ancient_paztriot

Missing the absolute one? My opinion is certainly not final… It is not the best. The problem with technology is that it is not directed by a brain. You should know that. If technology was devoted to Krsna, I'd applaud. As it is… The rich can affored technology that you can't. Is it for the people? Or is it just for their advantage? And the more they spend, the more you pay? As for the rest of your explanation… I know modern people can hardly imagine life without all these technological advantages. God help them if they can't buy their groceries and provisions from the store… it just keeps getting harder every day… what to speak of doing it yourself? You have the skills? What to do if you can't talk to someone in China the next second? Hard to compete? It makes more sense to ship vegetables around the world to you than grow them in your yard. And how did the world ever survive without machines anyhow? People must've been morons not to have machines to facilitate their life, huh? The problems of the world? We need the ultimate machine! …Adieu. (Pardon my French)

How many lives does a spaceship cost? (Not just humans). How much effort by how many for what? (Not just the death toll, but the time and effort). Silence? (… good time for silence). (Maybe we'd be better off plowing a field… at least that's honest). But by all means, you ignorant people enjoy yourself… a good machine helps! Cheer the symbol of advancement!

All the fruitive work of millions of people and the earth's resources are dovetailed for the whimsy of the rich. Why whimsy? That wealth is not spent for the public or God… Miserly aspirations. The earth is in the bag… looking ahead! Thanks. I needed that. (I'm looking for the next plug). Wearing the Inside Out Didn't recognize I'd become No more than alive I'd barely survive In a word...overrun Won't hear a sound From my mouth I've spent too long On the inside out My skin is cold To the human touch This bleeding heart's Not beating much I murmured a vow of silence and now I don't even hear when I think aloud Extinguished by light I turn on the night Wear its darkness with an empty smile I'm creeping back to life My nervous system all awry I'm wearing the inside out Look at him now He's paler somehow But he's coming round He's starting to choke It's been so long since he spoke Well he can have the words right from my mouth And with these words I can see Clear through the clouds that covered me Just give it time then speak my name Now we can hear ourselves again I'm holding out For the day When all the clouds Have blown away I'm with you now Can speak your name Now we can hear Ourselves again – Pink Floyd ............................ Technology? Advancement? … we pay for this stuff with our taxes and yet we can't even afford the little things in stores. All the frontmen justify the costs on circumstances. The wealth of the capitalists owners is ignored… The market has nothing to do with their policies. But then their progress is yours. Right? I don't know. I'm just curious. Does India give public money to capitalists too? ............................ Lost for Words I was spending my time in the doldrums I was caught in the cauldron of hate I felt persecuted and paralyzed I thought that everything else would just wait While you are wasting your time on your enemies Engulfed in a fever of spite Beyond your tunnel vision reality fades Like shadows into the night To martyr yourself to caution Is not going to help at all Because there'll be no safety in numbers When the Right One walks out of the door Can you see your eyes blighted by darkness? Is it true you beat your fists on the floor? Stuck in a world of isolation While ivy grows over the door So I open my door to my enemies And I ask could we wipe the slate clean But they tell me to please go . myself You know you just can't win High Hopes Beyond the horizon of the place we lived when we were young In a world of magnets and miracles Our thoughts strayed constantly and without boundary The ringing of the division bell had begun Along the Long Road and on down the Causeway Do they still meet there by the Cut There was a ragged band that followed our footsteps Running before time took our dreams away Leaving the myriad small creatures trying to tie us to the ground To a life consumed by slow decay The grass was greener The light was brighter With friends surrounded The nights of wonder Looking beyond the embers of bridges glowing behind us To a glimpse of how green it was on the other side Steps taken forwards but sleepwalking back again Dragged by force of some inner tide At a higher altitude with flag unfurled We reached the dizzy heights of that dreamed of world Encumbered forever by desire and ambition There's a hunger still unsatisfied Though down this road we've been so many times The grass was greener The light was brighter The taste was sweeter The nights of wonder With friends surrounded The dawn mist growing The water flowing The endless river ............................ I'm not the last word by any measure. You have your reality. How big is it?

SB 6.16.58 A human being can attain perfection in life by self-realization through the Vedic literature and its practical application. This is possible especially for a human being born in India, the land of piety. A man who obtains birth in such a convenient position but does not understand his self is unable to achieve the highest perfection, even if he is exalted to life in the higher planetary systems. PURPORT This statement is confirmed in Caitanya-caritamrta (adi 9.41). Lord Caitanya said: bharata-bhumite haila manusya-janma yara janma sarthaka kari’ kara para-upakara Everyone born in India, especially as a human being, can achieve the supreme success through the Vedic literature and its practical application in life. When one is perfect, he can render a service for the self-realization of the entire human society. This is the best way to perform humanitarian work.

