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suchandra

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Posts posted by suchandra

  1.  

    Well then please clear up Kulapavana's doubt by supplying the answer to his questions. "Just believe brothers" is not enough.

     

    http://www.indiaheritage.org/rendez/article1.htm#age

    We are presently in the Kali-yuga of the 28th Maha-yuga - one Maha-yuga is 4,320,000 years and just one day (kalpa) of Brahma's life consists of 1000 Maha-yugas. His night is equally long. At the beginning of every day creation starts and 360 such days and nights make one year of Brahma.

    According to the Puranas, Brahma just had his 50th birthday.

    On just one day of Lord Brahma there're 1000 appearances of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu but do we know about the courses of the Sankirtan Mission of other yugas?

    Presently we are in the 28th Maha-yuga of 1000 Maha-yugas of Lord Brahma's fiftieth year, so, whenever sastra makes historical mention without further detail the importance is to understand the principle and NOT the date of that incident. Same with the biblical Flood, it is mentioned together with important lessons but when exactly this huge Flood took place no one knows. But people tend to push the lessons aside and focus on what is not mentioned.

  2. Intellectually a splendid gesture - obviously Americans like to be in war (isn't the whole nation build upon genocide?), in fact by now they cant stop war without having a severe commercial crisis since millions of US workstations depend on war.

     

    "Taking Israel's assistance to bamboozle the US administration to swing our way":

     

    There’s a way to use the USA to contain Pakistan!

    http://www.indiareacts.com/archivedebates/nat2.asp?recno=1455

     

    imageread.asp?recno=14558 August 2006: Whenever the India, Pakistan question is considered, there is a linkage drawn to the Israelis and Palestinians, or earlier, the Israelis and Egyptians, although Egypt has since gone out of the reckoning. These two linkages, the one earlier with Egypt and the prevailing one with the Palestinians, does not hold good, and insofar as two situations are never the same, this is not even similar. A more instructive link can be drawn between India-Pakistan on one hand and the Israelis-Arabs on the other.

     

    The Palestinians are not a state like Pakistan, not yet, but their fighting comes from Arab backing, although even this is under duress. The Arabs have never really cared for the Palestinians, but they cannot openly denounce them. But more than the Palestinians, the Arabs find it difficult to accept the existence of Israel amidst them, and although most of them in one way or another have accepted Israel’s right to exist, it is still a reality they find hard to live with.

    This duality about Israel has been forced on the Arabs by the Americans, who remain the world’s greatest power, and who generally put their monies where their mouth is. Israel is their greatest ally in the region, their only natural ally, and they will move the earth, as they say, to secure its interests. Therefore, in many days of savage Israeli bombing of the equally savage Hezbollah cadres, the world has been unable to step in and force a peace, because the Americans want the Hezbollah taught a lesson. This attempted “pacification” of the Hezbollah is relatively recent, the Arabs have been by and large pacified in relation to Israel before, again by the Americans, and there are lessons to draw from this.

    It is futile to expect the Americans to entirely de-hyphenate India and Pakistan, although some measure of difference has been instituted in the relations. While Pakistan is America’s MNNA ally, by virtue of which it gets arms aid, including the F-16s now, India is being cultivated strategically, by such means as the civilian nuclear deal. That deal, incidentally, is put on a plane of making India and China civilian nuclear powers who will grow less petroleum dependent and therefore less dependent on Middle East oil. Less oil from the Middle East means less funding for terrorism.

    But despite this qualitative difference between India-US and US-Pak relations, on issues like Kashmir, terrorism, America keeps us joined. For example, the visiting US under-secretary of state, Richard Boucher, said Kashmir was a separate issue from terrorism, which carried the sting that it was a dispute which had to be resolved outside the framework of terrorism. And on terrorism, he preferred to call the Bombay blasts a “tragedy”, he admitted “pieces” of terrorism directed against India could be located in Pakistan, but he was insistent that Pakistan, the US and India were all victims of terrorism. What do you make out cutting through Boucher’s dross? That Pakistan directed terrorist acts against India won’t fundamentally alter US-Pakistan relations, and the United States will press for the India-Pakistan peace process to continue at any cost. The second conclusion is that the US has not given up on a Kashmir solution that satisfies Pakistan whether or not it does India.

    This is where the Israeli-Arab relationship, so hugely shaped by the United States, leaves lessons.

    Now, this has been known, but the time for it has arrived, India’s major cultivation of the US establishment through the powerful Indian community. On the Indo-US civilian nuclear agreement, this Indian community acted as our strongest, unpaid lobby group. This community must now, under the Indian government’s intelligent direction, work to put us on a par with the Israelis in the American administration, which not only comprises the administration, the Congress, but the army of opinion makers, including the media, the influencers, the think tanks, and outside the establishment, public opinion.

    In the early NDA years, soon after the May 1998 Pokhran blasts, this was attempted, with the help of Israeli groups in the US, but the timing may have been wrong. We did not have the economic/ financial muscle we have today, we were not readily accepted as a world power as we are today, and the nuclear tests sucked our energies in giving justification, trying to save ourselves from sanctions, and so on. Now that we are past some of our hurdles, the time to do a second Israel on America is at hand.

    See how the Americans have pacified the Arabs, an infinitely larger task than pacifying a single state like Pakistan. Not one Arab state has stepped “out of line” in the Israeli-Hezbollah war, and this is more than a factor of Iran’s ally, the Hezbollah, getting as good as it gives, or worse. There is also talk of moderate and hard line Arabs. And there is recognition of sorts that Israel has a right to defend itself, to secure its borders, and protect its citizens. Within the Israeli-Arab-US paradigm, therefore, Israel has carved out a special place. We should do the same with Pakistan. We are on track with our relations with Israel, and we should take their assistance to bamboozle the US administration to swing our way. If we think our way through this, it can be done.

  3.  

    I recommend Karmi school. It's bad advice but unfortunately, what other choice do people have? We don't live in Vedic times any more and students that are not equipped with 'materialistic' knowledge will have trouble surviving in this modern society.

     

    Since in the West the Vaishnava communities mostly broke apart due to different reasons there isn't a proper infrastucture with Gurukulas, solid Vaishnava association, Vaishnava companies. When Srila Prabhupada attended the British University in Calcutta there was a similiar situation, no proper Vaishnava community, no proper Vaishnava schools, no Vaishnava companies to work at. Karmi schools are just meant to train your material abilities, nothing more. When devotees learn how to drive a car do they go to a Vaishnava driving school? When your child doesnt get a proper education and has to maintain a family, forget Gurukula education, it's not even worth secondary school level. So far there are no jobs in Vaishnava companies, nothing. So your child has to earn money in karmi companies or become a monk. In case your child doesnt want to become a monk and wants to earn enough money to maintain a family we need an adequate education for earning lots of money in the most easy way. This is never possible without College and University study. Many Gurukulis complained of having been forced to work for their whole live in low class jobs because they didnt get proper education. Usually from 10 devotee kids only 2 decide to live like devotees in the temple. My daughter just finished High School and next she wants to make her Doctor of Laws. With this kind of education she will be also treated more respectful by the temple devotees (mostly school breakers without professional training) who usually consider women as less intelligent and hopefully she can help the Vaishnava movement in many ways that will result in more facilitities for future Vaishnava generations.

  4.  

    Hare Krishna!

    You udder believe it.

    I need a picture or drawing of what it looks like in the inside of a cow's

    udder.

    When I learned how to milk 25 years ago, I was always told not to pull down

    the nipple, because it can insure the inside tissues of the udder.

    My milkman has the habit of not only pulling down a lot, but also to

    squeeze some parts of the udder quite a bit.

    Anyway, to make the story short, I need a picture to be able to better

    explain to him how he may injure the fine tissues inside the udder if he

    keeps his practices.

     

    Please help!

     

    Any article about proper milking practices and or plenty of pictures will be

    greatly appreciated. I need mainly pictures or drawings, as my milkman is

    illiterate.

     

    your servant,

    Hrimati dasi

     

    Haribol Hrimati dasi, at http://137.222.110.150/calnet/abdpel12/page2.htm

    you might find what you're looking for.

  5.  

    Maybe all the abusers, molestors, criminals and gays can start their own society of devotees together if they feel a need for an institutional structure in their lives?

     

    Europe's and NA's temples are anyway empty, why care about people who are according normal law worst rascal criminals?

     

     

     

    http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/PARLMENT/hansArt.nsf/V3Key/LC20000620011

     

    It is also relevant to note the high rates of recidivism among child sex offenders. A range of international studies has put re-offending rates for sexual offenders at between 15 and 45 per cent. One Canadian study that was conducted in 1988 found that the re-offending rates over a 10-year period for untreated offenders who had molested non-familial children was 42.9 per cent. For offenders who had received treatment, the rate dropped considerably, but it was still 17.9 per cent for those who had molested girls and 13.3 per cent for those who had molested boys. It is not surprising then that many people in the community feel that they should have a right to know if a convicted child molester comes to live amongst them.

     

  6. Article below from Business Standard says, there're five Ayurveda products coming from the cow, one item and its effect is mentioned, what are the other four?

     

     

    Blessings From the Holy Cow

     

    BY: GEETANJALI KRISHNA

     

     

     

    Aug 5, NEW DELHI, INDIA (BUSINESS STANDARD) —
    Watch out!” I shouted stupidly in the crowded vegetable market, when a cow making off with a mouthful of stolen cabbage peed on my feet. Hopping with irritation, I looked around to see who the animal belonged to. There was no likely looking owner around, but an old vegetable seller was looking amused at my plight. “Don’t fret, there’s nothing dirty about cow’s urine!” said he, “and people say that it’s best when fresh.” I glared at him: I wonder if you’d have said the same thing if it had been you, not me, at the receiving end of the cow’s benediction.” The old man laughed and said, “you’re talking to someone who holds cow urine in great esteem - I use it as an antiseptic, as a treatment for fungal skin infections and for many other things!”

     

     

    Cow’s urine, said he, was one of the five products from cows which the Ayurveda lists as being invaluable for health, the others being ghee, curd, milk and dung. “I heard that there is research going on about its role in curing diseases like cancer and diabetes,” said he, “that is why hygienically packaged cow’s urine is even more expensive than cow’s milk!” I shuffled my toes uncomfortably, desperate for a wash, but this conversation was proving strangely fascinating.

     

     

    Did he have a cow of his own? I asked. “In my village in Eastern UP, I do. And it’s the most useful animal to have around. We use the dung to cake the floors and walls of our house to keep them cool and clean. It is also the best salve to cool burns and skin rashes. The urine, especially when it is fresh, is a better antiseptic wash for wounds and cuts and cure for skin infections, than any harsh Western medicine!” said he. This I could believe, for I’d recently met a motorcycle enthusiast who always carried bottled cow pee in his tool-kit, using it not just on cuts, but also to bathe his eyes during long trips on his two-wheeler.

     

     

    Perhaps the old vegetable seller felt I ought to know he wasn’t alone in his appreciation of cows and their excretory products. So he told me that the Sangh Parivar had a huge programme to educate the masses about the value of cow products - especially the ones that cows themselves obviously didn’t want. “They make tooth powder from the ash obtained from burning cow dung,” said he with unseemly relish, “as well as body cleansers, incense sticks and believe it or not, after shave!”

     

     

    He had tried the tooth powder, he said, and it was great. I edged a little further from the old vegetable seller and asked, “but surely men use after shave not only for its antiseptic qualities, but also because it smells good?” He shook his head, exasperated at the extent of my lack of belief: “Come with me, I’ve a bottle of cow’s urine behind my shop that I want you to smell!” I balked. He insisted. I balked even more. In resignation, he muttered, “How else will you understand it is completely odourless? To be exact, it does have a faint, not at all unpleasant aroma.”

