed?Tell it all.

MC

amanpeter,

No I haven't read the book, but will.Everytime I try o learn something from this topic the discussion turns to bitter conflict making learning an impossibility.

I going the Braja to try and find some renewed inspiration.If I pick up something there that relates I'll express it but there are already better sources from the more learned.Although we in the laity have eyes and ears as well so Krishna may show me something.

I think I have seen this book in Krishna Cultures catalog, and will order today if it's there.

Hare Krishna

Prabhu

Myself, I like the idea that they are offering incense and garlands to Mary and Jesus.I hope that will spread to Christians world wide.But they also need to add Vishnu-tattva and not keep the Supreme Father and Friend of all so behind the scenes.

The real danger is that impersonalism becomes dragged into the mix.That I see happening here in the USA.

There may lay a great oppurtunity for Indian Vaisnavas.Those newly 'converted'Christians maybe persuaded to add Vishnu to their worship along with Christ and Mary.

Afterall Srila Prabhupada stated that Mary is representitive of Radharani so for her to be garlanded is more than proper.Same with Christ as a Saktyavesa Avatar.They just must add Vishnu more directly.

The preachers themselves may be the last to catch on but the indigenous population would not be hard to convince perhaps.

"Yes worship the Son and Mother, but why neglect the Father" is a question we could put to them.

We can't and should not stop a free flow of ideas.Nothing will be gained if there is some war between the Christian fanatics and the Hindu fanatics.

Better the teachings of Christ than Buddhism or Impersonalism.If one reads the Book of John it is clearly acintyabhedabheda.

Jaya Jaya Yoshua Jaya Jaya Krishna

[This message has been edited by Maitreya (edited 05-16-2001).]