Pankaja_Dasa

Your thinking of Impersonal Liberation.?

Thx for joining.

Forum for Bhagavad-gita As It Is. No Vaishnava Aparadha, Instant ban no warning. Registration required. http://bhagavadgitaasitis.jconserv.net/ All questions welcome

- I guess the more your surrendered the more you feel seperation. i.e a disicple is surrendered more then me, I won't see it as a compititon, i will be happy and humbled. There is different gradations of devotees. (due to surrender). (not a compitition) So there is a difference between the Apostles and The Queens of Dwaraka. (But they are all devotees). I think also that kind of understanding and realization is very deep (spiritual), it's spiritual gradations of devotees. That's spiritual life, (forms etc). Spiritual Family.

The appostles were disicples so it's like seperation from Gurudeva (Jesus). I think your talking about seperation of the Gopis? In one letter of Prabhupada He says to disciple that he (the disicple) was feeling seperation from Prabhupada, and He seemed pleased (Prabhupada). I don't know, i.e a pure disicple of Prabhupada would be considered an apostle? Yes?. Krishna has devotees who are more dear to Him, (depending on thier surrender!). So Gurudeva is more pleased when a disicple shows surrender. A disciple told me talking about Surrender is easy though when actually practiced is it very very difficult. So I guess Surrender has different levels, and on this point devotees are judged by Krishna. (and Krishna reciprocrates depending on thier surrender). The Queens of Dwaraka have more surrender then the Apostles. Sorry I didn't provide any quotes, many devotees here have some for you.

http://www.mslit.com/details.asp?bookid=MSMSEBDICT ( Pocket sized version Encarta® Pocket Dictionary)

Yes though its predicted devotees shall be everywhere on the face of this planet. (like Satya-yuga). Basically Satya-yuga, in Kali-yuga. If that's the prediction then again, nobody can say how it will end (Krishna Consciousness). Unless Lord Kalki comes to establish another Satya-yuga! (won't end even then!). Maybe those 10,000 is a 'chance', like a good atmosphere is created for us by Krishna. And it 'can' end after this, but also can carry on. Prabhupada says no, but He doesn't mention how. Theres a missing link.

I fell from Mahakalapurna-loka (where Mayavadis go). ALL you lot fell from Goloka. Haha. (just a joke, )