     

    I had had enough. “Is it also good to wash vegetables in?” I asked innocently. He thought for a minute: “I don’t know, I’ve never tried it. Come to think of it, it might prove to be an excellent rinse for raw vegetables.” he said, actually giving it serious consideration. I heaved a sigh of relief and said, “In that case, can I have a kilo of spinach please?”

     

     

  7.  

    ayurveda, as well as homoeopathy, makes extensive use of heavy metals, such as mercury, lead, cadmium and others. they are used in prerparations like makaradvaja, in such amounts that they work as medicines.

    everything is poison. whether it acts as poison or medicine, depends on the dosage. even if the total amount of a metal in a medicine is toxic when taken in toto, that does not mean that the small doses you take are toxic!

     

     

    China and India are poisoning themselves in ways that will be difficult and costly to reverse.

     

    http://www.sos-arsenic.net/

     

    Every single piece of farmland is bombarded with fertiliser, pesticide by totally uneducated, ignorant people.

    Critics say India has become the developed world's dumping ground, rapidly poisoning itself and its billion-plus people with toxins from both the waste and the pollution from the sometimes dangerous methods used to recycle it.

    Every year, India imports millions of tonnes of plastic, steel, other metals and discarded computers to break down and re-use, often with unskilled workers ignorant of the risks.

    Already babies are born there with such a high arsenic contamination that it is real critical.

     

    "Our world faces a crisis as yet unpreceived by

    those possesing power to make great decisions

    for good or evil..... a new type of thinking is

    essential if mankind is to survive."

    Einstein on Peace

  8.  

    with the US admin. They are incompetent as to the art of successful warfare. This is why Swarzkoph, the real general hero of Gulf #1 (as opposed to the liar and me lai implicated powell), opposed from the very outset.

     

    The force gets you in, but now you are in a prison camp, surrounded. We one, but we didnt leave when the leaving was good, in other words, no exit strategy=pitiful defeat at the hands of lesser military force.

     

    But these armegoddonists dont care, they just want the end to come so their jesus h. antichrist will come on a cloud and rapture them away. But the real Lord Jesus knows them not. We are allowed to defend, but we have no allowance to kill innocents. We have force, but so did aswattama, the most infamous antihero of all time, because he had no knowledge of how to use such force.

     

    mahak

     

    76/12/12 Hyderabad, Bhagavad-gita 2.12

    Srila Prabhupada:

    na tv evaham jatu nasam

    na tvam neme janadhipah

    na caiva na bhavisyamah

    sarve vayam atah param

    [bg. 2.12]

    Krsna says that na tu eva aham na tvam na ime janadhipah: “Either I or you or all these people who have assembled here in this battlefield, janadhipah, kings…” In the battlefield, janadhipah, they are not ordinary men. Now in the battlefield the poor mercenaries, they go to give their life, whereas the janadhipah, the leaders of the people, they sit down very comfortably. They do not go to the battlefield. They simply give order in writing, and the poor mercenaries, paid soldiers, they are paid for giving their life. Money is so sweet that one is prepared to give his life for money. Such men are sent to the war field. And the janadhipah, they are after also money, but they carefully avoid the battlefield. Minister of Defense, perhaps he has never seen a battlefield, Minister of Defense. Formerly it was not like that. When there was fight, because they are ksatriyas… Ksatriyas, they will never go back from fighting. Yuddhe capy apalayanam. That is the symptom of ksatriya. When there is fight, they will come forward first. Sauryam tejo… Viryam yuddhe capy apalayanam isvara-bhavas ca danam ca. Ksatriyas means they are very powerful, strong, and when there is fight, a ksatriya, if he is challenged by somebody that “I want to fight with you,” he cannot deny. “Yes. What kind of fight you want, bows, arrows, or club, or sword?” Any way they will fight. And fight means until one is dead, the fight will go on. That is fight.

    When Krsna and Arjuna and Bhima went to Jarasandha… Jarasandha was very powerful king. So before Maharaja Yudhisthira’s becoming the emperor, it was the system that all the other kings within this world, they must submit, either submit or fight. So Krsna and Arjuna and Bhima went to Jarasandha. He was very charitable to the brahmanas, and these three persons went there, dressing themselves as poor brahmanas. So in the assembly they begged from Jarasandha, “Sir, we have come to beg from you for fight.” Krsna, to save the other soldiers, He advised that “Let us fight with Jarasandha alone. Why he should unnecessarily bring so many soldiers and we have to also? Why these poor soldiers will give life? Better go, let us individually fight.” So Jarasandha could understand that “They are ksatriyas. They have come in the dress of a brahmana to beg,” because ksatriya cannot beg. So he accepted, “Yes.” Then he selected Bhima to fight with him. He rejected Arjuna and Krsna also, that “You are not fit for fighting with me.” So there was fighting for twenty-eight days. Fighting was going on from morning to evening. And at night they were friends. Bhima, Arjuna, and Krsna was the guest, and he received them as guests. They were eating together, talking together. In the morning again fighting. This is ksatriya. It is sport, sporting, but that sporting was meant for… Until one dies, the fighting will go on.

    So yuddhe capy apalayanam. This is the qualification of ksatriya. So here it is said, Krsna… Krsna is chariot driver of Arjuna. So He says, janadhipah. There were many kings. Different parts of the world, they joined. Janadhipah, the leaders, when there is fight the leaders must come forward. And as soon as the leaders are killed, then it is victory, not by killing the soldiers or common men by atomic bomb. No. That was not fighting. So Krsna says, na tu eva aham. Krsna is individual person. God is person also. Vetti. The one who does not know what is God, they think impersonally, but God is person. Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He appeared upon this earth as person, as the son of Vasudeva. He acted as person. The original God is person, not imperson. Imperson is a feature. Just like the sunshine. This is an imperson, but the sunshine is coming from the sun globe. That is local place, and within the sun globe there is sun god. He’s person. He’s not imperson. Similarly, the impersonal feature, brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate [sB 1.2.11], Absolute Truth… The imperson is a feature of God, anga-jyoti. Yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti [bs. 5.40]. It is the bodily rays, impersonal Brahman. But God is person. Here He said that na tu eva aham. Aham means “I am person,” jatu, “at any time,” nasam, “we are not annihilated.” Na tu, na tvam: “You are also not annihilated.” Because Arjuna is jiva, and Krsna is God, so both of them are existing, part and parcel. Just like this sunshine.

    What is the sunshine? It is very small atomic particles of shining material. This is sunshine, combined together. Similarly, we are also a small particle of the rays, bodily rays of God. We are living entities, very minute particle. Mamaivamso jiva-bhutah jiva-loke sanatanah [bg. 15.7]. So we are also individual, and God is also individual person. “And all the kings, all the soldiers assembled, they are also individual.” So this individuality is never lost. Krsna says that “At present we are individuals, and in the past we are individuals.” Then one may say, “In the future we may become one, amalgamated,” as the Mayavadi philosopher says that as soon as we become liberated, we become one with the Absolute. No, that is not fact. Here it is said, na ca eva na bhavisyamah: “It is not that in future we shall not remain individual. We shall remain individual.” Na bhavisyamah na. Two negatives makes one positive. That means “In the future also we shall exist as individual.” Na caiva na bhavisyamah sarve, “all of us.” “All” means Krsna says, “I, you, and all the other peoples, kings, and soldiers, we shall remain as individual.” Then where is oneness? This Mayavadi theory that after liberation we shall all become one with God, that is not mentioned here. This is bogus theory. Real, that we remain individual. So long we are not in a position to act means so long… Just like ghost. Ghost is also individual. But because the ghost does not get this material body they are invisible. They create disturbance for want of this body. Those who have got experience of ghost in some house, the ghost is there, he is individual soul, but because he hasn’t got this material covering, that is a punishment. For the most sinful person, that is a punishment, that he does not get this body, although he wants this body, because for enjoyment we want this body. Body is the combination of senses, instrument. If I want to touch you I require hand, and through hand I’ll feel the pleasure of touching you. So the ghost wants to touch, but he hasn’t got the instrument. That is ghost. But there are ghost. It is not fictitious. It is a fact. Ghost means without this material body.

    So so long we are materially contaminated, we require this material body for enjoying senses. And the spiritual world, we get our spiritual body developed. So there is no question of becoming ghost or… Individual, there is. The person is always existing. That is the purport of this verse. Na caiva na bhavisyamah sarve vayam atah param. Atah param, “after this,” means after this body is ended the individuality continues; simply we change our body. This is the version, and it is explained in the next verse, dehino ’smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara, tatha dehantara-praptih [bg. 2.13]. We are individual always, but we are changing this body from one type of body to another body according to our karma. Karmana daiva-netrena jantur deha-upapatti [sB 3.31.1]. By superior examination we get a body, karmana. So at the time of death it is decided what kind of body you are going to have next. That is decided by superior authority. You cannot dictate that “Give me this body,” or “I don’t want this body. I want a body…” No. That is not in your hand. You can do, you are given freedom. In the human form of life you are given freedom to act although there is direction that “You act like this.” But if you don’t like, you can act. Yathecchasi tatha kuru. You can act, but you become implicated with your karma because you have to act according to the modes of nature.

    The modes of nature are three: sattva-guna, rajo-guna, tamo-guna. So if you act in sattva-guna, then you will be promoted to the higher planetary system. Urdhvam gacchanti sattva-sthah [bg. 14.18]. If you act in the rajo-guna, then madhye tisthanti rajasah. And if you act in tamo-guna, then jaghanya-guna-vrtti-stha adho gacchanti tamasah. Jaghanya. Tamasah means very abominable activities. The other day I was speaking. I saw one gentleman, Indian gentleman. He was eating the intestines of hog in the airplane. That is very palatable, they say. Tamo-guna, most tamo-guna. Hog, the stool-eater, and its intestine, that is cooked, and he’s eating. How much tamo-guna. Jaghanya. Jaghanya guna-vrtti, very abominable. So next life he is going to be a hog. This is going on. We are in this material nature. Purusah prakrti-stho hi bhunkte prakrti-jan gunan [bg. 13.22]. We are in this material world according to our association with different modes of nature. We are making one type of mentality, and at the time of death, that mental position is responsible for carrying me in a different type of body. In this way we are changing body one after another.

    So we are spirit soul. This is the chance of rectifying or purifying our existence. If we like, we can purify our existence in this human form of life. This Krsna consciousness movement means to purify the existence, and after death, tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [bg. 4.9]. If you become perfect in Krsna consciousness, means you understand Krsna… Janma karma ca me divyam yo janati [bg. 4.9]. Simply by understanding and acting accordingly, you can purify your existence, and next life means after giving up this body… This body we have to give up. But those who are not purifying their existence, they will accept another material body. And those who have purified the existence, they will go back home, back to Godhead. Thank you very much. (end)

    >>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 2.12 — Hyderabad, December 12, 1976

  9.  

    ...........he clearly mentions non-vaishnava's with the use of these words; the leaders of society, the executive heads, the learned and intelligent men - do you see what I mean here?

    You're a big fool! Prabhupada never mentioned non-Vaishnavas!

    What are non-Vaishnavas in this age of kali? Hogs, dogs, camels and asses.

    Thats how Prabbhupada mentions non-Vaishnavas:

     

     

     

     

    sva-vid-varahostra-kharaih

    samstutah purusah pasuh

    na yat-karna-pathopeto

    jatu nama gadagrajah

     

    TRANSLATION: Men who are like dogs, hogs, camels and asses praise those men who never listen to the transcendental pastimes of Lord Sri Krsna, the deliverer from evils.

     

    PURPORT: The general mass of people, unless they are trained systematically for a higher standard of life in spiritual values, are no better than animals, and in this verse they have particularly been put on the level of dogs, hogs, camels and asses. Modern university education practically prepares one to acquire a doggish mentality with which to accept the service of a greater master. After finishing a so-called education, the so-called educated persons move like dogs from door to door with applications for some service, and mostly they are driven away, informed of no vacancy. As dogs are negligible animals and serve the master faithfully for bits of bread, a man serves a master faithfully without sufficient rewards.

