gHari
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Posts posted by gHari
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Armed with two bags of words, Barry's brain prepares to demolish the opposition.
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You mean Kreeshna. I hear that in some My Sweet Lords.
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I have searched ten thousand sites to a depth of fifty feet from the deserts of Egypt to the Mayan ruins. I therefore conclude that there is no such thing as a white bear.
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In the 'fall of the jiva' discussion, Deenanath dasa that "Prabhupada made apparently contradictory statements regarding the origin of the jiva". Such assertion that the statements of the great Acarya on this topic are somehow or other "contradictory" is quite thoughtless. At the very least, upon hearing apparently contradictory statements, we should intellectually step back and consider the possibility that the "contradiction" might be within our understanding, not the statements of Srila Prabhupada. However, few writers on this topic do so, and so it has become a common assertion that the statements of Srila Prabhupada on this topic actually are "contradictory". However those that have studied Srila Prabhupada over many years will know that his teachings are certainly characterized by a brilliant clarity, rather than any "apparent contradiction". In fact, an undoubted genius of Srila Prabhupada was his ability to present Vedic siddhanta with striking precision and lucidity. With this in mind, writers on this topic would do better to consider with humility that the source of the apparent contradiction is within their immature grasp of siddhanta rather than the statements of Srila Prabhupada.
Arrogant or illterate - this rant lost me with this mickey mouse intro.
From http://education./reference/dictionary/entry/apparent;_ylt=Ai6r8gFr3JXdQ7RWuuzJeHGugMMF
ap·par·ent
(
-p
r
nt,-pâr-)ADJECTIVE:-
Readily seen; visible.
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Readily understood; clear or obvious.
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Appearing as such but not necessarily so; seeming:an apparent advantage.
ETYMOLOGY:Middle English, from Old French <tt>aparant</tt>, present participle of <tt>aparoir</tt>,to appear; seeappearOTHER FORMS:ap·parent·ly(Adverb),ap·parent·ness(Noun)SYNONYMS:apparent, clear, clear-cut, distinct, evident, manifest, obvious, patent, plainThese adjectives mean readily seen, perceived, or understood:angry for no apparent reason; a clear danger; clear-cut evidence of tampering; distinct fingerprints; evident hostility; manifest pleasure; obvious errors; patent advantages; making my meaning plain.Usage Note:Used before a noun,apparentmeans "seeming":For all his apparent wealth, Pat had no money to pay the rent.Used after a form of the verbbe,however,apparentcan mean either "seeming" (as inHis virtues are only apparent) or "obvious" (as inThe effects of the drought are apparent to anyone who sees the parched fields). One should take care that the intended meaning is clear from the context. -
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It's probably my failing eyesight, but I see the dots under Krsna even though I know they're not there.
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Another solution is to convert Folio texts to the Harvard-kyoto convention. People without Balarama font can also read it then. The attached file contains a program I developed years ago to do it automatically. It's been working fine since Windows 95 ten years ago. The zip file also contains a version that could handle non-Vedabase Folio texts.
In ten seconds any quote any size transforms into Harvard-kyoto. FROM THIS:
When Kåñëa says, man-manä bhava mad-bhakto mad-yäjé mäà namaskuru [bg. 18.65], etc., we, unlike the so-called scholars, do not say that Kåñëa and His inner spirit are different. Kåñëa is absolute, and there is no difference between Kåñëa’s name, Kåñëa’s form, Kåñëa’s qualities, Kåñëa’s pastimes, etc. This absolute position of Kåñëa is difficult to understand for any person who is not a devotee of Kåñëa in the system of paramparä (disciplic succession). Generally the so-called scholars, politicians, philosophers, and svämés, without perfect knowledge of Kåñëa, try to banish or kill Kåñëa when writing commentary on Bhagavad-gétä.
TO THIS:
When KRSNa says, man-manA bhava mad-bhakto mad-yAjI mAM namaskuru [bg. 18.65], etc., we, unlike the so-called scholars, do not say that KRSNa and His inner spirit are different. KRSNa is absolute, and there is no difference between KRSNa's name, KRSNa's form, KRSNa's qualities, KRSNa's pastimes, etc. This absolute position of KRSNa is difficult to understand for any person who is not a devotee of KRSNa in the system of paramparA (disciplic succession). Generally the so-called scholars, politicians, philosophers, and svAmIs, without perfect knowledge of KRSNa, try to banish or kill KRSNa when writing commentary on Bhagavad-gItA.
Below column "A" represents the diacritic and column "B" is Harvard-kyoto
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I became attached to seeing Krsna's name in Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad-gita. Without the dots it looks like Krsna. I guess for me somehow it is more intimate. I fear it may have been I who started the Krsna movement way back in the early net nineties. In the seventies I had it that way on my motorcycle helmet. Yet on my car it was KRISHNA in gold letters - Bhagavan das Maharaja quite liked it.
And yes, the outsiders will say Krishna, not that that is not wonderful too. Like everyone else, when my listeners are outsiders I will write Krishna. Still, it sounds and looks better to me as Krsna.
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Melting into a pool of mush on the ground - I find happiness too wonderful to entertain for long.
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I think that there were a time when the brahmanda was tiny, microscopic and now is ever expanding and will stop expanding and will begin to contract and will merge again across the pores of Mahavisnu, so there was a time when the universe was like the solar system.it is very possible that I am concoting, but I know that the Srimad Bhagavatam are ancient histories, some ocurred millions of years ago and maybe in other creations... there are too many posibilities, maybe the sun is just like an atom of the Big Sun. It is said that in the center of the galaxy there is a big sun and this comes from another sun and this from another, without end. Like a ramification
Yes, the expanding universe eluded me. That is a good point. Red shift that, mind!
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After eons of bad conditioning through 8,000,000 species of life forms, we need to rewire our habits in order to be able to focus our attention on Sri Krsna, on the reality of being.
Then the love affair begins. Gradually our attraction and attachment to Krsna mounts and mounts until it eventually overpowers us. There is no question of a time for spontaneous service - there just is no control over it. It cannot be controlled. It spontaneously arises from the overpowering love we feel for Krsna. Svarupa defeats the mind; love defeats thought; truth becomes fearless.
