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Posts posted by Kulapavana


    ...Narayana Swami started repeatedly to state how Prabhupada made mistakes. When Narayana Swami was challenged that he is wrong with his criticism of Prabhupada and he de facto agreed of having made a mistake, wisenheimers like Kula prabhu say, "disciples of Prabhupada spitting venomous public tirades".


    Narayana Maharaja is capable of making minor mistakes just like Srila Prabhupada is... that of course is natural and does not detract from their intrinsic value as Vaishnava acharyas. It is the venomous tirades of their disciples that are a problem. Look at Sampradaya Sun - it is like the sacrificial arena of Daksa, with various groups spitting their venom at each other.


    OK, now i understand.

    You are a closet ritvik despite all your online ranting against the ritvik idea.



    Yes, Prabhupada was a ritvik for Lord Balarama.



    ...yet still want to consider yourself a disciple of Prabhupada, Sridhar Maharaja and Narayana Maharaja yet you find no diksha guru on the planet that is worthy of your service.


    I am their disciple because I try to follow their teachings in my life.


    As to the service as a payment for my tuition - I do what I can. I have translated, printed, and distributed lots of Prabhupada's books. I have also translated and distributed the writings of Sridhar Maharaja and Narayana Maharaja among new devotees and made them public on the internet. Whenever possible I also try to serve other Vaishnavas, like Tripurari Maharaja in person. I am not at all averse to menial service.


    Is Srimad Bhagavatam authority enough?


    What Srimad Bhahavatam is saying is that the wives of Lord Balarama and Lord Krsna exited this world through the funeral pyres. Of course they were thinking: "my husband's body is being cremated here. let me follow..."


    It was all part of the leela.


    IMO you should go back to reading Gita, Sonic-ji. Your foundations are weak.


    Sri Guru and His Grace ch. 8

    Srila Sridhar Maharaja: "If within your society, you want a natural growth of the disciple's regard for the guru and the Absolute Truth, such room must be allowed in your constitution, if the constitution is to live at all."

    <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->


    Did you even read that sentence? Do you understand what it means? Why are you trying to force me to see Srila Prabhupada in exactly the same way you do? It is ignorant fanatics like you, and not Srila Prabhupada, that make your sanga unbearable for so many people.


    He can go on with his make believe guru who ripped of Srila Prabhupada for a millions of dollars.


    Why do you spew lies like that? Have I ever indicated that Harikesa has been any kind of authority for me after he separated himself from our sampradaya? And who made him an authority in Iskcon in the first place? Not me.


    As to my understanding of the guru tattva... it is very much based on the expositions of Srila Sridhar Maharaja, as he became my siksa guru in the late 80's, a decade before my diksa guru Harikesa fell down. I also consider Srila Narayana Maharaja to be my siksa guru on the matters of rasa tattva.


    Since the Saraswata sampradaya believes in the line of siksa gurus, I find your comments about my sisya status as totally bogus.


    Don't confuse personality cultism with being a disciple in our sampradaya.


    When I see these so called disciples of Prabhupada spitting venomous public tirades at other great Vaishnavas like Narayana Maharaja all I see is personality cultism and ignorance - they are more like the hooligan soccer fans in UK than Vaishnavas. If you want to save somebody - help these Godbrothers of yours see the light. Hare Krsna!


    There can be no injury or bleeding to the absolute form of Krishna.




    When various incarnations of the Lord fight demons they sometimes make a display of bleeding to make it more real. The Lord does not need a material body to bleed. Govardhan Hill can bleed. Lord Varaha fought Hiranyaksa for 1000 years and He was displaying bleeding from His wounds. Was Lord Varaha's body material too?

  7. "Mayavadi means one who thinks Krsna is also in maya. That is called Mayavadi. "Krsna's body is also maya." They are called Mayavadi."

    Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.26.30 Bombay, January 7, 1975


    Prabhupada: "Yes. That is the way. That is real understanding of Krsna. Hare Krsna. As soon as the Mayavadi thinks that Krsna also accepts a material body... Therefore they are called Mayavadi. They are called Mayavadi because they think Krsna's body is also maya. Therefore they are known as Mayavadis. "Morning Walk, September 30, 1975, Bombay


    Do your thing Kulapavana and challenge Srila Prabhupada like you do quite often.


    I challenge the understanding of his disciples about what he said. You find a passing reference from Prabhupada such a this:



    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Therefore it should be understood that when Lord Kṛṣṇa was apparently killed by the bow and arrow of the hunter, the Lord left His so-called material body in the material world. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


    and all of a sudden some of his disciples think that Bhagavad gita and Vaishnava siddhanta have been ammended or corrected by such a remark :rolleyes:


    just like there are some of his disciples who think they are actually asleep in the Vaikunthas because of their interpretation of what their guru said.


    The Lord could have left behind ANYTHING after He moved on to a new leela. Still that does not mean that he accepted a material body for the sake of this leela.

  9. Bhagavad Gita maintains that Krishna body is not material.



    BG 4.6: Although I am unborn and My transcendental body never deteriorates, and although I am the Lord of all living entities, I still appear in every millennium in My original transcendental form.