    Persons who have no discrimination in the matter of foodstuff and who eat all sorts of rubbish are compared to hogs. Hogs are very much attached to eating stools. So stool is a kind of foodstuff for a particular type of animal. And even stones are eatables for a particular type of animal or bird. But the human being is not meant for eating everything and anything; he is meant to eat grains, vegetables, fruits, milk, sugar, etc. Animal food is not meant for the human being. For chewing solid food, the human being has a particular type of teeth meant for cutting fruits and vegetables. The human being is endowed with two canine teeth as a concession for persons who will eat animal food at any cost. It is known to everyone that one man's food is another man's poison. Human beings are expected to accept the remnants of food offered to Lord Sri Krsna, and the Lord accepts foodstuff from the categories of leaves, flowers, fruits, etc. (Bg. 9.26). As prescribed by Vedic scriptures, no animal food is offered to the Lord. Therefore, a human being is meant to eat a particular type of food. He should not imitate the animals to derive so-called vitamin values. Therefore, a person who has no discrimination in regard to eating is compared to a hog.

    The camel is a kind of animal that takes pleasure in eating thorns. A person who wants to enjoy family life or the worldly life of so-called enjoyment is compared to the camel. Materialistic life is full of thorns, and so one should live only by the prescribed method of Vedic regulations just to make the best use of a bad bargain. Life in the material world is maintained by sucking one's own blood. The central point of attraction for material enjoyment is sex life. To enjoy sex life is to suck one's own blo od, and there is not much more to be explained in this connection. The camel also sucks its own blood while chewing thorny twigs. The thorns the camel eats cut the tongue of the camel, and so blood begins to flow within the camel's mouth. The thorns, mixed with fresh blood, create a taste for the foolish camel, and so he enjoys the thorn-eating business with false pleasure. Similarly, the great business magnates, industrialists who work very hard to earn money by different ways and questionable means, eat the thorny results of their actions mixed with their own blood. Therefore the Bhagavatam has situated these diseased fellows along with the camels.

    The ass is an animal who is celebrated as the greatest fool, even among the animals. The ass works very hard and carries burdens of the maximum weight without making profit for itself. The ass is generally engaged by the washerman, whose social position is not very respectable. And the special qualification of the ass is that it is very much accustomed to being kicked by the opposite sex. When the ass begs for sexual intercourse, he is kicked by the fair sex, yet he still follows the female for such sexual pleasure. A henpecked man is compared, therefore, to the ass. The general mass of people work very hard, especially in the age of Kali. In this age the human being is actually engaged in the work of an ass, carrying heavy burdens and driving thela and rickshaws. The so-called advancement of human civilization has engaged a human being in the work of an ass. The laborers in great factories and workshops are also engaged in such burdensome work, and after working hard during the day, the poor laborer has to be again kicked by the fair sex, not only for sex enjoyment but also for so many household affairs.

    So Srimad-Bhagavatam's categorization of the common man without any spiritual enlightenment into the society of dogs, hogs, camels and asses is not at all an exaggeration. The leaders of such ignorant masses of people may feel very proud of being adored by such a number of dogs and hogs, but that is not very flattering. The Bhagavatam openly declares that although a person may be a great leader of such dogs and hogs disguised as men, if he has no taste for being enlightened in the science of Krsna, such a leader is also an animal and nothing more. He may be designated as a powerful, strong animal, or a big animal, but in the estimation of Srimad-Bhagavatam he is never given a place in the category of man, on account of his atheistic temperament. Or, in other words, such godless leaders of dogs and hoglike men are bigger animals with the qualities of animals in greater proportion[4] This verse indicates that those who praise men who are like animals are no better than dogs, hogs, camels and asses. Sva means "dog," vid-varaha means "stool-eating hog," ustra means "camel," and khara means "ass." If the Nobel Prize is given to a scientist who is a rascal, the men on the committee who give him that prize are no better than dogs, hogs, camels and asses. We don't accept them as human beings. One animal is praised by another animal. Where is the credit in that? If the men on the committee are no better than animals, anyone who receives the Nobel Prize in science is fool number one, because animals are praising him, not human beings. (2.3.19)

     

     

  10.  

     

    Israeli Bombardment Of Lebanon Escalation For World War Three

     

    Hyped incursions, kidnappings designed to trap Syria and Iran

    300106pjw.jpg

    Paul Joseph Watson & Alex Jones/Prison Planet.com | July 24 2006

    The Israeli bombardment of Lebanon is the next escalation of a conflict that is being orchestrated according to a set roadmap that leads directly to World War Three.

    Israel, the United States and Great Britain have been caught red-handed on numerous occasions staging terror attacks and false flag provocations in the Middle East for over 50 years.

    How can we any longer believe anything our governments tell us about their actions in the Middle East?

    Immediately after Bush's ultimatum to Iran which was rebuffed, conventional and normal captures and military incursions on both sides, when measured against the bellwether of the usual temperature of chaos in the region, are suddenly hyped beyond all proportion by the world media.

    Israel's bombardment of the length and breadth of Lebanon has been characterized by its targeting of innocent civilians - including two incidents in Marwaheen and Taire where civilians were ordered to leave an area whereupon their escape vehicles were deliberately pulverized by Israeli Hellfire missiles.

    At their root these are the very characteristics of a terrorist state engaging in terrorist attacks upon innocent populations.

    Meanwhile, Hezbollah's limited response has impacted mainly military targets - with many suggesting that the often recycled pictures of damage from Hezbollah rockets betrays the notion that thousands have been fired as the Israelis claim.

     

     

     

    ---------------------------

    TERRORSTORM: THE HISTORY OF GOVERNMENT SPONSORED TERROR

    ---------------------------

     

     

     

    Some would go further and finger the Israelis for attacking their own interests to maintain a false scapegoat and justification for further evisceration in Lebanon. Israel's documented history of manufacturing

    phony Al-Qaeda groups to demonize the Palestinians is without question.

    Israel's insistence that a ground war and an advance into northern Lebanon is not out of the question could bring the Syrians and their Iranian allies into the conflict which would in turn would present the saliva-drenched Neo-Cons with their long-awaited pretext to take Assad and Ahmadinejad out of the game.

    This is nothing less than a cooked escalation for war.

    As reported by New Yorker magazine, US troops and special operations forces have been active inside Iran for over a year waiting for the right opportunity to enact destabilization tactics once the green light is given.

    This is simply another fuse that has been lit to ignite the order out of chaos agenda that has already turned Iraq into a hellhole only stable enough for one foundational precedent - a limitless occupation and an endless slush fund of no-bid contracts for US government affiliated corporations. In addition, tight control of oil flow and jacked-up prices to promote artificial scarcity worldwide continue to benefit blueprints laid out by oil companies many years before.

    Whether it stops in Lebanon or rolls into Syria - this is the orchestration of World War 3, World War 4 to Neo-Cons - if only on the level of a trial balloon to judge how events will play out when a similar hand is dealt.

     

  11.  

    I denounce religious primitives who butcher other people using their religion as a prop. I denounce injustice regardless of whatever good intentions may be claimed by the perpetrators.

     

    Thanks Kula! Not only people - cows also. Am I right to assume that Bhakta Donald is a cheerleader of religious faiths whose core ritual is kosher butchering of cows also known as shehitah? Do you want us to respect this rascaldom as biblical faith?

    Since the US immigration office made endless troubles for Srila Prabhupada to stay and preach in USA it should be clear that he couldnt speak like he actually wanted especially against the bleeding to death of cows.

    Fortunately we can! So called religions - biblical or not bibilical but who preach and practice cow slaughter are nothing but demoniac subcultures which will be finally blown out by their own karmic reactions.

    However, if Bhakta Don considers the nations in Middle East as false followers of biblical faith, then why defend anyone involved with such enforcement?

    OK, Isreal is the only place in Middle East where Krishna Temples are allowed to preach/spread Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan Mission, this is the only valid argument to support Israel. But even on the website of ISKCON Israel

    http://www.yogaoflove.org you'll find a heavy warning of what happens to sinful people who butcher cows:

     

    20zraps.gif

     

    In sum, when there will be now total war in the Middle East, if at the end comes out that Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan Movement can spread to all those places like Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia etc - then all those war victims would make at least some sense. On the other hand Bhakta Donald is right - fundamentalistic Islamic nations are so demoniac that they kill Vaishnavas when spreading the Hare Krishna Mahamantra.

  12.  

    There is an ISKCON temple in Israel - is there any in Iran Syria and these other Middle east nations?

     

    I wonder about this comment you wrote - do you really think that there would be permitted a 'Vaishnava village in Jerusalem' if all the Israelis left there?

     

    Why do you think that the radical Islamists would permit its building?

     

    When you are defending these terrorist groups and their leaders you do say some peculiar things...:crazy:

     

    In 1966 there was a quite similiar situation:

     

    The following is an excerpt from a lecture by His Divine Grace on Bhagavad-gita 4.19 in New York, August 5, 1966.

     

    Nava-yauvana: Also they say that religions are the causes of war. In Lebanon now the Christians are killing the Muslims and the Muslims are killing the Christians in the name of...

     

    Prabhupada: And the Communists are killing capitalists and capitalists are killing Communists. What is that? Is that religion? Then? How you can stop war? Because you are animal, you fight, you can give some name, either on religious ground or this philosophical ground. But because you are animal you will fight. You can give a different name. That is different thing. But because you are dogs, you'll fight. The real religion is why they will fight? Religion means to accept God. So if you are Muslim, I am Hindu, if I accept God, if You accept God, then where is fight? If we accept that God is the proprietor, God is the father, then where is the question of fight? Because we are not religious, therefore fight. Otherwise, if you accept God is the supreme father, if I accept God is the supreme, why fight?

     

     

    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=550 align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle>Hell in the Holy Lands

     

     

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    Uzi Mahnaimi, Marie Colvin, Hala Jaber, Tony-Allen Mills and David Cracknell – The Sunday Times July 23, 2006

     

     

     

     

    On the border with Lebanon a unit of elite Israeli commandos was sheltering from the heat of battle and the sun under a huge oak. Among them was Max, the son of an eminent Jewish lawyer in London. As the occasional Katyusha rocket flew overhead, he was checking text messages from his mother who feared for his safety.

     

    Max, 24, had emigrated to Israel after graduating from Cambridge.

     

    He was performing his national service when the capture of two Israeli soldiers in a raid by Hezbollah, the Islamic militant group based in Lebanon, ignited the current crisis.

     

    Last week he found himself in the thick of the fighting as commando units struck into Lebanese territory in search of fortified bunkers built by Arab militants next to Israel’s northern border.

     

    “My parents are obviously worried and keep texting me, but at the same time they are also very proud of me for defending the state of Israel,” said Max, who asked that his surname not be used in case there were reprisals against his family in London.

     

    His parents had reason to fret. Despite more than a week of unrelenting Israeli bombardment of Hezbollah positions, Max’s Hornet battalion and several other units had run into serious trouble.

     

    “We entered a scrubby area looking for Hezbollah rocket launchers,” said one of the commandos hunting the underground sites used by the militiamen to target northern Israeli cities.

     

    The soldiers quickly found a steel trapdoor hidden by bushes. “We opened the door and discovered a well-equipped underground bunker with several rooms for up to 10 Hezbollah fighters,” the soldier said.

     

    The bunker was empty, but as an Israeli soldier came back through the trapdoor, a Hezbollah sniper struck, killing him with a bullet through the eye.

     

    “We were almost immediately ambushed. The Hezbollah know every rock and bush there,” said another of the soldiers. “We called in a chopper and it fired missiles. We used to fight the Palestinians, but these are a different breed of warriors, these Shi’ites.”

