Dharma

Ram, It most definately is Vedic-an ancient tradition of enlightenment. There was deep understanding of what happens when point of awareness & kundalini meet in upper chakras it has a profound biological effect. There is a sensation of the brains boiling at times. The skull makes popping and cracking sounds. In some instances the skull changes shape to some degree. Perhaps in Vedic times they did not call it DNA, but the effect was the same. I do not know about the tests. Quite probably as some of the monastic order are scientists. It would be interesting to find out. Did measure one man's face daily during a mukti yajna there and his eyes moved from the center of the face a little over a 1/4 of an inch. The saints & sages of India proved to the Bristish that all aspects of Hinduism were geared to mukti. It is merely bringing that ancient natural state back to man. It is an "experience for yourself dharma" in Vedic tradition. In that respect it is only personal discovery that annihilates ignorance (belief) and while surely it is a blessing to believe. At one point or another in one's evolution it must become one's own person experience or discovery. I owe an apology, when I first entered this board I misunderstood & thought it was an Indian Mysticism site but am seeing that it is more a board for devotees of Krishna. I would not have posted about this subject had I have known and meant no offense. Still some of this is confusing to me. If I were a devotee of Krishna or Buddha and there was even a rumor of an incarnation of my Lord(it is understood that according to Pauranic tradition Krishna, Buddha & Kalki are avatars of Vishnu)I would want to discover for myself if this was or was not so. One way or another I would have to know. Heresay & speculation would not suffice. Yet there is alot of speculation and condemnation from people who have only heard the name Kalki once or twice. Impossible many would say-That's in the future. "Impossible now" seems to be the mind set and it is this thought process that is keeping many from liberation. Most religion is geared around no stop "becoming" or "pie in the sky." Enlightenment surely annihilate belief and religion. It is quite obvious that both the Christ and the Buddha, both concerned with liberation of man transcended belief. Unfortutately a whole new bevy of concepts arose to make further use of man. "Someday I will go to heaven. Someday I will not hate my realtives, someday I will be compassionate. Someday I will be rich." Someday I will be enlightened. But not today. Just someday." Even the past-the non stop quoting of scriptures and reading and living through experiences of others such as a few sages and mystics is preferable to the present it seems. Definatey it is blessed to believe. Even necessary as a first step. But at some point it must become one's own experience or discovery. When will that be? Someday? We are so conditioned by this "someday" when someone opens the door to the cage it is deemed an illusion! Impossible! Maybe. But then again maybe not. Enlightenment is possible here and now. There are many paths. It just seems like we are rolling kind of high here going on heresay and judgements and not relying on personal discovery. What I will say is Kalki Bhagavan can give enlightenment experiences and in some instances full enlightenment right now. For those who would only bother to speculate or condemn (my feeling is that you are rolling kind of high here-what if you are wrong?) I suppose the proof of the pudding is the pudding. Time will indeed tell. The divine mission in part of the Kalki Avatar-a later incarnation of Krishna-is to close the Iron Age and usher in the Golden as well as liberate all of mankind from suffering. ACcording to the mahavakyas of Kalki at the end of that 10,000 year period there will no longer be human consciousness but Divine consciousness. This can be read on many levels. So if masses become enlightened at the rate they are going-the count escalates every year-then perhaps he is the sampoorna avatar. If masses are not enlightened then it is very much like the man walking the beach throwing suffering starfish back into the sea. The number or starfish he is liberating has little impact on starfish as a species. But to each starfish it is the world of utmost impact. Here's a recent article. BHAGAVAN'S BHASHYA Extract from Krupa Darshan (Magazine) December 2001 These are excerpts taken from Purushottama Kalki Bhagavan directly speaking to HIS devotees at the concluding sessions of various Ananda Yagnas. One can experience and live HIS Supreme Love and extreme concern for man in all their variety in these conversations. Answers given by Sri Kalki Bhagavan in the various yagnas have liberated many a soul from the torments of human suffering and has given them a newer meaning and a purpose for their existence on this planet. Hence, it is my sincere and heartfelt wish to all the readers to go through these columns with utmost devotion and humility, for it is my personal conviction and faith that these few divine lines coming from the mouth of the Supreme Avathara shall take you into the depths of Love and Compassion. I have done my best to bring down these lively divine conversations verbatim and I present these to all the suffering millions. - Pujya Sri Akshayamati Bhagavad Dasaji Devotee: Bhagavan, how is Mukti different from Moksha? Bhagavan, will all the devotees who have attended Moksha Yagna attain Moksha? Sri Kalki Bhagavan : Mukti and Moksha are very different. Mukti is a happening while you are alive on this earth, i.e., "experiencing the reality as it is". Right now, you have no idea as to what reality is. You have no idea how the fan looks like. The way you are looking is different from the way an enlightened person looks. In his looking, there is such joy in just looking at the fan. Every sensory experience is joy. Whereas you say, "Oh! It is only a horrible little fan". Your mind is continuously commenting. Moksha is attained after death. It is basically liberation from the cycle of births and deaths. When you attain Moksha, you get entry into Satyaloka and you can choose to incarnate in any loka you want to. Attaining Moksha does not depend on your karma or any specific agreement. After death, your life is reviewed and as it is reviewed, if you say, 'I don't want to go back: I want to stay in Satyaloka; they can't say 'no'. This is the secret. Once you ask, nobody can be rejected in Satyaloka. You have to be taken in. You have full freedom to incarnate or not to incarnate. But strangely, most of the people want to come back because of attachment, unfulfilled desires or because they are not able to forgive themselves and want to come back for learning. But the devotees who have attended the Moksha Yagna will not come back. Because, the dialogue which they had with Me i.e. asking for Moksha will be shown to them along with the life review. As they see, they would remember they sought moksha and that I blessed them with it. They simply have to say we want to stay back and they are granted moksha. In a way, they are blessed because even if the forget due to their attachments or strong desires, the moment they see the life review they will be reminded of the Darshan they had and that they have to ask for Moksha. Devotee : Padapranams Bhagavan. Bhagavan, people say nothing is perfect! Does this apply to the creation of the Universe also? Sri Kalki Bhagavan : It all depends upon how you view things. You can say a glass is half full or half empty. You can either say nothing is perfect or you can say everything is perfect. So, through this Yagna, when you really know what it is to SEE, everything will be perfect for you. Perfection or imperfection is only in your thought. As long as thought is controlling your life, there will be opposites - perfect and imperfect, good and bad, right and wrong. Because, thought itself is divisive in nature. The structure of thought is to compare. Without comparison, there cannot be thought at all. Your mind is unable to let go off thought, and thought is only memory and if you study the nature of memory, you'll find, it is not only association but comparison also is involved. It always postulates the opposites. So, in thought, the trouble is that the opposites always exist. Only when you transcend thought will you be able to experience everything as it is. That is what this yagna (Mukti or Ananda Yagna) is all about. As you go deep into the yagna, possibly many of you will get into these states. Then, you use thought when necessary. Otherwise there is no thought. When thought is not required there is no division and hence no conflict. There is just direct perception. Then everything is fine as it is. Devotee: Bhagavan, many people ask for so many boons and Amma and Bhagavan fulfill them with compassion. How do you make it happen? Sri Kalki Bhagavan : It is not really very difficult for Me to grant a boon to you. Suppose you want a car, all that I do is picturise a car. That is it. But the problem is, you have to be in a certain condition to receive it. The first thing is Helplessness. Unfortunately, most of you are not in a state of helplessness. Somewhere you feel "Okay, I can do it myself". You have to be very clear that wherever you can do things yourself, I will not intervene. Suppose you have a headache. You can go to a shop, buy a tablet and get well. I will not help. But say, there is nobody to treat you, then I'll do the healing. My grace can come in many ways. Sometimes, I will give you money to go to the doctor. At other times, you may have to go in for a surgery and I will be there giving you Grace. I can also cure you simply without any treatment whatsoever. If you can do it for yourself, why should I help you? But there are situations where you have to be helped. But you people don't give up so easily. You pray to Me, but secretly you have your plans. You are desperate rather than being Helpless. You keep worrying, thinking how will it be solved? Will it be solved? What should you do? Can Bhagavan do it? If yes, how will He give Grace and will Bhagavan shower me with Grace? So many thoughts cloud your mind. You are continuously talking to yourself and are tensed even though you are standing in front of Me or are remembering Me. You don't give up. Let us take an example. There is a devotee in Madras. He wanted 10,000 rupees very urgently and there was absolutely no way through which he could get the money. He said, "Bhagavan, I leave it to you. If you want to help, you help me; otherwise I am finished. But I am ready for anything. It is up to you now." He made no effort except surrender, for all his efforts were over. Now there was another devotee in Besant Nagar (Chennai) who does not know him. In his dream, I told him about the devotee who wanted the money (with name and address), and asked this devotee to send the money. This person made out a demand draft and sent it to the address. Now I could help him because he completely depended on Me. However, when people don't surrender, I cannot help. Remember, surrender does not mean that you must become my servant. It means putting aside your mind, which is the basic nuisance. It is an internal process. When you can helplessly give up, it is not difficult for me to shower you with Grace. The other thing is whatever you want must come from your Heart. That is, let us say, you like to have a nice car because you enjoy going in it. I will immediately grant you your wish. But, if you desire for a car because your friend has it, or you want to show off, then I'm not going to help you. You better work hard and buy one for yourself. So you have to check whether your Heart wants it or is it your Mind craving for the same. Many years ago, a child wanting to be doctor went to an interview for a medical seat but he was rejected. This was his passion from childhood. And unfortunately, though he did get good marks in the qualifying examinations, he was not selected. So, he and his father were returning home by train. The person sitting opposite to them enquired about the boy as he was very dull. When the father told him the reason, he said, "Don't worry, you will be a doctor". The father and son thought that he was just consoling them. A few days later, when they went for the interview, the interviewer was the person whom they had seen in the train. He gave the boy the seat and the boy later became the Dean of The Stanley Medical Hospital in Chennai. He was a very famous doctor. So, the desire of the heart brought that man in the train and he got the seat. This doctor was so grateful to God that he served the people throughout his life. So, I will give Grace to people who want something from their Heart. Grace cannot come if you want something out of comparison, envy, greed, etc. *.*.*.*.* [This message has been edited by Dharma (edited 06-13-2002).]

Ram, It most definately is Vedic-an ancient tradition of enlightenment. There was deep understanding of what happens when point of awareness & kundalini meet in upper chakras it has a profound biological effect. There is a sensation of the brains boiling at times. The skull makes popping and cracking sounds. In some instances the skull changes shape to some degree. Perhaps in Vedic times they did not call it DNA, but the effect was the same. I do not know about the tests. Quite probably as some of the monastic order are scientists. It would be interesting to find out. Did measure one man's face daily during a mukti yajna there and his eyes moved from the center of the face a little over a 1/4 of an inch. The saints & sages of India proved to the Bristish that all aspects of Hinduism were geared to mukti. It is merely bringing that ancient natural state back to man. It is an "experience for yourself dharma" in Vedic tradition. In that respect it is only personal discovery that annihilates ignorance (belief) and while surely it is a blessing to believe. At one point or another in one's evolution it must become one's own person experience or discovery. I owe an apology, when I first entered this board I misunderstood & thought it was an Indian Mysticism site but am seeing that it is more a board for devotees of Krishna. I would not have posted about this subject had I have known and meant no offense. Still some of this is confusing to me. If I were a devotee of Krishna or Buddha and there was even a rumor of an incarnation of my Lord(it is understood that according to Pauranic tradition Krishna, Buddha & Kalki are avatars of Vishnu)I would want to discover for myself if this was or was not so. One way or another I would have to know. Heresay & speculation would not suffice. Yet there is alot of speculation and condemnation from people who have only heard the name Kalki once or twice. Impossible many would say-That's in the future. "Impossible now" seems to be the mind set and it is this thought process that is keeping many from liberation. Most religion is geared around no stop "becoming" or "pie in the sky." Enlightenment surely annihilate belief and religion. It is quite obvious that both the Christ and the Buddha, both concerned with liberation of man transcended belief. Unfortutately a whole new bevy of concepts arose to make further use of man. "Someday I will go to heaven. Someday I will not hate my realtives, someday I will be compassionate. Someday I will be rich." Someday I will be enlightened. But not today. Just someday." Even the past-the non stop quoting of scriptures and reading and living through experiences of others such as a few sages and mystics is preferable to the present it seems. Definatey it is blessed to believe. Even necessary as a first step. But at some point it must become one's own experience or discovery. When will that be? Someday? We are so conditioned by this "someday" when someone opens the door to the cage it is deemed an illusion! Impossible! Maybe. But then again maybe not. Enlightenment is possible here and now. There are many paths. It just seems like we are rolling kind of high here going on heresay and judgements and not relying on personal discovery. What I will say is Kalki Bhagavan can give enlightenment experiences and in some instances full enlightenment right now. For those who would only bother to speculate or condemn (my feeling is that you are rolling kind of high here-what if you are wrong?) I suppose the proof of the pudding is the pudding. Time will indeed tell. The divine mission in part of the Kalki Avatar-a later incarnation of Krishna-is to close the Iron Age and usher in the Golden as well as liberate all of mankind from suffering. ACcording to the mahavakyas of Kalki at the end of that 10,000 year period there will no longer be human consciousness but Divine consciousness. This can be read on many levels. So if masses become enlightened at the rate they are going-the count escalates every year-then perhaps he is the sampoorna avatar. If masses are not enlightened then it is very much like the man walking the beach throwing suffering starfish back into the sea. The number or starfish he is liberating has little impact on starfish as a species. But to each starfish it is the world of utmost impact. Here's a recent article. BHAGAVAN'S BHASHYA Extract from Krupa Darshan (Magazine) December 2001 These are excerpts taken from Purushottama Kalki Bhagavan directly speaking to HIS devotees at the concluding sessions of various Ananda Yagnas. One can experience and live HIS Supreme Love and extreme concern for man in all their variety in these conversations. Answers given by Sri Kalki Bhagavan in the various yagnas have liberated many a soul from the torments of human suffering and has given them a newer meaning and a purpose for their existence on this planet. Hence, it is my sincere and heartfelt wish to all the readers to go through these columns with utmost devotion and humility, for it is my personal conviction and faith that these few divine lines coming from the mouth of the Supreme Avathara shall take you into the depths of Love and Compassion. I have done my best to bring down these lively divine conversations verbatim and I present these to all the suffering millions. - Pujya Sri Akshayamati Bhagavad Dasaji Devotee: Bhagavan, how is Mukti different from Moksha? Bhagavan, will all the devotees who have attended Moksha Yagna attain Moksha? Sri Kalki Bhagavan : Mukti and Moksha are very different. Mukti is a happening while you are alive on this earth, i.e., "experiencing the reality as it is". Right now, you have no idea as to what reality is. You have no idea how the fan looks like. The way you are looking is different from the way an enlightened person looks. In his looking, there is such joy in just looking at the fan. Every sensory experience is joy. Whereas you say, "Oh! It is only a horrible little fan". Your mind is continuously commenting. Moksha is attained after death. It is basically liberation from the cycle of births and deaths. When you attain Moksha, you get entry into Satyaloka and you can choose to incarnate in any loka you want to. Attaining Moksha does not depend on your karma or any specific agreement. After death, your life is reviewed and as it is reviewed, if you say, 'I don't want to go back: I want to stay in Satyaloka; they can't say 'no'. This is the secret. Once you ask, nobody can be rejected in Satyaloka. You have to be taken in. You have full freedom to incarnate or not to incarnate. But strangely, most of the people want to come back because of attachment, unfulfilled desires or because they are not able to forgive themselves and want to come back for learning. But the devotees who have attended the Moksha Yagna will not come back. Because, the dialogue which they had with Me i.e. asking for Moksha will be shown to them along with the life review. As they see, they would remember they sought moksha and that I blessed them with it. They simply have to say we want to stay back and they are granted moksha. In a way, they are blessed because even if the forget due to their attachments or strong desires, the moment they see the life review they will be reminded of the Darshan they had and that they have to ask for Moksha. Devotee : Padapranams Bhagavan. Bhagavan, people say nothing is perfect! Does this apply to the creation of the Universe also? Sri Kalki Bhagavan : It all depends upon how you view things. You can say a glass is half full or half empty. You can either say nothing is perfect or you can say everything is perfect. So, through this Yagna, when you really know what it is to SEE, everything will be perfect for you. Perfection or imperfection is only in your thought. As long as thought is controlling your life, there will be opposites - perfect and imperfect, good and bad, right and wrong. Because, thought itself is divisive in nature. The structure of thought is to compare. Without comparison, there cannot be thought at all. Your mind is unable to let go off thought, and thought is only memory and if you study the nature of memory, you'll find, it is not only association but comparison also is involved. It always postulates the opposites. So, in thought, the trouble is that the opposites always exist. Only when you transcend thought will you be able to experience everything as it is. That is what this yagna (Mukti or Ananda Yagna) is all about. As you go deep into the yagna, possibly many of you will get into these states. Then, you use thought when necessary. Otherwise there is no thought. When thought is not required there is no division and hence no conflict. There is just direct perception. Then everything is fine as it is. Devotee: Bhagavan, many people ask for so many boons and Amma and Bhagavan fulfill them with compassion. How do you make it happen? Sri Kalki Bhagavan : It is not really very difficult for Me to grant a boon to you. Suppose you want a car, all that I do is picturise a car. That is it. But the problem is, you have to be in a certain condition to receive it. The first thing is Helplessness. Unfortunately, most of you are not in a state of helplessness. Somewhere you feel "Okay, I can do it myself". You have to be very clear that wherever you can do things yourself, I will not intervene. Suppose you have a headache. You can go to a shop, buy a tablet and get well. I will not help. But say, there is nobody to treat you, then I'll do the healing. My grace can come in many ways. Sometimes, I will give you money to go to the doctor. At other times, you may have to go in for a surgery and I will be there giving you Grace. I can also cure you simply without any treatment whatsoever. If you can do it for yourself, why should I help you? But there are situations where you have to be helped. But you people don't give up so easily. You pray to Me, but secretly you have your plans. You are desperate rather than being Helpless. You keep worrying, thinking how will it be solved? Will it be solved? What should you do? Can Bhagavan do it? If yes, how will He give Grace and will Bhagavan shower me with Grace? So many thoughts cloud your mind. You are continuously talking to yourself and are tensed even though you are standing in front of Me or are remembering Me. You don't give up. Let us take an example. There is a devotee in Madras. He wanted 10,000 rupees very urgently and there was absolutely no way through which he could get the money. He said, "Bhagavan, I leave it to you. If you want to help, you help me; otherwise I am finished. But I am ready for anything. It is up to you now." He made no effort except surrender, for all his efforts were over. Now there was another devotee in Besant Nagar (Chennai) who does not know him. In his dream, I told him about the devotee who wanted the money (with name and address), and asked this devotee to send the money. This person made out a demand draft and sent it to the address. Now I could help him because he completely depended on Me. However, when people don't surrender, I cannot help. Remember, surrender does not mean that you must become my servant. It means putting aside your mind, which is the basic nuisance. It is an internal process. When you can helplessly give up, it is not difficult for me to shower you with Grace. The other thing is whatever you want must come from your Heart. That is, let us say, you like to have a nice car because you enjoy going in it. I will immediately grant you your wish. But, if you desire for a car because your friend has it, or you want to show off, then I'm not going to help you. You better work hard and buy one for yourself. So you have to check whether your Heart wants it or is it your Mind craving for the same. Many years ago, a child wanting to be doctor went to an interview for a medical seat but he was rejected. This was his passion from childhood. And unfortunately, though he did get good marks in the qualifying examinations, he was not selected. So, he and his father were returning home by train. The person sitting opposite to them enquired about the boy as he was very dull. When the father told him the reason, he said, "Don't worry, you will be a doctor". The father and son thought that he was just consoling them. A few days later, when they went for the interview, the interviewer was the person whom they had seen in the train. He gave the boy the seat and the boy later became the Dean of The Stanley Medical Hospital in Chennai. He was a very famous doctor. So, the desire of the heart brought that man in the train and he got the seat. This doctor was so grateful to God that he served the people throughout his life. So, I will give Grace to people who want something from their Heart. Grace cannot come if you want something out of comparison, envy, greed, etc. *.*.*.*.* [This message has been edited by Dharma (edited 06-13-2002).]

There is a really interesting newsletter that addresses with this how it often doesn't work for reasons of karma-it is called Secret Sounds at www.vaaksounds.com under newsletters.

It is interesting that some have noted that garlic in the homeopathic form only impacts carnivores. I am wondering if it is true for its alledged medicinal effects as well. There is a great legend about hyssop & garlic. The legend is that garlic is enslaving (probably this is so for the spirtual realm)and that any heavy garlic eating people will never be free. The legend goes that when trying to get his people free from Egypt Moses was experiencing challenges from Pharoah's high priests skilled in magic. He deemed that the people not eat garlic and ingest hyssop for some time while planning the exodus. They did so and were able to escape for some time. But the people were kind of addicted to the spice and not liking the bland diet began to beg and complain for garlic. They finally began eating it and experienced slavery once again. The legend is that hyssop is liberating while garlic is enslaving. I think the aryurvedic answer is very good. You won't have to go into extended explainations of Satvic diet. It will appease others. [This message has been edited by Dharma (edited 06-01-2002).]

"The time has come The Walrus said To talk of many things. Of why the sea is boiling hot And whether pigs have wings."

I wouldn't want to sue them. Who knows-it may be true. However would like to see the ad.

That is a very good point. I read once that China had the second largest Islamic population in the world. That could make for a large army. Do you think the increased conversion attempts of Asia has anything to do with growing Islamic population? I think Islam is the fastest growing religion in the USA.

Have you ever read the Tibetan Book of the Dead? It is quite interesting and the posts brought it to mind. It deals with helping a soul not to reincarnate or become a spirit and upon the time leading to death and following death the physical body of the deceased is surrounded and his friend coaches him. Anyway an interesting journey is outlined. It has been many years since I read it, but here is the theme of part of it. On one level he perceives that he is being chased by demons from his past thoughts and deeds. In that dimension all of the people in the world who are having sex can be seen by the gods. As he runs through this realm there is great temptataion to escape these demons jump into a "womb door" or other created by one of the couples and take birth again. It is the job of those around him to persuade him not to do this. Also I wanted to ad that for quite a few years fasting & Brahmacharya were part of the practice for some of the American devotees of my teacher. This is not the easiest thing as we are not a particularly sexually repressed society as in other countries. A monk of my teacher taught us to make use of that energy. It can be used for fasting or any other desire as well. If you battle a primal urge through shear will power it only leads to reformation and sometimes some psychological damage or obsession some other area of life is bound to crack. Couple that with many of the sadhanas at the start may bring strong urges and tremendous physical vitality and it is inevitable if not taught to deal desire that you can experience some difficulties that may lead to tremendous guilt or self condemnation or even scandel within a group. But if you transform the desire and make use of it rather than having it make use of you it is possible to go many days without food, sleep, and you are not a slave to sexual urges. He used the example of all day having a craving for ice cream. It is all you thought about all day. Tremendous energy is built around the thinking of it-the craving. When you get off work you go to great lengths to drive across town to the ice cream store. As you enter the store you see the people eating and you salivate in empathy. You are now at a crossroads with this desire. You can enter the store and eat the ice cream and lose energy, or you can stay with the desire-experiencing it fully and gain energy. Any time a desire is fulfilled it you will lose energy until another desire comes to you-think about the let down after buying that new car or after sex or a big meal you were so hungry for. The sadness of a realized dream. There is a let down making it necessary to entertain another desire. If you stand there and experience it fully through the others eating it-let the desire just burn. It will transform to bliss-a powerful spiritual energy. Anything experienced fully without fulfillment tends to do this. After some time of this practice not so much craving will come to you and there will be alot more energy all around. So much of the enrgy goes in to entertaining desire and when it is fulfilled you lose all of it. Kind of like letting the air out of a balloon. I think it is kind of a cruelty to just say to your kids, "Don't have sex." or to overweight people, "You are driving up our health care costs-stop eating so much." without giving them some way of processing craving or desire or some insights into the dynamics of desire. There is alot more to it that I have not posted, and certainly much more that I do not know at all. Yet I was grateful that someone took the time to help out with what seemed an illogical and difficult request at the time. So much was made possible through that practice and study of desire. It is my understanding that at one time in India the young were schooled on this-on dealing with response rather than reaction to the primal urges of sex and food. The males married later in life and there was a philosophy that your natural live would be 4 times the age you were at your first sexual encounter. [This message has been edited by Dharma (edited 05-26-2002).]

Ram, Do you have a copy or source of that ad?

It can barely survive past the moon. I am thinking that it must be a very nice body if you want to take it with you.

I remember hearing a story of an American who went to India to spend some time with a very famous guru. The guru asked him why he was there and the young man replied that he wanted to become the person that his dog sees when he looks at him. Sorry, Ramji... I will try to take it back to caste: "Everyone is born a Shudra and remains such until he receives a sacrament of the Veda and is therefore born a second time." "Nor birth nor sacraments nor study nor ancestry can decide if a person is twice born. Character & conduct can only decide." "By the power of self denial, acting slectively on the potencies of the primal seed in all, persons born in one caste may change to higher or by the contradiction of self denial, by self indulgence, and selfishness may descend into a lower. The pure upward-aspiring, the gentle speaking,the free from pride, who live with and like the Brahmins and the twice born castes continually-even such Shudras shall attain higher castes." The Aum of the Dogs: "Vaka went out to study the Vedas and a little white dog appeared to him. Many other dogs approached the white dog and said. "Oh Lord, pray for abundance for us. We desire to eat!" The white dog answered, "Come to me here tomorrow morning." "As those who pray through hymns tend to assemble, the little dogs came together and marched like a procession of priests. Each one held the tail of the one in front of it and barked out: "Aum let us eat! Aum let us drink. Aum! Aum! Aum! Aum- may the resplendent Sun who showers rain and grants food to all mortals grant us food. Oh Lord of food, bestow food upon us. Deign to grant it!"

posted by ram Most Hindus are not well versed in sastras and the religion is surviving despite governmental oppression. I am not particularly against the Christians or some thing. In fact, the Buddhists do similar thing. They play caste politics to convert people. And muslims, it is needless to say any thing. They give the bait of four wives and gulf job. I think the Christian conversion attempts of India is of deep concern, even to anthropologists. Hinduism is the last great enlightenment culture on the planet and if it were to be annihilated it would be a dark day in human consciousness. It is like ignorance is battling to perpetuate itself.

Ram, Here is a summary of an article in the Arizona Republic I thought was interesting. It is along that train of thought and is about "A Four Legged Time Bomb": In Jerusalem there is a place called the Temple Mount. It is a sacred site to Jews, Muslims & Christians as the Last Days will play out there according to tradition. It was the place where Nebuchadnezzar destroyed the Hebrews 1st temple in BC 586 and much later the Romans leveled it in 70 AD. To the Muslims it is the place where Mohammed and his horse descended into Heaven. In 685 they began to build a 35 acre site in the Old City that contained the Dome of the Rock shrine & the Al Aqsa Mosque. Now in the realm of Christian thought there must be a Third temple built so Jesus can return during the battle of Armageddon. The forces of the Antichrist are expected to clash in Israel with a 200,000,000 man army from the East. Following the Lord is expected to have a thousand year reign from the Third Temple. Anyway its a hot spot for the final days of 3 world religions, so there is of course struggle and vigilance over it. In order for the Third Temple to be built there, a perfect red heifer is required to be sacrificed. The ashes of this flawless cow were required by the ancient Hebrews to purify themselves before going into the temple. Rabbinical law forbids Jews from setting foot on the site unless they are ritually purified. If there is no perfect red heifer, the Third Temple can't be built and that means the messiah will not come. It was very fortunate that there have not been any perfect red cows in a long long time there. However a news artlcle reports that some Texas ranchers alledgedly fundamentalist Christians helped set up a cattle breeding program in Israel in 1996. And to the delight of those waiting for the Messiah-Christians & Jews alike- a perfect red heifer was born. She needed to retain her perfection for 3 years-the proper age for sacrifice but ended up sprouting some white hairs on the tip of her tale. She was no longer thought to be divine. Muslim leaders were apparently worried about the calf as there will likely be a Jewish attempt to take over the Temple Mount. That would be a sign of the Islamic apocalypse. David Landau columnist for the Israeli daily Haaretz called the heifer a "4 legged time bomb" that could "set the region on fire." The rest of the world media considered it a joke. Now there is a sucessor to the first red heifer. If strict Orthodox Rabbis declare her worthy of sacrifice many will see it as the beginning of the end. Landes writes, "It is entirely conceivable that this could trigger a new round of attempts to blow up the Dome of the Rock. Apparently in 1967 the conquering Israeli army allowed the Muslims to occupy & control the Temple Mount. The writer of the article ends with "You don't have to believe that a rust coloured calf could bring about the end of the world-or that 72 black eyed virgins await the pious Islamic suicide bomber in paradise-but there are many people who do and are prepared to act on that belief." I think it is interesting and quite mad (or at more kindly very Texas Bible belt) that the breeding of this cow-a symbol of Armagedon would be forced.

Vishal Krishna Das, I think that your post is very beautiful, ancient and expansive. What if..... I agree definately it is like magic wand. But I perceive it very much like a seed-I suppose it was how my teacher explained it to me. Sometimes it takes root right away, sometimes it does not grow at all. Sometimes it lays dormant for many years. Like the entire Universe, it all depends. I see sadhanas & sutras much like rain and sunlight and soil-helping the seed along. I often wonder how much diksha relates to the term "lineage" in Buddhism. I suspect that is what determines lineage-dating back to a time when enlightenment was more common and was given through diksha from the guru. Anyone have any thoughts on this? [This message has been edited by Dharma (edited 05-25-2002).]

quoteThey have no inner satisfaction and are driven to satisfy themselves through endless eating. They know it is bad for them but they can’t control themselves. Again, why? Because their eating orgasm interferes with their sex orgasm. Who wants to have sex with a whale? No one. So they must eat, and purge to be thin, so that they can still satisfy their desire for sex. Its funny and not funny at the same time. There are many forms of sorrow management like over eating, non stop talking, drinking, studying scriptures, taking pills, over working, yelling at the kids, womanizing, watching tv, posting on web boards, drinking, creating documentaries, etc. Overeating just is sometimes more obvious than other forms of dealing with suffering. We all have our "poisons". Some are just harder on the physical body than others. In many instances we overeat to buffer against sex. Perhaps we are in an unpleasant relationship with a mate ill choosen either when we were to young. Or perhaps he was chosen for us. I would see bulemia as evidence of a psychological suffering of one's craving for unconditional love. Humans sell out and settle for conditional love. It is the beautiful woman who is the most prized, even above the kind, the noble or the enlightened. Particularly in the West where it is the "artificial rose" which is most esteemed. ("Natural beauty" takes 3 hours...) I hardly think that it is to get sex. That seems like a very male perspective-particularly one of a being who has never been on a diet but manages his sorrow in other ways. There is little desire when one is suffering so and is in essense starving the physical body. The reproductive system will sometimes shut down for some time. Even plants that do not flower when there is physical distress or draught.

I would think that a practical and inexpensive response would be to education on how conflicting idealogies swirling about in the minds of each and every individual is erupting in conflict and violence in the outside world. It is easy to speak in terms of others, but not so easy to look at ourselves. If one takes a look at the ideals he houses (such as love, no anger, kindness, honesty, fidelity, moderation in food or drink) whatever and then looks at the pain experienced when he fails in these ideals, what choice does one have but to suffer & to try and inflict these ideals upon another-like children, or spouses, or towns, or rulers, or other countries. Painful things these ideals. So much conflict when they collide. Most painful and apt to lead to conflict are those of religion. If there is awareness of what is going on within, at the internal conflict at an individual level, the desire to inflict one's own ideals, how can anyone expect peace in any village, any city, any schoolhouse, any highway, any church or any part of the globe? If at war with oneself, one's family, one's business associates why worry so much about Moslems? Seems so far from "home". Seems logical to work on the root. [This message has been edited by Dharma (edited 05-07-2002).]

Bhaktashab, In some esoteric traditions such as alchemy, the soul of the male was said to be female and the soul of the female was said to be male. Others considered the soul to always be feminine. There are some references to the Christ as the bridegroom of the soul. There was also a term "Yeshuah" which has several meanings it can be "without evil" or "passionless Birth" or "I'suone who is born sexless." There was a time when it was an ultimate sign of attainment in some cultures for the male to change sex (much like an oyster in "r" months) or to become physically genderless. However many kind of helped it along with the practice of castration. There is some reference in obscure writings to Zarathustra (Zoraaster) being born in this genderless state. Some would say that Christian religions are made up of the history & miracles of Zarathustra. It's interesting to research if interested in origins of religion. [This message has been edited by Dharma (edited 05-05-2002).]

I do not know that there is necessarily an "Ultimate State." Nor would I say there is not one either. I only know what I perceive at this time from various experiences I have been given by Kalki Bhagavan to be the "Ultimate State" for me. It like truth is dependently arising (relative). On some level all truth is untruth. What some would consider an "Ultimate State" might be quite horrible to others and of little use to anyone at all. There are plenty of enlightened beings in an "Ultimate State" in the back alleys of temples eating elephant dung. This is of little use to mankind on the whole. Siddhartha did not attain an "Ultimate State" while living. How else could he have worked for the enlightenment of mankind? Keep in mind when Kalki Bhagavan gives dikshas for these states for quite some time they come and go much like emotions as the kundalini and awareness fluctuates. You may get flashes for some time of being one with the Universe, then for some time you will be in a state of just seeing-no judgement at all. It depends on many variables, the sadhanas you are doing, the food you have or have not eaten, the planets, the sun, the moon, the rocks, the weather, the thoughts of those around you, what is going on in Tokyo or Argentina for example. It is just like thoughts-you cannot really control them as they are so variable on many of these factors and others. I do not think that perhaps I am conveying that there are no real teachings offered by Kalki Bhagavan. What the world does not need is more teaching or another religion. More reformation & things to practice. What is offered is experience. It is a dharma geared to those seeking to experience what has been discovered by every prophet, sage, saint, or mystic. For those seeking personal discovery or experience rather than knowledge or teaching. It is not, however, for the faint hearted. No, I am not familiar with those teachings you mentioned.

I do not know that there is necessarily an "Ultimate State." Nor would I say there is not one either. I only know what I perceive at this time from various experiences I have been given by Kalki Bhagavan to be the "Ultimate State" for me. It like truth is dependently arising (relative). On some level all truth is untruth. What some would consider an "Ultimate State" might be quite horrible to others and of little use to anyone at all. There are plenty of enlightened beings in an "Ultimate State" in the back alleys of temples eating elephant dung. This is of little use to mankind on the whole. Siddhartha did not attain an "Ultimate State" while living. How else could he have worked for the enlightenment of mankind? Keep in mind when Kalki Bhagavan gives dikshas for these states for quite some time they come and go much like emotions as the kundalini and awareness fluctuates. You may get flashes for some time of being one with the Universe, then for some time you will be in a state of just seeing-no judgement at all. It depends on many variables, the sadhanas you are doing, the food you have or have not eaten, the planets, the sun, the moon, the rocks, the weather, the thoughts of those around you, what is going on in Tokyo or Argentina for example. It is just like thoughts-you cannot really control them as they are so variable on many of these factors and others. I do not think that perhaps I am conveying that there are no real teachings offered by Kalki Bhagavan. What the world does not need is more teaching or another religion. More reformation & things to practice. What is offered is experience. It is a dharma geared to those seeking to experience what has been discovered by every prophet, sage, saint, or mystic. For those seeking personal discovery or experience rather than knowledge or teaching. It is not, however, for the faint hearted. No, I am not familiar with those teachings you mentioned.

theist, Kalki Bhagavan gives the various experiences of enlightenment for some early in the journey, usually at the mukti yajnas. This is quite logical. Otherwise it is alot like sending someone out in search of a ruby with no picture or sample-just a description. All manner of shiney objects could be sought or interpreted as rubies. There are different experiences of enlightenment. There are definate biological reasons why they occur. But briefly it has to do with kundalini and point of awareness chakra meeting. In the anahata chakra there is the experience of enlightenment where one sees god in everything. It is like this. There is grass in the garden and you kiss the grass because there is grass in the garden. There is the experience that God and man are opposite ends of the same spectrum and dependently arising. It is a beautiful state-pure bliss. Total freedom and acceptance. At the next level at Swadistana there is the experience most typical to Taoism. There is no judgement. There is the realization that your thoughts are not your thoughts. You see in essense that ideas make use of you. You can see the thoughts. Which comes first, the thought or the thinker. Following is the state that some would consider common to Buddhism. It is like the Toaist state with the realization of the dependently arising nature of the Universe. One thing aries from the next. Nothing is or is not. It is so beautiful. It is not the highest state but it is an appeasement of obsession. You start to lose the sense of separate existence as you see the Universe in all that you see. It is a state of passive witnessing as there is no judgement at all. Just to see. There is great freedom in seeing. Next on the spectrum as Sahaswara is the "Thou art that." you become what you see. There is no sense of separate existence whatsoever. There are levels beyond that where you pretty much disappear. Some terrible some beautiful. I guess the answer to your quaetion of individuality is it depends on what state of enlightenment you are speaking of. There are many as there are many paths. Kalki Bhagavan rarely speaks. He gives experience so that one knows what he or she is speaking first hand. The philosophy is if it is not your experience which you re speaking, but that of another it is untruth. Great emphasis is on personal discovery. [This message has been edited by Dharma (edited 05-03-2002).]

theist, Kalki Bhagavan gives the various experiences of enlightenment for some early in the journey, usually at the mukti yajnas. This is quite logical. Otherwise it is alot like sending someone out in search of a ruby with no picture or sample-just a description. All manner of shiney objects could be sought or interpreted as rubies. There are different experiences of enlightenment. There are definate biological reasons why they occur. But briefly it has to do with kundalini and point of awareness chakra meeting. In the anahata chakra there is the experience of enlightenment where one sees god in everything. It is like this. There is grass in the garden and you kiss the grass because there is grass in the garden. There is the experience that God and man are opposite ends of the same spectrum and dependently arising. It is a beautiful state-pure bliss. Total freedom and acceptance. At the next level at Swadistana there is the experience most typical to Taoism. There is no judgement. There is the realization that your thoughts are not your thoughts. You see in essense that ideas make use of you. You can see the thoughts. Which comes first, the thought or the thinker. Following is the state that some would consider common to Buddhism. It is like the Toaist state with the realization of the dependently arising nature of the Universe. One thing aries from the next. Nothing is or is not. It is so beautiful. It is not the highest state but it is an appeasement of obsession. You start to lose the sense of separate existence as you see the Universe in all that you see. It is a state of passive witnessing as there is no judgement at all. Just to see. There is great freedom in seeing. Next on the spectrum as Sahaswara is the "Thou art that." you become what you see. There is no sense of separate existence whatsoever. There are levels beyond that where you pretty much disappear. Some terrible some beautiful. I guess the answer to your quaetion of individuality is it depends on what state of enlightenment you are speaking of. There are many as there are many paths. Kalki Bhagavan rarely speaks. He gives experience so that one knows what he or she is speaking first hand. The philosophy is if it is not your experience which you re speaking, but that of another it is untruth. Great emphasis is on personal discovery. [This message has been edited by Dharma (edited 05-03-2002).]

theist, That line is not mine but a quote from Acharya Sri Samadarshini a direct disciple of Kalki Bhagavan. It was from an interview that she gave with a new age teacher from Bali. It depends on the seeker. The mukti yajans held at Satyaloka(the abode of Kalki Bhagavan) employ the Octanga Marga or Septanga Marga. Sadhanas, dikshas & maha sutras are used to help thrust the seeker. An ancient pattern of enlightenment occurs as a result-the very early part which is very beautiful yet involves the nightmarish task of confronting oneself. It is realizing one's condition, (Siddhartha made this realization when he realized existence is suffering), embracing that condition, asking for intervention followed by profound, divine mystical experience. This is called the Union of Yoga, the Awakening of the Antayamin, personal experience with Divinity, seeing God-there are many types of this experience. Moses & the thorn bush would be an example. Such experience moves the seeker from the realm of belief to discovery and leads to almost total transformation. It shatters reformation where one is merely practicing concepts or ideals, a slave to belief. It is empiracle that only such mystical experience transforms man. All else is reformation. In this ancient pattern, insight follows leading to mukti. You can see this pattern quite easily in the lives of many enlightened beings as well as in the enlightenment of Buddha and I have seen it underlying-between all the words in books by the Delai Lama. There is alot more, I do not know how much detail you wanted. But this is a brief explaination of some of what is employed at Satyaloka.

theist, That line is not mine but a quote from Acharya Sri Samadarshini a direct disciple of Kalki Bhagavan. It was from an interview that she gave with a new age teacher from Bali. It depends on the seeker. The mukti yajans held at Satyaloka(the abode of Kalki Bhagavan) employ the Octanga Marga or Septanga Marga. Sadhanas, dikshas & maha sutras are used to help thrust the seeker. An ancient pattern of enlightenment occurs as a result-the very early part which is very beautiful yet involves the nightmarish task of confronting oneself. It is realizing one's condition, (Siddhartha made this realization when he realized existence is suffering), embracing that condition, asking for intervention followed by profound, divine mystical experience. This is called the Union of Yoga, the Awakening of the Antayamin, personal experience with Divinity, seeing God-there are many types of this experience. Moses & the thorn bush would be an example. Such experience moves the seeker from the realm of belief to discovery and leads to almost total transformation. It shatters reformation where one is merely practicing concepts or ideals, a slave to belief. It is empiracle that only such mystical experience transforms man. All else is reformation. In this ancient pattern, insight follows leading to mukti. You can see this pattern quite easily in the lives of many enlightened beings as well as in the enlightenment of Buddha and I have seen it underlying-between all the words in books by the Delai Lama. There is alot more, I do not know how much detail you wanted. But this is a brief explaination of some of what is employed at Satyaloka.

Oh sorry, missed the question about time. It is explained in part by Acharya Sri Samadarshini in above excerpt but here it is again: Ans. How long the Iron Age is going to last and when the golden age begins is determined by the movement of the earth on its orbit. When the star Mulam radiates its complete energy and the earth is at that point where it completely access this cosmic energy then we say it is Satya Yuga. The question is not one of speculation as to when Satya Yuga is going to come, whether it is going to be 1000 of years later, millions of years later. To put it simple let me tell you this—For instance you go to a doctor and the doctor tells you that your disease is going to be cured within 3 years time. You are very disappointed and sad because you are not sure if you are going to survive and tolerate the pain and live for 3 years. You go to another doctor and he says- Look it is not going to be 3 years, I am going to cure it within 3 months. Are you going to be unhappy about it and tell may be I will rather wait for 3 years? If the doctor were to show it to you that it is indeed possible to cure it in 3 months, then you would say I feel it now. I think at this point of time speculation is a waste of energy. All that we have to do is observe and see what is happening right now. Mankind definitely cannot last for the next 300,000 or 400,000 years with the kinds of minds they got, with the kinds of thoughts they got, and the kind of suffering they got. I think a few years later if mankind would go the way it is going, this planet will be inhabited by mad people who cannot take on the stress, insecurity any more. Bhagavan is today saying that the Golden age is going to be ushered within the next 12 years, Man kind is going to be enlightened and by the time it is 2025 you are going to see a different world, then it is for you to judge & see whether it is golden age or iron age. Speculation is of no use here. Lets go through the process, become enlightened and then see what the world looks like. Regards to the question whether it is the Dark Age or the golden age that’s currently going on, I would say it is the period of twilight where the darkness is fading out and sunlight is streaming in. Now kali Yuga is ending and Satya Yuga is beginning. It will definitely take next 12 years for it to come in and becomes very profound until 2025, and for it to complete it will take 1000 years from now. According to us this is Satya Yuga. The moment Bhagavan began to give this state to man it is Satya Yuga.

Oh sorry, missed the question about time. It is explained in part by Acharya Sri Samadarshini in above excerpt but here it is again: Ans. How long the Iron Age is going to last and when the golden age begins is determined by the movement of the earth on its orbit. When the star Mulam radiates its complete energy and the earth is at that point where it completely access this cosmic energy then we say it is Satya Yuga. The question is not one of speculation as to when Satya Yuga is going to come, whether it is going to be 1000 of years later, millions of years later. To put it simple let me tell you this—For instance you go to a doctor and the doctor tells you that your disease is going to be cured within 3 years time. You are very disappointed and sad because you are not sure if you are going to survive and tolerate the pain and live for 3 years. You go to another doctor and he says- Look it is not going to be 3 years, I am going to cure it within 3 months. Are you going to be unhappy about it and tell may be I will rather wait for 3 years? If the doctor were to show it to you that it is indeed possible to cure it in 3 months, then you would say I feel it now. I think at this point of time speculation is a waste of energy. All that we have to do is observe and see what is happening right now. Mankind definitely cannot last for the next 300,000 or 400,000 years with the kinds of minds they got, with the kinds of thoughts they got, and the kind of suffering they got. I think a few years later if mankind would go the way it is going, this planet will be inhabited by mad people who cannot take on the stress, insecurity any more. Bhagavan is today saying that the Golden age is going to be ushered within the next 12 years, Man kind is going to be enlightened and by the time it is 2025 you are going to see a different world, then it is for you to judge & see whether it is golden age or iron age. Speculation is of no use here. Lets go through the process, become enlightened and then see what the world looks like. Regards to the question whether it is the Dark Age or the golden age that’s currently going on, I would say it is the period of twilight where the darkness is fading out and sunlight is streaming in. Now kali Yuga is ending and Satya Yuga is beginning. It will definitely take next 12 years for it to come in and becomes very profound until 2025, and for it to complete it will take 1000 years from now. According to us this is Satya Yuga. The moment Bhagavan began to give this state to man it is Satya Yuga.