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Posts posted by Kulapavana


    In the line of Srila Rupa Goswami the siddha-pranali process is not practiced or preached.


    You should read about Vaishnava Saints from OBL Kapoor books to see how wrong that statement is.


    Bhaktivinoda Thakura received siddha pranali from his guru, Bipina Bihari and passed it onto Lalita Prasada and several other disciples.

  2. On the practical level, giving sannyasa to unqualified neophytes created far more havoc than reading rasika literature by other neophytes.


    The reputation of our movement was more tarnished by people like Kirtanananda, Bhavananda, Hansadutta and so many other rascals pretending to be sannyasis, than by anybody from the much maligned 'Gopi Bhava Club'.


    But of course the pseudo sannyasis were expert at collecting money for the movement, while the pseudo gopis were simply sitting on their rear end reading books - clearly something had to be done.

  3. Srila Jiva Gosvami wrote in Bhakti-sandarbha 312:


    kecid añöädaçäkñara-dhyänaà go-dohana-samaya-vaàçé-vädya-samäkåñöa-tat-tat-sarvamayatvena bhävayanti |

    yathä caike tädåçam upäsanaà säkñäd vraja-jana-viçeñäyaiva mahyaà çré-guru-caraëair mad-abhéñöa-viçeña-siddhy-arthamupadiñöaà bhävayämi ||


    “Some, while remembering the eighteen-syllable mantra, meditate on the pastimes of tending cows and playing flute, becoming attracted and absorbedin them. In such upäsana (worship), in order to attain my specifically desired perfection, I should meditate on that very form of a resident of Vraja my revered guru has instructed me in."

  4. An example of introduction to a manjari-svarupa is found in the sixth chapter of Prema-vilasa, as Sri Gopala Bhatta Gosvami bestows diksha-mantra to Srinivasa Acarya.




    rAdhA-kRSNa-mantra kahe kara-yuge dhari |

    kAma-bIja zunAila aGguli anusAri ||

    ei saba mantra tumi karibe smaraNa |

    yei kAle tad-Azraye karibe manana ||

    guNa-maJjarIkAzraye maNi-maJjarIkA tumi |

    tomAra yUthera vivaraNa kahi saba Ami ||

    rUpa guNa rati rasa maJjulAmaJjula |

    ei saba saGge saGgI ei anukula ||

    sevA rAgAtmikA rAga bhajanera mata |

    zrI-rUpa gosAJira vAkya Achaye sammata ||

    sevA nAma sAdhakera yata baDa Artti |

    tAhA siddha haile haya esa saba prApti ||

    sAdhana karaye deha sAdhaka nAma haya |

    sakhIra Azraya siddhi jAniha nizcaya ||



    Bhatta Gosvami spoke the Radha-Krishna mantra, holding Srinivasa’s two hands, and explained the counting of kama-bija with fingers. “You should meditate on all these mantras; at that time, contemplate on taking shelter of them. You are Mani-manjari under the shelter of Guna-manjari. I shall tell you all about your yutha (group of sakhis). Rupa, Guna, Rati, Rasa and the charming Manjula – your welfare is in being their companion. In raga-bhajana, seva is like that of the ragatmikas; this is the conclusion in Sri Rupa Gosvami’s words. As great as the sadhaka’s desire for seva and Name is, accordingly siddhi will arrive and all of this be attained. As the sadhaka chants the Names and engages in sadhana in this body, siddhi at the shelter of the sakhis is a certainty.”


    In this narrative, a description of the siddha-identity of Srinivasa was given at the time of his diksha, to be embraced while enrapt in smarana of the diksha-mantras. As the narrative continues, Sripad Bhatta Gosvami also speaks of engagement in the 64 bhakti-angas and of the need to exercise caution in the course of sadhana, remaining aloof from ninda (slander) and other evil deeds thwarting the path of attainment – all of which is pertinent information for someone about to embark on the path of raga-bhajana. The concrete attainment of the described identity and all that it entails, Bhatta Gosvami notes, will come in proportion with the sadhaka’s eagerness for seva and the worship of the Names.


    The term "siddha-pranali" is not found in any of the writings of Srila Rupa Goswami or any of the principle Gaudiya Goswamis.