There is no magic - it is simply love, and that is all magic. Beyond the mind's accept/reject path, the path of love carves its own way one foot at a time, one step at a time, following the eternal innate love of the jiva essence.
So don't ask 'when', for when is when you can't ask 'when'.
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That article is so shameful.
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my view is number 3, each brahmanda is infinite and are resting in the causal ocean, I mean that all we see is just inside of our egg-like universe adn we can't see the brahmajyoti of the spiritual sky. and outside our universe there are other universes with other brahmas, all infinite. so my conclusion is that the mahat-ttatva is like the whole material universe where are resting the other universes and big bang theory sounds like the expansion of the universes from Maha-Vishnu and where matter and spirit will return after the universes be destroyedI tend to agree at this point in time, but there are some issues. We are given diameters for the universe that barely encompass the solar system. We have the restriction of one sun (I see the sun demigod as having some sort of fractal body whose potency manifests here and there over and over). We have descriptions of the outer coverings and the inability to see out of the brahmanandi. It is quite a puzzle to be sure.
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Here is a small chapter from the Bhaktivedanta Institute publication "Vedic Cosmography and Astronomy" by Sadaputa das (Dr. Richard Thompson):
The Position of KRSNaThus far, we have discussed Vedic references to phenomena and theoretical entities that do not fit into the rigorously defined theories of modern physics but that can be readily inserted into our ordinary picture of the world around us. In this book, however, we will be dealing with many things that do not seem to be at all compatible with that picture. We suggest that to accommodate these things, it is necessary for us to re-examine our basic ideas concerning the nature of space.Modern physics and astronomy began with the idea that matter is made of tiny bits of substance, each of which has a location in three-dimensional space. According to this idea, which was strongly developed by Descartes and Newton, three-dimensional space can be seen as an absolute, pre-existing container in which all material events take place. This idea is quite consistent with the picture of the world provided by our own senses, and it tends to provide an unquestioned background for all of our thinking. However, many cultures have maintained quite different ideas about the nature of space, and this is also true of the Vedic culture.To understand the Vedic conception of space, it is necessary to consider the position of KRSNa as the absolute cause of all causes. Clearly we cannot regard the transcendental form of KRSNa as being composed of tiny bits of substance situated at different locations in three-dimensional space. Whether we regard the tiny bits as spiritual or material, such a form would certainly be limited and relative. The actual nature of KRSNa's form is indicated by the following verses from the Brahma-saMhitA:I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, whose transcendental form is full of bliss, truth, and substantiality and is thus full of the most dazzling splendor. Each of the limbs of that transcendental figure possesses in itself the full-fledged functions of all the organs, and He eternally sees, maintains, and manifests the infinite universes, both spiritual and mundane [sBS 5.32].He is an undifferentiated entity, as there is no distinction between the potency and the possessor thereof. In His work of creation of millions of worlds, His potency remains inseparable. All the universes exist in Him, and He is present in His fullness in every one of the atoms that are scattered throughout the universe, at one and the same time. Such is the primeval Lord whom I adore [sBS 5.35].These verses indicate that the form of KRSNa is made of many parts, but that each part is identical to the whole. Also, all space is within the form of KRSNa, but at the same time KRSNa is fully present within every atom. One implication of this is that the entire universe, which is within KRSNa, is fully present within every atom of the universe. Such a state of affairs cannot be visualized in three-dimensional terms, and indeed, it is not possible within three-dimensional space. The statement that reality is like this must simply be taken as an axiom describing the position of KRSNa as the Supreme Absolute Truth. Thus, the Vedic concept of space begins with a statement of KRSNa's unified nature, rather than with the geometric axioms defining three-dimensional space.Here we will introduce an idea of higher-dimensional space that may help us understand the ideas about space implicit in the Vedic literature. The term higher-dimensional is borrowed from modern mathematics; it does not appear directly in Vedic literature. It is part of an attempt to bridge the conceptual gap between modern thinking and the Vedic world view. Naturally, since the traditional followers of Vedic culture have not been confronted with such a gap, they have not been motivated to introduce ideas to bridge it.The most fundamental feature of the Vedic idea of space is that many more things can be brought close together in this space than the geometric rules of three-dimensional space allow. In the course of this chapter we will give several examples from the Vedic literature illustrating this theme. Since the higher-dimensional spaces of mathematics also permit more things to be brought together than the rules of three-dimensional space allow, we have chosen the term higher-dimensional to refer to this feature of the Vedic view of reality.Although KRSNa's situation is very difficult for us to visualize, we can nonetheless understand from Vedic statements describing KRSNa that space must be higher-dimensional. KRSNa's situation is that He has full access to every location simultaneously. In ordinary, three-dimensional space we have access, through the operation of our senses of action and perception, to locations within a limited neighborhood, and we can change that neighborhood by moving from one place to another. Thus our situation can be viewed as a restricted form of KRSNa's situation. A higher-dimensional space corresponds to a situation in which access between locations is more restricted than it is for KRSNa but less restricted than it is for beings experiencing three-dimensional space.This concept of higher-dimensional space is closely tied together with the idea of varying levels of sensory development in sentient beings. Access between locations depends on the operation of senses of action and senses of perception, and thus it should be possible in principle to enlarge the space of one's experience by increasing the scope of one's sensory powers.These ideas about space and its relation to sense perception are implicit in the Vedic literature, and they can best be understood by giving some specific examples. The nature of KRSNa's absolute position is nicely illustrated by the following story of a visit by Lord BrahmA to KRSNa in DvArakA. In the story, KRSNa first responds to BrahmA's request to see Him by having His secretary ask, "Which BrahmA wishes to see Me?" BrahmA later begins his conversation with KRSNa by asking why KRSNa made this inquiry:"Why did you inquire which BrahmA had come see You? What is the purpose of such an inquiry? Is there any other BrahmA besides me within this universe?"Upon hearing this, SrI KRSNa