     

    After a heavy gun battle, the Israeli commandos withdrew.

     

    Another unit was operating nearby in the Lebanese border village of Maroun-a-Ras. Though it had been flattened by Israeli air attacks soon after its residents had fled, Hezbollah fighters remained in their bunkers, waiting for ground forces to arrive.

     

    On Thursday afternoon, Major Benjamin Hillman led his Israeli unit straight into another ambush.

     

    Both the major and one of his men were shot dead. When the remaining soldiers tried to turn back, they were ambushed again from another flank. Four more soldiers were killed.

     

    It was only under heavy artillery cover and with the help of a tank unit that the remaining soldiers were able, two hours later, to scramble back to the Israeli side.

     

    Resting by the towering oak tree, Max looked pale and tired as he stretched out his legs, still in his battle boots. He insisted he was ready to carry on fighting Hezbollah “to uproot them from their outposts”. But like many Israelis — and others — he was wondering how long that might take.

     

    Any hope that air power alone could destroy the threat posed by Hezbollah had evaporated. The militants, long backed by Syria and Iran, were better armed, better organised and better dug-in than expected.

     

    Israel, it emerged yesterday, has asked the US to rush through the delivery of precision-guided bombs, part of an arms deal agreed last year. Last week the move was swiftly agreed by the White House, and the weapons will be delivered within days. They are likely to include GBU-28s, 5,000lb laser-guided “bunker busters”.

     

    This weekend thousands of troops are massing on the border, as Israel prepares to create a “sterile strip” between itself and its enemies. Neither Washington nor London appears in any hurry to see an early end to the fighting, which has killed more than 360 Lebanese and at least 34 Israelis, wounded thousands, displaced hundreds of thousands and wreaked widespread devastation on southern Lebanon.

     

    As Tony Blair loyally toed the White House line of allowing Israel a free hand, Condoleezza Rice, the US secretary of state, completed her leisurely preparations for a brief diplomatic tour of the region.

     

    Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan have all blamed Hezbollah for provoking the conflict, and Rice will reportedly be seeking to gather an “umbrella” of moderate Arab allies who could yet reinvigorate the American-led drive for democracy in the Middle East.

     

    White House officials are using the term “umbrella” because “coalition” carries too many negative connotations of unresolved struggle in Iraq.

     

    Rice will not leave Washington until later today, and it was clear from her pronounced lack of urgency that President George W Bush had torn up previous manuals for Middle East crisis intervention. The White House played down the seriousness of the Lebanon crisis, characterising the death and destruction as the “birth pangs of a new Middle East”.

     

    Officials argued that it was pointless to negotiate with Hezbollah and that only its eradication could create the necessary conditions for a durable political settlement. The crisis was “an opportunity, not a setback”, insisted one senior US official.

     

    His words were echoed at 10 Downing Street, which said Britain and America were united in “seeking a sustainable peace . . . in which the paramilitaries’ tails did not wag the democratic dog”.

     

    Only a few weeks ago, Beirut was the Middle East’s Miami — a hedonistic melting pot of business and beaches attracting visitors from all over the world to a city that had been for years a byword for urban destruction during the Lebanese civil war. New construction included an $80m hotel project by Philippe Starck, the avant-garde French designer, a luxury marina development, new shopping malls and spas.

     

    “Beirut is a hive of activity,” a travel article in Wallpaper* magazine declared last month. “Maybe Lebanon is finally welcoming a time of peace and prosperity.”

     

    Behind the glitz, however, the power of Hezbollah had been steadily growing throughout southern Lebanon. The group has had six years since Israeli forces withdrew in 2000 to consolidate its position and amass a dangerous arsenal.

     

    Intelligence sources claim that a consignment of thousands of Katyusha rockets and other missiles was sent from Iran to Damascus airport in Syria last March. From there they were transported through Lebanon’s Bekaa Valley to Hezbollah bases near the Israeli border.

     

    Other sophisticated weapons in the hands of Hezbollah include an anti-ship cruise missile known as the C-802 — an Iranian-made variant of the Chinese Silkworm. One was used in an attack against an Israeli naval vessel on July 14.

     

    Israeli forensic experts say they have also established that a 220mm rocket used in an attack on Haifa last Sunday was made in Syria. The warhead was said to have been filled with ball-bearings — a commonplace terrorist tactic but unheard of in missile warfare.

     

    It was largely because the Israeli military sensed that the threat from both Hezbollah and Iran was growing — not least because of Tehran’s continuation of a nuclear programme that could be used to make bombs — that Tel Aviv reacted so forcefully after eight of its soldiers were killed and two seized on the border 11 days ago.

     

    Israel decided that a show of force was necessary to curb future aggression. Within hours a devastating air bombardment turned any hopes of Beirut’s tourist renaissance to dust.

     

    By last week the Haret Hreik district, home to the headquarters of Hezbollah and its leader, Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah, was reduced to rubble. In a week of Israeli bombing, scores of apartment buildings have collapsed. Streets are littered with personal belongings and broken furniture.

     

    Yet the Israeli media reported that, despite dropping 23 tons of munitions on Hezbollah’s headquarters, the warplanes had failed to penetrate the underground bunker walls of the command post.

     

    In the south the devastation was even worse. Kamel Abdullah, 50, took advantage of a lull in bombardments in the ancient city of Tyre to buy bread for his family. When he returned his home had been destroyed by a direct Israeli hit. His wife and five children were all dead.

     

    As Israeli planes roared over Tyre, another noise could also be heard: the whoosh of Katyusha rockets. From sites dug into the hills south of the city, the rockets headed for Israel.

     

    Hezbollah was using “shoot and scoot” tactics, firing missiles pre-hidden in caves and wadis, and moving on before Israeli planes could retaliate.

     

    The human cost of the struggle was horrific and the overwhelming majority of the victims were civilians.

     

    Zahra al-Samra, 18, lost her mother, a sister and a niece when Israeli bombs hit their apartment in Tyre, which was in a building that housed the local civil defence force. Another sister was severely burnt and might not survive.

     

    Once a pretty brunette, Zahra was burnt over her face and body by the blast of the explosion. Last week she sat, catatonic, in a small hospital being cradled by her brother.

     

    Writhing in pain, she cried out: “I don’t want to live, I want to die. God, you can’t make me live.”

     

    Acroo the border in Israel, sudden death also fell from clear skies. In Nahariya, a town of about 30,000 a few miles inside Israel, Rada Zalinski, an immigrant from Ukraine, went out onto the balcony of her home to call to her husband Andrei. He was preparing a shelter where his family could take refuge.

     

    “Andrei was in the shelter and Rada called him to come out,” said a neighbour. “As Andrei emerged, and while Rada was watching him approaching their flat, a Katyusha rocket fell. It virtually hit him direct.”

     

    A paramedic said: “Nothing much remained of the body and in the first moments I couldn’t tell if it was a man or a woman.”

     

    Neighbours took Rada and her four-year-old daughter Galit to hospital. “She was crying the whole time and little Galit, who didn’t understand what had happened, was crying with her,” said the neighbour. Rada asked that her husband be buried in Ukraine; but she said that she would remain in Israel.

     

    Caught in the middle of the conflagration were thousands of British nationals. Emily Warren, a 12-year-old from London, was staying with a friend from the French Lycée in Kensington whose relatives had a home in the hills above Beirut.

     

    “People were dying and bombs were exploding,” she said. “I couldn’t understand it. This was supposed to be a summer holiday with my best friend.”

     

    After days of waiting, gloomily watching the war on satellite television, the British embassy in Beirut telephoned to say that evacuations were being arranged.

     

    It was the start of a chaotic departure from Lebanon for tens of thousands of foreign nationals. To help with the American evacuations, US Marines landed in Beirut for the first time since a suicide attack on a US barracks there killed 241 service personnel in 1984.

     

    For many of those fleeing it was an abrupt departure only days after they had arrived for a taste of the shiny new Beirut. Emily sat silently with her friend and her friend’s mother as a taxi took them towards the city.

     

    “In the mountains, it had been hard to tell that something was wrong, but as we entered Beirut we could see buildings in ruins,” she said.

     

    Emily took out her camera but was swiftly told to put it away. “You’re frightening the driver,” said her friend’s mother. “The flash reminds him of the bombs.”

     

    The taxi drove past shops that the girls had visited a week ago. “Now they were just rubble,” Emily said. “This made me really angry. The bombs had destroyed the most beautiful buildings. They had only just been rebuilt.”

     

    At a meeting point near a mosque, a Royal Navy helicopter waited. Within hours Emily was in Cyprus; but for others escape was not so smooth.

     

    Nathalie Moukarzel, 21, who has an English mother and Lebanese father, was born and brought up in Britain. She had arrived in Beirut to visit relatives only hours before hostilities erupted.

     

    As soon as she realised how serious the bombing raids were she sought help from the embassy. “I tried to call the embassy for a whole day and they did not answer,” said Moukarzel. “The next day I called for four hours before someone picked up.”

     

    Over the ensuing days she battled, she said, with staff who seemed unable to offer any help. “I cannot tell you how ashamed I am to call myself a British citizen — I have lost faith and feel helpless,” she said, though she is now safely out of the country after being evacuated aboard HMS Bulwark.

     

    Others who were offered assistance were also dismayed at the handling of the evacuation. Ilham al-Shami, her sister Rena and 14 other family members — all with dual Lebanese-British citizenship — found that a British embassy official told them they could not take their two Filipino nannies on board Bulwark.

     

    Surrounded by Louis Vuitton suitcases, al-Shami and her relatives complained forcefully at having to abandon their nannies. All they wanted, they said, was to get to their villa in Cyprus. One undiplomatic official told them to “f*** off”.

     

    In rather more parlous position late last week were 10 British nationals said by the embassy on Friday to be trapped in their homes by the fighting in south Lebanon. It was too dangerous for them to move, but a final evacuation of other stragglers was being planned yesterday.

     

    AS the rockets and bombs continued to fall, Condoleezza Rice sat down to a private dinner in New York on Thursday with Kofi Annan, the United Nations secretary-general. The gilded splendour of the Waldorf Astoria hotel could scarcely have been further removed from the wrecked Beirut landscapes flickering across the television screens in the hotel bar.

     

    It is hard to imagine what the pair might have agreed upon, unless they were talking about the choking heatwave that smothered Manhattan last week.

     

    Earlier that day, Annan had called for an immediate cessation of hostilities between Israel and Hezbollah — a move that drew a sharp rebuke from John Bolton, the hawkish US ambassador to the UN.

     

    “No one’s explained how you conduct a ceasefire with a group of terrorists,” said Bolton. “It is not appropriate to talk about a ceasefire as if that is the alpha and omega of the situation.”

     

    Rice’s dinner with Annan appeared intended to dispel the impression that America is becoming increasingly isolated over its Middle East policies — or what some regard as a lack of them.

     

    There were hints in London that Blair, who will visit the White House on Friday, was becoming alarmed at America’s non-interventionist strategy and at the growing cockiness of enemies of the West as Hezbollah won the propaganda war to depict Israel as the aggressor.

     

    The prime minister had spelt out his position on Wednesday, when he said that the hostilities would “stop now if the [israeli] soldiers who were kidnapped wrongly . . . were released”.

     

    He added: “It would stop if the rockets stopped coming into Haifa, deliberately to kill innocent civilians. If those two things happen, let me promise . . . I will be the first out there saying Israel should halt this operation.”

     

    The cabinet, meeting on Thursday, backed his stance. After Margaret Beckett, the foreign secretary, gave a presentation, there was only one dissenting voice. Lord Grocott, chief whip in the House of Lords and a former ultra-loyalist parliamentary private secretary to Blair, argued that Israel’s actions could be seen as “disproportionate”.