SB 6.16.41 Being full of contradictions, all forms of religion but bhagavata-dharma work under conceptions of fruitive results and distinctions of “you and I” and “yours and mine.” The followers of srimad-Bhagavatam have no such consciousness. They are all Krsna conscious, thinking that they are Krsna’s and Krsna is theirs. There are other, low-class religious systems, which are contemplated for the killing of enemies or the gain of mystic power, but such religious systems, being full of passion and envy, are impure and temporary. Because they are full of envy, they are full of irreligion. PURPORT Bhagavata-dharma has no contradictions. Conceptions of “your religion” and “my religion” are completely absent from bhagavata-dharma. Bhagavata-dharma means following the orders given by the Supreme Lord, Bhagavan, as stated in Bhagavad-gita: sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [bg. 18.66]. God is one, and God is for everyone. Therefore everyone must surrender to God. That is the pure conception of religion. Whatever God orders constitutes religion (dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [sB 6.3.19]). In bhagavata-dharma there is no question of “what you believe” and “what I believe.” Everyone must believe in the Supreme Lord and carry out His orders. anukulyena krsnanusilanam: whatever Krsna says—whatever God says—should be directly carried out. That is dharma, religion. If one is actually Krsna conscious, he cannot have any enemies. Since his only engagement is to induce others to surrender to Krsna, or God, how can he have enemies? If one advocates the Hindu religion, the Muslim religion, the Christian religion, this religion or that religion, there will be conflicts. History shows that the followers of religious systems without a clear conception of God have fought with one another. There are many instances of this in human history, but systems of religion that do not concentrate upon service to the Supreme are temporary and cannot last for long because they are full of envy. There are many activities directed against such religious systems, and therefore one must give up the idea of “my belief” and “your belief.” Everyone should believe in God and surrender unto Him. That is bhagavata-dharma. Bhagavata-dharma is not a concocted sectarian belief, for it entails research to find how everything is connected with Krsna (isavasyam idam sarvam). According to the Vedic injunctions, sarvam khalv idam brahma: Brahman, the Supreme, is present in everything. Bhagavata-dharma captures this presence of the Supreme. Bhagavata-dharma does not consider everything in the world to be false. Because everything emanates from the Supreme, nothing can be false; everything has some use in the service of the Supreme. For example, we are now dictating into a microphone and recording on a dictating machine, and thus we are finding how the machine can be connected to the Supreme Brahman. Since we are using this machine in the service of the Lord, it is Brahman. This is the meaning of sarvam khalv idam brahma. Everything is Brahman because everything can be used for the service of the Supreme Lord. Nothing is mithya, false; everything is factual. Bhagavata-dharma is called sarvotkrsta, the best of all religious systems, because those who follow bhagavata-dharma are not envious of anyone. Pure bhagavatas, pure devotees, invite everyone, without envy, to join the Krsna consciousness movement. A devotee is therefore exactly like the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Suhrdam sarva-bhutanam: he is the friend of all living entities. Therefore this is the best of all religious systems. Whereas so-called religions are meant for a particular type of person who believes in a particular way, such discrimination has no place in Krsna consciousness, or bhagavata-dharma. If we scrutinize the religious systems meant for worship of demigods or anyone else but the Supreme Personality of Godhead, we will find that they are full of envy and therefore impure.

SB 6.14.2 King Pariksit inquired from Sukadeva Gosvami: O learned brahmana, demons are generally sinful, being obsessed with the modes of passion and ignorance. How, then, could Vrtrasura have attained such exalted love for the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Narayana? SB 6.14.2 Demigods situated in the mode of goodness and great saints cleansed of the dirt of material enjoyment hardly ever render pure devotional service at the lotus feet of Mukunda. [Therefore how could Vrtrasura have become such a great devotee?] SB 6.14.3 In this material world there are as many living entities as atoms. Among these living entities, a very few are human beings, and among them, few are interested in following religious principles. SB 6.14.4 O best of the brahmanas, Sukadeva Gosvami, out of many persons who follow religious principles, only a few desire liberation from the material world. Among many thousands who desire liberation, one may actually achieve liberation, giving up material attachment to society, friendship, love, country, home, wife and children. And among many thousands of such liberated persons, one who can understand the true meaning of liberation is very rare. PURPORT There are four classes of men, namely karmis, jnanis, yogis and bhaktas. This statement pertains especially to karmis and jnanis. A karmi tries to he happy within this material world by changing from one body to another. His objective is bodily comfort, either in this planet or in another. When such a person becomes a jnani, however, be aspires for liberation from material bondage. Among many such persons who aspire for liberation, one may actually be liberated during his life. Such a person gives up his attachment for society, friendship, love, country, family, wife and children. Among many such persons, who are in the vanaprastha stage, one may understand the value of becoming a sannyasi, completely accepting the renounced order of life. SB 6.14.5 O great sage, among many millions who are liberated and perfect in knowledge of liberation, one may be a devotee of Lord Narayana, or Krsna. Such devotees, who are fully peaceful, are extremely rare. PURPORT Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti thakura gives the following purport to this verse. Simply desiring mukti, or liberation, is insufficient; one must become factually liberated. When one understands the futility of the materialistic way of life, one becomes advanced in knowledge, and therefore he situates himself in the vanaprastha order, unattached to family, wife and children. One should then further progress to the platform of sannyasa, the actual renounced order, never to fall again and be afflicted by materialistic life. Even though one desires to be liberated, this does not mean he is liberated. Only rarely is someone liberated. Indeed, although many men take sannyasa to become liberated, because of their imperfections they again become attached to women, material activities, social welfare work and so on. Jnanis, yogis and karmis devoid of devotional service are called offenders. sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, mayavadi krsne aparadhi: one who thinks that everything is maya instead of thinking that everything is Krsna is called an aparadhi, or offender. Although the Mayavadis, impersonalists, are offenders at the lotus feet of Krsna, they may nonetheless be counted among the siddhas, those who have realized the self. They may be considered nearer to spiritual perfection because at least they have realized what spiritual life is. If such a person becomes narayana-parayana, a devotee of Lord Narayana, he is better than a jivan-mukta, one who is liberated or perfect. This requires higher intelligence. There are two kinds of jnanis. One is inclined to devotional service and the other to impersonal realization. Impersonalists generally undergo great endeavor for no tangible benefit, and therefore it is said that they are husking paddy that has no grain (sthula-tusavaghatinah). The other class of jnanis, whose jnana is mixed with bhakti, are also of two kinds—those who are devoted to the so-called false form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and those who understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead as sac-cid-ananda-vigraha [bs. 5.1], the actual spiritual form. The Mayavadi devotees worship Narayana or Visnu with the idea that Visnu has accepted a form of maya and that the ultimate truth is actually impersonal. The pure devotee, however, never thinks that Visnu has accepted a body of maya; instead, he knows perfectly well that the original Absolute Truth is the Supreme Person. Such a devotee is actually situated in knowledge. He never merges in the Brahman effulgence. As stated in srimad-Bhagavatam (10.2.32): ye ’nye ’ravindaksa vimukta-maninas tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha-buddhayah aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adho ’nadrta-yusmad-anghrayah “O Lord, the intelligence of those who think themselves liberated but who have no devotion is impure. Even though they rise to the highest point of liberation by dint of severe penances and austerities, they are sure to fall down again into material existence, for they do not take shelter at Your lotus feet.” Evidence of this same point is also given in Bhagavad-gita (9.11), wherein the Lord says: avajananti mam mudha manusim tanum asritam param bhavam ajananto mama bhuta-mahesvaram [bg. 9.11] “Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature and My supreme dominion over all that be.” When rascals (mudhas) see that Krsna acts exactly like a human being, they deride the transcendental form of the Lord because they do not know the param bhavam, His transcendental form and activities. Such persons are further described in Bhagavad-gita (9.12) as follows: moghasa mogha-karmano mogha-jnana vicetasah raksasim asurim caiva prakrtim mohinim sritah “Those who are thus bewildered are attracted by demoniac and atheistic views. In that deluded condition, their hopes for liberation, their fruitive activities and their culture of knowledge are all defeated.” Such persons do not know that Krsna’s body is not material. There is no distinction between Krsna’s body and His soul, but because less intelligent men see Krsna as a human being, they deride Him. They cannot imagine how a person like Krsna could be the origin of everything (govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami **). Such persons are described as moghasah, baffled in their hopes. Whatever they desire for the future will be baffled. Even if they apparently engage in devotional service, they are described as moghasah because they ultimately desire to merge into the Brahman effulgence. Those who aspire to be elevated to the heavenly planets by devotional service will also be frustrated, because this is not the result of devotional service. However, they are also given a chance to engage in devotional service and be purified. As stated in srimad-Bhagavatam (1.2.17): srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah punya-sravana-kirtanah hrdy antah-stho hy abhadrani vidhunoti suhrt satam “sri Krsna, the Personality of Godhead, who is the Paramatma [supersoul] in everyone’s heart and the benefactor of the truthful devotee, cleanses desire for material enjoyment from the heart of the devotee who relishes His messages, which are in themselves virtuous when properly heard and chanted.” Unless the dirt within the core of one’s heart is cleansed away, one cannot become a pure devotee. Therefore the word sudurlabhah (“very rarely found”) is used in this verse. Not only among hundreds and thousands, but among millions of perfectly liberated souls, a pure devotee is hardly ever found. Therefore the words kotisv api are used herein. srila Madhvacarya gives the following quotations from the Tantra Bhagavata: nava-kotyas tu devanam rsayah sapta-kotayah narayanayanah sarve ye kecit tat-parayanah “There are ninety million demigods and seventy million sages, who are all called narayanayana, devotees of Lord Narayana. Among them, only a few are called narayana-parayana.” narayanayana deva rsy-adyas tat-parayanah brahmadyah kecanaiva syuh siddho yogya-sukham labhan The difference between the siddhas and narayana-parayanas is that direct devotees are called narayana-parayanas whereas those who perform various types of mystic yoga are called siddhas.