smiled and immediately meditated. Unlimited BrahmAs arrived instantly. These BrahmAs had different numbers of heads. Some had ten heads, some twenty, some a hundred, some a thousand, some ten thousand,some a hundred thousand, some ten million, andothers a hundred million. No one can count the number of faces they had.There also arrived many Lord Sivas with various heads numbering one hundred thousand and ten million. Many Indras also arrived, and they had hundreds of thousands of eyes all over their bodies.When the four-headed BrahmA of this universe saw all these opulences of KRSNa, he became very bewildered and considered himself a rabbit among many elephants.All the BrahmAs who came to see KRSNa offered their respects at His lotus feet, and when they did this, their helmets touched His lotus feet. No one can estimate the inconceivable potency of KRSNa. All the BrahmAs who were there were resting in the one body of KRSNa. When all the helmets struck together at KRSNa's lotus feet, there was a tumultuous sound. It appeared that the helmets themselves were offering prayers unto KRSNa's lotus feet.With folded hands, all the BrahmAs and Sivas began to offer prayers unto Lord KRSNa, saying, "O Lord, You have shown me a great favor. I have been able to see Your lotus feet."Each of them then said, "It is my great fortune, Lord, that You have called me, thinking of me as Your servant. Now let me know what Your order is so that I may carry it on my heads."Lord KRSNa replied, "Since I wanted to see all of you together, I have called all of you here. All of you should be happy. Is there any fear of the demons?"They replied, "By Your mercy, we are victorious everywhere. Whatever burden there was upon the earth You have taken away by descending on that planet."This is the proof of DvArakA's opulence: all the BrahmAs thought, "KRSNa is now staying in my jurisdiction." Thus the opulence of DvArakA was perceived by each and every one of them. Although they were all assembled together, no one could see anyone but himself.Lord KRSNa then bade farewell to all the BrahmAs there, and after offering their obeisances, they all returned to their respective homes [CC ML 21.65–80].In this story it is significant that each of the BrahmAs remained within his own universe. This means that KRSNa was simultaneously manifesting His DvArakA pastimes in all of those universes. Each BrahmA except ours thought that he was alone with KRSNa in DvArakA within his own universe, but by KRSNa's grace our BrahmA could simultaneously see all the others. This illustrates that KRSNa has access to all locations at once, and it also shows that, by KRSNa's grace, different living beings can be given different degrees of spatial access, either permanently or temporarily.Arjuna's vision of KRSNa's universal form on the battlefield of KurukSetra is another example of KRSNa's expanding the sensory powers of a living being and giving him access to regions of the universe previously unknown to him. Before revealing this form to Arjuna, KRSNa said,O best of the BhAratas, see here the different manifestations of Adityas, Vasus, Rudras, AzvinI-kumAras, and all the other demigods. Behold the many wonderful things that no one has ever seen or heard of before.O Arjuna, whatever you want to see, behold at once in this body of Mine! This universal form can show you whatever you now desire to see and whatever you may want to see in the future. Everything--moving and nonmoving--is here completely, in one place [bg. 11.6–7].Thus from one place Arjuna was able to see many different realms occupied by demigods and other kinds of living beings. To perceive such a vast variety of scenes simultaneously, Arjuna clearly had to transcend the limitations of three-dimensional space, and it is significant that KRSNa made this possible through the medium of His all-pervading universal form. The story of mother YazodA's seeing the entire universe (including herself and KRSNa) within KRSNa's mouth is another example showing that KRSNa can reveal all locations through His all-encompassing form (see KB, pp. 83–84).It is interesting to note that the BrahmAs visiting KRSNa had varying numbers of heads, ranging from four to hundreds of millions. It is rather difficult to understand how millions of heads could be arranged on one body in three-dimensional space, and it is also difficult to see how millions of BrahmAs could all be seen simultaneously within one room. We suggest that these things are made possible by the fact that the underlying space is not three-dimensional.Similar observations could be made about the incident in which BANAsura used 1,000 arms to work 500 bows and shoot 2,000 arrows at a time at KRSNa. In this case we are dealing with a materially embodied being living on the earth. One might wonder how 500 material arms could be mounted on one shoulder without interfering with one another. And if this is possible, how could they aim 500 bows in the same direction at once? (Did the bows pass through each other?) We suggest that stories of this kind implicitly require higher-dimensional conceptions of space.We can sum up the idea of dimensionality of space by saying that the greater the degree of access between locations, the higher the dimensionality of the space. Since KRSNa has simultaneous access to all locations, He perceives space at the highest level of dimensionality. Different living beings will perceive space at different levels of dimensionality, and thus they will have access to different sets of locations (or lokas).It is interesting to note that the idea of higher-dimensional access between locations is a key feature of quantum mechanics. The quantum mechanical atom cannot be represented in three-dimensional space. In fact, to represent something as commonplace as an atom of carbon, quantum mechanics makes use of a kind of infinite-dimensional space called Hilbert space. The three-dimensional bonding of carbon and other atoms is made possible by the higher-dimensional interactions within the atoms. Thus, although the idea of higher-dimensional realms may seem to be an extreme departure from accepted scientific thinking, it is possible to interpret modern physics as laying the groundwork for such an idea. -
I am still puzzled about this; is one brahmanandi:
1. a solar system,2. a galaxy,3. the universe including all galaxies,4. parts of the universe,5. or is it on a completely different level of understanding?The statement about not being able to see outside a brahmanandi makes it all very difficult to resolve with scientific observation. It seems to favor speculation number three, and Srila Prabhupada's choice of the word 'universe' seems to support that concept. Maybe I'm thinking too small, and time will open the way to the true understanding. For now, I see it as the whole universe with all its apparent galaxies and stars. That leaves the other brahmanandis as mysterious as Vaikuntha itself - perhaps even more so, seemingly that much more unobtainable.
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It's about heart. The books or words can attract, but the heart must make a connection.
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From The Teachings of Lord Caitanya:<blockquote>There are six kinds of incarnations: (1) the puruSa-avatAra, (2) the lIlA-avatAra, (3) the guNa-avatAra, (4) the manvantara-avatAra, (5) the yuga-avatAra, and (6) the zaktyAveza-avatAra. Out of the six vilAsa manifestations of KRSNa, there are two divisions based on His age, and these are called bAlya and paugaNDa. As the son of Nanda MahArAja, KRSNa in His original form enjoys both of these childhood aspects--namely bAlya and paugaNDa.