     

    The problem for Blair — not to mention Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister — is that anything short of a convincing Israeli military victory or a complete capitulation by Hezbollah seems unlikely to achieve what Rice described as the “sustainable conditions for political progress” that would make an American diplomatic initiative worthwhile.

     

    For the border war has to be seen in the context of greater intractable problems. Even if the threat of an Israeli invasion forces Hezbollah to sue for peace, Washington appears no nearer to resolving either of the most pressing issues threatening the Middle East’s future: Iran’s nuclear capabilities and Syria’s mischief-making in Iraq.

     

    “No reckoning with Hezbollah will be adequate without a reckoning with its principal state sponsors of terror,” Bolton acknowledged last week.

     

    Hezbollah’s attack on Israel — unlikely to have been carried out without some kind of discussion with Tehran — is ample evidence of the growing confidence in both Iran and Syria that America has been hobbled by the war in Iraq and is rapidly losing its grasp on the region.

     

    When Rice announced earlier this year that America would finally engage Iran in talks about its nuclear programme, the response from Tehran was mocking. “Why don’t you admit that you are weak and your razor is blunt?” asked Ayatollah Khamenei, the country’s supreme religious leader.

     

    Shortly after that a boat operated by Iranian Revolutionary Guards sailed past a US navy vessel in the Gulf with a banner that read: “US cannot do a damn thing.”

    Not that Iran is claiming direct credit for Hezbollah’s actions. On Friday, Akbar Rafsanjani, another leading cleric, claimed the conflict was “a plan prepared by the US, Israel and perhaps Britain since several weeks ago”.

     

    That carries little weight in America, where analysts largely concur that Tehran has been manipulating Hezbollah’s attacks as a useful ploy for diverting attention from its nuclear activities. American analysts disagree, however, over the likely lasting effects of this crisis.

     

    Some believe that Israel’s fierce military response, while it will hurt Hezbollah in the short term, will only stir up more hatred. Muqtedar Khan, a political analyst at the Brookings Institution in Washington, said: “Muslims across the world are watching a nuclear power — supported, armed and funded by the US — bombard and kill dozens of civilians, destroy the economy and infrastructure of Palestine and Lebanon . . . and all the US does is provide cover for Israel on the world stage.

     

    “Al-Qaeda must be running out of enrolment forms . . . the escalation in the region strengthens anti-Americanism worldwide and fuels radicalism in the Arab and Muslim world.”

     

    The optimists argue that if Israel succeeds in delivering a swift and decisive blow to Hezbollah’s paramilitary base, then Lebanon’s recently installed democratic government, led by Fouad Siniora, might survive; Palestinian militants might become chastened; and America will profit from the gratitude of a number of moderate Arab states who have their own worries about the spread of Shi’ite aggression.

     

    According to this analysis, Nasrallah, the Hezbollah leader, might turn out to have made a fatal mistake if Israel is given enough time to inflict serious military punishment during any ground offensive.

     

    It is already clear, however, that the longer the fighting goes on and the civilian casualties increase, the greater the pressure will be for Washington to rein in Israel — which would leave Rice’s “sustainable conditions for political progress” still out of reach.

     

    “If Hezbollah is significantly weakened or destroyed, that’s good for US policy,” said Steven Cook, a regional specialist at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York. “But any deal that leaves Hezbollah in place is not a good deal for the US.”

     

    Packing up his bags in Beirut on Wednesday evening, Brian Prescott-Decie, a British university professor, chose to be optimistic. He had decided to join the British evacuation, he said, only because he had two small children — Edward, 3, and Celia, 5.

     

    “We are looking at this as an extended vacation,” he said as he boarded HMS Bulwark for Cyprus. “Our house is here, our lives are here, our children go to school here. We will find our way back.”

     

    Yet a few dozen miles further south, Israeli soldiers were massing for what military commanders described as a bid to carve out a Hezbollah-free buffer zone above Israel’s northern border. It may precipitate protracted and bloody fighting.

     

    When Nasrallah gave a television interview on Thursday night he did not look remotely perturbed at the thought of further fighting.

     

    “Hezbollah has so far stood fast, absorbed the strike, retaken the initiative and there are more surprises ahead,” he told the Al-Jazeera network.

     

    Prescott-Decie and his children might be away longer than they think.

    "][title]www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2281903_1,00.html

     

     

     

     

     

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  13.  

    I dont think thats true my friend. It all depends on love.We have to love everyone man or woman . We think of our loved ones and that includes women too does that mean its bad? What sort of logic is that? That is the Gaudiya logic which is silly. Try the Tattvavada or Dwaitha philosophy which is the real truth ,all ither philosphies are false!!!

    It's also not true that you're a spiritual person who knows that we're different from this material body, mind and senses. Presently you're identified with this temporary material body and consider it as your true self, but this is called illusion, you're in maya! When your body is finished your present understanding is also finished. When you become self-realized you immediately find out that you're an eternal soul and by serving Krishna you experience real, eternal happiness. When experiencing real spiritual happiness within your soul what the heck you would consider female bodies or sexual activity as attractive? But since you decided to remain stuck in the bodily concept of temporary living it seems you're at the wrong forum,

    Vaishnavas have fully realized they're eternal, full of bliss and knowledge. Btw, Tattvavadas or Dwaithas also dont think of laying in bed with beautiful women. Who is your teacher to tell you such?

  14.  

    Funny, If I were Israel I would not have responded either. Where in that peace agreement are the Arab concessions ? Where is the promise to disarm Hamas and Hezbulla and Islamic Jihad ? All I see is basically a masked threat, " You want peace, do what we say " The Arab league speaks of UN resolutions yet they are the ones who have started all the past wars with Israel with the one goal of destroying a state that is recognised by the UN.

     

    Good, you sit in front your TV and know everything how it is to be in war. Reality looks different - a mass exodus out of Israel will start.

    May be there will be a chance to open a Vaishnava village in Jerusalem.:rolleyes:

     

     

    Jews who leave Israel for good

    By Lawrence Smallman

     

    Every Jewish immigrant that enters Israel is unwittingly taking part in a continual referendum on its chances of survival. But many of those who enter Israel also choose to leave it.

    For many of them, involvement in actively subjugating Palestinian refugees in the Occupied Territories and the pressure of living the Zionist ideology every day is just too much.

    Igor Dzhadan describes his situation simply. He emigrated to Israel in 1990 but returned home in 2001, blaming what he called the country's "sectarian nature".

    "I feel more comfortable in Russia. My life prospects wouldn't be worse than in Israel. I didn't like it. I'm used to operating in an open society where people don't ask you to what community you belong."

    Dzhadan was twice required to serve in areas of heavy resistance in Bethlehem and Hebron. "I had to wait during operations to see whether there would be any wounded that I would have to treat... I saw dead bodies."

    Boruch Gorin, head of the public relations department at the Russian Federation of Jewish Communities, finds similar sentiments among many of the tens of thousands of Russian Jews that continue to head home.

    Dangerous place

    Thousands complained of the pressure of living like a Zionist ideologue rather than as a human being. "Living in Israel is an ideology," he says.

     

    Olmert welcomes an immigrant

    already wearing army uniform

     

    In the past month - and with much media fanfare - some 450 Jews decided to leave the safety of North America and France to live in what must be the most dangerous place for Jews in the world.

    Crowds greeted the new arrivals at Ben Gurion International airport, some even had their hands shaken by Prime Minister Olmert.

    Such a warm welcome is easy to understand. "If the current population trends continue, it is estimated that Jews will be outnumbered by non-Jews in the territory that Israel controls within 10 to 15 years," the BBC reported in July.

    But winning the population battle is proving impossibly difficult - particularly when more Jews are leaving Israel than moving in.

    Net immigration

    Official Israeli sources contain no consistent, annual information about rates of emigration from the country or profiles of those leaving.

    Known within the Zionist ideological lexicon as yeridah, government statisticians do not even use the "e" word.

    But in a presentation at the Association for Israel Studies in Jerusalem, Ian Lustick of Pennsylvania University has described as much as it is possible to know about emigration - given the lack of official data.

    "It is quite likely that the real net immigration of Jews into Israel in 2005 was either near zero or negative," he said. And as the al-Aqsa Intifda continues, the figures are not likely to change.

    With fewer than 22,000 immigrants registered for 2005, Lustick also believes only around 30% of these immigrants were classified by the government as Jewish.

     

    'Missing citizens'

     

    A major phenomenon is developing. New arrivals are deciding to leave almost as soon as they arrive. Of the 1000 Jews arriving from North America in 2003, half have now left to go back home.

    "Before our eyes Israel is becoming ultra-Orthodox, nationalist and Arab. It is becoming a society that has no sense of a future", Avraham Burg, former speaker of the Knesset

     

    Evidence for these "missing citizens" is easy to come by. The head of manpower for the Israel Defence Forces reported in mid-2005 that 34% of Israelis of conscription age were not serving in the army - a significant number of whom had "left the country prior to their recruitment and lived abroad".

    In Haaretz, journalist Aluf Benn reported sharp increases in Israelis applying for citizenship papers at the German, Polish, Czech, Austrian and Slovakian embassies in Israel in 2004 and 2005.

    Even a Market Watch poll commissioned by the newspaper Maariv found 20% of adult Israelis had recently considered living in a different country, and more than half of these "would like their children to grow up outside Israel".

     

    Changing attitudes

     

    Haaretz published a lengthy interview with Avraham Burg, the former speaker of the Knesset. The son of Interior Minister Yosef Burg, Avraham, had shocked many Israelis with an article he published in the International Herald Tribune entitled A Failed Israeli Society is Collapsing.

    "When you ask Israelis today whether their children will be living here 25 years down the road, you don't get an unequivocally positive answer.

     

    "You don't hear a booming yes. On the contrary. Young people are being encouraged to study abroad. Their parents are getting them European passports ... a whole society is living here that has no faith in its future.

     

    "Before our eyes, Israel is becoming ultra-Orthodox, nationalist and Arab. It is becoming a society that has no sense of a future, no narrative and no forces to maintain itself."

    Government line

    Even Tel Aviv estimates that "Israeli citizens living outside the country" - that is, emigrants - now number between 450,000 and 900,000, depending on whether you count children born outside the country.

     

    Immigrant youths are forced to

    do unpleasant military service

     

    According to representatives of the Central Bureau of Statistics testifying before the Knesset's Committee on Absorption, 270,000 Israeli citizens emigrated between 1990 and 2001.

    In other words, a third of all immigrants in the same period have returned home.

    But in January 2004, Yuri Shtern, chairman of the Knesset Interior Committee, asserted that these figures under-reported the problem.

    He said the figures "did not include statistics for yeridah in the last two years, during which the number of those abandoning the country for Russia has increased very significantly".

     

    Panic reaction

     

    Drastic ideas to stem the tide include the wholesale conversion of Beni Menashe immigrants from India and Peruvian Indians to West Bank settlements as well as quick and easy conversion procedures for thousands of non-Jewish immigrants from the former Soviet Union.

    Other suggestions are more traditional. Yisrael Harel, a veteran Gush Emunim activist and former editor of the Nekuda newspaper, published an article in April 2003 to propose "a solution".

    The Egyptian and Jordanian governments, he suggests, should accept masses of Palestinian refugees and Israel must abandon the Gaza Strip and the heavily Arab areas of the West Bank.

    "The Jewish majority between the Jordan and the sea is disappearing day by day, and without an absolute Jewish majority the State of Israel will not be able to survive for long.

    "Security for an absolute Jewish majority is a crucial foundation for any plan ... every solution [to the Palestinian presence], that does not guarantee a Jewish majority in the land of Israel is no solution."

     

  15.  

    Onlooker, yes, I agree but unfortunately ISKCON provided them the ammunition to do so. There is nothing in this world that can justify the abuse of kids so it only seems fair to cop a ton of wrath--some of it undeserving--for doing so. Those who are gung-ho about DDS's situation will have to realize that the world views ISKCON in the same manner.

