gHari

Naradadeva, You seem not to mind that Krsna is referred to as a myth. I'm not too sure that your master, His divine grace Prabhupada swami would find such toleration commendable. But maybe he would. All glories to His divine grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Thakura and his wonderful compassion for fallen souls! You would enjoy reading the story of Gajendra the elephant. It is best read out loud. It shows the special compassion of God that is available to us all. Perhaps I can post it for you if you can't locate it on the net. gHari ------------------ Gary Stevason Seeking the Kingdom of God

Isn't this scientology? Alpha waves and all that stuff? Clearly a possible explanation is that perhaps the brain normally, out of tension or fear, generates high levels of activity to be able to respond quickly to threatening situations or even cope with the death thing, the survival thing, and all those other things that we feel so dependent upon. Such fears are alleviated by remembering Krsna. The calmness is therefore a by-product of the 'religious experience', not the cause of it.

In the earlier discussion of beauty was it mentioned that beauty is one of the opulences that can result from a 'good birth' after good karma just like wealth, intelligence and other qualities possessed by Sri Krsna? Perhaps this is Krsna's mercy for attracting people to higher conscious persons. I used to say that I could sit and look at her all night long. I guess I was just a junkie for the beauty drug. There was a devotee in the Toronto Temple who was soooooooooo beautiful, I could hardly look at her for fear of becoming totally mesmerized and to be found staring at another's wife. Literally awe-inspiring beautiful. She ended up leaving her husband for the temple president who I guess was just as mesmerized, and they disappeared to live happily ever after. Never saw her since, but he shows up at Ratha Yatra with his hippy pony tail wailing on his mrdanga. Devotee women are so very special. One mother pujari touched my arm where the muscles had been overworked carrying Lord Jagannatha down from the cart. She held it exactly where the pain was, at the bend in the arm. I had never felt anything so very gentle before - the muscle tension immediately disappeared. I have no doubt that on sankirtana countless Prabhupada books found new hands solely because the devotee was a beautiful lady. By hook or by crook - or perhaps by Lord Caitanya' arrnagement.

I encountered a character who "met the Krishnas" in the seventies. He remembered the wonderful food, but said that when they explained he would have to give up sex, he never came back. I told him that he should have listened a little bit longer because after Krsna asked him to give Him six cents, He promised to give him all the money in the world in return. Had he only listened a little further. Many can give four or five cents, but for some like the jnanis that last shiny penny is so difficult to part with; and the sex mongers chained to eros will die with that dirty little penny tightly clenched in their fists. How much can you part with?

This raises the question: are all Phillipinos psychotic or do we just have one lonely very sick puppy on our hands here?

To the trinity of net-kooks here: You are obviously too dull to hear good advice. Saying that equating Sri Krsna to myth is not challenging only documents your insincerity and dullness. Your alter-egos may cut and paste from Hindu sites and try to fool us, but don't think for a moment that any of your nonsense has anything to do with Christ or the Holy Spirit. Grow up and get serious about your life. Being a follower of Christ is more than just professing it. A tree shall be known by its fruits.

You are obviously too dull to hear good advice. Saying that equating Sri Krsna to myth is not challenging only documents your insincerity and dullness. Your alter-egos may cut and paste from Hindu sites and try to fool us, but don't think for a moment that any of your nonsense has anything to do with Christ or the Holy Spirit. Grow up and get serious about your life. Being a follower of Christ is more than just professing it. A tree shall be known by its fruits.