It is thus safe to conclude that there is no end to the expansions and incarnations of KRSNa. Lord Caitanya explains some of them to SanAtana just to give him an idea of how the Lord expands and enjoys. These conclusions are also confirmed in SrImad-BhAgavatam (1.3.26). There it is said that there is no limit to the incarnations of the Supreme Lord, just as there is no limit to the waves of the ocean.
KRSNa first incarnates as the three puruSa-avatAras, namely the MahA-ViSNu or KAraNodakazAyI avatAra, the GarbhodakazAyI avatAra and the KSIrodakazAyI avatAra. This is confirmed in the SAtvata-tantra. KRSNa's energies can also be divided into three: His energy of thinking feeling and acting. When He exhibits His thinking energy, He is the Supreme Lord; when He exhibits His feeling energy, He is Lord VAsudeva; when He exhibits His acting energy, He is SaGkarSaNa BalarAma. Without His thinking, feeling and acting, there would be no possibility of creation. Although there is no creation in the spiritual world--for there the planets are beginningless--there is creation in the material world. In either case, however, both the spiritual and material worlds are manifestations of the energy of acting, in which KRSNa acts in the form of SaGkarSaNa and BalarAma.
The spiritual world of the VaikuNTha planets and KRSNaloka, the supreme planet, is situated in His energy of thinking. Although there is no creation in the spiritual world, which is eternal, it is still to be understood that the VaikuNTha planets depend on the thinking energy of the Supreme Lord. This thinking energy is described in Brahma-saMhitA (5.2), where it is said that the supreme abode, known as Goloka, is manifested like a lotus flower with hundreds of petals. Everything there is manifested by Ananta, the BalarAma or SaGkarSaNa form. The material cosmic manifestation and its different universes are manifest through mAyA, or material energy. However, one should not think that material nature or material energy is the cause of this cosmic manifestation. Rather, it is caused by the Supreme Lord, who uses His different expansions through material nature. In other words, there is no possibility of any creation without the superintendence of the Supreme Lord. The form by which the energy of material nature works to bring about creation is called the SaGkarSaNa form, and it is understood that this cosmic manifestation is created under the superintendence of the Supreme Lord.
In SrImad-BhAgavatam (10.46.31) it is said that BalarAma and KRSNa are the origin of all living entities and that these two personalities enter into everything. A list of incarnations is given in SrImad-BhAgavatam (1.3), and they are as follows: (1) KumAras, (2) NArada, (3) VarAha, (4) Matsya, (5) YajJa, (6) Nara-nArAyaNa, (7) KArdami Kapila, (8) DattAtreya, (9) HayazIrSa, (10) HaMsa, (1 1) Dhruvapriya or PRznigarbha, (12) RSabha, (13) PRthu, (14) NRsiMha, (15) KUrma, (16) Dhanvantari, (17) MohinI, (18) VAmana, (19) BhArgava (ParazurAma), (20) RAghavendra, (21) VyAsa, (22) PralambAri BalarAma, (23) KRSNa, (24) Buddha (25) Kalki. Because almost all of these twenty-five lIlA-avatAras appear in one day of BrahmA, which is called a kalpa, they are sometimes called kalpa-avatAras. Out of these, the incarnation of HaMsa and MohinI are not permanent, but Kapila, DattAtreya, RSabha, Dhanvantari and VyAsa are five eternal forms, and they are more celebrated. The incarnations of the tortoise KUrma, the fish Matsya, Nara-nArAyaNa, VarAha, HayazIrSa, PRznigarbha, and BalarAma are considered to be incarnations of vaibhava. Similarly, there are three guNa-avatAras, or incarnations of the qualitative modes of nature, and these are BrahmA, ViSNu and Siva.
Of the manvantara-avatAras, there are fourteen: (1) YajJa, (2) Vibhu, (3) Satyasena, (4) Hari, (5) VaikuNTha, (6) Ajita, (7) VAmana, (8) SArvabhauma, (9) RSabha, (10) ViSvaksena, (11) Dharmasetu, (12) SudhAmA, (13) Yogezvara, (14) BRhadbhAnu. Out of these fourteen manvantara-avatAras, YajJa and VAmana are also lIlA-avatAras, and the rest are manvantara-avatAras. These fourteen manvantara-avatAras are also known as vaibhava-avatAras.
The four yuga-avatAras are also described in SrImad-BhAgavatam. In the Satya-yuga, the incarnation of God is white; in the TretA-yuga He is red; in the DvApara-yuga, He is blackish; and in the Kali-yuga He is also blackish, but sometimes, in a special Kali-yuga, His color is yellowish (as in the case of Caitanya MahAprabhu). As far as the zaktyAveza-avatAras are concerned, they include Kapila and RSabha, Ananta, BrahmA (sometimes the Lord Himself becomes BrahmA), CatuHsana (the incarnation of knowledge), NArada (the incarnation of devotional service), King PRthu (the incarnation of administrative power), and ParazurAma (the incarnation who subdues evil principles).</blockquote>
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Who is degrading avatars? Read my posts once more.The people here have no idea what an avatar means. I was illustrating the meaning of an avatar by explaining the concept of Vishnu in Vaikunta coming down to earth for a finite period of time as Rama or Krishna. Seeing the responses I doubt these people are capable of understanding anything.
Instead of acknowledging the simple truth of the avatar list found commonly everywhere people are avouding the issue and posting stupid responses. Someone came up with an avatar list which has some Baladeva in place of Krishna. If you have a counter argument for the standard avatar list then post a proper response with justification. If you do not have anything meaningful why are you wasting your time on this thread?
But these incarnation pastimes are always going in each of the innumerable universes (brahmanandi) - not just our universe under our Brahma. It is called nitya-lila. It is wrong to think that Krsna exists only when He is manifest in this or that universe. Krsna has His domain in a secluded part of Vaikuntha known as Goloka or Vrindavana where He enjoys pastimes eternally with His intimate associates. Param dhama - He says in the Bhagavad-gita that His devotee after death will come to be with Him in His eternal abode. These are His words.
Krsna is known by different names according to the qualities and pastimes He manifests and as such He predominates the various planets in the infinite Vaikuntha planets where His devotees relish Him in that manifestation.
It is not about us and our world. But beyond Mahavishnu and His glorious activities God has other enjoyments and pastimes in the Kingdom of God, activities that involve neither us nor our world of stone. The transcendental autocrat, Sri Krsna does as He pleases.