     

    It's an intriguing situation, the macro and microcosm: should ISKCON/DDS/we be humble, honest and responsbile and perhaps suffer on that account, or should we fight? Can we do both without seeming defensive and insincere?

     

    Since there're presently many ISKCON devotees engaged to write day and night big volumes of academic dissertations about DDS being "not so bad and fully 108% healed" or "in fact amazingly surrendered and extremely humble", it should be clear that DDS has a powerful agenda of supporters right on the GBC board. The decision is already made, if we havent decided yet or made the wrong decision, DDS's deftly typing pool supplies us daily with new papers (read below) that read like Harvard expertises and which make the rank&file class of devotees who signed the zero tolerance petition gradually feel unexplainable threatened - something like, it's sink or swim.:silent:

     

     

     

    Impartial We Stand, Biased We Fall

     

    BY: LAKSMI NRSIMHA DAS

     

     

     

    Jul 22, ALACHUA, FLORIDA (SUN) —
    I, like many devotees around the world, have been following the chain of events and subsequent opinions surrounding the Dhanurdhara Swami case. I have patiently listened to all points presented to date by the concerned Vaisnava community and would like to make a humble attempt to put forth my observations regarding this pivotal decision facing the GBC at present. My approach to this case comes from a slightly different perspective, so I humbly beg the reader to bear with me to its conclusion.

     

     

    My first recommendation is plain and simple. I implore all GBC members to read and become thoroughly familiar with the entire 200-plus page case file, not just the summaries as proposed. Summaries give us an abbreviated version of the inquiry, while the actual case file, with recorded exchanges between the investigator and witnesses, reveal a tone which gives insight to the points about to be made. I have provided specific quotes from the case file to give some perspective into the angle in which this investigation was approached, and the attitude in which it was pursued. If the GBC cannot honestly commit to this then they should appoint a panel of trained professionals, devotees or otherwise, to scrutinize the manner in which this case was handled.

     

     

    After perusing the entire case file, a comprehensive analysis of the investigative procedure employed by the previous CPO administration, in my opinion, would be in order. I emphasize this point because the strategy of the investigation and the subsequent conclusions are the foundation by which the current intensified negative perception of DDS is built. My contention is this: the DDS case was handled in a prejudicial manner, both by the lead investigator and the CPO office. This may seem like a speculative or insensitive determination, but follow my line of logic and then draw your own conclusion.

     

    <CENTER>
    Parallel History
    </CENTER>

     

     

    Consider this; in the early history of child abuse investigation in the U.S. during the 1970’s and 80’s, when child abuse first popped on the radar screen of media awareness, a decisive and aggressive posture was assumed by both Social Services and law enforcement agencies. Prior to this time period, Social Services primary concern revolved around children who were homeless. Mainstream America was outraged by the horrific and heart wrenching revelation that children were being maltreated, sexually and physically.

     

     

    In the initial stage of child abuse investigation, it was assumed that anyone accused of such a crime was automatically at fault and it became the mission of Social Services to prove that guilt. Little attention was paid to the concept of objectivity and the investigation and interview process lacked the sophistication needed to apply proper discrimination. The concept of a child lying or embellishing on their story was not considered and there was very little research to address this notion. The investigator, by virtue of the strong emotional pull child abuse has on the heartstrings, felt compelled to protect the child at any cost, and fell prone to motivated lines of inquiry to draw out the preconceived “truth.” At that point in time, there was a general lack of awareness of how a witness could be directed into giving answers that placated the adult they were dealing with. An alliance, a bond so to speak, was formed between the investigator and the victim that emphasized the assumption that the accused was undeniably guilty.

     

     

    The end result of those costly mistakes, which primarily involved biased investigative and interview procedures, ended up, in all too many cases, with slanted convictions. By the early 1990’s, as a consequence of successful appeals and a heightened awareness of proper interview procedures, Social Service agencies were forced to acknowledge the fact that serious mistakes had been made in investigative strategies. Many of the guilty verdicts were overturned and the whole process was seriously revamped. The problem of child abuse had been compounded by overzealousness and over-reaction that often resulted in irrevocable damage to all parties concerned, the accused, the victim and families of both.

     

    <CENTER>
    Perception Ain’t Everything
    </CENTER>

     

     

    Although in reference to the DDS case guilt has been admitted, and there is evidence that substantiates this, the concern should be on accurately establishing the degree of his guilt in a mature environment free of persuasion. Bhaktivinode Thakur, in his Caitanya Siksamrta, has indicated that it is incumbent upon Vaisnavas to display righteous conduct, one of the many facets being the execution of proper judgment. Proper judgment requires fine discrimination. Fine discrimination comes from purified intelligence firmly fixed in Krsna Conscious connectiveness. I won’t wax philosophical in this regard, as I believe that Satyaraj Prabhu (in his articles posted on Dandavats.com) has dealt with the philosophical perspective quite effectively. Rather I’ll continue my line of reasoning with some further food for thought.

     

     

    We should be crystal clear that on one side this case involves child abuse and its consequences, and on the other, the imposition of sanctions on a senior disciple of Srila Prabhupada which has no clear-cut precedent. The rights of all parties involved in any unbiased investigation must be carefully and objectively analyzed and systematized in service to future generations.

     

     

    No one can fault a family member of an abused child for having an aggressive stance against the accused. This is a natural response to such an alleged violation. Our Iskcon society, in many ways, is a large family. How fair would it be if we allowed a family member to investigate the accusations against the accused, especially at that point in time when the revelation that there was child abuse in Prabhupada’s house reverberated around the world. Our family was shocked, angered, emotionally devastated. Paradise had been invaded by pedophiles. Even if that family member assigned to investigate this and other cases, had some social work training, it would be nearly impossible to exercise objectivity, especially with no proven oversight system in place. If a social worker or therapist becomes too emotionally entangled in their case, and transference is detected by their mentor, they are normally removed from the investigation.

     

    <CENTER>
    The Inquisition
    </CENTER>

     

     

    During and immediately after the investigation I familiarized myself with this case and many of its details. In addition, several respected, mature devotees who are not members of the GBC, some with experience in the psychological and legal field, read the entire case file (all 200+ pages) and independently came to the same disturbing conclusion: there was an element of prejudice against Dhanurdhara Swami both on the part of the investigator and others involved with overseeing the process. In addition to what I had read in the case files, I had conversations with the lead investigator on several occasions, being a part of the same Iskcon community where she resided, and came away with the uncomfortable feeling that I was speaking to the prosecutor rather than the investigator. A definite red flag went up at that point. The following are quotes taken from the lead investigator’s email message to one of the youth who testified against DDS:

     

     

    “I just finished formatting your evidence against DDS. It is so very sickening and powerful! Your detail is amazing.”

     

     

    She then states her purpose:

     

     

    “I want to make it (the case against DDS) as awesome as possible, not that it isn't already.”

     

     

    In the following statement, I summarize, (to avoid mentioning names) a documented interview (from the case file) between the lead investigator and a potential witness.

     

     

    In an interview with the younger brother of a witness, the lead investigator tries her best to influence him. She tells him what his older brother has said. She twice makes the argument that the older brother, being four years older, would have the story straighter than this witness who really can’t remember it himself (by his own admission). She tries another tactic. ÒWell, here's what several of your peers are saying." She offers her own value judgment: "It was just atrocious." But still, no luck: the witness replies, ÒI don't even remember the incident."

     

     

    The above quotes I refer to are all in the case file and these are just a few glimpses to give us some insight into the investigator’s mood. Words like “so sickening,” “awesome,” and “atrocious” are far from objective inquiry. The investigator is making a statement of judgment, rather than searching for the truth. If this is in the case file, then what subtleties are not in the case file? A witness will respond to the signals sent by the interviewer, especially if they seem empathetic and encouraging. There is ample research evidencing this point. If she was the prosecutor or therapist, that attitude would be understandable and acceptable, but an investigator’s prime duty, particularly in child abuse, is to find out what events had actually occurred as impartially as possible, and not transfer or impose directive feelings to those being interviewed. Unfortunately, the lead investigator was allowed and encouraged by the CPO and N.A. GBC to wear four hats during the inquiry: prosecutor, lead investigator, judge trainer and child protection advocate, even though they were warned against this by a devotee clinical psychologist that this was inappropriate. It is standard practice in the field of psychology and social work that each case worker has a trained mentor to monitor the case worker and victim so that they are not adversely influenced by the strength of emotion of the case. There was no such standard observed here, in fact, quite the contrary. Is there any possibility of conflict of interest here?

     

     

    Besides being a new devotee with limited experience and maturity in KC, the lead investigator also experienced circumstances in her own family history that would likely prejudice her towards a male accused of child abuse. In assigning someone to a case this fact would also be taken into consideration. In addition to the above-mentioned items, a psychological assessment of DDS was ordered by the CPO (to test for anti-social behavior). The lead investigator hired a NYC social worker to do the assessment. Two things were wrong with this scenario. First, the social worker hired to do the assessment was a former colleague of the lead investigator, and secondly, the man did not have the qualifications to administer or assess the MMPI Test. The MMPI is a testing tool developed by psychologists to detect any emotional or characterological disorders. At present, it is the most accurate tool a psychologist has at his disposal. DDS was accused of being a psychopathic deviate by the investigator and the CPO and this test would have picked up on that fact.

     

     

    Just for the record, the test did not confirm that DDS had any problems psychological or otherwise. However, the hired “expert” disregarded the test findings and stated that DDS did have problems based on his (the social worker’s) conferring with the lead investigator and an interview with DDS. All this was pointed out by a devotee psychologist who specializes in psychological assessment and who reviewed the findings, only to be disregarded-without reason or explanation-by the then head of CPO and the lead investigator. It is also important to note in this regard that DDS was advised to get representation in his case, specifically regarding this testing, but he refused because he wanted to fully cooperate with the investigation.

     

     

    In addition, assessment tools such as the Luscher Color test (which were taught by the lead investigator to temple presidents in ISKCON-sponsored seminars) were used in the DDS case and other cases. In my research, I found out that this test is deemed quackery by the American Psychological Association.

     

     

    I recently asked two judges involved in this case if they at any time felt there was bias against DDS during the investigation. Both, with very little hesitation, said yes, they felt there was bias coming from the CPO office and the assigned investigator. In addition to all of the above, the current head of CPO stated in a recent email to me this admission “Despite the fervor of her service, the investigator, who occasionally went “over the top,” I think we do have a fairly accurate picture of what happened.” Interesting characterization of the investigator in question: fervor, over the top, and fairly accurate. Over the top is my point exactly.

     

    <CENTER>
    Why, Why, Why
    </CENTER>

     

     

    One may ask why this issue is being raised at this point. Is this an attempt to exonerate DDS from his guilt? At this juncture I must say that guilt has been established and accepted by DDS. But this determination as to whether or not there was bias in the investigation is a necessary consideration that may aid in determining the degree of guilt, and balance the current perception of DDS’s involvement.

     

     

    In this regard, there is punishment and there is perception. The support for a hard-line stance towards DDS is, in reality, based on the buy-in of a perception gleaned from what I contend came from the source; biased investigation. I am not saying that every single interview has been influenced in this way, nor am I saying that every single witness has had their story altered by bias or is lying. Be clear on this. What I am saying, however, if there was a prejudicial attitude (that should have been checked by the CPO and the GBC during the investigation), and a stated mission by the investigator to “hang ’em high,” then the case has been compromised. One may argue that besides the investigation in question, there is new testimony as a result of the Turley case that further implicates DDS. My answer to that would be they are allegations which have yet to be substantiated by the kind of professional, trained scrutiny I have been talking about.