    The term may not be there, but the process IS:


    Bhakti-rasämrita-sindhu 1.2.295


    sevA sAdhaka-rUpeNa siddha-rUpeNa cAtra hi |

    tad-bhAva-lipsunA kAryA vraja-lokAnusArataH ||


    The Raganuga practitioner desirous of becoming an eternal Brajavasi, should follow in the moods and mellows of those particular associates in two ways:

    - externally, in the sadhaka-deha (practitioner body) one should follow the rules of shastra

    - internally, in one’s siddha-rupa (eternal body, conceived in the mind) one should perform manasi-seva to Krishna in the company of His dearest Vrindaban companions.”


    The following Bengali translation by Krishna Das Kaviraj re-affirms Sri Rupa’s intention in Madhya 22.156-157:


    bāhya, antara, — ihāra dui ta' sādhana

    'bāhye' sādhaka-dehe kare śravaṇa-kīrtana

    'mane' nija-siddha-deha kariyā bhāvana

    rātri-dine kare vraje kṛṣṇera sevana


    Raganauga sadhan bhakti is both external and internal. Externally the sadhak performs shravan, kirtan and the other processes of Vaidhi Bhakti. Then, in one’s mentally conceived siddha-deha, service to Krishna in Vrindaban should be “internally” executed both day and night.


    This (Raganuga bhakti) ihāra is really ta' a dual dui Practice sādhana – external bāhya (and) internal – antara

    Externally 'bāhye' in the trainee body sādhaka-dehe one does kare hearing and chanting śravaṇa-kīrtana

    In the mind 'mane' one does kariyā visualize (imagine) bhāvana one's own nija perfect body siddha-deha

    and day and night ratri-dine (in the mind!) one does kare servicesevana for Krishna kṛṣṇera in Vraja vraje.


    This so-called siddha-pranali method is not approved by the acharyas, so it is therefore quite fruitless to try to practice it, even if we think there is a qualified Vaishnava-guru who can initiate us into it.


    All the acharyas in our line up to Srila Bhatisiddhanta followed the siddha-pranali method. Certainly this is not meant for the neophytes to practice, but the method itself is still valid today, as it was 100 or 200 years ago.


    Bhaktivinoda initiated his younger son, Lalita Prasada into siddha pranali, but not his older son, Bhaktisiddhanta. Perhaps it was the difference in their devotional mood that dictated this course of action to Srila Bhaktivinoda. Thus for about 100 years siddha pranali has been absent in our line but most other Gaudiya Vaishnava parivars continued to practice it.


    No sorry you misunderstand my position.


    Please accept my apologies.



    Those people you describe seem to have a lot of faith, which is wonderful, but not so much social vigilance.


    The Muslim extremists have a lot of faith too. A lot of faith mixed with a lot of ignorance and arrogance can be a very risky mix.



    Have you met Srila Prabhupada? How was your dealing with Him? Did He teach you about Krsna's philosophy? Some people I had met that had met with SP spoke that he was a very elevated person and what he spoke was Krsna conscious philosophy bearing in mind that there were also other bona fide teachers out there. But I think when those people were speaking of how SP and Krsna's philosophy was no different they were not thinking about moons, suns, and stars. They were thinking of topics of more substance ya know what I mean. And these people were certainly not part of your movement either and would be called as disfaithful to Prabhupada by your group as they went to take up other teachers once SP departed.


    Now you jump to conclusions about how I view Srila Prabhupada's teachings.


    I separate SP's core techings on Krsna consciousness from his personal opinions on various matters (including science and Vedic cosmology). I have never met him in person, yet he had a profound influence on my life for which I am very grateful. That however does not make me close my eyes and take everything he said as infallible truth. He was a very elevated Vaishnava but certainly not the only modern Gaudiya guru worth listening to.


    He would say "Oh Krsna's philosophy is flawed". Actually his problem was with Srila Prabhupada's purport. But really, there was no flaw in the text at all, the flaw was in his brain.


    The problem is that people like you insist on "Prabhupada by definition is always right" being "Krsna's philosophy".


    A lot of things Srila Prabhupada said and wrote were simply his sincere and honest opinions - and these opinions were sometimes not based on facts or objective knowledge.