I found this interesting story HERE: <blockquote>Sri Kamakhya Carana asked, "Repeatedly chanting the name of Hari, I often have the feeling that soon I will obtain darsana of Bhagavan, but as soon as the thought arises that I will leave my loved ones, I become afraid and I cease chanting. By what method can I continue to chant at such moments?" Although the question lacked intelligence and depth, Srila Gurudeva endeavored to explain with the help of an example. He replied, "Some ducks were swimming in a pond which was foul and stagnant. With great glee they were living by eating snails, worms, prawns, etc., in that putrid environment. One day, they saw their cousins flying overhead in the azure sky. They were in all respects, from feather to size, very beautiful. The ducks on the pond reasoned that the handsome appearance of their cousins was due to the fact that where their cousins soared was a better place than their own pond. Then they felt sorry for themselves, thinking that if they could only go to that place, they too would become as attractive as their cousins. However, the birds in the sky were actually swans who were returning to Manasa Sarovara from the sea. Seeing the forlorn expression of the ducks, one of the swans felt pity for them, and circled downwards. The ducks were filled with a sense of awe upon seeing this majestic creature more closely. They prayed to be taken to the swan's abode. The swan said that it was for this very reason that he had descended from above to take the ducks away from that unhealthy, foul place. The ducks, however, replied that they did not possess the strength to fly far and high. Full of compassion, the swan suggested to the ducks that they climb onto his back. Upon hearing this, the ducks conferred with one another and then asked the swan whether or not they would find snails and worms in their new place of residence. The swan replied that such low creatures are not to be found in the Himalayan Manasa Sarovara. In that place, they live by eating the lotus flower. Speaking in chorus, the ducks wanted to know how they would therefore survive there. Unanimously, they decided not to go. It was the petty attractions of the pond that held the ducks back. Analogously, it is the external gross creations of Maya and its attractions that act as barriers to our leaving this mundane world. Sri Bhagavan, uncontaminated by material attributes, is ever blissful and any place He is present becomes pure and sanctified. There is nothing in the place where He resides that is foul or temporary. Those who cling to the creations and manifestations of Maya can never reach the True Creator. Bhagavan and Maya are polar opposites. Man cannot become free from base desires without the help of sadhus: <blockquote> tato duhsangam utsrjya satsu sajjeta buddhiman santa evasya chindanti mano-vyasangam uktibhih (Srimad-Bhagavatam, 11.26.26) </blockquote> "The wise avoid the wicked and seek the holy. One who is holy, offering holy advice, cuts asunder the desires that create obstructions in one's spiritual life." </blockquote> gHari ------------------ Gary Stevason Seeking the Kingdom of God

The Christian who rebukes Krsna and the Hindu who rebukes Christ are both neither Christian nor Hindu, but simply pretenders. If the shoe fits wear it. Vultures? Learn that at seminary school? You did not approach us in the Holy Spirit, but instead through childish games. Lord Jesus is the external manifestation of the Holy Spirit. It would seem that if he sent you here, it is to learn, perhaps to find the Holy Ghost who is more than a concept or feeling in the heart, but rather the person who you claim to follow. gHari ------------------ Gary Stevason Seeking the Kingdom of God

Mateo, You have never 'preached' the good news here nor do you likely even know what the good news was that Jesus brought. It has all been just building your silly ego. "My dog's bigger than your dog". The Christian who rebukes Krsna and Hindu who rebukes Christ are both neither Christian nor Hindu, but simply pretenders. Just like the seminary - you remain just a chronic liar, a poseur. May Lord Jesus have mercy on you. gHari

Darwin, The problem in accepting as authorities the scientists whose speculations about the fossils found and not found form the theory of evolution is that so much of the Vedas will now be difficult for your mind to accept. Initially we are all on the mental platform. How can one accept a Satya Yuga, Tretya Yuga or even Lord Ramacandra? Prabhupada said "They are accepting bones as their authority, we are accepting intelligence as ours". That intelligence being the Vedas. It may prove more efficient to accept the Vedas and then see where the scientists have made their hasty conclusions in areas which contradict the Vedic understanding of the way it is. From that more respectful perspective, it is quite easy to become content and actually rise above the 'science' claims. gHari

I spent quite some time in the newsgroup talk.origins several years back. That snakepit was filled with the most disgusting creatures I have ever encountered, but there were also some very knowledgeable honest scientists who were actually working in the field. While most of the 'evolutionists' were just anti-religionist idiots without enough intelligence to understand what anyone was talking about, there were some who justifiably were suggesting that we were only trying to find out how God did it. They were honest enough to point out current problems with the theory and the FACT that abiogenesis from Darwin's original "Origin of the Species" had been completely removed in the currently touted theory of evolution. Actually I think the real scientists there were quite intriqued with the knowledge from the Vedas. They wanted to believe in God, but the Biblical representation of creation as understood by Christian theologians was so very implausible given the physical dating of the universe. etc. I left unscathed determined never to waste so much time again. There are people who are ready to hear in this world. All-in-all the evolution subject can be classified amongst the species of red herrings.

More scientists disbelieve abiogenesis (life evolved from matter) than believe it.

My opinion is that we do not live in a Temple until we get our excrement together, certainly at least vis-a-vis the big four. Krsna will gradually take away all unwanted things. In the beginning I was still chasing the babes, but just wasn't catching (m)any .... and eventually the scratching ended and the itching became tolerable, less attractive than Krsna. To second-guess Prabhupada on such a major point is certain to lead to destruction. "Doubting the authorities leads to destruction". Of course, he would say to get married, but raunchy studs muffins like ourselves may need a little weaning off the hard stuff before being fit to enter a Temple. If we keep doubting, putting that clever brain above Krsna and His pure devotees we are certain to be one of those temporary devotees of whom you speak. Prabhupada's words were very clear and prophetic. I'd recommend reading and rereading those words many times over. Daily. Because only hearing what you want to hear just ain't gonna to get you there; it will all be ego and mental platform intellectualism - and that gets boring pretty quickly, using God to maintain your false ego.