We think we can grasp these concepts, but even this number is inconceivable to us. I don't know Theist. (I'd like to know the structure of the universe too… from someone I trust).

SB 6.4.46 My dear brahmana, austerity in the form of meditation is My heart, Vedic knowledge in the form of hymns and mantras constitutes My body, and spiritual activities and ecstatic emotions are My actual form. The ritualistic ceremonies and sacrifices, when properly conducted, are the various limbs of My body, the unseen good fortune proceeding from pious or spiritual activities constitutes My mind, and the demigods who execute My orders in various departments are My life and soul. PURPORT Sometimes atheists argue that since God is invisible to their eyes, they do not believe in God. For them the Supreme Lord is describing a method by which one can see God in His impersonal form. Intelligent persons can see God in His personal form, as stated in the sastras, but if one is very eager to see the Supreme Personality of Godhead immediately, face to face, he can see the Supreme Lord through this description, which portrays the various internal and external parts of His body. To engage in tapasya, or denial of material activities, is the first principle of spiritual life. Then there are spiritual activities, such as the performance of Vedic ritualistic sacrifices, study of the Vedic knowledge, meditation upon the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and chanting of the Hare Krsna maha-mantra. One should also respect the demigods and understand how they are situated, how they act and how they manage the activities of the various departments of this material world. In this way one can see how God is existing and how everything is managed perfectly because of the presence of the Supreme Lord. As the Lord says in Bhagavad-gita (9.10): mayadhyaksena prakrtih suyate sa-caracaram hetunanena kaunteya jagad viparivartate “This material nature is working under My direction, O son of Kunti, and it is producing all moving and nonmoving beings. By its rule this manifestation is created and annihilated again and again.” If one is unable to see the Supreme Lord although He is present as Krsna in His various incarnations, one may see the Supreme Lord’s impersonal feature, according to the direction of the Vedas, by seeing the activities of material nature. Anything done under the direction of the Vedic injunctions is called dharma, as described by the order carriers of Yamaraja (Bhag. 6.1.40): veda-pranihito dharmo hy adharmas tad-viparyayah vedo narayanah saksat svayambhur iti susruma “That which is prescribed in the Vedas constitutes dharma, the religious principles, and the opposite of that is irreligion. The Vedas are directly the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Narayana, and are self-born. This we have heard from Yamaraja.” In this connection, srila Madhvacarya comments: tapo ’bhimani rudras tu visnor hrdayam asritah vidya rupa tathaivoma visnos tanum upasrita srngarady-akrti-gatah kriyatma paka-sasanah angesu kratavah sarve madhya-dehe ca dharma-rat prano vayus citta-gato brahmadyah svesu devatah The various demigods are all acting under the protection of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and according to their various actions the demigods are differently named.