     

    <CENTER>
    2+2=4.78
    </CENTER>

     

     

    Everything that has been said by proponents of the zero-tolerance policy and the proposed sanctions against DDS is based on the assumption that the investigation of this case was undeniably fair, comprehensive, and within the realm of acceptable investigative and adjudication procedures. (refer to Malati’s article on Dandavats.com).

     

    <CENTER>
    How Guilty?
    </CENTER>

     

     

    In any legal system, and particularly with child abuse, degree of guilt, and the process which establishes guilt are very important components in determining how to mete out the proper punishment. That’s why Social services and law enforcement agencies are now so careful in this process. The investigators are trained specialists in the science of the interview so as not to fall prey to this pitfall, and there is expert supervision to make certain fairness is maintained. They’ve made their mistakes. We should consider the fact that we are not above making those same naïve yet well-intentioned mistakes.

     

     

    For example, if someone takes the life of another person, there are many considerations, like motive, mental stability, etc. The act is the same; one life is taken by another. But so many details are there to determine whether it is manslaughter, insanity, first or second degree murder. When the degree of guilt is firmly established through proper procedure, then the perpetrator is charged accordingly and thus receives a suitable sentence. Closer to home is the fact that the legal system is very careful to make such distinctions between the various types of child abuse, sexual being the worse, and thus strict in its sanctions, and secondarily physical. Even within those types of abuse there are varying degrees, which result in a specific punishment that matches the specific crime.

     

    <CENTER>
    A Lesson From History
    </CENTER>

     

     

    Consider this point again from actual historical cases: a forensic interviewer who is prejudiced against the accused can lead a witness or victim into an embellished or even false conclusion which serves the cause of establishing guilt rather than to discern what is the truth. Refer to the McMartin case in Los Angeles and the Kelly Michaels case in New Jersey, which upon review found the investigators to be motivated against the accused. Thus their line of questioning led victims into either embellished or false testimony.

     

     

    However, the CPO denies the relevancy of this point. Their claim is that only small children can be influenced by a prejudiced line of query (as demonstrated in the aforementioned cases which involved young children). After all, the devotees who stepped forward to levy allegations against DDS were young adults and not young, malleable children. Preliminary examination of this opinion by a licensed clinical psychologist with years of experience in child assessment indicates the contrary; there is ample research proving that even adults can be affected by prejudiced interviewing procedures. Even from a logical perspective, what about advertising, subliminal seduction or disinformation and its effect on adults?

     

     

    There are a host of reasons as to why an adult can be influenced in this way; financial reward, recognition (fame, adoration and distinction) and peer pressure to name a few. As an example, one may refer to the national news media coverage of two young adult devotees who publicly claimed they were abused. It is known for certain that at least one of the two who made that claim was never abused, and spun a convincing tale, complete with tears, to millions of unsuspecting viewers.

     

     

    In the present climate of child abuse in ISKCON, at least from the general devotee perspective, and in the age of the Internet, the perception that has been promoted is that child abuse is all one homogenous, heinous crime, no matter what degree of guilt or involvement. Although from one angle any substantiated act of abuse to an innocent child is detestable, from the perspective of properly applied punishment, fine tuned discrimination must be utilized, regardless of how emotionally strenuous a task it is.

     

     

    It must be taken into consideration that the resultant stigma attached to such a determination is life altering, unfairly so, if tainted by bias. DDS has voluntarily done what no fallen leader has ever done before; approaching those he has offended and begging their forgiveness as per the prescription given in sastra. He is not only doing this through words but through practical action such as financial support and assistance with therapy if needed and has committed to this ongoing effort. So this voluntary display on his part at the very least warrants a comprehensive, objective review of the procedure used to convict him, because from this conviction all claims and perceptions have subsequently sprouted.

     

     

    If we allow unreasoning fervor (a synonym for fanaticism), amplified by the Internet, to sway our thinking, then we will never be certain that the final decision was the truly just one and we will never be able to undo the damage inflicted. Instead of helping our children, in their name we will have created another crime that will seriously impede the healing process now and in the future.

     

     

    Please consider what has been observed herein, and I think there is ample reason to at least revisit this investigation with an open mind and adequate, impartial information. At this point, however, my fear is certain members of the North American GBC body are incapable of being impartial because circumstantially they have borne the brunt of pressure from some members of our young adult community and their supporters, and have thus been influenced to take an irreversible, hard line stance against DDS. ISKCON is an international society and this ruling will be applied universally throughout our movement. If we perpetuate a system that is flawed then all of the good and sincere endeavors of the CPO will be severely marred as a result.

     

    <CENTER>
    The Spanking Culture
    </CENTER>

     

     

    The GBC should have a dialogue regarding the historical context in which these actions took place. Out of context, an act can be perceived and judged more severely than it actually was. In saying this I am not condoning excessive corporal punishment. But it is a relevant and sensitive point to consider when we examine the degree of culpability that DDS has for his actions.

     

     

    To my knowledge, most of the child abuse cases against the Catholic Church that occurred in the distant past involve sexual abuse, which is considered the worst form of abuse that can be afflicted on a child. In many states, charges of sexual abuse have somewhat flexible and liberal statute of limitations because of the degree of severity both mentally and physically. However, in Pennsylvania and other US states, physical abuse does have a definite statute of limitations because often times it cannot be clearly ascertained after a period of time what was excessive and what was not.

     

     

    Many cultures in the world either passively or explicitly condone corporeal punishment. In a survey conducted by Psychology Today magazine, the average US mother (white middle class) admitted to spanking her child an average of 150 times a year. In saying this, I ask that you please keep in mind that I am not advocating carte blanche, brute physical force, but in doing everything within our power to make certain our perspective does not fall prey to the same mistakes that were made by the social services system. Why was it included in the Official Decision on DDS the “he was not a danger to children?” It seems to me that mindful, cruel, excessive uncontrolled punishment would not have elicited such an official response. And why was he asked by the GBC to return to the gurukula in 1989 and allowed to remain there until 6 years later? Apparently, during his later stint, there were no substantiated instances of physical or sexual abuse.

     

     

    Our Vrndavana gurukula disciplinary methods in the 70’s and early 80’s were influenced by local standards of that country and culture (Indian School system) and that was allowed by the GBC minister of education and the GBC body. Parents, for the most part, were aware of this fact or at the very least, should have been, so the responsibility should be shared by the GBC, the parents, and DDS.

     

     

    What GBC member has been implicated in any of these cases and particularly in the DDS case? And if it is determined that there was bias in this investigation, what GBC member will be held accountable for not only allowing it to happen, but for vigorously supporting and contributing to the current feeding frenzy!

     

     

    Children suffered and are working through their suffering. They have bravely stepped forward and we should legitimately validate that and help them work through their pain with empathy and effective healing strategies both spiritual and psychological. However, simultaneously we should also keep a clear vision on what needs to be accomplished now and what will be accomplished in the long run by decisions based on unreasoning fervor. We currently have devotees who are trained in the field of psychology and social work, particularly in the US, and who work with children and these types of issues on a daily basis, and for some reason their views have not been solicited by the NA GBC or CPO to help us wade through this highly-charged emotional quagmire. Why?

     

    <CENTER>
    The Honey
    </CENTER>

     

     

    The last point I would like to make is an obvious one: there must be a serious commitment by the GBC to the process of discerning what actually has taken place in the past, impartially investigating and adjudicating what is happening in the present, and providing protective and educational measures for the future. This can only be accomplished if there is a commitment to properly fund the CPO. If the CPO budget was reviewed both now and during the days of the DDS case, we would find it sorely lacking. The CPO’s job is multi-fold, and in order to accomplish what it needs to do in the way of investigation, adjudication, and education, a high level priority must be set by the GBC. At this time, our focus must be on the human element of our ISKCON society, not bricks and mortar, both in healing and in preventative measures through education.

     

     

    I thank the GBC for all of their sacrifices and with straw between my teeth beg them to seriously consider what I have shared in this observation. I know your task is a great burden of love and a very difficult, often unappreciated one.

     

     

    Please forgive me if I have offended anyone during the course of this written plea. Your servant,

     

    Laksmi Nrsimha Das

     

    New Raman Reti, Alachua, Fl.

     

     

  16. <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=550 align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle>There Could Have been Peace

     

    </TD></TR><TR><TD>

     

    by Mark H. Gaffney – July 22, 2006

     

     

    As I write, Israelis troops are massing on the Lebanon border. I feel a deep sense of deja vu, not to mention about equal measures of frustration and exasperation. I suspect that many Americans share similar feelings. There is nothing new, here, after all. We’ve seen it all, before. Is there no end to the conflict?

     

    Still, it’s important to realize that this war did not need to happen. There was nothing inevitable about it. There could have been peace. Few Americans probably remember, but in 2002 Saudi Arabia offered Israel a full peace treaty.

     

    “What?!” You are probably reacting. “You must be joking!”

     

    No, I am not joking. Back in 2002 Saudi Arabia offered Israel a full peace treaty. The offer was extraordinary in that it went much further than any previous Arab peace initiative had, before. The Saudis offered not only to recognize Israel, they offered normalized relations, including full trade, economic ties, cultural exchanges: in short, an end to the Arab-Israeli conflict. The only condition was that Israel must abide by UN Security Council resolutions on Palestine.

     

    The 2002 Saudi peace offer was a trial balloon, but it had broad support in the Arab world. It had been drafted at an Arab League summit shortly before being announced. For more details go to <www.al-bab.com/arab/docs/league/peace02.htm>

     

    An end to the conflict was within reach in 2002, IF the US government had prevailed upon Israel to respond favorably. Of course, this didn’t happen. At the time the Bush administration had other priorities. The neocons were busily preparing to go to war with Saddam Hussein. Toward that end Bush operatives scoured the Middle East trying to drum up support. Everyone told them: “Don’t make war on Iraq. Saddam is no threat. Solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, instead.” It was excellent advice. Did the Bush administration listen? Of course not. Instead of a peace initiative we got the disaster in Iraq.

     

    For its part, Israel was also preoccupied in 2002: destroying hundreds of millions of dollars worth of infrastructure in Gaza and the West Bank built up during the failed Oslo process. Israel's PM Ariel Sharon did not actually reject the 2002 Saudi peace offer. As far as I know he never responded to it at all. Sharon dismissed it. And the US press quickly forgot all about it. Today, it's a safe bet that few Americans are aware that it even happened.

     

    But it did happen. In 2002 the Arab world extended an olive branch to Israel and Ariel Sharon dismissed it. This should not be surprising. Over the course of his long life Sharon opposed, and on occasion worked to undermine, every peace initiative in Israel’s history.

     

    Sharon evidently decided that there was no need to sit down and negotiate a peace settlement, given Israel's vast military strength, its nuclear supremacy, and the dutiful US protector at the UN to shield Israel from international accountability.

     

    Let’s face it, political negotiations are a messy business and they require painful compromise. Why go that route when you can simply impose your will upon the neighborhood?

     

    Israel’s massive nuclear arsenal was supposed to make the small nation feel safe and give Israel the confidence to negotiate from strength. But it didn't have that effect. It turned out that a strong Israel had no incentive to negotiate; period. End of story.

     

    Sharon also evaded negotiations by perpetrating a lie: that there is no one to talk to. And he succeeded brilliantly. Why confabulate a small fib when you can tell a whopper? The Bush administration bought the lie, and so did the ever malleable US media. This explains Israel's policy of unilateral action in recent years: the expanding settlements and cantonization of the West Bank, the security wall, etc. During the past year PM Olmert, Sharon’s successor, has simply continued the policies of his former boss.

     

    There is only one small catch. Unilateral action doesn't lead to peace. It only breeds more conflict.