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Swami B.V. Tripurari Maharaja writes:
There are ten subjects discussed in theBhagavata. The first nine areasrita, dependents requiring shelter, and the tenth is theasraya, the object providing shelter. Among theasritaisisanukatha, discussion of the incarnations of Godhead. Theasraya, however, is their source and shelter,svayam bhagavanSri Krsna.No one can argue that theBhagavatadoes not reach its apex in the discussion ofKrsna-lila. This discussion constitutes the entire Tenth Canto, which is almost three times longer than any other canto. Krsna and his family members are also the exclusive subject of the Eleventh Canto. Together these two cantos make up more than half of the entireBhagavata. Why so much attention to Krsna? Because Krsna is theasraya-tattva, thesummum bonumof theBhagavata, and thus even Narayana is His plenary portion. Sridhara Svami has stated this in his commentary on theBhagavata:dasame dasamam laksyamasritasraya-vigrahamsri-krsnakhyam param dhamajagad-dhama namami tat"The Tenth Canto of theBhagavatareveals the tenth subject, who is the shelter of all. He is known as Sri Krsna, and he is the ultimate source of all the worlds. Let me offer my obeisances unto Him."Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 20.151:<blockquote>"‘The Tenth Canto of SrImad-BhAgavatam reveals the tenth object, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is the shelter of all surrendered souls. He is known as SrI KRSNa, and He is the ultimate source of all the universes. Let me offer my obeisances unto Him.'
PURPORT
This is a quotation from the BhAvArtha-dIpikA, SrIdhara SvAmI's commentary on SrImad-BhAgavatam (10.1.1). In the Tenth Canto of SrImad-BhAgavatam there is a description of the Azraya-tattva, SrI KRSNa. There are two tattvas--Azraya-tattva and Azrita-tattva. Azraya-tattva is the objective, and Azrita-tattva is the subjective. Since the lotus feet of Lord SrI KRSNa are the shelter of all devotees, SrI KRSNa is called paraM dhAma. In the Bhagavad-gItA (10.12) it is stated, paraM brahma paraM dhAma pavitraM paramaM bhavAn. Everything is resting under the lotus feet of KRSNa. In SrImad-BhAgavatam (10.14.58) it is stated:
samAzritA ye pada-pallava-plavaM
mahat-padaM puNya-yazo murAreH
Under the lotus feet of SrI KRSNa, the entire mahat-tattva is existing. Since everything is under SrI KRSNa's protection, SrI KRSNa is called Azraya-tattva. Everything else is called Azrita-tattva. The material creation is also called Azrita-tattva. Liberation from material bondage and the attainment of the spiritual platform are also Azrita-tattva. KRSNa is the only Azraya-tattva. In the beginning of the creation there are MahA-ViSNu, GarbhodakazAyI ViSNu and KSIrodakazAyI ViSNu. They are also Azraya-tattva. KRSNa is the cause of all causes (sarva-kAraNa-kAraNam [bs. 5.1]). To understand KRSNa perfectly, one has to make an analytical study of Azraya-tattva and Azrita-tattva.</blockquote>
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I seem to remember that our Ancient Mariner is an ardent golfer. This will lift his spirits.
<h1><center>K E S A V A</center></h1>
...... the Supreme Lord, Krsna, who has fine, long black hair. Krsna, the killer of Kesi
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Clearly the demigods are offering garlands and praise in person to Lord Krsna, the best of the Yadus! It is obvious that they are addressing Lord Krishna in 11.6.16 since they have done so in the previous eleven verses and continue for several verses afterwards.If one cannot accept the good fortune of the finding of the Sri Brahma Samhita then one can amuse his intellect with this verse from the Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.3.28} which somehow for some reason was missed on this thread:<center>ete cAMza-kalAH puMsaHkRSNas tu bhagavAn svayamindrAri-vyAkulaM lokaMmRDayanti yuge yuge</center>ete--all these; ca--and; aMza--plenary portions; kalAH--portions of the plenary portions; puMsaH--of the Supreme; kRSNaH--Lord KRSNa; tu--but; bhagavAn--the Personality of Godhead; svayam--in person; indra-ari--the enemies of Indra; vyAkulam--disturbed; lokam--all the planets; mRDayanti--gives protection; yuge yuge--in different ages.All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord SrI KRSNa is the original Personality of Godhead. All of them appear on planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists. The Lord incarnates to protect the theists.As for the translation of 11.6.16 one needs to follow backwards the context of these praises offered by the demigods. We discover to whom they are specifically offered in His very presence in Srimad-Bhagavatam verse 11.6.5:
<center>tasyAM vibhrAjamAnAyAMsamRddhAyAM maharddhibhiHvyacakSatAvitRptAkSAHkRSNam adbhuta-darzanam</center>tasyAm--in that (DvArakA); vibhrAjamAnAyAm--resplendent; samRddhAyAm--very rich; mahA-RddhibhiH--with great opulences; vyacakSata--they saw; avitRpta--unsatisfied; akSAH--whose eyes; kRSNam--Lord KRSNa; adbhuta-darzanam--wonderful to behold.In that resplendent city of DvArakA, rich with all superior opulences, the demigods beheld with unsatiated eyes the wonderful form of SrI KRSNa.So it would appear that sanskrit learning requires also intelligence and devotion to reach the final proper understanding of the Bhagavatam, otherwise it is simply a mundane skill.
It will be interesting to see how our sanskrit scholar twists 1.3.28 to avoid accepting the supremacy of Sri Krsna. Without integrity how will the Truth be known?
<a href=http://vedabase.net/sb/1/2/17/ target=new>Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.17</a>:<BLOCKQUOTE><CENTER><FONT COLOR=RED>zRNvatAM sva-kathAH kRSNaH
puNya-zravaNa-kIrtanaH
hRdy antaH stho hy abhadrANi
vidhunoti suhRt satAm
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zRNvatAm--those who have developed the urge to hear the message of; sva-kathAH--His own words; kRSNaH--the Personality of Godhead; puNya--virtues; zravaNa--hearing; kIrtanaH--chanting; hRdi antaH sthaH--within one's heart; hi--certainly; abhadrANi--desire to enjoy matter; vidhunoti--cleanses; suhRt--benefactor; satAm--of the truthful.