SEX Ever had a mosquito bite? If you don't scratch it, eventually it won't itch. It is nature that we will be bitten. Prabhupada notes that the attraction between young boys and girls is natural. But don't scratch it. Now, about sex. The pleasure level is a constant pleasant for the celibate. However, the sex monger will explode all their pleasure in a few minutes and spend days trying to get back to the normal level. But as soon as that happens, bang, another explosion. Essentially they spend most of their lives feeling much less sensual pleasure than a true celibate. The pleasure is all rubbed off and they live most of their life all beaten-up black and blue. I have my cake. I can have one piece a day or I can gobble the whole thing up at once and spend the next week sufferng from the withdrawal. It seems it is a well-known fact that you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Yes, all around they dance their illusion, mesmerizing me with their glittering ways. Can I have some respect and adoration too? As I sit in my cave on this little planet spinning around amongst billions and billions of others, I watch the ones who cannot see beyond the pavement and light posts, trying to find some enjoyment in such a tiny world, afraid to look up at the baffling complexities. But I am. And He is. Or actually, He is and I am, but how wonderful that is, just knowing. Just being is so wonderful that no matter how many other things I add, it could never increase my delight. One can empty a whole lake into the ocean and never perceive a difference. No, the wonder, the enjoyment is only the result of existing. I cannot add upon it. Only if I forget my ocean of pleasure, can I suppose that this or that or those or some more will make me happier. So sad must I be to clamber after such lies. If only we could see our great fortune through God's eyes.

Gelberg was completely incorrect in assuming that we will all become the same personality in the end. Each soul is unique and individual. And that stands to reason: why would Krsna create so many identical personalities? That would really be quite boring for Him. Sure the twenty-six qualities of a Vaishnava will be there, but in reality they are not qualities but just the true nature - more of a requisite, a base or foundation inherent in the fabric of reality, of Krsna's true nature. Beyond this intrinsic goodness there are likely unlimited colours and shades of love and reaction to be exhibited. Isn't that how you would do it if you were Krsna? Srila Prabhupada and Srila Sridhara Maharaja, two entirely distinct personalities, one a gregarious world conqueror, the other introspective and quiet, both wonderful pure devotees, yet when they would meet the relationship was so sublime and sweet. Were they identical, what could possibly happen upon meeting that could not happen within one mind - one mirror talking to another mirror? Perhaps he was talking about the clones and the arrogance and the jargon and the catch-phrases that no one really understood, but constantly quoted - mental platform egoism. We all have to learn to see this puffed-up pretense in ourselves as well as others, and identify it not as the final destination but rather as just yet another rut in the road.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/

<center><img src= "http://home.primus.ca/~caitanya/statuelib.jpg"></center> From PBS site on Evolution: I can't help seeing the parallels between the Planet of the Apes and our world which will never accept that society was far more advanced 10,000 and even more millions of years ago. Somewhere out there buried miles below the Himalayas is a mantra-controlled airplane from two billion B.C. Until proven wrong, this theory stands. gHari

I may have just been chastised by Krsna for my 'clone' comment as I randomly read an old article, oddly enough by our host here: The Good Old Days?

Yes, well and good, but I hope it is some time before I need a pacemaker.

After pulling a gun on me in the VNN Forums, I quite expect Monsieur BB to end up in Afghanistan. I don't expect to see him again.

Darwin, I guess your passion has you flying too fast to appreciate the significance of my previous question to you about Lord Brahma. If Krsna is able to provide Lord Brahma, the first entity in the universe with a form, with no other prior forms or a progression of atomic chance mutations, then it seems quite plausible that He could also arrange any type of body that is required whenever it is required - even if that form is not to be currently found on that particular planet. Is this not logical? If it is, then we have yet another very plausible explanation of the fossil record. But then, my nickname isn't 'darwin'. It's ..... gHari He's my Hero. ------------------ Gary Stevason Seeking the Kingdom of God

Well I read that excerpt from the guy looking for an excuse to bail. Lemme tell ya: we are who Prabhupada says we are. That fellow just enjoys the illusion a little too much.

Darwin, Whence came the four-headed form of Lord Brahma? gHari