     

    The simplest of truths is that there is ALWAYS someone to talk to. If many Americans have not figured this out, it’s because the US government and the US media have an ingenious capacity to shape-shift events. Time and again we've seen actual history transformed before our eyes into kind of a virtual reality. Most Americans still don't understand that despite our free press we do not get the news raw. We get it filtered through a glass darkly. This is why the “news” at times can seem incomprehensible, especially when it comes from the Mideast.

     

    A prime example occurred last year when Israel withdrew several thousand settlers from Gaza. The US press trumpeted this as a noble step toward peace. It might have been true, IF the Gaza withdrawal was motivated by a desire for improved relations with the Palestinians. Yet, the Palestinians were never consulted, neither before, during, nor after the operation.

     

    Events in recent days have shown that Israel’s Gaza withdrawal was motivated more by military expedience than by a desire for peace. The withdrawal of a few thousand settlers made it a lot easier for the Israeli army to seal off Gaza.

     

    Recently, Ha'aretz reported that Israel's Gaza incursion, which continues as I write, was planned many weeks before the capture of the Israeli soldier, which became the pretext for what has transpired. Israel’s plan, all along, was to punish the Palestinians for democratically electing a more militant Hamas-led government.

     

    You do this by closing the ports of entry, buzzing Gaza city with F-16s at rooftop level, breaking windows and scaring everyone out of their wits, especially children, and by shelling the area indiscriminately with artillery and tanks. It also helps to bomb Gaza's sole electric generation plant, so that in the heat of summer up to a million people now have no lights, no refrigeration, no air conditioning, and no clean water. As a result, hundreds of thousands of children, women, elderly, as well as the general population, will soon be – if not already – drinking unsafe water; and this will continue for many months. Gaza today predictably faces a health crisis, on top of everything else.

     

    This is how you terrorize an entire population.

     

    In fact, Israel’s ongoing treatment of Gaza is comparable to the collective punishment meted out by the Nazis to Jews trapped in the Warsaw ghetto during World War II. Yet, somehow the US press has failed to report what is happening. We are expected to believe that Hezbollah’s raid on the northern border, which triggered the current fighting in Lebanon, was an isolated act of terrorism, perpetrated solely out of hatred for Israel, when in fact it was obviously an attempt to relieve the pressure on the Palestinians in Gaza, the world’s largest prison.

     

    As I write the US has granted Israel a license to kill in Lebanon. Washington’s refusal to press for an immediate cease fire means the violence will continue. The longer it goes on the greater the chance the fighting will spread to Syria; which has a security arrangement with Iran. Today the world can only hold its breath...

     

     

     

    Mark H. Gaffney's first book, Dimona the Third Temple, was a pioneering study of Israel's nuclear weapons program.

     

    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

     

    -

    http://www.mayyoubeblessedmovie.com/

  17. June/July and Jagannath

     

    http://www.devaswami.com/?q=node/136

    Propelled violently, the delicate form of HH Bhakti Charu Swami managed to keep its feet. Behind him glared the Orissan policeman who had so savagely hurled him away from the Rathayatra carts. A few minutes earlier, that same human bulldozer had punched HH Indradyumna Swami in the nose, knocking off his glasses. No need for further demoniac endeavours—this security man had certainly guaranteed himself an easy journey to the hellish planets.

     

    Materially we’re in Puri, a small city of 125,000, near Bhubaneshwar, the capital of Orissa, on the central east coast of India. Spiritually, however, we’re in Sri Purushottama-kshetra, also known as Niladri or Nilacala—the famous home of Lord Jagannatha and His mandira. It’s Rathayatra day. Our small party had special passes allowing our presence in the special cordoned area where the Rath carts waited for the Deities to arrive from the Jagannath Temple nearby.

     

    Their Holinesses Radhanatha Swami, Indradyumna Swami, Sacinandana Swami, Bhakti Charu Swami, as well as Pankajangahi Prabhu, Jananivas Prabhu, and I were eager for a close-up. When Sri Jagannath, Sri Baladeva, and Srimati Subhadra would emerge and mount their chariots, we wanted to be right at their lotus feet. But, as thousands of people watched from the rooftops and streets, the Orissan police were determined to deny us this spiritual delight. We could withstand broiling in the 38-degree tropical sun, but the police’s verbal and physical assaults drove us away. We finally retreated to seats in buildings overlooking the carts.

     

    “Foreigners and Indians aligned with them still aren’t appreciated in Puri by the powers-that-be,” my young assistant Krishnagraja das, a Mayapur gurukula graduate, explained to me. He reasoned that the antipathy stemmed back to the British colonizers’ looting the Jagannath temple of the Deities’ jewels and dispatching the booty to London.

     

    True, a few hundred years ago, British propaganda had wickedly smeared the Jagannath Temple and its worshipable Lord. Attacking Sri Jagannath as "a frightful visage painted black, with a distended mouth of bloody horror," the British Crown distributed their bigotry in publications throughout the world. You can just imagine how Rathayatra sent them even more into a tizzy. Shocked by the annual grand procession of “the horrible, bloodthirsty idol,” the British, from the sacred name Jagannath, then coined the term "juggernaut." Now a normal word in the English language, the Random House Unabridged Dictionary reveals the deep misunderstanding and prejudice sustained from India’s colonial past into the 21st century.

     

    Juggernaut:

     

    1. any large, overpowering, destructive force or object, as war, a giant battleship, or a powerful football team.

     

    2. anything requiring blind devotion or cruel sacrifice.

     

    3. Also called Jagannath. an idol of Krishna, at Puri in Orissa, India, annually drawn on an enormous cart under whose wheels devotees are said to have thrown themselves to be crushed.

     

    Don’t, however, blame all the ignorance and malpractice on the British. Who now controls many of India’s most venerable and majestic temples? The Indian government. Millions of pious pilgrims still flock to the oldest and largest temples, depositing en total huge sums of money for the worship of the Deity. The state governments then misspend the Deity’s divine funds as they like, for mundane projects and political pockets.

     

    Safe from the Orissan police surrounding the carts, Bhakti Charu Swami and I watched the transcendental pageantry of Rathayatra from a roof directly overlooking Sri Baladeva’s cart. We humbly gazed to our heart’s content as the pandas (caste brahmins who serve the Deities) bore Sri Baladeva, then Srimati Subhadra, and finally Sri Jagannath from the temple to their thrones on their chariots. We saw the King of Orissa enact the ritual of sweeping the floor of the carts, and we also watched the elderly acarya, the sannyasi head, of the local Shankaracarya lineage, surrounded by an official police honour guard, board each cart to perform ceremonies to the Deities.

     

    Yes, the irony has to be tolerated. The modern followers of Lord Caitanya, the greatest devotee of Lord Jagannath, are denied close access to the Deities. HH Indradyuma Swami, who has enacted ecstatic Rathayatras in many cities of the world, is punched in the face, trying to see Sri Jagannathadeva. Meanwhile a staunch lifelong Mayavadi impersonalist is given carte blanche—the royal carpet straight up the carts to the Deities’ thrones.

     

    Lord Caitanya has declared that because the Mayavadi impersonalists misrepresent Vedic knowledge, they are the greatest offenders to the Supreme Lord. Quoting the Gita (16.9), Srila Prabhupada points out to us: “Life in demoniac species awaits the Mayavadi philosophers after death because they are envious of Krishna.” (Cc. Adi 7.130)

     

    We want to subordinate ourselves to the Lord; the Mayavadi leader, however, actually thinks he is Sri Jagannath! His concocted notion is that by his worshipping the Lord, he worships himself, because all is one, and any apparent individuality—whether of the Lord or us—is maya, an illusion to be overcome by austere spiritual practices and Vedantic study. Beaming with imaginary self-satisfaction that by his seeing the Deity, he has just seen himself, the elderly swami, amidst his reverent police escort, finally leaves the scene. Then amidst roars from hundreds of thousands of onlookers, finally, one after the other, the chariots of Sri Jagannath, Sri Baladeva, and Srimati Subhadra begin to roll.

  18. A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed. As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation. They talked about so many things and various subjects. When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said, “I don’t believe that God exists.” "Why do you say that?” asked the customer.

    “Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn’t exist. Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people? Would there be abandoned children? If God existed there would be neither suffering nor pain. I can’t imagine a loving God who would allow all these things.”

    The customer thought for a moment but didn’t respond because He didn’t want to start an argument. The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop. Just as he left the barber shop he saw a man in the street with long, string, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard. He looked dirty and unkept. The customer turned back and entered the barbershop again and he said to the barber, “You know what? Barbers do not exist.”

    How can you say that,” asked the surprised barber. “I am here, I am a barber and I just worked on you!” “No!” the customer exclaimed. “Barbers don’t exist because if they did there would be no people with long dirty hair and untrimmed beards like that man outside.” “Ah, but barbers do exists! What happens is people don’t come to me.”

    “Exactly,” affirmed the customer. “That’s the point! God, too, does exist! What happens is people do not go to Him or look for Him. That’s why there’s so much pain and suffering in the world.”

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  19.  

    “Would the Lord or Srila Prabhupada ask a sannyasi to step down from - or step up - their efforts to spread the glories of the Holy Name - merely because that sannyasi erred in his dealings with anyone?”

     

     

    Long text - short meaning, since there're recently almost complete books being written in support to Danurdhara Swami, he should do what he said: "I feel attached to initiate my own new disciples." Since Praghosa das and all of his GBC comrades anyway dont care about the opinion of thousands rank&file devotees who do all the work within ISKCON, they should happily go ahead with their present policy as usual and see what happens.

    Why PRAGHOSA DASA (ACBSP - NYC) writes such a long article, when he wrote just yesterday: Don't Waste Your Time ?

  20. The fate of those who serve false gurus is the same as the fate of the false gurus themselves:

     

    "Unless one is perfectly anxious to inquire about the way of perfection, there is no necessity of approaching a spiritual master. A spiritual master is not a kind of decoration for a householder. Generally a fashionable materialist engages a so-called spiritual master without any profit. The pseudo spiritual master flatters the so-called disciple, and thereby both the master and his ward go to hell without a doubt."(SB 1.19.37, purport)

  21.  

    Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

     

    The Bhaktivedanta Booktrust Srila Prabhupada

    Memorial Library

     

     

     

     

    Please follow this url:

    archive.org/details/Bhaktivedanta-Book-Trust

     

    Sri Krishna and Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu both taught Bhakti yoga, the spiritual practice of connecting with God through devotional service to Him. Based on Their teachings, in 1966 A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, referred to as Srila Prabhupada, founded the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON) in New York City.

     

    Srila Prabhupada and his disciples popularized the chanting of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra in the 1960s and 1970s, and it spread to countries around the globe. Though the International Society for Krishna Consciousness is the legal name for the movement Prabhupada started, most people know it as the Hare Krishna movement.

     

    Books are available in PDF (Adobe Acrobat) And MS Word (Microsoft Word). with a few txt. files.

     

    Haribol Pankaja das, thanks for the link to http://www.krishna.com/main.php?id=657

    I downloaded all the videos and want to ask

    if there're more places where one can download Vaishnava videos?

  22.  

    .............................they might stop killing each other also.

     

    Rape of the Constitution, Article 48

     

    It is especially demoniac that all of India's states just that state where Lord Caitanya appeared, West Bengal, allows cow slaughter.

     

    Article 48 wants the state to enact prohibition of cowslaughter; Kerala, West Bengal and Nagaland have not passed any such act, and in several other states the act is openly violated ; India is in fact a beef-exporter.

  23. This is surely the proper way how to propagate cowprotection - not to exploit the cow by keeping her in herds like just for constantly serving the insatiable human race - but to treat her mor like a special pet. The seize of a cow like depicted at this photograph taken in Delhi would be just right to properly take care and even let her in your appartment.

    My question is, it's hard to imagine that Lord Krishna's cows 5000 years ago where so big like today's breeds of karmi farmers, who probably breed cows only so big to exploit them?

     

    cow1.jpg

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