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SrI KRSNa, the Personality of Godhead, who is the ParamAtmA [supersoul] in everyone's heart and the benefactor of the truthful devotee, cleanses desire for material enjoyment from the heart of the devotee who has developed the urge to hear His messages, which are in themselves virtuous when properly heard and chanted.
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SB 11.6.5: In that resplendent city of Dvārakā, rich with all superior opulences, the demigods beheld with unsatiated eyes the wonderful form of Śrī Kṛṣṇa.
SB 11.6.6: The demigods covered the Supreme Lord of the universe with flower garlands brought from the gardens of heaven. Then they praised Him, the best of the Yadu dynasty, with statements containing charming words and ideas.
SB 11.6.7: The demigods began to speak: Our dear Lord, advanced mystic yogis, striving for liberation from the severe bondage of material work, meditate with great devotion upon Your lotus feet within their hearts. Dedicating our intelligence, senses, vital air, mind and power of speech to Your Lordship, we demigods bow down at Your lotus feet.
SB 11.6.8: O unconquerable Lord, You engage Your illusory energy, composed of three modes, to unleash, maintain and devastate the inconceivable manifest cosmos, all within Your own self. As the supreme superintendent of māyā, You appear to be situated in the interaction of the modes of nature; however, You are never affected by material activities. In fact, You are directly engaged in Your own eternal, spiritual bliss, and thus You cannot be accused of any material infection.
SB 11.6.9: O greatest of all, those whose consciousness is polluted by illusion cannot purify themselves merely by ordinary worship, study of the Vedas, charity, austerity and ritual activities. Our Lord, those pure souls who have developed a powerful transcendental faith in Your glories achieve a purified state of existence that can never be attained by those lacking such faith.
SB 11.6.10: Great sages, desiring the highest benefit in life, always cherish Your lotus feet within their hearts, which are melted by love for You. Similarly, Your self-controlled devotees, desiring to cross beyond the material kingdom of heaven to achieve opulence equal to Yours, worship Your lotus feet in the morning, at noon and in the evening. Thus, they meditate upon Your Lordship in Your quadruple expansion. Your lotus feet are just like a blazing fire that burns to ashes all the inauspicious desires for material sense gratification.
SB 11.6.11: Those about to offer oblations into the fire of sacrifice in accordance with the Ṛg, Yajur and Sāma Vedas meditate on Your lotus feet. Similarly, the practitioners of transcendental yoga meditate upon Your lotus feet, hoping for knowledge about Your divine mystic potency, and the most elevated pure devotees perfectly worship Your lotus feet, desiring to cross beyond Your illusory potency.
SB 11.6.12: O almighty Lord, You are so kind to Your servants that You have accepted the withered flower garland that we have placed on Your chest. Since the goddess of fortune makes her abode on Your transcendental chest, she will undoubtedly become agitated, like a jealous co-wife, upon seeing our offering also dwelling there. Yet You are so merciful that You neglect Your eternal consort Lakṣmī and accept our offering as most excellent worship. O merciful Lord, may Your lotus feet always act as a blazing fire to consume the inauspicious desires within our hearts.
SB 11.6.13: O omnipotent Lord, in Your incarnation as Trivikrama, You raised Your leg like a flagpole to break the shell of the universe, allowing the holy Ganges to flow down, like a banner of victory, in three branches throughout the three planetary systems. By three mighty steps of Your lotus feet, Your Lordship captured Bali Mahārāja, along with his universal kingdom. Your lotus feet inspire fear in the demons by driving them down to hell and fearlessness among Your devotees by elevating them to the perfection of heavenly life. We are sincerely trying to worship You, our Lord; therefore may Your lotus feet kindly free us from all of our sinful reactions.
SB 11.6.14: You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the transcendental entity who is superior to both material nature and the enjoyer of nature. May Your lotus feet bestow transcendental pleasure upon us. All of the great demigods, beginning with Brahmā, are embodied living entities. Struggling painfully with one another under the strict control of Your time factor, they are just like bulls dragged by ropes tied through their pierced noses.
SB 11.6.15: You are the cause of the creation, maintenance and destruction of this universe. As time, You regulate the subtle and manifest states of material nature and control every living being. As the threefold wheel of time You diminish all things by Your imperceptible actions, and thus You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
SB 11.6.16: My dear Lord, the original puruṣa-avatāra, Mahā-Viṣṇu, acquires His creative potency from You. Thus with infallible energy He impregnates material nature, producing the mahat-tattva. Then the mahat-tattva, the amalgamated material energy, endowed with the potency of the Lord, produces from itself the primeval golden egg of the universe, which is covered by various layers of material elements.
SB 11.6.17: O Lord, You are the supreme creator of this universe and the ultimate controller of all moving and nonmoving living entities. You are Hṛṣīkeśa, the supreme controller of all sensory activity, and thus You never become contaminated or entangled in the course of Your supervision of the infinite sensory activities within the material creation. On the other hand, other living entities, even yogīs and philosophers, are disturbed and frightened simply by remembering the material objects that they have supposedly renounced in their pursuit of enlightenment.
SB 11.6.18: My Lord, You are living with sixteen thousand exquisitely beautiful, aristocratic wives. By their irresistible coy and smiling glances and by their lovely arching eyebrows, they send You messages of eager conjugal love. But they are completely unable to disturb the mind and senses of Your Lordship.
SB 11.6.19: The nectar-bearing rivers of discussions about You, and also the holy rivers generated from the bathing of Your lotus feet, are able to destroy all contamination within the three worlds. Those who are striving for purification associate with the holy narrations of Your glories by hearing them with their ears, and they associate with the holy rivers flowing from Your lotus feet by physically bathing in them.
SB 11.6.20: Śrī Śukadeva Gosvāmī continued: After Brahmā, along with Lord Śiva and the other demigods, thus offered prayers to the Supreme Lord, Govinda, Lord Brahmā situated himself in the sky and addressed the Lord as follows.
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If one cannot accept the good fortune of the finding of the Sri Brahma Samhita then one can amuse his intellect with this verse from the Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.3.28} which somehow for some reason was missed on this thread:What a funny and incorrect translation! Did you write this yourself or did you copy it from someone?This verse is praising Vishnu as the supreme source of power where puman means Purusha or the male aspect of creation. You are translating puman to 'the original puruSa-avatAra, MahA-ViSNu'and completely twisting the verse to mean something else.