    BG 7.24: Unintelligent men, who do not know Me perfectly, think that I, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, was impersonal before and have now assumed this personality. Due to their small knowledge, they do not know My higher nature, which is imperishable and supreme.


    BG 7.25: I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am covered by My internal potency, and therefore they do not know that I am unborn and infallible.


    BG 9.11: Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature as the Supreme Lord of all that be.



  10. <CENTER>TEXT 54




    yas tv indragopam athavendram aho sva-karma-


    bandhanurupa-phala-bhajanam atanoti


    karmani nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhajam


    govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami



    </CENTER>yah--He who (Govinda); tu--but; indra-gopam--to the small red insect called indragopa; atha va--or even; indram--to Indra, king of heaven; aho--oh; sva-karma--of one's own fruitive activities; bandha--bondage; anurupa--according to; phala--of reactions; bhajanam--enjoying or suffering; atanoti--bestows; karmani--all fruitive activities and their reactions; nirdahati--destroys; kintu--but; ca--also; bhakti-bhajam--of persons engaged in devotional service; govindam--Govinda; adi-purusam--the original person; tam--Him; aham--I; bhajami--worship.



    </CENTER>I adore the primeval Lord Govinda, who burns up to their roots all fruitive activities of those who are imbued with devotion and impartially ordains for each the due enjoyment of the fruits of one's activities, of all those who walk in the path of work, in accordance with the chain of their previously performed works, no less in the case of the tiny insect that bears the name of indragopa than in that of Indra, king of the devas.


    Kulapavana loses credibility in my mind because he refuses to accept another spiritual master in light of the fact that his diksha guru was unfit for the position. He criticizes even Srila Prabhupada and yet presumes to somehow or other be cultivating and propagating Krishna consciousness.



    There is no need for me to take diksa again. You just understand diksa differently than I do. And I have accepted several persons as my siksa gurus since Harikesa left the fold of Gaudiya sampradaya to pursue his own path. You know little of my heart.


    As to being critical towards Srila Prabhupada: yes, I don not believe he was always right, but I have a very deep apreciation and gratitude for him. In most books that is not even remotely close to Vaishnava aparadha ar guru ninda.


    You should worry about your own salvation and let me worry about mine.


    It's a damn shame these people have to whine about their hardships in ISKCON.


    Yes, they should be happy for being screwed over by the leaders of this movement and subjected to all kinds of inhumane treatment. Should the abused women and kids be happy too? Yey! I only got raped once! I should have been raped 10 times! My child has been subjected to only 3 years of nightmares in the Danudhar's gurukula! what a blessing! He should have suffered like that for 30 years... lucky him... :rolleyes:


    Very few people complain about plain austerities, and those who are can be called whiners. It is the ABUSE that is the issue here.


    I used the scripturally backed fact of life that when a devotee does actually suffer, and Big King Kulapavana wasn't there to prevent it, that it was supposed to be 10x worse.



    I did not see the scriptural backing for that saying, but that is a different matter.


    As to the merit of the conversation: devotees under my care were never cheated or mistreated. I did not demand from others what I did not expect to give myself.


    You ask: "Who was suggesting that the poor leadership be absolved responsibility?"


    Not me. Leaders must be held responsible for what happens on their watch. All the way to the top.


    Very good sadhana. Right. When you are done with your tour of the Colon Highway, take the first exit for reality, and come on up to the surface and see what you've been missing.


    Of course you, sitting in your closet and blessed with divine vision, know much better about the quailty of their sadhana... :rolleyes:


    And when you say: "Of course these folks are very rude, condescending, and socially thoughtless in their selfishness" I thought you were describing your own ex-hippie generation of devotees, responsible for all the nasty things that happened in our movement. This is the way I remember most of them.


    Like I said: we judge things (including diksa) by the results.


    IThe nature of the guna and karma you brought to the table was different than others. Variety is present always. If someone told you a girl was a boy, you didn't say to yourself, "well Srila Prabhupada appointed this leader so a girl must be a boy."


    But you blame Srila Prabhupada for the fact that another person didn't have your common sense? Is that a way to encourage them to take personal accountability for their brainlessness? How will they ever get to be as savvy as you if you blame their brainlessness on someone else? Or would you rather them stay little naive mushrooms in the dark for you to pick at will for your own purposes?


    Of course in your paranoia you see me blaming Prabhupada for lack of common sense among rank and file devotees :rolleyes:


    I was merely pointing out the reason many devotees trusted the leaders Prabhupada appointed: the very fact of them being placed in these positions by their guru. Of the 4 varnas 2 are very trusting: brahmanas and sudras.


    Of course these devotees were often naive to the extreme. But that does not remove the responsibilities of Iskcon authorities for the abuses that took place on their watch. That is why I quoted the story of Arjuna's promise to the brahmana. If you are a king, you are partially responsible for both the good and the bad things that take place in your kingdom.


    The kings in Dvaraka did not try to appease the brahmana who lost his children by saying:


    "did you miss that part of the ABC's of using suffering to our advantage and see that it is Krsna's mercy and whatever level of suffering we endure is actually minimized by him because it was supposed to be 10x worse?"


    They were kshatriyas, not crafty liars trying to excuse their own laziness and impotence by misapplying philosophical concepts. They knew it was their duty to protect their citizens.

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