SB 6.1.48 The omnipotent Yamaraja is as good as Lord Brahma, for while situated in his own abode or in everyone’s heart like the Paramatma, he mentally observes the past activities of a living entity and thus understands how the living entity will act in future lives. PURPORT One should not consider Yamaraja an ordinary living being. He is as good as Lord Brahma. He has the complete cooperation of the Supreme Lord, who is situated in everyone’s heart, and therefore, by the grace of the Supersoul, he can see the past, present and future of a living being from within. The word anumimamsate means that he can decide in consultation with the Supersoul. Anu means “following.” The actual decisions concerning the next lives of the living entities are made by the Supersoul, and they are carried out by Yamaraja.

SB 6.1.19 Although not having fully realized Krsna, persons who have even once surrendered completely unto His lotus feet and who have become attracted to His name, form, qualities and pastimes are completely freed of all sinful reactions, for they have thus accepted the true method of atonement. Even in dreams, such surrendered souls do not see Yamaraja or his order carriers, who are equipped with ropes to bind the sinful. PURPORT Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita (18.66): sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami ma sucah “Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.” This same principle is described here (sakrn manah krsna-padaravindayoh). If by studying Bhagavad-gita one decides to surrender to Krsna, he is immediately freed from all sinful reactions. It is also significant that sukadeva Gosvami, having several times repeated the words vasudeva-parayana and narayana-parayana, finally says krsna-padaravindayoh. Thus he indicates that Krsna is the origin of both Narayana and Vasudeva. Even though Narayana and Vasudeva are not different from Krsna, simply by surrendering to Krsna one fully surrenders to all His expansions, such as Narayana, Vasudeva and Govinda. As Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita (7.7), mattah parataram nanyat: “There is no truth superior to Me.” There are many names and forms of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but Krsna is the supreme form (krsnas tu bhagavan svayam). Therefore Krsna recommends to neophyte devotees that one should surrender unto Him only (mam ekam). Because neophyte devotees cannot understand what the forms of Narayana, Vasudeva and Govinda are, Krsna directly says, mam ekam. Herein, this is also supported by the word krsna-padaravindayoh. Narayana does not speak personally, but Krsna, or Vasudeva, does, as in Bhagavad-gita for example. Therefore, to follow the direction of Bhagavad-gita means to surrender unto Krsna, and to surrender in this way is the highest perfection of bhakti-yoga. Pariksit Maharaja had inquired from sukadeva Gosvami how one can be saved from falling into the various conditions of hellish life. In this verse sukadeva Gosvami answers that a soul who has surrendered to Krsna certainly cannot go to naraka, hellish existence. To say nothing of going there, even in his dreams he does not see Yamaraja or his order carriers, who are able to take one there. In other words, if one wants to save himself from falling into naraka, hellish life, he should fully surrender to Krsna. The word sakrt is significant because it indicates that if one sincerely surrenders to Krsna once, he is saved even if by chance he falls down by committing sinful activities. Therefore Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita (9.30): api cet su-duracaro bhajate mam ananya-bhak sadhur eva sa mantavyah samyag vyavasito hi sah “Even if one commits the most abominable actions, if he is engaged in devotional service he is to be considered saintly because he is properly situated.” If one never for a moment forgets Krsna, he is safe even if by chance he falls down by committing sinful acts. In the Second Chapter of Bhagavad-gita (2.40) the Lord also says: nehabhikrama-naso ’sti pratyavayo na vidyate svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat “In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear.” Elsewhere in the Gita (6.40) the Lord says, na hi kalyana-krt kascid durgatim tata gacchati: “one who performs auspicious activity is never overcome by evil.” The highest kalyana (auspicious) activity is to surrender to Krsna. That is the only path by which to save oneself from falling down into hellish life. srila Prabodhananda Sarasvati has confirmed this as follows: kaivalyam narakayate tri-dasa-pur akasa-puspayate durdantendriya-kala-sarpa-patali protkhata-damstrayate visvam purna-sukhayate vidhi-mahendradis ca kitayate yat-karunya-kataksa-vaibhavavatam tam gauram eva stumah The sinful actions of one who has surrendered unto Krsna are compared to a snake with its poison fangs removed (protkhata-damstrayate). Such a snake is no longer to be feared. Of course, one should not commit sinful activities on the strength of having surrendered to Krsna. However, even if one who has surrendered to Krsna happens to do something sinful because of his former habits, such sinful actions no longer have a destructive effect. Therefore one should adhere to the lotus feet of Krsna very tightly and serve Him under the direction of the spiritual master. Thus in all conditions one will be akuto-bhaya, free from fear.

A dog's master is he who feeds him. A man's master is he who gives gives him a paycheck. Why are 'people' made to jump through hoops? Someone collects money for you doing that. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Good doggy! We're so proud of living in a democracy, but we let them run all over us! Beware the future life you make for yourself… as well as now! Seems this advanced society is really about you interfacing with their machines. Can't see solidarity on any other level. Oh yeah! There's sports and tv! WE NEED guest appearances of influencial people on a show about the richest families raping the planet for the last century. (Be a good history lesson too). Entertain us! Do politicians and actors seem to have alot in common? Wouldn't the politicians and corporate misers be a little more interesting playing themselves? The truth is stranger than fiction. I bet much of the mirth of liberated souls is watching idiots like us. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I bet some rich fool steals my idea and makes a fortune with it. But you won't see it till after the money runs out. By then, your options for independence have dropped precipitously. All you can do is consume the sh_t they feed ya. Doesn't sound that far away does it? You pay for this, but they give you that. And somewhere along the way you just stop caring… or do I mean feeling?

http://vedabase.net/sb/5/21/en

Is mental energy anyless real than denser forms of matter? … Uh, I was thinking more in terms of dovetailing. It must be if it is illusion and we are not seeing things as Krsna does. How many of us are competing for the same resources? Are all those claims on matter legit? ..................... But what need is there for that. I wouldn't say need. An example would be experiences many of us felt (so long ago) when we first found Krsna. We had impulses we couldn't control… we couldn't just do the regs. or anything. Most of us still can't follow the many principles - including me. But still, one tries to serve… even in his nonsense… because he has that calling. So I'm questioning the spirituality of that? Then it seems to me so much of ISKCON's strength and success wasn't the qulifications so much as this response to the calling. (But that was a brighter time).

