gHari

SvarUpa DAmodara: One last question, this stone thing. Now as a devotee we know that matter is also eternal in the form of pradhAna, described in Third Canto in...

PrabhupAda: Yes. We have already explained, there are two energies. So if the energetic is eternal, the energy is also eternal. But the difference between the inferior and superior means one is manifested eternally and one is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. That is inferior. The matter is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. Just like the cloud. What is this cloud? Cloud is also manifestation of the energy of the sun, is it not? But it is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. But the sunshine is always manifested. So that is the difference between the inferior and superior. Both of them are energies of the sun. But the cloud is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. But the sunshine is always manifested. But as energy, they are coming from the same source. [break] ...but matter is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. Therefore it is inferior. And life is always manifested, therefore superior. I am soul, I am eternal. But this body is manifested now. It is existing eighty years or hundred years, but this body will be finished, finished forever. Then again another matter manifests. But I am the soul, eternal, this body or that body. Na hanyate hanyamAne zarIre [bg. 2.20]. He is ever-manifest, either this body or that body, it doesn't matter. That is eternity. That is superior energy.

=========

In the above analogy I think Srila Prabhupada parallels sunshine with pradhana, and clouds with the space, time and matter of prakrti.

The injunction of VaiSNava regulation in this connection runs as follows: arcye viSNau zilA-dhIr guruSu nara-matir vaiSNave jAti-buddhiH zrI-viSNor nAmni zabda-sAmAnya-buddhiH, etc. "One should not consider the Deity of the Lord as worshiped in the temple to be an idol, nor should one consider the authorized spiritual master an ordinary man. Nor should one consider a pure VaiSNava to belong to a particular caste, etc." (Padma PurANa)

Parampara ......... http://vedabase.net/sb/2/3/22/en

Then there is no sampradaya, no parampara. It is mental speculation from the mind - such a mountain of offense to climb over.

Gita 9.26:

What sampradaya speaks of idols?

This really takes me back to the 70s. My son really liked this butterfly song: http://www.iskcon.com.au/Audio_pages/Mangalananda_ChangeofHeart.html

But then in that case, how can one say that there goes by 100 years before a new Brahma with 100 yrs of life comes along?

Perhaps the timing for a new mahat-tattva to be created is determined in the transcendental realm by the autocratic will of Sri Krsna, Sri Narayana. Our only estimate of the interval is the length of time our current Brahma enjoys.

Yesterday on an old Ed Sullivan show I saw a dog act with trained poodles wearing costumes hopping around on their hind legs looking like humans.

I realized that they weren't humans but were just behaving like that because they had been trained. They really just wanted to receive their treat, some food that would come at the end of the show.

How much does devotion parallel this dog act? What are the motivations behind what we do? It's a humbling question if we dare to ask it.

<center></center>

Portion of the purport to Srimad Bhagavatam 2.6.42:

Hey you guys, you've already used up your three bullets. It is in the hands of the jury now.

I'll use my second last bullet to call to the witness stand, Monsieur Babaji:

<blockquote>Vrajanatha: That is a wonderful conclusion! I wish to hear the evidence the Vedas give for it. The words of the Supreme Lord (Bhagavad-gita) are worthy evidence by themselves. However, when they are supported by the words of the Upanisads, they are more easily accepted by the people in general.

Babaji: These truths are revealed in many passages of the Vedas. I will recite one or two of them. Please listen carefully. In the Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad (2.2.20 and 4.3.9) it is said:

"As tiny sparks fly from a fire, so all individual souls have come from the Supreme."

"A person has two places: the spiritual world and the place where the spiritual world meets another world. There is also a third place, a place of dreams. Standing between them, the soul sees on one side the spiritual world and on the other side the place of dreaming."

This passage describes the individual soul's (jiva-sakti), which can reside in either the spiritual or material worlds (tatastha). In the Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad (4.3.18) it is also said:

"As a large fish in a river may go to one shore or the other, so a person may go to one world or another. He may go to a world where he is awake, or may go to a world made of dreams."

Vrajanatha: How does the Vedanta philosophy define the word "tatastha?"

Babaji: The place where a river's waters meet with the land of the shore is called the 'tata'. The 'tata' is then the place where water meets the land. What is the nature of this 'tata'? It is like the thinnest of threads that runs along the boundary of land and water. A 'tata' is like the finest of lines, so small that the gross material eyes cannot even see it . In this example the spiritual world is like the water and the material world is like the land. The thin line that separates them is the 'tata'. That boundary place is the abode of the individual spirit souls. The individual spirit souls are like atomic particles of sunlight. The souls can see both the spiritual world and the material world created by Maya. The Lord's spiritual potency, cit-sakti, is limitless, and the Lord's material potency, maya-sakti, is gigantic. Standing between them, the individual spirit soul is very tiny. The individual spirit souls are manifested from the tatastha-sakti of Lord Krsna. Therefore the souls are naturally situated on the boundary (tatastha) of matter and spirit).