    Most people do not have a problem with SP not being an expert in every field he writes about. But everybody has a problem with his followers insisting that he was always right, even when he is obviously wrong, or when he contradicts himself like in the two quotes I posted above.


    And that is why so many people rejected our movement and it's message.

  9. Quote:

    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Modern scientists and astronomers try to explain the cosmic situation and the vastness of space, and some of them believe that all the glittering stars are different suns. From Bhagavad-gītā, however, we understand that all these stars (nakṣatras) are like the moon, in that they reflect the sunshine. They are not independent luminaries. http://prabhupadabooks.com/?g=44671 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    Compare to this quote (from a purport to SB 5.20.13):

    "From the descriptions in this verse, we can make an educated guess about the nature of the flames on the moon. Like the sun, the moon must also be full of flames because without flames there cannot be illumination. The flames on the moon, however, unlike those on the sun, must be mild and pleasing. This is our conviction. The modern theory that the moon is full of dust is not accepted in the verses of Srimad-Bhagavatam. In regard to this verse, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura says, susaspani sukomala-sikhas tesam rocisa: the kusa grass illuminates all directions, but its flames are very mild and pleasing. This gives some idea of the flames existing on the moon." http://vedabase.net/sb/5/20/13/en2


    The truth is, Prabhupada was simply giving his opinion. or as he said "making an educated guess". The Bhagavatam verse seems to say that fields of kusa grass look like (move like and have a color of) burning flames, but these 'flames' are mild and pleasing. This is similar to a 'fields of gold' simile used to describe ripe fields of barley or wheat.


    I don`t like to be one with God because that`s tantamount to commiting suicide(Prabhupada).


    If the soul never dies, how can kaivalya be a suicide?

    Because most Vaishnavas desire to serve Krsna, the thought of not being able to serve Him seems like hell to them (kaivalyam narakayate - as Prabodhananda Sarasvati wrote). It is an emotional statement, not a statement of facts.

  11. Religions which concentrate only on life after death are mostly cheating. Religion which does not concentrate on developing spirituality here and now is of unverifiable value. Cheating cults concentrate on doomsday predictions - they have been around for at least 2500 years - always waiting for some Messiah or for a major cataclism.


    Can someone explain where is the universe located? With Best Regards Om Namah Shivaya!


    The first question should be: "What is space?"


    Unless you properly understand the concept of space, you will not be able to understand much about "where" what you call universe is located. And this is not something you can uderstand from a 300 word blurb on the internet.


    The problem with your assertion is that it makes Islam into a monistic faith that ultimately proposes oneness of God and the living entity.

    For that reason, Muslim scholars reject this monistic interpretation of Islam.


    I have WAY TOO MUCH respect for the Vedic monism to equate that path with Islam. Do you see Vedic monists running around butchering people in the name of their religion? No you do not. That makes them infinitely more advanced in my book.


    Islam is it's own category in the religious sphere. There is no need to artificially lump it with other doctrines.


    No. You have it wrong.

    God is a person in Islam, only he is a person who's form and personal features cannot be known by man.

    They believe that God is a person, the male creator God.

    They just are against trying to portray his image in a picture or idol.


    You obviously don't know enough about Islam to be making such uniformed statements.


    You should ask an Islamic scholar these questions and he would have set you straight.


    Allah is certainly neither male nor female, without shape or form, cannot be seen or heard. That is what the Koran says and all muslims believe. What exactly makes Allah a person in your eyes? Is Brahmajyoti a person too?


    According to Shia branch of Islam, Allah will not be seen by his believers even after they ascend to his abode. The Sunnis believe they will see him only as white light. Does it sound like Vaishnavism to you?


    To say that Allah is a person IS a blesphemy in a Muslim world. But of course you know better what Islam REALLY is, or what Christianity REALLY is...


    In what way is saying "Islam is Vaishnavism" politically correct?


    When people speak of essential unity of all religions, such as: "we are all worshipping the same one God", "all religions are good" etc. this can be seen as political correctnes.


    It is political correctness - because you do not want to offend others by showing inferiority of their religion.


    When Srila Rupa Goswami spoke of attributes of God in his Nectar of Devotion, he has analyzed the qualities of perfected jivas, Lord Shiva. Lord Narayana, and Lord Krsna based on the Vedic shastras. No acharya has analyzed the Christian God, or the Islamic God in a similar fashion. Thus any claims that the Christian God, or the Islamic God are Lord Vishnu are more or less sentimental or political statements.