C H A P T E R 13 Pramana & The Commencement of Prameya Jaiva-Dharma. Bhaktivinoda Thakura Translated From Hindi into English, Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja Vrajanatha: But how can Sri Krishna be all-pervading if He has a medium-sized, human-like form? If we accept that He has form, it means He can only stay in one place at a time, and that gives rise to so many philosophical discrepancies. The first is that He cannot be the all-pervading tattva if He has a form and body. Secondly, if He has a body, He will be limited by the material modes of nature, so how can He be independent and have limitless and absolute authority? How can this be reconciled? Babaji: My dear son, you are now thinking like this because you are bound by the qualities of maya. As long as the intelligence remains bound by material qualities, it cannot touch suddha-sattva. If such conditioned intelligence attempts to exceed its own limitations trying to understand suddha-tattva, it superimposes mayika forms and qualities on suddha-tattva, and thus conceives of a material form of Transcendence. :smash:After some time, the intellect rejects this form as being temporary, mutable, and subject to the material modes, and then it imagines the nirvisesha-brahma. That is why one cannot gain an understanding of the Supreme Absolute Truth through the intelligence. Whatever limitations you are inferring about the transcendental, medium-sized form are completely unfounded. Formlessness, immutability, and inactivity simply comprise the material conception of what is opposite to our conception of material qualities, so they are themselves a type of material quality. However, Sri Krishna also has qualities that are of an altogether different nature: for example, His beautiful, blossoming, smiling face; His lotus eyes; His beautiful lotus feet, which bestow fearlessness and peace upon His bhaktas; and His spiritual form, which is the pure embodiment of transcendence, with limbs and body just suitable for varieties of playful sports. The 'medium sized' sri-vigraha, that is the very basis of these two types of qualities (form and all pervasiveness), is supremely pleasing. The Narada-pancaratra describes His extreme attractiveness to the mind, and this description is replete with all siddhanta: nirdosha-guna-vigraha atma-tantro niscetanatmaka-sarira-gunais ca hinah ananda-matra-kara-pada-mukhodaradih sarvatra ca svagata-bheda-vivarjitatma Sri Krishna's transcendental body is composed of eternity, consciousness and bliss, without even a trace of material qualities. He is not subject to material time or space. On the contrary, He exists fully at all places and in all times simultaneously. His form and existence are the embodiment of absolute nonduality (advaya-jnana-svarupa-vastu). Direction (space) is an unlimited entity in the material world. By material estimation, only a formless object can be unlimited or all-pervading; an entity with a medium-sized form cannot. How ever, this conception only applies in the material world. In the spiritual world, all objects and their intrinsic natures and attributes are unlimited, so Sri Krishna's medium-sized form is also allpervading. Medium-sized objects in this material world do not have this quality of all-pervasiveness, but it is charmingly manifest in Sri Krishna's medium-sized vigraha. That is the supra-mundane glory of His transcendental vigraha. Can such glorious attributes be found in the conception of the all-pervading brahma? Material substances are always limited by time and place. If an entity who is naturally beyond the effects of time is compared to the all-pervading sky, which is limited by time and space, then is not that entity, beyond the influence of time, incomparably greater? Sri Krishna's vraja-dhama is none other than the Brahma-pura which is mentioned within the Chandogya Upanishad. This vrajadhama is a completely transcendental reality, and is comprised of all types of transcendental variety. Everything in that place-the earth, water, rivers, mountains, trees, creepers, animals, birds, sky, sun, moon and constellations-is transcendental and is devoid of material flaws or shortcomings. Conscious pleasure is present always and everywhere, in its fullest form. My dear son, this Mayapura-Navadvipa is that self-same spiritual abode. You are unable to perceive it, however, because you are bound in maya's snare. But when, by the mercy of saints and sadhus, spiritual consciousness arises in your heart, you will then perceive this land as the spiritual dhama, and then only will you achieve the perfection of vraja-vasa (residence in Vraja). Who has told you that there must be material merits and faults wherever there is medium-sized form? You cannot realize the actual glories of the transcendental medium-sized form as long as your intelligence is bound up in material impressions. Vrajanatha: No intelligent person can have any doubts about this point. However, I would like to know when, where and how Krishna's spiritual vigraha, dhama, and lila are manifested within material limitations, since Sri Radha-Krishna's vigraha and bodily complexion, and Their lilas, associates, houses, pastime-groves, forests, secondary forests and all the objects in the spiritual world are transcendental. Babaji: Sri Krishna possesses all potencies, so even that which appears to be impossible is actually possible for Him. What is astonishing in this? He is the all-potent Personality (sarva-saktiman purusha), the fully independent supreme controller who is completely autocratic and imbued with lila. Simply by His desire, He can appear in this material world in His self-same spiritual form, along with His spiritual abode. How can there be any doubt about this? Vrajanatha: By His desire, He can do everything, and He can manifest His purely spiritual form in this material world-that much is clear. However, materialistic people tend to think that Sri Krishna's own transcendental abode that is manifest here is simply a part of this material universe, and they perceive His vraja-lila to be just like ordinary mayika activities. Why is this? Why can't worldly people see Krishna's self-manifest, spiritual form as sac-cid-ananda when He mercifully appears in this world of birth and death? Babaji: One of Krishna's unlimited transcendental qualities is His bhakta-vatsalya (affection for His bhaktas). Because of this quality, His heart melts, and through His hladini-sakti, He bestows upon His bhaktas a type of spiritual potency that enables them to have direct darsana of His self-manifest form and His transcendental pastimes. However, the non-devotees' eyes, ears, and other senses are made up of maya, so they can see no difference between Bhagavan's spiritual pastimes and the mundane events in human history.