SB 5.26.24 If in this life a man of the higher classes [brahmana, ksatriya and vaisya] is very fond of taking his pet dogs, mules or asses into the forest to hunt and kill animals unnecessarily, he is placed after death into the hell known as Pranarodha. There the assistants of Yamaraja make him their targets and pierce him with arrows. PURPORT In the Western countries especially, aristocrats keep dogs and horses to hunt animals in the forest. Whether in the West or the East, aristocratic men in the Kali-yuga adopt the fashion of going to the forest and unnecessarily killing animals. Men of the higher classes (the brahmanas, ksatriyas and vaisyas) should cultivate knowledge of Brahman, and they should also give the sudras a chance to come to that platform. If instead they indulge in hunting, they are punished as described in this verse. Not only are they pierced with arrows by the agents of Yamaraja, but they are also put into the ocean of pus, urine and stool described in the previous verse. SB 5.26.25 A person who in this life is proud of his eminent position, and who heedlessly sacrifices animals simply for material prestige, is put into the hell called Visasana after death. There the assistants of Yamaraja kill him after giving him unlimited pain. PURPORT In Bhagavad-gita (6.41) Krsna says, sucinam srimatam gehe yoga-bhrasto ’bhijayate: “Because of his previous connection with bhakti-yoga, a man is born into a prestigious family of brahmanas or aristocrats.” Having taken such a birth, one should utilize it to perfect bhakti-yoga. However, due to bad association one often forgets that his prestigious position has been given to him by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and he misuses it by performing various kinds of so-called yajnas like kali-puja or durga-puja, in which poor animals are sacrificed. How such a person is punished is described herein. The word dambha-yajnesu in this verse is significant. If one violates the Vedic instructions while performing yajna and simply makes a show of sacrifice for the purpose of killing animals, he is punishable after death. In Calcutta there are many slaughterhouses where animal flesh is sold that has supposedly been offered in sacrifice before the goddess Kali. The sastras enjoin that one can sacrifice a small goat before the goddess Kali once a month. Nowhere is it said that one can maintain a slaughterhouse in the name of temple worship and daily kill animals unnecessarily. Those who do so receive the punishments described herein.

SB 5.21.11 From the residence of Yamaraja the sun travels to Nimlocani, the residence of Varuna, from there to Vibhavari, the residence of the moon-god, and from there again to the residence of Indra. In a similar way, the moon, along with the other stars and planets, becomes visible in the celestial sphere and then sets and again becomes invisible. PURPORT In Bhagavad-gita (10.21) Krsna says, naksatranam aham sasi: “Of stars I am the moon.” This indicates that the moon is similar to the other stars. The Vedic literature informs us that within this universe there is one sun, which is moving. The Western theory that all the luminaries in the sky are different suns is not confirmed in the Vedic literature. Nor can we assume that these luminaries are the suns of other universes, for each universe is covered by various layers of material elements, and therefore although the universes are clustered together, we cannot see from one universe to another. In other words, whatever we see is within this one universe. In each universe there is one Lord Brahma, and there are other demigods on other planets, but there is only one sun.

SB 5.18.6 At the end of the millennium, ignorance personified assumed the form of a demon, stole all the Vedas and took them down to the planet of Rasatala. The Supreme Lord, however, in His form of Hayagriva retrieved the Vedas and returned them to Lord Brahma when he begged for them. I offer my respectful obeisances unto the Supreme Lord, whose determination never fails. ........................ Does anybody have a detailed account of this or more on Hayagriva?

SB 5.17.4 After purifying the seven planets near Dhruvaloka [the polestar], the Ganges water is carried through the spaceways of the demigods in billions of celestial airplanes. Then it inundates the moon [Candraloka] and finally reaches Lord Brahma’s abode atop Mount Meru. PURPORT We should always remember that the Ganges River comes from the Causal Ocean, beyond the covering of the universe. After the water of the Causal Ocean leaks through the hole created by Lord Vamanadeva, it flows down to Dhruvaloka (the polestar) and then to the seven planets beneath Dhruvaloka. Then it is carried to the moon by innumerable celestial airplanes, and then it falls to the top of Mount Meru, which is known as Sumeru-parvata. In this way, the water of the Ganges finally reaches the lower planets and the peaks of the Himalayas, and from there it flows through Hardwar and throughout the plains of India, purifying the entire land. How the Ganges water reaches the various planets from the top of the universe is explained herein. Celestial airplanes carry the water from the planets of the sages to other planets. So-called advanced scientists of the modern age are trying to go to the higher planets, but at the same time they are experiencing a power shortage on earth. If they were actually capable scientists, they could personally go by airplane to other planets, but this they are unable to do. Having now given up their moon excursions, they are attempting to go to other planets, but without success.

Almost… SB 5.16.16 On the lower slopes of Mandara Mountain is a mango tree named Devacuta. It is 1,100 yojanas high. Mangoes as big as mountain peaks and as sweet as nectar fall from the top of this tree for the enjoyment of the denizens of heaven. SB 5.16.17 When all those solid fruits fall from such a height, they break, and the sweet, fragrant juice within them flows out and becomes increasingly more fragrant as it mixes with other scents. That juice cascades from the mountain in waterfalls and becomes a river called Arunoda, which flows pleasantly through the eastern side of Ilavrta. ............................... Sounds lovely. But when it's advanced, it will look like our planet.

This cashlless society is really about surveillance and control. Loss of liberty will follow. .......................... Cash: An endangered species Move to electronic transactions poses personal risks SAN FRANCISCO (CBS.MW) - Rocket ahead 20 years. You're standing in front of an old bank branch that's now a senior-citizens' fitness center, pointing to the recess where the ATM used to be, and struggling to explain a relic's purpose to your child or grandchild. "It was a machine that dispensed cash," you say. "It was revolutionary in its time." "But what did you need cash for, Grandpa?" The idea may sound far-fetched, but the U.S. is much closer to becoming a cashless society than most of us realize. And while conspiracy theorists warn of Big Brother privacy threats, the disappearance of hard currency poses a far more serious danger to Americans' financial self-discipline. Just consider: • Credit- and debit-card purchases now make up the bulk of all retail transactions. Card scanners are installed everywhere from soda machines and parking meters, to fast-food counters and unstaffed gas stations. Rarely will consumers see "Minimum $10 purchase required" signs anymore. • As the middleman in the check-cashing system, the Federal Reserve processed 15.8 billion paper checks last year, the fourth straight annual decline, and down 4.7 percent from 2002. Eager for customers to abandon checks for fee-generating debit cards and online bill-payment, banks are charging ever-stiffer fees for using them. • Automated Clearing House (ACH) transactions - a nationwide electronic system used by financial institutions to route online bill payments and direct deposit of paychecks, Social Security benefits and tax refunds -- rose 12 percent in the U.S. in 2003. The total reached 10 billion payments valued at $27.4 trillion. • Federal Reserve officials confess they have no idea how much money moves through the economy as cash vs. other means. Yet the Fed is promoting electronic banking because it stands to save big itself -- it costs the Fed a nickel to process a paper check and a penny for an ACH transaction. A tangible asset Money by its nature is abstract. And the less cash that flows through our hands, the more intangible it becomes and the more we lose our sense of its real value. Forget about the demonized credit card; our own banked assets are now an electronic apparition. Paychecks are direct deposited, debit cards act as a cash surrogate and mortgages, car payments and even our monthly newspaper-delivery costs are automatically withdrawn from checking and credit-card accounts. These three major economic developments derived in part from consumers losing their spending discipline from holding less cash: 1. Personal bankruptcies soared to new records throughout years of unprecedented prosperity in the late 1990s. Some blamed easy credit, but the increasing disappearance of cash contributed to a "money comes, money goes" attitude. 2. Untold millions of people threw hard-earned cash at the stock-market bubble and hot tech companies whose CEOs couldn't guess what decade their firms would be profitable. We sensed it was funny money, but no one's giddy anymore. 3. The consumer-spending spree that drove economic growth for two decades owed much to soon-to-be antiquated ATMs. They made money widely available around-the-clock starting in the early 1980s and had far more to do with juicing spending than will ever be fully measured. The long and the short of it: What we've gained in convenience we've lost in accountability. We technically still have "cash flows," but they're now fuzzy numbers on our personal balance sheets, rather than cash-on-hand and debts owed. Chip and dip Consider the debit card, for instance. It's much like the chips that casinos give you to render you blind, so you won't see that $50 chip you just dropped hitting 15 in blackjack as real money. Banks are only too pleased if you similarly exhaust your checking account. In years past, banks sought deposits, but now they want fee income and debit cards bring secure revenue where handling checks costs money and bears greater risk. Just like casinos ply you with free booze to encourage you to play, the banks offer unfettered access to your money just hoping you'll spend. They make a percentage on each debit-card transaction, much like credit cards, so the more you drop the more they make. It's initially coming out of the merchant's hide, not theirs, but ultimately it's the consumer who pays. So what's the downside to liberating ourselves from carrying cash? Let's take inventory: • Where once Americans stood in a teller line to cash their paychecks, the vast majority of us now have the "benefit" of direct deposit. Gone is the sense of reward for our labor and the weekly taking stock of our finances. Now, we spend what we have, pay what we must and save next to nothing. • The grocery bill rings up an unexpected $142 and we settle the tab with a debit card and a few keystrokes. We'd stopped for bread, milk, yogurt and sliced turkey, but loaded up on frozen food, gourmet coffee and choice cuts of meat. It's food, right? Nothing frivolous there. • The checking-account statement comes in, and if we bother to square the numbers, they're massively out of whack. We yell at our spouses for not entering debit-card receipts and then remember there's still a week's worth in our own wallet. • And then comes the monthly credit-card statement. We've got a $210 balance without ever pulling out the plastic that month. Our cable service, Internet access and cell-phone are automatically billed. If we don't pay the balance, no sweat. We run up a little interest on our cost-of-living. These are all non-discretionary items, right? Mind you, this is no Luddite's call to arms, advocating the stashing of cash under the mattress. Technology is simply making it easy not to count every dollar. And where's that going to lead us? Before you apply for a new "smart card," consider the tradeoff for convenience. The next time you're making a major purchase, say for a new washing machine, go to the bank, take out $450 and count out that fistful of bills for the sales clerk. You'll have a fuller appreciation of the cost, the satisfaction of exchanging tangible earnings for your betterment -- and a sense of just what we're losing.

It's obvious that Prabhupada is speaking about failure of duty. Krsna can certainly do anything He wants. But that doesn't mean the current program is His desire. If we people do not take the initiative to serve Krsna sincerely… well, He's probably not gonna bother showing up to do it Himself. I mean He just did that! You don't have to be a pure devotee to serve. Seems to me that takes many lifetimes. You just have to have a little intelligence to engage in satisfying His desire. That resolution is the purifying force. We are used to tasting success when cheating others. But that doesn't happen with Krsna. We are cheating ourselves.

SB 5.5.21–22 Of the two energies manifest [spirit and dull matter], beings possessing living force [vegetables, grass, trees and plants] are superior to dull matter [stone, earth, etc.]. Superior to nonmoving plants and vegetables are worms and snakes, which can move. Superior to worms and snakes are animals that have developed intelligence. Superior to animals are human beings, and superior to human beings are ghosts because they have no material bodies. Superior to ghosts are the Gandharvas, and superior to them are the Siddhas. Superior to the Siddhas are the Kinnaras, and superior to them are the asuras. Superior to the asuras are the demigods, and of the demigods, Indra, the King of heaven, is supreme. Superior to Indra are the direct sons of Lord Brahma, sons like King Daksa, and supreme among Brahma’s sons is Lord siva. Since Lord siva is the son of Lord Brahma, Brahma is considered superior, but Brahma is also subordinate to Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Because I am inclined to the brahmanas, the brahmanas are best of all. PURPORT In this verse the brahmanas are given a position superior to that of the Supreme Lord. The idea is that the government should be conducted under the guidance of the brahmanas. Although rsabhadeva recommended His eldest son, Bharata, as emperor of the earth, he still had to follow the instructions of the brahmanas in order to govern the world perfectly. The Lord is worshiped as brahmanya-deva. The Lord is very fond of devotees, or brahmanas. This does not refer to so-called caste brahmanas, but to qualified brahmanas. A brahmana should be qualified with the eight qualities mentioned in text 24, such as sama, dama, satya and titiksa. The brahmanas should always be worshiped. and under their guidance the ruler should discharge his duty and rule the citizens. Unfortunately, in this age of Kali, the executive is not selected by very intelligent people, nor is he guided by qualified brahmanas. Consequently, chaos results. The mass of people should be educated in Krsna consciousness so that according to the democratic process they can select a first-class devotee like Bharata Maharaja to head the government. If the head of the state is headed by qualified brahmanas, everything is completely perfect. In this verse, the evolutionary process is indirectly mentioned. The modern theory that life evolves from matter is to some extent supported in this verse because it is stated, bhutesu virudbhyah. That is, the living entities evolve from vegetables, grass, plants and trees, which are superior to dull matter. In other words, matter also has the potency to manifest living entities in the form of vegetables. In this sense, life comes out of matter, but matter also comes out of life. As Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita (10.8), aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate: “I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me.” There are two energies—material and spiritual—and both originally come from Krsna. Krsna is the supreme living being. Although it may be said that in the material world a living force is generated from matter, it must be admitted that originally matter is generated from the supreme living being. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam. The conclusion is that everything, both material and spiritual, is generated from the Supreme Being. From the evolutionary point of view, perfection is reached when the living entity attains the platform of a brahmana. A brahmana is a worshiper of the Supreme Brahman, and the Supreme Brahman worships the brahmana. In other words, the devotee is subordinate to the Supreme Lord, and the Lord is inclined to see to the satisfaction of His devotee. A brahmana is called dvija-deva, and the Lord is called dvija-deva-deva. He is the Lord of brahmanas. The evolutionary process is also explained in Caitanya-caritamrta (Madhya, Chapter Nineteen), wherein it is said that there are two types of living entities—moving and nonmoving. Among moving entities. there are birds, beasts. aquatics, human beings and so on. Of these. the human beings are supposed to be the best, but they are few. Of these small numbers of human beings, there are many low-class human beings like mlecchas, Pulindas, bauddhas and sabaras. The human being elevated enough to accept the Vedic principles is superior. Among those who accept the Vedic principles generally known as varnasrama (presently known as the Hindu system), few actually follow these principles. Of those who actually follow the Vedic principles, most perform fruitive activity or pious activity for elevation to a high position. Manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye: [bg. 7.3] out of many attached to fruitive activity, one may be a jnani—that is, one philosophically inclined and superior to the karmis. Yatatam api siddhanam kascin mam vetti tattvatah: [bg. 7.3] out of many jnanis, one may be liberated from material bondage, and out of many millions of liberated jnanis, one may become a devotee of Krsna.

"… we are the cheater or the cheated, that's it." I see both to blame… both have to agree to the process.

The first one also provides HOPE not found anywhere else. Everyone has access to the highest truth. To sum it up: the biggest hypocrites rule. (I'm in a postion to profit from ISKCON sales. But I find the whole concept disgusting).

let the truth be know… (I hope ISKCON is still doing that duty in a few months… considering the bankruptcy).