  16. Islam is really a total impersonalism, not much different from Mayavada school. I find it curious Prabhupada would consider it to be Vaishnavism:




    Srila Prabhupada: Islam is also Vaishnavism.

    Dr. Patel: Mohammedanism is not Vaishnavism.

    Srila Prabhupada: No, no. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu talked with the Pathanas (Muslims). He proved that "Yourreligion is Vaishnavism." (Moraing walk. Bombay, 17/02/74)

    Srila Prabhupada: Then Islam is Vaishnava dharma (religion) in a crude form like Christianity.

    (Room conversation. Tehran, 14/03/75)





    In his exchanges with Kazi, Mahaprabhu actually challenged the impersonalistic ideas of the Islam and did not equate that religion with Vaishnavism. He said:

    CC Ādi 17.167: "There are many mistakes and illusions in your scriptures. Their compilers, not knowing the essence of knowledge, gave orders that were against reason and argument."



    Kulpavana what r saying krisna has mentione swadharm r u denying the gita


    I am not denying Gita. Did you even read my earlier post about sudra-svadharma? Gita presents the ideal - it is up to us to strive towards that ideal, whether we are brahmanas or sudras. Yet ultimately Krsna's instruction is:


    sarva-dharman parityajya

    mam ekam saranam vraja

    aham tvam sarva-papebhyo

    moksayisyami ma sucah

  18. When Bhaktivinoda spoke of introducing daivi-varnashrama he wanted to correct the injustices of the caste system that was all around him. When Prabhupada spoke of introducing daivi-varnashrama he wanted to organize the entire human society in a manner conducive to developing Krsna consciousness. In both cases these were idealistic (perhaps even utopian) dreams that never materialized.


    In the social sense Iskcon is very much a failure, and the management model introduced by Prabhupada lags far behind just about any current 'karmi' system, producing mostly abusive leaders and mostly unhappy followers. IMO it is a good thing that varnashrama was never implemented in Iskcon as it most likely would have ended being a disaster far worse than the gurukula debacle.


    im sure that you would agree that there is a huge difference between the service that you are suggesting and the one that im speaking of ......


    Yes, as the society degrades, sudras are easily victimized and abused by other varnas. Still, this is an aberration of the ideal system presented by Krsna, just like the wealthy and exploitative brahmanas are an aberration of that system.


    One note on the smriti texts... smritis were re-edited and re-written many, many times over the centuries, some even quite recently (15th to 17th century). However, the stories and ideas they contain date back to very acient times. They always were the supplements and commentaries to the srutis, but unlike the srutis they were often re-written and expanded, which is quite evident from their language and structure. Without them it would be quite impossible to understand the srutis. The oral tradition of ancient time was eventually written down and it became smriti.


    according to the concept of swadharma a brahmin's duty is to stick to the path of righteousness and reflect on brahman along with cultivation and transmission of knowledge . a kshatriya should protect his tribe and practise fighting skills , a vaishya should engage in trade an commerece .


    but sadly a sudra should obey and serve the other three varnas . why is this injustice ?


    Is brahmana's path easy? No. Neither is sudra's path easy - each varna has it's inherent austerity. Do you think that serving others as svadharma is an injustice? Why? Actually it is a very elevated platform.


    One who thinks serving others is degrading does not understand the process of gradual elevation of human nature. Those who have no concept of serving others as part of their religious duty are actually below the level of a sudra. All varnas have serving others as the major part of their svadharma: brahmanas are servants, so are kshatriyas and vaishyas. It is just that their way of service is more specialized. Members of each varna are elevated by their proper service to others.


    Many (if not most) people in the world are not even sudras, as they have no concept of service in their mentality. They rebell against working together to serve the society in general as a just and honorable social position, instead cultivating the idea of a passive entitlement. I see it in a lot of impoverished people in relatively rich countries - they demand money from the governement just because they are poor: 'give me money because I'm a failure'. A true sudra is too proud to take money for nothing. They want an honest pay for an honest day of work - and that is respectable. Living off the rest of society by being on welfare is not respectable. Sadly, many devotees live like that - in social sense they are not even sudras.

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