If devotees want a version with Plain text, with Itarics and Word-for-word taken out, then post here.(this thread) - www.krishna.com

It's just started. Prabhupada says it will end after 10,000 years but He doesn't say how. So maybe it's a hint that it may continue. Still not sure, what the significance of 10,000 years is. Very curious.

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Okay but I'm asking how it will happen. The Golden Age is also known as Satya-yuga (please check Vedabase!).

Microsoft Reader, with Text to Speech Totally, amazing. Please use IE (internet explorer). Trust me. 1. First Download Microsoft Reader & Install http://www.microsoft.com/reader/downloads/pc.asp 2. Second Download Microsoft Text to Speech & Install http://www.microsoft.com/reader/developers/downloads/tts.asp Now to Download Ebooks. Make a FOLDER called My Ebooks. DOwnload any of the following, after download simply click to open: http://www.microsoft.com/reader/downloads/dictionaries.asp#english ( A pocket sized dictionery! )

Srila Prabhupada says there will be no more Hare Krishna at end of 10,000 years. But I am doubtful, is Srila Prabhupada talking about this Age or a previous Age (of Kali-yuga), as there have been many Kali-yugas. ..devotees everywhere at this point of 10,000 years, how will they become extinct, (it's Satya-yuga).? ...I'm not saying Prabhupada is saying something else at all. How will devotees be wiped off the face of this Planet after 10,000 years? We can say, or others Prabhupada says so. But how will it happen. Gaudiya Vaishnavisum is not about, because 'says so' it's about knowing 100%.

Thankyou Ghari Prabhu for the above quote. I'll post later, theres more to this then meets the eyes.

The files are too big for streaming really. Converting to Quicktime was okay, but some of the Videos have Subtitles, so couldn't see them. (quicktime looked amazing, wmv-looked reasonable). That's for streaming. For offline avi was the best, compact.

It says somewhere the self-effulent devotee comes out. But who can be better then Prabhupada?! Yep, I doubt anybody. I mean, everybody will be Siksa disicple of Prabhupada. For Krishna. I don't know everywhere I look people are going on about Krishna, (well I have Nityananda). So there. Hehe. Ps. Iskcon needs an Uttama-adikari devotee, (always) to associate with them. Like when Prabhupada said goto Sridhara Maharaja, whats the point of interpretating Gurus words, anyway. That would have helped Iskcon. And they have had many chance (krishna is giving them) because Prabhupada is Pure devotee. Sometimes even I can see it (!!). And people coming on forum can. So I wonder sometimes. I don't know, nobody can claim to have understood Prabhupada, except rare devotees (and we should go to them, no understand, whats the shame?.). One day maybe, some do though. And I respect all devotees in Iskcon. I never say anything bad, about it. I see Gurus in Iskcon as Madhayama-adikari, but not Uttama-adikari. Problem is I know that Prabhupada came to give and make everybody uttama-adikari (VERY RARE). And if you say He made only madhayama-adikari? But Prabhupada told us to goto Uttama-adikari. The only person I can think of is a devotee I know. (He is Siksa disicple of Prabhupada). If you accept there is no difference between Siksa and Dikya, then you can see Prabhupada in Siksa Disicple. (siksa is same as body of Guru). etc. When i read Gita i don't think oh, i think this is Prabhupada wrote this, for me. I don't know even if Prabhupada comes back, He won't have the same bodliy features. So we should accept His siksa disicple as manifestation of Him (Prabhupada), okay thats me. Dandavats.

Yes, but nobody said that after this period the movement will stop. And how will it stop? Who is going to stop it?

At the end of this Kali-yuga, the Lord will appear as the incarnation of Kalki, and His only business will be to kill all human beings on the surface of the globe. After that killing, another golden age will begin. SB. 4.22.26 p If people take to this saìkértana movement of chanting Hare Kåñëa, Hare Räma, they will certainly be freed from the contamination of Kali-yuga, and the people of this age will be happy, as people were in Satya-yuga, the golden age. Sb.9.10.51 p Sréla Jéva Gosvämé has explained this verse in his commentary on the Bhägavatam, known as the Krama-sandarbha, wherein he says that Lord Kåñëa also appears with a golden complexion. That golden Lord Kåñëa is Lord Caitanya, who is worshiped by intelligent men in this age. That is confirmed in Çrémad-Bhägavatam by Garga Muni, who said that although the child Kåñëa was blackish, He also appears in three other colors—red, white and yellow. He exhibited His white and red complexions in the Satya and Tretä ages respectively. He did not exhibit the remaining color, yellow-gold, until He appeared as Lord Caitanya, who is known as Gaura Hari. Cc, Adi.3.52 A Vaishnava says, that this means if this (Sankirtana Movement) is still going on, then Lord Kalki will Join the Movement). I won't mention who, but right here Prabhupada says it. I guess certain devotees know what Prabhupada said.

The ones in bold describe my faults. You said negation means we might do that etc.. Bhagavad-gita as it is, 7.19. Purport (experpt) In the beginning of spiritual realization, while one is trying to give up one’s attachment to materialism, there is some leaning towards impersonalism, but when one is further advanced he can understand that there are activities in the spiritual life and that these activities constitute devotional service. -- I asked a devotee about this once, I THINK I may doing this. He said not everybody feels like this. I think if I tried hard enough, I could understand entire Purport of Vedic Scriptures with this single quote.

Sri Isopanisad 10 “Teachings of the Vedas” His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada TRANSLATION The wise have explained that one result is derived from the culture of knowledge and that a different result is obtained from the culture of nescience. PURPORT As advised in Chapter Thirteen of the Bhagavad-gétä (13.8–12), one should culture knowledge in the following way: (1) One should become a perfect gentleman and learn to give proper respect to others. (2) One should not pose himself as a religionist simply for name and fame. (3) One should not become a source of anxiety to others by the actions of his body, by the thoughts of his mind, or by his words. (4) One should learn forbearance even in the face of provocation from others. (5) One should learn to avoid duplicity in his dealings with others. (6) One should search out a bona fide spiritual master who can lead him gradually to the stage of spiritual realization, and one must submit himself to such a spiritual master, render him service and ask relevant questions. (7) In order to approach the platform of self-realization, one must follow the regulative principles enjoined in the revealed scriptures. (8) One must be fixed in the tenets of the revealed scriptures. (9) One should completely refrain from practices which are detrimental to the interest of self-realization. (10) One should not accept more than he requires for the maintenance of the body. (11) One should not falsely identify himself with the gross material body, nor should one consider those who are related to his body to be his own. (12) One should always remember that as long as he has a material body he must face the miseries of repeated birth, old age, disease and death. There is no use in making plans to get rid of these miseries of the material body. The best course is to find out the means by which one may regain his spiritual identity. (13) One should not be attached to more than the necessities of life required for spiritual advancement. (14) One should not be more attached to wife, children and home than the revealed scriptures ordain. (15) One should not be happy or distressed over desirables and undesirables, knowing that such feelings are just created by the mind. (16) One should become an unalloyed devotee of the Personality of Godhead, Çré Kåñëa, and serve Him with rapt attention. (17) One should develop a liking for residence in a secluded place with a calm and quiet atmosphere favorable for spiritual culture, and one should avoid congested places where nondevotees congregate. (18) One should become a scientist or philosopher and conduct research into spiritual knowledge, recognizing that spiritual knowledge is permanent whereas material knowledge ends with the death of the body. These eighteen items combine to form a gradual process by which real knowledge can be developed. Except for these, all other methods are considered to be in the category of nescience. Çréla Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura, a great äcärya, maintained that all forms of material knowledge are merely external features of the illusory energy and that by culturing them one becomes no better than an ass. This same principle is found here in Çré Éçopaniñad. By advancement of material knowledge, modern man is simply being converted into an ass. Some materialistic politicians in spiritual guise decry the present system of civilization as satanic, but unfortunately they do not care about the culture of real knowledge as it is described in the Bhagavad-gétä. Thus they cannot change the satanic situation. In the modern society, even a boy thinks himself self-sufficient and pays no respect to elderly men. Due to the wrong type of education being imparted in our universities, boys all over the world are giving their elders headaches. Thus Çré Éçopaniñad very strongly warns that the culture of nescience is different from that of knowledge. The universities are, so to speak, centers of nescience only; consequently scientists are busy discovering lethal weapons to wipe out the existence of other countries. University students today are not given instructions in the regulative principles of brahmacarya (celibate student life), nor do they have any faith in any scriptural injunctions. Religious principles are taught for the sake of name and fame only and not for the sake of practical action. Thus there is animosity not only in social and political fields but in the field of religion as well. Nationalism has developed in different parts of the world due to the cultivation of nescience by the general people. No one considers that this tiny earth is just a lump of matter floating in immeasurable space along with many other lumps. In comparison to the vastness of space, these material lumps are like dust particles in the air. Because God has kindly made these lumps of matter complete in themselves, they are perfectly equipped with all necessities for floating in space. The drivers of our spaceships may be very proud of their achievements, but they do not consider the supreme driver of these greater, more gigantic spaceships called planets. There are innumerable suns and innumerable planetary systems also. As infinitesimal parts and parcels of the Supreme Lord, we small creatures are trying to dominate these unlimited planets. Thus we take repeated birth and death and are generally frustrated by old age and disease. The span of human life is scheduled for about a hundred years, although it is gradually decreasing to twenty or thirty years. Thanks to the culture of nescience, befooled men have created their own nations within these planets in order to grasp sense enjoyment more effectively for these few years. Such foolish people draw up various plans to render national demarcations perfectly, a task that is totally impossible. Yet for this purpose each and every nation has become a source of anxiety for others. More than fifty percent of a nation’s energy is devoted to defense measures and thus spoiled. No one cares for the cultivation of real knowledge, yet people are falsely proud of being advanced in both material and spiritual knowledge. Çré Éçopaniñad warns us of this faulty type of education, and the Bhagavad-gétä gives instructions as to the development of real knowledge. This mantra states that the instructions of vidyä (knowledge) must be acquired from a dhéra. A dhéra is one who is not disturbed by material illusion. No one can be undisturbed unless he is perfectly spiritually realized, at which time one neither hankers nor laments for anything. A dhéra realizes that the material body and mind he has acquired by chance through material association are but foreign elements; therefore he simply makes the best use of a bad bargain. The material body and mind are bad bargains for the spiritual living entity. The living entity has actual functions in the living, spiritual world, but this material world is dead. As long as the living spiritual sparks manipulate the dead lumps of matter, the dead world appears to be a living world. Actually it is the living souls, the parts and parcels of the supreme living being, who move the world. The dhéras have come to know all these facts by hearing them from superior authorities and have realized this knowledge by following the regulative principles. To follow the regulative principles, one must take shelter of a bona fide spiritual master. The transcendental message and regulative principles come down from the spiritual master to the disciple. Such knowledge does not come in the hazardous way of nescient education. One can become a dhéra only by submissively hearing from a bona fide spiritual master. Arjuna, for example, became a dhéra by submissively hearing from Lord Kåñëa, the Personality of Godhead Himself. Thus the perfect disciple must be like Arjuna, and the spiritual master must be as good as the Lord Himself. This is the process of learning vidyä (knowledge) from the dhéra (the undisturbed). An adhéra (one who has not undergone the training of a dhéra) cannot be an instructive leader. Modern politicians who pose themselves as dhéras are actually adhéras, and one cannot expect perfect knowledge from them. They are simply busy seeing to their own remuneration in dollars and cents. How, then, can they lead the mass of people to the right path of self-realization? Thus one must hear submissively from a dhéra in order to attain actual education.

very interesting. How do you live in this world and be detached from it? Even with my sitting at home, i still feel influenced. Sometimes I wish I could live in a underground cave (with air-con of cource) and chant. (not stay all the time, but would be nice).

True, doesn't seem worth it if the download speeds are low. I know one devotee who gave me a program to download mp3's from his PC. I thought was good, but the speed download, (I think was okay, but if the devotee is doing something himself can be bad for me or works two ways). Doing this could you run your own Web-hosting company?