Vrajanatha: What is this 'tatastha' nature of the individual souls?

Babaji: Standing between them, the soul can see these two worlds. The 'tatastha' nature of the souls refers to the fact that they must be under the control of one of these two potencies. The actual place of the 'tata' (shore may change. What was once dry land may be covered with water, and what was once covered by water may again become dry land. If he turns his gaze upon Lord Krsna, the soul comes under the shelter of Lord Krsna's spiritual potency. But if he turns away from Krsna and turns his gaze to the material potency, maya, then the soul is caught in maya's trap. That is what is meant by 'the soul's tatastha nature'. </blockquote>

I've always had the impression that there is no material space or time when the universes are wound up; they'd become manifest again when a new mahat-tattva manifests.

PrabhupAda: No, I have no, I mean to say, grudge against. If KRSNa wants... In old age I was living a retired life in VRndAvana. He asked me "Get out, go to America." So I came. At the age of seventy years, actually nobody goes out of home. But KRSNa asked me, "Get out and go." So I came. And although I have got the best temple in VRndAvana, I cannot live there. But a fighting soldier is honored by the government. He maybe dies, he is recognized by the government, "Here is a soldier, laid down his life by fighting." So we prefer that life. We shall die fighting with mAyA.

Sarva gattah, thank you for finding so many relevant quotes of Srila Prabhupada. This thread has become a valuable resource.

Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.5.22:

[...]

If we really were just dreaming then we could just wake up.

[...]

Then there would be no alarm clocks.

[...] To think that these spiritual personalities fall or dream that they have fallen is a big offense.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that.

This means that the jiva is always under the control of either Mahamaya in the conditioned state or Yogamaya in the Paravyoma, spiritual world in the liberated state.

In the conditioned state, that beautiful spiritual body remains covered by the subtle body, and the material covering of the jiva-svarupa in the form of the jadasarira causes its material transformation (jada-vikara).

Humility.

[...]

Vrajanatha: I understand the eternal svarupa of the jiva to be spiritual and atomic in nature, and within that svarupa is a beautiful body composed of spiritual limbs. In the conditioned state, that beautiful spiritual body remains covered by the subtle body, and the material covering of the jiva-svarupa in the form of the jadasarira causes its material transformation (jada-vikara).

 

Now, I want to know whether the jiva is completely faultless in the liberated state.

Babaji: The atomic spiritual form is free from defect, but because of its minute nature, it is inherently weak and therefore incomplete. The only defect in that state is that the jiva’s spiritual form may be covered through association with the powerful maya-sakti.

It is said in Srimad-Bhagavatam (10.2.32),

 

 

ye ’nye ’ravindaksa vimukta-maninas

 

 

 

tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha-buddhayah

 

 

 

aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah

 

 

 

patanty adho ’nadrta-yusmad-anghrayah

 

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O lotus-eyed Lord, non-devotees, such as the jnanis, yogis and renunciants, falsely consider themselves to be liberated, but their intelligence is not really pure because they lack devotion. They perform severe austerities and penances, and achieve what they imagine to be the liberated position, but they still fall from there into a very low condition due to neglecting Your lotus feet.

This shows that the constitution of the jiva will always remain incomplete, no matter how elevated a stage the liberated jiva may achieve. That is the inherent nature of jiva-tattva, and that is why it is said in the Vedas that Isvara is the controller of maya, whereas the jiva remains eligible to be controlled of maya in all circumstances.

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THUS ENDS THE FIFTEENTH CHAPTER OF JAIVA-DHARMA,

 

 

 

ENTITLED

 

“PRAMEYA: JIVA-TATTVA”

With no vegetation on the planet, who knows what kinds of drastic sun-burning weather patterns, earthquakes, volcanoes, continental drifts and rifts would mold a new face on the earth?

What would survive the lava? Axe Max, in the fiya!

Sri Caitanya-caritamrita Madhya 22.107:

 

<center>

nitya-siddha kRSNa-prema ‘sAdhya' kabhu naya

zravaNAdi-zuddha-citte karaye udaya

</center>

nitya-siddha--eternally established; kRSNa-prema--love of KRSNa; sAdhya--to be gained; kabhu--at any time; naya--not; zravaNa-Adi--by hearing, etc.; zuddha--purified; citte--in the heart; karaye udaya--awakens.

"Pure love for KRSNa is eternally established in the hearts of the living entities. It is not something to be gained from another source. When the heart is purified by hearing and chanting, this love naturally awakens.

It is the prema that is nitya-siddha, but what might be the implications of that?

I don't get it. Why should it affect me at all whether I came from here or there or just appeared in the womb? Let's look at the psychology behind the big preaching hoax.

When Krsna descends He is always accompanied by His entourage.

Srimad Bhagavatam 1.11.39:<BLOCKQUOTE><CENTER><FONT COLOR=RED>taM menire 'balA mUDhAH

straiNaM cAnuvrataM rahaH

apramANa-vido bhartur

IzvaraM matayo yathA

</CENTER>

tam--unto Lord SrI KRSNa; menire--took it for granted; abalAH--delicate; mUDhAH--because of simplicity; straiNam--one who is dominated by his wife; ca--also; anuvratam--follower; rahaH--lonely place; apramANa-vidaH--unaware of the extent of glories; bhartuH--of their husband; Izvaram--the supreme controller; matayaH--thesis; yathA--as it is.

<B></FONT>

The simple and delicate women truly thought that Lord Sri KRSNa, their beloved husband, followed them and was dominated by them. They were unaware of the extent of the glories of their husband, as the atheists are unaware of Him as the supreme controller.

PURPORT

</B>Even the transcendental wives of Lord SrI KRSNa did not know completely the unfathomable glories of the Lord. This ignorance is not mundane because there is some action of the internal potency of the Lord in the exchange of feelings between Him and His eternal associates. The Lord exchanges transcendental relations in five ways, as proprietor, master, friend, son and lover, and in each of these pastimes He plays fully by the potency of yogamAyA, the internal potency. He plays exactly like an equal friend with the cowherd boys or even with friends like Arjuna. He plays exactly like a son in the presence of YazodAmAtA, He plays exactly like a lover in the presence of the cowherd damsels, and He plays exactly like a husband in the presence of the queens of DvArakA.

Such devotees of the Lord never think of the Lord as the Supreme, but think of Him exactly as a common friend, a pet son, or a lover or husband very much dear to heart and soul. That is the relation between the Lord and His transcendental devotees, who act as His associates in the spiritual sky, where there are innumerable VaikuNTha planets.

<B>When the Lord descends, He does so along with His entourage to display a complete picture of the transcendental world, where pure love and devotion for the Lord prevail without any mundane tinge of lording it over the creation of the Lord.</b> Such devotees of the Lord are all liberated souls, perfect representations of the marginal or internal potency in complete negation of the influence of the external potency. The wives of Lord KRSNa were made to forget the immeasurable glories of the Lord by the internal potency so that there might not be any flaw of exchange, and they took it for granted that the Lord was a henpecked husband, always following them in lonely places.

In other words, even the personal associates of the Lord do not know Him perfectly well, so what do the thesis writers or mental speculators know about the transcendental glories of the Lord? The mental speculators present different theses as to His becoming the causes of the creation, the ingredients of the creation, or the material and efficient cause of the creation, etc., but all this is but partial knowledge about the Lord. Factually they are as ignorant as the common man. The Lord can be known by the mercy of the Lord only, and by no other means. But since the dealings of the Lord with His wives are based on pure transcendental love and devotion, the wives are all on the transcendental plane without material contamination.

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From the Bhagavatam Appendix:

Entourage: The Padma PurANa states, eta hi yAdavAH sarve mad-gaNA eva bhAvini/ sarvathA mat-priyA devi mat-tulya-guNa-zAlinaH: "My dear lady, all these YAdavas are My personal associates. They are in all respects very dear to Me, O goddess, and their characters are equal to Mine."

If this Earth was the ground where a previous Kali yuga happened just 4,320,000 years ago as some people suppose, and if there was a previous kali yuga 4,320,000 before that, and another before that, then where is the evidence of this?

 

Have archeologists found any hubcaps and remains of ancient nuclear reactors, computers, cellphones etc. in their digs?

See LOST and the previous DHARMA Initiative.

Maya's goal is simply to provide the jivas with the satisfaction of being independent of God, and then showing the jivas that this is not their best interest.

In truth it is all Krsna's mercy, although some see it as the reward and punishment of mundane conditioning. But there is nothing mundane about it - it is God's energy, His external energy. It is only mundane if seen that way.

There is a fault, and God is helping us to correct it. If we are submissive and humble we will get through the lessons with less drama and excitement. The more obstinate we are, the more drastic must the measures be to effect the proper change of heart.

Stay conscious of God and learn to see that it is all good.