Why dont you learn sanskrit and come back in a year or two?
Go to a Vaishnava forum like dvaita or ramanuja and ask them if you do not believe me. Many people there know sanskrit and will point out the same error in your translation. The Bhagavatam never says Krishna is the source of Vishnu. Only an unknown book like Brahma Samhita will make such a false statement.
<center>ete cAMza-kalAH puMsaHkRSNas tu bhagavAn svayamindrAri-vyAkulaM lokaMmRDayanti yuge yuge</center>ete--all these; ca--and; aMza--plenary portions; kalAH--portions of the plenary portions; puMsaH--of the Supreme; kRSNaH--Lord KRSNa; tu--but; bhagavAn--the Personality of Godhead; svayam--in person; indra-ari--the enemies of Indra; vyAkulam--disturbed; lokam--all the planets; mRDayanti--gives protection; yuge yuge--in different ages.All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord SrI KRSNa is the original Personality of Godhead. All of them appear on planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists. The Lord incarnates to protect the theists.As for the translation of 11.6.16 one needs to follow backwards the context of these praises offered by the demigods. We discover to whom they are specifically offered in His very presence in Srimad-Bhagavatam verse 11.6.5:<BLOCKQUOTE><CENTER><FONT COLOR=RED>tasyAM vibhrAjamAnAyAM
samRddhAyAM maharddhibhiH
vyacakSatAvitRptAkSAH
kRSNam adbhuta-darzanam
</CENTER>
tasyAm--in that (DvArakA); vibhrAjamAnAyAm--resplendent; samRddhAyAm--very rich; mahA-RddhibhiH--with great opulences; vyacakSata--they saw; avitRpta--unsatisfied; akSAH--whose eyes; kRSNam--Lord KRSNa; adbhuta-darzanam--wonderful to behold.
<B></FONT>
In that resplendent city of DvArakA, rich with all superior opulences, the demigods beheld with unsatiated eyes the wonderful form of SrI KRSNa.
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So it would appear that sanskrit learning requires also intelligence and devotion to reach the final proper understanding of the Bhagavatam, otherwise it is simply a mundane skill.
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<center>tvattaH pumAn samadhigamya yayAsya vIryaMdhatte mahAntam iva garbham amogha-vIryaHso 'yaM tayAnugata Atmana ANDa-kozaMhaimaM sasarja bahir AvaraNair upetam</center>tvattaH--from You; pumAn--the puruSa-avatAra, MahA-ViSNu; samadhigamya--obtaining; yayA--along with which (material nature); asya--of this creation; vIryam--the potential seed; dhatte--He impregnates; mahAntam--the mahat-tattva, the raw amalgamation of matter; iva garbham--like an ordinary fetus; amogha-vIryaH--He whose semen is never wasted; saH ayam--that same (mahat-tattva); tayA--with the material nature; anugataH--joined; AtmanaH--from itself; ANDa-kozam--the primeval egg of the universe; haimam--golden; sasarja--produced; bahiH--on its outside; AvaraNaiH--with several coverings; upetam--endowed.My dear Lord, the original puruSa-avatAra, MahA-ViSNu, acquires His creative potency from You. Thus with infallible energy He impregnates material nature, producing the mahat-tattva. Then the mahat-tattva, the amalgamated material energy, endowed with the potency of the Lord, produces from itself the primeval golden egg of the universe, which is covered by various layers of material elements.PURPORTIn the previous verses the supremacy of the Personality of Godhead has been established in relation to the living entity and material nature. In this verse it is clearly stated that Lord KRSNa is the source of the greatest ViSNu incarnation, MahA-ViSNu, and that MahA-ViSNu acquires His creative potency from Lord KRSNa. It would therefore be foolish to surmise that Lord KRSNa is an expansion of ViSNu. In this regard the opinion of the demigods, headed by BrahmA, can be taken as final.Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Adi 2.110-114:
Therefore Lord Caitanya is the Supreme Absolute Truth. To call Him KSIrodakazAyI ViSNu does not add to His glory.But such words from the lips of a sincere devotee cannot be false. All possibilities abide in Him, for He is the primeval Lord.All other incarnations are situated in potential form in the original body of the primeval Lord. Thus according to one's opinion, one may address Him as any one of the incarnations.Some say that SrI KRSNa is directly Nara-NArAyaNa. Others say that He is directly VAmana.Some say that KRSNa is the incarnation of KSIrodakazAyI ViSNu. None of these statements is impossible; each is as correct as the others.Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Adi 5.128-131:
They know that there is no difference between the incarnation and the source of all incarnations. Previously Lord KRSNa was regarded in the light of different principles by different people.Some said that KRSNa was directly Lord Nara-NArAyaNa, and some called Him Lord VAmanadeva incarnate.Some called Lord KRSNa an incarnation of Lord KSIrodakazAyI. All these names are true; nothing is impossible.When the Supreme Personality of Godhead KRSNa appears, He is the shelter of all plenary parts. Thus at that time all His plenary portions join in Him.In whatever form one knows the Lord, one speaks of Him in that way. In this there is no falsity, since everything is possible in KRSNa.The Avataras in Detail ----- http://vedabase.net/tlc/8/en
Overview from a AC Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada lecture:
In Bhagavad-gItA also it is confirmed,athavA bahunaitenakiM jJAtena tavArjunaviSTabhyAham (idaM kRtsnam)ekAMzena sthito jagat[]EkAMzena. "One My plenary portion..." MahA-ViSNu. For creation of this material world. EkAMzena sthito jagat. And what is that ekAMza? That is described also. Yasyaika-nizvasita-kAlam athAvalambya jIvanti loma-vilajA jagad-aNDa-nAthAH [bs. 5.48]. Loma-vilajA. And innumerable universes are coming out from the hair holes of the body of MahA-ViSNu. Nizvasita-kAlam athAvalambya. His breathing. He is, within the KAraNa Ocean, Causal Ocean, He is sleeping. YaH kAraNArNava-jale bhajati sma yoga-nidrAm [bs. 5.47]. Yoga-nidrA. And while He's sleeping in His yoga-nidrA, innumerable universes are coming out through His breathing and from the air holes. (sound of child yelling) Can you stop that child?So this is greatness of KRSNa. This MahA-ViSNu is only kalA-vizeSaH. ViSNur mahAn sa iha yasya kalA-vizeSaH. KalA means portion of the plenary portion. That is called kalA. AMza means plenary portion. And kalA means... So all the incarnation of ViSNu... And KRSNa described in the SrImad Bhagavad, SrImad-BhAgavatam, First Canto, Third Chapter. And at the conclusion it is said, ete cAMza-kalAH puMsaH kRSNas tu bhagavAn svayam [sB 1.3.28]. KRSNa's name is also there, but just to make distinction between all the avatAras and KRSNa, it is concluded: ete, all of them are, ca aMza, some of them are plenary portions, some of them, portion of the plenary portion. In this, they are situated. But the name KRSNa which is there, kRSNas tu bhagavAn svayam... That is stated.So we have to study. If we are serious student of KRSNa, then in the zAstras everything is there. So when we understand the greatness of KRSNa, then we become more attached. More attached. The greatness attracts. Suppose a man is very exalted position. He attracts the attention. Similarly, if we know the greatness of... One who does not know the greatness of KRSNa, he thinks KRSNa, "Yes,... That kUpa-maNDUka-nyAya, Doctor Frog: "Maybe little greater than me. That's all." AvajAnanti mAM mUDhAH [bg. 9.11]. Such person thinks KRSNa as one of them, and therefore it has become a very fashionable thing to become KRSNa's avatAra, very cheaply. No. They do not know actually what is KRSNa's position.KRSNa's position, if one understands, then he is liberated person. TyaktvA dehaM punar janma naiti mAm eti [bg. 4.9]. He's liberated person. Even in this body. Simply by knowing how great KRSNa is. Simply by knowing this fact, how KRSNa... Then one understands that mattaH sarvaM pravartate. Iti matvA bhajante mAm... Then our bhajana for KRSNa's service will become very much fixed-up and determined. BudhA bhAva-samanvitAH [bg. 10.8]. This is bhAva. BhAva means... One can understand very easily. When you are fully conscious of something, greatness, "Oh, KRSNa is so great," that is called bhAva. That can be understood. It is not very difficult. Because in the zAstras everything is there about KRSNa. Simply we have to take it, accept it.And if we do not believe zAstras, then there is no, I mean, use of understanding KRSNa. SAstra-cakSusA. You have to see... KRSNa is adhokSaja, beyond the perception, sense perception. But through the zAstra we can understand little bit of KRSNa. It is very difficult to know. We cannot understand. KRSNa is unlimited. We are limited. Still, whatever limited power we have got, we can understand KRSNa if we follow the zAstra, sAdhu and guru. SAdhu-zAstra-guru-vAkya tinete kariyA aikya.So this bhAva stage has to be attained. It is not that artificially we come to the bhAva stage. No. VIta-rAga-bhaya-krodhA man-mayA mAm upAzritAH [bg. 4.10]. These are the qualifications. KRSNa is personally saying. Not all of a sudden we can understand KRSNa. VIta-rAga. The first qualification is to be detached from... Our present qualification is we are too much attached to this material sense enjoyment. Material life means sense enjoyment. Therefore we have to reduce the sense enjoyment by tapasya. Tapasya. Sense enjoyment is not controlled all of a sudden. TapasA brahmacaryeNa tyAgena zauca...zaucena yamena niyamena [sB 6.1.13]. These are the statements. But if you take the devotional service, then everything become very easy to follow, tapasA. BrahmacaryeNa [sB 6.1.13].Just like we are advising our student not to have illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. This is tapasya. Because everyone is prone to all these things. Everyone likes illicit sex. Everyone likes to eat meat. Loke vyavAyAmiSa-madya-sevA nityA hi jantoH. JantoH, jantu means animal, or ignorant person. A person who has no knowledge, he also a jantu, animal. So vyavAyAmiSa-madya-sevAH. Sex life and meat-eating, AmiSa, and madya-sevAH, intoxicant, and natural tendency. PravRttir eSA bhUtAnAm. This is pravRtti. They have got inclination. That is material life. AmiSa-madya-sevAH. But they have to be controlled by tapasya. That is tapasya. If because I have got this inclination, I have got a desire to drink or have intoxication, therefore I shall take it.... There is a Bengali song, cakSe yadi lAge bhAla kena dekha nA:(?) "Now if I, my eyes like to see it, why shall I not see?" This is sense enjoyment. This is animalism.But when you can control them, that is humanity. Therefore laws are made for the human being, not for the animals. I have several times explained. When there is law on the street, "Keep to the left," it is meant for the human being, not for the cats and dogs and cows. Say, if the cat, dog, goes to the left or right against the police direction, he's not punished. Because he's animal. Or a child. If he trespasses. But if an adult person transgresses the law, he'll be punished. So the human life has got responsibility.What is that responsibility? Tapasya. Here it is said, jJAna-tapasA pUtAH, purified. JJAna, knowledge, and tapasya. Then he's purified. Not that "You can do whatever you like. It has nothing to do with the religion." There are so many rascals" program. "You can eat anything. You can do anything, and still you become a Vedantist." This kind of rascal Vedantists are going on. But here it is said by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, jJAna-tapasA. JJAna-tapasA pUtA mad-bhAvam. Without knowledge, without tapasya, you cannot make any spiritual progress. Not by simple words. That is not possible. Because in the previous verse it has been said that janma karma me divyaM yo jAnAti tattvataH, tyaktvA dehaM punar janma naiti mAm eti kaunteya [bg. 4.9]. So how one can come to KRSNa? MAm eti. That is being described. VIta-rAga-bhaya-krodhAH. VIta-rAga-bhaya-krodhA man-mayA mAm upAzritAH [bg. 4.10]. MAm upAzritAH, to take shelter of KRSNa. To become a devotee of KRSNa, to become KRSNa conscious.
No Contradiction in Teachings of Srila Prabhupada on the Fall of the Jiva
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From http://education./reference/dictionary/entry/paradox
par·a·dox
(p
r
-d
ks
) KEY
NOUN: