paul108

Richard, Material nature, i.e. gross matter, does not have free will. Spiritual nature, i.e. Krishna and the innumerable spirit souls, has free will. When the spirit souls lovingly submit to the will of Krishna, they are truly free, but when they try to use their free will for their own selfish purposes, they get caught up in matter and their free will is checked on account of their association with matter and the natural confusion that results. If all you know of is material nature, then it does appear that nothing has free will. However, the living entities are not material. Stop being so concerned with material bodies. Actual life is spiritual, not material. You can read about the distinction between the body and the soul in Bhagavad-gita As It Is, Chapter 2. Of course it's a good idea to read the Introduction first, then Chapter 1, and then Chapter 2. Hare Krishna

Yesterday I inspected the local Kellog's factory for compliance with our state's air quality regulations. They passed with no violations. Actually they have pretty sophisticated air pollution control systems. I only buy organic cereals though. Hare Krishna

"U r forced to have your kid vaccinated to attend public school." Actually most states in the U.S. do not require vaccination by law. Generally there are three types of exemptions: medical, religious, and philisophical. Only two states limit the exemption to medical, and many permit all three. However, you won't hear that from the schools or the vaccination authorities. You have to read the law. For instance here in Pennsylvania, we have all three exemptions, but it is almost unknown. A call to the Health Department will probably result in them saying it's mandatory for attending school. However, the law on the books specifically says otherwise, and that's what counts. Of course the U.S. government may suspend the exemptions if they decide to, in which case we'll have to hide.

We should also consider what's in the vaccines and how they're developed. It's like injecting pure sin. Take for example "fetal bovine serum," which makes up the fluid portion of vaccines. To get that, first they rape a cow; then they abort the fetus; next they drain its blood; then they remove the solid components. What's left, the liquid, is fetal bovine serum. That's what the half-killed germs float in. (How they produce these half-killed germs is another story...) Who believes that good health can come from this? Hare Krishna

Is empirical evidence proof of anything? In this case, though, it actually supports the Vedic presentation that the whole system gets screwed up in Kali-yuga, and asuras get a chance to be so-called brahmanas. Hare Krishna

Is empirical evidence proof of anything? In this case, though, it actually supports the Vedic presentation that the whole system gets screwed up in Kali-yuga, and asuras get a chance to be so-called brahmanas. Hare Krishna

The best way to recognize true devotees is to become one yourself. Hare Krishna

but this is a lame "spiritual discussion," and that's the last I'm going to say about it because I'd like the subject line to move off the front page.

Although it's only remotely related to this topic, I feel like mentioning that our local public library has as Bhagavad-gita translated and commentary by Swami Tripurari. When I saw it, I lost some respect for him. There is no mangalacaranam to speak of, and he hardly even mentions Srila Prabhupada, except to say that he wanted his disciples to write books. It seemed to me that Srila Prabhupada probably meant to write other books that he hadn't just translated and written commentary on! I mean, who would want their edition of Bhagavad-gita sitting on the shelf next to Bhagavad-gita As It Is. Did Swami Tripurari think his edition would be an improvement? Flipping through it, I couldn't find any mention of the importance of chanting Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare/ Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare, which, at least in my opinion, is the most important part of Srila Prabhupada's commentary. Krishna said surrender, and Lord Caitanya taught how: Chant Hare Krishna.

Free will is just a matter of serving Krishna voluntarily or by force of nature. It is important to remember that the living entity has free will, and that living entity is the soul, not the body. Every body does what Krishna wants. The soul has the choice to like it or not. The wise soul rejoices in Krishna's freedom.

Is anyone else getting tired of seeing the heading "Lord Swaminarayan is God" at the top of the Subjects page? Doesn't the Swaminarayan crowd have a message board on their web page? This topic was entertaining for about one day, but it's getting a bit old. Hare Krishna All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

I just found something I wrote a while back, I think on 10/21/01. I hope you like it. Posted by : paul108 Subject : Ode to War Message : om ajana-timitandhasya jnananjana-salakaya caksur unmilitam yena tasmai sri-gurave namah nama om visnu-padaya krsna-presthaya bhu-tale srimate bhakrivedanta-svamin iti namine Whether Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Jew, or not; feeling, I am flesh and bones, mistaken. There is One Religion, everyone follows it. One Truth everyone knows it. One God is plenty - everyone loves Them! (fathom that) The things of this world, illusion. The Lord is there, while no less here... No one can count His names or Her glories or measure the love of Their devotees. jaya sri-krsna-caitanya prabhu nityananda sri-advaita gadadhara srivasadi-gaura-bhakra-vrinda hare krsna hare krsna krsna krsna hare hare hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare

Regarding the comparison of the guru to a math teacher, it's worthwhile to note that the basic principles must be consistent no matter what the level of teaching. Just as a person who teaches 2+2=5 is a fraud, the same goes for a guru who teaches that one can pursue sense gratification and spiritual life at the same time. The "great" guru may not teach his disciples to avoid sense gratification, but that is only because that has already been learned by them. Moreover, in spiritual life, the chanting of Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Hare Hare/ Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare, being both the easiest method of self-realization and the most sublime, should be taught by all teachers regardless of the grade of their students. Why waste time?

Get ready for a weird story. Some years ago I was staying in a hotel for a week for some training for my job, and I was very bored. I hadn't been a very good devotee for a while, and my chanting of Hare Krishna was very irregular. I'm surprised I brought my japa beads with me because I hadn't been using them much. Anyway, another guy had some dried herb, _Salvia divinorum_ (diviner's sage) which he gave to me to try. After he left, I smoked some; and within a few seconds I fell back on the bed and began chanting Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare, with intense concentration and speed. I quickly lost awareness of my body, but I kept chanting. I felt the chanting was coming right from my soul, and that it was lifting maya off of me. I wanted to know where Krishna was, and felt that He was hiding very near by. This went on for about 15 minutes, after which I was back in the hotel room. Thinking that was quite a cure for my boredom, I tried it again. This time was different. I smoked some more, and within about 15 seconds I had stripped naked and went on all-fours. Again I forgot about my body, but this time I felt that I was a cow. I was lined up with more cows behind me, and some in front of me. Their moos sounded pitiful, and I realized that we were in line to be slaughtered. I was not thinking at all like a person in a cow's body, rather I felt exactly like a cow, with a cow's intelligence. I noticed that the moos behind me were getting louder, and the ones in front were getting fewer. Finally, when there were probably just two or three cows alive in front of me, a sound came to my mind, "Krishna." Immediately I was back in my naked human body, where I quickly got dressed, grateful for that narrow escape. Fool that I am, I tried it one more time, with half the amount of herb. In a moment I entered the body of a sow, with little piglets drinking milk from me. Horrified, and I prayed like crazy to Krishna, and He brought me back without delay. I chanted on my japa beads the rest of the night, and practically the entire next day. Those japa beads coupled with the Hare Krishna mahamantra quickly became my best friends again. I wonder if those experiences as animals had anything to do with reincarnation, past lives perhaps (hopefully not future!) I really didn't like being a pig, nor a cow awaiting slaughter, though I really appreciated Krishna saving me! Hare Krishna

Bhag. 6.4.26 seems to further explain with B.g. 2.69. What is night for all beings is the time of awakening for the self-controlled; and the time of awakening for all beings is night for the introspective sage. Hare Krishna

From what I've heard and can figure from it, Krishna had 16,108 wives. There were 16,000 princesses whom He rescued, Rukmini, and that leaves 107 remaining. That would be the principle gopis minus Radharani. I'd welcome corrections.

If you believe advaita is the ultimate truth, whom are you trying to enlighten?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/comp/articleshow?artid=33582250 Jesus used cannabis to heal ailments: Study ANI[ MONDAY, JANUARY 06, 2003 07:34:16 PM ] WASHINGTON: A new study of scriptural texts has revealed that Jesus and his disciples used cannabis to heal sufferings of many during that time. According to a report in The Guardian, the study suggests that the drug was used to cure problems like eye and skin diseases as referred to in the Gospels. The anointing oil used by Jesus and his disciples contained an ingredient called kaneh-bosem which has since been identified as cannabis extract, says an article by Chris Bennett in the drugs magazine, High Times, entitled "Was Jesus a Stoner"? The incense used by Jesus in ceremonies also contained a cannabis extract, suggests Bennett, who quotes scholars to back his claims, the report adds. "There can be little doubt about a role for cannabis in Judaic religion," Carl Ruck, professor of classical mythology at Boston University stated. Referring to the existence of cannabis in anointing oils used in ceremonies, he added: "Obviously the easy availability and long-established tradition of cannabis in early Judaism... would inevitably have included it in the [Christian] mixtures." Bennett suggests those anointed with the oils used by Jesus were "literally drenched in this potent mixture. Although most modern people choose to smoke or eat pot, when its active ingredients are transferred into an oil-based carrier, it can also be absorbed through the skin". Quoting the New Testament, Bennett argues that Jesus anointed his disciples with the oil and encouraged them to do the same with other followers. This could have been responsible for healing eye and skin diseases referred to in the Gospels. "If cannabis was one of the main ingredients of the ancient anointing oil... and receiving this oil is what made Jesus the Christ and his followers Christians, then persecuting those who use cannabis could be considered anti-Christ," Bennett concludes.

I would really like to get this. Hare Krishna

I studied advaita philosophy (mostly Vasistha's Yoga) for about 3 years before Krishna set me straight, but still if I think about advaita, I get bewildered by it and need hurry to the Bhagavad-gita As It Is for shelter. I think I would have been better off as a heroin junkie than a student of advaita philosophy. Not much difference, really. Hare Krishna

I studied advaita philosophy (mostly Vasistha's Yoga) for about 3 years before Krishna set me straight, but still if I think about advaita, I get bewildered by it and need hurry to the Bhagavad-gita As It Is for shelter. I think I would have been better off as a heroin junkie than a student of advaita philosophy. Not much difference, really. Hare Krishna

Something I noticed recently: Christians often claim that Jesus is the only son of God, yet the prayer that Jesus taught begins, "Our Father..." Perhaps the rest of us are all daughters? Hare Krishna

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/12/22/moon.madness.ap/index.html CAPE CANAVERAL, Florida (AP) -- Is that the moon or a studio in the Nevada desert? How can the flag flutter when there's no wind on the moon? Why can't we see stars in the moon-landing pictures? For three decades, NASA has taken the high road, ignoring those who claimed the Apollo moon landings were faked and part of a colossal government conspiracy. The claims and suspicious questions like the ones cited here mostly showed up in books and on the Internet. But last year's prime-time Fox TV special on the so-called "moon hoax" prompted schoolteachers and others to plead with NASA for factual ammunition to fight back. So a few months ago, the space agency budgeted $15,000 to hire a former rocket scientist and author to produce a small book refuting the disbelievers' claims. It would be written primarily with teachers and students in mind. The idea backfired, however, embarrassing the space agency for responding to ignorance, and the book deal was chucked. "The issue of trying to do a targeted response to this is just lending credibility to something that is, on its face, asinine," NASA chief Sean O'Keefe said in late November after the dust settled. So it's back to square one -- ignoring the hoaxers. That's troubling to some scientific experts who contend that someone needs to lead the fight against scientific illiteracy and the growing belief in pseudoscience like aliens and astrology. Someone like NASA. "If they don't speak out, who will?" asks Melissa Pollak, a senior analyst at the National Science Foundation. Author James Oberg will. The former space shuttle flight controller plans to write the book NASA commissioned from him even though the agency pulled the plug. He's seeking money elsewhere. His working title: "A Pall Over Apollo." Tom Hanks will speak out, too. The Academy Award-winning actor, who starred in the 1995 movie "Apollo 13" and later directed the HBO miniseries "From the Earth to the Moon," is working on another lunar-themed project. The IMAX documentary will feature Apollo archival footage. Its title: "Magnificent Desolation," astronaut Buzz Aldrin's real-time description of the moon on July 20, 1969. While attending the Cape Canaveral premiere of the IMAX version of "Apollo 13" in November, Hanks said the film industry has a responsibility to promote historical literacy. He took a jab at the 1978 movie "Capricorn One," which had NASA's first manned mission to Mars being faked on a sound stage. "We live in a society where there is no law in making money in the promulgation of ignorance or, in some cases, stupidity," Hanks said. "There are a lot of things you can say never happened. You can go as relatively quasi-harmless as saying no one went to the moon. But you also can say that the Holocaust never happened." A spokesman for the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington says there will always be those who will not be convinced. But the museum does not engage them in debate. The spokesman acknowledges, however, that if a major news channel was doing a program that questioned the authenticity of the Holocaust, "I'd certainly want to inject myself into the debate with them in a very forceful way." Television's Fox Network was the moon-hoax purveyor. In February 2001 and again a month later, Fox broadcast an hourlong program titled "Conspiracy Theory: Did We Land on the Moon?" Roger Launius, who agreed to Oberg's book just before leaving NASA's history office, says the story about the moon hoax has been around a long time. But the Fox show "raised it to a new level, it gave it legs and credibility that it didn't have before." Indeed, the National Science Foundation's Pollak says two of her colleagues, after watching the Fox special, thought it was possible that NASA faked the moon landings. "These are people who work at NSF," she stresses. The story went -- and still goes -- something like this: America was desperate to beat the Soviet Union in the high-stakes race to the moon, but lacked the technology to pull it off. So NASA faked the six manned moon landings in a studio somewhere out West. Ralph Rene, a retired carpenter in Passaic, N.J., takes it one step farther. The space fakery started during the Gemini program, according to Rene, author of the 1992 book, "NASA Mooned America!" "I don't know what real achievements they've done because when do you trust a liar?" Rene says. "I know we have a shuttle running right around above our heads, but that's only 175 miles up. It's under the shield. You cannot go through the shield and live." He's talking, of course, about the radiation shield. Alex Roland, a NASA historian during the 1970s and early 1980s, says his office used to have "a kook drawer" for such correspondence and never took it very seriously. But there were no prime-time TV shows disputing the moon landings then -- and no Internet. Still, Roland would be inclined to "just let it go because you'll probably just make it worse by giving it any official attention." Within NASA, opinions were split about a rebuttal book. Oberg, a Houston-based author of 12 books, mostly about the Russian space program, said ignoring the problem "just makes this harder. To a conspiracy mind, refusing to respond is a sign of cover-up." Phil Plait, a Sonoma State University astronomer who picks apart the moon hoaxers' claims on his "Bad Astronomy" Web site, agrees that NASA should have followed through with the book but understands why it didn't. "It became, as things like this do, a media circus. And by circus, I mean more like carnival," Plait says, toot-toot-tootling like a calliope. He warns, "There's a lot of antiscientific thinking and if this stuff is allowed to continue, it's going to spell doom for our country." Apollo 13 commander Jim Lovell does not know what else, if anything, can be done to confront this moon madness. "All I know is that somebody sued me because I said I went to the moon," says the 74-year-old astronaut. "Of course, the courts threw it out." The authorities also threw out the case involving Apollo 11 moonwalker Aldrin in September. A much bigger and younger man was hounding the 72-year-old astronaut in Beverly Hills, Calif., calling him "a coward and a liar and a thief" and trying to get him to swear on a Bible, on camera, that he walked on the moon. Aldrin, a Korean War combat pilot, responded with a fist in the chops. Compare this with the gentle disbelievers of yesteryear. For its last manned moon shot 30 years ago this month, NASA invited Charlie Smith, a former slave reputed to be 130 years old. Smith was impressed by the nighttime liftoff of Apollo 17, but said afterward he still did not believe the astronauts were flying to the moon. "It just can't happen," he insisted. Ron Howard's grandfather also did not believe men went to the moon. Howard grew up to become the director of "Apollo 13."

Shvu, Yesterday I stumbled across a thread from two years ago ( http://www.indiadivine.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000137.html ), and I was surprised at what I saw. I was wondering if you still entertain these ideas such as: I, for one, have no faith, but I got a drop of mercy. Once maybe I had a tiny speck of faith, but Krishna drenched that speck with a drop of mercy. He practicaly washed it away, as if no longer needed, "Here is mercy." You've said that no one can prove that there is a God, but actually Krishna can prove Himself quite effectively if He so chooses. I would suggest that if you haven't already done so, at least modify your views so that you are only expressing your own doubt. At this moment I am listening to "Address Chandigarh 1976-10-17 Let Krishna Speak for Himself.MP3" I just heard Srila Prabhupada say in this connection, (beginning with quoting Krishna) ''In order to know Me, God, without any doubt, in completeness,...I am personally speaking to you.' That means if you want to know God, you can know Him when He explains Himself. Otherwise you cannot speculate. God is unlimited and your speculative power is limited. You cannot understand God without the mercy of God. That is the verdict of the Vedic literature.' If you want to know Krishna, you have to take the risk and assume that Krishna is God. Not 50%; 100%. Otherwise you cannot begin to study Bhagavad-gita. Then we can have meaningful talk. Hare Krishna Paul

Shvu said, "The point is, objectively speaking, Krishna is a hindu God as has been universally recognized." Materially conditioned people do not have an objective viewpoint, and their opinions have no more effect on the position of God than an ant's. The only objective viewpoint is Krishna's. People can relate to Krishna any way they like, and the only difference it makes is whether they become fortunate or unfortunate, devotee or demon. Hare Krishna