Giant banks feasting on little people… SAN FRANCISCO (CBS.MW) -- In a California Senate hearing room, officials of Wells Fargo and Bank of America did their utmost to explain why their banks are picking the pockets of the poor.The issue: How come two leading U.S. banks charge workers $5 to cash payroll checks drawn on their employers' accounts at the banks, when doing so violates a nearly 100-year-old state labor law? BofA and Wells are now facing class-action suits from employees and employers over the practice. "They're basically requiring people to pay them to get paid," said Democratic state Sen. Dean Florez, who convened the special hearing March 30 on the banks' fees. "They've hit the lowest of the low. This is just morally bankrupt." The dubious fee is the latest glaring example of how banks, brokerages and other financial-service firms are nickel-and-diming Americans of modest means in their relentless rush to boost "fee-based income." As Consumer Reports notes in its May issue, fee income is a major profit center for the financial-services industry, as borne out by several first-quarter earnings reports. Banks once generated profits by lending out depositors' money. Now, they make them on huge markups on "services" provided to depositors. Americans paid an estimated $216 billion in such fees last year. The larceny is that many fees, as Consumer Reports notes, "are no-see-ums embedded in fine print or collected so seamlessly that consumers don't realize they've paid them until long after the fact." That is, if they ever do. "Wells Fargo holds itself up as a leader of the community," said Donna Chaffee, co-owner of 60-employee Ability Answering Service in Bakersfield, Calif., the lead plaintiff in a class-action suit set to be filed against the bank, following a similar suit against BofA filed Wednesday. "But they're not. They're a thief in the night." The ways in which the money handlers are extracting add-on charges for electronic transfers that cost a pittance have become remarkable: Overdraft charges now run as much $35 per "insufficient funds" check presented, even though it costs banks less than $1 to process a check that they don't honor, according to Consumer Reports' findings. Many credit-card issuers have cut the grace period for payment from 31 to as little as 20 days -- without deducting for the mailing period on statements. That's a calculated move to boost late-payment fees. Some also hold payments not returned in preprinted envelopes for five-days, claiming that extends processing time, further triggering late fees. Some stock-brokerage firms such as E-Trade charge $5 to $10 to cut customers a check for proceeds of a stock sale or an exercise of stock options. The account holders have no choice but to pay -- the money is held hostage otherwise. Some banks charge fees of $5 to $10 if a savings account paying a whopping 0.25 percent or so in annual interest falls below a certain minimum. Forget that they're lending out deposits on 6 percent mortgages or 19 percent credit cards. The privileged few I got hit with such a charge from Wells Fargo when the savings account I maintained for overdraft protection fell below the requisite $300 level. When I complained the bank was charging me for an account, I discovered I'm actually an individual of high standing who can escape such a fleecing. A bank manager said that because I had more than $25,000 in assets or debts with the bank (in my case, it's unfortunately a deeply tapped home equity line of credit), I qualified for a "Portfolio Management Account" that waives all sorts of extraneous fees. And therein lies the injustice -- Americans of greater means don't have to succumb to the banks' chicanery. Banks don't want your business any more if you're not a fat cat. And so they stick it to those who aren't by slamming them with fees for what once was simply the cost of doing business. Under the charters that banks receive from the federal and state governments, they're obligated to serve the public in a nondiscriminatory fashion. Trouble is, states that find the major banks' bias based on income levels objectionable will likely find any law curbing the practice slapped down by federal appeals courts that rule national banking laws preempt state statutes. The banks' obsession with fees would be forgivable if they charged a pass-along cost or a slight markup to small-account holders. Instead, they extract windfall profits from middle-class Americans -- further evidence of why the rich get richer and the rest of us struggle. Some banks have rigged their processing software to maximize fees against overdrawn customers. Presented with one $225 check and five $20 checks on an account containing $200, the banks will first "honor" the $225 check and charge an overdraft fee -- and then not cover the five others. That way, they're $25 in the hole but reap six overdraft charges, when they could have paid the five smaller checks out of the account, declined the $225 check for insufficient funds, and reaped just one overdraft charge. That's not something your friendly neighborhood banker of old would have done. Is this what deregulators envisioned? Banks argue that their fee structure is a result of 1980s deregulation -- the very deregulation they fought for to enter nonbanking activities such as mutual funds and insurance. Deregulation made the lending business far more competitive and cut into loan margins, which turned banks' profit sights onto depositors. The shift, already well under way in the 1990s, became more pronounced in the new millennium as interest rates hit 50-year lows and loan margins got squeezed even tighter. A BofA spokesman noted that account-holders have reaped incredible benefits in the last 20 years with the availability of ATMs, debit cards and online bill-paying -- and said suggesting that banks are profiteering from those services is "an oversimplification." Yet each of those "enhanced services" has been a far greater benefit to banks than to consumers: ATMs may afford us far greater access to our money than in the days when banks stayed open only from 9-to-3 Monday through Friday, but they've vastly reduced the need for tellers and paper processors, and reap billions in fees for the steep markups on "outsider" usage. Visa said last month that its total debit-card transactions exceeded credit-card transactions in 2003. Debit cards have been a godsend to banks in eliminating the cost of processing and storing checks that might have been used instead of the cards. Banks also reap percentage fees from merchants just as they receive on credit cards. And they minimize nonpayments on credit cards, since the money is immediately taken from the cardholder's checking account. Online bill-payment, running about $5.95 a month, similarly reduces the cost of processing and storing paper checks, but account holders must pay for this cutting-edge "privilege." In short, the technology that banks masterfully employed to slash their costs have also been the means for boosting fee-income on "improved" services. One journalist's question on fairness The California hearings were kicked off by a series of columns by David Lazarus of the San Francisco Chronicle. Lazarus noted how the fees charged to workers cashing paychecks violated a 1911 state law prohibiting employers "or their agents" from extracting a premium in the process. Florez, whose Central Valley farming district is a temporary home to many migrant field workers, took up the issue. Migrant workers are especially hard hit by the fees, which at $250 a year based on their weekly paychecks consume a week's worth of income. The banks argued that workers could escape such fees if they and their employers opened direct-deposit accounts with the bank. But migrant workers don't know what bank will have branches in their next destination, be it picking apples in Washington or field crops in Mississippi. They can't put a permanent address on their checks. And checks with their last temporary address wouldn't likely be honored in the next state they migrate to. The banks' solution was offensive to some small-business account holders, who are also getting raked. Namely, they must pay a fee for every deposit they make -- an unconscionable charge in its own right. Add to that selective application of the fees. San Francisco Treasurer Susan Leal threatened to pull the city's payroll account from BofA upon discovering it imposed paycheck-cashing fees on the city's 27,000 workers, prompting BofA to waive the fee to keep a major client. In testifying why they charge the fees, the banks said that no-accounts (that's actually what they're called) crowd teller lines and cause delays for bona fide customers. God forbid the Great Unwashed should enter their branches. They also made no bones that their aim was to pressure these payroll recipients and their employers into opening direct-deposit accounts -- which of course would yield greater fees for the banks from the small-business employers and their "free-checking" account employees. It's nothing short of legalized extortion. As controller of the Karis House, a nonprofit that runs several California group homes for delinquent boys, Jim King said he stepped up as lead plaintiff in the employer class action against BofA because the bank charged one of his employees $5 to cash a $13 expense check drawn on the company's account. "That's just extortion, using leverage to get our employees to open an account," King said. "Some of our employees have to work an hour just to cash a check." In this day and age, it doesn't just take money to make money; it now takes money to preserve what little money you have. "Banks learned that the fee you didn't know you had to pay when you comparison-shopped never entered into your purchase decision," said NetBank CEO Douglass Freeman, who formerly worked for Wells and BofA. "In the mouse type, they hide a lot of disclosures." Forgive me, but isn't highway robbery still illegal in this country?